Oh, a new thread

What are your thoughts about the water aspects anima powers? Would you change it? If yes, to what?

>>97056831
Out of everything you mentioned I think the curse stuff is the most concerning mainly because of how freeform it is. Overwhelming reduction is cool but not necessarily a unbeatable. The extra initiative track thing is the real mystery because until we know how strong an Infernal alpha strike is, it’s hard to say how much of a problem that presents. I guess it’s a font of gambits at the least?

>>97059593
Cautiously hopeful. I came appalled by the concepts that were lost and expecting literal SJW Exalted after Pillars and Crucible. I am very relieved the devs seem to have taken to heart some of the biggest criticisms over the years, and drastically walked back on the “Infernal humanism” billed at the start of development. Right now Devil-Bodies are fun to play with, the focus on indulgence and all-consuming revenge is a welcome relief from the righteous revolution spiel floated earlier, Hell is cool, the Yozis/demons are recognisable, there seem to be hints of Infernals evolving into something over time even if it’s not Devil-Tigers, and for all intents and purposes Infernals are in fact the Chosen of the Yozis. ALL the Yozis. The new iconic Infernal designs are boring compared to the old ones, but the old ones weren’t exactly high art (except for CRAB MUMMY who was perfect in every way) anyway.

Things could be worse, relative to what they were advertised as. Still on the fence about Infernals being able to use SMAs or resonating with orichalcum. It’s a W, but it feels like one predicated on the lingering Green Solar theming from the start of development.

One more important thing: I like that they finally shut up with all that “Ancient” faffing around and finally just canonised Yozis being called Primordials before their imprisonment.

>>97059882
Agreed. The early 3e unwillingness to just name things they knew were going to be canon eventually sucked

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>>97059593
>How hype are you for Infernals?
Meh. Tbh I never was big fan of them. I kinda like them in Exalted versus World of Darkness.

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>>97060213
>Exalted versus World of Darkness
lol

>>97059593
i'll be more hype when i see the manuscripts
>>97059617
the 3e ones?
>3m for 1 noncharm success on disengage/withdraw/resist grapple roll
decent, can get pricey if you need more than 1
>permanent water breathing and no penalties when submerged
very nice, opens up lots of tricks for them
>5m/free at bonfire, ignore -3 penalty for rushing/disengaging on difficult terrain & can use move action on water surface as if land
strong effects, but unfortunately wed together. 5m is pricey for both effects alone, and bonfire. Sure you only have to do it 4 times to get it free with bonfire but that presents it's own problems

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>i'll be more hype when i see the manuscripts
You can pay and get access to them right now

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>>97060266
Yep big agree. When you do that, be sure to post them here for us.

>>97059818
I don't recall that ever really framed as "Infernal humanism". I thought it was just the Yozis wanting to speedrun the bloody revolutions of Creation to laugh at the Exalted continuing to usurp each other. Forever.

>>97060944
I vividly remember that was the angle explicitly being sold, but it was right at the start-shortly after the very first preview dropped. Nonetheless I saw no evidence it would be downplayed until now.

>it was just the Yozis wanting to speedrun the bloody revolutions of Creation to laugh at the Exalted continuing to usurp each other
That was half of it, but originally the idea of Infernals being very direct continuations of the worst legacies of the First Age was being emphasised. As someone who has absolutely hated the idea of Infernals primarily being Green Solars from the moment it was proposed as a good thing, I much prefer 3e’s all-consuming ceaseless vengeance approach to either that or the fucking SJW Penumbra preview I still can’t believe they thought anyone outside their fancord would like.

>>97061053
>That was half of it...

One wonders how the other half of it could add up to some kind of humanist message with that kind of component.

> but originally the idea of Infernals being very direct continuations of the worst legacies of the First Age was being emphasised. As someone who has absolutely hated the idea of Infernals primarily being Green Solars from the moment it was proposed as a good thing,

I parsed that as the Infernals continuing to be autocratic assholes using their powers to wreck shit with zero regard for the consequences. They wouldn't be Green Solars on account of this, since they would be heedlessly doing it with the powers of hell, not pure arete and golden glows.

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>>97059593
>TQ
Weirdly, not at all. I guess all the reveals from before had poisoned the well for me. I've full confidence that it'll be an order of magnitude better than 2e in both mechanics and lore, yet I can't conjure up the will to care or desire to read it,

>>97059818
>(except for CRAB MUMMY who was perfect in every way)
He popped up in the BakerKit. Guess he's still cannon. Cearr, too.

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>>97061053
>SJW Penumbra preview I still can’t believe they thought anyone outside their fancord would like.
QRD on this?

>>97055838

Oblivion or the wyld destroying creation are exactly as big as problems bro.

And you don't see the value of grafting psychological factoids of an insane wounded world-being onto yourself? It meant every infernal had to decide exactly what tweaks they were willing to make to their own mind and soul for the power they needed to achieve their goals.

Are they gonna ditch the Lady Gaga getup for Sulumor and make her dress like an actual nun or are they gonna put her in a hijab or something? Place your bets, gentlemen.

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>>97061053
I don't see too much of a difference between 3e and Essence's takes on Infernals. The Castes are largely selected for the exact same criteria, and the summation for them in Essence (pic related) is largely the same as what 3e is working with. Their powers in Essence's core book are mostly spiteful and cruel. I don't know what caused such nail-biting, honestly; seeing the word "revolutionary" a few times?

>>97061679
Maybe they'll have her in another Gaga getup, like the meat dress (locust dress?) or the red lace with the crown.

How hard is it for a Raksha to pass for a normal person if for whatever reason it sees fit to pretend at normalcy?

>>97061745
Fairly easy. They have access to disguise magic on par with the Exalted.

>>97061713

I mean the old setup is either you're working slowly on their release or you wander off to do your own thing, confident that they can't come after you.

This time around the main difference is they've got no constructive goal to put you towards, which makes plating a loyalist infernal (not that most pcs would, but still) a bit pointless.

My current campaign we're a "subtle rebellion" that's been networked by an infinitely less gross homebrew take on Lillun, where we're playing along for now to keep access to hell's resources whilst pursuing our personal goals as exalted, but keeping an eye on them and planning to sabotage the reclamation if it looks like it's actually going to work. Plus the added complication of the yozi charms and demon allies making us somewhat sympathetic to the suffering of the defeated even if we don't want them to run wild on the mortals and gods.

And well, that wouldn't really work in 3e. The fuck would we be playing along with?

>>97061800
The politicking of individual demons? Hell is only united against Creation. If you go to visit there, everyone is going to want your ear.

>>97061800
Your set-up is that you pursue your revenge. The Yozis in 3e, unlike the Deathlords, don't give orders. Their desire is that you take all their gifts, go back into Creation, and wreak havoc with them chasing your own vendetta because they are such miserable pieces of shit that this kind of vicarious lashing out is the only thing that makes them feel good.

>>97061587
>Oblivion or the wyld destroying creation are exactly as big as problems bro
Neither of which were nearly as imminently dangerous as the reclamation. Those things were fairly stalemated in the snapshot of time we were given.
>And you don't see the value of grafting psychological factoids of an insane wounded world-being onto yourself?
No. I want my character to be about my character.

Also if the reclamation happens everywhere is fucked all at the same time, unlike the advance of Oblivion or the Wyld which happens in small pieces. It's a story that either engulfs everything or it's not involved at all.

>>97061885
>the Wyld which happens in small pieces
The balorian crusade nearly unmade the world

>>97061839
>Neither of which were nearly as imminently dangerous as the reclamation. Those things were fairly stalemated in the snapshot of time we were given.

Eh so is the reclamation, every route to it is extremely long term unless you directly use the insane "marry the scarlet empress for access to her island then hammer my fetich into the elemental pole" plot. Even then, that one only releases TED who's the easiest Yozi to deal with (his perfect defence doesn't fucking work against Solars you can just raid boss the fucker) and a storyteller could come up with an equal Deathlord or Raksha immediate threat if they wanted.

The real point of the creation setting is that there's a fuckton of fires to run around putting out in the current time of upheaval, and you aren't the only exalted trying to deal with things. If your storyteller is competent then you need to deal with local shit for a good while until you gain a lot of power, at which point the campaign endgame will probably be putting out one of those major fires because ain't nobody got the time to keep playing until they've become the undisputed singular god king of all.

>No. I want my character to be about my character.

Neat, then play a different splat if you don't want a pact for demonic power that has fucking consequences.

>>97061892
But it didn't and there's no hint of anything like that ever happening again, it's background information to make things seem cool.

>>97061833

I mean we already have the Neverborn for insensate horrors empowering us to lash out on their behalf, we don't need to double up on that.

>>97061906
The Yozis are sensate horrors that are empowering you to lash out, and don't demand that you eventually kill everything... because that would leave nothing to torment. Where the Neverborn are trying to unmake everything, the Yozis just want everything to be as miserable as they are.

>>97061896
The difference is that the Reclamation either happens or it doesn't. One or more Yozi are free or they aren't, and if they do get through then everything else has to be put on hold for that. Even if you want to consider the Balorian crusade as a similar event, that was not something that instantly happened. It was literally a war.

>>97061906
Apart from half the Deathlords being decidedly against giving the Neverborn what they want, the Yozis are different in that they are looking for a power trip. An Infernal who manages to pull off making a society that is just and beneficial to its citizens pleases them about as much as an Infernal that burns Lookshy to the ground. Both are demonstrations of their power.

>>97061930

One Yozi, or the reclamation ones, or all of them, getting out would in fact also be a war.

>>97061979
Anybody who comes to my table with an infernal like that will get laughed out. Really fucking lame.
>>97061995
Are you being obtuse?

>>97062054

Are you? Balor was roughly equivalent to an incarnae and his crusade managed to take 90% of creation's territory before he was stopped because he was smart enough to strike during the contagion.

A loose Primordial such as TED also comes with their own army in the form of their demon hierarchy.

>>97062071
You're being obtuse because Balor invading from the edge of creation in the middle of a blight is entirely different from a Yozi or Yozis reappearing smack dab in the middle of everything. It's not remotely the same, the Yozi is a million times worse and much more disruptive to anything else. That's why it's a shitty plot point and anybody who likes it is a shitty person.

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>>97059593
Apparently Blasphemy in Verdigris got replaced as the main Azimuth by a musician, really not a fan on that change. What are your opinions of individual canon Infernals, BTW? And are you planning on porting any 2e Infernals you played over (and if so what were said Infernal PCs like)?

>>97062176
Personally, I don't mesh with any of the example infernals. None of them really radiate coolness.

>>97061896
>Neat, then play a different splat if you don't want a pact for demonic power that has fucking consequences.
Except that abyssals, which made you make a promise to kill every living thing in Creation, still allowed your abyssal to be a character, not a yozi spawn.

>And you don't see the value of grafting psychological factoids of an insane wounded world-being onto yourself?
No, it makes it about the yozi's and not my character.

>>97062183
>None of them really radiate coolness.
What are the issues?

>>97062216
I don't know man, this is kind of a vibe check thing. They just feel lame.

>>97062199

Yes, because Abyssals are a different splat with different themes and mechanics. Glad you're keeping up!

And hey my current character has like 11 adorjan charms and I don't feel like she's "about adorjan", she's just a speedy martial artist and occasionally has to be deliberately impulsive and savage to make her excellency work.

>>97062238
>Glad you're keeping up!

And you're not, as Ex3 isn't using that retarded logic and I'm happier for it.

>>97062238
Yeah, that sounds like making it about the Yozi, which is stupid.

>>97062247

Meh, 3E doesn't understand any of the things that made the setting appeal to me.

>>97062248

My character is slightly themed to Adorjan, though it's only really a roleplay restriction when's she needs to use an excellency at which point yeah: she has to call on her demonic patron. Who she made a willing decision to make a pact on in a low moment.

Later on she'll be able to pick out a second Yozi for excellency coverage and that'll give her two options in most situations on which to act within the themes of.

If the campaign goes long enough, she can make her own Excellency and act within her own themes, tearing herself free of her bondage in the process. That'd be pretty neat.

>>97062176
Basphomy. Her name was Basphomy. Seems like it might be a Sluggy Freelance reference.

>>97062267
And Ex2 tripled down onto a option that ultimately flanderized the yozi's and tried to make me care more about the yozi's then my own character. When I go deeper into Abyssal charms, I go deeper into things related to death and nihilism, but ultimately my character. When I go deeper into yozi charms I learn more about the yozi rather than having the charms apply to my character.

>My character is slightly themed to Adorjan
Bullshit. The deeper you go into trees the more you become like them, not only in themes but in mindset as well. I don't mind alien mindsets, I like the idea of what epic virtues tried to do, but being compelled to kill anyone who speaks above a whisper is fishmalk tier.

>(Devil Tiger) be pretty neat.
Ah yes, dumping the one gimmick you've been praising the entire time like hot garbage so you can ACTUALLY get charms that relate to your character. I'm glad you see wisdom now. (And don't try to deny it, dumping your yozi lords like hot garbage for your own path is something intended with the charm in flavor and function).

>>97062299

>When I go deeper into yozi charms I learn more about the yozi rather than having the charms apply to my character.

Apparently you lack the creativity to apply shit as basic as "run fast" and "reflexively aware of ambushes" to your own character, let alone stuff like the Malfeas charm for being able to resist fatigue at the cost of nightmares.

>The charm that makes you flip out and attack your party because they sneezed whilst not having much benefit and not being a prerequisite for anything useful is badly designed

Yes.

>I think Devil Tiger is a get out of consequences free card

Yeah bro being E6 and already having an entire E5 characters worth of Yozi charms has no consequences whatsoever. And you'll never want to take any other charms that aren't in personal theme, or borrow any from the other DTs in the party.

>>97062341
>The one whose charm descriptions and fluff is calling out other splats who need to make their own shit to make an interesting character.
Ironic.

>Badly designed stuff is good
lol, lmao

>having an entire E5 characters worth of yozi charms
Skill issue. Bum rush to it. It's trivial with a proper build. I see people do it all the time with how badly they wank off about wanting to play their own character.

>And you'll never want to take any other charms that aren't in personal theme, or borrow any from the other DTs in the party.
Unironically yes. The 2e devs and Neph said the yozi charm trees could be much much bigger, and that aside from some core themes you could in theory make nearly all your charms inside of one. If I'm making my own character, there's very little reason I'm going outside of that. The *vast* majority of DT sets I've seen do this as well.

How refreshing. I haven't had to argue with an Infernaltard like this since the 2e days. Are we going to throw in a "how 2.5e ruined Infernals" debate for good measure too?

>>97062360

Bum rushing devil tiger at the cost of being an effective character until you get there is missing the entire appeal of devil tiger, lmao.

>Thinking I said the badly designed misophonia tree is good

Impressively stupid, well done!

>Am I going to complain about 2.5

Lmao no, 2.0 is completely unplayable. 2.5 has the distinction of being the only just barely tolerable version of exalted from a mechanical standpoint.

>>97062297
Typo, whoops, lol. Still, it's a shame she lost her prime spot, been wanting to see more of her from the start.

>>97062161
If Balor had appeared in the middle of eveything instead of invading from the frayibg edges of Creation as the Contagion was raging, his Crusade would've been shut down a lot sooner.

>>97062410

Yeah I dunno what he thinks geographic position has to do with anything.

Balor was equivalent to an Incarnae and brought down by backstabbing by other Fae, if he was alive when the realm defence grid went online he'd probably have used a perfect defence and still been a serious problem.

If TED manifested then he'd be a severe crisis and you'd need to get allies to help treat him like a raid boss due to his gigantic health and mote pools... But his flaw of vulnerability is just holy charms. He's totally killable. Even failing having those charms, go kill his Fetich.

Other yozis showing up would be a more elaborate problem of course, but I'd expect a storyteller having multiple yozis appearing in creation to either be a moron or well prepared to have his party face them and cram them back into their box.

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>>97062360
There's a certain variety of Infernals fan that only fixates on the higher end of gameplay; the description of The Ebon Dragon as just a "raid boss" is rather telling.

>>97062451

Funnily enough I'm calling him that purely for the context of how his appearance would impact creation: he's huge and obviously everyone's enemy.

Back in the primordial war they were required to use terrestrials to fight first circle demons and mob larger targets to deplete their resources whilst the celestials dealt with the bigger targets and made the decisive blows. TED loose on the blessed isle would cause similar to happen, with actual victory dependent on the PCs being able (or unable, as it may turn out) to do the decisive actions that actually get rid of him.

I'm the guy on the other side of the argument you quoted arguing for the value of the lower end of infernal play. Devil Tiger is a cathartic reward for the tail end of a long running campaign with a very patient storyteller.

>>97062410
>If Balor had appeared in the middle of eveything instead of invading from the frayibg edges of Creation as the Contagion was raging, his Crusade would've been shut down a lot sooner.
I don't think that's a logical progression. It would get worse faster, for sure, but that doesn't mean it would be solved faster, it just means it wouldn't be solved at all. It wasn't any amount of Exalted resistance, or anything in Creation other than the Realm Defense Grid, which shut down Balor's Crusade. Creation was in an uproar throughout the Great Contagion and Crusade already, but the Incarnae didn't intervene, and the Sidereals couldn't stop it (plothole, naturally). There's absolutely nothing saying the Incarnae would get up off their asses any faster if the Fae invasion had started with them finding a shortcut that let them emanate from the Pole of Earth at the centre of Creation. The Maidens of Fate keep on sitting on their asses, Gaia gives zero shits and Luna gives a random number depending on how she feels at the moment, all without any guarantee Unconquered Sun would get up off his ass even if Heaven was falling around him.

If the Balorian Crusade started on the Blessed Isle there's a good chance the Imperial Manse gets swamped and no Deus Ex Machina ever manifests. Or if it does manifest, it might be much more shit - maybe the Scarlet Empress in that alternate timeline gets into the Penitent instead and wields it to annihilate the fae from the South and set it up as the Blessed Isle-equivalent bastion against raksha, but it'd be much smaller and the actual armies of the fae wouldn't be wiped out nearly so savagely. Maybe some plucky Solar remembers the backup Loom in Gethamane and rigs it to banish everything across the Direction, but again it'd be a worse solution. Even both together would be a worse outcome, though it'd be fun to see a two-part world where the Realm fell to the Wyld in the middle like that.

>>97061745
Physically its easy. But they'd end up acting super autistic and get a throbbing erection anytime they came across someone sobbing or angry

>>97061745
Raksha are always pictured with long ears, but this isn't actually part of the mechanics for how they work. As best I can guess it could be one or a mix of fashion statement, proof of identity, and perhaps a common oath a lot of them benefit from to get cheaper assumptions. You don't want to fade into the background or be mistaken as a mortal by your peers, as a raksha, so you identify yourself and want to look fancy.

Technically nothing stops them having rounded ears and chilling with mortal seemings. That being said, noble raksha will always be a significantly over-average hotty, while common raksha are often optimised by their creators and are monstrous Appearance 0 uggos, as a first tip-off, and then a raksha's Graces define how well they can interact with others and maintain identities, which is the second tip-off and the one that's definitely going to wig people out if they try to hang with mortals long-term. However, it is worth noting that raksha have access to a charm that makes them seem human and prevents people getting wigged out over them being aliens.

>>97062511
This pretty much. Balor was only stopped by a MacGuffin, which they were only afforded the time to use because he had to march his ass to the Blessed Isle. The use of this MacGuffin was only AFTER an entirely unprepared Exalted host got their asses kicked by the triple whammy of the Contagion, the techniques and artifice of the Solar Exalted being lost, and Balor actually being a terrifying motherfucker.
To get back to the original topic, Yozis suddenly reappearing in Creation doesn't get to be this steadily worsening threat on the horizon that a group may handle down the road. They're here and it's literally the apocalypse right now because that's what they're capable of.

You also get creation born Raksha nowadays, who are more likely to view themselves as a person and actively fear the idea of dissolving their identity and putting on a new one like a cloak. They'd be the most likely to manage to blend in without just brainwashing everyone around them into ignoring the weird.

>>97062626

You know Balor was already dead when the defence grid was activated, right?

>>97062632
What does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

>>97062645

He wasn't stopped by a mcguffin, in fact given that both of the last two Ishvara gave the unconquered sun problems he'd probably have an easy time perfect defending against it if he was alive.

The grid just dispersed his disorganised armies.

>>97062658
In case you didn't notice, I said your point is irrelevant to the claim I'm making. It's still irrelevant.

>>97062660

The point, dumbass, is nobody did anything to stop Balor. He got shivved in the back by other fae. The incompetence the dragonblooded show when they're stuck on their own, and the bad writing that the Lunars did basically nothing between the usurpation and the modern era, has no impact on what would happen if PCs in the current setting had to deal with an apocalyptic threat.

>>9706264
>i-it doesn't matter! i was making a point about-
eat your correction and move on

>>97062685
I'm not the one arguing the counterfactual here, but even if everything you said is true, that does not change at all the main point which is that the reclamation's urgency if it happens swallows all other stories. Hell, the fact that you said that everyone is incompetent and it's up to the player characters to solve it proves this shit. This is has been a known, acknowledged problem.
>>97062697
Who are you quoting?

>>97062628
>Trans-raksha who consider themselves human
The wokeness has officially gone too far

>>97062706

Reclamation swallows up all other stories if it's the focus of a campaign, oblivion taking the world swallows up all other stories if it's the focus of a campaign, a fourth ishvara swallows up all other stories if it's the focus of a campaign. Hell, 1E had a scenario where Autocthon returned and invaded aggressively that overtook all other stories in the sourcebook it happened in.

What's even your damn point, honestly? Nothing about the existence of 50 infernals tasked with trying to bring about the reclamation means they're guaranteed to work out how to break seals the yozis couldn't on their own in 5000 years. It's a lofty goal amongst many the setting has, and considering how hard it'll be to keep those 50 on-task probably one only a fraction of them are seriously working on.

>>97062176
>Apparently Blasphemy in Verdigris got replaced as the main Azimuth by a musician, really not a fan on that change.
I'm a fan because we all know the shit devs wouldn't be able to properly handle her character.

>>97062511
Nta but Balor would simply have been assassinated earlier by the other fairies if he started on the blessed isle

>>97062706
talking to you if you wrong about something dont try to hide behind "um how does that matter to my point?"

>>97061902
>>97061885
Great Contagion and Baloran Crusade from the perspective of people in universe isn't a one off thing that could only happen once. OOC we know it, because the devs of this edition said that they weren't going to happen again.

>>97062726
It has been said so many times, it's been argued so many times, not just here but it basically every place that it gets discussed that the main problem with it as a plot element is that it's almost entirely binary. You can't have Malfeas just chilling in a town over there causing some local havoc like you can with a Deathlord. You have to deal with it if it's in the game.
>>97062738
Wow man, if you want to do your little small dick gotchas you better get your quote right or else you look like the idiot.

>>97062626
>Exalted bested stronger, unleashed Primordials in the Primordial war and it wasn't noted as being a fight where they were at a huge disadvantage
>Exalted now cannot best weaker versions of those Primordials who are in less quantity
wat

>>97062751
>The apocalyptic endgame of one of the villain factions is binary if it goes through without a hitch!

...Yes? If one of the other scenarios I listed gets to the apocalyptic stage you can't ignore that either.

The reclamation isn't all or nothing until a Yozi is actually loose. Until then, you have infernal plots and demons of various threat levels up to and including third circle fetich souls who rival the incarnae.

As an added bonus: You know damn well that if a Deathlord tries something apocalyptic it's going to actually work if nobody stops them. If an infernal tracks down the Eye of Autocthon and declares he's going to shove it up Oramus's ass to free the Yozis you have zero guarantee that'll actually break the surrender oaths keeping them bound by their own mutilated nature.

>>97062751
>You have to deal with it if it's in the game.
Nta but I fail to see the problem, if the storytellet made a plot where a cult is trying to summon a powerful Ishvara or the Dowager was on the brink of finding her anti-creation it would ve something you have to deal with, same for if he actually allows the infernals to find a way to free the yozi, or the ebon dragon is going to free himself.
If an apocalyptic threat is happening the players should have to deal with it if it's relevant, if not the storyteller can simply make it no happen, or let NPC in the background handle it while the players do something else.

>>97062753

Friendly reminder there were no Elders during the primordial war, and now every faction except for Solaroids have at least a few.

>>97062767
There are already footholds of Oblivion in creation. It's not an if statement, that's just how the game is presented to you already.

>>97062781

And there's pockets of wyld and agents of the reclamation and numerous other problems.

The false binary is yours, I'm afraid.

>>97062783
Are you being willfully ignorant or something? The example shows that the deathlord is already here. He's allowed to be here unlike, say Adorjan, because he is not the active apocalypse. Like how have you been in the fandom this long and not been made aware of people's grievances with the primacy of the reclamation plot? Like to the point where they are writing it out and around it even though the dudes championed it before.

>>97062787

I'm aware that they have an unnecessary grievance with the concept because they've gaslit themselves into the idea "All stories are about the Yozis now!" Like you seem to have, yes.

And again, since you seem to be able to absorb this idea: A free Yozi is an apocalyptic endgame to act as the finale of an entire campaign, not some local single-deathlord affair.

The analogous situation would be the great contagion itself, or some other elaborate fully-realised apocalypse scenario.

>>97062787
Nta but I don't get why do you think an apocalyptic scenario being a priority in the story is bad. Infernals can be used, even scheming for the reclamation, can be used without the reclamation being imminent and swallowing up the plot, if the storyteller actually uses it it's obviously a priority that must be solved immediately, just like if he used any other apocalyptic scenario.

>>97062796
if you know about it then you know we're talking in circles and you know who eventually won that argument. Instead of referring to you directly I'm going to continue on to this other post in order to explain my point better.
>>97062798
It's because most other things aren't actually apocalyptic. Even Deathlords don't actually want to end the world and remake it, most of them have much smaller, much more petty visions that you can interact with. But the Yozi aren't that. They are an alien revenge against everything and when they are free it is their intent to enslave, destroy, and remake everything. Not necessarily in that order.

>>97062787
The reclamation had "primacy" as you put it for a few sourcebooks because it was new. Because, even more to the point, those books were focused on it.

As everyone has been telling you however, it isn't the only big threat you could choose to centre a campaign around by a long shot.

Personally I don't mind them walking back from having it actively talked about in their sourcebooks, but trying to tell everyone it's DEFINITELY IMPOSSIBLE NOW is a bit retarded given some people liked it and you can't as a dev control what people do at their tables.

>>97062808

Won the argument? You haven't even made a good case for it yet.

>when they are free it is their intent to

If. The word you should be looking for is if. Nothing in the initial infernals sourcebook indicated their escape was guaranteed or soon. Yeah, TED has his retarded marriage plot but RotSE wasn't canon, it was just a bunch of ideas for ways to run a concept that had been around since the setting was still a world of darkness prequel.

>>97062808
>Even Deathlords don't actually want to end the world and remake it, most of them have much smaller, much more petty visions that you can interact with
If the Dowager is fishing the anti-creation it's apocaliptic, if the priest found some way to mindbreak everyone into killing himself it's apocalyptic, even for those who don't want to kill everything if eye accidentally release a souped up breath of decay+contagion it's apocalyptic.
This without considering Ishvara, who are eldritch monstrosities who want to destroy everything, or whatever else a storyteller can imagine (the eyeless face breaking free of its prison for example, or the kukla being released, or the engine of extinction, or the onceborn).
You seem to think that a story being apocalyptic is inherently bad, when it's just a tool the storyteller can use to ramp up the stakes from the storyteller.

>your story HAS to be about this now
uhm no.

1e had the possibility of a yozi manifesting / locust crusade manifesting / the fucking KUKLA who could eat your character sheet and yet people still had games in nexus.

the issue with 2e's reclamation is that they wrote way too much about it and it was clear it was a long running metaplot.

if the argument is "well if I say malfeas escaped and is in the world now, my players would HAVE to go fight them", you are a retard.

>>97062819
>>97062821
>>97062828
So you're saying if you write it in a way that they didn't write it and you handle it in a completely different way than they told you to handle it and you take time to mitigate the problems that it might have, it might be good? Wow, really convincing

>>97062753
>Exalted now cannot best weaker versions of those Primordials who are in less quantity
Um, anon, if Balor could give trouble to the Incarnae that puts him on a level stronger than the Primordials, who get solod by the Unconquered Sun.

>>97062787

Hell let's humour this: you want a campaign scenario where Adorjan is the main villain but the world isn't in an immediate apocalypse? Fine.

Early on in the campaign, your PCs disrupt the machinations of the Eye of the Storm, Adorjan's fetich soul (I'm taking the liberty of making OC souls for the campaign because the only one we know about is the 18th and that guy is just some weird autist who likes building roads)

From then on, you have cults, infernals and demons coming after you at various times. The Eye gets more pissed at you as you deny her revenge, so whilst nobody can cast Demon of the Third Circle yet she arranges for one of her Subsouls, a martial artist second circle demon to be summoned to attack you more directly.

Later on, events conspire that you have to visit hell for some reason. You keep your presence on the down low and manage to avoid drawing attention until you achieve your goal, but the Eye becomes aware of you before you can leave and draws the direct attention of her Oversoul to your location. Suddenly the streets are being ripped up by a yandere hurricane and there's no way your E4 asses can kill it, so the storyteller arranges a wild and memorable getaway sequence that nearly kills two party members in the process.

Finally, towards the end of the campaign, everything is all set up for a proper confrontation with the Eye. It's hard fought, but you eventually win and Adorjan collapses in on herself to reform once more as something lesser. Or you lose, I'm not your mom feel free to misplay and roll badly.

>>97062846
>Told you to handle it

Bro thinks RotSE was canon apparently.

Also I mean let's be real: even the biggest fans of 2E infernals ignore the first half of the book that was written by a disgusting edgelord who thought infernals should throw parties where they take turns raping a bloated pox-scarred monstrosity that was once a child.

>>97062846
What I'm saying is that saying the usurpation as a plot point is bad is dumb, the authors hyperfocusing on it can be a problem but this is a completely different argument, it's like saying autochton can't appear because the locust crusade had too much plot armor.

>>97062859
when you talking about the reclamation that's pretty much the only blueprint, tbf

>>97062859
>>97062867
My problem with it has always been as it was written, because it was written really fucking bad in a way that did swallow up everything else important. I don't necessarily disagree with attempts to mitigate it and turn it into like a workable plot but when I say capital R Reclamation I do mean the specific plot points and menopause that was written. These other examples are just demon-focused games, which are fine and we've been doing since the beginning of the game.

>>97062868

As far as infernals at character generation are concerned, the reclamation is "Sometimes a third circle or humanoid jouten will contact your circle and tell you they have a lead on where the Eye of Autocthon is, go chase it up so we can shove it up Oramus's butthole to see if that will let us out of hell"

>>97062873
>menopause
lol thank you g-board. Metaplot

>>97062875
That's pretty much on the level of "sometimes zeniths have visions". I don't know if I count it.

>>97062888

My point is that if you're in an infernals game and don't decide to go totally rogue, the majority of "reclamation" activities will be random missions that the yozis think will maybe help get them out.

If you're running another game with minor infernal villains, they'll be doing some random shit the yozis think might help them get out. Or following whatever stupid counterproductive urge their patron Yozi gave them - I know one guy who played a Scourge who's urge was "Challenge every martial artist you meet" which is absolutely the kind of random shit yozis sometimes decide to implant in one of their chosen.

>>97062875
This is the second time you've brought this up, is there some weird lore about Autocthon's eye and Oramus's butthole I missed because I would not put that crap past the 2E devs. Or whichever 3E dev made that Summon Swarm of Rapist Ghosts charm.

>>97062847
nta but someone in the discord pointed out that in 1e, a single circle of solars threw down with a primordial and won

The sun is kind of a special case: he's weaker than any primordial but he has some very fancy absolute effects going on.

Think of him as a weird puzzle boss where his only weakness is his contradictory virtues.

>>97062943
I don't think that's the case currently. He did have that one write up but it's not really compatible with the game anymore. Personally I go with the original vibe that he is a weapon stronger than his creators, just as the Solar Exalted surpass him.

>>97062893
Yeah but that's not THE Reclamation. I get the desire to distance yourself from the shit writing though

>>97062983

That is a means by which he's stronger than his creators though. It's just that in another way, he's one guy. A regular if absolutely peak god.

Primordials are a world and a pantheon. Ligier isn't really lesser than the sun in terms of raw magical and metaphysical potency, he's just more natural. Sol is a sharpened weapon, a refined tool, but also unstable as a result. Crippled by neuroses and impossible demands.

>>97062992

Honestly I'm not sure what you're pointing at here, is it just the RotSE scenario?

>>97062727
This. If we actually got Basphomy she’d be a fat black woman. Basphomy is for enshrining in commissioned fanart, not for entrusting to the shitshow that is Onyx Path.

I’m still going to tell the devs that the current Infernals are lame and forgettable on the feedback form, though.

>>97062176
>opinions
They are all so forgettable I can’t actually form any. Which is more damning than any actual hatred I could have. All I have is a vague impression of Fortnite/Destiny player characters reskinned for a wuxia setting and then…nothing.

That alone makes them worse than the 2e iconics. For all their flaws, they all struck me as people who LOOKED like legendary demigod warlocks (especially Crab Mummy).

>>97062216
They look incredibly boring for people wielding the power of the damned creators. Give me an inexplicable bondage nun any day of the week over them.

Hey remember when /tg/ handed out free pdfs like candy? Those were the days.

>>97062998
what else would it be? that's the material

>>97063029
I don't think there's a problem with their looks. I think Infernals are just not evil enough anymore and so their characters aren't memorable

>>97063066
I disagree and look at it kind of in the opposite direction. I don’t necessarily think Infernals have to be evil to be memorable, but I do think the new ones having no style is making it harder to imagine them doing anything interesting.

The chapter fiction being a bunch of assholes perpetually bickering doesn’t help.

>>97063056

You're... Getting hung up over a non canon adventure module with multiple choices on how to resolve it and how each major event branches off?

Why? If you're running an infernals campaign download it and pull out some charms and such you have use for, otherwise ignore.

>>97063043
I do. Then /tg/ started randomly shitting on people for that practice and screeching about how it was for muh own good and how the evil tabletop gaming companies had time to sue every bastard without the patience to learn their obscure PDF washing bullshit. So I stopped. Doesn’t help I’ve become increasingly disinterested in both Exalted and /exg/.

>>97063080
Reddit is two blocks down. Go back.

>>97063080
Sir, that's the actual written material. Am I supposed to reference your home game or something?

>>97063099

Module, boy. It's a module. A premade scenario you can potentially run your players through, if you prefer it to just making up your own campaign. Stop me if I'm going too fast for you.

File: 1644217278928.jpg (1.04 MB, 2480x3507)

1.04 MB JPG

>>97063086
>>97063043
It also doesn't help that they banned uploading PDFs because of an exploit.

I'm a bit bored these days in Exalted too, but honestly, I've had a good run with it for 5 years, and no matter how much I will be annoyed at lots of bullshit in Exalted, I'll appreciate the time and investment I had in it. I'll also appreciate the minority of people here that gave great ideas, homebrew and so on. Once my campaigns are done, I'll move on.

Question is though, what is a good successor to Exalted that exists right now? High lore setting (without being Glorantha tier huge), great art and better gameplay?

>>97063105
It's what is actually written and published. Again, what else on this in game topic am I to reference except published material?

>>97063115

Is... Is this the secret?

People hate the reclamation not for any legitimate or interesting or nuanced reason, but because they don't know what a TTRPG module is?

>You don't understand anon! My low stakes heroic mortal politics game covering the border skirmishes between Halta and Linowan is ruined because I HAVE to run Return of the Scarlet Empress in the background!

>>97063133
This is bait

>>97063139

I feel like I'm being baited, certainly...

>>97063113
>It also doesn't help that they banned uploading PDFs because of an exploit.
Oh so that's what happened, I thought my internet was on the fritz

>>97063148
Yeah, nah. Either you quit refusing to engage with relevant material or you're just baiting. Not going to bother with you otherwise.

>>97063099
Nta but the concept of the reclamation predates RoTSE, arguing that if you talk about the reclamation you need to talk exactly of the example they gave, and that it's something that will happen necessarily and therefor destroy every other story, is pretty disingenous.

>>97063133
yes, the devs also cannot separate the concept of "the game as story/metaplot" vs "the game has history/lore", because of this the current world building from WW is so anemic.

I think the blame is in the "supplements as novels" format.

>>97063166

I engage with it just fine, I'm probably more willing to mine it for interesting material than most folks here. Just... Dear god I hope you're not representative and people aren't basing their dislike of a background threat/plotline based entirely on a module being pretty shit.

The setting is and always has been 5 years after the empress vanished and the Solars returned, when everything is on a knifes edge and the status quo could go anywhere.

>>97063194
I think that anon has a zero sum mentality.

Believing that if they remove the primordials, the low end of the setting will take back the forum yap that was stolen by the yozis.

>>97062847
Where does it say that a Primordial couldn't give the UCS trouble?

>>97063113
>Question is though, what is a good successor to Exalted that exists right now?
I wish I had a good answer to give you.

God knows I've been looking for an alternative here and there. Shadow of the Demon Lord looks promi-oh dear, poop jokes aside the system is kind of a bother. Perhaps that Icon game made by the KSBD guy would nice to sink my teeth system, simple system and cool finishing moves, plus it's free to download-oh, the setting barely exists? And it's free to download because it's technically unfinished. Okay then. Godbound, pretty sure we've discussed the flaws and merits of that to death. Perhaps I should check if nWoD is unkilled yet...and, they've most recently released a Beast the Primordial supplement of all things. Oh joy. And I know better than to bother with nu-oWoD. Unknown Armies 3e and Mortasheen actually have a decent system, an interesting setting and a cool power system. There's just one problem. Both are about as far away from Exalted's mood as you can get.

Depressingly, in terms of epic scope and setting richness my strongest recommendations are The Far Roofs and Glitch by Jenna. The problem is, not only is the gameplay tuned for a higher scope of power than Exalted is but the system is so foreign it's diceless. It's a completely different gaming experience more akin to a freeform RP with enforced consequences and systems.

>>97063239
Nta but I...suspect he's going off p. 102 of Manual: Infernals.

>The Yozis themselves approach omnipotence within the bounds of their themes and associations, exceeding the Incarnae in raw mystical power. Though the Unconquered Sun could probably defeat a Yozi in single combat if unconstrained by the divine geas, he can't do things like birth a new world, erase entire swaths of existence in a single blow or lay a death curse horrific enough to corrupt his enemies and their successors to the end of time. In spite of their cosmic power, Yozis remain vulnerable to those who can understand and exploit the imperfection of their natures as the Exalted did during the Primordial War.
>could probably defeat a Yozi in single combat
>Yozis remain vulnerable to those who can understand and exploit

I. Think. These are the relevant lines that created the impression killing a Yozi (and therefore, a Primordial) is light work for the Sun, given the passage otherwise emphasises the Yozis are greater in scope but lesser in fighting and winning..

>Keys (permanent Charm upgrades)
>Blasphemy (Charms that offer bonuses in Devil-Body form)
Ooooh. They're cribbing from ExWoD, whether they admit it or not.

>>97063497
>Blasphemy.
They had to rework it, after the blasphemous effects went to Getimians

>>97062628
>>97062710
terrestrial raksha and raksha that have never known and don't want the wyld have been a thing since 1e, stroke your /pol/dick elsewhere, like a rally for lynching kids

>>97063652
I think they become terrestrial spirits after a while.

>>97063113
>Question is though, what is a good successor to Exalted that exists right now? High lore setting (without being Glorantha tier huge), great art and better gameplay?
I dunno about succesor, but I found out that Japanese TRPG's seem to be closest ones to the Exalted feel. Which reafirm my in belief that Exalted biggest mistake was moving away from a strong anime like feel. Current editions wants to be this mature and serious bullshit mixed with woke politics like US comics instead be like Manga or old saturday morning catroons.

>>97063673
I think it is because Japan dodged the calcified genre purism, that 1e exalted was meant to also dodge.

And Japanese media also drank heavily from the same sources, the Elric of FMA is named after the Elric of Moorcock.

I thought the wasp mounts would be prettier

>>97063729
They should look more beautiful in an otherworldly way, yes. As it is they look like regular wasps except super-sized, typical of the imagination-starved 3e.

>>97063729
Crystalline invertebrates is a lost art/trope in general, a notorious example is new Skarner from LoL

>>97062372
Whereas the appeal for many people in Devil Tigers was getting to play as the character you want, not as the yozi you want to cosplay as. Don't you dare deny this as many many many people have demonstrated this time and again.

>2.5 has the distinction of being the only just barely tolerable version of exalted from a mechanical standpoint.
Bro I was going to call you points confused but you really shouldn't be throwing stones in that glass house.

>Racing Vitaris
>Outside of combat Infernals can travel Dexterity X 10 miles per hour over open terrain
Damn, my little joke was right. Once again Infernals are the kings of mechanical supremacy simply by virtue of the devs having had the time to get to grips with the new system by the time of writing them.

That they can also shoot fucking arrow storms at people or warping space to travel difficult terrian unimpeded or summoning Adorjan's fury to scour everything in their passage is just the cherry on top of an edition full of dice tricks.

>>97063113
>It also doesn't help that they banned uploading PDFs because of an exploit.
QRD?

>>97063806

Wow that is ridiculously slow, 50mph?

>>97059593
What do you guys think of the Charms in the backer draft that just dropped?

>>97063765

>DoNt YoU dArE dEnY tHiS

I really don't care what power gaming idiots who rush all the way to E6 instead of playing their character think. And learn to speak like a normal person, not an outraged Victorian-era school matron.

>Cosplay

You have a really strange view on this, you know that? Yeah the character I want to play has some of Adorjan's speed and Malfeas's toughness and mutation capability and a few minor Cecelyne tricks... But they aren't a yandere hurricane. They aren't a self-mutilating city or a desert either.

Outside of a few very specific charms you are *drastically* overestimating how much your psyche gets warped. It's mostly in moments of intentional channeling during excellencies.

>>97063914
>And learn to speak like a normal person, not an outraged Victorian-era school matron.
Na, I speak however I want.

Also lowering DT shit to essence 1-3 in Ex3 also proved this. Yell about the intended way all you want, didn't stop the stupid minmax builds I saw gunning for it.

>>97063914
>You have a really strange view on this, you know that?
Such as myself and several other people who complained about this back during the 2e days?

>Outside of a few very specific charms you are *drastically* overestimating how much your psyche gets warped.
I acknowledge that Infernals have some neat charms regarding personality warping. I even said that I like cosmic virtues. My point is that bad ones do exist and unless you can homebrew you're told to get fucked. Neph thought that becoming a fishmalk tier character just for wanting Unsurpassed Hearing was cool. I liked the tier of the Ebon Dragon charm that set all your virtues to 1 were neat, only ruined by powergamers. Or how about the interactions between Kimbery's intimacy charms which locked you into something only to ditch them with Adorjan charms.

My point anon is that these are criticisms. Ones levied time and time again. Ones that Infernal fans seems incapable of recognizing why others hate them, and how others got extremely sick of the hyper focus the reclaimation got in Ex2.X. I don't give a damn if someone says its only one option. Perception matters, and when you release an entire book based on it then it's understandable how people have their perception coloured, just like how Wonders of the Lost Age super ingrained magitech into Ex2.X despite the Sisyphian of trying to set the expectations of new players that it isn't all like that. This is why Holden (correctly) assumed that making the Reclaimation impossible is better for Ex3, as it set the tone immediately and those who really want to do the story can do so in their own game as an option rather as a defacto norm.

>>97063807
Tha hackers that brought this site down, did it through the use of pdfs

>>97064004

Glad to see you take your opinions from a sex pest with a hamtaro avatar.

>My point is that I, and a few other people, have criticisms

Your point is that you have an opinion?

>>97064004
>Such as myself and several other people who complained about this back during the 2e days?
People contradictorily complained about every aspect of the game, really; some hated the 2e Infernals transhumanism, others hated that it wasn't transhumanist enough, while others hated both

>>97064049
Except that he was right on this. Anon just because Adolf Hitler was the one who said "Screen doors on submarines are a bad idea" doesn't mean he was wrong. Holden has a lot of bad takes (what I've heard from Demake especially proves this), but when it comes to knowledge on Ex2.X then you better damn believe that yes he knows what he's talking about. This includes many of the Infernal charms which he helped write and the expectations he tried to set going into Ex3, something which the original developers still mostly adhere to.

>durr you have an opinion
And you don't? I ignore Ex2.5 mechanics because they're an absolutely broken pile of shit. Something that has long been a solved game where even despite gentleman agreements I see the mega builds appearing on all higher essence characters. But ironically, I still consider one of the best ways to play exalted.

Second yes, these were issues that myself and many others had. Ones that actively annoyed us and ruined our reputation of the game. Given what I've seen of the Ex3 Infernals as well, it seems these criticisms were addressed and are better off for it.

>>97064070
Yes, but I'm being generous and believing that transhumanism is part of being an Infernal. Aside from shit like Wretched Hateful Noise, the only ones who complained about Infernals not being transhumanist enough were the freaks that left the game (making things better) or banished to the island of misfit exalted fans.

>>97063870
So is stormwind rider etc. Add a zero to magical overland speeds

>>97064115

I mean given that you seem to be doubling down on that other anon's thing of letting RotSE colour your impression/expectations of the canon setting I'm despairing for humanity a little here.

Let's be blunt: The main thing Exalted have going for them as a concept is being able to enact improbable status quo changes onto the setting. A bunch of non-elder exalted overthrew the primordials in the first place.

Whilst the yozis are terrible at incentivising their exalted to stay on task, stay loyal, or even at making any actionable plans, the slim hope of escape is kinda critical to why they even have them.

(that's another issue with RotSE by the way: TED got out all on his own, without the reclamation doing anything. Makes you wonder why he even bothered teaming up with the Neverborn to break the Solars out in the first place: he didn't even use the infernals.)

>>97064115
The ones who complained about Infernals not being transhumanist enough; or the were anti-infernalfags, who did it every time that somebody pointed out that the permanent charms weren't as disruptive as the anti-infernalfags claimed.

Or they were people who just hate anything that isn't "realistic and grounded".

>>97064185

Honestly other splats should have had more permanent charms: Toggling minor effects that stack over time but do little individually is a pain in the ass.

>>97063361
Eh, I don't think a passage that says that the UCS "could probably defeat a Yozi", not even that he would certainly do so let alone that it'd be an easy curbstomp for him, should be takena s implying that a Primordial would be light work for Sol. I'm glad you provided that quote, though, because for years I've had an annoyingly vague recollection that there was a passage talking about the relative powers of the UCS and the Yozis somewhere, but I hadn't been able to remember where that passage was.

>>97063911
>infinite third circle demons for 2xp each at E3
Super-cool but I'm concerned about possible balance issues.

>>97064198
I think it is influence from the necroscope, despite how powerful a psychic in it was, they still had human bodies.

Devil Body is meant to be a reflection of your individual damnation and manifestation of your exalted power. So why the fuck is there an E1 charm that lets you just make another one and pick between them. Lame.

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>>97064183
> letting RotSE colour your impression/expectations of the canon setting
Letting it colour my perceptions? Perhaps. Letting it colour the throngs of people who slammed the reclaimation into nearly every 2.Xe game I tried to get in around this time? Yes, I have exalted PTSD from this period. Seeing a game ad with a Storyteller going "I don't think the story I'm planning will fit Infernals, but I may take one if the story is good" then seeing literally 19/25 applications be Infernals, including one person who tried a quick minmax DT build and another who wrote a 47-page backstory for their character (I'm not kidding).

I know there are some good Infernal fans (Revlid, Neph, even Holden made some cool charms), but at the same time they exposed the absolute worst of the fandom for me. It did absolutely colour the perception for a vast majority of the fanbase

>>97064270
>47-page backstory for their character (I'm not kidding).
Kid numbers, post critical role D&D's characters on avarage have twice as much.

>>97064049
Wasn't Morke the sex pest?

It's been a while. Can solars fly? Because Infernals can fucking fly

>>97064353
No, it was me. I'm the sex pest.

>>97064270

Every sizable group of humans has shitters, letting the shitters define groups for you is a quick path to madness.

I'm surprised to hear exalted was ever as popular as you're making it sound though - I was only really into reading the manuals for ideas back in those days (because I thought storyteller games were borderline unplayable) and very few people around me had even really heard of the franchise. I'm only even in a game now because a friend went "Hey we've got an exalted game in the works over on another server? Want in? It's an infernals game and I know I've heard you sperging out over the metaphysics of the setting a few times"

>>97064407
Eagle Wing Style. It's Essence 3.

Glass Eyed Occulus isn't super powerful or anything, but its just a darn nice charm tree that I will enjoy

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>>97064270
>47-page backstory
What do you remember of it?

>>97064270
>47-page backstory for their character (I'm not kidding).
Only backstory or we include all the charms and other shit that increased word count?

So are there any interesting locations in the infernals book?

>>97064820
My dick.

>>97064474
I admit it was far more popular back in the days. I hate to sound like old man going "back in my day", but the perception I have is just that. You go on the RPG.net or official forums and you saw people discussing every aspect of the setting. Multiple people wrote realms of homebrew for the game. Some people remember Holden, JiveX, or TheDementedOne (Vance), but I remember other people just as jester which whose charms were utterly broken (balanced off of old DotFA charms pre-errata), they had tons of amazing flavor. Some writers for essence complained that they couldn't under Solar's flavor, but I felt like if you read Jester's charms you'd understand pretty damn quickly.

These days you barely have anyone making stuff. Sandact being the main one, but it's like there's no fresh blood being injected in this. We can go on tangents about how Ex3 is terrible or how discord/nu-social media killed homebrewing, but at the end of the day the Ex3 homebrew scene is dead compared to the old days. I felt like the discord died a lot too.

>>97064702
Just the backstory

>>97064560
I wish I saved it, as the dude deleted/hid it when he wasn't invited to the game. It was a Heaven's Reach game, and the first 24 pages was about his character being a mortal smith trying to make an artifact blade on a medieval backwater planet. Honestly it felt like he made it for vanilla creation but changed the end. I never got to the end as I was making my PC and focusing on studying as it was my last year in university.

>>97064887
There's a homebrewing discord?

>>97064924
Several. The main ones are the official discord then the Exxxalted one as a distant second.

I feel one of the problems is that people post their stuff there then it gets utterly buried beneath the chat, whereas in a forum you see it on the front page for some time and conversations in it are far more contained.

>>97064887
>These days you barely have anyone making stuff. Sandact being the main one, but it's like there's no fresh blood being injected in this. We can go on tangents about how Ex3 is terrible or how discord/nu-social media killed homebrewing, but at the end of the day the Ex3 homebrew scene is dead compared to the old days. I felt like the discord died a lot too.
Devs wrongly assumed that Exigents and Evocation will be what will attract Homebrewing crowd. That they can control thier community and shape them into what they like.
When as you said, i think it was this stupid crazy inconsistency, imbalance and quite controversial presentation of lore that didn't gave a fuck about political correctness. It was from this madness that sparked creativity, attracted discussions etc.
When Infernals or even when RotSE released it didn't make people leave Exalted. It actually created quite heated discussion.

3e is to safe. Way to modernized with modern politics, when it was this ancient heroic mindset of various cultures and characters that was unique and brought in the crowd.

>>97064946
>Exxxalted one as a distant second.
There is such channel? I don't really use discord so i never heard it. Were can i find link?

>>97064981
To be fair evocations did bring people in. If you poach through the Discords you can find a lot of artifact. Not the crazy amounts we had in Ex2, but *a lot* of them. The problem is they're in fucking discord and people don't post them anywhere else.

As I said, there could be a debate on "what killed Ex3 homebrewing", but for me that's pointless. To me I just look that it's just dead. Out of *everything* that happened in Ex2, one of the biggest things that ever pissed me off was the bungled forum transition that killed *years* of homebrew in one shot. Like I remember some old Heaven's Reach homebrew fluff, and the place I found it again a decade later was on a TV Tropes board of all places.

Considering we're approaching the end of Ex3, we'd be able to do a post-mortum on it. Assuming WW allows an Ex4.

>>97064997
https://discord.gg/SmyuG6aZ

Again, it's distant. There's another homebrewing area I know of, but that's mainly people making fluff/short stories.

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There appears to be no limit on the number of 3rd circle demons an Infernal can create.

What will they do to finish off 3e? 1e ended with the Lion/Firstborn, 2e ended with RotSE, who will do the honors of opening the last show before this edition's curtain call?

>>97065295
Essence breaches the mainline universe and kills everything off, succeeding as the true form of the game

>>97065303
Ah, so Getimians.

>>97064270
>Good Infernal Fans
>Revlid

You're not a good Infernals fan if your solution to Lunars is making them Infernals (via TAW).

>>97065197
Oh not just third circle demons, infinite Essence 8 (at E5) demons plus n*7 second circle demons.
Super chill and not at all concerning.

>>97065388
Instead the solution is making them transform into animals and nothing but animals right? Silver Infernals = Bad Silver Furries = Good, right?

>>97064821
Oh, Isidoros? Good to hear that your dick forrest wasn't cut

>>97059593
Weekly Update
>Redlines
Sidereals Jumpstart
Matthew says: By the looks of it, this might be our best Jumpstart yet in terms of dynamic and explosive adventure. Keep your eyes peeled!
>Art Direction
Infernals (BK) – Backer Kit ongoing…
Champions of the Divine Flame – Take a wild guess at what Navella is gonna be doing…
>Layout
Alchemicals – Some tweaks being made to artwork
>Press
Exigents – File prep
some steady progress. the art tweaks for alchemicals have been going on awhile. from the bk art samples maybe it's all the humans drawn without soulgems
https://www.backerkit.com/call_to_action/13111d66-b3cd-4af1-8981-a1857089de78/
donate if you want to, but it's a holiday. maybe spend your money on eggnog or a pizza or something. anyone that can supply the draft manuscripts would be appreciated
also there's a small sale at drivethrurp. not everything but many books across all editions are cheaper till monday
next update maybe weekly+monthly due to timing

>>97065378
Yes, it was/is going to be the war on heaven source book.

>>97065394
If a player abuse it, just throw an elder Hearteater at them.

>>97065537
What's a Hearteater?

>>97065597
One of those shitty exigent types that ruined the setting.

>>97065597
One of the Apocryphal trio exalted, they have the power of possessing anybody who has a permanent essence rating equal or less than their own.

The only exception is fellow exalted.

>>97065728
>One of the Apocryphal trio exalted
Are they in Exigents or written out somewhere?

>>97065694

>One of those shitty exigent types that ruined the setting
They are a proper exalted type, and ironically enough, the less intrusive nu-exalted.

>>97065729
They are in the Exigents appendix, and in the essence corebook companion.
They only got a npc write up in the latter, since the essence devs decried them as too dangerous to exist.

But there's a senpai supplement for them.

>>97064270
I mostly agree with this. Infernalfags are the worst shitters in the fandom and a large part of why I consider the Exalt type to be a mistake

>>97065388
The only thing I remember liking with TAW was that you could make magical animals out of the gate. I was able to make Glaceon as my spirit form and loved it.

>>97063668
no, tourist tranny, you're referring to late stage 2e material.

>>97065420
>I'll say that the special effects are limiting even though this applies to exactly no types of Exalted!

3/10 I replied.

>>97065839
With Charms, every animal form is a magical animal, though admittedly they might not be exactly what you were looking for.

>>97065913
what's the fogshark charm
>wings mutation
lol

>>97065295
Getimians or other nu exalted like Dream something, or Heart something or other new types.

>>97065961
Funny you mention the mutations, I think that having them takes away from the rest of the Charms. Especially since Essence has an actual Charm that does let you fly with any form, with no ceiling or other restrictions.

>fogshark

That would be be one hell of a flight ceiling and time restriction, you realize. Wings as a generic mutation are literally superior to its flight form.

If Infernals can make their own dimension Solars should be able to use Solar sorcery before E5

Weird thread. Devil-Tigers were 100% something people rushed for and got really interested in because it let them make their own exalted type. You can find tons and tons of charms for them online still.

RotSE was terrible. Infernals didn't exist in it, sidereals were retarded in it, the sideplots were pretty lame and everything happened because "An Akuma was in the right place at the right time". It being so focused on that WoD metaplot and the Ebon Dragon just makes it even worse. The only good thing to come from it are a few names a funny memes.

It's an adventure book that doesn't help with an adventure and is basically some nerds attempt at writing a story. You really have no place enjoying this book more then I do. FFs infernals basically turned out to be nothing more then a distraction.

2e fans are weird because people who play 3e have no problem admitting that the system isn't perfect but then you get people who say 2.75 (wtf even is that?) exalted is somehow the best rulebase exalted has ever had. Shit is very silly.

I still wish someone would release the Infernal backer stuff for me to read because I don't want to pay for it.

>>97065694
>seethingfag is wrong
imagine my surprise

>>97066278
>I still wish someone would release the Infernal backer stuff for me to read because I don't want to pay for it.
I like your jib and your post for being vindication.

Tell you what. If anyone can confirm the PDF's don't have tracker pixels, I'll upload the Infernal PDF's after I'm done work.

>>97064260
Ah but it’s a manifestation of your INFINITE POTENTIAL so clearly you are super ultra damned.

>>97064407
Y-yes? Have been for a while now like the other anon said, and Bonfire Anima Wings helps them fly even better.

>>97065039
>We’re approaching the end of Ex3
This is really funny to me. The edition has come and gone, and I honestly agree with >>97064981, it failed everywhere outside the Discord because the devs repeatedly shot themselves in the foot with regards to “safe cool”

>>97065197
>>97065394
It’s balanced by the fact that the ST can just point out the Infernal isn’t an interesting enough person to have enough personality traits to embody, Cup Boils Over-style, and by the fact that any player with the patience to sit down and write all those fucking 3CD statblocks when WE STILL DON’T HAVE GUIDELINES FOR WRITING 3CDS IN 3E is basically playing a different game at this point

Unless you’re playing with someone who decides that his character’s entire personality is different flavours of Sibri.

>>97065388
…wasn’t that EarthScorpion, not Revlid?

>>97066262
Eh the dimension isn’t that broken, the really tangible stuff mostly only pops out at E3 and you can’t quite go full Domain Expansion with it (although I guess you could fluff that happening with the Perilous Domain Devil-Body power along with inner world investment). Overall I would say the inner world’s Charm stuff roughly matches a mobile Terrestrial working at E1, Celestial Working at E3 and I’m not even sure if it’s as powerful as a Solar working at E5. It is, however, focused on the Infernal’s person and cool as fuck though

>>97066443
Revlid helped in TAW, but I think he said himself he didn't help much compared to some other folks.

>>97066443
>WE STILL DON’T HAVE GUIDELINES FOR WRITING 3CDS IN 3E is basically playing a different game at this point
I'm assuming they will be coming in the Infernals antagonists chapter

Does anyone have a copy of the very first draft of Essence the one that had the description of the Infernal castes all be literal SJW exalted unlike the later version that partially walked back so only most of the Infernals were SJWs who fought against oppression and inequality? I think I deleted mine.

>>97064981
You have other things that are very libbed out selling well (D&D, Pathfinder, LANCER, Vampire the Masquerade, etc.). I think in this case, its more that the core book took an eternity to come out thanks to Holden and Morke's stubbornness and thus killed all momentum. Its also not d20 and that's all retards want to play these days.

>>97066770
Despite the problems with the core, I think they just don't know how to market and sell it.

For example; instead of comparing the wyld hunt to the main cast of demon slayer, Essence choose to use Muzan as an example of a Deathlord.
I.e, instead of playing as the popular characters, you just fight against the boring antagonist.

Here's the Infernal KS pieces released so far

https://litter.catbox.moe/6a5wfhsl7fsghsyl.7z

>>97066443
Soul World stuff is neat but also a pure fluff ability. It doesn't really explain how powerful things can be, how you get them from your soul-world into the real world, how you enter your soul world, along with a bunch of other stuff.

The Devil-Tiger stuff in 2e was cool but mechanically meaningless. I'm really hoping 3e fixes that by explaining how to do it and what you can do with it and more importantly how.

>>97066842
>https://litter.catbox.moe/6a5wfhsl7fsghsyl.7z

who the fucks saves futa in that format what the fuck even is a webp.file? also i'm sure wtf touhou even is.

>>97066850
Sanctum-Soul Threshold Meditation lets you go in, it's keys let you take others with you. Otherworldly Wonder Gifts lets you bring stuff and people you made there back out.

Devil Tiger and its extension charms gives you 7 2nd Circle Demons at E2, a 3rd Circle Demon at E3 and infinite 3rd circle demons at E4.

I'm not sure I'm grasping how Devil Tiger is meant to work. They clealry want it to work, there's a whole bunch of effects tied into it and the Blasphemy keyword. But the default is reflexively when you take damage to your -4... most of the time I just straight up blow past my -4. Unless you can do it reflexively even if you'd otherwise blow past your -4.

And there's one to reset it when you're incap'd. But unless you're incap'd on bashing, aren't you normally brown bread?

I guess you could take the 1/story crippling injury to hit your -4, and then 1/story devil tiger. Or just leverage the other conditions, but I worry that'll get abused pretty quickly.

>>97064486
Eagle Wing Style is kind of clunky, desu. This effect has been handeled a lot better in other splats - including Infernals.

>>97066870
No, sorry, I mean for 2e. I'm still reading the stuff for 3e. Unless I'm mega misunderstanding something.

>>97066892
X in incapacitated is dead or dying. Magical healing can undo it before you croak, presumably Devil Body does something similar

>>97066828
That's not really marketing. Marketing is putting out ads for your product, supporting various actual play's like the [X] By Night series for VTM, creating franchise tie-ins like the various video games WoD gets, etc. Paradox, for whatever reason, does not want to do any of that for Exalted. I think its probably because Exalted did not have a popular video game associated with it like VTM did; Paradox thinks as a video game publisher primarily and VTM nowadays seems more like a way to facilitate the VTM visual novels and (hilariously) VTMB2.

>>97066909
That's fair. Normally it doesn't come up in session because if you're incap'd you're out of the fight - so if you're dead or just mostly dead isn't relevant until our Twilight looks at you. And he's bragged before that he can save a man who's head has been cut off.

Still have the issue that often you're going to blow past these things. But maybe Infernals will have some charms (outside of Ox-Body) to make it easier to hit these things.

>>97066916
I got the impression that the heads of PDX just personally really liked WoD - and weren't as big fans of the other game lines.

But then again, I got the impression that the heads of PDX like some kind of super-powered fangs with capes version of VtM that bears very little relevance to the game as written.

>>97066936
>some kind of super-powered fangs with capes version of VtM
You mean ExWod?

>>97066916
Every single time you talk about your product, you are marketing it.

>>97066968
Saying something bad isn't marketing it, it's the opposite of that.

>>97066972
No such thing as bad publicity

>>97066972
Like I said, they don't know how to market it.
The art also doesn't help.

>>97066916
Due Paradox bought WW because the CEO is a massive MASSIVE larpfag. Like that default graphic on OPP's forums has the CEO in the back on it.

>>97066863
The sad part is I can't even tell if you're shitposting or not about what this file has.

>>97066870
See, I'd have gone for 1 Second Circle Soul at E3, a full set of SC souls at E4 and then you evolve them each into Third Circle Souls at E5, when you could already summon demons at that level.

>>97067184
I forgot to mention that all of the demons are also your essence+3. Solars and their pissant summoning spells are getting blown the fuck out

>>97067198
That's wrong though? It's at most Essence+2. Also, Solars can summon Second and Third Circle Demons.

>>97067210
The final charm explicitly stacks with the 2 and grants a further 1. And Solars can summon a single 3CD, and if it dies they're out of luck until the next calibration. Infernals can have as many as they like at all times at essence 4. No contest

File: martin.png (129 KB, 393x598)

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>>97067159
This guy? That's Martin Ericsson, the former lead of Vampire the Masquerade. He's not the CEO of Paradox, lmao.

>>97067249
Oh I thought that was him.

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>>97067260
Nope.

I'm bored, so I'll do a quick rundown of White Wolf/Onyx Path's acquisition by Paradox and tie that into Exalted.

>CCP Games bought out White Wolf in 2006 to make a Vampire the Masquerade MMO. In 2011, their failures to manifest anything at all and a series of bad design choices for EVE Online causing a dip in subscribers resulted in the executives laying off quite a few people across the company and canceling the MMO.
>Onyx Path gets founded the same year, as White Wolf post-layoffs could no longer handle publishing its own material; all the books slated for 2011/2012 gets shifted to them. They don't really have any money, so they shift to the recently popularized crowdfunding model to sell books.
>Exalted 3e gets a Kickstarter in 2012. Since TTRPG crowdfunding was new, they make the terrible mistake of having stretch goals add directly to the core book. In addition, the lead devs (Holden and Morke) have severe disputes with Rich Thomas, CEO of Onyx Path, over payments for what they wrote. This causes them to drag their heels on development.
>In 2015, CCP Games sells White Wolf and all their game assets to Paradox, hoping to recoup some losses on the MMO. Paradox was looking to break into the RPG market, having recently published the game Pillars of Eternity. White Wolf is used to published World of Darkness publications, while Onyx Path gets the newly renamed Chronicles of Darkness, Exalted, and all the other White Wolf properties.
>In 2016, Exalted 3e finally releases. Holden and Morke continue sandbagging; this causes the first splatbook for the line (Dragon-blooded) to be delayed to 2019.
>In 2018, VTM 5e drops. In the same year, they also drop a sourcebook for the Anarchs political faction. This book makes the dumb decision of saying Chechnya, a republic within Russia, has vampires embedded in it profiting off the gay purges. Chechnya is incensed because they publicly insist those purges aren't happening at all.

>>97067448
this sounds so biased that it's actually painful to read. Can any non-retards add their point of view to this?

>>97066842
>>97059593
yeah this guy's a fag. the zip is 40mb so don't try whatever this shit is

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>>97067448
>This mild international incident cause White Wolf to be folded entirely into Paradox, no longer existing as an independent entity.
>Chronicles of Darkness and Exalted chug along with a predictable screeching to a halt during the Covid-19 pandemic, but eventually Paradox stops approving new books for the former, presumably seeing it as internal competition for World of Darkness's 5th edition.
>>97067473
What do you consider biased? I do have citations for most of this; the only things I'd have to dig for are the reasons for shitcanning Holden and Morke.

https://www.pcgamer.com/layoffs-at-overstretched-ccp-world-of-darkness-team-worst-hit/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzjC6lD7JCs

https://www.polygon.com/2018/11/16/18098929/white-wolf-controversy-paradox-interactive-new-ceo/

>>97067496
>>97067448
I also forgot to mention
>In 2017, Holden and Morke get fired and replaced with the current Exalted lead developers, Vance and Minton.

https://theonyxpath.com/princes-gambit-joy-exalted-plans-monday-meeting-notes/

>>97067473
Every there happened, the rebranding was caused by fear of internal competition.

Because of this kickstarter beast is labeled as a wod game, and the final product is a CoD one.

>>97067504
Also found the podcast where Holden discusses his side of the payment dispute with Onyx Path post-firing. I don't recall Onyx Path having a response or any public statement on why they fired Holden and Morke, but I'll check.

https://sponsoredbynobody.podbean.com/e/exalted-offtopic-a-history-of-exposure-3rd-edition/

>>97067494
I'm reading it right now so I either have a virus or anon just really like his futa porn. I don't judge. I just don't know what the fuck touhou is. Is it like a franchise? because i know it mostly for loli stuff.

>>97067596
>I don't judge. I just don't know what the fuck touhou is. Is it like a franchise
A really popular bullet hell waifu franchise, Lux from League of Legends was copied from one of the chicks.

>>97067553
I'm not sure they ever issued one, just a generic so-and-so has been let go.

From what's been said, I get the impression it was because they were taking ages on the books, and had reduced the circle of trust so it was only the two of them and the layout artist (notably not the editor).

I also believe the root cause of the dispute (haven't listened to that podcast) is OPP had them on work to hire, and wanted them to produce core. 'Cos it's work for hire, any material they produce on company time belongs to the company. Holden produced a whole lot of work beyond spec, and didn't see a dime for it - presumably as far as OPP is concerned they paid for it because they were paying them to write a book. Hardly their fault they went over-board and produced more than they'd been hired to do. Actually kind of a problem since they'd hired them to produce a book - they'd failed to produce it - and they needed some product they could actually sell to get an income.

The accusations against Morke didn't help, and Holden got flak for defending him - but I'll be honest, I think that just gave Rich T. a convinient excuse.

And then after firing them, OPP stopped following Holden on Twitter or blocked him or something, that rubbed Holden the wrong way.

>>97067828
I think they were being paid by word count, which also explains the weird repetitions in the writing

>>97066443
>…wasn’t that EarthScorpion, not Revlid?

I don't think so, but one of them might be more about copying Infernals and the other Sidereals.

>>97067494
Figured as much.

Just for a quick summary:-

June 2013, Ex3 is kickstarted.
April 2016, Ex3 core released.
July 2016, Miracles released.
March 2017, Holden and Morke let go.
November 2017, Arms of the Chosen released.
April 2019, Dragon-Blooded released.

>>97067937
3 years to release something with all those fucking dice tricks?

>>97067957
Don't forget that it's under tuned.

>>97067957
They kept redoing it, and planned to write all splats at the same time.

>>97067973
Thank Christ they didn't. Every fucking splat having all those goddamn dice tricks would have made it a shitshow.

>>97067957
I should've added:-
Febuary 2015, the leak comes out.

Those are the facts. I'll admit I have a bit of an anti-Holden bias. But he had an attitude that I think rubbed a lot of people the wrong way. During development he was asked if he'd fix the issue with the BP/XP split (i.e. BP doesn't spend the same way as XP, so there's "optimal" and "unoptimal" ways to spend BP in char gen). His answer was along the lines of:- "I'm not in the habit of giving people bad rules just because they think they want them."

When the leak came out, people seemed excited. Possibly because it'd been years with no content. They could have leaned into that, looked for feedback, early access or whatever - instead they closed their "circle of trust" to prevent leaks and locked out their editor. A job you'd think is pretty important.

Surpass the Silent Wind us a hilarious charm and I want to see a full party of internals take advantage of it. It does need some text to close the loop but it's still just fantastic.

By closing the loop I mean you don't want someone to activate a second time after someone activated theirs because you'll get basically infinite speed till you run out of motes. It would just feel very silly if it came up in game.

>>97067997
defending 2d char gen rules might be one of the dumbest things Holdon has ever done. Even a retarded autistic knows that it's just not very good.

I still don't know wtf they were thinking pricing shit the way they did or why the FUCK you can buy essence levels with BP. I've seen people defend the combo system because of how much it helps the game not get bogged down - I have never seen someone defend the char gen rules or the maths behind it.

>>97067997
>>97068049
Holden was only really good within the confines of the 2e system. His bloated and underbaked Solars, along with his unhinged takes are proof.

>>97067828
I'd go further and say any reputation holden had as an RPG author went down the shitter. He was banned on RPG.net, a place where he was a MOD at.

Fun fact: One of the WW/OPP mods came out and said Holden got pissed off about not being a mod on the official forums despite being one on RPG.net as OPP thought it would've been a conflict of interest.

Holden's credibility tanked even further when the "#believeallwomen" became "now wait a second guys lets look at the facts" the moment Morke started being outed. That was the instant that portrayed him as a hypocritical shithead which made me doubt anything he had to say. I'm not saying I believe everything from Rich's PoV, but to me they're both bad actors.

>>97067997
I don't know what happened with the second leak, but the first leak was caused by a deliberate bad actor. It was one of the schizos in the exalted IRC suptg server. They believed anything Glories onward was the downfall of Exalted and leaked the playtest once all the charms came out explicitly to try and derail Ex3. I asked two friends of mine who were in Ex3 playtests to check the dude was someone who never posted or interacted with anyone.

>>97068084
>They believed anything Glories onward was the downfall of Exalted
And they were right, so far as I can tell. I hope they feel vindicated by what has come out since then.

>>97068060
Like I said, I'm not the biggest Holden fan. But I suspect the truth isn't "He was only good within the confines of 2e" - I suspect the truth (like with a lot of people) is "He's really good when he has people above him who can push back, reign him in, etc."

>>97068094
They failed in that regard. If anything the leak strummed up a ton of interest for the game.

Keep in mind this is before holden had his crashout, so he had some good faith in the community back then despite the delays.

>>97068100
I agree. Holden is a type like Kojima or Lucas. If you give them unfettered creative control you end up with a shitshow.

So, we are on the Infernals preview as the next release now?

>>97068105
Difference is^, Lucas has good ideas and a good direction even before oversight and Kojima is some sort of insane genius. Holden doiesn´t seem that impressive compared to them.

>>97068174
Holdon has a bunch of neat ideas and I enjoy reading the stuff he posts. He can feel a bit like a basic bitch at times but there are far worse complaints that could be made against someone. I will say after reading a bunch of his posts I -really- think the fucker needs to smoke some weed to chill out before he starts talking to people.

Might have saved him a huge headache I dunno. I also know of this Revlid guy and really like his homebrew. I hear Mork a lot but I actually don't know shit about him.

Personally my favorite homebrewer is Qafiansage because they seem pretty. They do 3e though so I'm not sure they count.

>>97068105
>They failed
Obviously they failed to derail 3e. That doesn't change that they were right that everything past Glories, including all of 3e, was a downward trend.

It's a shame that even after they got fired the legacy of the awful Solar charms still tainted all future products since imagine how people would react if all other exalted got half as many charms that all worked better than Solar charms.

>>97068284
Holden truly belongs on /exg/, most of us (and I’m not excluding myself from my own verdict) have the exact same problem of being unable to chill despite generally being less basic bitches.

>>97067896
Hmm. Well at any rate I can safely attest going by the currently released Charms that Infernals once again have better transformations than Lunars, with the caveat this time round that they are much more Charms, Essence and circumstance-gated while Lunars can turn into sparrows or yeddim from chargen.

>>97067448
>their failures to manifest anything at all
Judging from VtM 2, maybe it was a mercy in disguise.

>>97068376
It is however hilarious that Abyssals are much better than Solars simply because they don’t set out to mirror /quite/ as much despite a lot of their best tricks effects being dependant on Crippling or other debuffs landing first, so they don’t have nearly as much Charm bloat. And that so far Infernals are looking to be the winners among the Solaroids simply from breaking away from Solar Charm design entirely, and thus storing their “free excellency” effects in other Charms rather wasting entire Charms on them.

>>97068397
I wish I found it hilarious. Instead I'm stuck with this awful design and I'm not about to make yet another exalted hack.

Exalted can only be saved by a 4e that actually improves the mechanics and removes all the awful lore changes 3e added especially the woke shit. Sadly I don't know any devs that could actually do that in addition to the fact that leftists would bomb their houses if the they removed the tranny shit.

6C7NEGSK64#TLbmYrIGT4wa

6WTERQVWMG#WEuR11lAZejQ

FZGT9K6R84#thkhhzYVi0Y0

V38CHFJEFR#j8vlaeX4HOAW

Ask Duke Nukem's archnemesis which service these are on.

how does it feel to know that exalted exists beacuse some aberrant cast planar genesis?

>>97068501
Imagine a videogame comes out of nowhere and ruins all the naysayers with a flood of new players.

It's not going to happen, but imagine.

>>97068387
>Hmm. Well at any rate I can safely attest going by the currently released Charms that Infernals once again have better transformations than Lunars, with the caveat this time round that they are much more Charms, Essence and circumstance-gated while Lunars can turn into sparrows or yeddim from chargen.

The simple solution to that would be to make a lot more Lunar Charms that are some kind of actual, described-in-Charm transformation instead of the multitude of bland, Silver Solar stuff we got for the third edition in a row. And also maybe allowing Lunars to get magical abilities from animal forms in their hybrid shape.

That said, being able to alter the size of animal forms shouldn't be over looked. Also, we don't know how Infernal duplication will shake out, so it might not be good to bet on that against Lunar swarm Charms.

>>97068559
Fanon. Technically, anything could exist because of Universe Creation, but canonically only Mal ever pulled the trigger on that, and it's never described in its canon, so any definite conclusion there is a headcanon at best.

>>97068553
>Ask Duke Nukem's archnemesis which service these are on.
Jesus fucking christ dude this is exalted not warhammer where you have GW frantically searching for pirated shit just give us the fucking links

>>97068587
Please no. God fuck the constant transformation stuff. It is consistently the lamest shit about Lunars. Infernals can have it

>>97068625
>Don't make the shapeshifting Exalted transform!

Are you about to push for discount Fair Folk again?

>>97068605
I kept getting rate limit errors when I included the full Proton Drive link.

>>97068662
>Are you about to push for discount Fair Folk again?
nta, but it's way better to focus on the other themes Lunars have than transforming into <something shit-tier> now that we've concluded that Lunars aren't allowed to transform into anything else. The Lunars start at their endgame, as far as transformation is concerned. Other fields of competency sometimes outscale the transformation endgame in chargen, even.

I honestly have no idea how to fix Lunars especially in the confines of the shitty Storyteller system. They should be able to transform into more than just mundane animals like they could in 2e and their abilities should be more than just shapeshifting but I have no idea how to balance that shit.

Especially since so many people want Exalted to be mudcore

>>97068690
here's how you should post it then

drive dot proton dot me slash urls slash 6C7NEGSK64#TLbmYrIGT4wa

>>97068690
tg can be fucky with direct links by design. it's why we usually do indirect links. so something like mega links would be conveyed with
m3ga
/file/whateverthefuck
whatever lets people assemble it with some attention

>>97068761
>>97068553
thank you both

Come on dudes it's not complicated, lunars are the turn into animals and use animal powers stats.

>But Solars can jump over mountains and punch rivers in half! Animals are weaker than that!

It's symbolic. Just use "Strength of bear" then tear down a fortress wall or whatever.

>>97068869
>It's symbolic. Just use "Strength of bear" then tear down a fortress wall or whatever.
This wraps back around to Silver Solars. What can animal excellence do that human excellence can't? Spit venom- Solars can spit so hard it counts as a throwing weapon, and they can gargle any of the worst poisons they can find. Bear sleep- but humans sleep too. Heart wasps and undertow can possess people- oh wait you can't use them, not mundane animal-ish enough. Fly- oh wait, Solars can do that too for some reason.

>>97069020
Solars can't fly, they can just jump really, really well

>>97069031
>Solars can't fly, they can just jump really, really well
As of Castebook Night they can jump so well they actually literally fly via Eagle-Wing Style. As of 3e core they can grow bonfire anima wings and fly.

Maybe they should clip or rename every Solar charm that references animals and give them to animals instead.

>>97069059
>Maybe they should clip or rename every Solar charm that references animals and give them to animals instead.
*and give them to Lunars instead
Typo, sorry.

>>97068662
Fuck no, but I'm so over shapeshifting it's crazy. Literally everything has to be forced through the gay as shit wonder twins filter and that's not exciting. I'd rather have 3/4s of my Charms be silver solar stuff and 1/4 be stuff actually representing the moon and the night

>>97069350
I'll be honest, I feel like an issue is a I know multiple Lunar fans, and I am pretty sure none of them agree on what Lunars are *meant* to be.

>>97068049
>I still don't know wtf they were thinking pricing shit the way they did or why the FUCK you can buy essence levels with BP.
Legacy mechanics from vampire the masquerade.


>Buy Essence with BP
Legacy from older games, and so your character could, for example, be a sorcerer from chargen.

>>97069371
I can tell you we all hate being told that animal shapes are a suitable substitute for actual flavor and mechanics

>>97066278
>Devil-Tigers were 100% something people rushed for and got really interested in because it let them make their own exalted type.
People did not actually do this in games.

Three guys talked about it a lot online.

It's strange how people just assume that 3 guys online talking a lot is representative of the community.

>>97069519
Frankly, there's a lot of things people talk about online that I've never seen done in games. And if people can't find games, and want to get excited theory-crafting or what have you, that's fine. Devil-Tigers really seemed to capture people's imaginations, and I can appreciate it as something people worked towards even if they got there.

But I do worry a bunch of stuff in the infernal thing comes from that angle of seems cool - but isn't actually particularly useable in game. There's a lot of support for Devil-Tiger in 3E, but how often will all this stuff you've put a lot of effort into actually come up in game? It feels like it has way more support than DBT, and will come up a lot less often.

And having an entire soul hierarchy sounds cool, but having to use that charm 49 times?

>>97069371
pretty much anyone who has an issue with an exalt will have various interpretations of what they "should" be. This is also the same for Solar charms, because everyone has a different idea for it.

>>97068478
I was led to believe Infernals would be anything other than Infernals right up until the current drafts started releasing. Then much like the Chivalry of Death turned out to be the old code of conduct for Abyssals but no longer directly spoken by the Neverborn, it turns out Infernals are in fact using more Yozi power than ever not less than before, ARE most definitely embarking on a transhuman form of evolution that starts at Essence fucking 1 that is EXPRESSLY something greater than individual Yozis, and the writers have confirmed Ipithymia is canon. Amazingly enough the kickstarter is going well, and of course the more vocal fandom is pretending all is going just as keikaku and ignoring Crucible and Pillars.

I have to laugh because the other option is to start screaming I TOLD YOU FUCKERS SO and explode from sheer frustration they were baiting so hard in the opposite direction for literally no reason, only to turn around and give me almost everything I wanted in practical terms only repacked under a different narrative. To just ask the universe why, WHY, they didn't just emphasise this was the plan from the start and save us all a heap of trouble.

Literally all I have to complain about anymore is that I wish Basphomy in Verdigris was still an Iconic instead of those boring dweebs in the chapter fictions.

>>97068062
Gonna be honest with you, I never liked Morke one bit and I stil think the allegations were bunk. Unlike with the Beast guy we never got any hard proof.

>>97069628

I mean the new version of devil tiger looks retarded: spawning swarms of second and third circle demons at essence 2?

>>97069550
I think some people just cannot separate secondary and primary values from a franchise.

It is like if people believed Naruto was its shitposting or theory crafting versions.

>>97069630
Weirdly the issue isn't really Morke - at least not directly. After the accusations came out Morke has mostly decided to keep his head down.

Holden, however, was always very "SJW". And by very "SJW" it was of that if-your-not-with-us-your-against-us, people-who-are-against-us-deserve-to-be-shot strain.

When the accusations came out against Morke, he spoke about how it was just harmless flirting, and it was a conspiracy against him by OPP/RPGnet/Green Ronin. That's the issue - the hypocricy of it.

(I went over to Holden's blue sky to see what he's posting nowadays - and they're tearing Brianna Wu apart over there.)

Ok so would I be stupid for asking - I got put off EX3 by the Kickstarter previews and the senseless changes to important metaphysics, so I didn't keep up with it.

What are the couple of people in this thread accusing it of being "modern politics", "woke", "sjw" talking about because that could mean actual shitty content or it could mean "argh I saw a woman or minority I am grievously wounded because I'm a sensitive right wing snowflake" and on 4chan of all fucking places I can't tell the difference without specifics.

>>97069727
Both

>>97069020
>Spit venom- Solars can spit so hard it counts as a throwing weapon
I don't think that's a Solar charm that's ever existed in the books.
>Bear sleep- but humans sleep too.
A bit reductive comparing it to the Lunar charm, which does quite a bit more than human sleep; it removes your need to eat and drink while you're hibernating and suspends your aging.
>Fly- oh wait, Solars can do that too for some reason.
Not really; Eagle-Wing Style doesn't let you fly outside of combat and only in response to an aerial target. No target, no flight.

I've played Lunars 3e and the only attribute where I got the vibe that this was just Solars again was Dexterity's combat charms. Shapeshifting was always fun in combat and to mess around with NPCs, though. I think my only other issue I can remember beyond how generic Dexterity was is that the Protean tag is oddly restrictive; you have to be shapeshifted to get full efficacy out of some social charms and it doesn't work with Lunar hybrid mutations, which is such a letdown if you want to go werewolf-mode rather than going full animal.

>>97069727
There are some weirdnesses both big and small in and surrounding it, like Penumbra caste being chosen among people who had checked their own privileges.

>>97069702
>(I went over to Holden's blue sky to see what he's posting nowadays - and they're tearing Brianna Wu apart over there.)
Brianna Who?

>>97069785
It is a gamegate thing, let's not talk or discuss about this.

>>97069628
I'm happy for you but I'll never play Infernals so I don't care. I was bemoaning Solars needing a fix

>>97069785
One of the main targets of GamerGate, along side Zoe Quinn and Anita Sarkeesian.

Holden and his circle are still as rabidly anti-GamerGate as they've always been, so it was just weird seeing them now dogpiling and attacking Brianna.

>>97069791
Fair. I just think it speaks a bit to Holden's attitude/personality. There are people out there genuinly fighting for social justice. I get the impression Holden just wants to bully people.

>>97069774
I genuinely hate how much Shapeshifting I have to do to make things work. I fucking hate this WtA baggage and I wish they had meaningfully reformulated Lunars into something that's not so rooted in a lame gimmick instead of making dumb new Exalts nobody likes.

>>97069807

Gamergate was fucking idiotic and nobody came out of it looking good, but the Wu and Quinn were always scumbag grifters of a type left and right people both can't stand. Sarkeesian... Is a cringe moron, but I don't think I've heard of her being actively evil like the other two. Yet.

>>97069821
Well, you're entitled to your opinion but I don't agree.

What are the most broken or cheesiest ideas for a Sidereal of any edition that don't involve elder sutra SMA charms?

Solaroids can have some absolutely broken stuff and I'm now morbidly curious about the other splats. How would you build a "one exalt against the world" Lunar/Sidereal/Dragonblooded?

>>97069791
>let's not talk or discuss about this
"See how he recoils, how injured he is, how he suddenly shrinks back: I've been found out!"

>>97069807
>targets
Nice historical revisionism. Those retards kept whoring for attention up and down and using their supposed victimhood to get rich. They weren't "targets" of anything except critical scrutiny that exposed their corruption and hypocrisy.

>>97069864
You're entitled to your opinion too, even if it's wrong and retarded.

>>97069864
Look, I made the post. Shapeshifting should be a part of Lunars, but it should be a line of charms instead of their entire kit. Everything that shapeshifting is could be condensed to like 4 or 5 charms leaving the rest for other directions

>>97069889
But anon, if Lunars were able to do ANYTHING AT ALL besides transforming into regular animals (not even a fogshark lol) then they would become Silver Inferals(tm)! They would stop being the petting zoo Exalted! Why would you want that?

>>97069871
>They weren't "targets" of anything except critical scrutiny that exposed their corruption and hypocrisy.

So you would say the critical scutiny that exposed their hypocrisy "targeted" them? That they deliberately "whored for attention" and, GamerGate instead of ignoring them, decided to focus attention on them. To, if you will, "target" them.

>>97069915
>leddit spacing
>arguing minutiae and semantics
>whiny passive-aggressiveness
What a perfect cancer trifecta! Anyway get raped to death please.

>>97069889
I don't understand what you mean by it being the entirety of their kit, though. Your higher Essence charms in everything outside of the physical attributes have little-to-nothing to do with it.

>>97069903
I'm not a fan of TAW so I don't want them to go down that route of transhumanism either, but I want there to be more specific idea threads that go through their charms. Someone posted about anime bullshit ninja clones a few threads back and that was cool. I'd rather take that over DBT.
>>97069928
I was being a little hyperbolic, but imo, shapeshifting should be like a small charm tree in appearance or something and that's it.

>>97069944
Excellent dubs, but I disagree with this too. Shapeshifting is a part of Lunar identity, yes. It shouldn't be their entire thing, correct. It shouldn't be restricted to turning into barnyard animals, of course. But I think it could use a sprucing up regardless. I like that idea about using illusions and ninja mirage clones. My opinion is that a Lunar should get to be Alex Mercer* and another Lunar should get to be the self-cloning illusion master ninja. Lunars need to get to do more things, to BE more things, in general.

*(To date I still don't understand the weird hang-up the devs have with not wanting Lunars to be like Alex Mercer in any capacity.)

>>97069869
In 1e, just use violet bier of sorrows.

>>97069871
>"See how he recoils, how injured he is, how he suddenly shrinks back: I've been found out!"
Nah, I checked Holden's bsky, that conversation is irrelevant here.

>>97069944
I'm confused since you've got Charisma, Manipulation, Intelligence, Perceptions, and Wits to pick from if you're not into shapeshifting.

>>97069976
Alex Mercer's a monster and way more antagonist/body horror coded. I just don't think they want that kind of thing to be optimal, and I agree. Shapeshifting/transformations shouldn't have combat power.

>>97070012
Shapeshifting is all over the physical stats and it blows. In other news, water is wet.

>>97069628
Subvert expectations, and Infernals are the last splat capable of drawing dimes.

There's also SLS's post about triangulations, "don't give the players what they want, but things they didn't expect to want".

>Shapeshifting/transformations shouldn't have combat power.
I think if you want to open up other expressions of Lunar identity, this does have to be decoupled. Otherwise you might have ninja dude but you'll never SEE ninja dude because being a beastman (or some massive dinosaur) is still optimal

>>97070050
Animal ones are very limited, see the vanilla!zoan problem from one piece.

>>97070017
>Alex Mercer's a monster and way more antagonist/body horror coded.
Your point?

>I just don't think they want that kind of thing to be optimal, and I agree.
Why?

>Shapeshifting/transformations shouldn't have combat power.
Again, why?

>>97069628
>To just ask the universe why, WHY, they didn't just emphasise this was the plan from the start and save us all a heap of trouble.
I honestly doubt that this was always the plan for the non charm stuff anyway. I fully believe they were going to have Infernals be the SJW exalted like they were initially presented in Essence and all the other stuff but only walked back completely once they got enough pushback.