Why is the last church hated for pushing fedora atheism, when it's a deconstruction of how fedora atheism became more fanatical than the religions it hated?
>>97066247Because the author is a fedora-tipping gaytheist more fanatical than the religion he hates. This isn't to say the Last Church is terrible, it's actually brilliant imo, but McNeill either took up huffing paint after he wrote it, or it's a monkey with a typewriter situation. The Emperor's arguments are hilariously weak because of the context of the emperor in the middle of a planet-wide genocide, and Uriah actually calls him out once about it. I think McNeill intended the Emperor to seem more intelligent, but since he was working backwards in the 40k timeline, we already know the outcome, and why the Emperor is wrong, making Uriah's case stronger.
>>97066247Because it only becomes that way by being so inept at pushing fedora atheism.
>>97066247>fedora atheism became more fanatical than the religions it hated?when we get the fedora caste system and the fedora crusades we can talk
>>97066442This is the exact retardation I'm talking about. The Emperor brings up the Crusades, and Inquisition as examples of how religion is bad and destructive to humanity, while Major Bloodfuck the Omnicider stand guard outside. The Last Church would have been more poignant if it wasn't a 40k book, and just its own story. But because it relies on the readers knowing what a Thunder Warrior is, and that it's set at the end stages of the Unification Wars, it fails, and becomes instead a scathing critique of the Emperor.
>>97066442>when we get the fedora caste system and the fedora crusades we can talkAtheists have killed more people than diests,or are you going to pull out the old "nuhuh, it wasn't real communism, it was a cult of personality!"
>>97066553Unpossible considering the time scale. You're never escaping from your death toll theist.
>>97066553How many people have been killed in the name of atheism? Communism isn't atheism, you know.
>>97066247everyone is england is a fart sniffing atheist homofaggot that licks muslim anus
>>97066946>disbands all religion, destroys their temples and kills their worshippersit literally is though
>>97066247This is because it's very poorly written. I feel Dan Abnett, ADB or John French could have written an EXCELLENT story.Graham McNeil was simply not up to the task, and I'm deeply embarrassed people keep quoting it as an atheist story. If I was an atheist, I wouldn't want that shit representating me.
>>97066384McNeill still has that comment on record about how the Emperor is supposed to be right, but wrong whereas Uriah is supposed to be wrong but right. At the end of the day the Emperor is correct in every assertion he makes, even when he says that unlike everyone else he knows for complete certain he's right, and Uriah can't disagree with him on it, but can still call the Emperor out for brushing aside the cost of what he's doing. Uriah himself says to the Emperor's dream of a united and supreme mankind "I hope you will achieve it, but I can't in good conscience be a part of it".In short, yeah it probably is a monkey at a typewriter situation if we're perfectly honest.
>>97067125Theists did that all the fucking time throughout history. Communists did it because it was a non-party power structure, not because they hated le jesus.
>>97067420They did it specifically because communism was run by jews like Yagoda and Lenin who wanted to own the orthodox chuds.
>look at religious violence >hidden material cause
>>97066247>Why is the last church hated for pushing fedora atheismI don't hate it for that. I hate it because when you have a character of this magnitude at an event of this much symbolic import, it had damned well better be one of the greatest theological works of all time. And nobody at Black Library will ever be able to pull that off, so much like the rest of the Horus Heresy, they really shouldn't have tried in the first place.
>>97067420commies did it because they needed absolute control on the population and weren't smart enough to implement it through mandates upon the religions themselves like the chinese are currently doing
>>97067555Yes, that's what I said.
>>97066553Islamic conquests and subsequent eradication of non believers alone have led to the direct slaughter of at least 300 to 400 million people. Keep in mind that these happened mostly when the world population was stuck around half a billion.
>>97067139The Emperor with his great points such as>If heaven exist, why people sad when their friends die?
>>97067420>Anti-theism and atheism is the same thingNo it's not?
>>97066247It's kinda bullshit because the priest sees the emperor and the first thing that happens is he immediately has his foundational event that made him a believer invalidated because his perception of what his god was just tuned out to be the emperor the whole time.Them the emperor sits down and throws a bunch of limp arguments at him akin to the classic "If God exist why bad thing happen? :))" Which is baby's first fedora atheist argument.Big E is an "atheist" despite the fact he literally exists in a setting with demon manifestations, psychics, and no less than 7 gods, and all of this just kinda words. Chaos isn't some realm made of le science that can even be reasonably explained or fucked with by mortal technology. The fact is that he's not really an atheist, he was in fact made by the power of a bunch of Babylonian shamans, he uses atheism as a utility and tool because he thinks it weakens chaos, and maybe it does, but that doesn't matter because it means the emperor's claims are a LIE. He doesn't even actually believe what he is saying, he's making some disingenuous claims because he "Knows Better" about what's good for humanity instead of just telling people the truth. Do you know what that is? A DECEIT!His arguments are hollow not because they're bad, but because it's literally, in every shape and form, trickery that he never intends to be honest about.Why should you believe him?Why would you believe him?Why is it okay for him alone to lie to ALL of humanity for their own good?FAITH IS THE HUMAN TRAIT, IT'S THE TRAIT THAT MAKES US WHAT WE ARE, SO WHERE IS HIS? THIS PSYCHIC CONSTRUCT THAT LOOKS LIKE A MAN?HE DOESN'T BELIEVE IN HUMANITY, IF HE DID HE WOULD ACT LIKE IT.EVEN AN ANIMAL CAN LOVE.ONLY A MAN CAN BELIEVE.HE ISN'T ONE OF US!
>>97067125Meanwhile all communist countries on earth are very religious.
>>97067125You can be christian and communist, you know. It's not even hard.
>>97068646Argument from evil does deboonk omnipotent and omnibenevolent gods, tho. It does nothing to indifferent deist and even malicious gods, but it doesn't try to.
>>97067125Iconoclasm will be afflicted upon any minority faith that is inconvenient to its rulers.
>>97067420>not because they hated le jesus.Haha, yeah, I am sure that the fact that Communism was created by, pushed by, and ruled by people that uniquely hate Europeans and Christians is just a simple cohencidence.
>>97068727>>97067555
>>97068737Sure, it's not hard if you don't care about the being Christian part. Or being a revisionist.You basically have to be a heretic to both sides in order to do it. But the communists will accept you because they'll just make sure to kill you only after the revolution.
>>97068751>>97068757Be less american
>>97066384Yeah McNeill is a literal Richard Dawkins fanboy. If he wrote the book so that Uriah was right, it was by accident.
The emperor shouldn't even have a single fully canon line of dialogue and instead they have him getting into "prove me wrong!" campus debates.
>>97068768you don't even know what communism isretardprobably a liberal arts major
>>97068782I think Ian Watson unironically did a great job in his scene where Draco directly talks to the Emperor. The fact that it's just of a bunch of fragmented shards seemingly with their own personalities helps to conceal the larger-than-life figure of the true Emperor before his shattering. There's a reason that scene was basically used as the blueprint for Guilliman's meeting with the Throne Emperor.But yeah this book sucked
>>97068768t. American telling others to be less American.I'm referring to the anathematization of Communism, the Soviet Government and the Sergianist hierarchy (and by extension the modern 'Moscow Patriarchate') by the Russian Catacomb Church.
>>97068768I am Swedish, gayboy.
>>97068743You can also give ground on "omnipotent" and scale back to just a "maximally powerful" god to get around the problem of evil.
>>97068817Be less american
>>97068757Christian faith and communism are no harder to fit together than christian faith and anti-slavery. >b-but muh revisionism!Yes. Anti-slavery was a revisionist position(or "heretics" as you put it) and today you have relatively hard time finding devout christians who are pro-slavery.
>>97068932So why call him god?
>>97068945Spamming you retard.>>97068646It’s hard trying to tell people about how legitimately genuinely bad of a person the Emperor is. You try to tell this shit to them but they’re like “He’s still the best hope we have against etc etc” it’s maddening.
>>97068960For the same reason flawed Olympians are gods.
>>97068953>you have relatively hard time finding devout christians who are pro-slavery.
>>97068960God is a title, generally relating to spiritual beings with abilities or responsibilities a human would consider praying to them over.Lord is a title referring to someone with authority.YHWH is both a god and a lord, and prefers to be referred to by titles.However, being omnipotent is significantly above the minimum requirements for either title, even in a situation where only one god actually exists, due to the linguistics of those titles.If your question is instead "why worship a less than omnipotent being?" I would say that power alone is a pretty lousy measure of who deserves your respect. Indeed, demanding worship for no reason but power is tyranny.
>>97066247How did it affect your last game of warhammer 40k? Please be detailed and specific.
>>97068953They are impossible to fit together.You only only fit them together if you neither care about being Actually Christian, or care about being Actually Communist.If you're Actually Christian, you believe the earth is 7500 years old created by God with specific purpose, the world ontologically broke through the Fall. Jesus rose from the dead to fix the world and human nature through his resurrection. Christians reject the world in favour of deification through eating Christ's flesh and blood, and if you're not in political power, to accept being persecuted and martyred for your faith. All of human history is waiting for an endpoint where the Anti-Christ takes over the world through a global tyranny, when Christianity is at its lowest point.If you're Actually Communist, you believe that the earth is gorillions of years old and you and everything in it are a product of material dialectics through evolution, that all of human history is dialectically moving towards an endpoint of communism, which Marx and his contemporaries came up with and are the best ideas for a materially just society. and that it is your duty to actively forment bloody revolution against every non-communist system, through any and all means necessary. All of human history is waiting for an endpoint in which Actual Communism is implemented on Earth, because this is the ideologically correct system to reach the theoretical endpoint of evolutionary perfection.There is literally no reconciling them unless you are either completely ignorant of Actual Christianity and have no intention of being one, and completely ignorant of Actual Communism and have no intention of being one.Rev 3:15-16 "I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot. So since you are lukewarm and neither cold nor hot, I will spit you out of my mouth."God can do something with Saul and turn him into St Paul because he actually had the balls to hate Christianity.
>>97069087>If you're Actually CatholicFTFY
>>97069139I'm Orthodox, not Catholic. Catholicism at least tries to seriously be Actually Christian, because "pick up the bible and just start making shit up" has literally no hope of ever being Actually Christian. Everyone who tries to seriously be Actually Christian looks into the history of what the early Church believed, including the immediate successors of the Apostles, of which we have writings and historical record of, and they believe nothing like what modern Protestants believe.If you believe in "Just make some shit up"-ism, it's guaranteed to be false. This is why serious Marxists talk disparagingly about revisionism, ie Communist heresy, because they know that just Making Shit Up isn't any way to be serious about what you believe.
>>97067555Chinks aren't smart about it, they are just re-using a well-tested system dating all the way back to Tang dynasty.Mao was a clueless idiot, but he did study history. Pretty much all of his "good" ideas were replication of old historical solutions. Every time he tried something on his own, 10-20 million people died.
>>97069147Catholics generally aren't young earth creationists bro.
>>97069147>>97069209(Oh and counting Orthodox as Catholic because you're literally the "Orthodox Catholic Church", schisms aside y'all are on the Catholic side of the Catholic/Protestant split.)
>>97069215Every single Saint, in antiquity and in modern era, believed in young earth creationism. There's no room for debate on that as being dogmatically necessary, and supported by the consensus patrum. Those are the standard for who are Actual Christians. It's pretty hard to be deified when you think that disbelieving God is compatible with believing in God.
>50+ replies>0 posts about how this affects the gameHoly nogames faggots.
>>97069342>implying 40kids play games
>>970690873/5, made me reply
>>97066247Brainlets want the Emperor to be Jesus so they can jerk off to the Imperium. And toy with their ass a little.
>>97069015Oh, you can find them if you know where to look for them, but it's not that you can just walz in your average Bible study group and find a die-hard slavery defender. Just look how much modern apologism is just trying to explain biblical slavery away as something else.
If you use this website, you are not a christian.
>>97066485Yes, what you talk about is retardation, and your response here is a perfect example of why christcucks are sub-zero IQ fuckwits. Anon's point was not>HURR DURR MUH CRUSADES MAKE RELGEEON DUR BADWRONGit was that you can't claim atheism is as fantatical and hateful than relgion until athiesm actually does fanatical and hateful things. Your hurt fee-fees because more and more people understand that you believe in a fairy tale for children meant to keep peasants docile while rich elites exploit their labour is not equivalent to literally stoning people to death for being gay, or engaging dozens of master blacksmiths to forge a human-shaped coffin filled with spikes that you can put people in if they deny your god, or butchering tens of thousands of people not even because they deny your god but because they believe in a *slightly* different version of events surrounding one specific aspect of your god's worship.
>>97067525I'm going to call you a hylic now and then eat from a bowl of shit.
>>97069322This is actual heretical belief. If the Church says no, but you say yes, you are not an Actual Christian. It doesn't matter what you think Church historical doctrine was. You are a protestant heretic.
>>97069322Ok fact that you've apparently not kept up with mainstream Catholicism aside,>saint just means person who's in heaven You're saying that the afterlife is contingent on not understanding basic middle school geology?
>>97068960*God
>>97069514Titles are capitalised for reverential reasons, if you don't revere the being in question there's no reason, and indeed it's more gramaticaly accurate, to not capitalise.>But it's a name!No, that would be Yahweh.
>>97067133>Aaron "Daddy Issues" Bowden>write a good storyNo.
>>97069514God is a title, not a name.
>>97069393t. Pope
Christianity and burgerclapistan protestantism are blights
>>97069393And what is the Church? The Church is the continued body of Christ including all clergy and laity from Christ's ministry and the Apostles to today, and who retains the Saving Confession of Faith(St Maximus the Confessor). The problem of the majority of mainstream bishops pretending to be the True Church has already happened in Church History several times, in the crises of Arianism, Monothelitism(of which St Maximus the Confessor is known), and Iconoclasm. Canon 15 of the First-Second Council explicitly permits breaking off from heretical bishops, and calls heretical bishops pseudo-bishops, and that breaking off from them preserves the Church. Numerical majority and reputation of being "mainstream" is irrelevant to retaining the actual true faith.And like I said, I'm Orthodox. A new Saint, St Seraphim Rose, was recently glorified where one of his main works is a thick tome explaining that YEC is fully patristic and Orthodox, and that evolution is completely incompatible with Orthodoxy.>>97069395>Ok fact that you've apparently not kept up with mainstream Catholicism aside,Mainstream Catholicism allows Amazonian pagans to worship Pachamama in the Vatican. Vatican II is known to be a travesty to any serious traditional Catholic. Mainstream representations of something do not represent the most authentic version of somethings. McDonalds isn't representative of authentic burgers despite being the most populous burger.>You're saying that the afterlife is contingent on not understanding basic middle school geology?The actual science of geology is a completely different field to science-fiction alternate-history speculations that atheists decide to make up and endlessly argue over.In order to believe in God, you have to actually believe God. Believing that atheists have more authority than God over the true understanding of the history of mankind is very plainly choosing to believe that random atheists have more authority than God.
>>97071714You could just own up to being wrong. I know it's a wild concept but owning up to your mistake lets you grow as a person.
>>97071747Or I could rape you. I think I'll do that instead.
>>97069342>muh gamesNo one cares about your overpriced plastic toys and your shitty game that increasingly gets worse rules. We want to discuss the lore and we will, and you won't do shit other than complain like a bitch. Keep gobbling on that delicious GW cock and cry about it faggot lol.
>>97071714>The actual science of geology is a completely different field to science-fiction alternate-history speculations that atheists decide to make up and endlessly argue over.I imagine that both of them agree on the whole "Earth is more than 7500 years old" thing, however.
>>97071747
>>97071914He doesn't even have the right number for young earth creationism, the biblical calculation of the age of the world comes out to about 6028 years, currently.Dumbass is off by 1500 even in his own stupidly wrong worldview.
>>97071714>I'm more Catholic than the pope is!It's kinda funny that I don't share your religion but can still so easily declare you a heretic within it.
>>97072110tbqh the Bibl isn't that exact with its numbers. That many of them are some symbolic number code instead of something to be taken literally ofc takes off the whole foundation from any such calculation.
>>97072110Masoretic text and Septuagint have different numbers for the ages of Old Testament people by whom the age of the earth is calculated. The Orthodox go by the Septuagint as an authoritative source, and the Septuagint age is 7534, Masoretic age is 6028. >>97072114Not only am I not Roman Catholic, I literally cited canon law that lets you break from a Bishop (which would include the pope) if he were to be an obvious manifest heretic. According to Roman Catholic canon law (since the canon I cited is prior to the great schism), you literally can say "I am more catholic than the pope because the pope is committing to already synodally condemned heresies X Y Z and so I will break communion with him."https://ortodoxiacatholica.com/blog/2024/08/16/canon-15-of-the-1st-2nd-council-of-constantinople/?lang=en
>>97069368>it was that you can't claim atheism is as fantatical and hateful than relgion until athiesm actually does fanatical and hateful things.It has though? Communism and Marxism, the ideologies of state athiesm, has killed more people than all religious wars in the last 2000 years combined. Stalin and Mao absolutely had people tortured in ways that would horrify crusaders or the spanish inquisition.
>>97068737>christian and communistYou can't though. Communism isn't just an economic model, it's an ideology(marxism). Marxism has one of it's main goals literally be separating people from "The Opiate of the Masses"(religion).Communists who hold onto religion aren't communists, they're socialist larpers trying to pick and choose what actually applies to them. They're to communism what the boomer megachurch christians are to christianity.
>>97072188>communism = marxismlmaoRead a book.
>>97072198>no argumentYou'd gain more ground if you actually made points instead of being a family guy meme.
>>97072145Any Christian can claim any other Christian is a heretic, that's why you have so many schisms. Still fucking hilarious you're trying to get away from the infallible voice of catholicism and claim to still be catholic though.The great schism was over whether the bishop of Rome was the most senior patriarch position or the absolute leader position... And then by splitting from communion with him entirely he became neither to the Orthodox church, meaning they were heretics even by their own logic by cutting off the senior figure of their order. Funny that.See also the recent split where now most Anglicans, aka English style Christians, aren't in communion with the church of England making those guys heretics by their own logic too.
>>97066247The writer obviously didn't believe that. He sent a copy of it to the cuck Richard Dawkins of all people lmao. He absolutely, unironically believed that this was like a socratic dialogue in which he BTFO'd religion.No doubt Dicky D read it while hiding under his bed from the Mohammadeans he helped clear the road for.
>>97072293>He sent a copy of it to the cuck Richard Dawkins of all people lmaoHoly hell
>Anons unironically defending communism and atheismI wonder how long it will take the west to recover from the pit of abject stupidity we've dug ourselves into?
>>97072231Ex-Cathedra statements are contextually hyper-specific and limited, dummy. The last time the pope made one was in the 1950s confirming that Mary was in heaven. The one prior to that was 1854, declaring that the immaculate conception did in fact happen.
>>97072312Right when people realize overcorrecting into christcuckdom ain't the answer. Unfortunately christcuck will never admit this and dig their own way to hell because they don't want to live a good life.
>>97072335>christcuckdomAnon, you've swallowed the propaganda. The bible is all about blood and fire when war is at your door. American style boomer christianity is anti-christian in nearly all its values, and the more I learn about global politics the more I think that's by design.
>>97072435>No one's a REAL christian except me - A terminally online 4chud!
>>97072312Atheism is the correct option until proof of God's existance (and proof that this *specific* god exists) is provided.
>>97072448>listen to my communist/atheist opinion on why religion bad!lmao faggot
>>97072470Why am I paying this guy money to listen to his made up tales about an old man in the sky?
>>97072312Look man, you grow up with atheist parents and you learn just how unnecessary the coping mechanisms the religious use to get through life really are. Yeah, they work, but you can arrive at stable mental health just fine without.Then you look around and see fucking morons saying shit about fictional gods everywhere, and let's be real: even if some version of Christianity is right, that means every other version of the Christian god is a fictional character besides the correct version so most Christians are running their mouth on bullshit.And you see people shoving their bullshit into politics, trying to force it on everyone else.I'm not a Reddit atheist, I don't have the energy and I'm not enough of an asshole. But boy, can I sympathise with why they're so pissed off with you tiresome fucks.
>>97072475probably because you're retarded and a faggot?donations are by choice
>>97072476>athetist parents>reddit spacing>whines about religion but "I'm not enough of an asshole"you are reddit incarnate
>>97072490You are expected to provide them still and there will be social consequences for withholding them and again, why does this organization deserve money? Why does it deserve the wide political influence it had and still has over the world? None of that shit is any remotely close to proven or even likely.
>>97072509>You are expected to provide them still and there will be social consequences for withholding them and againlmao you have never been to church faggot retard>WHY THEY GET THE MONEY BUT I NO GET MONEYbecause they give people a sense of belonging and community instead of being a retarded faggot on 4chan like you big dog
>>97072521Oh yeah, those kids being told from birth they'll be tortured for all of eternity if they dare disobey their parents are really feeling that embrace of the community. real sense of belonging there.
>>97072501Say what you like about my views (from a sample size of one post where I speak frankly because it's on topic but sure bro), but the spacing thing is just idiocy.Particularly when you are, in fact, using Reddit spacing instead of paragraphs.
>>97072536lmao go to church little man go learn yourself>>97072537you're clearly a faggot no one cares about your opinion retard
>>97072544My main point is just that most Christians have to be wrong because they're split up so much, and that you should keep church and state separate at *least* until you get basically everyone on board with the same specific religion.If you can't agree with those points you're a fucking imbecile.
>>97072544What does the church "teach" exactly? For something to be knowledge it has to be verified, proven, or at least have evidence backing it up. Otherwise it's just shit you made up. When you get evidence that God exists we'll talk.
>>97072537Anon, why is the proof you're using a screenshot of a post from 2023? Are you an idiot?I'm not even saying you're wrong, I'm saying your argument and standards of evidence are so shit you're convincing me to disbelieve you.
>>97072579it's a complicated topic. people debate philosophy too, does that make it 'wrong' you're a terminally online 20 something who thinks they're intellectual but you're really retarded, debate is how people figure things out be that religion, science, or social issuesif you didn't have crippling autism you would understand the basic principles of being humanmy condolences
>>97072629If you do something simple like "read the image" you'll see that it explains what reddit spacing is and provides a reasoning for that assertion.
>>97072617it teaches you to be a better person and to accept togetherness with your communityyou're hyper fixated on the dogma because you are a retarded person
>>97072636>it's a complicated topic. people debate philosophy too, does that make it 'wrong'Philosophy is rarely if ever providing a central theory as to how the world works. Look, if Calvinists are right, God saw all and decided all beforehand and has an arbitrarily decided list of who's going to heaven. If Protestants are right, you have free will and you have to believe in God and read the bible to go there. These two are incompatible. One of them has to be wrong.
>>97072641Anon, what the post in the image is saying doesn't matter. His only proof of his statements is:>I'm an oldfag BTWHe could be lying out of his ass and you'd be nodding right along because it's convenient for you.It's completely retarded.
>>97072636I'm 36 lol.Anyhow the majority of interpretations of god are deeply heretical to nearly every other interpretation. Hell, there's plenty of versions that depict him as a severely evil tyrant and encourage people to "fear" him, which is entirely heretical to the idea of him being "all loving and merciful".
>>97072659>the world is black and white just like my japanese cartoons!how old are you
>>97072650>it teaches you to be a better person and to accept togetherness with your communityI can learn that without religion.>you're hyper fixated on the dogma because you are a retarded personThe dogma is what makes it a religion and not an ethics course or soup kitchen.
>>97072671Explain to me how you conflate a religion that says "Free will isn't real" and a religion that says "Free will is real." Tell me how to conflate these two beliefs. They cannot be both true.
>>97072668>36>absolutely retardedThere's billions of people on the planet and you're shocked people have different ideas about thingsyou really are a retarded communist
>atheists trying desperately to pretend atheism's death toll isn't higher than any other ideology or religion what blew up in Russia today?
>>97072672So do so, go make the world a better place instead of whining here champ>>97072682I don't care what you think because you're a retard with no community outside of the ones you cling to online
>>97072691How is communism's death toll on atheism specifically, and not on communism? Explain to me how the atheist state led to the Great Leap Forward.
>>97072691>Russian trying to false flag away from OrthodoxyYou tell us.
>>97072659The Calvinist interpretation of god is evil, but the good news is that if they're right you don't need to do anything. You have no free will, you make no choices. You'll either be sent to heaven or hell without your decisions factoring in. And so, you don't need to stress over "what to do", just relax and if he's decided you'll go to heaven then you'll have faith at the hour of your death, otherwise you could pray all you want and lose faith at the last second. Taking part in calvinist church or worrying about decisions relating to it is a waste of time, so just ignore them.
>>97072702atheism is communist idealismyou worship the stateretard
>>97072312>Post one thing>Anons roll in not just to argue with you, but also to argue on your behalfWow, I didn't even get a chance to participate.
>>97072707Communism as an ideology rejects idealism. That's literally what being materialistic means.
>>97072708as long as you agree the current 40k/HH lore is gay retarded shit for retards written by poo breath crooked brown toothed british atheists you'll be fine
>>97072712>Communism as an ideology rejects idealism.No the fuck it doesn't. It literally operates by the unrealistic ideal of a fully equal society, which has never existed in any recorded history.
>>97072683Read again:>most Christians must be wrong even if some are right >Making legislation based on your special interpretation rather than on general moral principles is bad because it forces people to live in bondage to religion they lack faith inThat's all, no surprise about people arguing here.
>>97072712LMAO
>>97072708You'll get 'em next time, champ.
>>97072728go die in the gulag commie retard
>>97066247its so funny that the emperor thinks he won this argument, he was thousands year old super being with immense psychic powers and got owned by some regular priest.
>>97072728>rather than on general moral principlesIssue is, you can't actually get most people to agree on what those "General Moral Principles" even are if they haven't been fed those ideas from birth. Even Murder being Bad is constantly argued in cultures without a singular cultural moral backbone uniting that society. To make things worse, the average person rarely things about more than themselves and half of them can't think their way out of a wet paper bag, so they almost never come to the conclusions on how morality should work on their own.
>>97072742Where are you even getting communism from lol I favour capitalism with proper regulations, guardrails and taxation of the rich instead of the poor. Basically just what we have now but the government actually doing their fucking job and busting monopolies and beating some sense into corporations when they get too stupid.
>>97072727No? Communist revolutionaries weren't revolting because maybe we'll get communist paradise at the end of it. They were revolting because the Tsar was running the country to the ground and communism would be an improvement. The entire argument of communism, class struggle, rests on the idea of following your own interests, not on some lofty ideal. Proletarians should revolt because they'd be better off if they did, just like bourgeoisie should hold them back because that means they can keep their conditions good. This is the entire idea.
>>97072755british people are known for being morons>>97072758no one cares commie
>>97072756Oh please, everyone except retard randian objectivists knows that good is working to uplift others and evil is harming others for personal gain. Everything else is just fine details and scumbags making excuses to cover their asses.
>>97072764...Anon, have you ever actually read The Communist Manifesto, Das Kapital, or The State and Revolution?
>>97072783I've found communists never read their own materialit makes it easier for them to lie about everything
>>97072776>Oh please, everyone except retard randian objectivistsAnon, you sweet summer child. You ignorant buffoon.Your academic philosophy has no concept of the true mountains of stupidity that operate beyond its walls.Moral Relativism is the STANDARD for most societies even today. Most cultures still operate by "If they were dumb enough to fall for it, that's their own fault" and "It's not a crime if you aren't caught".You need to travel more. You really, really don't understand how shit most of humanity actually is.
>>97072764>Communist revolutionaries weren't revolting because maybe we'll get communist paradise>They were revolting because the Tsar was running the country to the ground and communism would be an improvementSo they were revolting to try out this communist paradise idea, but they weren't actually? Anon, do you even read your own posts before publishing them?
>>97072819>>97072871You both can say americans.
>>97068960Because the term god doesn't imply omnipotence.
>>97072933>GEWD MOHRNEEN SAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARS
>>97072933relax poojeet
>>97072476>Look man, you grow up with atheist parents and you learn just how unnecessary the coping mechanisms the religious use to get through life really are. Yeah, they work, but you can arrive at stable mental health just fine without.I still don't think secular culture produces as good of mental health as some religions. It's still bad at dealing with spiritual matters, partially because there's an undercurrent of materialism running through it, and it doesn't have equally satisfying replacements for many religions' rituals or community. Secular culture's answer to the spiritual guidance provided by religious leaders is psychiatry/therapy, and suffice to say there are a number of problems in that field.None of this is to say there's any religion that's "true" in the sense that every proposition put forth by its doctrine and texts is true, or that EVERY religion is better for mental health, or that secular culture will never be able to close that gap. But where things stand currently I don't think you can make a reasonable case that there's no religion that will give better mental health outcomes.
>>97066442>Fedora Caste systemUSSR where if you were related to previous nobility you couldn't be a member of the Party and were often sent off to die in Siberia>Fedora CrusadesUSSR againDidn't even have to mention social justice for it to be applicable.
>>97068646You're too invested in this shit setting for your own good. Please stop.
>>97066247>whyi blame "media literacy" faggots.>story shows that atheism is bad and will doom humanity.>gaythist mcneil: "actually dah emproh is in dah riought here."media literacy people literally will see an author's intent and latch onto it rather than reading the work in context and thinking and thus they set the tone for the conversation.and then look at it, there's the faggot atheists in here screeching oddly more than the christfaggots. the conversation becomes about the harm of religion rather than the actual question the story raises in context.I think graham meant the priest throwing himself into the fire to represent humanity falling to superstition and destroying itself.I personally take it to mean that the emperor doesn't understand how humanity works, he doesn't understand people on any fundamental level. that's why he fails with his sons. that's why he fails with the imperium as a whole.he thinks if he just produces logical arguments he can sway everyone, that simple terse words would matter. Man kind needs a belief system. The emperor also just comes off as a narcissist, he cannot abide dissent so much that he came to this church that would die with it's priest to complete his ultimate victory over faith.It's nothing but an ego thing, because why else would be doing this when he could be winning a war or preparing to conquer the universe. he doesn't recognize or care for those who are less capable then him, he's just speed running creating more of himself, as his actual goal. humans are disposable tools to be discarded or beaten into line.That's why the thunderwarriors were destroyed, that's why the Primarchs likely would too, for who needs a Russ, an Angron or a Konrad Cruze when the galaxy is under his boot. indeed the emperor cared so little for Angron he'd let him die, he's killed his own sons before.
>>97073182Best post
>>97073339The story doesn't show atheism will doom humanity. In 40k the Imperium was doing way better when it was atheist, and became religious when everything was fucked.
cool, another 2016er thread
>>97072114I once believed exactly what you believed. The problem is that you are (not entirely unjustifiably) conflating the belief system itself with the utterly farcical and shamefully hypocritical institutions that purport to curate the belief system on your behalf. Most serious Christians are appalled at the state of our churches, and probably with even more bitterness and anger than you, an outsider, can begin to understand. If you're interested in giving a fair shot, I recommend that you try reading the Four Gospels + Acts with a copy of Strong's Concordance nearby (so that you can read the original Greek). Please draw your conclusions about Christianity after that.
>>97073564If they hate what the group is doing with the identity of the group maybe they should stop identifying themselves as part of that group... Otherwise they need to continue being very fucking quiet because none of us outside that shit wanna hear it.
>>97073405>The story doesn't show atheism will doom humanity.Anon, fucking read the rest of my post, my point is that this is a damning character examination of the emperor that even Daddy issues Boden couldn't match, but if you want to talk about this, in text, that's the crux of the point.It's been a while since i read it but as i remember the priest literally warns the emperor about how people will see him as a good if he strips their beliefs (true in setting), he often remarks that the emperor seems like wise, intelligent man but also extremely intolerant of religion. and the final scene is the priest walking into his burning church in defiance of the emperor whilst his apocalypse clock begins to chime is an allegory for the setting. the only difference is how you choose to interpret that. and i see it very distinctly, and in context that the emperor damns humanity because he is incapable of understanding them. this is consistent with everything else we know of him. militant anti-theism is what drove lorgar into the hands of the primordial truth. his consistent use of his sons as tools led to the heresy as much as anything else.you could choose to say that "humanity is just so damn primitive it wouldn't even let itself be helped." but it's hard to do that within the larger universe.As much as Mcneil might express it differently it seems pretty unintentionally a critique of anti-theism and the emperor's->the Imperium was great when it was atheist.Was it?it was a pale shadow of the former human empire, it heavily relied on priests of mars. it wasn't uniformly secular but even then what would that serve to prove?that the Imperium was fatally wounded and in the absence of a uniform imperial dictate people formed a religion worshipping the emperor as he was warned.The ecclesiastic fervour is the result of the emperor's failings, directly.
>>97073618>If they hate what the group is doing with the identity of the group maybe they should stop identifying themselves as part of that groupYou mean like how athiests were so quick to decry liberals and marxists on their bullshit? Oh Wait! They didn't.
>>97069368The sheer level of logical fallacy in this post is incredible. What causes someone to turn out like this?
>>97072312Fortunately they're just an obnoxious minority of spammers. But the damage that's been done to the west will take generations to repair.
>>97072448Yeah, I'm sure the people seething about religion on an internet image board about tabletop games are the ones not terminally online. You know how those religious people are, only ever being found online.
>>97066442>when we get the fedora caste system and the fedora crusades we can talkI believe they called that the "Soviet Union."
>>97072476This could literally be a Reddit atheist copypasta. You literally said "boy, I'm not one of them, but I sure do agree with them!"
>>97072668So you're not informed enough about Christianity to know how the various denominations answer the question of the other sects, yet you're so knowledgeable about the different sects to say that they're mostly heretical to one another? You have serious logical and personality issues, and your assumptive reasoning is keeping you from developing real intelligence.
>>97072691Don't forget conflating Islam with all other religions! Because Osama Bin Laden is the same thing as Bob Ross and Mr. Rogers!
>>97072702It's on both, retard. That's like saying you can't blame the Holocaust on fascism because it was antisemitism that killed people.
>>97072728You really don't see a failure in logic with that? Really?
>>97073405How the fuck did you solve the captcha
>>97073618Yeah! If leftists and atheists dont like what the Soviet Union did, they should stop being leftists and atheists! We should all abandon our beliefs the moment someone misuses them!
>>97074552that wasn't misuse that was the lefty atheist end game and they loved itjust like how you still think the CCCP was ever the "good guys"fucking retard
>>97068646More posts need to suddenly break into probable lyrics from a power metal song.>EVEN AN ANIMAL CAN LOVE.>ONLY A MAN CAN BELIEVE.>HE ISN'T ONE OF US!Raw as fuck.
>>97072537Thanks for this image holy shit lol.
>>97066247He wanted too erase religion and yet the Imperiam turned into a bunch of space catholic zealots that formed the worst place too live in the galaxy that isn't swarming with demons or discount flood knockoffs.
>>97074605>christian zealotsFtfy
>>97073182Some fun is allowed
>>97074609Both worship a corpse.
>>97066247Traditional games, anyone?
>>97072537>>97074574Doubling down by fagsplaining how reddit autoformats posts isn't an own like you think it is, it's a self-report.
>>97073699Oh okay. I didn't read that story and thought you were talking about the setting in general.
>>97066247Not supporting fedora atheism here, but it's weird how people hate last church for its obnoxious reddit atheism when that's literally all warhammer's ever been, a whingefest about shit redditors don't like. Had the site existed back in the 80s the guys who made warhammer would've been powermods.
>>97068953You're only having a hard time finding them because Charlie Kirk was killed recently.
>>97069139Catholics are not usually young earth creationists.
The Emperor wasn't really an atheist, though the arguments he gave for atheism were basically correct. He tried to unite humanity with religion, but thst failed, and so in a fit of salt he decided he was going to try to extirpate religion from humanity. Really, the dude worships himself, and is a massive hypocrite by allowing the AdMech to worship him while treating Lorgar like shit. He's a bad dude, there's nothing around it. But the thing about atheism is that it doesn't say anything about the people who are atheists, unlike people who practice religion.
>>97075542>But the thing about atheism is that it doesn't say anything about the people who are atheistsu wot
>>97075550Like, for example, Christianity has its various rules and strictures, including famously the ten commandments. There are no atheist commandments, because atheism isn't a belief system, it's a lack of belief.
>>97075573lack of belief in something certainly shows characteristicswhy do you think atheists considered themselves intelligent and logical for NOT believing in God or religion?
>>97075674Not all atheists think they're intelligent or logical.
>>97075703atheism follows a line of reasoning pertaining to perceived logic about the nature of the universe and they often sneer at religious people for being ignorant of science without acknowledging that even great thinkers and scientists were religious
>>97075703of course, but that's beside the point
>>97068743Not in 40k, where there is no Creatio ex Nihilo (Or the biblical texts where the same applies)Argument from evil is only a problem when an omnipotent deity makes everything from *nothing* and is then surprised to find that his angels and other creations have turned against him- despite bearing total responsibility for everything they do.If I make a robot from Chinese parts and it kills my family, I could potentially blame the Chinese parts. If I manufacture all the parts, assemble the thing and install programming of my own device, I don't get to wriggle out of that.The Emperor is specifically not omnipotent and is working with what he has to hand after apocalyptic wars and interference from evil deities.The Immortal Emperor would be considered a divine being in any classical context, the last priest is not incorrect in identifying him as such.
>>97067420>Give me an example of atheists doing bad stuff >Ok here are some examples >No these don't count
>>97075865Yeah, they don't. Because the examples given weren't done in the name of atheism.
>>97069322And the person who wrote Genesis believed in a totally different cosmology for the earth, where the earth was flat and was covered by a dome, with water beneath and above.God didn't see fit to correct that guy, apparently he meets us where we are without requiring us to 100% correct on scientific models. Flat earthers today are biblical literalists who insist that the bible is a univocal inerrant book given to us from Heaven that should never be questioned or interrogated, or understood in its ancient context
>>97075498Who?
>>97075872The shape of the earth isn't even remotely as important of a question as the history of God with man, or how God made man, because the first is a matter of scientific models, and the second is a matter of history. Besides, flat earthers are flat earthers first, and biblical literalists only incidentally.Evolution being the origin of man and all species is a question of history and anti-Christian metaphysics, rather than simply being a difference in opinion scientific model. It's a matter of history that directly contradicts a core spiritual foundation of Christianity - that God made creation without death, the cosmos broke when Adam sinned, and that introduced death into the cosmos, and then Christ defeated the cosmic infection of death through his death on the cross, to be completely fulfilled in the end times when everyone is resurrected and death is completely overcome.The problem with evolution is that it requires man to be made through death, that death is to be considered an inherent and original part of the design of the cosmos. It's simply incompatible with basic traditional Christian belief, and trying to combine the two beliefs results in monstrous distortions of the faith that people are right to reject - see Hitchen's argument that only a monster would create humanity through millions of years of death and suffering, which is a good argument. That's not a matter of "God meeting us where we are", that's a matter of making shit up and wanting God to bend to our fantasies.
>>97075901People believe what makes sense to them in an emotional level. Millions of Christians believe heaps of anti-Christian things because of this- your average Evangelical's beliefs on how the Devil works contradict half what the Bible actually says on his regard, and let's not even get started on the Rapture or Israel.The thing is, there is evidence towards an old earth and evolution. Everything points towards a world that is not at all 6-7 thousands years old. If you believe the evidence in front of your eyes, you can either believe God planted evidence, which makes him look like a dickhead fucking with us for no reason, or try to meld it with your preexisting faith. Those Christians who hold evolution would rather not believe God likes to lie to his creation for a laugh, so they agree with the evidence and compress things a little in their heads to make it work.
>>97069069>fedora reductionist
>>97075720No it doesn't. There are a near-infinite number of ways and justifications for atheism. >>97075722It's relevant for the thread; atheism isn't a mirror image of religion. It's the null set.
>>97075573>There are no atheist commandments, because atheism isn't a belief system, it's a lack of belief.thisthere are no atheist commandments, but there are e.g. scientific commandmentstrust what you see etc.and many people who follow them arrive at atheism, but it's not the only pathif you want to call something a belief, you can call science a belief, a belief in an explainable universeand many people do blindly believe in science without realising itEmps included, I think
Because it helped foment the current wave of fedora theism.
>>97072312I’m not a c*mmunist but no amount of contrarianism in an autistic online culture war is ever going to make me pretend to believe in jewish mythology.
>>97066442Atheists are responsible for one of the bloodiest civil wars in Mexico retarded faggot.
>>97077802No they aren't. The Cristero war was over state/church separation. It was Christians throwing a bitchfit because their religion wasn't legally privileged anymore.
>>97073034>USSR where if you were related to previous nobility you couldn't be a member of the Party and were often sent off to die in SiberiaFelons shouldn't hold office though
>>97067139>McNeill still has that comment on record about how the Emperor is supposed to be right, but wrongAnd Tommy Wisseau is on record calling The Room a "dark comedy" rather than a sincere failure. I firmly believe it was meant to be a celebration of atheism and Emperor's big brain dunking on that christcuck loser and wouldn't have asked Dawkins to autograph it if it was anything more nuanced, but after seeing the reception to it he had to save face and concede that Uriah was right (while still coping about how b-b-but he's still totes wrong and a christcuck).
>>97066442>when we get the fedora caste system It's called Communism>and the fedora crusadesIt's called the>Reign of Terror>Extermination of Tsarist Russians>Holodomor>Khmer Rouge>Mao's Han Extermination and Uighyur Genocide>plenty more I've forgottenHonestly atheists have had about as many major crusades as any religion in an impressively short amount of time.
>>97067133>I'm deeply embarrassed people keep quoting it as an atheist story. >If I was an atheist, I wouldn't want that shit representating me.That's the thing, it perfectly encapsulates atheists. And I'm not even religious.
>>97069069Not OP but it affected my last game of 40K because my opponent was a custardfag who would not shut the fuck up about the HH book series even when I told him I didn't care about 30K or primarchs. Also his army was lame to fight because custards fucking suck.Without dreck like The Last Church I would never have had to deal with him OR his army, so it affected me greatly.
>>97075874Y'know, Kirk. That guy what fucks all the alien babes in the old Star Gordon serials, innit?
>>97068953Communism literally calls for abolition of all religions (so you have more money to give to Hungry Santa), retard.
>>97077950Ah, the alien fucker. Whatever happened to him?
>>97077958No one's ever heard from ever since he went to make love to that mountain...
>>97077952No it doesn't :^)Shared ownership and other such concepts of communism have been theorized since at least Plato. Your definition of communism is far too rigid and misguided. Communism is in essence far more christian than capitalism.
>>97075573>There are no atheist commandmentsThere is but one: Believe The Science™The Science™ being whatever globohomo tells you what it is, such as that castrated boys are actually women.
>>97077983>doesn't even read his own religious textsCommies really are just christfags in denial, I swear.
>>97069368Woah a time traveler from 2005. Welcome to the future!Unfortunately almost everything you just said is retarded and wrong. I advise you to read more history and less Internet slop (here in the future it isn't novel anymore).
>>97072312>atheists on 4chan? That is NOT based and redpilled Holy newfag. Go back to X.
I've never known a christian to follow the words and lessons in the bible.
>>97078193What's that have to do with 40K, sweatie?
>>97069087>If you're Actually Christian, you believe the earth is 7500 years old created by God with specific purpose,immediate non starter, please read literally any theology that isn't from pastor Jim Bob who never saw the inside of a seminary
>>97078258>implying that anon has even read Pastor Jimbob's Essay of CreationismPlease, you and I both know the extent of his knowledge of Christianity is youtube video essays by some loser with a PNG avatar and an uncomfortable history grooming minors.
>>97069215>schisms aside y'all are on the Catholic side of the Catholic/Protestant split.not at all. They are both apostolic so in that sense they are doctrinally similiar to catholics however they also claim to the the ONE holy and apostolic church, a title similiarly claimed by Roman Catholicism, whereas Protestants for the most part do not claim to be the sole source of christian authority. This means that while Catholics and Orthodox will often times finger wag protestants, when THAT issue comes up there really can't be any sort of "agree to disagree"
>>97069368You are dead right and every anon responding to you is retarded except for >>97072156And even he is pretty retarded, as all regimes by default are atheistic until they select a religion.Atheists are responsible for 99.999999999% of deaths, as the vast majority of deaths are done by bacteria type shit to other bacteria type shit. Atheism is just a lack of a stance, a thing the religions fundamentally don't seem to understand.
>>97078199follow the thread. The discussion stopped being about the church of the lightning stone and the non-criticality of atheist evangelism mirroring that of religious evangelism a long time ago.
>>97078297I accept your concession, quaternary
>>97078193Welcome to reality. Where christcucks are the biggest liars on this planet. No one else runs and denies things as hard as christcucks.
>>97074508Everybody agrees with reddit atheists is the problem, other than pan-theists.
>>97078313Now now, you just think that because you have christians lying near you.I'm sure that other religions are just as huge liars,.
>>97078193what are the words and lessons in the bible? I find people who often trot this out think that jesus only said "be excellent each other and never tell anyone anything that harshes their vibes."
>>97078347Pick a bible, they don't follow any of 'em, other than the ones that they can be lazy about.
>>97078355womp womp
>>97078355>>97078347I feel I have to point out that I, the person responding to you, am not the anon you were responding to, before this whole who's on first samefag bullshit I foresee starts.>>97078356I'm sorry you've got so many bibles that we have to pick one when you ask what the words and lessons in it are.
>>97077913None of these were because of atheism, though. there are no precepts of atheism that commanded any of these. atheism is the lack of a religious belief.
>>97066247It was poorly written, like everything in nigger library.
>>97078376>None of these were because of atheism, thoughlol>there are no precepts of atheism that commanded any of theselmao
>>97078386>Seething this hard that atheism has no commandmentslol
>>97078389I'm sorry that your beliefs don't match the tenets of your religion. It's a hard fact to cope with.
>>97078395I'm sorry that you cannot comprehend the concept of not having a religion.
>>97078402If you didn't have a religion you wouldn't be such an ardent believer in atheism.
>>97078395What are the tenets of this religion? What commandments am I receiving from the god I don't believe in?
>>97078411>the tentsKilling theists, believing The Science™, and communism, mostly.
>>97078406I don't believe in things that aren't real, anon.Again, I'm sorry you don't understand the concept of not having a religion.
>>97078420How does any of this follow from "I don't believe in God" exactly
>>97078420Ah, so you're just seething that we aren't sacrificing babies to your devil god like you guys do.
>>97078424>>97078425Because the two go hand-in-hand. If they didn't you wouldn't ascribe to their dogma.
>>97078420We're talking about atheism, not your strawman religion you're scared of
>>97078430>you're just seething that we aren't sacrificing babiesFunny, coming from the pro-abortion camp.
>>97078431I'm sorry that not believing in things that aren't real upsets you so.I hope one day we develop some treatment to cure your madness.
>>97078359>I'm sorry you've got so many bibles that we have to pick one when you ask what the words and lessons in it are.there are 3 options here:1. you don't know that bible refers to a specific collection of books and is not just a generic name for any holybook2. You are making possibly the worlds most retarded argument that "different translations create a new bible." In which case there are 60 different Odysseys' in English alone3. you are baiting. For the sake of not assuming you are an actual retard, I'm gonna assume its 3.I'll throw you a bone and assume you might be talking about the Apocryphal books that Protestants have that are in the Catholic bible in which case there would be "two bibles" if one were being overly generous.(in the sense that the book being 95% the same but missing a few chapters makes a new book) That still doesn't pass the sniff test because there's nothing in the apocryphal books that radically changes the Christian religion, rather they are just further reinforcement of messages you would already get in the rest of the bible.
>>97078438Pro-abortioners want to kill them before they're alive. As early as possible, really, given all the condoms and safe sex stuff they always tout.YOU want to wait until they're alive, then smother them, given the sids rates when you have your way.
>>97078439Even this passive-aggressive seethe is part and parcel of your dogma, hilariously enough. I've met christians with more theory of mind than you.
>>97078443>before they're alivelul, that's not what an abortion is and you know it. Next you'll recite your "clump of cells" mantra no doubt.
>>97078446Anon, from my point of view you are literally crazy. You believe in a thing that is factually untrue, and are willing to do anything for this untrue thing.How would you feel if we had regular bombings and terrorist attacks from people in the name of the sun? That wouldn't seem to good, would it?
>>97078450Even you agree they're not alive in the womb, as you wait until after they're out to ritually sacrifice them.
>>97078454>from my point of view you are literally crazyIronic, considering I'm not even Christian. I just hate atheism zealots and find them more warped than even the most degenerate, Westboro Baptist-tier christians
If God wanted me to believe in him he'd just show up. Make an announcement and clear up all ambiguity. As he hasn't I can only assume he either doesn't exist or doesn't care for me believing in him. Either way is the same and I can simply go on with my life.
>>97078461>Even you agree they're not alive in the wombMassive cope, lmao
>>97078463Either you're religious, and the point stands, or you're not, and you've already agreed with the important points.
>>97078470Look, it's the only explanation that makes sense for why you guys are so against abortion but so pro dead baby.And why you guys have been so anti-condom and shit off and on.
>>97078470The bible has zero (0) pronounciations on the matter aside from one passage where if someone hits a woman on accident and she aborts as a result they have to pay a fine.
>>97078471I accept your concession. My nation is currently plagued by far more atheist terrorists than religious terrorists, so I have every reason to see your dogma ground into dust where it belongs. At least religion can be constructive, the same can't be said for your kind.
>>97078482I hate to tell you anon, but the vast majority of deaths will always be atheistic in nature, as atheism is the default state of the world.
>>97078482Ok, Peter Pan
>>97078476>>97078477>buh duh bibble!see >>97078463
>>97078490You not being christian absolutely doesn't prevent you from trying to build some kind of baby soul grinder like the christians.
>>97078486If that's the case than why must you so angrily fight the mere concept of religion on a mongolian basket weaving forum on the board dedicated for funni dicegames? Feels almost like you're worried if you didn't constantly rail against skyman you'd have no identity.
>>97078494>baby soul grinderAka Planned Parenthood. Thank you for conceding once again.
>>97078496Gee, why would I style on shitposting religionfags on an edgy and poorly moderated anonymous internet forum.It will forever be a mystery.
>>97078494>prevent you from trying to build some kind of baby soul grinder like the christians.Do we have actual schizos in the thread or is this just arguing that if someone is born in poverty that that is worse than him never being born?
>>97078504Now now, we've both agreed that their not alive until they come out, as that's when you guys want them to be killed.>>97078512The sids rates go up at the same rate the abortion rates go down. As this is desired specifically by the religious, they must want a state of babies being born to die. Hence my conclusion of soul grinder.
>>97078507>style onlollmaoMuch like The Last Church, you zealots have made a poor showing the entire thread.>>97078512It was honestly such an unhinged assertion I didn't even bother addressing it. He seems to think christians are trying to build a Tower of Baby-el made out of the corpses of sacrificed newborns or something.Which is metal as fuck, but about as divorced from reality as one can get.
>>97078521>we've both agreed that their not alive until they come out[Citation needed]Again I'm not even religious but I find abortion to be straight up baby murder. Baby murder I'm not particularly against since the sort of people murdering their babies are the sort who deserve to have their lineage ended, but it's baby murder all the same.
>>97078521>The sids rates go up at the same rate the abortion rates go down.My man, If you build more of a product, that product will have more failures.I'm not even going to hit you with the Correlation=/= Causation
>>97078524>Y-you've made a poor showinglol, get wrecked.And I really don't see any other logical reason for the desire for mass post-birth baby death other than some kind of metal tower of babel, yeah. Either that or they're just really dumb, and I discard that because it's boring.
>>97078535Yeah, but you don't get a higher percentage of product failures. You get the same amount.>>97078533Well, the important part is that the people who believe in souls apparently want the souls to be born before they sacrifice them.
>>97078538>I-I won! H-Honest!Oof, very sad. I guess those sort of delusions are part and parcel for one as deep in dogma as yourself.
>>97078546Says the man declaring he's won after failing to understand what not being in a religion is repeatedly.
>>97078543You DO know that Christians believe that even fetuses have souls, right? Your entire strawman is built on a rotted foundation. Like all libtards you have zero theory of mind of your enemy. That's why you keep losing even to the most retarded of christfags.
>>97078548>You DO know that Christians believe that even fetuses have souls, right?They claim this, but their actions show that they don't really care about the status of the soul, other than how ripe it is.
>>97078547That's the sad thing, you're just in a non-denominational religion. Hence why you're seething so hard at a non-religious non-atheist.
>>97078556>nuh-uh!Once again, you haven't even done the due diligence to know thy enemy. You're just fed talking points by streamers and it's becoming painfully more obvious with each post.
>>97078557Oh, so you're just an ESL who doesn't know what atheist means.Agnostics are a type of atheist, anon.Unless you're saying you found an actual physical god, which I'm going to assume as that's more interesting.
this thread is like a time portal to 2006, like holy shit.
>>97078566You seem not to understand the concept of lying, or not believing someone at their word.
>>97078567>y-you're ESL!The final cope of someone who has well and truly lost on every point. I've made it clear time and time again where I stand, but since it conflicts with your dogma you keep trying to pigeonhole me into a box you can comfortably attack.
>>97078574Ironic.
>>97078581>I've made it clear time and time again where I standWhat you said in this post>>97078557is either A. you are an agnostic atheist or,B. you have found a physical god but do not worship it.This is what the words you have typed mean. You seem not to be familiar enough with english to understand this.
>>97078585I've made it pretty clear I don't believe what the christians are saying, as it differs from what they are doing.
>>97078586see >>97078463Try again. Maybe this time your incoherent flailing will actually land on something.
>>97078597This has nothing to do with what I posted.
>>97078594Yet you get assmad when people ascribe the same standards to your camp's zealotry and dogma. Ironic.
>>97078572Was it not flipped back then?
>>97078543>Yeah, but you don't get a higher percentage of product failures. You get the same amount.I found the study that I believe you think you are quoting. (which is not just about SIDS but all infant death) and over the 11 year time span that the study ran, there was about 478 infant deaths over the expected rate which is ~43 deaths per year. Tragic, but if you consider viable fetuses that would otherwise develop into full human actors to be worthy of life, then the sophie's choice here is quite clear.
>>97078606You seem to be upset that I'm correcting you on the definitions of words.
>>97078604Only because you shut out inconvenient truths, sure.
>>97078615No, I'm pretty sure you just didn't read the post.Either that or you are trying to distract from the physical god you found.
>>97078611I'm quoting an amalgamation of sids studies, not any one study.The rate per capita goes up from 10-20% within the first decade after anti-abortion policies are put into place, depending on the study.
>>970786102006-2010 was the peak of the new atheism before it fell apart ~2011-2014. Being on the internet back then, the big thing was everyone being atheist libertarians (VOTE RON PAUL).In recent years, the Internet has definitely swung far more into the theist camp in popular culture for a variety of reasons.
>>97078623though, I must admit, even among the same government body, I'll get numbers varying of hundreds of sids cases per year to tens of thousands.Definitionally this shit varies wildly, and there's a big controversy over whether to consider babies that look like they've suffocated sids or not.
When you guys address the problem of evil I'll consider coming back. Until then miss me with your gay shit
>>97078643Theres been an entire library of literature created about the subject over the millenia but a good starting point is "The Problem of Pain" by C.S.Lewis.The problem is that its a philisophical issue and a lot of these debates are between very literal minded STEM types who have no patience for Philosphy, however if the curiosity is genuine, CS Lewis is usually a good starting point due to his approachability.
>>97078625And tradcels have become 2x as cancerous since so the pendulum is swinging. It wouldn’t be so frustrating if the LARP wasn’t so obviously a spite against leftism and literally just the exact same phenomenon as fedoras, which is to say pseud dork lashing out against the “sheeple”… I mean NPCs…
>>97078660>And tradcels have become 2x as cancerous since so the pendulum is swinging.I disagree, but I am on the more conservative end so I am biased. The thing is though, I feel that the pendulum is still swinging the rightward direction so I'd still expect ~5-10 years before it starts swinging the other way.
>>97078659None of it is ever satisfying.
Remember when christianity was about THE SWORD, FAITH, AND THE CROSSNowadays we have fucking fedora christianity, defensive and snarky shit.Imagine the missionaries going into pagan lands millenia ago. Imagine their passion, conviction and rhetoric. compare with the shit we get today?I guess I have to blame women for this.
>>97078679I'm sorry, the institution has suffered the same decay all institutions have. The beliefs that were serious business a thousand years ago are historical artifacts today. Today's traditions will be historical artifacts in a thousand years.
>>97078672Well pain is an interesting subject in that even atheist philosophers have argued for its necessity (Nietzsche is a key example)The best you can accomplish is to find an argument that fits well enough for you. If there is a god: omnipotent, and omniscient, you're gonna have to wait to ask him yourself for the most satisfying answer, however.
>>97078679>Remember when xtianity was about WHAT I WANTNo. I remember Catholicism having a stronger foundation and then the no fun police that Luther spawned lead to even crazier no fun police that infected what would become the U.S.
>>97078700The only satisfying conclusion I can come to is the world is deeply uncaring about suffering.
>>97078612>You seem to be upsetYou seem to be projecting
>>97078711I feel the same way about you.
>>97078679Nothing is stopping you from an epic based RWDS crusade. You -DO- have God’s blessing to purge the evil in the world, correct? >NOOOO I’LL GET CANCELLED YOU GLOW 2 MORE WEEKS
>>97078715>no u!Case and point
>>97078719>Seething about a no-u after trying to no-ulol
>>97066247Because fedora atheism is inherently retarded. Not because it is atheist, but because it is fedora.Reading some of the Black Library books, I get very frustrated that completely reasonable and non-malicious religious characters are treated with utmost contempt because of some vague presumption that religion is just inherently evil. The Emperor is a giant golden god man on a golden throne who spawns saints and miracles throughout the Imperium, which are used to fight against evil hellspawn representing war, treachery, hedonism, and rot - but the religious character is completely wrong because religion bad.I find it reasonable that the Emperor himself was an authoritarian who wanted everyone to agree with him and hated the Chaos Gods, but it's unreasonable to have his contempt and views just copypasted onto every single Space Marine that isn't the Black Templar. None of the atheist characters ever think to themselves "hmmm, the Emperor might be a warp entity now", they just insist that religion is bad over and over again as if they were still mad their parents took them to church once too often.
>>97078745I have to ask- is lying inherently evil?Some days I think it might be, seeing the ripple consequences of even white lies.
>>97078702>muh protestantsNOChristians forgot about GODnow all they care about is fucking HOMOSEXHOMOSEX HOMOSEX HOMOSEX
>>97078725>doubling down on n-no u!Case and point
>>97078755Lying isn't even the issue. It's the difference between>"I GILLYMUN HATE RELIGION AND ALL RELIGIOUS PEOPLE, THE EMPEROR WAS JUST A DUDE"vs>"I Gillymun do not wish to worship the Emperor or be religious, but it is clear that the Emperor has ascended to a state beyond Human."One is irrationality disguised as reason, the other is keeping your principles while accepting reality.
>>97078763>Your honor, he laughed at my hypocrisy, my case is provenlol
>>97078773Lying is an issue, as if it's inherently evil then false religion is as well.And as for 40k and states beyond human, it's all so poorly written and the lines are so thin that it's legitimately hard to say. Theoretically all people could be emperorified if the psykerism genes were widespread enough and they did enough shaman combinations.
>>97078659The answers that people come to boil to three categories: pointless sophistry like "evil isn't real, it's just the absence of god" (just redefining terms to weasel out of it; why is God not handling this absence?), just giving up via "well you can't really say evil exists, God is the ultimate moral authority and if he's okay with the state of the world it can't be evil" (internally consistent but impossible to take seriously) or some variety of "God doesn't have to be internally consistent if he's omnipotent" (just makes you look like a retard). It's a legendary problem for a reason- it's not difficult to solve, you just need to stop wanting your cake and have it too, which Christians are physically incapble of doing.
>>97078745>Reading some of the Black Library books, I get very frustratedWell yeah, actively reading Black Library is like laying under an elephant while it's shitting. All of the writers are insufferable faggots and write exclusively for an audience of insufferable faggots. That's been Warhammer lore in general for about three decades at this point.
>>97078793>false religionThere's more to religion than just "true vs false", there are entire philosophies and moral systems behind it. Even if everything Jesus said is theologically false, you're still left with everything else he said - which is why he was so popular to begin with.This is a mistake that many missionaries make too. They open with the>DID YOU KNOW JESUS DIED FOR YOUR SINSline, not realizing that such a concept only matters if you believe in that first, it's not an actual argument. And it's the same with atheists>BUT WHAT IF IT'S ALL MADE UPis only meaningful if you think it was made up and haven't gained anything from the religion.
>>97078755I told my cousin he has no reason to kill himself even though has is pushing 40 living with his grandparents having never had stable employment despite being completely mentally and physically fit to work. He is objectively a burden on his family and everyone in his life would be better off if he were dead by his own hand. All anyone would feel is relief However, I have a moral opposition to suicide so I told him the lie.
>>97075573Atheism, at least in its modern post-1900 incarnation, might as well be a religious belief system in and of itself. It has dogma, it has preaching, it has congregations, and it has central propagating figures. Rather than "In God we trust" it's "In science/Dawkins we trust".
Who paints more and who graytides more? Christians or atheists?
>>97075573Being vague or even morally nihilists is still a belief system. Zero is a number.
>>97078837>god exists because I don't like Dawkins99.99% of atheists are nothing like you describe. You don't even realize that they are atheists when you meet them because they won't tell you because they don't consider it part of their identity. You just cannot model a non-religious mind inside your own head.
>>97078670The pendulum is swinging though. It’s why faggots are saying it’s like le reddit in here whereas 5 years ago there would be no pushback or else you’d be called a tranny.
>>97078821This might have been evil.
>>9707887799.99% of atheists aren't the ones who are being discussed in this thread.>wow X is so annoying>UM EXCUSE ME, X IS PART OF Y AND Y ISN'T ALL LIKE THAT, CHECKMATE
>>97078837>They're DOGMATIC for laughing at me!What response do you want when you act crazy if not laughter?>>97078904I mean, if we're going by this thread than religionfags are far more annoying, they posted the op just to seethe.
>>97078775Ironic
>>97078881You can't really defend religion AND call someone a tranny without some pretty strong parallels being drawn.
>>97078877>9.99% of atheists are nothing like you describeWe aren't talking about regular atheists, but reddit atheists whose core identity revolves around atheism. It's like how 99.99% of christians aren't like aggressive fundamentalist christians.
>>97078775You know what. I am tired of arguing a point I clearly have lost and descending more and more into petulant nonsense over it. I am wrong and I apologize to you. Do you forgive me?
>>97078913shit, first atheist and now you don't know what ironic means.Either that or you're still trying to distract from that living god you found.
>>97078923Laughing at someone isn't the same as feeling wrath towards someone, anon.
>>97078877>god cannot exist because dawkins said soAtheism itself is a statement of belief, the belief that there isn't a god. The actual lack-of-belief system is Agnosticism. You don't believe there's a god, nor do you believe there isn't one. You have no belief on the matter. You're theologically Swiss.
>>97078985Agnosticism is a sub-category of atheism by definition.
In this thread, Christians cope with being converted into the ethnic servitors of a "chosen people" master race by lashing out at the people laughing at them.
>>97078922Dawkins and his crowd has never pushed for trannyism or whatever demonic things are currently going on with libtards sterilizing children for fun and whatnot.'Christfags would rather grumble and mumble about how Dawkins said mean things about them years ago than actually stand up to evil shit that is going on.
>>97078986Agnosticism predates atheism.
>>97078999>Dawkins and his crowd has never pushed for trannyism or whatever demonic things are currently going onYes they did. Dawkins has specifically called out religion for being "oppressive" toward gay people. Guys like Jon Stewart, Sam Harris and Neil Tyson have done the same.
>>97079001Agnosticism is, by definition, a sub category of atheism.If you don't believe there is a god, you are atheist. Anyone without belief in a god or gods is an atheist. Religions that focus on philosophy and not gods are atheist. Animals are atheist. Rocks are atheist.
>>97079001Really? What god are monkeys unsure about?
in this thread, people started by laughing at the emperor's debate with the priest for being poorly writtenand then they proceeded to have the discussion above, with no apparent irony or self-awareness
>>97079009I'm not talking about fucking gay people you fucking retard. Why the hell do you care about gay people so much? Just leave the gays alone? Why is that so hard for you?
>>97079017it seems to be mostly one guy REFUSING to use the correct definition of atheist.
>>97079017Yeah fundamentalists are pretty wild
>>97079011Theism = I believe there is a godAtheism = I believe there is no godAgnosticism = I do not believe either wayYou can be an Agnostic Atheist or Agnostic Theist, because Agnosticism is distinct from Atheism and Theism.
>>97079041Whats the word for "The idea of god has never even occurred to me cause the concept of god hasn't been invented yet." That seems like it should be it's own distinct thing.
>>97079041Yes, agnosticism is fucking retarded. Like who the fuck stands up and yells "I HAVE NO OPINION ON THIS". Shut the fuck up.
>>97079011Dipshit, atheism is a stance on whether you're theistic (have one or more gods) and agnostic is a stance on whether you're gnostic (claim to have absolutely correct knowledge and couldn't be wrong)You can be both, neither or either one. (Though only the biggest morons claim to be truly gnostic: Gods truth is absolute but your ability to understand and interpret it is still human and fallible)Oh and neither of those stances dictate if you're religious or areliglious. You can be a religious agnostic atheist if you're a Buddhist, or an areliglious gnostic theist if you're a fucking weirdo who claims absolute knowledge a god exists but doesn't worship him.
>>97079068Gnosticism is fucking retarded. Who the fuck stands up and yells "MY OPINION IS PERFECT AND INFALLIBLE". Shut the fuck up.
>>97079081This is what they do over at the university's philosophy department. Inventing 72 different genders and 42 different ways to be non-religious. So many words!Just defund these clowns and put the money into STEM.
>>97079113>extremely fucking basic concepts that have been around longer than Christianity
>>97079113>reading hard>too hard for me>others should be dumb as IAstounding.
>>97079041>Agnosticism is distinct from atheismIf you don't believe in god, then you do not believe in god.Agnostics do not actively believe in a god, therefore they do not believe in god.They are atheists. I can't believe I have to break it down to you like this.
>>97079081Anon, nobody is talking about the agnostic religious. The religious pride themselves on not being agnostic about it.
>>97078999>Dawkins and his crowd has never pushed for trannyism or whatever demonic things are currently going on with libtards sterilizing children for fun and whatnot.'They literally have thobeightall
>>97075500What's it matter when the Pope is a heretic?
>>97072312go the fuck back to your containment board you slack jawed retard faggot
>>97066247It's not a deconstruction of anything, it is totally sincere. Like all gaytheists Mcneill has to set up arguments in his head and he still manages to lose them.
>>97066485>The Emperor brings up the Crusades, and Inquisition as examples of how religion is bad and destructive to humanity, while Major Bloodfuck the Omnicider stand guard outside.And in-universe, the emperor was responsible for those as well as every other major religious and secular war
>>97077503Not all atheists are scientifically minded, though. I know lots of atheist anti-vaxxers who don't believe in medical science.
>>97078548Not all Christians. US Protestants only started believing that after the civil rights act.
>>97078625I think it's about to swing out of the theist camp again.
>>97078815Yeah, that's why there've been several christian movements with a lot of interest in buddhist philosophy. Where christianity is all about resisting temptations and focuses on good vs evil, buddhism focuses more on how to let go of temptation in the first place and training your willpower and wisdom to gain a greater perspective. It's astoundingly compatible.
>>97078815>There's more to religion than true vs falseBut that's a pretty important part. If only one god is real, that should matter a lot.
>>97078837Nope. Like I said, lots of anti-science atheists.
>>97079677Non-Catholic Christians aren't real Christians. t. Italian
>>97080304Yup. And certain branches of Christianity (Nestorianism) were influenced by Buddhist thought.
>>97079211Casually yes. A lot of atheists are also what you might call "casually" gnostic, that is to say, confident in their stance.That said, you have to be a complete moron to hear the dry academic definition of gnosticism and still go "Yes my knowledge is perfect, my human mind could never be misinterpreting anything about god."
>>97078985Technically atheism is a "failure to be convinced by religions" state, and is essentially the default because each religion makes highly specific claims.Actively claiming "There is definitely no god" rather than "I don't think there's a god because you've not been very convincing" is Antitheism.
>>97081363I'm not sure why you are even considering such navel gazing, it's as pointless as solopsism.Oh no, what if you're a figment of my imaginaaaation- that shit doesn't matter.
>>97081444A faithful who has never gone through the process of analysing their own beliefs and thoughts down to the core is a tenuous faithfull, only riding along on emotions and loose "that sounds good". Maybe something else will feel right and sound good later.An atheist who hasn't done this work is also fickle and emotional with no grounding and no ability to say they have true conviction.Either way, such basic understanding of yourself is a valuable toolset and doesn't really take all that long to learn if you have parents or advisors who aren't reactive dipshits, rare as that may be.Yes much of out in the weeds philosophy is navel gazing bullshit, but dissecting your own belief structures and knowing yourself is just the basic homework needed to not be a sheep.
>>97081463Anon, discussion on whether or not we are in real reality, or whether you are a hallucination, or whether the world is a hallucination, or any of that is inherently pointless. You and I have both agreed that it doesn't matter, and have chosen to interact with the world as if it were real. Everyone who breathes, speaks, eats, or anything like that agrees that what they are seeing, what they are feeling, is real enough to act on.
>>97081470Yes. And that's relevant to being aware you don't have perfect knowledge how? You aren't an omniscient being.Zooming out from any specific position on religion it becomes clear that if an omniscient being exists only they can provide perfect information and you could still misinterpret it. If a non omniscient god exists then even they can be wrong, though likely have better perspective than humans. If no god exists then you always have room to learn and grow.The takeaway is not "herp derp maybe we're in a simulation", it's have the basic humility to know you can always learn and refine and improve your understanding of the world and yourself.
>>97081494Improving oneself has nothing to do with a rational assessment of some omnipotent being, especially ones advertised by existing religious groups.One can look at these and note their deep, deep flaws and conclude that they are bullshit as readily as one can conclude the sun will come up tomorrow, and every day for quite a while after that.
>>97081532>A few honest months of training yourself to have a rational mind leads to less chance of believing in god>Organised churches discourage people from developing a rigorous understanding of their own beliefs and tell them to JUST FEEL THE VIBEGee I wonder if these could be related? Nah must be coincidence atheists are just hateful assholes
>>97081556And this has even further less to do with the argument at hand than your previous stab.
>>97081581Yes anon, I would definitely undermine advocating for people developing basic healthy mental toolsets with a snide jab at my own faith.
>>97081592We're not talking about the masses ability to make rational arguments or judgements, we're talking about whether or not such judgements COULD be made, which is an easy fucking yes.
>>97081595What conversation have you been having? Mine was about justifying having a basic understanding of yourself and how you think as far more useful and important than the "navel gazing" you accused it of being.Maybe don't make such accusations if you aren't ready to provoke a defence?
>>97081605I accused you of bringing up useless naval gazing concepts like "Is the world reeeeal, man?!?" as a method of distracting from the point at hand, an accusation you've only confirmed.The discussion being that an agnostic is an atheist in every kind of modern parlance, as a major point of the religious archetype is being gnostic as fuck.
>>97081614Well, I didn't bring up a single navel gazing concept you could actually point to, hence your need to use things like "whoa what if we're in a simulation" instead, so there's that.And no, in casual parlance an agnostic isn't an atheist, it's a sort of wishy washy in between state of "well maybe a god I dunno man".
>>97081646>I didn't bring up a single navel gazing conceptYour response to "You have made an error in language" was "But how can you KNOW that your brain is accurate", you dishonest fuck.>Well, maybe god, I dunno manThis is someone who does not believe in god. Hence, maybe god, instead of yes god.
>>97081657>>97081646in fact, the technical term for someone who just doesn't know whether gods are real or not is an "agnostic atheist"
>>97081657I was already talking about the importance of knowing you don't have perfect information or perfect reasoning skills when you attacked my position, you gibbering idiot. If you just wanted to talk about casual Vs academic definitions of atheism/theism, agnosticism/gnosticism, religious/areliglious then you should have devoted more word count to that and less to non-sequiturs incorrectly accusing me of useless impractical philosophy.And no anon, that's a person who lacks *faith* in a god. They're neutral on belief. Yes those are different things even in casual language.
>>97081670An agnostic atheist is without gods.An agnostic who goes to church sometimes and defaults to a specific god as their "maybe" rather than the general idea of gods is an agnostic Christian. Hedging their bets on a specific god they're unsure of, lack faith in but are unable to decide if they believe in.
>>97081682>I was doing impractical philosophy before you were hereBoth humorous and a lie.>they're neutral on beliefThis is a binary toggle. If it's anything less than "yes", it is non belief.
>>97081689Maybe is not yes. You either believe or you don't and are hedging bets.I don't BELIEVE I'll win the lottery, but I still might buy a ticket to hedge my bets. I'd be very foolish to believe I'll win.
>>97081691The very post you first butted in on to accuse me of "navel gazing" was already breaking down the academic definitions of atheism Vs gnosticism with a focus on how knowing your own beliefs benefits your life.>belief is a binary Were that true, there are no casual definition agnostics and there never have been. The word would be useless were that the case.
>>97081702The word is generally useless, and is mostly used by people trying to avoid being associated with one group or another despite being definitionally incorrect.
>>97081696Maybe is not no. If someone had any confidence in their lack of belief they wouldn't be trying to keep it good with the Lord.
>>97081713You don't need confidence in a lack of belief. A lack of belief is any state of belief other than believing. You either believe, or you do not.
>>97081696Do you believe you CAN'T win the lottery?
>>97081720Chances are so slim as to make it effectively impossible, and discounted as a possibility for anything other than fantasy purposes.And the chance of me winning the lottery is -way- higher than selecting the chance of any of the described godly beings existing.
>>97081718The fact that you are aware there's STATES of belief means you know damn well there aren't only two points on the scale.
>>97081722Literally all points on the scale besides "yes I believe" are not believing, anon.
>>97081721You're making a rounding error, at least in your choice of language. It's not effectively impossible, it's *impractical.*
>>97081728No, if I kept purchasing these tickets for my entire life at a substantial cut of average wage, I'd never win the lottery.The only time it moves up from effectively impossible to impractical is if I am A. wealthy or B. can live long enough to keep playing the lottery for thousands of years.
>>97081732>>97081728doing some quick math, buying 50 tickets a day for 16,000 years should move it up to impractical.
>>97081725Even your own language on the matter refutes this. What you should be saying is "Any state other than complete belief is not complete belief" which is both uselessly tautological and no proof of the scale being only two state.If a nun who's been in a convent for 30 years starts having uncomfortable doubts she's working to smooth out and erase, is she an atheist until she finishes grappling with those doubts? Either you have to answer yes or your entire point about binary belief is nonsense.
>>97081732>>97081735Then you have no fucking clue what "impossible" means.
>>97081740Probably, yeah. It depends on the nature of her doubt.If it's serious doubt as to the very existence of god, then yes absolutely. This is the kind of doubt that leads to the commonality of entirely secular preachers of various religions.
>>97081743Sorry I didn't copy/paste effectively in front of impossible the second time, you anal retentive simp.
>>97081749No no, the "effectively" doesn't matter in this context and you should know that. My reply would have been identical."Effectively impossible" is a colloquialism for unlikely. Which means you either have to admit that you don't actually entirely believe you can't win lottery or you have to admit you're trying to use "effectively impossible" to just mean impossible.
>>97081762>effectively doesn't matter in this contextNo, it matters quite a lot, which even you know as per >"Effectively impossible" is a colloquialism for unlikely.you anal retentive simp.
>>97081766>>97081762And no, I don't actually believe I can win the lottery, at least within my lifespan. I'd be a fool to. That's even without going into the details of how often they're rigged.A lottery ticket is purchasing a fantasy.
>>97081766Then you admit your belief you can't win a lottery isn't binary? Because not trying to cheat effectively impossible and impossible into being synonyms would mean that.
>>97081779>No, I do not believe I can win the lottery>Then you admit it isn't binary?That's the opposite of what I said in that post.And in previous posts, I in fact said any state of belief under "yes" is a state of non belief.
>>97081776No anon, what you're saying there is "I would be a fool to invest in lottery tickets because the chance of winning is hopelessly low".
>>97081791I'd be a fool to believe I'll win it, yeah. It's effectively impossible.
>>97081788Oh you're the *same* idiot, that clears up your uniquely mangled language. Thank you.
>>97081796Keeping track of conversations must be very challenging for you.
>>97081793You would be a fool to believe you *will* win, but you are also a fool to believe you literally cannot.
>>97081805No, I'm pretty certain that no matter how many I buy over my lifetime, I cannot.You're free to try to prove me wrong, but it'd be a grand waste of money.
>>97081808I don't need to spend any money to prove you wrong on "cannot", I just need to point to lottery winners.Would I say it's reasonable to play weekly and say "I know I will not ever win the lottery" with high but imperfect confidence? Yes.Would I say it's reasonable to say "I am not capable of winning the lottery"? Obviously no.
>>97081816It'd be reasonable to say you aren't capable of winning the lottery unless you can live 16,000 years though.This statement will almost certainly be true every time it's said.
>>97081821"Almost certainly" yes. We clearly agree on the facts, we're just struggling on definition.Ok, let's try this: Can we agree that *actual specific language aside*>There is a spectrum of states of confidence in a proposition>There is also situational value in being able to draw a line between holding high confidence in a proposition and any state other than high confidence
>>97081838both of these are true, however unfortunately belief is set up in our language to be a binary y/n toggle. You either believe, or you do not and are hoping to be surprised.
>>97081847Ok, well I've been using belief to convey the former proposition, and you've been using it to convey the latter.Do you have terminology you would use to define the former proposition? If so I can consent to using it for clarity.If not, I would consider the conversation usefully concluded if we can at least mutually realise what the other person was fucking talking about the whole time.
>>97081851I've not got any better terminology for you, I'm working with english over here.
>>97081864Eh, close enough. We both learned something however small.You should probably consider whether using terminology a little broader when there's more than one meaning to cover is valuable though.
>>97081878We'll have to develop one, as you can either believe in a thing, or not believe in it.
>>97066553That's impossible for the simple reason that few ever did anything "for the sake of" atheism. Atheism/Agnoticism cannot even be fought for because it is the absence of position.You have murderers who happen to be Atheist/AgnosticAnd you have worldwide genocide made in the name of <insert any religion>>communismIs unrelated to atheism. The power that be just wanted to remove cults they did not control.
>>97081899Now now, I'm pretty sure more people have died to tripping and dying than any war.Which means they were in fact killed by an atheist- either the ground or gravity, depending on your legal system.
>>97068646>Big E is an "atheist" despite the fact he literally exists in a setting with demon manifestations, psychics, and no less than 7 gods,Did any of those "god" create the universe or even work unchallenged from outside the universe?Why would you worship an alien that just happen to be able to manipulate reality with their minds when it's apparently a common occurrence?Big E fathers were a bunch of shamans and so what?We don't choose our parent, not his fault he was born out of an esoteric laws of physics.And can't blame him for trying the best he knew to keep a bunch of super psychics from annihilating mankind as a civilization.
>>97081919I've yet to see anyone make a really good case for worshipping almost any god, really.The chaos ones fuck you over. Emperor's not powerful enough to help you. Essentially all of them suck besides gork and mork. And you can't worship those if you're a human, I think. I don't think digganobs get into the ork reincarnation cycle.
>>97081906Gotta have a mind to have a stance on a proposition.As for communism, Marx effectively killed a ton of people by putting his ideas out into the world in their messy, incomplete, radicalising form. And every communist government since has formed a ruling class in direct opposition to the whole fucking point of shooting for communal equality.Anarchy doesn't fucking work because even if you get a bunch of people to agree to it, and in fairness if it's a small enough group working in enough isolation it might even function, there's nothing stopping better organised people from coming in and kicking their faces in and taking their stuff.So we know totalitarian socialism doesn't work and anarchistic socialism doesn't work. We also know anarchistic right wing positions are cultish gibberish and totalitarian right wing positions... Yeah.The only conclusion? Stay firmly in the middle ground on the totalitarian to libertarian scale because minimisation of human suffering can only exist there.
>>97081932>gotta have a mind to have a stance on a propositionAtheism is the lack of a stance. A lack of belief. Mindless things don't believe in anything, and are thus atheists.
>>97081919The emperors mistake, at least the retarded version we got in the heresy novels (which I think make for a poor interpretation of the legends we had before, but I digress...), is in presenting himself as the centre of a cult of personality.He was completely correct that Lorgar was a useless little bitch obsessed with being important but not responsible (first being the son of the man he propped up as god, second by starting the heresy but not having the balls to step up and try to lead it), but frankly he should have gone further by acknowledging the decision was between taking him under his wing to manually reshape his priorities, or just killing the fucker and being done with it.
>>97081906Is that sarcasm, misread me or it's too deep for me?Objects or force of nature can't have opinions unless I've missed some serious First contact.In any case, being killed by deist/atheist/agnotisc =/= being killed in the name of deism.
>>97081938It's a stance, it's just not a proactive one."I am not convinced."As opposed to antitheism "I am convinced not", which is technically a subset of atheism in that both are not convinced of a god, but more millitantly inclined.A rock does not have the capacity to hold the stance of being unconvinced.
>>97081953Not convinced isn't a stance. You can tell, because even rocks aren't convinced.>>97081952Objects can easily have a lack of opinion.
>>97081978>>97081953Is it possible for a rock to hold any state of being convinced other than "unconvinced"?
>>97081990You're using a different type of "un" for unconvinced humans and unconvinced rocks.An unconvinced human has numerical value 0, or otherwise negligibly low value on the scale.An unconvinced rock cannot have a position on the scale.>I still want to nitpick thisLook can you just skip ahead to the part of the conversation where this hair has been sufficiently split for you to acknowledge the semantic difference?
>>97082004I'm sorry anon, you've run into the exact same problem as before.Anything that is not convinced is unconvinced.
>>97082012Yes yes yes.However.Two different types of un, which you didn't even address.
>>97082045Because they're not different types of un.
>>97082048>Nuh uhThank you for the free win I guess.
>>97081990Category error. They're incapable of the activity. Rocks are incapable of having convictions of any variety. It can be used in a humorous manner to anthropomorphize a rock but not as a >convincing method of argument.
>>97077831>Felons shouldn't hold office thoughSo the communists
>>97068727yeah because they failed to root religion out, not because its compatible with religion
>>97066565modern secular war casualties say otherwise atheist slime
>>97066946It literally was a secular ideology that hated religion you dummy
>>97082128>free winNo, they're just literally the same type of un.You may WANT them to be different, but unconvinced just means not convinced, which includes all inanimate rocks.
>>97082397No, rocks are very capable of being unconvinced. All you need to be to be unconvinced is to be not convinced.>>97083893>>9708391299.9999999% of all things are happening to atheists and by atheists. The religious are a rounding error.
