I think not only 20lvl is boring but past 5lvl. 3rd level spells are PEAK of game design and we don't need more.
>>97081281>What is E6?
>>97081281You clearly can if you play games with good players and not with drooling tards in constant need of spoonfeeding. There should be a common understanding of the rules shared by the table as whole to minimize (or simply speeding up) constant rule checking and arbitrations moments. That or playing other games where the mechanics aren't needles gameification of various subroutines and actions so playing at higher levels of power doesn't became necessarily sluggish.
You don't need levels at all.
>>97081281>Actions>Classes>Character Level>Feat>DMWe really need a thread for game mechanic red flags.
>>97081281To each their own, you goof. Playing the game at 20th level is really fun for some people, while others prefer the limitations of playing lower-level characters.The real matter is that if you play the game with advancing levels, the feel of the game will gradually shift. Growing stronger feels good, but it literally has huge effects on what you can do in the game that start to add up. If you want to account for all of that as a GM, that's fine, and it's all you.
Having a goal to strive for makes things more fun even if it isn't realistic to reach them.
>>97081309A trash system that doesn't let my Dread Necromancer get Animate Dead as a 3rd level spell without Arcane Disciple, that's what! Yes, it's personal!
In my experience some GMs - and players too - just can't handle the pressure of high levels (mostly math and attention/concentration-wise), sorta like how normies who are "so into board games" are often unable to play an entire game of Twilight Imperium to completion. Some people are just lucky enough to have predisposition and experience to GM more complex games and some don't. Same with high-concept story games like WoD splats: I was lucky to have a great GM for Mage, and seeing it ran that masterfully was pretty much the best tRPG experience I had in my life. But I won't force a person who doesn't have a fucking PhD and only ever played 5e to run Mage or Ars Magica or whatever else, neither myself nor they would enjoy it in the slightest.
>>97081455>>97081309>>97081281no i will not buy pbta or your solo journaling game
>>97081684PBTA is filled with redflags, sorry that all the systems you know suck lol
>>97081281>Numbers are hardTrannies should stay out
>>97081903>jacob>trannyHe is a literal chud married and with children lmao
>>97081281Do we really need more d&d slopcontent on youtube?
>>97081684Anon if you don't know what E6 is you could have just asked. It has nothing to do with either of those things; it's just DND capping out at level 6.
>>97082099Thought it was an ugly woman from OPs thumbnail, looks exactly like an obnoxious chick I used to work with.
>>97081281You could try not playing DnD. Even something that is pretty similar to it like pathfinder does not have this issue.
>>97081455What makes actions and classes an inherent red flag?Cite evidence from games functionally distinct from D&D and elaborate on why.
>>97081281Levels are arbitrary to some extent.You could take D&D and rewrite it so that the first 5 levels are spread over 10 having the "peak" spells the capstone. Then you'd adjust experience gain to level up faster or slower.What that says more is about what kind of gaming experience you want really.
>>97081281>ESLnigger has retarded opinions about a game he doesn't playkys
>>97081281The big issue is that WotC decided to rebalance D&D around big spongy creatures and coded it into the rules with stuff like challenge rating and how attack rolls scale against AC. Then, the solution for beating spongy creatures is to... Give the players dozens of small abilities that they can stack to beat the sponginess. In 5th edition (and 4th, actually), they went further and made the game around bursting X times per Y encounter period. This is not intuitive to their player base and has never been so.
>>97081281This image annoys me because, other than casting smite at 4th level specifically, this entire sequence can be done by a party from 5th level.
play a better edition if you must play D&D, for starters, or play a better game
>>97082814But they don't need to do it because challenge rating appropriate enemies do not have that much health. So, the avergate 5e player simply doesn'f know they are supposed to do all that.
>>97081281Take your garbage back to your containment thread.
>>97081455>Actions>doing things in ttrpgs is a red flag
>>97082979Maybe he ment codified/classified actions in skirmish? I don't know how things are in 5e because the last iteration of d&d that i ran is 3.5e but as far as 3e that may be a legit concern. In my opinion having too much granularity in typology of actions isn't good, especially if there's thematic overlap (eg: free action and swift action).
>>97081281Have you tried playing something other than dog shit fifth edition? Also you're just a loser if you're having a hard time with players playing the game, but maybe you should play a game that is either completely different, or handles higher levels differently
>>97081684Nobody is fucking referencing that you absolutely nogames newfag. Are you responding to the wrong post or are you just babbling things that you have heard in the past?
>>97082855Another interesting example of you just babbling nonsense that has absolutely no relevance or factuality.
>>97083164Low level challenge rating enemies do not need you to Nova. Players at higher levels need to nova because their enemies have multiple times the HP of the usual fodder at low levels. This is literally the system math.
>>97083164>>97083315And in case you are too retarded to understand the math presented, a 10 CR enemy has nearly twice as much health as a 5 CR enemy, but, as was mentioned previously, the damage output potential for level 10th and a level 5th characters are nearly the same, as they take the same types of action cascades to nova. A 5th edition game master would not notice all the shit you can pull for a 5th level party quite as hard as for a 10th level party, because the 10th level party has to burst harder to take down CR appropriate enemies with basically the same tools.
>>97081342I think the problem is that design-wise the newest edition of D&D has most of the mechanics frontloaded via players leveling up instead of older editions where a lot of your power came from gathering magic items.This, along with removing gold as xp, also has the secondary effect that people need to be goaded into adventuring for 'story' or 'narrative' reasons instead of the desires to explore and amass wealth.
>>97081281Do guys like this and the Pirate Software dude actively try to look as obnoxious as possible?
Fudge everything.
>>97081684Welcome to /tg/!
>>97081903It's not numbers, it's the fact that combat turns into a flowchart based on a fuckton of feats, class abilities, accessories, and so on like it's a goddamn SRPG.
And your answer when the designers gate racial/class features behind level 12+?
>>97082979'Action' (proper noun) not 'action' (verb)
>>97081577I have add and finishing TI4 is easy. You couldn't get me to sit through 20 minutes of 5e or DM it either. I am sure high level would make me want to claw my eyes out.I hate math, but what I really hate is shit design and pointless crunch that removes agency & dumbs the game down.
>>97082099he's not a tranny but he's a trannylover
>>97082549. . . ?
>>97081281Remove 1-20 level system and replace with ranks that represent the levels of play your character is expected to partake in with their class abilities given added abilities or abilities only available at that given rank.Everything else would be character traits and updates you can buy and would update according to the rank your character is at.
>>97087613Basically the Savage Worlds ranks, you can use picrel for running your d&d games if you're not allergic to sw per se.
>>97087669I've never looked into SW before. What's the pitch deck for it?
>>97082549>What makes actions...an inherent red flag?It's codifying something that doesn't need to be codified, and then basing further game design on that arbitrary codification making it very weird and unimmersive.
>>97083377I think they just have bad eyesight and need glasses
>>97081281Dude looks like an enraged, 40 year old lesbian
>>97087764>I'm just going to say things without any substantial evidence or examples, purely on the basis of personal preference, to support an objective claim.Kid, that isn't what I asked for. Not even close.
>>97087757It's basically a universal system (extrapolated from the deadlands skirmish game) specific for fast paced pulp cinematic:>prosFun mechanics, traits are associated to a die type, the TN is (almost) always 4, with increments of 4 over that indicating extra successes (called raises), no hit ponts, just wounds and fatigue levels, modular rules (you can plug in different variant rules shipped in the corebook), decent skirmish rules, LOTS of splats (official and fan made)>consMath is a little clunky, shotguns are overpowered, has a metacurrency (bennies), use a disjointed initiative subsystem (with poker card) but makes combat fast paced and unpredictable.Here's a recap:https://2d4chan.org/wiki/Savage_WorldsHere's an actual play (using the previous edition but it's essentially the same):https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDvunq75UfH_GAUWYcYSGL_vftZG0nzR-
>>97082807yeahConsider how in the non-advanced line each expansion over OD&D codified having land, troops, followers and eventually becoming a god rulling over reality. Clearly D&D on that angle was about doing things on a bigger scale.BECMI kinda falls apart, maybe that scared WotC away from variety of mechanics and more into the tried and true "kill things", maybe they're just retarded. But it wasn't what D&D was about before they got there.
>>97088265calling something a red flag is an objetive claim for you?that's a red flag for autism
>>97081684kys newfag
>>97084309Literally what is the difference?
>>97083651>thinking is le hard
>>97088811Action noun means that you have a limited set of buttons with cooldowns to click.>>97088852It's the opposite of thinking, it's replacing infinite options for an optimal series of words to repeat every turn.
>>97088811I explained the difference
>>97081281Dnd has never been good, but E6 is the only way to play it without it getting retarded.
>>97089428That's literally every single mediocre and above RPG. If you want a simulationist system that can model every possible thing somebody could do, play FATAL.
>>97089428>>97089465Different anon but what do you propose instead of an "Actions" system? Would you rather let players do everything they can in a single turn, or does everything they do need a roll and if they fail it their turn ends? Maybe Im being retarded
>>97092460How about this:Characters in combat can do 1 single action (anthing that requires active effort and can be executed reasonably in less than a second) and have 1 reaction (anything that can be executed reflexively, for example dodging).if they need more they can but that applies a multiaction penalty for each extra action/reaction, the maximum action/reaction is equal to the number of seconds a combat round is made.
>>97092498That sounds vaguely similar to Pathfinder but I get it. I guess when you try to do something that takes longer than a second, or that can't be done in a single action, it is stretched into multiple turns?
>>97092516No you can do all on your turn as long as the number of actions don't go beyond the maximum allowed, but the piled multiaction penalty should be brutal.
>>97092522Yeah something like a flat -10 per extra action, or giving enemies bonuses on their next turn.
>>97092498you've described savage worldsthis is still an action system and the original complainer would be complaining about it
>>97092557Yes that's my source of inspiration and yes, i agree that a faggot would whine regardless, i'm just discussing for the sake of it. I like game design.
>>97081281I think 8th level should be max.I have never DMed past 8th level.My players reached 8th level twice in my practice and i ended campaign there. Past 4th level of spells, everything is either just the same, but more powerful or story-breaking, which is bad both for players and dm.Also, there are anti-narrative spells: Fly and any kind of Teleportation. They should be banned for the sake of a good story.All who play past level 10 are gay, don't have taste, they'd better play some narrative shit system.
>>97092557>>97092574I don't see a system without "Actions" ever working without coming off as annoying or gay. Most RPGs come from early war games anyway and Actions are the best way of interacting with the game and enemies. The only way I see no Actions working is if each character can only do exactly one thing and that sounds retarded and boring to play
>>97092460I play OSR so most things don't need rolling
>>97092522Why should a character be penalized for doing something that takes longer than 1 second?
>>97092801It's an artificial limitation for action economy sake that simplifies arbitration.
>>97092820Isn't doing something that takes multiple rounds penalty enough?
>>97093049Yeah but in that case the player in question would have to wait more turns to complete his intent and would make combat kind of a slog.
>>97081281Check out games like ACKS that are about getting to higher levels and add more than just combat. 5e basically falls apart around level 10 and they didn't really care cause they assumed no one would get that far.
>>97081281I have a suspicion that XP to Level 3 is actually a chick.
