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>[chuckles sovietly]

>97059727
true true lot a big babies wahhhhhhh but I wanna be the chosen one.

God forbid shit happens you have fun keep doing insane retarded shit going on some inane journey to hell and back. Losing sanity suffering refusing to give in. As such you get strong as fug brass balls and a willpower of diamonds.
Gaining the attitude of come at me bro I dont even give a fuck about dying.
I'm having far to much fun living this horrid life. I dont even understand this retarded game anymore, what is life, what is the meaning of this all. God if you're real I wanna kick your ass for being so shitty&lazy.


Getting stronger and learning secrets no mortal should know. While pissing off evil assholes for refusing to give up&die is the only thing that gets me outta bed anymore. Or just going on random adventures give in to chaos become one with it. Go with the flow man.

>>97059943
How Quiet are your surroundings anon? They seem a little higher than normal for being on this site.

>>97059943
>Shizo rant out of nowhere
We have a potential marauder here. Get the Iterators on the line.

>>97059943
The overall scenario of playing a mortal who's gaining knowledge is arguably better served in Hunter but yeah I suppose so
>>97060093
Iterators are liable to purge half the board

>>97060136
>purge half the board
Good. Blessed be Mommy's claws that'll scratch up this site

>>97060136
>purge half the board
Good, they're long overdue for their pogrom

>>97060136
>mortal who's gaining knowledge is arguably better served in Hunter
If you're an Arcucknum "hunter"

>>97059986
>How Quiet are your surroundings anon?
Good question, the joys of tinnitus is its never ever ever quite. You always hear ringing and when nothing is to be heard organically. The ringing in your ears get louder and louder.
However once in awhile I get cool auditor hallucinations, where I can hear news radio but with static. Its quite but its there in the background.

Oh also I live under subhuman savage pavement apes that scream all the time and love putting cracks in the ceiling but wont be evicted even tho they have broken every god damn rule/law and caused a shitload in damages.

>>97060196
You can gain knowledge for your own means without being jobber scum
>>97060144
>>97060165
You lads are going to be part of it when it turns out you're reality deviants Changel*ngs getting people mad, not even the technocrat posters will be safe in the long term. I'll be safe though, I'm just schizophrenic

>>97060226
Don't worry about me. I've got an in unlike the other deviant.

>Read the HtR: Fall From Grace opening fiction
P E A K
E
A
K
Paradox's refusal to acknowledge the Imbued denies us our schizokino.

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>>97060226
>Spoiler
But I studied economics and own crypto? I'm a Syndicate mage

>>97060432
That's the one with crusader being possessed or some shit so he can save the civilians, right?

>>97060404
>>97060443
You're both on the block too, never forget
>>97060432
Schizokino is mainly held back because it's not VtM5 but for something else, unfortunately. As well as not appealing to Vigil players because apparently Paradox can only see sales numbers and not how good a brand is

>>97060457
>Trying to sow sow discord within the union
Yeah, I can see what you are nephandi

>>97060432
>5th edition is shit
No way, really?

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>>97060466
>sow-sow
You're telling me you aren't a reality deviant? Pic rel might be you

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>>97060517
Well, you got me but I'm not the kind of RD you think.

>>97060533
What did poor Rasknitt do to deserve that :(
Good taste for a gif though, I kek'd

>>97060457
>anon thinks he's not above being improved
Those KPIs are looking a little down, my man.

>>97060455
>sacrifice civilians
Remember the demonic menace that prevents our ascension takes many forms

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>>97060564
>spoiler
Total Rat[spolier]kin[/spolier] Death, just as God wants

>>97060585
What the fuck even happened in that. Did he make a deal with some kind of demon in order to save those ppl? He says he think it's a messenger. But then he also considers killing the other hunter chick who's also made a pact with a demon or some shit and was doing some ritual. Was everything just demons

>>97060615
How about you Sugmar dick
Love me some Saltzpyre though
>>97060578
I will not eat ze bugs for better quarterly revenue

>>97060644
He was the demons, Hunter. Never forget or you become teh demons too.

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>>97060674
That's grim.

>>97060674
Is this one of those stare into the void things?

/wodg/'s opinion on the imbued?

>>97060455
>>97060644
He gave himself up wholly to the Messengers. He was no longer a flawed human with doubts and wrath, but had become a tool devoted completely to the Shining One's game. Which is possibly why he was able to wound Lucifer himself in Time of Judgement.

Justine, Oracle171, was the one who unknowingly sold herself to a demon. Fucking Innocents, man.

>>97060735
Oh damn okay. I was unsure of if it was actually a messenger or some sort of trick. Pretty crazy stuff. Also rip oracle.

>>97060731
Not nearly enough wariness in regards to angels showing themselves instead of doing something more practical. They get flattened and their subsequent meltdown is minimized to jack off to undeserved HFY sentiments.

>>97060731
>Sees the truth of world
>Confrontational and possibly anti-social
>Have strong, and often untrue, opinions on the various supernaturals
The Imbued are literally us.

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>>97060731
They're cool and it's a shame they got ditched by Paradox despite already having low powah hunters in their books, would rather have a
>HtR5 with Imbued
>HuntersHuntedV5edition for normals
Would have been much better
>>97060735
>Gave himself wholly to the Messengers
Is he him?

>>97060731
Shizos with powers, could be useful or could be enemies, figure it out and act accordingly

>>97059735
Interesting interesting.

>Obfuscate can affect all five senses
>Nightmare can affect all five senses
>to date there's no Devotion to create an illusory decoy to get "hurt" in your stead while you get into position to set up a sneak attack or just run away
What gives?

>>97061388
Probably torn between having it be something equivalent to a ritual that you set up in a domain compared to a more active combat use.
There's also the third hand of; it sounds like something you'd find in Chimerstry if all the fun stuff wasn't relegated to elder powers.

>>97061354
What if a changeling pledges a ghoul

>>97061399
Nightmare isn't a Discipline in VtM, but you're right it should be something you can do without being an elder.

>>97061422
You want a strix possession? That's how you get a strix possession

>>97061354
>>97061422
How magical of a girl could you make as a vampire or changeling?

>>97061511
Probably very
>Mask for transformation sequence
>Potence for super strength
>Thaumaturgy for some sparkly princess magic
>>97061450
That sounds like a funny mini-antagonist

>tfw my woke Black (Kindred) power Brujah fell in love with a SS LARP-ing chud Venture

>>97061787
>Not a skinhead brujah and a creole semi-aristocrat ventrue

>>97061667
Thinking on it more; I feel like a pledged mortal might stick out a little to a strix. It'd almost certainly be by chance but they'd likely react faster to the strix's presence leading to them standing out.
Once possessed, I wonder if the glamour drip would alert the changeling to the possession. Cause a strix won't mimic 1:1 and the potential excitement for the strix would likely seep into the glamour.
If the pledge doesn't just snap when the possession happens.

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>>97061667
Now all I need to do is learn animalism to become a cutsey mascot

>>97061910
Maybe you can use it to turn your ghoul into a cutesy mascot as a Malkavian and then use your schizophrenia to imagine the whole event

>>97061917
>Malkavian
Awful. 0/10, no love of the game. Be a Ravnos mahou shoujo. You got the magia powers that'll only mysteriously show up while in costume(illusion). Animalism for the mascot.
Fortitude and their weakness, plus illusion, allows one to get the kick of an exhibitionistic fight while being (mostly) okay.

Do hunters ever end up accidentally killing civilians and law enforcement? How do you idk come back from something like that

>>97061940
Yes but if you don't want to be a Malk magical girl you won't really be believing in the fantasy, you'd be on the same tier as a weeb. Completely fine if you're playing one of those, but the Malk is basically actively believing in the fantasy. I like the Ravnos idea though

>>97061910
I meant to say protean not animalism

>>97061949
>law enforcement
Definitely, probably every group is infiltrated by the Camarilla
>civilians
Maybe through pure coincidence, I don't imagine Hunters walk into a hospital looking to kill all the doctors just for a chance to kill ONE vampire but I imagine if the situation is desperate enough you may as well bomb the place

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>>97061787
>Implying the black bruja aren't skinheads

>>97061949
Two to maybe three ways.
>Imbued
They're corrupted and you were saving what remained of their immortal soul by killing them. Or they were a monster like the others because there's never just one.
>Not imbued but experienced and/or with a group
What were they doing around the target anyway? Probably worked for them if they were even aware of it. You're probably doing the town a favor because they were clearly corrupt. the group'll garish your wages beyond covering it up
>absolutely new and this was during your first hunt
Hahaha oh god. It's fine. It's fine. They were under the monster's...thrall. Right yeah. The big meat blender has a thrall cause clearly they were running at you with aggressive intent. You'll do better next time. You have to. For them.

>>97061969
>first hunt goes terrible
>have a mental breakdown and develop a death wish trying to attone
>party has to deal with your suicidal schizophrenic ass talking about past tense family you knew
>this unfortunately involves the party in your attempts to reach redemption by death
Would be kino

>>97061787
>>97061844
Thinking too small
>brujah gadfly college chick with new money exec black milf

>>97061969
Makes sense, thanks.

Also do the imbued ever get like abandoned by the messengers or have their powers revoked or some shit if they kill innocent ppl? I think that's a thing if they become infernalists, right? I was just thinking about scenarios where like hunters want to break into a hospital or prison to access a patient or someone who could give them more info about whatever they're hunting, or maybe to rescue a friend, and have to deal with security and law enforcement who might not be aware of what's really going on.
>>97061989
I do also like this idea
>>97061960
>may as well bomb the place
That could make for an interesting element to a conflict.

I'm still having trouble navigating the politics aspect of VtM, specifically about the 4D chess aspect of it. I am not a cunning or devious person irl so I don't feel smart enough to make a bunch of characters who are supposed to be smart master manipulators. How intricate should webs be for a chronicle, and how do you make plans that feel like it's a complex web while leaving room to fill in the blanks as you play the game? For example here's a story I'm planning for my group
>neonate dies in the city
>not well liked but the Prince really liked her so he's mad about it
>everyone's trying to curry favor so the fledgling coterie is approached by the shadow as "hey could be a good way to score points"
>at this point it's a standard murder mystery
Now with that premise, how involved should I make the inciting motives and aftermath and how it affects the rest of the following stories?

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>>97062061
Look at premades to get an idea.
Remember that, for a city, sometimes you don't need a deep web but wide web that can add complexity.
Using your murder mystery as an example:
>victim was involved with three groups known throughout the court. X, Y, and Z.
>group X (specifically person AX) is behind the murder. The motive is passionate, human, and entirely on AX. The group stands to lose if the finger points to them. Dislikes group Z because of a grudge that's cooling ever since the Prince ascended.
>group Y benefits from the murder because it distracts the Prince. Curiously AY can be placed at the crime scene and has a known grudge against the neonate. Group Y wants to usurp the Princedom but is new and hasn't gained ground with either X or Z.
>group Z has found opportunity from Neonate's death and can shift things into place. AZ's whereabouts aren't accounted for but they were in the building during the time of the murder. The Prince hates group Z because of whatever, while group Z doesn't like group Y because Z knows what type of people they are.

Going off this hypothetical premise you can give 'em three supposed suspects. That have different impacts if they're implicated. Naturally, with how the example's arranged, Z and Y may reach out to each. They'll be grinding their teeth to dust but they both stand to profit greatly if they can get X implicated or just have the mystery prolonged.
X, meanwhile, may reach out to Z to try and use AZ as a patsy. They'd owe group Z and they hate the idea of it, but it's better than letting AX take the fall and they at least know group Z.

The Shadow's little set up with the coterie could lead it to where the Prince's confidence about who the killer is falls onto the coterie. So whoever the coterie picks ends up more about politics than justice. If they play it that way. That's not to say that them not using the blackmail of the actual killer isn't also a possibility.
Oh also sometimes the books will have flow charts

>>97061960
>I don't imagine Hunters walk into a hospital looking to kill all the doctors just for a chance to kill ONE vampire

>>97062032
>Also do the imbued ever get like abandoned by the messengers or have their powers revoked or some shit if they kill innocent ppl?

The Waywards exist.

>>97062023
>doomed yuri
I like it
>>97062032
Yeah, even for non-imbued hunters it'd be a case of the Trolley problem on a large scale

>>97062193
One Vampire isn't worth slaughtering the entire hospital unless they're ghouls or involved, but I could see it being the case that they do

>>97062193
It'd have to be like an elder/big boss vamp to warrant that response.

>>97062193
>waywards
oh right, fuck
>>97062194
>Trolley problem on a large scale
makes sense.

>>97062061
I think maybe you start by coming up with a few basic reasons why the neonate would be killed and how other parties like the Chantry feel about the prince. Murder mystery is a bit hard because all the good murder mysteries rely on red herrings and clever foreshadowing, but clever foreshadowing can end up with blatant
>Woah, this edgy bitch called Cassandra really did kill her husband huh?
If you're too obvious with it. So I would say try to incorporate your party's PCs and their connections and spice it up through there. Maybe someone the PCs liked did it because of a bad relationship with the neonate or to get at the prince or as some 5D backgammon for the party to get an in with the prince, and suggests pinning the blame on a rival.
Just a bit of spitballing

>>97062204
Bro, a Wayward bombed an Innocent's, a FELLOW Imbued, coffee shop because he thought she wasn't doing enough for the Hunt.

>>97062222
Based schizophrenic, the Messenger's didn't even need to convince him
>>97062208
Trolley problems are my favorite, always a fun way to test a group's humanity by judging their moralizing over choices there are no right answers, I just want to see them agonize over it

>>97062222
She wasn't. They're Malhim for a reason, anon. They say fuck your imbued, Messengers! For a reason.

>>97062222
What the fuck kind of hunter runs a coffee shop? What, is she going to poison their frappes? Come on, at least run crypto scams or something, there's no way a coffee shop makes enough money for the Hunt.

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>>97062249
>What the fuck is info gathering?
>Why weren't they doing crypto in the 00s?
>What's an Innocent?

>>97060731
HtR's biggest issues are very much the context of the game and how it exists in the wider WoD. I usually prefer to grade games, even oWoD games on their own, but with HtR that really isn't possible for several reasons. Firstly, it's a Hunter game, so you're going after monsters, which often begs cross-splat interactions, especially in oWoD which has few to no splat neutral supernaturals. The biggest and most foundational issue with the Imbued would be: calling them Hunters. oWoD had Hunters since first edition with Hunters Hunted, adding a different, new, and special kind of Hunter that gets its own splat is confusing at best. Given that they're basically WoD's equivalent of Paladins, they should've been named something different for clarity's sake, especially since for many, the appeal of being a Hunter is being the guy with no powers taking on the forces of darkness. Next, HtR is very tied up in the ass-end of the metaplot. They just started happening. It's only happening because of the apocalypse. That can leave a lot of tables in an awkward position if they want to do something with them, because their existence is a blip in the timescale of history. A lot of work would need to be done to retroactively add the imbued to the setting earlier, even I who is a fan of using the setting as a guideline and writing over whatever I dislike find that to be more trouble than what it is worth.

Now for the practical problems. Imbued do have powers, but they're in a frustrating place where most edges don't have enough oomph to encourage head-on fights with monsters. Many edges are about negating monster powers, and as a result Imbued fight by dragging the foe down to their level, which is cool but denies you the high-power fights that would be a theoretical strength of HtR over alternatives. Not a fan of how inflexible Creeds can be. Ultimately it caters to a very specific fantasy, which isn't for everyone.

TL;DR: Interesting idea in theory, awful execution.

>>97061511
Well, CtL2e gave us the Fae Touched minitemplate. Fae Touched can learn contracts and store Glamour, even get some unique Merits.

Add to that Hedgespun clothes and so on and you can get extremly magical.

No idea for vampire.

>>97062032
Infernalist hunters don't actually lose their edges. The messengers stop speaking to them and they show up as monsters to other hunters' hunter vision but that's it, all their abilities remain intact.

>>97062061
I'm also struggling with this. For now, my excuse is that my city is a former Sabbat city that defected along with the Lasombra, and they're basically running it as "what the Camarilla propaganda says they are." My plan is that as the game continues, the PCs can watch them get embroiled in the Jyhad and things become more complex.

>>97062222
If you're not a part of the hunt then you're against it, simple.

>>97062649
Even if you are part of then they can just kill you because God demanded more martyrs.

>>97062955
Well, can't argue with God. Tie me to a missile and fire it at (insert splat here), I am ready.

>>97062258
Fuck those who want to coexist with monsters.

>>97062249
Is this the shit stirrer again? Even if the hunt is an important part of a hunter's life or the most important part of it, they're allowed to do things that don't directly contribute to the hunt. Hunters are still human, they aren't robots.

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>>97062397
It's weird how they managed to make an even worse execution of the Exalted.

>>97062961
>Hunters are still human, they aren't robots.
The hunt takes precedent over your 9-5. You will go full murder hobo/jihadists and die trying. You can rest when you are dead.

>>97062977
Can you provide a citation that says that all Imbued must become obnoxious murderhobos please?

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>>97060731
I always loved how Imbued Hunters are guys who become Buffy but without the plot armor. Especially Extremist Imbued.

>>97062973
Nah, Imbued is nowhere near as some shit in Exalted. Only Solars really work. Lunars are Solar's worse side-grade. Infernals suck. Abysalls suck even more and explode everytime a Solar is near. Sidereals are fun but you nearly never get to play them. Dragonblooded are functional but most don't want to play them. Alchemicals...exists I suppose.

>>97062980
All level 5 Edges, the Wayward and Bystanders.

>>97063011
Most don't become Extremist mate. They usually don't go that far deep in the rabbit hole.

>>97062397
It's sad how Hunter and Orpheus both got probably the peak writing quality of classic WoD yet were easily the least actually playable lines.

>>97063007
I get what you are talking about, but even the dullest of the Exalted templates still runs laps around the Imbued in terms of hooks. The hunters have a mystery with only 2 or 3 viable solutions that never went anywhere, as far as I know

>>97063014
Nah, they just die before they reach the right breaking point for shit like this.

>>97063011
>All level 5 Edges
Most don't become Extremists.
>Wayward
Most aren't Wayward.
>Bystanders
Hunters become Bystanders when they fail to act during the pivotal moment of their Imbuing. There's nothing that says that an Imbued becomes a Bystander as soon as they take on a day job or think about anything other than the hunt.

I get the feeling that you're upset that people are no longer taking your WtA bait so you're now shitposting about HtR instead.

>>97063058
>I get the feeling that you're upset that people are no longer taking your WtA bait so you're now shitposting about HtR instead.

Yeah it's definitely him. There is some interesting things to discuss with HtR though, so we just gotta be careful and avoid his bait.

>>97060731
Imbued are based, anything to do with legit scitzokino is based beyond based.

Your eyes are open to the real world.
You know there is monsters outside lurking in the shadows at night. Said monsters only live to harm,dominate&be controlling towards humanity. Filthy parasites leeching off humanity, what will it take for all of humanity to wake up. To see the monsters standing right in front of them.
One day you get a massive headache. Oh god no not again your sanity has been slowly slipping lately. You are hearing a voice but its not in your head, it sounds real as if someone is behind you. Anon..... you see the world for what it is. Your love for humanity has been noticed for ages.

The time has finally come more warriors are needed.
Anon do you wish to fight the darkness, do you wish to purge evil from this world and would you do anything to rid the world of monsters.
I am not an auditory hallucination anon I am very much real, you can think of me you can call me a messenger.
I come here today anon to offer you salvation, to be the light in the darkness. You will not be fighting alone nor will you be powerless.
We will let you know when things are wrong, when reality is llying, we will shine light in the darkness, we will remove the masks the monsters hide behind.
You will hear our voices. You will see writing on the walls,in the air and on the floor that no one else can see. We will guild you our love will protect you.

As for what can just a human do, we will give you power we will Imbue you for battle. Conviction will be your strength&faith.
In this new life you will pick a creed&virtue to live by to shape your new life. This will allow you to unlock unnatural powers shinning bright light. This planet belongs to humanity, the time is now.

OHALSO voices wont stop you'll hear them more and more. Everywhere you look sentences in the air, following you flashing in your face if you ignore it. Compulsion will overtake you SCITZOKINO BABY

>>97063211
>This is what imbued have in their heads
This post makes guys like Bach look sane and rational

>>97063259
It’s a World of Darkness, anon. Being sane and rational in it makes you prey

>>97063058
>get the feeling that you're upset that people are no longer taking your WtA bait so you're now shitposting about HtR instead.
What gave it away? The blatant ignorance about the splat?

>>97063302
No, it just puts you outside of the rage of everyone and their mother because why would they bother with you?

>>97061960
>I don't imagine Hunters walk into a hospital looking to kill all the doctors just for a chance to kill ONE vampire
99% of doctors are sociopathic monsters with god complexes & view humanity as nothing but money,toys&puzzles. They have tricked society into thinking going to med-school makes you some 220iq follower of yakub.
Being a doctor means you are a literal god walking no levitating above mortals.

Its not like most doctors are in actuality fucking terrible, and for whatever insane reason. The degree-mill pseudo-community college they graduated from with their garbage bachelor degree. Well said degree-mill offers MD programs you too can go to med school! Was your GPA above 1.9(1.3 if a visible minority/woman), ACCEPTED! all for the low low price of 30k a semester plus 50k general fee!

Lazy fucking boomers refuse to update their skills learning anything new. Unless its passing very simple tests every couple of years. Constantly pushing shit onto other doctors because they are lazy as fuck.
Excuse always being I'M JUST A GP I CANT DO/SAY X. Treating all the young doctors like shit stressing them the fuck out. Has a fucking personal bible sized malpractice book, filled to the brim with the most inane retardation. You'd be amazed to realize this person is a doctor from the stupidity negligence and general lazy incompetence.
All while demanding at least 200k to be a GP in some hick town hospital.

Randomly killing doctors IN WOD is based and morally good.
AS LONG AS ITS PUBLIC HOSPITALS.
>!!!!***EVERY JEWISH HOSPITAL HAS A CAUL&LABYRINTH IN THE BASEMENT STAY FAR THE FUCK AWAY***!!!!

86% chance you are killing evil/parasite/monster skinwalking as a human.
Good doctors run off to the private sector once they finish up all their residency/postgraduate specialization. Which can easily be longer than med school &or bachelor&med school. If you wanna be like just a general pediatric surgeon with no specialties
Total Doctor(public) Death

>>97063350
Say that to the vampire stalking you

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>>97061949
You're bound to make some mistakes but that doesn't mean you should stop killing literal monsters. You killed one innocent person but killing that vampire could save 2,3 or more. When it comes to law enforcement...well, it's unfortunate but they should have listened to you and simp,y fucked off (they were probably: corrupt, compromised by monsters anyway)

>>97063377
If a vampire is stalking me I'm straight up asking who hurt them like that, like watching paint dry would be a blast compared to watching my boring ass.

>>97063410
Just kill as many people as you can and let God sort them out.

>>97063435
You never know when a Ventrue’s curse mandated specific prey is depressed 4chan users

>>97063452
Ventru embracing a Janny for the lols

>>97063259
>World of darkness
>any human who isn't a sleeper normalfag
>Not having very minor mental problems at the very least, like just for knowing shit goes bump in the night.
Let alone being a normal human hunter that due to losing a loved one/seeing a horrific murrder/etc etc. Caused them to open their real eyes. Ever since that day they have been slowly going completely fucking insane.
As in hmm you know I need more gun, oh I know *grabs 8 ga shotgun* an order a fuck load of brass shells online.

Insanity is your friend, without insanity how would one come up with /k/ tier 8 ga shells.

All one needs is blessed tungsten-silver(15:85 the tungsten is for added mass&strength) fragment coating(once it touches flesh,shit punches in an inch then cracks into a fuck load of tiny shards) with a sodium&potassium alloy aka NaK slug. NaK violently reacts with water exploding&burning on contact. Shit is very spicy.
A massive bullet shaped slug with the diameter tad bigger than a 1$ coin. 3.5" long weighting 2.5-4oz's thats like 2-3mm of tungsten silver filled with sodium&potassium because peace was never an option THE VIOLENCE HAS ESCALATED

So the next time you see a leech blood sucking corpse. You blast it with this 8 ga custom shell for teh lulz.
It'll drop to their knees screaming from the blessed shrapnel. It'll take a few seconds for the NaK to react with all the blood
However the best part is topkeks it wont all go bang at once. It'll totally be broken up a bit into pieces, I mean this does weigh a few oz's.
Causing the most horrific pain possible. Flesh burning from flame&holy flaming hissing metal chunks that are exploding&burning internally. Causing the wood to look like swiss cheese looks fine on the outside, covered in holes on the inside. All while also setting their skin/clothes on fire.

MENTAL ILLNESS IS YOUR FRIWED REACH HIGHER PLANES OF ENLIGHTENMENT BECOME ONE WITH THE COLLECTIVE UNCONSCIOUSNESS TAP INTO SAID POWER FOR AUTISM PROJECTS

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>>97063580
>without insanity how would one come up with /k/ tier 8 ga shells.
Insanity is the antithesis of order. Embrace perfect order and get perfect weapons

>>97062129
>>97062217
Thank you for the input, the politicking and intrigue parts of VtM feel intimidating coming from a more straightforward RPG history. I'm used to threads that really just stop there and the heroes move on to the next dungeon or town with its own problems. The fact that most VtM games tend to revolve around the same area and characters are something I still have to get used to. How much prep would you say is necessary when planning out adventures like this, because I'm afraid of getting too needlessly deep into each character or faction or backstory when it comes to both making NPCs relevant to the story AND integrating the PCs into the whole web too.
>>97062588
I think I'm on the same boat as you with the wait and see them get more involved in the Jyhad thing. Thankfully my players are very proactive and invested in the big picture stuff of the story, but that's kind of why I'm afraid that I won't be able to keep up with the scale of their long term plans.

>>97063634
What’s so special about the AS-115’s caliber?

>>97063634
My schizophrenia can make better weapons by channeling my True Faith in Samuel Colt
>>97063657
Yeah, it's hard don't worry. You might miss before you hit a home a home run trying to ST some of these games especially if you're going for higher effort style of planning. The average city is so big though you can probably set up a lot of dungeon like set pieces if it's more your style while you try to figure it out, and even then there's the neighboring area or you can run one of the pre-written modules to help you along. Good luck definitely, but murder mysteries are peak so it should be fun to plan

>>97063718
Is it a 7.62x39 or 7.62x51?

>>97063720
Normal Ture Faith is enough since it allows you to bless any weapon

>>97063634
The man's expression does not fill me with confidence.

>>97063754
He just needs to take it out for a spin. Mother's blessings are always deceptive at first

>>97063634
Nuh huh TUigger chaos is infinite ever changing it is our freewill humanities creative spark
Order is stagnation perfection is unimaginable inconceivably impossible

You fegguts are the biggest baddest fucking monsters on this great blue planet. You want everything to be grey shapeless no edges when something is viewed no thoughts goes into ones mind because it is bland artificial and lifeless. You wish to dominate mother nature, not to make her submit/reform her. But to completely & utterly destroy her. Finally replacing her with some techo-organic shit that infects everything. You want humanity to be "unshackled" from its oh so horrific collective unconsciousness & freewill. Everything must be uniform & the same in the shape of some gay pyramid. Riping the very soul away from humanity to turn us into nothing more than some binary hivemind.
Slaves to union for eternity building and dismantling our graves with life having no meaning. Because you savage kneegriod beasts claim humanity has embraced perfection and because of that entered nirvana.

FUCK THE TECHNOCRATIC UNION
EMBRACE CHAOS
LIVE BY LIBERTY FRIENDSHIP IS MAGIC
EVERYONE SHOULD HAVE ANIMAL BUDDIES(˵ ꒡3꒡˵)
⸂⸂⸜(രᴗര๑)⸝⸃⸃ FREE DRAGON PARTY FOR EVERYONE
(∩｀-´)⊃━ﾟ.*･｡ﾟ AUTISM BEAM GOOOOOOO EVERYONE TOUCH THE DRAGONS TAIL WIN A PRIZE (ٛ⁎꒪̕ॢ ˙̫ ꒪ٛ̕ॢ⁎) WHAT PRIZE WELL WIN AND FIND OUT ˛˛ƪ( ౪ ๑)و ̉ ̉ TOUCH THE TAIL SPIN ROUND AND ROUND °˖◝(0▿0)◜˖° OPEN YOUR EYES WIN A PRIZE (ﾉ◕ヮ◕)ﾉ*:･ﾟ ANIMAL BUDDIES FOR ALL ʕっ•ᴥ•ʔっ(ღ˘˘ღ)ʕ•̫͡•ʕ*̫͡*ʕ•͓͡•ʔ-̫͡-ʕ•̫͡•ʔ*̫͡*ʔ-̫͡-ʔ

(ʃƪ˶˘ ﻬ ˘˶)NEVER GONNA GIVE YOU UP ( •̀ᴗ•́ )(^ε^ ) NEVER GONNA LET YOU DOWN (ღ ･ิ◡･ิ)ε ･ิ ღ) NEVER GONNA SAY GOOD BYE (˘ω˘)˘ε˘˶ ) NEVER GONNA TURN AROUND AND BEAT YOU (* ＾)(ˆˆ)ε｀●)(＾ *)

>>97063780
How do you Marauders find time to post in between fighting Nephandi and trying to not explode?

>>97063794
Their madness does it. It's enthralling yo see it in action

>>97063794
Do NOT interact with reality criminals. Report any and all reality crime to the nearest union agent.

>>97063780
I am an agent of perfect stasis, perfect Clarity. You are gay and retarded and for that you must be destroyed.

>>97063731
No idea, I’m asking because I know very little about guns
>>97063754
He’s just tired, 5th raid on the facility this week alone

>>97063838
>Aluminum ammo
>7.62 (x39/51 who knows lol) of all calibers
Bullet made out of dogshit alloy chambered in an outdated caliber

>>97063780
>>97063794
>LIVE BY LIBERTY FRIENDSHIP IS MAGIC
>EVERYONE SHOULD HAVE ANIMAL BUDDIES(˵ ꒡3꒡˵)
>⸂⸂⸜(രᴗര๑)⸝⸃⸃ FREE DRAGON PARTY FOR EVERYONE
That's no marauder, that's a fucking changeling, probably spent too much time in the deep dreaming

>>97063853
Quick, call Him in

>>97063794
But anon exploding is fun?
you don't like tasting canary&fuchsia or seeing all the atom zap zap confetti popping behind your eyes and all in front of your vision.

Besides nephandi make the best bombs their asshurt&eternal seeth can be mixed with many concepts and sounds to cause a fuck huge chain reaction.

You ever see a Caul implode? the entrances crumples in on itself then starts turning all black like a swarm of flies spinning faster and faster into a double helix before folding into a dragon eating its tail and then it goes poooooooooooof. If you open your real eyes thats when you see the cool shit a bunch of wraiths ghouts and other spooky shit shooting everywhere in a sphere like a nuke went off with a big pretty shadow muchroom that tastes like a cross between RC cola and rattle snake maracas also //\ºoꍘoº/\\ SPIDERS EVERYWHERE //\〳 ᴼᴼ ౪ ᴼᴼ 〵/\\ running up from under the ground where the caul was big ass shadow spiders FUCKING EVERYWHERE there isnt a enought fire and magnets in the world to kill that man

Also causing paradox on nephandi is really fun/funny especially if you make it bounce off to their followers like the important ones they like. They tend to get really really asshurt when you do that, what with burning down all their "work" for a simple prank

>>97063856
I can't do it, made a deal with the Fae not to banality post
>>97063867
The Fae cocaine is strong here

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>>97063780
based

BORN TO P A R A D O X
WORLD IS A CAUL
鬼神 Avatar Storm 1999
I am Marauder man
410,757,864,530 DEAD TECHNOCRATS

>>97063853
I AINT NO N'WAH I AM A MAGICAL HAPPY MAN THAT SPREADS JOY WITH MY TRAVELING EXOTIC ZOO doooo be careful petting creatures you don't realize and please read the signs they are printed very clearly in Sumerian what species said creature will be
ALSO
٩( ᗒᗨᗕ )۶ ALL ARE WELCOME TO JOIN MY TRAVELING ZOO (.づ◡﹏◡)づ. NO NEED TO BE SAD
FOR LOOK IN MY HAT 且_(・-・) ITS (you) ʕTᴥTʔ THANK (you) FOR JOINING MY HUMAN* PETTING ZOO!!!!!!


(((φ(◎ロ◎;)φ))) But for the love of god whatever you do, never play a kazoo while in my zoo.
O̶͇͐̊̈́̏̓̐̀̋͗R̷̖̮̦̻͕̾̆͋̕͝ ̸̧̥̝͕̹̙̥̗̮̦̓̀̎̌͂̿̕͜Ȇ̴̥͔̓̀́̉́̾̋̈́̕̕L̴̞͔̗̗̘͔̱̗͙͙͚̮̦͉̀͜S̴̢̛̳̼̹̗͎͍͗̊͒̀̂̎̀̊̓͋̚͜͝E̸̡̛͚͇̮͉̬̯̘͑͒̔͌͊͝ ̵̨̧̮̟̺̼͚̎̔͑̚I̷̡̨͓̩̟̙̜̪̫̾̽̈́́̈́̓̀͒̍̈́̓̓̊͒̑͘̕T̶̡̛̺͇͔̪̰͓̣͍̱̗̝̯͕͈̟̐́͒͐͌̑͛̃̿̽̏̃͒́͝͝ ̶̨̛̣̺̝̫̜̮͉͓̝͙̳̘̫̰̺̈́͆͐́̑̀͊̏͊̃̈̈͊̀͝͝ͅŴ̷̡̛̞̝̺̃̚I̶̧̯̱͎͌̎̈͋̀͛̿̿̆͌̈͆̋͜Ĺ̷̢̡̼̖̜̍̎͊͑̈́̇̈́̈́͒̄͂̕̕L̸̛͙̦̈̓̑̄̾̽͂̊́̾͌̕͘͠ ̴̢̪̞̰̦͖̩̰̺̼̌͆̈́Ç̷̳͓̳͍̗̇͑̐̿̐̉̓̂̽͆̕Ơ̷̢̢̛͉̩̼̼̏̌̆̂́̀̇́̌̈́̕͠͝ͅM̷̨͚̘̹̦̤͎͔͇̃̓͆̀̑̏́̓E̵̱͕̦̥̜͚̥̗̞̝͉͑͘ ̵̢̰͒̊̏̓͑Ą̷̛͓͚̥̩̝͇͔̞̥̦͇͛̊̈͑͊̍͆N̶̡͇̥͍̝̺͍͉̩̤͙͖͉͎̮͗̾̂̋̈̂͌͒͒̇̓͠ͅͅD̸̻̠̮̪̰̥̰̤́̂ ̵͍̼̺̬̰̇͐̌̊̔͝F̵͇͓̭̰̦͇̜̱͐̂̐̄͛̈́̈́̍͋̐̎͠E̷̢̩̪͝É̸̢̛͍͓̤͈̯̥̦̜̿̇͋̾̓́ͅD̷͎̕͜ ̶̢̠̗̭̤̼̠̤̺͍̣̰̺̥͇͆͂̓̄͜Ó̴̩̰̙͎̗̒̊͐̄̀̉F̵̡̢̧̛̛̹̰̣͙̟̘̤̗̫̰͎̋̀̈́̈̊̉̒͒͆̓̌͊͗ͅF̶̼̝̪̣̻͉̜̻͚͓̟̍ ̸̧͓͖̻̽͌̓̀̈́͛͂͒͛̿͝Ý̵̢̖̰̩͎̳͓͚̥͍̹̭́̑̂̆̀͂̍͠O̸̡̙͍̱̭̯̯̪͚̖͚͙͂̆̀͑̾̓͒̈͊͛̽́́̑̚͝͝Ų̶͇̹͍̭̤̺̤̭̥̺̓̂̆̊͑̽͒͌̇́̿̒̕͘͝͝ͅ

Multiple reality breaches detected, Iterators have been notified, HIT marks supported by field agents are en route.

>>97063355
>>97063912
I see either the messengers are out in full force today or someone's fucking in the Umbra again

ONLY REAL NIGGAS WITH BANALITY 8+ ARE ALLOWED TO POST ITT

>>97064010
It could be both. You can never be sure with sleepers. That fucking xX_leet kill team_Xx is still a menace.

>>97063912
>I AM A MAGICAL HAPPY MAN THAT SPREADS JOY
So a changeling

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>>97063912
But...have you heard about the 2% infaltion?

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>>97063948
lol
lmao even
Pic related the door to my autism neet cave is always open. My friewnds are always hungry, and robots,cyborgs and other failed humans are their favourities type of metallic long-pig
I must say I do thank the union for covering such a huge part of the food bill.

DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA HOW MUCH A GOD DAMN WYVERN EATS EVERYDAY, because I dont Misses scalieskisses is a freerange dragon yes you are sweety(人´∀`*) because daddy loves you, you can eat whatever you want whenever you want.

mother of god

>>97064091
Average Marauder encounter in MtA

>>97063718
Firing a 7.62x51 CASELESS out of a tiny, plastic bullpup that has the fire rate of an MG42 is unhinged. Shot 1 will be accurate, shot 2 will be two feet above target, and 3-25 are going into the ceiling.

>>97064254
Sounds like a perfect opportunity for the cybernetic arm upgrades. Along with some leg and spine upgrades perhaps. It appears we gotta be solid and immobile to use Mom's best.

>>97064254
So, either Shinzui figured out a recoil dampener that makes the gun manageable or it’s only meant to be fired by garou on crinos form?

>>97064492
It's meant to be fired at Garou in Crinos specifically

>>97064535
Finally an answer to the BSD plague

>>97064492
I'd say it's more likely white wolf just had no real gun knowledge and just created the most "what people in the 80s and 90s thought future guns would be" meme weapon of all time, handwaving all the issues with "weavertech".

Interestingly enough, Cyberpunk 2020 has a lot of the same stuff going on. 7.62 making a comeback in standard, select-fire rifles. Bullpup everything. Dude caseless ammo lmao. It was just the style at the time, it seems.

>>97064687
You'd think Weaver tech would be shit like high power railguns or beam rifles

>>97064718
As the anon who made the original meme, that book also has straight up mech suits in it. Nothing gundam tier but those smaller mechs that kinda bridge the gap between power armor and mech.

>>97064732
I saw once that the book had damage tables for artillery and the like. Really goes to show the Garou are expected to just tank that stuff I played a bit of Earthblood, I saw the mechs though they were more like exoskeletons

>>97064550
sadly not the garou this is going to be fired at. it's mentioned that pentex actually bought some of these rifles for their first teams and that they now come with custom made silver bullets

in case your st just wants soldiers to just delete garou packs for some reason

>>97064732
Also had a VR set that let people into the Umbra, remote controlled robots, fertility drug that guarantees the child will be a garou (but is for all intents and purposes a metis)… Book of the Weaver is weird (in a fun way). I just wish it gave Shinzui Industries more than 2 paragraphs, especially given all the lore DNA got in the book

>>97064550
>Finally an answer to the BSD plague
>Bullets
>Not heavy metal salts and white phosphorus COMBINED in glass/plastic
You see the joys of willy pete is it'll burn away no matter what turn the water in the air into phosphoric acid as well as the smoke you breath in turning the water in your lungs acid eating shit away. But heavy metals when in their sodium form are fucking terrifying cuz you can hold mercury metal in your hands no problem. Holding the salts however or better yes the salts in a solution of water. You best go suck on a shotgun ASAP because the next 24 hours before you die. Are gonna be a very very bad time.

>>97064718
They have gyrojet pistols. Those were big in the 80s

>>97065047
60's anon the 60's as with all cool shit. They stopped making stuff in the late 70's. Tfw no belt fed gyrojet with good ole shaped depleted uranium

The question of how paradox works has become relevant in our game of Mage and I wanted you guys to give me your opinion (This is all my interpretation of the lore that I have stablished in our campaign so far):
So the way reality works in mage is by concensus, the world really was 6000 years old and created by supernatural entities, but that was before, by guiding the collective unconcious, the Technocracy has caused reality to be rewritten, and now reality works by much more consistent yet limiting and complex rules of physics, and has caused the past to be altered, to the point of making dinosaur bones replace dragon ones, and millenia old homo habilis bones replace more recent giant djinn skeletons.
On the other hand you have Paradox, when a Mage performs magic, it stays "up" so long as no sleeper sees it, and when they do, not only does it stop working, but negative "punitive" effects occur -BUT- the effect still "happened", this part of concensus reality is not retroactive.
What might be an interesting cause for the distinction?

Checking in from the last thread. Is anyone actually interested in a Hunter /schreck/ type thread? I was thinking doing it as a limited run this December.

Vigil primary but not exclusive if you wanna be a Leopold guy or be hunting an oWoD monster. One of Vigil's big strengths is it's so agnostic you can port whatever into it. Treated as the test run for a end to end encrypted deliberately decentralized hunter communication program. Think Signal for Hunters. Supernaturalfagging strongly discouraged.

Last thing I wanna do is clog up the board with another erroneous zombie general, so I want to check if more than a handful of people would actually be interested in something like that before I went ahead and launched it.

>>97065148
As long as you're ready for 80% of the posters to be supernatural beings who have infiltrated the thread and incessantly taunt the 20% that are actually hunters.

>>97065148
Sign me up. That's the one thread where you don't need to know the lore 100% to participate

>>97065118
Why isn't Reality slapping vulgar magic effects for the crime of existing? Just because sleepers aren't around in the present doesn't mean they weren't around in the past or won't be there in the future.
>>97065148
A test run in December sounds fun. Would this be for that idea of rotating threads? In any case, sounds nice enough on paper. Trying to get mages and imbued to shut up and be quiet will be hard though.

>>97064925
Yeah, they did Mom's corp pretty dirty. Still, can't complain about a new group of hunters being added.

>>97065118
It's simple, nothing pushes back against "concensus" reality, the changes are gradual as the consensus change is gradual.
Mages create a bubble of broken physics around them, which pushes back against consensus, and when observed by muggles, it pops, the resulting Rebound is called Paradox. You can avoid paradox by revealing the unreality of something gradually and making it seem more real at first glance so that it simply ceases to function, which is how technocrat sci-fi gadgets work.

>>97065169
TOTAL MONSTER DEATH THE ONLY HUNTERS CREED THAT MATTERS
Let them out themselves without using a VPN, nothing more funny that taking selfies of a vampire before staking him. While holding up a framed photo collage of all the shitposting they did going on and on how weak&pathetic humans are.
Make sure to stake em slowly so they understand why its happening, the frozen face of asshurtrage is totally worth it

>>97065376
RIP brave hunter. Your sacrifice won't be in vain and your wife will be taken care of.

>>97065418
>He's never teabagged a vampire placing his hairy balls right on its lips before awakening&staking its
Its even better if they're female, getting bitten in balls isnt that bad... just like when the pain shoots up your spine make sure you stake them. One time I came really hard after she bit down, thank god for crossbows.
Some people tho
>NOOOOOOO I NEVER WANT TO HUNT WITH YOU AGAIN YOUR SICK AND TWISTED THATS DANGEROUS YOUR INSANE
Youre not a real hunter unless you degrade these monsters every way you can ok.

>>97065467
huntershuntedhunted pentext recruited a new employee and bane host

>>97065525
>Libertine thinks he has legs to stand on
It's a wonder you and yours haven't been snapped up by demons. Then again you'd probably jump at the chance to get impregnated by a demon.

>>97065594
My first wife taught me that lesson, so I mean the next daemon better off more/better

Well it seems like there is actually some real interest. Depending on how I'm feeling I'll start the thread up some time this weekend (probably sunday), or on the first.

>>97065169
>>97065219
Hence the "supernaturalfagging strongly discouraged. /schreck/ managed to keep it to a minimum by just no-selling people who tried to go "mmm yes I am the technocrat I am so smart you silly leeches myes." Either don't engage or call them a LARPer and move on.

I'm not the guy who suggested a rotating thread, but if in the new year the thread appears to be losing steam/burnt out, I'd be happy to pass it on to someone who wanted to do a different splat.

>>97065189
Absolutely. If anything, knowing less lore is a boon. It's rooted in Vigil so you don't even need to be bound to "official" lore. By all means, hunt some weird local folklore creature.

>>97065676
I still think you'll run into a similar problem as the WtA thread, where people enjoy talking about WtA and laughing at werewolves more than they enjoy the prospect actually playing as the werewolves.
Except in the case of hunters, even if you have a rule of "please ignore supernatural faggotry," it'll probably still be 80% talking about other splats, just from a hunter perspective.

>>97065738
I'm fine with and would expect people to talk about vampires etc. from a Hunter's perspective. The only thing I'd want to avoid is half the thread being magefags or other supernaturalposters.

>>97065676
Idk much about vigil. I’ll give it a read and hopefully join in then

>>97065738
>it'll probably still be 80% talking about other splats, just from a hunter perspective.
Anon, what else are hunters supposed to talk about? Their favourite flavour of coke?

>>97065881
There's plenty of hunter factions in both WoD and CofD worth talking about, and plenty of complicated politics between them. Plus if it's overlapping between the two settings, there's a lot of fun imagining what a Society of Leopold hunter might think of Malleus Maleficarum hunters and so on. It'll be a shame if it does devolve into talking about Caine and the Impergium and the Consensus from a hunter's perspective.

>>97065881
>ywn talk /ck/ with your hunter buddies

>>97065738
>>97065881
We can't all be Abbey friends though that is tempting. Wouldn't surprise me if the would-be larpers get mistaken for Arcanum blowhards or AKD members. Gotta know how the relic works to store it properly and all that.

>>97065906
Faction politics are nice but it wouldn't be a hunter thread without someone discussing their latest/first hunt or how they have doubts as to the nature of their calling (if they're a fucking pussy). Bringing up knowledge that would be really and I mean really hard for a hunter to obtain is pretty stupid.

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Happy to hear someone intends on Abbeyposting.

>>97065906
I can imagine the society getting infected with pride because they were their first. Not much else. They might be wary that the Maleficarum may work with Lucifuge but, you know, those demon hunters do good work. Just don't look closely.

>>97065955
Look sometimes the Arcanum needs to step up their game. That's what attracted me to the Abbey and their not-shying away from pleasure. Cause if one can't find joy in the demonic orgies what's the point of the occult? Secrets? Ha

>>97065738
I don't really "mind" it on werewolf because it started from RPing over the supernatural, though I'd like to see if we get a 2.0 going we can remedy that. Part of the issue is just going
>muh Pentex
Isn't really all that useful for RP or lore
>>97065676
I think we just try to be a bit blatant on the rules that you can "try" to be a rare supernatural poster but you can't be very blatant on it or have to frame it from a Hunter perspective. You can engage with other splats but ideally it should be 90% Huntard post and occasionally I wouldn't mind something different tho ideally not a named post. Worst thing would be we have traditionalists vs technocrat arguments in the Hunter thread when they probably shouldn't know jack about it

>>97065148
As maybe the first guy to float the idea, a limited run thread a week after Thanksgiving would be pretty kino

>>97065118
Of like to think of Paradox as the equal and opposite reaction of Magic but through the Mage's understanding of reality and technical skill in obscuring the phenomena, casting, or target, one can mitigate that equal and opposite
Say shit like you wns to change the past, it would make you poof out, but if you carefully modify the entire past over a week to keep all the players relevant but slightly cause a change to perhaps position someone where they are easier to kill them then wouldn't make you poof

>>97065955
>Ashwood Abbey anons talking about how they keep Garou pets
Full circle
>>97065881
>>97065906
Maybe if we talk about lore of the setting we frame it around myths or obscure unreliable texts, so as to keep to the framing that Hunters don't have all the details

What would be the easiest way to obtain a DNA sample (hair, blood, etc) from annElder vampire without them catching on? All vampire powers & sorceries are on the table. Im thinking Movement of the Mind to essentially fly a hair over too you, but it kond of depends on if vampires loose the occasional hair, or if youd have to pluck it, & whether a vampire could sense their hair being plunked or somehow spot a hair drifting off slightly unnaturally

>>97066059
>Obfuscate on a ghoul while they sleep during the day
>Stalk them around for any any shedding or blood
Would be difficult, I imagine vampire hair and skin sheds off just the same from contact, no clue how'd you get saliva or other samples without actually engaging with the elder

>>97066059
Raiding their room/location they spend a lot of time in. Finding the remains of their food for spittle. The elder doesn't have to be present for you to lift such a thing from them.
You may want to consider they have arcane means of making such vectors inert and useless

>>97066009
What do you mean by
>muh Pentex

>>97066096
I suppose Werewolves have other things to talk about but 80% of the setting is about fighting off the Wyrm and Pentex. I'm sure there's other characters and stories one can make but if you don't talk about the supernatural as a werewolf I'd think you'd be stuck talking about factory explosions and killing corpos. Maybe the occasional kinfolk posting/posting about kinfolk. Just limited topics I feel without delving partially into dealing with other splats. Maybe Mages and Hunters can circumvent this since they usually have an actual life outside of what they do but a Garou's life is kind of secondary to attacking the Wyrm

>>97066148
So you don't think there's any meaningful discussion to be had about the Umbra or the spirits that dwell within it, or about the culture within a Garou's tribe or the politics between those tribes, or discussions over the Litany and the fine print of it, or theological debate regarding the nature of the Triat and Gaia, or interactions between auspices and the importance of one's auspice to one's identity, or how Garou should best look after their Kinfolk and whether that perspective is too patronising, or how to best help lupus and metis adapt to human society in order to operate within it when the mission calls for it, or interactions with the other Fera and the best methods of mending their broken connection to them, or when a Garou becomes too attached to human society for its own good and what limits should be imposed on indulging in human luxuries?

I think you're being pretty uncharitable towards WtA and that you might be uninterested in that particular game, if you boil the Garou down to one-dimensional factory wreckers and slayers of wage slaves.

>>97066389
No, but I think that sort of discussion might end up bridging into other splats rather easily if the last one was anything to go by. You are right though, maybe I am being a somewhat uncharitable towards it

>>97066430
I think that's a little like saying that /schreck/ is at risk of involving other splats if vampires talk about anything other than sucking blood. Seems really reductive to me.

>>97066075
Just hair would be enough, though I think it would be hard to get anywhere near an elders haven. Maybe with a pet wraith?

>>97066078
I don't need spit & vampires dont eat. I just need some hair or such for Asymmetrical Reproduction. Thinking of ways to make it work.

>>97066539
>Just hair would be enough
if they are a socialite, disguise yourself as the employee posted at the coat check

>>97066473
It may be yes
>>97066539
If anything a pet wraith may be even more liable to get you caught as elders accumulate arcane knowledge. Maybe if you had some sort of skilled thief as a ghoul or if you shook hands with rather rough glasses so as to steal some skin
>>97066597
This is a pretty neat idea but wouldn't an elder be able to see you? This might be something you have to pay off the coat check guy for

>>97066670
>glasses
I had meant gloves here

kinfolk women owe me sex for the good of Gaea

garou women owe me sex due for reparations from the Impergium

Which edition of vigil should i absorb into my brain with my eyes

>>97066749
The one with compacts and conspiracies

>>97066718
Maybe you should stop listening to Uncle Beats-his-kin

>>97066749
Either or. 1e has a lot more supplemental material than 2e but it isn't one of those games that had a radical overhaul between editions. The main difference is in mechanics. 2e added some more compacts and conspiracies, but so did every supplemental 1e book. If you want an absolutely exhaustive reading order I'd say
>HTV1e core
>Night Stalkers
>Spirit Slayers
>Witch Finders
>HTV2e core
>Tending the Flame

The latter two may be hard to find since Vigil 2e was a real latecomer, barely got out before Paradox finished strangling nWoD/CofD to death.

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>>97066718
Since have hit horny o'clock, what would be an interesting way to show a Revenant breeding camp?

>>97066766
I see, thanks

>>97066784
>Revenant breeding camp
Fertility clinic maybe? IVF or sperm bank replacements with revenants, or do you mean the more traditional sense of breeding camp?

lilin women owe me mind blowing sex to see what all the fuss is about.
>>97066784
Sex cult is a classic. Are you talking like actual hucow levels of breeding camp or just the concept?

>>97066766
Do you know which of the Vigil books have the Eden Covenant organization? The wiki has nothing and I'm curious to see if it's just another religious org

>>97066825
Pretty sure they're Tending the Flame, the 2e book for extra compacts and conspiracies. Basically, a televangelist took over a nascent compact and turned it into his little cult of personality.

Tending the Flame has a lot of fun groups like that. I'm a big fan of Project Nebula, a bunch of alien conspiracy theorists that somehow managed to reverse engineer "alien technology" into functional albeit unreliable gadgets. They even made a better energy weapon than the U.S. Government.

>>97066800
I had a image of Jeffrey Epstein's Island but with more permanent residents being used by the upper echelons of the families as a sort of neutral ground and experiment to see if they can shuffle some worthwhile traits from it.

>>97066764
He's the eldest Philodox in the whole state though.

>>97066869
Damn that's kind of interesting. There's a couple of religious cult compounds you might want to look into then, I know there was one where some dude insisted that he was the first guy that should have a go at each woman in the States before they all committed suicide, Jim Jones I think

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>>97066784
Underground ring of white supremacists (openly led or secretly manipulated by kindred overlord) running Lebensborn 2.0

>>97066886
>believing what he says
No he's not.
>>97066784
Make it corporate and incredibly detached from actual sex. This is about producing revenants! Not humans being little piggies rutting in the mud at the best of their beloved overlords.
They get one creampie with an hour lunch, usually administered via the seat their sitting on, and if it takes it takes. Meanwhile their counterparts are in the basement getting edged via their corporate uniform and then spending a third of their 15min lunch break getting milked while getting into and out of the milker takes up the remaining two thirds.

>>97066886
Beating his kin would be Philodox behavior

>>97066869
>Jeffrey Epstein's Island
That feels a bit too "current events" and might rub some people the wrong way.
How about twist on Sentinel Island natives? Or one of those Amazon jungle no-contact tribes? Population that's officially know to exist, and officially not to be approached by outside world under pretense of preserving their culture or protecting them from disease and pollution, secretly visited and groomed by master breeder (who might or might not present himself as their god)?

>>97066937
>That feels a bit too "current events" and might rub some people the wrong way.
Agree, but one of the best things about WoD if you have the right group. One of my favorite things in the chronicle I played in before was beating up Antifatard Beasts.

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>>97066784
Family band. Kept from becoming too inbred by involving some of their fans/groupies.

>>97067023
This is a fun idea

How realistic is the idea of a "monogamous" ghoul-vampire relationship?
I.e. the vampire exclusively feeds off one ghoul who is turn receives blood from that vampire. Assuming slim to no use of powers requiring the expenditure of blood.

>>97067102
Not really, the ghoul dies by anemia in a week or two.
Besides, deeply personal relationship with ghouls, aka Touchstones, are V5 cancer.
If you still wanna do it anyway, you could make it work as a compulsion that the vampire has to kill everyone else they feed from, expect for their special someone.

>>97067102
>>97067148
Exclusive feeding? Probably not unless you have some souped up ghoul with hypermetabolism because of Vicissitude. Monogamous in other senses maybe but the Vampire would have to supplement blood do as to not kill the ghoul, especially so in V5 with rouse checks as opposed to the more somewhat generous blood points

>>97066670
Engaging the Vessel of Transference maybe? I don't know how you might sneak it though

>>97066670
>wouldn't an elder be able to see you
if you pass off as kine, I don't think an elder would even look your way, especially if you keep your head down "respectfully"
note that you need to concentrate on someone to see their aura, it's not really instant, they wouldn't do that for a mere worker (unless they got some sort of premonition)
but your idea also works without any of these risks

>>97067102
>How realistic is the idea of a "monogamous" ghoul-vampire relationship?
There's a Ventrue in Chicago that in theory only feeds from one mortal. It's a hell of life for both parts. I think his name is Weatherbottom or something like that?

>>97067148
>>97067162
I'm no biologist but as long as the ghoul is getting iron and eating their wheaties I'd assume they can take *some* blood each night no?

>>97061969
>they were running at you with aggressive intent
https://youtu.be/Vr0bBuI8HKM

>>97067102
With Typhon's Brew you can multiply Vitae for the Ghoul. But the problem is with feeding on only one human. You could supplement it's Vitae with a LOT of amulets of Seal Shut the Gates of Blood

>>97067642
It takes you about a month to replace all the blood in your system, if you wanted to get technical and determine a rate, you end up feeling a bit anemic after getting your blood drawn sort of for that reason that it takes a while. Though the whole blood replacement isn't the same thing as actually producing more blood, granted. A little each day depends on how much and how much restraint the vamp has, but certainly there's a limit to how much you can eat from a guy to quench hunger before he dies. The issue here is more so at how much blood 1 point of blood/hunger is? I assumed 1 point is like a solid cup or so given by all the media in the setting, in Bloodlines I believe a standard blood back was 3 points though

>>97067728
A person has what, 10 blood points on average, and google says an average person has ~10 pints of blood

>>97067760
Yeah but your average dude is dying at 4-5 pints left in his body, so this is something that's more likely you'll deal with weekly if you wanted to exclusively feed on a ghoul, either your lick or your ghoul would be dead by the end of the first month

>>97067780
>>97067760
>>97067728
I could of sworn I read somewhere that the minimum amount of a herd you can feed on without health risks is three.

>>97067816
>Need a pint per point
>Your average oid is dying at 4 pints left (generous)
>Need 7 pints per week to not starve
>Assuming 3, that gives you 15 pints to chomp on safely in the roughly two weeks it would take for them to recover
This means you have 1 pint left over in a 2 week recovery of about 2.5 pints per week per human
Yeah that's math kinda checks out though this may be kind of math based around the result rather than the question

>>97067780
>>97067836
Maximum realism, the numbers are much worse. Assuming blood points are pints, at 5 left they might not instantly die but death would be highly likely without emergency medical treatment. 7 would be the lowest I'd call safe-ish if you gave them 60-90 days to recover after each drinking.

>>97068077
What if they were morbidly obese? Would they have more blood then?

>>97068150
It's magic. It's not about the actual volume. It's the percent of their life essence, or whatever. So a large or small person has the same amount parceled out in fractions of the total.

>>97068150
Yes but also >>97068163 this. More blood volume doesn't mean more blood points.

>>97068077
Damn, yeah not much of a chance for a Kindred to live off of a herd of three successfully

>>97066809
Given Dominate and Presence I was thinking Ba Sin Se levels of mind broken people. Like one of the servants raped to almost death and they thank them for that afterwards. Hucows would be neat too.

>>97066937
If I wanted something more "timeless" I would pull from the regiment of giants or the Polynesian and their use of children as social currency.

>>97060731
I love them. Wendell Delburton shot Lucifer.

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>>97059730
Drawfag here, with another Black Spiral sketch. I decided to go with two, and a big foul spillage of wyrmish maggots coming from a befouled screaming tree. Hope you like it!

>>97068350
Sorry, I meant three

What is the narrative reason why vampires would engage in the bureaucracy of sects? It seems like if your only goal in life is blood and you have all the means to do so, it's such an easy existence, barring vampire and clan weaknesses, so why complicate your life with mob politics or the jyhad?

>>97068446
The greatest enemies of vampires will always be other vampires.

>>97068446
To the Camarilla, an independent vampire who refuses to pay lip service to the Traditions is a threat to the Masquerade who has to be put down.
To the Sabbat, an independent vampire is a potential soldier of Caine who needs to be brought into the fold and help them fight against the hungering Antediluvians.

Any vampire who isn't a part of the Camarilla or the Sabbat is considered a potential enemy or a potential recruit by the Camarilla and the Sabbat and considering that most fledgelings are going to be embraced by a vampire who already belongs to the Camarilla or the Sabbat for that reason, good luck to the fledgeling who wants to try and escape the sect dynamic, their only chance of survival is to join the anti-sect sect, the Anarchs.

>>97068446
Blood is a need, not a want. Maybe they want a little, eh, spice in their undead life. Depending on how beastial you make the...Beast, and feeding, it could double as as a pseudo-hunt or duel. Get the blood pumping, that sort of thing.Cause you gotta remember, modern bureaucracy is relatively recent for a decent majority of them. Before then, it was a great game of politics.
Just fucking anything to fight the existential boredom. Why do you think immortals do anything they do outside of their needs?

>>97068446
A vampire that does nothing but drinks blood will very quickly degenerate into a wight.

>>97068446
Caine's curse upon the antideluvians. There's just this underlying need for vampires to fuck with each other.

Also, you usually become a vampire because your sire wants power, prestige or a tool. You're basically drafted into his bullshit, & the time between your debut & you finally getting a little bit of freedom means you've already dipped your toes in politics, which could fuck you over hard if you try to walk away. Either your rivals aren't going to be okay letting bygones be bygones, or your own allies won't let you defect

There's also the need for companionship. You don't want to spend your unlife all alone, you'll subconsciously need peers that share your condition lest you loose your framework of humanity.

So, you've usually become unknowingly drafted in a millenia long shadow war, you've been thrust into gang like mafia politics just to survive, you're incentivized to stay in it because you're constantly growing more & more distant to hu,an culture as the years stack up, & you'll be hunted & killed by enemies & allies if you run,& you & everyone else, have this low level impulse to fuck everyone over

>>97068446
>"Caine, though powerful you are, and marked of God, know you this: that any Childe you make will bear your curse, that any of your Progeny will forever walk in the Land of Nod, and fear flame and sun, drinking blood only and eating ashes only. And since they will carry their father's jealous seed, they will forever plot and fight amongst themselves. Doom not those of Adam's grandchildren who seek to walk in righteousness. Caine! Stay your dread Embrace!"
From Book of Nod
>And since they will carry their father's jealous seed, they will forever plot and fight amongst themselves

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>>97068538
>>97068503
>>97068499
I've seen posts that criticize portraying the masquerade as "vampire mafia" as a poor description of the nuance but the similarities look closer than I thought. Regardless of how willing or able you are in the criminal life, if someone decides you're in this shit you really are gonna be in this shit and you're either gonna decide to become the biggest baddest vampire shot caller or you're fucking dusted.

>>97068609
You could also view it like joining a prison gang. You kind of have to to survive

>>97068609
it's more like vampire culture war (the kind where people straight up murder each other)

I am slowly introducing a friend to the World of Darkness. I was originally planning on running the Chronicles of Darkness but she seems to enjoy the meta-plot, worldbuilding, along with the edgy 90s attitude. She chose Werewolf: the Apocalypse, yet claims that she is not a furry.

>>97068652
Is she white? Anyway, okay? Was this the same one that was interested in Forsaken the last time you brought this up?

>>97068652
>She
yjk
Anyway, can't blame here WtA is very cool and rather combat heavy rpg player friendly
I wish I could have inducted my friends with something that isn't VtM though. Good luck anon
>>97068609
It's got elements of vampire mafia yeah but it's also sort of like a type of cultural/political distinction among a very spread micronation, technically two micronations and a bunch of contrarians

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>>97068609
Make no mistake brother, they design the camarilla to break men like us.

>>97068652
Didn't you post this a few threads ago?

Can a Changeling permanently cure a vampire if they score 10 successes on Naming 5: Reweaving?

>>97068697
Where is the white supremacist kindred political group?

>>97068710
We just don't have any nogames. They tend to be big targets and that's bad for business.

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>>97065955
https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Hunter:_The_Vigil#Compacts
>The Union - Working-class hunters who trace their heritage back to the labor movements of the 20th century.
They would be the perfect adversaries of America's vampire millionaires.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9V4DxMGlWhU

>>97068714
Unfortunate
>>97068715
I should probably be reading the vigil books

>>97068656
>>97068702
Yes. We both have A.D.H.D., so it may be a while before we ever play it, but at least we can info-dump on each other.

>>97068738
and yet another fan of WtA is born who will not play it and talk about how Kinfolk deserve to be abused or something just kidding, hope you can run a game sometime

>>97068710
Some Blood Brother circles go for "skinhead" stylisation, but those are pretty small player on the grand scale of kindred politics.

>>97068710
The Southern Lords. They're a quasi-rogue branch of the Camarilla made up of Confederate loyalists who go on about the southern plantations in a similar manner to how the Brujah go on about Carthage.

>>97068852
>>97068760
very based

>>97066928
That sounds like a good comedic angle.

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>>97068710
Subsect of the Brujah.

>>97065467
>>97065955
What is wrong with hunters?

>>97069580
What's wrong with people who dedicate their lives to killing other people, particularly a group of people that blend into the general populace and require a lot of effort to distinguish from the masses?

Surely that won't cause any mental illness at any point.

>>97068446
>What is the narrative reason why vampires would engage in the bureaucracy of sects?

You don't need any mystical compulsion of the Jyhad to explain this one. It's the same reason why humans engage in bullshit bureaucracy and politics. Because in a conflict at scale, the side that has an organized and unified front holds a massive advantage. Are their drawbacks, especially for the individual, of being part of a larger hole? Yes. But going solo, especially when you're young, is a great way to get squashed like a bug by pretty much anyone else. And then when it's 300 years later and you might actually have the power to go solo, you're now invested and entrenched within your vampire government.

Before the sects as we know them, vampires were basically organized into petty kingdoms held together by the force of will of whatever big dick vampire was in the region. Clan loyalty mattered somewhat, but less than you might think. Though they typically aped the trappings of then contemporary mortal governments, they were all practically either cults of personality or petty warlord kingdoms. You swear your service to Duguth the Malevolent and you get the privilege of not being diablerized, now go back to running your castle town. When this system finally collapsed under the weight of change in the mortal world, there was a period of unprecedented anarchy followed by the formation of the sects. Vampires finally moved on from the most unga bunga system of governance.

Unless both sects totally collapsed, I don't see a return to basic tribal politics any time in the future for them.

>>97069611
>Surely that won't cause any mental illness at any point.
Skill issue.

>>97068350
Looking cool!

>>97069680
Three cheers for the people who are able to hold on to their humanity and morality despite ending the lives of others, but not everyone's built that way.

>>97069744
>Three cheers for the people who are able to hold on to their humanity and morality despite ending the lives of others
Who needs those anyway?

Is the Astral Plane used by Auspex the Shadowlands or the Penumbra?

And do Presence and Dominate affect ghosts?

Does the Bardo power that allows you to create Pillars of Osiris make frenzy harder just by knowing the power, or could you avoid the "Beast lashes out" part by never actually making a Pillar and only using the power as a step on the way to higher Bardo?

>>97069611
>killing other people
I wouldn't exactly call them "people"

>>97069846
Supernatural splats aren't human (at least not any more) but they have all of the philosophical prerequisites of personhood. Vampires, werewolves, mages and so on are all people.

>>97069831
1-Penumbra
2-IIRC, Presence affects both Ghosts and Spirits.
In my table, Dominate doesn't affect ghosts, you need proper Necromancy. I'm not sure if that's a house rule.

>>97069744
>hold on to their morality
Until their Hunting addiction interferes with their job and suddenly the schizophrenia starts to kick in

>>97069856
>Mages
Are insane entities who will torture and experiment on you for a crumb of magical understanding really people? I suppose they have an independent personality but they're also pretty much an ayy lmao depending on the mage. Some like Demons or Lupus Garou were never really "people" to begin with

>>97069877
You have a really weird perception of the World of Darkness and/or a really weird interpretation of personhood.

>The recurring events must be relatively benign, insofar as nothing noteworthy happens or nothing happens that would demand the victim’s immediate action.
How "relatively benign" do the events targeted by the Recurring Contemplation temporis power need to be? Would a memory where the target is offended but there is no threat qualify, to try to trick them into frenzy with no visible cause by being insulted over and over within their own mind?

>>97059730

>>97069877
>Are insane entities who will torture and experiment on you for a crumb of magical understanding
But enough about the sneeditions

>>97069611
Once you get past the psychological barrier of "They look like me" it's a lot easier to do your hunting. You can bet that most of your targets are truly deserving of death so you're actually doing a good thing. If only everyone else knew the truth...

>>97069611
The average /pol/tard is one schizo thought away from shooting up a crowd of people whose skin is a darker shade than them. Do you really think it's hard to kill something that drinks blood, can perform weird supernatural magic shit, and basically have an incompatible moral compass to humanity?

>>97069965
>basically have an incompatible moral compass to humanity?
Their moral compass is literally called Humanity.

>>97069856
>but they have all of the philosophical prerequisites of personhood. Vampires, werewolves, mages and so on are all people.

This is a worthwhile distinction. You could even go so far as to say that if they meet the pre-requisites of personhood, they should be considered human even if they are not homo sapiens. The primary argument against supernatural personhood is if one can establish that something about the creature's supernatural condition renders it devoid of free will and/or moral agency. Which is rocky enough to determine with mortals.

Of course, here's the kicker. Personhood does not immediately mean you should be treated with kid's gloves. In my last Hunter game, my character essentially made the argument for why Hunters are correct do to what they do.
>No court in the land could or would put a vampire or demon on trial.
>Even if one of their cultists were to be put on trial, they would likely not be tried for the full extent of their crimes.
>As the law is incapable of properly addressing the crimes of the paranormal, vigilantism is necessary to redress these affronts to God and decent folk alike.
>Due to their powers, killing (which is itself already valid against your fellow man under the right circumstances) is often necessary. As they pose an active threat in the first place, and it makes imprisonment not viable.

This character was also from 1800s Appalachia so his definition of legitimate justice was very community based and retribution driven in the first place.

>>97069968
The path of humanity is a LARP, a facsimile, an emulation of what they believe humanity is. It serves to blend in with the prey and trick them, or trick the beast so it doesn't go apeshit. The fact that mechanically it has a sliding scale implies that you can LARP so much that you make an unrealistic idealized version of a human if you go above the average threshold, and you can LARP so poorly that you become this uncanny valley creature divorced from everything that humans expect from another person. It's not an actual moral compass per se in that you developed it over time experiencing the world, reflecting on your values etc. it's more like a checklist you constantly internalize or else you get assuming direct control'd by the beast.

>>97069968
>>97070010
I find it interesting how Masquerade and Requiem have different interpretations of the same concept.

>>97069982
Thank you for actually engaging with the concept of personhood, instead of disregarding it entirely and just going "not human = not a person" like most of this thread.

>>97069884
>to try to trick them into frenzy with no visible cause by being insulted over and over within their own mind
they relive the thing entirely as the memory happened, they aren't in a time loop groundhog day style, so even if it qualified you couldn't induce frenzy in your target

>>97070091
Yeah, but I'm not sure why one implies the other?

>A vampire with this power may trap a target’s mind into reviewing a set of events over and over until interrupted.
Target an aggravating event and have them replay it over and over until they lose their temper.

Probably a bad idea since it's obvious to the target even if everyone else things they frenzied out of nowhere (thus creating a grudge), but I don't see the issue you mention.

>>97070172
>Target an aggravating event
you already answered that in your first post

>>97070010
>It's not an actual moral compass per se in that you developed it over time experiencing the world, reflecting on your values etc.
...But it is? It's just that in most cases it's based on your values before becoming (and then adapted to your new experiences since all Roads are broad)

Roads are moral compasses, vampires just have the issue that it's hard for them to make a brand new moral compass due to the Beast's influence (thus the usual need of a teacher when switching morality). And the Via Humanitatis is the moral compass that follows the moral compass of humans: if you have high Humanity you are the equivalent of a very moral human, if you have low Humanity you are the equivalent of an immoral human, and it's just when you have very low Humanity that you become inhuman.

>>97070076
No problem. I like that kind of stuff. One of my favorite moments in that chronicle was my character learning his old buddy Cassius was a D'habi revenant and active demon worshipper. The best part was the ST didn't hit us with a cheap "ahaha I hate you all and want to sacrifice you!" Right before his family ambushed us, he was desperately trying to find proof that my character was not in fact a Hunter and this whole thing was a misunderstanding. After they locked us in their basement to feed their vampire grandpa, he went to his room to drink himself into a stupor out of shame for betraying his friends. By the end of the session, where we turned the tables and wiped the whole family out, it was my character who was feeling like shit, standing over the body of one of his closest friends.

Don't get me wrong, I like a good "Humans vs. ontologically evil monsters" plot, but there are monsters for that kind of stuff. Don't do the painfully human ones a disservice by just lumping them in with the likes of Banes, Inferno Demons, etc.

>>97069843
I think the whole "forever makes Frenzy harder" part is bunk. Sure maybe for a while, but at some point you gotta reacclimate

>>97070021
Not sure how it was in 1e, but in CofD 2e all the different morality meters actually show how healthy the soul is, so it's definitely not a LARP there. Even humans can lose their soul if they commit too many evil acts, like Hunter 2e states that's what happens to Slashers.

In a hypothetical whiteroom nogames scenario where you ran dark ages into final nights with the same characters, what year would you proc gehenna?

>>97069580
Sometimes you have to become a monster to hunt them

>>97070198
>Via Humanitatis is the moral compass that follows the moral compass of humans
no
Humanity is the simplest way to deny the beast without even a modest understanding of it
you simply deny yourself

>>97069856
This. Hunting something that isn't a literal evil entity is way better because of the moral dilemma it could pose. There isn't a scenario where everything should be a mindless demon.

>>97070374
1e handled it pretty much like Masquerade, where Humanity is how well you can delude yourself into being human, or rather delude yourself into thinking you can relate to humans. In 2e every vampire has a sort of facture in their soul, or maybe a division like the lobes of the brain, between the Beast and the Man. They in theory should work together, the Beast driving the vampire to action and protecting against immediate threats while the Man plans ahead and protects against long-term dangers. In practice it's a tug-of-war where each side fights for dominance over the vampire's affairs. In truth neither can exist without the other without the vampire self-destructing sooner rather than later.

>Even humans can lose their soul if they commit too many evil acts, like Hunter 2e states that's what happens to Slashers.
Hunter 1e operated under that conceit too, after all Slasher is a 1e supplement.

>>97070394
Either 2000 (missed opportunity to gehenna right at the new millenium AND I get to dodge a lot of the shitty late revised metaplot) or 2050+ for cyberpunk shenanigans right before the end.

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>>97068350
Looking forward to seeing it done

>>97070394
Should be up to the players to determine how fucked the want the world to be

>>97070394
It'd be medium gehennas/tojs that denote the approach and dawning of a new epoch.
First vulgar one coincides with the Great War. The next one would be more subtle around the 1960s.
Y2k as the second vulgar gehenna.
2020s for the second subtle tojs.
Maybe 2070 or 2099 for the final vulgar gehenna with 2130 being the penultimate and last subtle one.
The final finale would be in the dusk of the 22nd century and will usher in its successor via the subsumation of an emanation.

>>97069883
He didn't say they weren't persons, he said they aren't people. And he's arguably right. Many are absolutely inhuman.

>>97070541
I get vampires, kind of, but how are the other splats inhuman?

Best sources to read for Kings in Shadow (the Lasombra with Humanity in the Sabbat) information?

>>97070550
Mages are all utterly insane and devoid of morality, Garou are monstrous ragetards who kill everyone around them at the slightest irritation, changelings are a mystical mind virus that comes with a bundle of mental illnesses, demons were never human at any point in their existence and so on.

>>97070592
>ragetards
Opinion discarded

>>97070394
I would run a secret tally of thinbloods & active antis & such, & depending on how things go & what the players do to effect these hidden numbers once the tipping point happens Gehenna happens. Or if they do things to interest Caine

>>97070550
Let's see:
>Changelings
Literal creatures from a different dimension that inhabit a human body
>Werewolves
No normal human is capable of turning into a dog / really big bipedal dog (not to mention other powers)
>Demons
Never human to begin with
>Wraith
Used to be human at one point but not anymore
>Mages
I'm willing to say that mages are human since every sleeper could (in theory) awaken their avatar some day. Are they amoral? Sometimes but so are many ordinary humans. They could stop being seen as human once they use their magic to do something like never age or change their appearance on a whim.

>>97070690
I was asking about inhumanity of mindset.

>>97070592
>Mages devoid of logic
Not quite, they just don't function along the human morality for the most part as to them understanding magic better is the most crucial thing. This doesn't mean they're inhuman monsters though, they aren't going to capture and torture normies for funsies unless they belong to some insane people tradition
The only one here that's true is that Demons were never truly human to begin with until they begin to seek redemption in understanding humanity. One could argue that this makes them the most human of the splats, as they seek to become more human than the humans
Anyway, it doesn't actually matter as HtR supernatural are less complex than gameline supernaturals but the games still try to point out that there's an underlying current of humanity with the enemies
>Kindred nigga obsessed with his former passions is both a patron of the arts and a guy running a human food farm in a theater
>Werewolf driven mad by the first change kills people and tries to self-isolate so as to not lose control and kill more until (you) show up
>Mage runs an orphan research lab for his magic but the orphans were probably going to die in the shit hole asian country he stole them from to organ harvesting
Not outright sympathetic, these are all bad people, but they're sympathetic enough where there's a moral choice to put them down or try redeeming them

>>97070550
Changelings are literally nonhuman, same with demons, mages & Mummies might seem human but they are beholden to strange powers & rules that leave them alien, vampires are monstrous blood suckers, garou are (not so) former humanity genociders that can barely control themselves at the best of times & almost always resort to violence, wraith are dead mockeries of humans, what's left?

>>97070690
>Changelings
Actually they're more like a human and fae soul cohabiting a flesh rental
>Woofs
Spirit DNA shenanigans
>Wraith
Still a human soul unless they turn into specters
>Mages
Wizards, no sense of right and wrong along the shotgun axis

I have come to realize the male Garou's options are to cum in the kinfolk or to get cummed in by an Ahroun. No wonder they're so cranky

>>97070592
Some mages explicitly get their magic from a paradigm where morality makes you powerful, you're dumb.

>>97070746
>Some mages
And most don't so your point is moot.

>>97070711
Can you point out the humanity of mages, werewolves, changelings, demons, wraiths, or even vampires? Even vampires are basically just walking bloodsucking optimisation flowcharts who occasionally delude themselves into thinking that they still care about anything other than sucking blood, they're not people, they have no free will and they're delusional if they think otherwise

>>97070711
Changelings could be see as an example of blue-and-orange morality

>>97070778
So drug addicts aren't people according to you? Should we lynch your uncle because he has one pint too many at the pub? Should we throw grandma in a barbecue pit and light her on fire because she accidentally got hooked on oxycontin back in the day?

>>97070769
Most mages are regular humans. Plenty of sleepers have the same paradigm as mages do, they're just not awakened.

>>97070745
>or

>>97070791
If people don't have the mental fortitude to resist addiction then yeah, they kind of deserve whatever fate they end up with

>>97070711
That depends entirely on the individual monster you come across. A thin-blood could be very human or while some elder may be your average vampire stereotype. Mages migh do whacky shit with you for the sake of it or they can use their powers to help the average man. Let's be honest, if all vampires were wiped out it'd be a net positive for all beings in the universe.

>>97070745
Gaia’s into bara, she made garou reproduction the way it is so they’d be forced into gay sex to safely fuck in crinos form

>>97070807
>inhuman anon thinks other people are inhuman
many such cases

>>97070745
>WtA fans try not to be gay challenge: Impossible

>>97070778
Vampires literally have to feed in the same what you have to eat so that you don't die, they're just supernaturally compelled towards frenzy by it instead of just irrationality because
>Caine is a dick lol
Everyone else is still human-adjacent in that they have thoughts and feelings and the like, they're just an unfortunate conscript into an occult war they don't and probably never will understand, or in the case of Wraiths sent to the fuck off depression plane by forced and mechanics they don't understand when some Roman guy shows up and says
>Spaghetti et carnes bubulae, nunc servus es
Yeah you'd be pretty mad too and use the cool new spooky magic you get to fuck with mortals in your spare time do that you can fight the new voice in your head telling you to kill your still living family and total your prized possession(some shitty baseball jersey your dad got you)

What does "inhuman" really look like in game? The splats commonly reference stuff like behaviors being alien from human sensibilities etc. but I'm guessing that it's a bit beyond than how we would typically think of maybe sociopaths or psychopaths??

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>>97070807
>-t.