>>97084503
I figured its because war was turning away from manly macho-melee's and gay shit like tactics and strategy were becoming more and more popular

>>97084535
Other way around lil bro sweetie chuddy.

>>97084535
Nope. He was mad that warriors were getting too mean. Unironically

This despite accepting evil clerics

>>97084570
Just cause we gotta fight to the death doesn't mean saying slurs or child rape is acceptable.

>>97084576
Um... are you just heckin raycis against valid and wholesome MAPs? No wonder evilbadG-D is sad.

>>97084503
I genuinely don't think you could pay me to care about D&D lore. Get a life.

>>97084503
What is it with you obsessed autists and the need to rehash these types of threads over and over again? Why the obsessive hate for Paizo and Pathfinder? Why do you, and I do mean specifically you, need to make these threads over and over again? We all know its one obsessed autist.

>>97084535
He found he didn't like that his portfolio and nature as a god of war increased evil, so he got Calistria, the elven goddess of trickery, prostitution, and revenge to tell Acheakek, mantis god of assassination and enforcer of divinity, what he was under the armor: all of the mortal's violent urges. This got Ache very mad because he thought Gorum was a pretender to divinity and so he killed Gorum like Gorum wanted.

This, of course, was a very bad thing, unleashing war and violent conflict everywhere because Gorum was a moderating force.

Now theres a lot of demigods blessed by god blood and god armor running around, open war has been declared by multiple countries, and monsters are on the rise.

Aka there's now a bunch of reasons for adventurers to go adventurin', the release of mythic rules, warfare rules, and several new classes, along with more changes to the setting that further deOGL-ify it and further separate it from PF1e.

>>97084635
>He found he didn't like that his portfolio and nature as a god of war increased evil

Cool of him to only just now realize that War results in pillage and rape etc

>>97084671
As the collective avatar of all mortals violent urges, he wanted to guide and hone them to productive ends, but was stymied in all areas because of his followers, of how mortals think and act, but also because he himself is violence incarnate. Wanting to be something other than just the orchestrater of mass violent conflict and finding you simply cant, would get very tiring very quickly. So he did the only thing he could think of, get himself killed to end his nature.

Of course, this was a gigantic failure, causing widespread problems basically everywhere, because a power vacuum is never a good thing.

>>97084740
>violent urges, he wanted to guide and hone them to productive ends
Like what? Building the biggest sandcastles? Digging da biggest holes? Discovering new masturbation techniques?

>>97084740
If he is an egregore of war, how can he be against war? It's stupid.

>>97084503
Eh, it worked for destruction from the sandman comics.

>>97084827
My understanding of PF gods is that they're not fundamental unchanging incarnations of an aspect of reality, so much as an unfathomably powerful being that chooses to embody and administer that aspect.
Gorum foresaw that under his stewardship, war was becoming less "conflict to determine the rightful hierarch of strength" and more "just keep fighting until everything is broken", and that eventually that would lead to an apocalyptic conflict. It's not that he was sad about war, as much as wary of mortals' propensity to pursue war beyond reason, which was slowly driving him insane. Gorum wants war and conflict to have a purpose. Total endless pointless war and destruction is more in line with Rovagug.
As for why he thought getting someone to kill him would be a good idea, I can't say. Not how I'd have done it.

>warhammer god of war: angry gay retard
>paizo god of war: whiny bitch retard
>god of war god of war: whiny cuck retard
>tolkien god of war: angry retard
>conan god of war: angry retard
Why are gods of war always retards in fantasy settings?

>>97084635
>This, of course, was a very bad thing, unleashing war and violent conflict everywhere because Gorum was a moderating force.
>Now theres a lot of demigods blessed by god blood and god armor running around, open war has been declared by multiple countries, and monsters are on the rise.

>don't like that your portfolio can increase evil
>suicide
>suddenly even more mortals are at war, empowered by evil, empowering evil than if you just stuck to your lane
He's a fucking moron.

>>97084827
Destruction of the Endless, from Sandman, was the avatar and very principle of breaking things down and he wanted to create instead, as an example of such a trope used elsewhere. Just because he was an avatar of all the violent urges of mortals turned divinity doesn't mean he wasn't his own person. The gods may be avatars of their domains but they are still thinking feeling people with their own personalites and agendas. Especially the ones that were once mortals or bear mortal urges.

>>97084869
exactly.

>>97084886
>Total endless pointless war and destruction is more in line with Rovagug.
Precisely, he was becoming an avenue for the return of Rovagug in some fashion.

>>97084906
>He's a fucking moron.
This was not in doubt. He is the god of violent conflict and the people who tend toward such aren't exactly the brightest bulbs. I mean, what can you expect for intelligence in an entity composed of all of mortals' violent urges?

>>97084895
Eberron has a couple of wargods who aren't total retards.

Paizo writing is retarted, more news at 11.

>>97084886
>My understanding of PF gods is that they're not fundamental unchanging incarnations of an aspect of reality, so much as an unfathomably powerful being that chooses to embody and administer that aspect.
You are partially correct, as many of the gods were mortals who went through their apotheosis through one way or another, and thus keep a lot of their personality. But Gorum is the one god where this is not the case as he came into existence from a concept rather than a being. He absolutely should be an emanation of his domain.
>war was becoming less "conflict to determine the rightful hierarch of strength" and more "just keep fighting until everything is broken"
But that goes against his previous depictions, where he was described as a god who saw war as an end in of itself rather than the means to achieving something.
>Gorum’s priests believe that if the world ever became free of war and combat, his spirit would
abandon Golarion in disgust, but he would eagerly return should mortals ever take up arms for
glorious battle once more. Despite advances in magic, technology, morality, and the tools of war, Our Lord in Iron is remarkably constant, for his focus is on battle itself, not the reasons for it or the shapes of the weapons used.
>>97084921
>from Sandman
An even more stupid piece of media.

>>97084895
This is because a god of war who fucking loves war and embodies all masculine virtues is not politically-correct in today's media. He has to be torn down and deconstructed.
If you have someone saying "War is fucking awesome, it's a crucible for boys to become MEN, I love killing my enemies and raping their women" it's probably hate speech.
I note that those who hate war will be at the mercy of those who love war. It's why the civilized world has no real answer on how to deal with an entire race of violent retards.

>>97084765
All the shit martial arts teachers talk about as benefits of the art beyond "I want to beat up my dad". Valor and dedication and shit.

>>97085380
>it's probably hate speech.
No, just very obviously an edgy teenager or manchild.

>>97084895
As you can see here >>97085380 it's because while a specific war may be good, being generically pro-war is a retard take.
>>97084765
Killing bad guys, resolving unjust negotiations, being cool
>>97084906
>God of violent solutions
>Cannot imagine non-violent solutions
tragic really

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>>97085380
>This is because a god of war who fucking loves war and embodies all masculine virtues is not politically-correct in today's media.
Erastil and Torag are right there to embody the virtues of manhood, and they're two gods that somehow got through the madness of 2014-2024.

>>97085465
To be fair, ultimately all authority is derived from force or the threat of force. And everyone loves a war where they win.

>>97085516
>two literal whos were who were made irrelevant

>>97085516
I'm pretty sure that Erastil originally only supported marriage between man and a woman. Now his profile states that he's totally okay with polygamy if 'they mean it'.

>>97085542
Meanwhile the three hottest goddesses got turned into a polyamorous lesbian threesome so overwhelmingly powerful that you can worship them as a pantheon.

>>97085451
None of that actually means anything, and it can be a bad joke. Look at Chinese martial arts, which were turned into a tool of the state.
You know what happened when one Chinese MMA fighter went "Look, this is nonsense, this ain't fighting" and pasted multiple 'martial arts masters'? The state did its level best to destroy him and ruin his life.
The whole point of martial arts is that it's effective for fighting. If not, you're being sold a false bill of goods.

>>97085556
Man they REALLY REALLY FUCKING LOVE LESBIANS, don't they

>>97084503
The idea of war gods being concerned with the manner in which war is prosecuted is hardly novel. That shit's older than antiquity.

>>97085516
>Erastil
You didnt hear how they made him come out and say that he was misguided about having traditional family structures as one of his tenets?

>>97085561
Paizo's obsessed with lesbians, WotC's obsessed with race. I think Paizo's got the edge here, but they're still really fucking annoying with how every other new NPC has a trans mom or in a gay relationship.

But you know what's the worst part? I would forgive all of that. All of it. If they still had hot women with huge tits. They stopped adding those to games. They stopped adding anything that could be construed as "fetish-y" to games (besides three different ways to get HRT) And "fetish-y" just really means, "straight men might like this." It's so tiresome to complain about this and hear someone say, "just brew it yourself, brah" or "every character is playersexual" when that's not really the point. It's that one specific type of person is being heavily pandered to and guys like me are left out in the dust. Give us *one* babe, c'mon. Just one!

>>97085451
>All the shit martial arts teachers talk about as benefits of the art beyond "I want to beat up my dad". Valor and dedication and shit.
Most martial arts dont have that. Only east asian buddhist-inspired martial arts did. All western martial arts were focused on warfare, with some consideration to honor and sportmanship.

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Two men walked on a beach in the sun
One left footprints, the other left none
One was a man that no man obeyed
The other a god from the ancient days

"Look" said the man "how my kind make war
Ive summoned you here to ask what for"
"For wealth, for power" the god replied
"For life, for freedom, for some king's lies"

"Four of those five" the man then said
"Are not enough to appease the dead"
"For all my kind this strife must cease
So now i bid you to conjure peace"

The god said "yes, though it grieves me sore
For i was also a god of war
And i remember what you forget
Four of those five you may still regret"

He raised his voice and he waved his hand
All fighting stopped at the god's command
No voice ventured an angry word
No fist was raised and no weapon stirred

In time the man called the old god back
"Look!" He cried, "what my people lack!
One lord rules over all the earth
And we're all his slaves from the hour of birth!"

"He owns all wealth and he owns all land.
We starve and die under his command.
He speaks the truth and he gives us peace
But all i long for is our release"

"Yes" said the god, "this is what you willed-
Only thus is your wish fulfilled.
War's five causes i took away
But i will give four of them back today."

He raised his hand and his voice once more
And all the world overturned in war
And when the last of those fires went cold
There was no lord in the world at all.

"Go rebuild now" the old god said
"Feed the living and bury the dead-
And remember this when you speak of war
And think about what is worth fighting for"

The sun is also a warrior
Knowledge can also destroy
Nor can the kindest will
Preserve you from the kill
Not all of wisdom brings joy

>>97085597
... I don't even know where to begin. You're overestimating the proportion of non-cis-het characters. It is annoying to the gay men that they have no representation because all the gayness is 100% lesbians only. It's better than having zero representation. And there's PUHLENTY of cheesecake meant for the cis-het male gaze. What's happening to you is that you're realizing it isn't absolutely 100% all designed for your lust. You still have way more wankbank material than you can really consume. You're just encountering wankbank material that is designed for other people, too. You aren't left out in the dust. And not just because you can wank over the slutty lesbians just fine. You aren't left out in the dust because you're still included. That hasn't changed. You're just not privileged to be the ONLY target audience.

Or, in other words, get over yourself. It's ok for other people to have stuff too. You don't have less just because someone else has something finally.

It's not strictly true that Paizo is moving away from "fetish-y" content, is it? Because I haven't noticed such a shift. I would oppose it if they tried to de-sexualize content, but I would also oppose it if they tried to make it just a porn game... Just like I would oppose it if they tried to exclude non-cis-het audiences, and I would oppose it if they tried to exclude cis-het audiences...

But, again, you need to learn how to share, especially since in this case it literally doesn't take anything away from you.

>>97085730
>... I don't even know where to begin.
Reddit-tier response, followed by boilerplate gaslighting.

>>97084671
Hey be fair, as CN he has to be retarded.

>>97084921
>The gods may be avatars of their domains but they are still thinking feeling people with their own personalites and agendas.
What a gay way to write gods, they shouldn't be people they should be cosmic and primal forces that occasionally stuff themselves into people shaped holes.
>>97085114
Doubtful, it's eberron after all

>>97085730
did you copy paste this faggotry from reddit/xitter or is it hand crafted bait?

>>97085844
It looks hand-crafted, nobody says "cishet" unironically.

>>97085516
Torag was cucked by a literal who orc who took over his role in the godclaw

>>97084895
jews

>>97085730
Where is the art designed to appeal to straight men in a current Paizo product that isn't some trash nobody ever heard of with like five players?

Anons call Paizo "Pozzo" for a reason.

>>97084895
Because intelligent god of war would be overgod ruling above all other gods, mostly.

>>97086150

Stop pretending other people agree with you. It's sad.

>>97084921
>from Sandman
Ah, yes, otherwise known as "Gaiman rips off Piers Anthony: the Comic Book".

>>97086110
Have you seen the goddess of love and beauty? Her entire ass and most of her tits are hanging out the side of that dress. Shelyn is literally a porn star. Canonically.
Didn't even take me two seconds, anon.

>>97084503
Games?

>>97084895
They based them on Ares the Spartan's patron god whose dominion over war waned with the rise of the Athenian's military prowess.

>>97086050
Sounds right for a dorf

>>97086173
The difference is I can verify it.
https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/search/text/pozzo/

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>>97086243
>Have you seen the goddess of love and beauty? Her entire ass and most of her tits are hanging out the side of that dress. Shelyn is literally a porn star. Canonically.
Ah yes, this is her entire ass and most of her tits hanging out. Literally a porn star.

She's a polyamorous lesbian, by the way. Is your boomer-ass going to suggest that's "hot" because, "woah, two girls kissing?"

Find a better example. This is the part where you post art that's from 2008 as "definitive proof" that Pathfinder is, "for the cishets."

>>97086110
>Where is the art designed to appeal to straight men in a current Paizo product that isn't some trash nobody ever heard of with like five players?
He's either going to post art from an era of Paizo that's dead and gone, or Literally Some Girl and insisting that her having noticeable breasts makes her "straight bait." Nevermind this is the company that once released a white-haired wolf-girl that asserts herself into a relationship with a male PC because, "he smells nice" and "she needs a mate." (Greta, Reign of Winter) Or the setting where a cutie patootie Succubus gets a one-of-a-kind chance at redemption and wants to achieve it by getting into a monogamous relationship with (you) as the party saves the world (Arueshalae, Wrath of the Righteous.) What all of these examples have in common is that they're from the early 2010s at most. If we can do math, that's over a decade and a half ago.

Times have changed, the company has changed, and insisting otherwise is as delusional as insisting Bungie's "got it" with Halo 5 because they're still technically the company that released Halo 3.

But if that chucklehead posts an example from 2e that could be construed as "for the male gaze" than I'm all for it.

>>97085858
I want to live in your world that hasn't discovered Bluesky or Tumblr.

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>>97087373
Could even find older art of her that fits that bill, closest found was this and she's fat in it

>>97087418
Couldn't*

>>97087373
Come on, now. Every depiction of lesbians that isn't made by actual lesbians is made for straight males.

>>97085705
RIP Leslie Fish

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Haven't looked at Pathfinder in a hot minute, have they fucked up Urgathoa yet or is she still going strong on her original theme/look?

>>97087373
Cool buzzwords. You will never be a woman

>>97087932
This is what she looks like now

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>>97088163
Forgot pic

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>>97084503
His death was pretty all over the place (I personally think Sarenrae would have been a better pick for the Godsrain), but the module it comes from is pretty fucking kino
>Dedicated assassin mission with specific mechanics
>Fighting a protean
>Red Mantis Stuff in general

>>97088167
>turned her into an androgynous troon

holy shit not even the fucking evil death god can be left the fuck be, paizo needs to go bankrupt already

>>97088460
How is that androgynous? It's ugly but unmistakably female.

>>97084740
Sounds way too much like a new writer on on board the project and wanted to write off the things and concept they personally did not care for. So stupid shit like this was made up.

>>97088611
sorry I didn't factor in that you suck cock.

>>97084740
Wouldn't a collective avatar of violent urges basically be Khorne? A crazy angry guy that fucking loves bloodsports?

>>97084503
Still better than might come to traditional games from vidya, like "god of war" being in fact a peace-loving hippie (Tyr from GoD: Ragnarok).

>>97088611
That anon is deeply porn brained and thus requires massive unmistakable tits in a semi-realistic style or otherwise gets triggered by the idea that they may be trans somehow. Its idiocy and a type of fear based right wing thinking that hates ambiguity.

Its also a picture depicting a Gebite representation of Urgathoa. Its not even an actual picture of her, just how some random person from Geb thinks she looks.

>>97088676
>Wouldn't a collective avatar of violent urges basically be Khorne?
In some cases, yes, but being made of does not mean being beholden to. You can be all the violent urges of mortals while still being your own person, you'll just have certain biases.

>>97088662
And you would be wrong. This was a company wide, multi dev affair that even had the original main devs.

>>97088673
You have brain damage.
There's nothing androgynous about that hip-to-waist ratio.

>>97086156
I think the Greeks were on to something l with Ares and Athena being what you could call a God of Combat and a separate God of War, if you see what I mean. I know

While some of the explanations in this thread are better than the boiler plate "war god sad about war" explanation I heard before this still doesnt seem well executed to me. Especially with the aftermath seeming to have the opposite intended effect. Have Gorum recognize a problem and choose to go out swinging, or if you are keeping the aftermath thats in place portray his death as a intentional attempt at divine WMD proliferation or something.

>>97085558
That's because he committed the ultimate sin in Chinese culture: disrespectfully and personally insulting those in charge. If he had used the appropriate level of tact, it wouldn't have been a problem at all.

>>97084895
Because war is primarily the domain of angry retards like

>>97084906

>>97088824
That's pretty much every culcha ever.

>>97085380
It's crazy to me that people will make the argument that they should be able to kill and rape the people they don't like are the same that claim other groups of people are violent retards

>>97087373
I love how you collapse into sobbing nonsense and calling everyone boomers after you got fucking crushed. Listen, anon. She's not real. You don't have to get your feelings hurt over the thought that she'll never be with you. Being an incel isn't cool, but it's extra stupid to get so butthurt over fictional characters in an obscure fantasy game.

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>>97089039
100%

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>>97089121
Damn, this nigga's mad.

>>97089142
No one's mad that you'll remain a virgin, anon. No one but you.

>>97084635
thanks for the rundown, I had heard about this but I just pay too much attention to the Pathfinder lore beyond what I can rip off for my own games.
>>97084503
have you tried not playing Pathfinder?

>>97084630
Why are you a demoralization poster? Do you get some type of thrill from just shitting on random threads that you don't like?

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>>97085380
All we're sayin' is, GIVE WAR A CHANCE

>>97084535
Nah, that's Khorne you're thinking of.

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>>97084503
>a full on god of war with an array of traditionally masculine qualities in our chungus heckin progressive leftist theater pl....I mean game
Too much for current Paizo. Ever since 2e started they have doubled the pozzedness and smoothed any remaining edges left with various retcons. And I say "remaining", because the progress had already began by the end of 1e.
Not to say of course that Paizo was ever really Gigax-level of based. But it did carry some level of edginess and non-PC elements with things like the Whore Queens, Folka, or The Hook Mountain Massacre for example.

The overall hobby of TTRPGs (for various reasons) has always been more or less gay as fuck when it came to its corporate public presentation (not talking about individual tables). Which sometimes makes me a bit ashamed of liking it.

>>97088709
You'd think the Geb depiction would be more out there than that rather tame depiction, considering just who Urgathoa is and what's she's all about.

>>97088741
NTA but something is up with that hip, especially on her left side. Something is just off about the art and I just can't unsee it.

>>97086243
LMAOOOOOO

>>97088709
time to stop fuckin slagbeasts bro

>>97089178
yep you're mad kek

Gorum woke Gorum broke

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>>97084535
FPBP.
The future of warfare is some fat greasy fuck sitting behind a computer masturbating to pictures of anime girls as he absentmindedly directs drones to annihilate villages of peaceful sand people thousands of miles away across an ocean.

>>97084895
Because war gods are always retards who care more about eternal war, or war for war's sake. Rarely or probably never do you get something more like a war god who embodies strategy and tactics over just war itself.

>>97089978
>traditionally masculine
Whenever people say this they mean "traditionally masculine" in the fake pop culture way that is actually acting like a retarded savage that drags everyone down and makes men look bad, yet is somehow praised.

>>97084503
Pathfinder is such a weird setting because they keep humiliating all of their major villains and then creating new plot points that also go nowhere

>worldwound

Resolved, demons lost

>Tar Bephon

Lost to random orc tribes after barely doing anything. Is in a cuck cage.

>Cheliax

Good guys basically won

>Taldor Civil War

Nationalists lost and are now governed by a leacful progressive

>White Witches

Lost

>Crimson Court Lady

Lost
…

Why are the villains so weak?

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>>97090082
This is the future

wasn't the war of immortals supposed to pump the setting full of new villains and quest worthy problems? i feel like the point was to fill the setting back up after the years worth of adventures resolved old problems.

>>97090173
I mean, that's pretty awesome.

>>97089039
I don't see the contradiction. If your culture is superior, of course you should use that power to oppress and exploit those weaker than you. What's the point of power if you don't use it?
This is why the colonial era was basically a golden age.

>>97090199
How did those villains rise to power? Were they completely unopposed?
For example, how long did the white witches rule in Irrisen? It was like thousands of years. For like hundreds of generations, the peasants would have been entirely justified in tell you that evil had won, if you asked them... The Worldwound lasted for a few centuries, like three or four or something. And the demon lords are still there. It's not like the entire Abyss was deleted.

>>97084503
>Paizo

More like Pozzedo if you ask me.

>>97090199
There's that dragon who's about to rape the 5 Kings mountains and that kraken who rules a whole ass country in Tian Xia. Galt is still a leftist revolutionary shithole too.

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>>97089121
>after you got fucking crushed.
This is a level of cope I've never thought possible. The guy you're responding to called out the claim that Shelyn is "literally a porn star. Canonically" with evidence both visual and explanatory. He's not sobbing, he's not crushed. He's not a mess. He refuted the claim.

And even before Shelyn was turned into a dyke, she was explicitly the virginal "always the bridesmaid, never the bride" type woman. She was an unattainable beauty. There was absolutely nothing porn star about her, to the point her Heralds are described as taking on forms the viewer deems the most beautiful without eliciting sexual desire.

>>97090027
On that I agree.

>>97090082
based, death to browns

>>97090928
nah he (you) got obliterated lol

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>>97084895
Its an ancient tradition. Ares was a bitch retard too. Athena beat his ass in the Iliad and the Greeks really didn't care for him or worship him much.

>>97090797
>This is why the colonial era was basically a golden age.
You have to be 18 to post here

>>97089978
>traditionally masculine qualities
ah yes, my favorite masculine activity: dying for some rich guy's profits.

>>97084895
Because war is also retarded.

>>97084503
Pathfinder narratives are stories about retards, for retards, by retards.

>>97084503
Is there a way to make a God of War have depth without turning them into a sissy crybaby faggot? In my world the God of War is also the God of Peace, in that his entire role is bless his followers in the sense of "Their blades exist to keep others in their sheathe"

>Gorum is a tumblr tranny
This makes Amiri make sense retroactively

>>97085730
>non-cis-het
Stop trying to summon demons by speaking in tongues. It's never going to work, and Moloch is not going to reward you no matter what sacrifices you make.

>>97088774
Athena was goddess of justified war and honourable duels, while Ares was simply god of war, violence and slaughter.
Mythological Kratos was his son, and a lesser god of violence (his name literally means it).

>>97084635
>Why the hate over Paizo
>prove themselves to have the actual good taste to understand players enjoy crunch sometimes
>prove that they're willing to actually let whacky be whacky with a genuine Kitchen Sink setting that is at least genuine, unlike FR being a disingenuous Kitchen Sink setting
>then they somehow flub on all the pandering to social justice stuff and genuine retardation when it comes to writing
I like Pathfinder, I think Paizo did a good thing by making it so Wizards can stop being faggots, and I think PF in general is a good system. What's mainly to hate is just Paizo writers being kind of retarded

>>97092839
>What's mainly to hate is just Paizo writers being kind of retarded
Paizo's writers are interesting because they aren't so much SocJus brain-tards as they are tired old white guys emulating SocJus values. The people that gave us the fetish-y weirdness in early Golarion are the same ones now writing about lesbian threesomes or transgender knight squads. There's something almost charming in the way James Jacobs writes, like when your dad tries really hard to get into contemporary politics. It's certainly annoying, and I would be the first to gripe about Paizo's current narrative, but there's a sloppiness to the writing that makes it feel like some dumbass trying to do what he thinks is right more than some cold corporate-dressed ghoul that knows precisely how and when to strike.

Like, take the thing that started this whole gripe; Shelyn/Sarenrae/Desna polyamorous threesome. This didn't exactly come out of the aether - JJ's been begging for this lore for years, even during the height of "edgy Paizo." This isn't a man trying to pull a Mercer "goddess of civilization and goddess of nature are in a gay rocky relationship," he's just a guy that wants to see three hot chicks making out. Which is an antiquated desire given how thoroughly most of us have learned that lesbians "aren't for straights" but JJ is an antiquated guy. He thinks Lawful Anything means Evil Anything because he's got a hard-on for "sticking it to the man, man" with Chaos. He's an idiot, not an ideologue.

>>97091724
Then leave.

>>97092839
No one enjoys crunch.

>>97088774
>>97091707
>>97092349

Athena started out as a city god and then co-opted the more positive aspects of Ares when Athens rose to power and they started recording all the legends. The only legends really involving Ares left are ones that make him look bad rather than the Spartan ones that made him look good. I believe you could replace almost all of Athena's appearances in Greek myth with Ares and you would get a sense of what the non-Athenians thought of him.

>>97093365
Paizo's current writing sounds like they asked an SJW/DEI consultant for advice and that consultant just gave them a list of things to include and remove without actually looking into the setting. That leads to the "checklist writing" you describe.

>>97093693
Even the Spartans had a bigger temple to Athena then they did to Ares.

>>97085705
love this song

>>97093983
Only later. after Athens kicked their ass. Ares and Aphrodite (in a material/warrior aspect) were there primary gods until Athens turned Aphrodite into a cheating slut and Ares into a pansy.

>>97093365
yeah i agree , the old time writers in paizo really behave like you just said , i also noticed that the older they get the more they are afraid of losing their jobs ( being replaced) and tend to go with the flow regarding modern politics wether they agree or not.

But holy shit , James Jacob cannot write Lawfull characters without being evil even if his life depends on it , i honestly think old age turned him into an arrogant retard that cannot accept that he has limitations or can be wrong , the best proof of that is WoTR iomedae interraction in the original AP , thank god Owlcat rewrote that mess of AP into something good and with depth.

>>97093365
>even during the height of "edgy Paizo."
Are you guys confused on when Paizo supposedly went socjus? Because its been socjus for most of its existence. Theres been gays and lesbians for ages. Trans people gained prominence in the setting early in 1e thanks to a trans woman, and trans people have been common since.

The Prismatic Ray, the lesbian throuple of goddesses, isn't something new or out of place, its been a natural development. And Lawful tending toward evil has major real world precedence with the rise of fascism and how appeals to law tend to lead toward the rise of authoritarian dickbags and evil assholes.

Im getting a major vibe of newfags and tourists who only know 1e and even 3.5 Paizo from second hand sources here on 4chan where they were supposedly /ourguys/ for being weird and edgy and dark before slipping into that damned social justice/woke/bad leftist style of game.

They've been woke leftists the entire time. They've been on the side of social justice and have stayed on the side of social justice the entire time. They arent performative like WotC but actual lefties, and as time goes on they stay lefties.

As for supposedly removing the edginess, they really haven't. Theres still a bunch of dark nasty shit in the setting. Sahkils are still supernatural serial killers and horror monsters. Velstracs are still cenobites. Kaiju still roam the world stomping on everything. The ogres and hill giants are still evil redneck hillbillies and all the things those do. The writing just doesn't focus on playing up these evils or being explicit in what the actions of these monsters are. It trusts its players and readers to understand what these things get up to once you understand what they are.

>>97095350
>Because its been socjus for most of its existence. Theres been gays and lesbians for ages. Trans people gained prominence in the setting early in 1e thanks to a trans woman, and trans people have been common since.
The crux is whether you believe that those kinds of people existing at all is solely due to a shadowy 'agenda', or mimicking actual legend and mythology that did indeed have such outlandish things and more as a part of them.
I wonder just how sterile a mythology would spring from a mindset like yours.

>>97095541
>solely due to a shadowy 'agenda', or mimicking actual legend and mythology
Or get this, the authors and devs learned a bunch from someone of a group they didn't know anything about and include them because they like having them there. No shadow agenda (because conspiracy theories are a symptom of mental illness), and no to mythology because not everything needs to be based on legends and myth. Sometimes you can include a thing because its the human condition and just leave it at that.

>how sterile a mythology would spring from a mindset like yours.
Better than yours.

I wish paizo finances were public so we could see the drop they got with the excessive wike garbage
they like to shove ( no way they dont have a loss reduced revenue).

>>97090173
You do that now, only you're useless to everyone, including yourself. You ain't better, you're objectively worse.

>>97095717
I'd buy 2E if the people at Paizo weren't consistent retards hellbent on trying to push me away from their trite. Their loss, I guess.

>>97095350
Nah, you're conflating two things.
Certainly they've always been leftists doing leftesque things- you're correct there. But there's a big difference between that and "we can't have phylacteries because that's antisemitic" and "we can't have races any more" and the general removal of slavery and any other morally challenging things that left coast liberals will tut-tut at you discussing (the only slavery can be REAL WORLD slavery where ALL WHITES owned ALL BLACKS and should be DESTROYED as a result- or at least that was the tone a couple years ago).

Paizo being lefties and having some socially left themes and various other identities isn't new, but they way this switched dramatically in its presentation is new and shitty. They went pretty hardcore into not wanting us as an audience.

>>97095350
>The Prismatic Ray, the lesbian throuple of goddesses, isn't something new or out of place, its been a natural development
Read the room, man. The issue has never been the existence of the Prismatic Ray or even the proliferation of lesbians or trans people in the lore, it's the utter absence of anything on "our" side being offered. As the anon you quoted said, the Throuple was around since what, 2012? Ancient lore. This was also the time we were getting sexy succubus love interests, busty nymphs and cute short-haired blondes. I still remember the art of Nirmathas/Molthune with some buxom woman in a corset, all French-style. There were whores, there was sex - there was women that pined for men!

Where is that, now? This is something of a petty complaint, but it's something that has niggled what I imagine to be everyone here for along time. It's probably the biggest gripe most of us have with modern tabletop; LGBT are the darlings, they're the beloved fanbase of the corporation. There are three types of HRT in Golarion, there are several gods dedicated to transitioning, there are multiple prominent trans characters and just as many lesbians - to say nothing of the women, who largely dominate much of the Inner Sea (Cheliax, Andoran and Taldor especially, with Qadira being cowed by their Shah marrying an abolitionist.)

These things are, in a vacuum, innocuous. People did in fact bitch about Anevia in Wrath of the Righteous, but people got over it because there was also Arueshalae. Nowadays, we're getting Anevia but no Arueshalae. That's my gripe, that's the point. There is no cishet-oriented content in the game anymore, at least nothing that isn't legacy. Where is the stuff for straight men? Come now, present it. Maybe I overlooked it, maybe we all overlooked it, but Pathfinder 2e looks to a lot of people like some lame feminist power-fantasy where men secede power to women and everyone is a lesbian.

>>97095832
>"we can't have phylacteries because that's antisemitic" and "we can't have races any more"
Phylacteries as used by liches are badly named and entirely too obscure, often being mistaken for the jewish tefillin and thus being unwittingly antisemitic. So they got changed to Soul Cages because this clarifies what it is, what its function is, and doesnt being in any unwanted associations. Meanwhile the Phylactery of Faithfulness, a literal tefillin is still in the game because it isn't antisemitic. People upset about this change are retarded autists who hate any kind of change, and its entirely a fucking nothing burger. The lich is still a lich and it still needs its soul in a special magic box.

Races got removed because right wingers couldn't stop being racist shitholes (while blaming leftists for noticing this), and lots of newfags to the games were being retarded about these different species being literally just variations on human ethnic groups. Its been a problem issue that finally boiled over and got resolved. Shit happens, move the fuck on. And frankly, I like the term Ancestry. Its still fantastic and old timey but doesnt have any of the very annoying baggage of the word race.
Plus it helps create a nice mnemonic around character creation, you do your ABCs, Ancestry, Background, Class. It is entirely a beneficial change.

>the general removal of slavery and any other morally challenging things
Slavery got removed because its a cheap trope that has gotten entirely too common. Not to mention a year long Society event that worked toward establishing the removal of slavery. This wasn't a removal by fiat, this was players driving the settings change. Why are you people so obsessed with slavery and the desperate need for it to be referenced everywhere? Its fucking weird, like there is some ulterior motive for the argument.

As for morally challenging stuff, L O fucking L.

>>97093540
>no u
Get off the computer and do your homework

>>97095832
>>97096200
>As for morally challenging stuff, L O fucking L.
The sahkils still exist in all the horror movie awfulness. Velstracs still exist, and share even more cenobite than before. Daemons are just as monstrous as before. The only thing that's changed is that they arent upfront and in your face about how edgy and cruel they are. And because you idiotic people need it in your face and blatant you think it isn't there. There is still all the "morally challenging" stuff there. Its just now presented in a way that allows groups to ignore it or delve in fully.

>>97096145
All I'm getting from this is a need for spank bank material so you can jack off to ttrpg manuals. Grow the fuck up and stop thinking like a fucking hormonal teenager (unless you're an actual hormonal teenager and then you should GTFO or be underage b&). If you cant find any straight women, or things that appeal to straight men, you ain't looking or reading the books. Or you are and being triggered and thus distracted by all the trans, gays, and lesbians. But thats a you problem and not one of the games problems.

And if your only hearing about how there isn't any straight stuff, well it s because the queer people are talking about all the stuff that interests them. And I'm not going to go in to find an example of spank bank shit for you. Im not straight, and I really dont fucking care about finding shit to jack off to in my ttrpgs, and especially not for someone on 4chan.

>the paizo shill is a faggot
to the surprise of no one

>>97096282
>The gay man sees no issue with modern Paizo
Ah, that explains it. Why are you instructing straight men on how they should feel?

>>97096302
>>97096309
Do Iike men? Yes.
Do I like women? Yes.
Does Paizo provide for me in a bountiful manner? Yes.

I didn't say I was gay. Only not straight. But you fags like to assume shit because you're retarded.

>>97096319
More like your opinion doesn't mean anything because it's coming from a place of deep privilege. You've been the darling of tabletop for over a decade now and you're too high on your own supply to see it. Of course you're telling us to "get over it," because our complaints are attacking your position of authority.

>>97096200
>Phylacteries as used by liches are badly named and entirely too obscure
At this point more people know phylacyery in the Lich sense than the jewish sense, and anyone claiming otherwise is being a disingenuous faggot.
>Races got removed because right wingers couldn't stop being racist shitholes (while blaming leftists for noticing this)
This literally never happened
>and lots of newfags to the games were being retarded about these different species being literally just variations on human ethnic groups.
Skill issue
>Slavery got removed because its a cheap trope
It's the cornerstone of an oppression, you can't have any real evil civilization without some form of slavery. Otherwise all you'd have is genocide, which should be a much more "cheap trope" to pedantic faggots like (You)

>>97085451
Why would the god of violent conflict want people to chat about art? Why would he care about shit like valour, unless he's actually the god of valour? Surely what he'd want is perpetual war. Maybe he'd be a fan of medicine, because it gets people back into the fight. Maybe he'd oppose genocide because it deletes a potential enemy from future battlefields. I don't see why he'd want discipline or honour, unless they are a cause of more conflict.

>>97096333
>because our complaints are attacking your position of authority
More like whiny desperate entitlement from losing center stage after 3 decades, and being forced to share it with those damned blacks, fags, and queers for a decade now.

>>97096340
>entirely too obscure
What I meant by this is their actual nature of being Christian phylacteries, bejeweled items made from precious metals centered around holding sacred relics and holy scripture. Very few ttrpg players know of these things and wrongly and anitsemitically assume its the jewish tefillin. Paizo noticed this and changed them. Its also a nice way of deD&Ding the game.
>This literally never happened
Of course not, racists never do anything racist and always take responsibility for their racism causing problems. Come off it, were on fucking 4chan, where racist orc posting was practically invented.
>you can't have any real evil civilization without some form of slavery.
Skill issue on your part. You just lack imagination. It really is that simple.

>>97096433
>and being forced to share it with those damned blacks, fags, and queers for a decade now.
We're not sharing anything, my guy. We're off the stage entirely.

>>97084886
>Total endless pointless war and destruction is more in line with Rovagug
Sounds like this Rovagug fellow ought to be the god of war. Gorum sounds like he'd make a better human rights lawyer.

>>97096443
>We're not sharing anything, my guy. We're off the stage entirely.
lol, the only people off the stage are whiny entitled incels and manchildren who refused to share their toys. Most of the devs of Paizo were and still are straight and "cis-het". There is still "straight" material if you arent just looking for jack off material. I will never understand the need or desire for your game manual to also be your spank bank. Just fucking weird.
Plenty of PF and SF players are straight. Youre just upset that there's queers and the game focuses on being a game and not jack off material, so you stomped off the stage like a butthurt little child.

>>97090082
We're most of the way to fully autonomous drone weapons, the future will be the asymmetrical release of anonymous drone munitions over civilian areas to gradually make civilization impossible. Since it will be dirt cheap and impossible to protect against, even private actors will be able to render areas effectively uninhabitable if they feel like it.

And I can't think of anything better honestly. London, you step outside, WHAM hit by a drone the size of a pocket puck that turns you inside out. New York? Paris? Moscow? All the same. Nobody can even get to their car without some kind of big goofy personal cope cage and a bomb suit. They have to build underground tunnels so people can get to work, every house turns into a bunker. Total, nonstop, constant 24/7 terror on a global scale.

Urbanoid subhumans finally get a taste of the terror they deserve! That's the fucking future!

>>97096531
Meds, tranny.

>>97096433
>Very few ttrpg players know of these things and wrongly and anitsemitically assume its the jewish tefillin.
Nobody did this, nobody does this.
>Come off it, were on fucking 4chan, where racist orc posting was practically invented.
Or this
>You just lack imagination. It really is that simple.
Name one fictional evil society that doesn't incorporate a form of slavery but also isn't just mob of murder hobos
Go

>>97096607
Oooooo looks like you're feeling some feels there, little buddy. Ask your therapist about what medications might help.

>>97095786
ChatGPT response

>>97084503
>Left wing pigs write setting
>It's retarded
Many such cases!

>>97096681
>no u
Okay but seriously, meds.

>>97096914
Yeah, go take yours. Or is the problem that you're American so you can't afford to get meds and that's why you're acting like this?

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103 KB PNG

>>97084635

>>97085451
Wanting to beat up your dad is a valiant pursuit. Its a self cultivation to overcome your progenitor.

>>97097160
>anon hallucinates that pancakes are out to get him

>>97097187
NTA, You genuinely retarded or plain disingenous lmao