Every single story ever told about this game is just "Players are walking down the street, then they get raped and murdered, the end".
Look, the warhammer setting is just something that attract the lowest common demoninator who cant flock to anything else because those ips are virtually dead and or stagnant.
>>97054853>doesnt like streets>doesnt like waling>doesnt like rape>doesnt like murder>doesnt like endingsdo you even like fun at all?
>>97054861I like games that last longer than five minutes.
>>97054853I only played 4e. It's a solid d100 system with some crunch but more intuitive than you'd assume. Leveling up in your job by leveling up allowed stats and switching them to change other stats is a nice way to keep you grinding forever with small achievable goals.
>>97054879What do you actually do in the game?
>>97054853No good DM is going to kill off the players that quickly.
>>97054853No they aren't
>>97054917>What do you actually do in the game?Adventures and stuff.WHFRP has a rather large scale of play. You typically start out as a group of nobodies getting caught up in a some silly shenanigans, but can end up saving the Empire in a chaos invasion. But you can just stay in the shenanigans league if you want, as your PC never really gets *that* much more powerful than a really strong and really talented guy. The system is relatively lethal for all involved - even the BBEG can typically go down from one good hit, as they too are usually just a really strong or talented guy.There's a lot of detail given over to living in the Old World, from various exchange rates to markets and pricing of goods and diseases you can catch and inter-town rivalries and enmities and secrets and forgotten knowledge.I think the game typically attracts people who played the tabletop battle game first, but I've run it for total newbs and they've enjoyed the setting for what it was.
>>97055560>but I've run it for total newbs and they've enjoyed the setting for what it was.It helps that the RP presents the setting a bit less grimderp. Empire citizens are basically just people, and the cities are no more filthy and the officials no more corrupt than IRL. Just don't go into the sewers.
>>97055588There's a weird thing where people assume that Fantasy is literally just 40k in Tolkien times. The setting is actually kind of hopeful, at least if you go by 2e canon (and you should.) It's why it's more interesting to me as a setting than 40k. In 40k, basically nothing you can do matters, but you could conceivably make positive change in the Old World.
>>97055597>In 40k, basically nothing you can do matters, but you could conceivably make positive change in the Old World.Now the two have ironically switched. 40K has moved to being pessimistic but Nobledark, even if grimdark/grimderp still kicks in.Old World ironically has a more hopeful tone in most of its lore, even though its world clearly doesn't have hope.
>>97054917you have a job, you try to avoid mutants and cultists that fucke over your job.I believe the standard sandbox play is keeping a merchant business while the world is going to hell, at least that's part 2 of The Enemy Within.
>>97055646We usually end up playing Dark Heresy but in Old World (working for mysterious powerful benefactors), but sometimes we have let our own worst instincts propel a totally open-world story forward.
>>97054853>he doesn't understand and cannot execute blackadder-y gallow humorWhat is it, are you a subhuman that can only enjoy marvel quips and dude weed lmao jokes? Or are you a pole minderaped by "autumn stories" games from your compatriot?
>>97056059>blackadder-y gallow humorHow often does anyone actually play like that rather than playing a bitchy 2007 deviantart angstfest?
>>97056085By being able to process self-deprecating humor stemming from your own and personal, very human experience and not wrapping everything in 10.000 layers of irony and using humor in a disingenuous way to manipulate your standing or vehiculate any message. In short stop being a posturing retard.
>>97056111Do this and the tone of your table will adjust accordingly
>>97056111NTA but you're just killing my interest in this setting more than I thought I could
>>97056117It's always a good thing to separate the wheat from the chaff, gtfo being a spiritual zoomer i guess.
>>97056085>How often does anyone actually play like thatMe. I play like that. But I've been playing since 1st ed so it's kind of ingrained at this point.British humour is lost on the yank.
>>97056117>killing my interest in this settingWhat do you want from the setting? WHFRP is a bit absurdist, a bit tongue in cheek, a bit gallows, and a bit larrakinism, but that doesn't exclude more serious tones from being present or playable. There's very much a "don't take it too seriously, chum" right up until the very moment you go "oh cripes, we better take this seriously or we're fucked" sort of back and forth.
>>97056191>WHFRP is a bit absurdist, a bit tongue in cheek, a bit gallows, and a bit larrakinism, but that doesn't exclude more serious tones from being present or playable.This. The comparison to Blackadder is a good one. Everything is silly and winking at the camera but also seriously this Nurgle cult is trying to start a plague that will kill thousands if we don't stop them.
Dear Diary,Yesterday OP was a retard AND a faggot
>>97054853>Every single story ever told about this game is just "Players are walking down the street, then they get raped and murdered, the end".Try playing it? Because that really isn't the case, outside of Poland treating it like a misery-simulator (which is a GM problem).
>>97056207>Everything is silly and winking at the camera but also seriouslyWe'd played an adventure one time whereby there was a lot happening around and outside of us, but we hadn't really dipped our toes in yet (much to the chagrin of the GM). What began as a fairly simple find a missing person quest took an absolute turn for the worse when the party stumbled upon a nascent vampire, which resulted in a brave but foolish last stand by one of our PCs who, through complete luck, tanked or dodged every attack from the monster before setting off a recently acquired bomb, killing themselves and the monster in the process. Subsequently the adventure sprawled into a vampiric infestation which had been totally ignored cause we were too busy doing shenanigans to notice.
>>97056297>Subsequently the adventure sprawled into a vampiric infestation which had been totally ignored cause we were too busy doing shenanigans to notice.Sounds like medieval Shaun of the Dead.
>>97054853This isn't true.
>>97054853I've got a group I've played in for several adventures which included:A caravan trip to secure a bride and do politicing across The EmpireA doomed expedition to Lustria (south america)A band of thieves bumbling through the Empire's capitalPeople kidnapped by Skaven trying to escapeA group hired / part of a noble house trying to stop its free fall into total ruin
>>97054853to enjoy the warhammer fantasy universe
>>97056663What was even more excellent was that one PC was a Helsing-esque Vampire Hunter (more of a scholar than a fighter), who had thus far insisted all campaign that vampires HAD to be behind whatever was going on. It became such a joke that even simple mishaps, such as a dropped pastry or being caught in a sudden downpour was jokingly blamed on vampires by the rest of the party (very much a "thanks, Obama" moment).He was of course eventually vindicated, only to discover that his knowledge of Vampires was woefully out of practice with the reality of vampires.
>>97056111You failed to understand the question.
>>97054853It's actually incredibly hard to kill people in 4e because of all the bullshit "spend this point of whatever to not die" mechanics
>>97061168FWIW I tend to ignore Fate Points when it comes to 4e. I think back in 2e is was fair enough as the system was even more lethal, but in 4e there's way more opportunities to avoid an untimely death. If you die in 4e, it is 90% your fault imo.
>>97061307Wasn't 2e the edition where attempting to mount a horse was extremely likely to kill the average character?
>>97061695I don't recall so? There's an official mounted combat supplement but it doesn't mention that.I imagine like anything d100, a total failure (001) usually resulted in something lethal or ludicrous occurring for the failing party.>https://grognard.org.uk/Authors/jadrax/Getting%20the%20Trots%201-1.pdf
>>97055597>The setting is actually kind of hopeful, at least if you go by 2e canon (and you should.)I don't see this at all. Fantasy takes place on a doomed world that's eventually going to fall to Chaos. Could be the next day in the setting or in a thousand years, but it's constantly creeping up on it.In comparison, 40k has always been pretty stagnant on the grand scale. Things get worse here and there, rarely better, but that goes on basically until forever, and Chaos just wants to keep the party going. The only maybe humanity-extinguishing threat were the Tyranids, and even then, that was a big maybe.
>>97062282The >Chaos is definitely going to win!Lore is fucking stupid and easy to ignore, and not as prevalent in 2e as it was in 1e (and even in 1e, the passage that people always quote is in an adventure.)The honest truth is that Chaos just got absolutely fuckstomped in the Storm, the nations of the old world proved that if they work together they can accomplish great things, and the Storm had a hundred years war/black plague style side effect of wiping the slate and upsetting the old orders, allowing the possibility of newer, better orders to take their place. It's shown, time and time again, that Chaos is less dangerous than the stupid human institutions that allow chaos to thrive. Will the rift eventually fuck everyone up? Probably eventually, but that's more or less the heat death of the sun. It's possible for individuals to make the Empire better, now, which is a lot more hopeful than 40k, where the institutions are so corrupt at their core, and at such a scale, that no meaningful change can ever really be made.
>>97062313>Lore is fucking stupid and easy to ignoreOh so your take all along was "Actually my fanon version of the setting is hopeful". Now I see.
>>97054853People like the setting and for some retarded reason think missing an attack and failing a task constantly while being killed easily means the game is hard when it's just horribly designed.
>>97062313anon back in the setting it was so clear that chaos was in its right to win before the rpg was even created
>>97062313>Will the rift eventually fuck everyone up? Probably eventually, but that's more or less the heat death of the sunThe setting isn't even 20,000 years old and Chaos is already a few good days away from winning, anon. It's more like saying someday we're going to run out of natural oil and coal.
>>97062328>>97062331So we're just going to ignore that Chaos was just absolutely fucked during the storm of chaos?
>>97062318>I'm going to completely ignore the majority of your post to focus on one thing I disagree with!K. Are you polish?
>>97062346Didn’t gw? Even if we ignore that when you see the setting from a top up view its fucking retarded and makes you question how it’s not cannibalized by one thing or the other already. Then you realize it’s a setting to push toys and you go with that.
>>97062346>So we're just going to ignore that Chaos was just absolutely fucked during the storm of chaos?How is that being ignored, exactly?
>>97062348Nah. I'm just saying your headcanon is hopeful not that the actual canon is lol.
>>97054853I don't know.I already am use- and hopeless. I don't see why my brief escapism should be the same.
>>97062313>It's possible for individuals to make the Empire betterI think that's the more important take-away, regardless of anyone's opinion on whether or not Chaos is inevitable. The Old World works because small groups of motivated peoples can have a massive impact on the outcome of events, hence the Players feel they have a say/agency in the setting.I've played games centered around the End Times/Storm of Chaos on at least 3 occasions (twice in 2e and once in 4e), and it's always been a blast seeing how different groups and GMs handle such cataclysmic events.There's nothing stopping you/your group from resetting to an earlier time period, or even skipping ahead (which we've also done once before, canonizing our own Storm of Chaos result and moving the timeline up about 50 years).
>>97054866fuck you lol
>>97054853Sounds like some D&D player just walked into a combat encounter he was meant to side step and got his ass handed to him. Then got confused when there was more to do than just walking between combat encounters.
>>97062318WFRP Lore is now black women, female dwarfs, female Bretonnian Knights a plenty. it is not better, but much worse than it once was.
>>97062362Storm of Chaos was rectonned and changed to the End Times.
>>97055597>at least if you go by 2e canon (and you should.)I am one of the newbs, having only played 2e for one adventure with what I'm told was a vastly inflated XP rate so there could be actual skill progression in a bi-weekly game. All I know is that 2e and 4e are the best standards, and everyone hates End Times because the writing was an ass excuse to toss out the setting in spite of enough audience investment for Storm of Chaos. Also that it's surprisingly fun to play Noblebright follower of Shallya, not an actual acolyte but just someone that's in the faith, and push the party into actually making things better for people.What's different about 4, the tone of the lore?
>>97068422Both, it's a decade before Storm of chaos, so everyone is thinking chaos is non existant, and the enemy Within campaign basically have you fight for the status quo we all know instead of doing actual major change in the Empire (as it was the case in the first editon of that campaign)Personally, I ran 2nd before going to 4th, so I simply continued the time line instead of doing a jump back in time for no reason, at least the religious and political tensions have more logic than just 'Sigmar bad, Ulric good,' 'No, Sigmar good, Ulric bad!' idiocies that we have now.also, mordern times oblige, every woman you meet is the best, every man is an idiot.
>>97068422>in spite of enough audience investment for Storm of ChaosBig slap in the face for enjoyers of the battle game. Chaos got its shit pushed in during the global campaign, so rather than accept it and write lore around those results, GW just did an asspull and retconned it all so their precious per-conditioned committee-approved story didn't get out of whack.They COULD have gone with Chaos getting owned and a new Age of Man expanding and conquering the northern lands whilst the forces of chaos are in full retreat, maybe even jumping into portals to end up in weird places in the Old World. Or any number of smart and fun and interesting story angles. But no. They had to be fucking children about it.
>>97068483>everyone is thinking chaos is non existantThat tracks. We went through Middenheim just trying to stop some Beastmen and the singular Dark Elf Witch that prodded them. Chaos wasn't even an aspect aside from Slaaneshi symbols, accidentally running into Skaven (which definitely don't exist) while plunging an abandoned mine for leftover ores for the Dwarf to do something with, and the Dark Elf's plan to use her disguise as the count's wife to divert us to a plague-cult to either kill us or the competition. Ended up winning in part due to making good with a Priest of Moor who then vouched for us with the count.>every woman you meet is the best, every man is an idiotThis was like half-true for my game, but only because my character was a woman leading a party ranging from guys with lax moral codes, to wizard scum waiting for a chance. Shallyan ladies were based simply for their healing prowess, so clear bias there, but the BBEG, party wizard, wizard's fey tutor, and various nobles were all plainly awful women. The men definitely needed some guidance or monetary persuasion to help out, but could function independently.>>97068595>Age of Man expanding and conqueringSlightly sad story: I wanted my PC's epilogue to continue the party's new influence. Earn further trust by killing the exposed Nurglites and delivering a salvaged property to Averland's count. Presuming success, then petition for an expedition through Black Fire Pass to establish an Empire-aligned hold in the Border Princes. From there, push back the greenskins to secure a route to Karaz-a-Karak, possibly with Dwarf help, then with trade let the fledgling county grow. With her Badlander motives of wanting to prove anyone can earn renown no matter their origin, she'd have a great example to offer as a rallying cry for the disillusioned to join in the risk for opportunity.The table outright told me my PC's plans would be a waste of effort. Maybe, but she'd still think the efforts should be made.
>>97068763>The table outright told me my PC's plans would be a waste of effort. Maybe, but she'd still think the efforts should be made.That sucks, bro. Those are some great ideas to build out. I was lucky that my old group were always into nation-building ventures, hence we played a lot of Rogue Trader, and most of our fantasy games were about trading caravans, founding towns, and claiming lost settlements for ourselves.We're Barons at heart.
>>97068769Thanks Anon, you're a real homie. There really is something special about carving out a zone of influence for your characters to affect the surrounding world, be it a small country or even just a stronghold, even more so if the setting is some kind of awful and it cultivates a hope of something better. The wizard craves a tower, the warrior craves a castle, the priest craves a temple. It's just a natural progression to go from doing difficult things by yourselves to (re)establish something, to using that establishment to inspire others to do difficult things.Or at least inspire them to do normal things and give their resources and favor to you. By all rights we had the evidence to depose a burgermeister for tax embezzlement and accepting Skaven bribes, but instead we leveraged his pride to take administrative credit for our saving the town from his complicity, and use the relief as an opportunity to show the leadership how else he can exceed the Empire's good standards by helping the town heal. Scare him straight with a couple-dozen "rat-beastmen" corpses, and only ask for a letter where he says we're good and skilled people he had discovered, tested, and trusts will be of good use to his liege. As much fun as it would be to build up the town ourselves, we had a bodysnatching elf to catch before problems in Middenland could take root and spread to the rest of the Empire, and with it much more opportunity to bring prosperity.
These threads feel like the most artificial outrage.If another "why is 4e WFRP bad" thread finally dies, there will be another one.
>>97054853Weird. In 4e, it's piss-easy to make your character an indestructible murder machine from the word go. Every game I've been in has been a depressing cakewalk, although no one who plays it actually seems to understand the rules.Anyway, I'm pretty sure you're lying.
>>97061695No, but is the game where no horse listed in the game is strong enough to carry a rider, and where all horses can jump six meters into the air.
>>97062313>that's more or less the heat death of the sun.This is always the case, you fucking retard. I don't even understand what is wrong with you people who can't enjoy an adventure in a setting unless you personally get to whip the entire universe into submission with your imaginary ten foot cock.
>>97070388If you just ignore the shit-flinging and -eating retards (that includes OP), there's good stuff in here
>>97061695There are no rules governing mounting a horse in base WFRP 2e.
>>97071071Where in my post did I say anything about "personally whipping the entire universe with my ten foot cock?" Why do you have to make up something to be mad about? This false dichotomy of "if it isn't an absolutely hopeless mudcore polish grind then obviously you just want superheroes!" is so fucking exhausting. I want characters who struggle against evil and, while it is hard, they have the possibility of success. Warhammer Fantasy does a good job of delivering that, unless you're a fucking shithead who goes "UHGM ACKTUALLY, SOMEDAY IN THE FUTURE CHAOS IS GOING TO WIN SO NOTHING YOU DID MATTERS AND ALSO YOU ARE A FAG."
>>97054853The lethality rate is a bit overstated, even for the earlier editions, but especially for the latest one. Generally, you're just trying to get by in whatever corner of the Empire, then you run into your first Chaos cultist/goblin/skaven, and you spend the rest of the campaign trying to survive and stay on top of things as the situation rapidly spirals south from there. Sort of like a fantasy-based horror game.
>>97068595>Big slap in the face for enjoyers of the battle game. Chaos got its shit pushed in during the global campaign, so rather than accept it and write lore around those results, GW just did an asspull and retconned it all so their precious per-conditioned committee-approved story didn't get out of whack.>They COULD have gone with Chaos getting owned and a new Age of Man expanding and conquering the northern lands whilst the forces of chaos are in full retreatDon't be a retard. You have no idea about the Storm of Chaos. From the very beginning we were told that Archaon was going to get to Middenheim, his horde was supposed to be unstoppable. All the battling before it reached the Middenheim phase was supposed to be delaying actions that would determine in what state the attackers and defenders would be in for the Siege of Middenheim. GW played the campaign entirely straight.
>>97073939>GW played the campaign entirely straight.lollmao, even>Don't be a retard. You have no idea about the Storm of ChaosNigga, I was there.
>>97074031>Nigga, I was there.I doubt it. If you were you'd have read the campaign primer. >Each battlefield has two or more possible victory conditions that will cause it to fall. The success of the Chaos advance on Middenheim is dependent on which of these conditions is met at each location and how quickly. The quality of each victory and the speed with which it is achieved will eventually determine how Chaos begins its final assault on the City of the White Wolf.>These conditions are:>Timed. To keep the narrative flowing, certain locations will fall on certain dates if they have not fallen already to open up new battlefields or storylines. Reaching this condition will garner little advantage for the Chaos hordes.>Bloodbath. The battlefield may be won simply by the massive number of battles that take place. This condition is reached based upon the total results posted at the location, wins or losses. Thus, sometimes, it may be more effective not to fight somewhere! Of course, Defenders will have to fight to a certain extent to keep Chaos from having a Total Victory. Nobody said it would be simple! While these conditions mean that the locations will eventually fall, a Bloodbath victory takes time to achieve and will therefore limit Chaos' advantage during the assault on Middenheim.>Weight of Numbers. The number of Chaos victories that are posted to a location can take the battlefield. Defenders' results are not deducted from the Chaos value – this condition depends solely on Chaos wins. Weight of Numbers is worth more to Chaos than a Bloodbath but not as much as a Total Victory result.>Total Victory. If Chaos achieves a required win/loss percentage for a certain amount of time or after the battlefield has been active for a certain number of days, they have stormed the battlefield and swept all before them. A Total Victory earns Chaos great advantages during the final days of the campaign.
What exactly is the point of DnD?Every single story ever told about this game is just "Players are walking through the dungeon, they natty 20, fuck the dragon and get rug pulled by the DM when they cast Wish, the end".
>>97074079Bro, never said GW didn't have a pre-determined outcome. Literally said that here >>97068595.My gripe is that they didn't accept the results given to them and write something else to suit those results, rather than push forward with their pre-set narrative (which makes zero sense based on the results of the campaign).
>>97074162>My gripe is that they didn't accept the results given to themThey did though.They told you the narrative, they told you how it was going to work, and it all played out as they said. The first phase of the campaign was Archaon's horde inevitably grinding it's way through to Middenheim. This happened. But because the defenders did better the attakcers went into the second phase without anything much to show for it. The attackers then proceeded to lose.
>>97061695>>97071220Most I can find is Stand/Mount is listed as a half-action on page 127. No Ride check required.>>97071061If you're looking at the optional encumbrance rules on page 103, you'll find it says:>Dray animals, such as horses, can handle larger loads and may handle encumbrance values equal to their Strength Characteristic x 30.Which puts even ponies with their 35 STR at 1,050 encumbrance before they lose 1 movement per 50 encumbrance, and a 45 STR Destrier at 1,350. A character's encumbrance value is (STR + TOU) x 10, which given how character creation caps at 40 and even advanced careers cap out at +30% for total advances, it'd take deliberately building to be a Radahn meatball of 70STR/70TOU across a huge campaign to reach a 1400 required to slow a Destrier from 8 movement to 7. This is presumably following the precedent set by storage items such as sacks, backpacks, coinpurses, and saddlebags allow a certain amount of encumbrance storage to be substituted in a smaller encumbrance item (they'd otherwise be useless items if they just added more weight without making it easier to transport), that the rider's worn and carried items are included in that number.
>>97068595>They COULD have gone with Chaos getting owned and a new Age of Man expanding and conquering the northern lands whilst the forces of chaos are in full retreatyeah sure just colonize the Chaos Wastes bro what's the worst that could happen? :)
>>97074187killing Valten like a bitch was lame and reeked of saltiness, not gonna lie
>>97055597There's a lot of truth to what you say, but 2e has some of the worst examples of grimderp in the entire GW catalog in many of it's source books. And a bizarre obsession with feces.
>>97074362>yeah sure just colonize the Chaos Wastes bro what's the worst that could happen? :)Well, maybe just colonising the Troll Country and Norsca and pushing chaos into the wastes. Just saying they could have done something interesting with the results they were given, but they didn't.
>>97062313It's retarded but so is all of the Warhammer setting to begin with. You could write out the chaos always winzorz shit or write out chaos entirely from the setting, but there are so many other things that are just as retarded.IMO the setting is only good as a sandbox fantasy war game ala Total Warhammer that you don't think about, because if taken seriously as a setting to do RPGs in it collapses almost instantly under the weight of its own stupidity. Take the system, preferably 2e because all the other editions are hot ass, and make your own world. A 12 year old with brain damage could write better than the average Black Library "pro".
>>97074562>And a bizarre obsession with feces.Robert "The Scatman" Schwalb is to thank for that
>>97074981Did he write for 40k too? Especially the Imperial Fists.
>>97054853Maybe try not getting raped and murdered
Speaking of WFRP, are the WHFB codices (especially the ones from 6th and 7th edition) a good source of lore for playing the ttrpg?
>>97075222Yes, but honestly all the lore you need is in the 2nd rulebook and source books.
>>97075231Thanks. Which source books would you recommend? Is there anything from 4e worth reading, lore wise?
>>97074372Valten didn't die.There's a short piece of fiction where Luthor Huss talks to Valten while he's fishing (?) and Valten says he doesn't want to be the Emperor, he wants to be a normal person.The Electors are worried that Valten is going to cause a civil war when his followers demand that, as Sigmar reborn, he's made Emperor. Boris Todbringer asks Karl Franz for 24 hours to solve the problem.Less than 24 hours later, Luthor Huss walks into Valten's room and discovers him dead. He goes to get help but when they return the body is gone and the only evidence is a skaven dagger.Luthor Huss is the only person to see the body.The civil war issue is resolved and Luthor Huss goes on to preach that if the Empire needs him again, Valten will return.>>97075236Most of the 4e stuff is worth reading. It depends on what you're interested in. Despite the edition war shit, most of it is written by the same freelancers who worked on 2e. Even 1e.
>>97054853I really really like over the top mudcore grimderp
>>97075222Mostly. Though the WHFB books mostly focus on how the given army you're reading about is the best and coolest. The WFRP books do a lot of really cool world building and are worth reading on their own for that alone.
>>97074079there's so much bullshit circulating around the internet about these campaigns that's demonstrably false. Like on 1d4chan it says they only announced the results of the eye of terror campaign in the battlefleet gothic magazine but they did it in warhammer monthly as well.
>>97083542To be fair it usually comes up in arguments about chaoswanking, and to counter with>erm actually the chaoswanking WAS intentional and already thereisn't the flex you think it is. Yeah, you're correct, but you're not helping your case. The whole point is they artificially propped up because GW wanted to make a new IP all the way back then. You can look up what internal writers said to confirm that. Whether it's because they had hardons for Chaos or if it's because it deprived them of a good excuse to end the setting without pissing off fans is up for debate, but they WERE upset at the results and that's why 8e was such a halfassed and rushed edition. By then interest in WFB died out enough that they figured no one would care if they killed it, or they didn't care that anyone would care.
>>97054853Here, grab a (You)
