Are Firmin a new 3e thing? I swear I remember reading some homebrew about them but I never saw them in a 1e or 2e book. Am I wrong? Did someone manage to get some homebrew in the new edition? Cus they are pretty cool.

Am I nuts or is this franchise completely lacking a proper bestiary?

>>97075607
They are in 1e Games of Divinity and 2e Roll of Glorious Divinity II.

>>97075694
Nothing complete, critters exist across dozens of sourcebooks.

>>97075598
>TQ: We have infernals! Let's talk about it. What do we think?
I'm a fan of Awareness. The charm in your pic is cool, but I also like the touch-sense ones where you can feel if someone is an imposter at a distance. Excited for Mind-Hand Manipulation's write up to get the full effect.

Archery's capstone isn't the best charm ever, but calling down a hailstorm of infinite arrows across the battlefield is definitely cool.

>>97075694
Hundred Devils Night Parade (Collected Edition)
closest you'll find to a creatures book

>>97075694
For which edition?

1e had Creatures of the Wyld (not just from the Wyld).

2e dispersed this across numerous books. It mostly redoes everything that was in 1e in a different organizational scheme.

3e has Adversaries of the Righteous and Hundred Devils Night Parade.

Don't got the password for Proton, here or in the last thread

I still dislike that that its impossible for the Yozi to escape rather than saying its almost impossible and would probably take a million years. And for all you whining that even then the Reclamation would still dominate the game then that's a problem with your GM focusing on it rather than one of the other Creation ending threats.

>>97076110
Ex3 starts with a fluff piece about how it was impossible for the Exalted to otherthrow the Primordials, to master the highest levels of sorcery, and to escape the Jade Prison.

>>97076110

Well, going by the previews it sounds like the yozi are basically lobotomised anyhow and can't even coherently talk to their own third circles, so.

I also hear they stripped the animism out of the setting? No least gods any more? Not sure what the point of taking over a setting is if your aren't going to respect it's metaphysics.

>>97076148
The least gods are there, but they rolled back the 2e-ness of them being literal dudes and just being essentially non-sentient lower souls what exist to align with destiny

Do we have close ups of the Infernal Caste marks?

>>97076148
>Well, going by the previews it sounds like the yozi are basically lobotomised anyhow and can't even coherently talk to their own third circles, so.
Yeah and i hate that nonsense as well

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>>97076176
Not yet, pic related is Azimuth

What happens to an Infernal if a Dragonblood uses Blazing Purification Chant on them? Are they straight-up immune because the possessing demon is fully fused into their soul and Exaltation, or does it depend on how deep into the Devil-Tiger tree they are?

Also, the Cell of Self-Scrutiny is totally the Caul from Mage the Ascension, isn't it?

>>97076204
The Unwoven isn't a possession, it's part of their exaltation. No effect

>>97076203
I appreciate that looks different to the Azimuth caste mark on the wiki, and a fan one online, both of which take "with the larger diagonal cross rays
emphasizing a center without a circle." to mean the diagonals cross inside the outer circle.

>>97075598
>What do we think?
I think that Athletics is incredibly based.
javascript:quote

>>97074812
I'd dispute that mainly because of how easy it is to churn out N/A artifacts compared to Ambition 3 Solar Workings, but we don't have an example N/A artifact in 3e yet so it's tricky to compare.

>>97076204
>totally the Caul
It does not mention a possibility of turning someone into a Nephandus, no.

>>97076148
I would characterise the Yozis of 3e as less lobotomised and more ultimately defeatist and complacent, personally. The fact that possibilities for communing with Infernals are listed at all shows me they're capable of complex thoughts and desires still, it's just that in 3e the Ebon Dragon didn't succeed at talking anyone round to a Reclamation/didn't want to share his escape plans/is genuinely content with just kind of dicking around, so all the Yozis are just kind of sullenly lashing out at each other aimlessly. And the Infernal Exaltation is more of a spiteful fuck-you to Creation and Yu-Shan than an actual coherent mission with objectives, predicated on the Infernals' own spite.

>>97076224
>It does not mention a possibility of turning someone into a Nephandus, no.
Wouldn't that literally just be a Definining Investiture, which the Cell of Self-Scrutiny can do since it's a Third Circle Demon?

>>97075859
Each element of the URL must be entered independently to decipher the code. At the end, the last part (of the letters and numbers), must be placed, and each one added to the end reveals a part of the manuscript.
So:

(1) drive | (2) dot | (3) proton | (4) dot | (5) me | (6) slash | (7) urls | (8) slash | (9) Letter and number code.
=

>>97076302
...maybe but I don't want to be there for the argument with a gobsmacked ST about whether or not oWoD mage powers qualify as a valid Solar Working-level feat. Besides, Infernals can't grant 'em anyway.

>Temporal efficiency Optimization (Craft 5, Essence 2)
>The Infernal can pay a four-mote, one-Willpower surcharge to complete most superior or legendary projects in 6-Essence) weeks. Creating a five-dot or N/A artifact or manse takes that many months instead.
Oh.
Oh my.

>Who Strikes The Wind? (Dodge fucking 1, Essence fucking 1)
>The Infernal IGNORES penalties to Evasion from external source: onslaught penalties, environmental penalties, and the like
>If the Infernal successfully dodges an attack, she adds one die on the next attack roll, rush, or disengage she makes against her attacker
OH. OH MY.
Yeah 3e core just looks embarrassing by comparison.

>>97075598
>We have infernals! Let's talk about it. What do we think?
Sweet gods, please no more. Were were talking about them before crowdfunding we talked about them after it started and manuscript got leaked. I'm tiried boss.

Please, let's find other topic.

>>97076432
It actually took a surprisingly long time for 3e Infernals to actually be discussed

>>97076432
I think we've talked about Lunars enough, don't you?

>>97075598
What's going on here?

>>97076450
Dude stole something, Infernal is using an awareness charm to make eyes to search for him

>Exodus Beyond Eternity
Okay, that's easily the coolest "you get a free Excellency" Charm ever written. Tossing someone you dodge well enough into the Endless Desert is cool.

>>97076155
Sounds like one thing where 3E actually did go back to 1E.

>>97076432
We can find another topic once the crowdfunding campaign is over and the previews are all out.

>>97076407
>>97076429
Gay and lame. At least now we have an excuse to demand updates to core

>>97076502
Please include >>97076471 in the gay and lame critique because frankly it makes all the other free excellency Charms look gayer and lamer by not rewarding the user with an interesting effect.

>>97076508
I don't think that's interesting though. I don't think it should be in the game

>Loom-Snarling Deception
>The Infernal assumes a fictitious identity and a false destiny of her own imagining, instantly making a disguise roll. She needs no equipment, instead physically transforming her body. She can increase or reduce her height by up to ten inches; increase or decrease her weight by up to 10%; alter her apparent age; change or remove sexual characteristics; change skin tone, eye color, and hair color and length; and make cosmetic changes like adding scars or birthmarks.
>She may choose to retain physical alterations after this Charm ends.

Lunars utterly BTFO by Infernal shapeshifting in a single charm

>>97076528
>Fate-Rending Desperation
And yet another Charm that drives home how overblown God-King's Shrike really is. Special credit to the looser definition of "winning a notable victory over him" as a condition meaning the Infernal could theoretically stop God-King's Shrike from coming to pass by fucking the offending Solar's wife.

The more you post, the more convinced I am that funding this was bad for the game

>>97076528
>Lunars BTFO for three editions and two decades straight
I seriously don't know how there's any Lunar fans left. You'd think they'd all have an hero'd by now.

>>97076531
GSK was always a shitty charm

>>97076471
>Tossing someone you dodge well enough into the Endless Desert is cool.
Oh, didn't they mention that this kind of stuff was ruining the game line?

I remember people complaining about how "Solars throwing somebody so hard that they are sent to another plane of existence" was bad wrong fun that shouldn't be repeated.

>>97076569
I agree, it's just funny to see everyone and their mother band together to kick it while it's down.

>>97076545
To be fair, WHEN has funding anything about this game been good for the game?

>>97076575
It's okay when their baby splat does it

>>97076575
They DID, didn't they? They sure were trying to downplay Infernal associations with the Yozis in the marketing up to these drafts. DIDN'T. THEY. I cannot stress enough I am largely won over by Infernals so far because I see it as the devs bending the knee to me. Personally. And being utterly vindicated in terms of Charm preferences if nothing else.

I am fucking amused. They're going all out to pander to me, specifically, and have given me back Devil-Tigers in all but name and full narrative.

>>97076580
Nah, 3e's baby is Sidereals. Other anon got it right, I think they're just tying to milk all the money they can out of this.

>>97076407
>>97076429
is this a bit, these are 3e core charms

>>97076583
You sound insufferable

>>97076528
>Lunars utterly BTFO by Infernal shapeshifting in a single charm
It is similar to Solar's superhumanism; since it is the main gimmick, it is spread thin all over, ending up as both bloated and inefficient.

>>97076587
Okay, I'm gonna rape you now.

>>97076587
None of you exactly sound charming either.

>>97076580
They did an AMA about Infernals, and after the controversies with Essence, it is obvious that they are with their backs to the wall.

>>97076612
Fuck yeah, this is justice.

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>>97076407
This would be Thousand-Forge Hands from 3e core.
>>97076429
This is slightly worse Shadow Over Water from 3e core for a lower Dodge dot requirement.
>>97076528
That's just Many-Faced Moon Transformation from Lunars.

>>97076612
[citation needed]

>>97076634
>That's just Many-Faced Moon Transformation from Lunars.
Infernal one makes the changes optional and has no WP cost. It's the same charm but strictly better

>>97076639
Once their preview dropped, the rpgnet thread had to be deleted.

And they are the only splat that got an AMA.

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>>97076634
>slightly worse

>>97076429
>>If the Infernal successfully dodges an attack, she adds one die on the next attack roll, rush, or disengage she makes against her attacker
people will totally remember that in an actual game

>>97076704
The Solar charm removes all penalties period, no matter the source, while the Infernal charm only removes external penalties

>>97076658
The Lunar one has the key difference of not requiring motes to be committed, as it is an instant charm.
>>97076679
So a thread that may or may not be real had a slap fight in it? Riveting stuff.
>>97076704
Yes; you need to spend 8-10 more XP to make it ignore wound penalties, crippling effects, and so on. I genuinely have to ask, no judgment or anything: did you read 3e core/has it been so long that you've forgotten what is in it?

>>97076736
>The Lunar one has the key difference of not requiring motes to be committed, as it is an instant charm.
I'd take committed motes and mute over a WP cost any day, but fair point

>>97076758
It's not that hard to get WP back

Did they get rid of the benefit for Solars and evocations, besides being resonant with all materials?

>>97076736
>So a thread that may or may not be real had a slap fight in it? Riveting stuff.
They had to lock the thread, the new one even mentions it in its title.
They reworked Infernals a bit to avoid new flame wars.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/exalted-essence-thread-2-reborn-in-resplendent-emerald-flames.885968/

>>97076719
Infernals seems to be more aggressive Solars, since they gain an attack bonus.

I think it is similar to how Abyssals are less mobile Solars.

>>97076857
Well, I found the first thread:

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/exalted-exalted-essence-merged.856038/page-43

>As this thread is over 2000 posts, it's time for a new one. Please create a new thread, then report this one so we can lock it.

A quick check of RPG.net's rules confirms that is standard operating procedure for the site at large. I think you've greatly misremembered what happened in that thread.

>Infernals are more aggressive Solars.
Can somebody post green nimbus flare? I want to know if it is different from its CoL version

Honestly, the fanmade 3e Infernals was better. Yeah I might be biased I don't care.

>>97076934
I think it is a question of hero fantasy, the homebrew feels more like avatar of demons.

I've just realised that Investigation and Larceny are like Dodge and Archery. Opposites that you use against each other. Huh

>>97077242
DSPwoooooooow.ogg

>>97076528
If height can be changed by as much as ten inches then weight should be able to be changed by more than just 10%

>>97076471
Wait, where the fuck is that? Can't find it in any of the manuscripts.

Anyone has new Infernal draft?

>>97077537
Dimensional analysis was never a strong suit with the freelancers that WW/OP hired.

I need ideas for artifacts that bypass the combat rules and just straight up kill people. The lower dots the better.

Example:
>A pillow that, when stepped on, launches you 3 rangebands up into the air

>>97076396
Mages are a Terrestrial-level Exalt. There's an optional Exalt type in Exigents that is heavily implied to be early Mages.

The Solar Working would lie in altering their Exaltation from primarily Wyld-focused to demon-focused.

>>97078859
Dream-Souled are connected to Dreamlings.
And arc mages can do some crazy stuff.

>>97078859
>Mages are a Terrestrial-level Exalt
>muh Voormas
>muh powers that actually scale with age
>muh Exemplars
>muh umbral gods
>muh archmages
>muh Ascension
Is it finally time for Exalted to get cocky enough to challenge mages again? Also even discounting elder bullshit I have a hard time imagining a Terrestrial level Exalt pulling off the Correspondence/Entropy bullshit like co-location or Binding Oath (which for all intents and purposes is straight up an Eclipsoid-style oath)

>>97079259
3e also leveled the Exalted down by making the making of Exaltations a mere trick

>>97079259
>even discounting elder bullshit I have a hard time imagining a Terrestrial level Exalt pulling off the Correspondence/Entropy bullshit like co-location
One of the Dream-Souled's Essence 1 charms (with no prerequisites) lets them quantum superposition themselves to any potential hiding spot within Short range as long as nobody is looking at them, and they can straight-up teleport at Essence 3. There's also Artifacts and Sorcery.

>Binding Oath
Sorcerous spells and workings can accomplish many effects like this. Corrupted Words is an obvious one, but tossing a curse on a person or organisation that activates if they ever break a specific oath seems possible to me.

>>97079259
What kind of stupid wank shit is this? Shut the fuck up. I have a rule right here that says mages are faggots and lose.

>>97079857
>I have a rule right here that says mages are faggots and lose.
Oh, nega Dave B? What are you doing outside the abyss?

>>97079927
I don't know who the hell that is, but I do know that you have to be dumb as rocks to come into the wrong general and start power wank bullshit

>>97080096
Dave B was 2e Awakening dev, infamous for magefagging.

The abyss is the unreality from Mage the Awakening, where impossible things "exist".

>>97076583

The kinds of writers who think Sidereals are their favorite/best splat are insufferable.

Devil-Tigers were still better than this.

>Favorite splat.
I think their favorite is Realm, not even the terrestrials who made it, but the Realm itself.

3e settings books are the Realm, and the rest (Across the 8 directions).

>>97080200
The entire game is designed around the idea of Solars being forced to sneak around in the Realm.

>>97080211
Yes, but the Realm is the less popular region to play in.

>>97080211
I dunno about sneak around. There's a startup period where you might do that, functioning somewhat like adventurers, but I don't think it sticks with the idea.

I really like the war that broke out when the Yozi were sealed, I really enjoy the Great Contagion infecting the Yozi and their response to it, and I really love all these interesting Hell places that you can visit.

I rather like all the hell star lore as well, quite nice. No clue wtf I'd do with it though.

For complaints I don't think the manuscript does enough to explain what a lot of these named demons look like. And I rather dislike the way the Agata are drawn, just big wasps with crystal wings. I thought they were supposed to be beautiful -and- wasp like.

>>97080188
"You get to develop a whole new charmset and then start all over from the beginning with it" is not something I'd say is all that great.

>>97080421
It's actually the least important part for me, because hell doesn't really matter.

>>97080434
2e high essence play is a bit of a joke that a fragment of the community got super obsessed with. I don't mind it, people have a ton of fun with it, but I think they know full well that what they're playing isn't really 2e Exalted.

Devil-Tigers encapsulated this. It was also a fuck ton of work.

>>97080441
Anywhere my Exalted is matters, because that's where my Exalted is.

>>97080452
Sure, but I never plan to set anything there.

>>97080200
Well yeah, they are the superpower of the setting.
It's like playing a Star Wars game set during the OT and then going "why is there so much about the Empire?"

>>97080447
Yeah. Having to design something like that? Not really worth it IMO. Just something to fap over I guess but I think I prefer this version.

>>97080487
Yeah, I will say that making your own splat is very fun though. Which I imagine is a big draw for Exigents. I do think it's a good thing to HAVE. You get to make your own exalted type, why did this take so long. It's just in practice it's very bleh.

The Heresy charms that fuse Yozi together were way cooler and thematic but also very undercooked. This doesn't really work in 3e I think because they are Hell Exalted, instead of Yozi Exalted. Being able to have a charm that's a mismash of Yozi stuff is more... baseline.

>>97080447
It's more like people wrote their never balanced Devil Tiger way in advance and were just looking for an excuse. High essence second edition was a joke

>>97080507
Exigents, for all the flak they get, are a much better execution of the customizable exalt idea. Personally I prefer Infernals as Hell Exalted because it makes it easier for me to rewrite the Solar shard lore

>>97080528
The only thing I don't like about the infernal being Hell Exalted is that I was extremely fond of them being essence based exalts using Yozi charms. It felt super cool to me and flavorful.

Am I sad to see that go? Yeah, but nothing is perfect. I'm also rather sad that we won't have a Hell Nun anymore. I get it, she didn't fit in, but I thought it was neat. Personally I hope all of the "old infernals" come back with more fitting apparel. She should be sexy and blasphemous. At the very least our mummy boy is back so that makes me smile.

The whole thing was a real fun read even if I miss that wonderful 2e "edge". I uh, totally get it though. I also miss the idea of the Infernal Exaltation being inside a demon queen but that part of the lore was basically unsalvageable and I know not everyone has a pregnancy fetish.

>>97080528
>Exigents, for all the flak they get, are a much better execution of the customizable exalt idea
no

Devil-Tigers were the best execution of customization in Exalted we have ever had. Your ideas about what should work and how you think customization should be presented are worth dirt compared to the evidence of our eyes. We can see the glut of Devil-Tiger homebrew. We can see the anemic Exigent response. It doesn't matter how much you argue your opinion when fact is that Devil-Tigers did better.

>>97080625
nah. essence 6 is a bit of a joke. and if you've read custom devil-tigers, like actually read the homebrew, it's basically already Exigents. I like the fluff of devil-tigers but we don't need to pretend that taking an essence 6 charm so you can design essence 2 charms with a theme completely unrelated to the infernals is good game design.

It's not even hard to see or understand. Plus, you know, you'd want to play that devil-tiger at lower essence levels I imagine. Which if you do just makes them even more like Exigents. I can promise you the question "Hey, can my devil-tiger have already died so I can start using the charm set I put hours of work into?" has been asked.

>>97080470
It is slightly different, it is like George Lukas couldn't understand why people didn't care about the imperial minutiae, and mostly saw the empire as that place from where some antagonists came from.

>>97080625
I get that you're fanboying, but DT was actually terrible design. It gave you basically nothing, except carte blanche to piss your ST off

>>97080650
>like actually read the homebrew, it's basically already Exigents.
The fantasy is really different, mostly the patrons.
2e!Infernals wanted to be part of theirs or surpass them, while Exigents or are apathetic towards theirs or outright have vitriol to the concept of the patron itself.

>>97080650
>>97080702
I get that you really hate their design, but it really did work better than anything before or since. There was not as much custom homebrew before, even though every kind of Exalt allows custom charms, and there has not been as much focussed homebrew since with perhaps an exception for Solars, and they got it purely because any full system rewrite tends to look at them first. Regardless of how good or bad the product was as a piece of art, it was executed best by metrics of success and engagement.

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>>97080625
>We can see the glut of Devil-Tiger homebrew.
Haven't seen a single example of that to my recollection. I can remember stuff like the Oramus and Isidoros charm sets for Infernals, but I'm not sure there was anyone biting on Devil-Tigers on the White Wolf forums.

>>97080719
...What metrics? It's been over 10 years since 2e was a thing and times change. Homebrew across EVERYTHING is way lower. Or at least less centralized. Also, piece of art? Anything can be art. 3e is art. That doesn't really mean anything.

If you're only metric is how many custom devil-tigers are out there compared to exigents well. I have no clue how many exigents have been made or how many games have been played using them. You don't either. And not so much homebrew? There is tons and tons of non-devil tiger homebrew for 2e.

The fact that the Broken Wing Crane book didn't offer any help with actually making interesting charms just makes the whole thing worse. I mean, I love the fluff and the soul world stuff is iconic. But I actually really like 2e infernals so I don't really have a drive to defend shit that honestly sucked and that tons of people have already talked about. That's for people that don't actually play the game.

>>97080735
Some were posted in these threads, and I remember one about being about a semi mechanical monster

>>97080735
There is a PDF out there floating around that has a FUCK TON of devil-tiger charms. Like, so so many. I can do some looking around for you if you want to see all the cool shit people made back in the day. It really was neat. Even if it felt like people just charms from other splats and adjusted them slightly, I remember that coming up a lot but still being amazed at all the effort that people put into that stuff.

>>97080745
>If you're only metric is how many custom devil-tigers are out there compared to exigents well. I have no clue how many exigents have been made or how many games have been played using them. You don't either
Around a dozen, most for Essence.

Some were "X exalted of another color".

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>>97080764
>>97080754
[citation needed]

>>97080764
You know I don't really think you're lying but I also have no idea how to verify what you're saying.

I don't get why "devil-tigers just have the coolest fluff and lore" isn't enough for people. They are obviously cooler then Exigents, by the very nature that they're infernals instead of anything else. There wasn't a lot there to work with and what we had to work with was messy af. Also the yozi fusion charms just had so much more flavor.

I just don't get it.

>>97080771
Just go to the fancord, the last time I checked, the completed ones were for Essence.
And some people just play an exalted with a coat of exigent paint; for example, the chosen of grieve being a Dragon-Blooded with some extra custom charms.

>>97080434

The journey is more important.

By the time play gets to that point there should be enough system mastery to make that fun rather than a chore.

>>97080558

I have a pregnancy fetish but that shit was still gross.

>>97080786
I actually don't care for their fluff, but I don't care for the high concept masturbation in general regarding 2e Yozi stuff. I thought Exigents are a better concept in general, but especially their actual execution

>>97080702

Having Yozi charms was great fun.

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>>97080796
>Just go to the fancord
No.

>>97080771
Looking for it right now. I hope I can find it - it was a PDF that had a ton of devil-tiger stuff in it. One of them really stood out to me, it was some dude who's soul world had a water-clock. This might take me a bit, sorry.

>>97080811
Exigents are so good as a homebrew splat, that the first thing people did with it was to give Hearteaters a limit break track and also port them to another edition

>>97080819

Yeah they freaked out at me for using the word "barbarian"; they're not concerned with having actual discussions.

>>97080811
I really like 2e infernals.

>>97080812
As I said, Yozi do nothing for me. Exalted, to me, was always much more exciting when you were talking about the Exalted themselves. Yozi are just a backdrop to me

The reason there's so little 3e homebrew is because no one wants write several hundred dice trick charms.

As for Devil Tiger homebrew there was a shit ton of it so if you didn't see then you never went looking. I probably have like 20 different Devil Tiger/Custom Yozi charm saved on my other computer.

>>97080857
There's a lot of artifacts for 3e, creating a new splat unrelated to anything else, seems to be the problem

>>97080857
I also don't feel like it's really a vindication of Devil Tigers being a particularly good idea since I had literal whole ass sourcebooks of fancharms for Solars alone

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>>97080857
Dice tricks are so often maligned in this thread but frankly I don't get it.

>>97080676
Eh alright, fair. I don't much care for that part of it, since yeah, most exalts don't have any chance to do much there until the civil war kicks in at which point a large chunk of the worldbuilding would be worthless.

>>97080799
So spend years not doing something you hype up so that you can try and learn how to do something others get paid for, all without any help or much if any guidelines?
Listen, I like coming up with stuff too, but I think 3e Infernals giving me a chance to design the Devil-Body and my own pantheon of souls is a decent enough outlet for it.

>>97081014

Nah, yozi charms were fun. The dislike of them by the writers remains unexplained.

>>97080949
They're fiddly, take up space and make it hard to keep track of things.

>>97081043
I can only share my reason for disliking them. Besides the part where they over explain something which was supposed to be a unique mystery for each game, if it was relevant at all, they by design had to put you in a straightjacket as by that point they had already committed to the weird idiot savant interpretation of yozi. This led to the creation of charms for their own sake, often to explain some part of the monster instead of being something filling a distinct need.
In short, they had the unfortunate burden of being both background more and something you had to use.

>>97080857
Listen, crazy house rule idea.
Every time there's a dice trick charm, just replace all of its text with "You gain a bonus x on all uses of this ability which does not count as being added from charms. This Charm may be purchased up to 3 times."
X is a variable that represents the power of the splat.
For Solars, and only Solars, it is 2 Successes
For all other Celestial Exalted, it is 1 Success.
For all Terrestrial Exalted, it is 2 dice. The charm counts as all stupid dice charms cor requirements

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>>97081061
>fiddly
No.
>take up space
They make you more likely to win at the game.
>make it hard to keep track of things
Just use a dice bot.

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>>97081190
>>97080949
picrel is most of it. It's Godbound but it explains pretty clearly why dicetricks are bad - because they're simultaneously too good mechanically and lacking narrative impact. Dicetricks don't actually DO anything in the game world, they only interface with mechanics (and often in ways that are generic and therefore more powerful), when the whole point of the mechanics is that they're there to facilitate roleplay in the world. Beyond that, they also contribute strongly to charm bloat, and are xp taxes both of the 'this is in the way' variety as well as the 'this is too powerful to skip' variety if what you actually want is cool Exalted powers rather than mechanical advantage.

>>97081187
Pretty sure that is insufficient for making high-level artifacts. Even with 3 purchases, that's still only like 30 successea over 5 rolls. With a dice pool of 20 dice, you'd be looking at 11 successes per roll.

>>97081204
I don't really care for OSR mindset; it feels more like the imagined concept of what roleplaying was like when the developers were 12. These charms make fights more exciting rather than a chore of asking your DM to be the adjudicator of every single little thing that happens in the game.

>>97081214
>These charms make fights more exciting
DO THEY?

In what world do your double 9s or reroll 6s make fights more interesting? Seriously? What the hell kind of fights are you running that this kind of thing is fun?

This is the fundamental disagreement with dice tricks, and all that talk of drama and lacking impact are explanations for why. They are not fun. I have actually never heard any person put forward an opinion that was otherwise before you, so I'm curious to hear how and why you would think that way.

>>97081207
I feel like the dice tricks don't add much more, do they?

>>97081207
Then how about if you can purchase it up to five times?

>>97081222
Double Xs add 2+ successes each.
-1 TN adds 2+ successes.
Reroll Xs add between 1+ successes each, and scales to be better with each other dicetrick.
Reroll 1s also dodge botches.

At the very least I do feel that Solars have way too many dice tricks. You want charms that mess with dice rolls but there is a limit. A lot of this I think can be blamed on Solars being the first splat. Mind you, 2e also has this issue with all the ways dice can be messed with. Double this, add this, stunt that, roll this, roll this a second time, ectect. I can't put into words how much time people waste comboing charms on demand when you ignore 2e combo rules.

Either way I don't think it's all that bad for either system. You can't ask for perfection, just something that's good and fun.

>>97081220
Well, I've played Godbound and Exalted 3e. Godbound's combat is, well, kind of boring. Apart from the eternal OSR problem of forcing the GM to be an English Common Law repository of your table's rulings, it replicates the problems with 1e/2e Exalted in that perfect defenses are very hard to work around; the side with the most perfect defenses/Effort to spend on them wins. Exalted 3e's combat is more strategic, revolving around your management of motes, willpower, and initiative. Making a decisive attack resets your initiative, making you very vulnerable; you should ideally have a plan for what happens if someone survives your attack. You generally only get +5m per round of combat, so the dice tricks serve as cheap ways of boosting your attack/damage. However, they require more dice to shine; do you crank up your Excellency as high as it goes to assist with that, or do you hope to get lucky with less? Willpower gates the strongest effects, but also can save your ass from Psyche effects and is useful in a pinch for just a little extra defense.

>>97081237
Just add however many automatic successes you think is ultimately needed to achieve parity. Way better than dealing with tracking every die for manipulations

>>97075598
oh kind ally of nukem,
>>97068553
what wisdom have you for us today?

>>97081267
XJR9K0Y890#MZ8q0qHk7Gm5

Can we talk about something silly for a while since I'm doing this? How about Exalted as an isekai setting or something nigh-farcical like that?

I just gave Solars Essencex5 automatic successes on everything and took all the stupid dice tricks out. I just said you automatically qualified for anything that needed one. No problems here.

>>97081287
I'm basically porting a gothic horror D&D campaign into ExWoD Dark Ages because I got fucking tired of D&D and I enjoy torturing myself with jank.

>>97080421
>I really like the war that broke out when the Yozi were sealed, I really enjoy the Great Contagion infecting the Yozi and their response to it, and I really love all these interesting Hell places that you can visit.
Yeah same, it's pretty neat and a nice way of distinguishing Hell as an environment from Yu-Shan.
>hell star
I wouldn't hate it if it was actually published and not solely a Discord VIP club exclusive.
>complaints
Agreed.

>>97080188
I like Devil-Tigers better as a premise, but in terms of execution Devil-Bodies gave me like 80% of everything I wanted from Devil-Tigers much, much earlier in the game or efficiently. It's the remaining 20% that I yearn for yet, true, but credit where it's due it's a pretty damn good silver lining relative to how defined Devil-Tigers were previously.

>>97081287
>shonen protag goes home
>still has past lives
>is now a schizo

>>97081257
>Exalted 3e's combat is more strategic, revolving around your management of motes, willpower, and initiative. Making a decisive attack resets your initiative, making you very vulnerable; you should ideally have a plan for what happens if someone survives your attack. You generally only get +5m per round of combat, so the dice tricks serve as cheap ways of boosting your attack/damage. However, they require more dice to shine; do you crank up your Excellency as high as it goes to assist with that, or do you hope to get lucky with less? Willpower gates the strongest effects, but also can save your ass from Psyche effects and is useful in a pinch for just a little extra defense.
Anon this is just Excellency. You could replace all of the dicetricks in the game with Excellency alone and you would have the exact same dynamic. This IS the dynamic in 1e/2e when perfect defenses and persistent dice-adders aren't fucking you, except with less dice tricks and more funny combo potential. With that being the case, why do all of the other dicetricks exist? If you answer is 'to extend how far you can choose to invest your motes' then may I ask why we do not just have a bigger Excellency?

>>97080421
>>97081303
>hell star
Shit. Automatically read it as "devil-star" and got triggered.

>>97081337
>>97081303
I don't know what that is, I got back into Exalted just recently. Tell me more?

>>97081322
Generally, a dice trick is more valuable than a dice adder. Spending 3 motes for Excellent Strike/Five Shadow Feint, Finding the Needle's Eye, Auto-Calibrated Tuning, and so on is better than rolling three extra dice with your Excellency. You also tend to be rolling only one or two per attack.
>>97081447
https://theonyxpath.com/ages-of-heaven-preview-3-devil-stars-and-divergent-emperor-vaidurya/

They're weird creatures from space, essentially.

>>97081287
>How about Exalted as an isekai setting or something nigh-farcical like that?
Literally what Exigents are, though you cpukd use the Dream-Born as early Mages and say your dude is a Void Engineer who got stuck in an alternate past.

>>97081474
>Literally what Exigents
Getimians, not Exigents.

>>97081462
>Sidereals companion
...remind me again, how far down the pipeline are the remaining companion books?

Is there even a Solars companion?

>>97081303
Purges of entire districts to quarantine the contagion makes sense.

Yozi war is lame: These guys know how their social club works. They have a king and a lawgiver and a personification of hierarchy. They know that each primordial is an expression of their nature, absolute and unapologetic: that's why they tolerate the Ebon Dragon. His nature is petty and hurtful and oppositional, but he is one of them and that brotherhood is of a nature you can only understand by having it.

>>97081493
Sidereals companion and the second Exigent supplement are in art direction, Abyssals companion is in editing.

The Solars companion was Miracles of the Solar Exalted. It came out a few months after 3e, and then Holden/Morke started sandbagging the whole line.

>>97081493
No. Companion books are the collection-of-Kickstarter-stretch-goals books. For the core, they just added the stretch goals into the book, and that's part of how it got so bloated and took so long. In an ideal world OPP would be doing a real Solar Companion to achieve mechanical parity with the other Solaroids, but I doubt that'll happen.

To anyone new to Exalted that's thinking about holding off on EX3 because of what I just said, don't. I made that mistake with 2e 15 years ago and it was dumb of me.

>>97081527
The better idea is to just make a better version of the system. There is no value in whatever these guys are writing to be fair. It will always be mechanically slop and they are all mentally stuck in whatever feedback loop Games of Divinity put all these losers in

>>97081287
>I Reincarnated into a SchizoMagicTech World & My Dragon-Blooded Waifus Won't Stop Calling Me Anathema??!

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>>97081214
>>97081190
>>97080949
dice tricks aren't themselves bad when they're simple or if they're not too frequent. They are often not simple in 3e and are often fairly frequent. This is a problem.
>average person and even average writer has no idea how to gauge how strong a complex dice trick is
>Can also lead to issues in writing where writers lowball or highball the power of the charm to lead to degeneracy or deprivation
>IRL or with bots, complex dice tricks take more time and mental energy to perform and record
>Even if everyone is on the ball, it is objectively more time added and compounds because of how many things roll.
>Word count wise most people that are not dishonest niggers like you would honestly prefer a new capability rather than doing an old capability better to a dubious extent
The contrarianism around this is so cringe. It's like people see people complain about dice tricks but forget to articulate that the issue is how often they show up and how poorly they're implemented and think they can get a social win.

I don't like how 3e has powerscaled the Contagion. I never liked how 1e and 2e powerscaled it too. lacks aura

>>97081287
exalted Could work as isekai, but how it works would entirely depend on what sort of isekai it is
do you assume it's just yourself as a normal or at most a lower yield magical human?
do you have the ability to exalt?
do you have some meta or rulebreaker shit that would make even the whiniest anti-2e crusader die and calcify into another set of rewritten solar charms?

>>97076612
what happened with Essence ?

>>97081653
I like the idea of just adding success better. super simple, super easy to tune.

>>97081820
Artifact N/As need 200 successes on 6 Craft rolls to create. That's over 30 successes per roll.

Do you really want the charms that let Solars craft them just be "Get 20 extra successes on Craft rolls"?

>>97081854
Yes. That is, in fact, exactly what I'm thinking. In fact, I see the solution as vastly superior to the current state of affairs. Solar charms, more than anyone, should be straightforward and overwhelmingly powerful.

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>>97081653
My confusion is that there's very few pure dice tricks a la Excellent Strike. Going off Abyssals as an example:
>Archery has exactly one: a decisive-only damage booster.
>Brawl has one pure dice trick: Five Knife Fist, which doubles 10s and makes them explode into more dice on a decisive attack.
>Melee has Five Shadow Feint for all attacks, Life-Severing Blade for those attacks that use a full excellency, and Elegant Bloodletting Art for decisive attacks against crashed enemies.
>Thrown has no pure dice tricks, save for the edge case of using Slaughter-Swift Actuity and losing Join Battle with it; otherwise, you immediately start throwing multi-attacks.

All other dice tricks in your attack skills are attached to things that do something unique, such as the unsoakable Entropic Scourge Annihilation, the multi-attack generating Deadly Feathered Maelstrom, or Artful Maiming Onslaught forcing your enemy to either accept the worst crippling injury they can or give you an inordinate amount of free damage. There's a pattern where, outside of the basic dice tricks, you generally only see these bonuses pop up on decisive attacks or once-per-scene tricks so as to reduce the amount of stuff you have to keep track of. Outside of combat charms, you generally see one or two pure dice tricks in their trees and potentially an effect here or there that grants one as enhancement for a specific type of action enabled by the charm.

I can understand the argument that this still increases the amount of calculation one must do and that these mechanics are not unified like Excellencies are, but these rerolls do lead to fairly entertaining moments where a reroll reverses a near-miss into a success/adds a lot more successes than expected, so I'm fine with it overall.

>>97081913
I think they suck because I'd prefer to just have something without the dumb gimmick calculation. It's not really that interesting most of the time and is usually weaker than just getting a bunch of free success. Just gimme that so I know exactly how hard Im gonna fuck you as a baseline. At least for Solar Exalted, so they have this consistent, high level of fuck off ability

>>97081940
I like a little unpredictability.

>>97081959
That's what the rolled dice are for.

>>97081462
>Generally, a dice trick is more valuable than a dice adder.
No, the most common dice tricks are actually less valuable than their motes in bonus dice and are mainly useful for capbreaking. You would think otherwise, but it's survivorship bias. The only dice tricks you actually use like that are the ones that are more efficient. Though, to some extent it's also a focus on Solars, who do have a decent number of tricks that are on par or better than Excellency, but they're uncommon outside that.

>>97081811
They presented a bunch of new Exalted in much more detail than the vague mentions they'd had beforehand. Infernals were one of those and possibly the least well recieved.

>>97081913
>very few pure dice tricks
The way they're getting folded up into other charms is pretty ugly too.

>>97081854
That's how it should have always been

>>97081511
Counterpoint: They just lost a cosmic war and have been metaphysically mutilated and lobotomised, makes sense they'd start lashing out at each other given no more immediate target. Like think about it from Malfeas' perspective. You just lost the war and you're stuck with all the losers who lost it for you.

>>97081659
I liked how Prince Balor was scaled, he has skibidi rizz.

>>97081854
nta and this is kind of a separate topic to dicetricks vs other, but I think any collection of Solar Craft charms that leads to a Solar being able to make Artifact N/As purely on the raw output of them throwing dice at the problem is a failure of their design. These things are actually supposed to be difficult to make even in the First Age and only eight of them are known to have lasted through the ages, you know? Even Artifact 5s were meant to be somewhat rare. If Solars could throw forty successes per roll the whole artifact-centric section of the setting breaks down way too easily.

>>97082178
Their error was making it have a definable threshold instead of N/A being something that is the culmination of something not represented by the rules. In other words too bad lol

>>97082178
That's a problem with N/A being achievable with regular dice results and not potentially Solars having a fuckton of successes.

>>97082197
It's less that it has a definable threshold at all - sorcerous workings have shown us that those can work - and more that the thresholds on N/As, and all artifacts really, weren't set very well. Solar Craft also wasn't very well made. It really did inflate the numbers to a ludicrous extent pretty much exactly because they wanted to hit those targets they'd set.

>>97082215
I'm okay with Solars being able to pump out artifacts easily. It's fun and they're the only items that really matter anyway.

>>97082168

You can justify it, but I feel like an open war between the very yozis themselves is a much less interesting situation than the kind of incidental destruction and chaotic crab bucket shit that earlier material painted a picture of.

It's more fun to me that malfeas doesn't really care about adorjan and isidoros rampaging through his primary jouten but the first circles sure do.

>>97082168
They were just banned to hell and were turning into a new ecosystem. It's as much an environmental cataclysm as it is primordial god things warring with each other. Imagine if you cut a planet in half and teleported it away and all the shit that would happen.

Good thing they're undying beings with infinite natures.

>The Zenith Chambrilian Peselle’s villa impregnated by Kimbery, gave birth to the behemoth Scathra yn Thera, a living cavern of fleshy marble, nacre, and coral.
SPLASH SPLASH SPLASH
GET PREGNANT GET PREGNANT GET PREGNANT

>>97082334
There is also the demon parasite that is buried into multiple layers of Malfeas and who has an entrance at the butthole that's sticking up, with all kinds of things and buildings inside it's butt.

>>97081303
>Yeah same, it's pretty neat and a nice way of distinguishing Hell as an environment from Yu-Shan
How were they similar during previous editions?!

>>97082042
Poorly received because of green sun princes instead of akuma or for the rules ?

>>97082690
Essence Infernals were literally the SJW exalted. All of them were chosen from oppressed backgrounds and all them dedicated themselves to fight oppression, inequality, greed, corruption, etc. Penumbra for example essentially all swore off material desires.

>>97083461
My favorite part was that the Twilight analogs were chosen by people who didn't receive education.

>>97083461
ah lore is whatever, if the rules are minimally good it's ok, can be deadpan humor, erratic beings giving power to whiny victims to fuck up the world

>>97081653
Bro people barely understand how the dice math works, let alone dice tricks.

>>97080735
RIP White Wolf forums. Here is a sample of what remains: https://pastebin.com/4R3xLHHy

>>97080949
They're fine in small doses, but don't mean much if you don't understand probability besides from the vague knowledge they make you better at something. They also aren't as exciting as granting you new capabilities.

>>97081214
It isn't just OSR, rules heavy games are moving on to a more tactical direction than complex rolls.

>>97081204
Here a dumb idea: Someone should've just crunched the numbers to determine the standard value of all dice tricks and then given each Exalt type a single kind of Dice Trick as their dedicated Excellency.

>>97084857
QEanon kind of did it

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>>97082225
>they're the only items that really matter anyway
That's the problem with being able to pump them out easily, you see? They're the peak of items, the most endgame challenge for a Crafter. If it's too easy that's spitting on the crafter's accomplishments, like if NPCs couldn't spend willpower in decision points against social characters or decisive attack against combat characters.

>>97083634
>if the rules are minimally good it's ok
The rules for infernals in the Essence preview were pretty bad too, in that they swung wildly from very strong to very weak. An overreliance across their set on applying penalties to opponents, which was hard countered by a charm everybody wanted to use anyway (Excellent Strike), combined with a lot of underwhelming translations of previous content (e.g. Devil-Body being a lame remaster of the shintai of old) lead to them feeling weak in actual play, and their anima effects varied from obscenely overpowered (+Essence autosuccesses in combat as a persistent costless effect) to really kind of weak (fart out a cloud of bad gas sand that you'd have to be crippled to be hindered by) as well.

Beyond that, even outside talking about strong and weak, the rules just didn't let you play the kind of infernals people who wanted to play infernals came to play, because Essence had done no marketing for their new rendition of infernals and people who went in wanting to try them either had zero idea what they were or were expecting to be able to get an experience similar to 2e Infernals. If you had no experience then they were kind of all over the place and don't make much sense because of all the Yozi-themed charms in a set where the Yozi are completely unexplained. If you wanted the 2e Infernal experience, or especially the idea of infernals you'd osmosed from the collective consciousness, you were shit out of luck, because Essence Infernals couldn't do that at the time. They're a bit better at it now, but not that good.

So did they get rid of Malfeas's second fetch soul that was a loli Unconqured Son that liked to live in the redlight district?

>>97085061
She wasn't a second fetch, and I think she still exists

>>97085061
Ipithymia is still there. She was never Malfeas' second fetich soul, just one of his souls, and that's still the case. She didn't like to live in the red light district, she physically was the district, or rather a street with plenty of brothels and such along it. She's still the Street of Golden Lanterns in 3E, but because 3E is wildly overcompensating for 2E's often admittedly cringe horniness, the street's not longer lined with brothels.

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How would you stat a phoenix like exalted? As an Infernal?

>>97085111
>the street's not longer lined with brothels.
3e sucks

>>97085205
3E Infernals actually seem quite good so far, but sure, 3E's scared of talking about sex to a detrimental degree. 2E didn't always handle sex stuff very tastefully or in a very mature fashion, but 3E seems to have decided to not handle sex at all, which is also not good.

>>97082271
>than the kind of incidental destruction and chaotic crab bucket shit
Fair enough. My reading of the Crab War or whatever it's called was that it was incidental destruction and chaotic crab bucket from the perspective of the Yozis, and open warfare between the 3CDs. Considering the Yozis lack the power to murder each other permanently and in 3e apparently EATING his fucking fetich is not something that noticeably bothers Malfeas, my reading of the situation is that war between demons upon infinite layers of hostile topology is the Yozi equivalent of backyard wrasslin'

>>97082327
And even now, the 3CDs are continuing to fight an echo of that war over what as far as I can tell is the right to be the shiniest thing in the sky kek. A war that Ligier logically seems to have won a long time ago.

>>97083634
>if the rules are minimally good
>if
>IF
>I F
One of the reasons I was so buttblasted about MUH Infernals prior to the drafts, and so fucking relieved after they're out even if they're not quite what I hoped for, is that they did not in fact have even minimally good rules.

>>97085200
Solar with 3e Ifrit Lord shenanigans?

>>97085111
Normalise cringe horniness. Also in my opinion a strict reading of her description doesn't actually CONTRADICT the idea she's a place that sells flesh and lives with the same dignity as a Mexican cartel. It's just that like you said, 3e is so detrimentally

>>97085200
I would wait for more Malfean Charms to come out first, but focusing on Adorjan's stuff in Athletics/Dodge seems key for flight at least. Fortunately Devil-Body flight enhances some flight-enabling Charms, Extreme Adaptation is pretty flexible for adding phoenix-like traits, you can grab Perilous Domain for fiery aura, Displacing Body to fluff superior flight, and maybe Enhanced Attack if you want to shoot fire like the phoenixes in Warcraft

>>97084930
>That's the problem with being able to pump them out easily, you see?
I don't see a problem. Shouldn't have made it something you can just roll.

>>97085695
*3e is so detrimentally shy of horniness that they sneak in affirmations of that stuff right at the end of her description instead of being upfront about it.

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>>97083461
That is also 3e Infernals, who are chosen with the same criteria as their Essence counterparts.
>>97083471
Also 3e Horizons.

>>97085712
I think it's fair to say at the very least they've tried to reword and deemphasise how cringe some of the descriptions in Essence were, at least.

>>97085698
>I don't see a problem. Shouldn't have made it something you can just roll.
Making it something you can roll is a good idea in the same way that statting third circle demons is a good idea. It's Exalted, you're supposed to be able to challenge the top end and craft that / fight that, but it's not supposed to be easy. You're definitely not supposed to just math out how many dice you need to throw at it until it falls over without any pushback.

>>97085712
Weird, isn't demiurge the god who keeps people from finding true knowledge? Seems contradictory to the caste's reason d'etre.

>>97085737
3e seems to think being the demiurge is based, a bunch of Solar Charms also reference fulfilling the role of a demiurge.

>>97085673
and just mediocre now then ? i can st with that, part of the course with WW

>>97085737
>>97085764
The demiurge is a thing outside wod/exalted lore, as a thing of the world that shapes the way the world is sorta thing. It's a gnostic thing iirc.

>>97085764
It kind of comes as a stealth insult.

>>97085770
I am fully aware.

>In Gnosticism, theDemiurgeisthe creator of the material universe, a being often portrayed as inferior to the true, transcendent God. He is seen as ignorant and flawed, responsible for creating a world that is flawed and trapped in illusion. Gnostics identified the Demiurge with the God of the Old Testament, sometimes giving him names like Yaldabaoth or Samael, and considered the material world a prison that the divine spark within humans must escape to find true knowledge (gnosis).

>Characteristics of the Demiurge in Gnosticism

>Creator of the material world:The Demiurge is a "craftsman" or "artisan" who shapes the physical world, but not from nothing. He is not the supreme God, but a subordinate being who acts under the influence of higher powers, like the wisdom figure Sophia.A flawed and inferior being:The Demiurge is seen as imperfect, ignorant, and sometimes malicious. He is unaware of the true, higher spiritual world that exists beyond his creation.

>>97085765
>and just mediocre now then?
They're the most entertaining Charms I've read in 3e so far. By 3e standards, specifically. Kind of have an Alchemical-like structure except you don't have to pick and choose between submodules, you just get all the upgrade Charms. Make of that what you will.

>>97085770
I know what the Demiurge is yes, I just agree with >>97085776 that it comes across as a stealth insult.

>>97085719
Sure, but the 3e depiction is mostly in line with what appeared in Essence, charms and all.
>>97085737
>>97085764
The demiurge was originally a Platonic concept describing the shaper of the material universe; the Gnostics adapted the term to represent that which was keeping them trapped in the world of base matter. Demiurge also just means "artisan" in the original Greek.

>>97085824
I am also aware of this.

>It was originally a common noun meaning "craftsman" or "artisan", but gradually came to mean "producer", and eventually "creator."

>>97085824
>Sure, but the 3e depiction is mostly in line with what appeared in Essence, charms and all.
I've said it before but after all this time, I've come to the conclusion my issue with 3e is as much about execution as concept. After literal goddamn years of underdelivery yes, I am frankly just tired. But also I see the fact they're at least trying to downplay the shit that annoyed me instead of double downing on it (especially with 3e Infernals being defined more through vengeance than muh revolution) that I'll take my victories where I can.

>The demiurge was originally a-
That doesn't change my opinion about it being a stealth insult.

>>97085885
It reminds me of the time White Wolf used a Jewish term for reincarnation, for the act of destroying an Ascension's mage's avatar so they would not reincarnate.

You know, I actually get it. Still, ruler of a corrupt world fits infernals perfectly. It's the same with calling them Devils. Now all we need is a Samael and a Mourning Star. I'd say morning but Sol already has that covered...

>>97086113
The morning star is Venus, the light bringer was always associated with it.

>Samael.
Which one? Classical, apocryphal or modern?

>>97086126
I'm not really sure honestly. I know in the Lucifer comics and that really weird cop shop it was another name for Satan. A quick google says it's an older jewish name for Satan/a Satan parable?

Either way it sounds cool but the name doesn't fit exalted perfectly. I'd also like some kind of demon that plays with the theme of satan in that Divine Paradise book or whatever. He has like three heads that are frozen and one is Brutus, the guy who stabbed Caeser. The author was really big on Caeser apparently.

Actually, a Mithra would be cool too. But that's pretty much also Sol. A Jesus would be neat but that's basically what some player characters are going to be playing ANYWAYS when they're good guys. I wonder if there are any other cool christian themes to work with in Exalted that don't spoil the setting.

>>97086154
>Actually, a Mithra would be cool too. But that's pretty much also Sol.
Conky is more Surya than Mitra, Aurora can fulfill the rile of Mitra better.

>>97086163
I never knew it was spelled that way. I thought Mithra was basically proto that roman sun god which is basically proto john which is basically proto jesus. My mind is hazy though.

>>97086170
Depends on the version, Mithra can be spelled both ways.

>Together with theVediccommon nounmitra, theAvestancommon nounmiθraderives fromProto-Indo-Iranian*mitrám(Mitra), from the root*mi-"to bind", with the "tool suffix"-tra-"causing to". Thus, etymologicallymitra/miθrameans "that which causes binding", preserved in the Avestan word for "Covenant, Contract, Oath".

If anyone brings any part of christianity less esoteric than gnosticism into Exalted I'll start biting. Save that shit for WoD where it belongs.

>>97086113
I would have absolutely no issue with the word if it hadn't popped up in the SOLAR charmset first. Also technically we already have two Morningstars. The first is Prince Laashe from Ink Monkeys, the Ishvara who usurped a portion of the Unconquered Sun's power in a grandiose betrayal. The second is Feng Huang Morningstar, who has effectively replaced Gorol as the first and most memorable Solar to collude with the Yozis, but his last name was changed in the Infernal drafts even though he was first mentioned in Arms of the Chosen.

>>97086233
You're safe. Lilith is just a sad owl woman and either victim of First Age/Wyld shenanigans or wartime dementia depending on which edition you're reading, Exalted doesn't have the interest in Lunars to go into the greater/lesser shit or apocalyptic kabbalah malarky.

>>97085712
>That is also 3e Infernals, who are chosen with the same criteria as their Essence counterparts.
Yes and no. 3e Infernals still have some of that cringe SJW ways of being chosen and motivations but they've also expanded the criteria so non SJWs and even villains can be chosen. Before all of them were like but now only some are like that.

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I actually did end up finding a copy of Essence's first draft through 4plebs and its descriptions of Infernals. As you can see what we finally ended up getting is far superior though could definitely use some improvement to remove some of the nonsense.

>>97086583
had to read side by side with my pdf to get the differences, yikes for the draft

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>>97086583
>>97086593
Literally unchanged by the way, it's only been spread across more pages (Essence core pg76-79). Picrel.

>>97086708
Okay I actually take it back they swapped some words in the first paragraph that I can see. The change is effectively nothing, not actually nothing.

>>97086717
>The change is effectively nothing, not actually nothing.

>Peleps Deled intensifies

>>97086727
Peleps Deled did nothing wrong.

>>97086717
>The change is effectively nothing, not actually nothing.
From draft to final of Essence? Yeah changes are effectively minimal. From Essence to Infernals? Big changes.

>>97086739
>From draft to final of Essence? Yeah changes are effectively minimal. From Essence to Infernals? Big changes.
Oh, is that what you were talking about? Fair enough, yeah. I'd be disappointed if not. Essence was there to draft check the controversial changes they were planning for late 3e with the changing devs. If they'd failed to respond to the draft's failures and successes I'd think much less of them.

File: Evolution of 3e Infernals.png (1.95 MB, 2840x1765)

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I was bored and made this

>>97086887
I have to say, I don't like how it seems like Penumbrals have to have been part of the elite of the culture they come from; it seems too limiting to character concepts. Overall, though, you could see the Infernal castes as parodies or ironic versions of the corresponding Solar castes, and overall it might be ok for them to be narrower in concept.
Also, with the Horizon caste and being chosen from people who were denied education, it's not like all Twilights had to be well-educated either.

>>97085735
Welcome to Solars

>>97087126
Doibg everything worth doing easily is not what Solars are or are supposed to be about. It'd be lame as fuck if a Solar in a monent of brilliant insight exceptional even for him, rolling unusually well, couldn't achieve anything more than he could with an average roll. Leaving room for such exceptional feats pretty obviously requires there to be things even Solars can't do easily or reliably.

>>97087141
It really sounds like you want swingy, unreliable math and fuck off with that. Not for Solars.

>>97087141
This kind of thinking is why Craft always gets kicked in the dick. Either push NA out further or just accept that Solars can probably just slam it out. Quit getting your weird feels in my mechanics.

>>97087126
To be clear I'm saying that yes, N/A should be craftable and rolls should be involved, and that 3rd circle demons should be beatable and that rolls should be involved, BUT that these tasks should be roughly comparable in difficulty for a Solar equally specialised in the fields of combat and crafting. It's just about the hardest possible task that could be pursued by a specialist in either field, but if one field caps out at coughing baby and the other field caps out at hydrogen bomb then the fields are not equal, and if a handful of coughing babies are supposed to empower somebody to the point where they can beat up the hydrogen bomb then you have fucked up.

>>97087268
Then make N/A itself a bigger challenge? That's what we've been saying to do, just don't mess with Solars

>>97086972
>Also, with the Horizon caste and being chosen from people who were denied education, it's not like all Twilights had to be well-educated either.
While true you know very well what themes they were trying to initially trying to invoke with Infernals

>>97087277
>>97086972
Yeah, it's all a matter of intent. The backlash against the Essence version was not so much because of how it was written but because it was blatant why it was written that way.
It's like the difference between a guy who wants to make a blind samurai who has honed his other senses to superhuman levels to compensate and a guy who brings to the table an Alchemical in a wheelchair - it's clear that one just wants to play an anime trope while the other is trying to make some kind of political statement.

>>97087276
Solars maybe shouldn't be rolling 60+ successes on Craft and only 15-20 on Melee, as well. You see how it comes back to dicetrick issues?

>>97087164
Another reason is that Solars can destroy the setting, by playing the part of a super Leonardo and kick starting the Renaissance.

>>97087348
Nah, I think that's appropriate because I don't share your concerns at all.

>>97087152
No. I meant what I said. Don't project any other meaning into my words.

>>97087352
I love this, though. It's great

>>97087354
>Nah, I think that's appropriate because I don't share your concerns at all.
I think it's not appropriate because it immediately locks out anything which, say, lets you use Craft for combat. I'd say social influence, but Linguistics is kind of silly with it's tricks and 1wp defeats all highrollers there - the perfect defense grind meta is alive and well in 3e social. Those Lore-blast or Occult-blast charms don't work with Craft because while those trees the developers have agreed to avoid pumping full of dicetricks that push successes too far, certain other trees haven't received that handshake, which is silly.

>>97087381
I'm on the opposite end. I say get rid of all dicetricks and just pump raw extra successes into all abilities instead. Hell, just make it a default function of being Exalted and cut out all the capbreaking dice shenanigans.

>>97087391
That's not the opposite end at all, we've been agreeing on that. We're both saying be rid of random dicetrick charms and generalise them instead. You're saying autosuccesses and I was saying to just expand the Excellency/remove the dicecap earlier but it's basically the same.

My main thrust is that it's a problem that all of the Abilities have different dicetricks leading to Solars specialised in different things being able to hit wildly different targets. When the Solar Melee who just finished the main part of his build can hit 20 sux on his very best day, while the Craft guy at the same stage goes into the hundreds, that's bad for the game for a variety of reasons - putting those ability swap charms in a weird place was one example, while another was the challenges characters facing being so wildly divergent in difficulty (the N/A vs 3rd circle comparison).

>>97087400
I'd probably just adjust the difficulties. In my ideal world, Solar melee is tossing 20+ successes on the regular too.

>>97086233
>>97086362
Leviathan is also in the game, he is a whale that does nothing but seethe against the Realm.

>>97076382
I am sad that I am too stupid to figure this out.

is there homebrew exalts for QE ?
for the ones missing

>>97088287
Only the Liminals, but it is easy to port the others thanks for rules based system, you just need to figure out the unique way.

>>97087316
Wrong choice with the Alchemical to make it seem "political". The wheelchair could be a Charm! The wheels could swap between on-road and wall-climbing modes, and sprout blades. And that's without getting into the ninja and ninja-adjacent tropes.

>>97087316
Wow, you picked the worst possible example for an exalt type that would be ridiculious in a wheelchair. Those guys already have canon wheel attachments

>>97088793
>>97088866
The wheelchair is a "mundane" one, it wasn't part of them.
And you described the reason for why it doesn't work.

>>97088893
Why would you assume that any important item an exalt has in mundane?

This is a problem that can be solved by, instead of getting butthurt about imagined politics, looking your player in the eyes and saying "sure, but to fit the Alchemial vibe the wheelchair has to be made of magical materials and able to attach to your body"

>>97088934
Because the way it was drawn? Like most battle or fantasy wheelchairs, it looks like it was designed by somebody who never had to deal with being bound by one.
The body wasn't in any shape firmly in the chair.

>>97088934
Go full Bedman and say it transforms into a combat exoskeleton.

>>97088934
>>97088793
Nigga, he made a valid point, you dont need to go to the defense of a fictional individual. It's stupid in D&D and it's stupid here.

>>97089054
It's about ten times less stupid in exalted than in D&D and if you can't see that, maybe you're also stupid.

>>97089117
Nah, man, I'm not about to get into a weird shitflinging contest over common sense. Exalted even has a history saying that the Exalted are chosen from the healthy and hale because they are stuff of champions. That's not to say the disabled aren't also valid people, but I wouldn't let someone play a wheelchair Exalt because that's merely a temporary condition for the Chosen.

>>97089117
The contrary can be argued, since there are more options in Exalted such as artifacts or body restoring magics.

>>97089158
Could you boost a Read Intentions roll with hearing-enhancing Charms like Keen Hearing and Touch Technique and stunting it as listening to the target's breathing and heartbeat to see if they're lying Daredevil-style?

>>97089246
If you made it sound cool, sure

>>97089158
>Quoting dumb things from 2e that were walked back even before 2e existed
>Ignoring the existence of characters that are, in fact, maimed or misshapen

Krinstet Orr was missing a hand, Master Vikkart of Spith had his ear-drums pierced as a child to fight sirens (Second Breath did not restore them).

Hephaestus is in the source myth, Autochthon is his expy, and, again, Alchecmicals can just replace their bodies with machine parts. An Alchemical could appear to be in a wheelhair and have legs that snap on in extremis so that they can double-team you with the wheelchair as it sprouts bladed wheels and runs you down. We go over the top in this game.

>>97089306
Yeah, your wheelchair sounds gay and lame, sorry. I'm not letting one show up to my table in a wheelchair and you're really just making the point for why they wouldn't be wheelchair bound at all.

Damn you all seem really mad about other people having the wrong sort of fun

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>>97089538

>>97089538
>Wheelchair bound.
>Having fun being wheelchair bound.
Some dude was shut down when he tried to defend Alchemicals wheelchair bound over something awful.

>>97089306
>Hephaestus is in the source myth, Autochthon is his expy, and, again, Alchecmicals can just replace their bodies with machine parts. An Alchemical could appear to be in a wheelhair and have legs that snap on in extremis so that they can double-team you with the wheelchair as it sprouts bladed wheels and runs you down. We go over the top in this game.
You should tell the 3e devs instead.

>>97089633
Why would someone make a character they wouldn't have fun playing?

>>97089719
It was the virtue signaling devs who made it, and the other anon had to invent a whole backstory to justify it.

Ironically enough, wheelchair bounds and their relatives are the least likely to have "fun" with wheelchair representation, it reminds them of too much of the emotional baggage that comes with the chair.

T. Had to quit my job to take care of my mother who lost the use of her legs, thanks for intestinal cancer.

>>97089757
It is this interesting situation where in a lot of fantasy worlds with magic a lot of the disabilities would be solved when you're at the power level you're talking about. If not properly solved the replacement is equal to or better than the disability. The blind swordsman has such supernaturally good hearing that he's not actually blind, he's just blind for the aesthetic. However certain disabilities you'd just fully replace the aesthetic, a wheelchair is just a worse alternative than a prosthetic leg or something that exists in real life because we don't have magic limbs or flying magic or some shit. Think Luke's robotic hand in Star Wars, he gets his hand cut off and immediately gets a normal looking robot hand that doesn't come into the story at all. He just wanted the cool scene of him losing his hand in a duel without any of the actual consequences of not having a hand. Maybe if the wheelchair was a whole ass warstrider or some shit but then that's got practical concerns of what happens when you gotta go inside.

People would like representation but certain worlds it just doesn't make sense to have that sort of thing unless you're poor and powerless, which most Exalts certainly are not.

The Sidereals are neat.

>>97075598
Post more Manosque Cyan please.

Is there a full bibliography of what books have been released for 3e?

>>97089633
>>Some dude was shut down when he tried to defend Alchemicals wheelchair bound over something awful.
Really? How so? Do you have a link to that?

>>97090613
There is the White Wolf wiki and a copyright page.

>>97090617
https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3749911&pagenumber=192
>The counter-argument for that would be wheelchair -> mechanical tech -> aesthetically in-theme for Alchemicals.

>"Disability representation is ill-conceived because the magic of the setting would logically allow for perfect repair of disabilities" is a remarkably unpopular opinion among disability representation advocates in the fandom.

The second person
>This counter-argument doesn't really seem to work since it assumes that Autochthonian society (famously a bad parody of real life Marxist-Leninist societies where everybody must work if they can for the good of the motherland and all that) has the same attitude towards disability as real world advocates for the position that disabilities do not ever need to be relieved and that seeking out medical relief for them is bad in and of itself because they believe it promotes the idea that all disabilities should be "corrected". I have disagreements with this view as someone with a particularly major disability (borderline personality disorder) where I would really LOVE a more efficacious treatment for it, so I really don't see the benefit of only accepting that view of things as the default

>>97090613
wikipedia

Metropolis exist because people want to play a giant living city, I don't think it's meant to be punishment and there are plenty of other types of Exalted to play in 2e. I have no idea what alchemical players when they don't want to be a city in high essence but still.

There seems to be some "2e isn't universal enough" with its splats and I don't know how I feel about that. It's the same with 3e not having any flavor, it just doesn't make sense. How do you play a city-person if you're not a high essence alchemical?

Although saying all this I swear I read some devs saying that you're not MEANT to play high essence alchemicals when they're living cities which is just absurd but I could be making that up.

>>97090888
>How do you play a city-person if you're not a high essence alchemical?
Well, in 2e you would build a manse with Sentience and use Soul Seal to move yourself into it, or Pattern Spider Touch yourself into a city, or eat a city god and transform into a replica of their city (and then use your knacks to further refine it). You could also be an unfleshed raksha controlling a freehold. That's only the surface level stuff I could come up with off the top of my head, of course.

>>97090953
>eat a city god and transform into a replica of their city (and then use your knacks to further refine it)
And yes I am aware that some Storytellers may not consider cities to be natural geographic features. Say fuck'm or make an expansion on the knack.

>>97090888
Is it really a punishment? You could just build a drone replica of your original body

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>>97090888
>Metropolis exist because people want to play a giant living city
I don't think that's why they exist. They're a very cool setting element but I think the list of people who want to play a stationary being is very small.

>>97075598
Does anyone have any PDFs of the 1e fiction books and/or the 3e Companion PDFs please? I can't really find any of them in the links besides the Essence Companion.

>>97091073
>I don't think that's why they exist. They're a very cool setting element but I think the list of people who want to play a stationary being is very small.
I'd absolutely play a stationary being so long as they had decent telepresence. I'm already a Spy Who Walks in Darkness spammer and I've made a couple builds for games where I've pretty directly angled towards becoming something like a lich (in terms of 'roaming body that does stuff while the vital organ phylactery stays safe', not as in 'evil undead').

>>97075598
Monthly Update
>Predevelopment
Alchemical Companion
Essence Extended
Infernal Companion (currently crowdfunding)
>First Draft
Essence Player’s Guide novellas
Essence Storyteller’s Guide
Exalted Essay Collection lol last seen here
>Redlines
Sidereals Jumpstart
>Post-Approval Development
Infernals last seen here
>Editing
Riders from the Sunless Lands: The Abyssals Companion
>Art Notes Prep
Essence Player’s Guide
Sidereals Companion
>Art Direction
Essence Player’s Guide
Champions of the Divine Flame
Infernals (Crowdfunding)
>Layout
Sidereals Storyteller Screen
Abyssals Storyteller Screen
Alchemicals: Servants of the Machine God
>Press
they've started dividing press into these subsections even though many of the "other projects" are crowdfunded stretchgoals
> - Crowdfunded projects:
Exigents: Out of the Ashes: File prep
Sidereals: Charting Fate’s Course: Quoting
Abyssals: Sworn to the Grave: PDF and PoD versions on sale
> - Other projects
Exigents Storyteller Screen: At Studio2
so the backerkit compaign is trucking along, will finish about a week before christmas. donate if you give a shit
https://www.backerkit.com/c/projects/onyx-path/deluxe-exalted-infernals
this kind fellow
>>97068553
>>97081287
has donated the infernals manuscript available so far. this other kind fellow tells you how to see it
>>97068761
alchemicals is farthest along & still tweaking it's art. if we're lucky we may see the backer pdf early next year
onyx path believes they've found the right time and printer to try hacking at their shipping backlog, and the exigents books are being used as the proverbial canary in the mineshaft, currently planned to start shipping january

>>97091073
My other thoughts are that I'm not sure most people fixate on high Essence play either; apart from not being supported for players, it takes too long for most campaigns, and most campaigns that do run that long will probably have wrapped up just about everything to do that has any connection to the player characters.

>>97091748
>I'm not sure most people fixate on high Essence play either
Many people who're interested in or new to Exalted do fixate on it because high Essence play is what a lot of them are sold on that draws them to look further into the game. They get sold on something hype from Ink Monkeys like the faerie bigger than the world being pushed over with a finger and told 'you could be the guy who does that' and then they find out that doing that is something that only ever happens in the highest reaches of 2e, and that the developers flinched away from that and redacted everything on the upper end for 3e. Most leave disappointed.

>>97091764
>They get sold on something hype from Ink Monkeys like the faerie bigger than the world being pushed over with a finger and told 'you could be the guy who does that'
I got into Exalted because I thought 2e core's comics were fun while I was skimming through it at my FLGS. A decade and change later, I really empathize with Holden's post about being confused that Exalted became regarded as a quasi-xianxia setting; if one reads the actual books instead of forums posts, you'd get a totally different impression of what the setting is.

>>97091073
It is confusing because if no one wanted to play a living city then wtf is the point of them. It might be a small pool but some people had to say "Playing as a city is cool" because why else would they make it. Hm.

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>>97091797
>if one reads the actual books instead of forums posts, you'd get a totally different impression of what the setting is.
Holden was a big part of the problem. He has no right to act confused. Someone who only read Core and Ink Monkeys - the new content that was being put out - could very readily believe even some of the more exaggerated forum posting about Exalted. It's not helped by a lot of creative writing in the fandom surrounding Exalted being based on this idea of Exalted rather than anything closer to what the books detail.

>>97091812
>It is confusing because if no one wanted to play a living city then wtf is the point of them.
There can be cool stuff in the game without it being playable, or intended to be played. The Unconquered Sun isn't meant to be played, but you have his stat block and you can if you want to - that's more than you have for metropoli. Playing one is about on par with playing Akuma, or Third Circle Demons, for the agency loss being considered and just how much is written of them.

I'm not saying you can't or that the developers should lock you out of it, or even that it's bad to play that way - I'm one of the people who would like to play a stationary character - but I am saying that I can understand why the developers wouldn't want to try aiming at providing the option to players.

>>97091827
>Holden was a big part of the problem.
Oh certainly, but I can give him credit for at least understanding that he fucked up. It's just alienating to see people describing Exalted as something like I Shall Seal the Heavens when its closer to Thunderbolt Fantasy or the recent Where Winds Meet in terms of power. I flipped through those comics again and there's nothing so over-the-top as how guys who started with the series through forums posting and the 1d4chan article; its all things like Panther fighting some wood elementals, Dace fighting an Abyssal, etc.

>>97091827
Not really. Playing a city is fine as long as there are good country rules. Charms were also implied to exist that would let the higher Essence Alchemicals send out a drone version of their lower stage Alchemical form.

>>97090751
I can't remember if they changed how Alchemicals work, but it's really dumb for them insofar that they are manufactured, not born and can modify their bodies with Charms. Alchemicals are the dumbest possible wheelchair Exalted. A Dragon-Blooded one is believable, a Solar one I can understand, but an Alchemical should either not be in a wheelchair, or have non-working legs because they turned them into wheels or something. Also, very cool to see someone with bpd steal disability valor.

>>97075598

>thread is about to hit bump limit
>nobody's posted Manosque Cyan
Life is suffering. Maybe the Neverborn were right.

>>97091901
>Playing a city is fine as long as there are good country rules.
Have those rules ever existed? They don't in 3e, and I can't remember appreciating Mandate of Heaven.

>>97091922
Good, the Infernals have yet again been shut out of a thread.

>>97091922
>Maybe the Neverborn were right.
If you kill a Devil-Tiger, do they become a Neverborn?

I don't care if its actually fun playing as having an Alchemical be able to turn into is a cool concept and its good to have the option.

>>97092382
>I don't care if its actually fun playing as a city having an Alchemical be able to turn into a city is a cool concept and its good to have the option.
Fixed. Jesus Christ did I have a stroke while writing that so i forgot to include city

>>97092373
>If you kill a Devil-Tiger, do they become a Neverborn?
I would drop their world-body as a new part of the Underworld and make their subsouls spectres/hekatonkhire, but I'd probably send their hun and po on to become ghosts/reincarnate/disperse as normal unless they'd consigned themselves to another fate. I would have their hun drop into the new underworld section made of their inner soul and populated by the spectres of their subsouls though, and I doubt it lasts long amid all of that.

>>97092461
Agreed

>>97092373
Nah, their exaltation would stop them from Neverborning. Same with what happens when a Yozi dies when an infernal is alive with their charms. It's one of their defense mechanisms.

If you somehow managed to destroy the Devil-Tigers Exaltation and every infernal with those devil-tiger charms then yeah, but good luck destroying an Exaltation. One of the bonuses of devil-tigers is the soul world and it makes no sense for them to die over and over just because the Devil-Tiger dies.

>>97092519
>Same with what happens when a Yozi dies when an infernal is alive with their charms.
?

>>97092523
In 2e Yozi can't die so long as an infernal has their charms. You need to get rid of every infernal that has access to their charms first. I'm pretty damn sure it's in the base 2e infernals book. It's one of the many many things that the Ebon Dragon set up.

>>97092550
Srory, I meant 3e

>>97091827
newfag, the UnqS has a stat block??? no vtm bs of *Does what the ST says* ?

>>97092600
He has an actual statblock in Glories of the Most High - The Unconquered Sun (2e). Basically he has max stats in everything and all of his attacks and defenses are perfect unless you exploit his flaw of invulnerability.

I just checked for 2e because I thought I had some details wrong. Turns out, when the fetich soul dies and an infernal has the Yozi charms, the new Yozi that pops up isn't diminished. It still "dies" and becomes "something else"

If you kill the Yozi itself, well, it doesn't say. I imagine it's like killing the fetich soul where, where it can rebuild itself but I honestly have no idea. It's mentioned in RoTSE in the Ebon Dragon stat block. I'm also only assuming this applies to all the Yozi; the Ebon Dragon might just have put that rule in for himself for all I know.

>>97092627
>Basically he has max stats in everything
That's not true, he doesn't have max stats, most of his stats are better.

That is, if you take 10s as 'max', because it's the max for PCs, he's often better. If your idea of max is an actual maximum possible number, then that's both right and wrong - wrong because he actually has numbers on his stats, and numbers in Storyteller do theoretically go up to infinity - and also right because his panoply makes him automatically succeed at everything forever, do infinite damage, and perfectly defend against anything. When they work, his stats really are 'max', in that they are the maximum mathematically possible, infinity.

So the Five-Metal Shrike is Artifact N/A and thus can do whatever the fuck it likes, but would you allow any of it's powers other than Flight of the Shooting Stars and Luna's Magnaminity as a five dot artifact? Or would they also be in the N/A range, just... lower. Like how the Five-Metal Shrike is lower than the Eye of Autochthon, and the River Province flood controls are lower still.

>>97089907
>However certain disabilities you'd just fully replace the aesthetic, a wheelchair is just a worse alternative than a prosthetic leg or something that exists in real life because we don't have magic limbs or flying magic or some shit.
Realistically this defaults to the assumption that all wheelchair-bound people are missing legs when there's a shitload of other reasons. Degenerative muscle tissue, neurological problems, chronic pain, etc. Stuff that can't really be solved by just slapping on robolegs because you'd need first need to chop those legs the fuck off or even your entire lower body, which ain't something a shitload of people would be willing to do even if they'd know there was a solution on the other side of amputation.

>>97092903
Most of the time, battle wheelchair bounds are draw with both legs healthy, with no signs of even atrophy.

>>97092943
Artist problem, not a character concept one.

>>97092949
There's also the fact that they are never properly bound, or address the mobility of the arms.

>>97075598
What are your hopes for future stretch goals, and what do you think of the ones we already have?

>Progeny-Text Plagiarism
This is a very cute Charm, but can someone explain the utility of making a book give birth in an actual game of Exalted?

>>97093295
That they don't screw things up to the extent of Miracles of the Solar Exalted levels, something the drafts have greatly helped my believe they won't. Otherwise I am indifferent to future stretch goals since I don't factor them into my enjoyment of the product.

I do think the current ones are more modest and realistic than the magical ark of empty promises present in the earlier kickstarters, though. Although that could well be reverse nostalgia goggles talking.

Welp, Linguistics capstone puts solars to shame

>Slumbering Prophet Revelation
>The Infernal God-King's Shrike equivalent is Sacheverrell-coded, and involves going the fuck to sleep for 10-Essence days to make a fucking nightmare become reality
>At E10 this theoretically happens as soon as the goddamn Infernal goes to sleep
Holy fucking based.

>>97093465
Whose Linguistics capstone DOESN'T, to be fair?