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I am an American man who came to visit Egypt, but I felt so extremely unwelcome.

I went to the pyramids of Giza and they were truly majestic, but I couldn't walk more than a few steps without being harassed and hustled by the many of the touts trying to sell things or services. They were trying to sell me camel and horse rides, trying to give me a guided tour, trying to sell me worthless crap trinkets, trying to take my phone from me and take pictures of me and then demanding an absurd amount of money.

One guy that I got on top of his camel for pictures asked for money so I gave him $10 and he started yelling and screaming at me asking for $100. I thought he is going to attack me so I just quickly ran away from him.

One guy came up to me to pose in a picture with me and I told him to go away but he wouldn't. He stayed in the picture while my gf was taking the pictures and then he asked for money, I got so extremely mad and I screamed at him at the top of my lungs to go away. All of the other travelers around there heard and were looking and then only did the guy go away.

Then trying to walk around Giza and Cairo, just forget about it. It's virtually impossible. All of the touts coming up to us and asking if we need a ride, or if we can buy their whatever shit trinkets they are selling. We couldn't walk more than literally 60 seconds without someone new coming to harass us.

What is it about this place that makes visitors feel so unwelcome? Why do they do this? There is so much rich history and culture to Egypt that I am sure everyone all around the world would want to visit.

When I came back to the US and all my coworkers asked me how it was, I told them the pyramids and temples were amazing, but the touts were absolutely horrible. I told them not to go, and that I would never go back to Egypt ever again.
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>>2662112
One time at the Pyramids this guy was trying to sell me trinkets, wouldn't go away so I told him I will only buy something made in Egypt. lol everything he had was made in fucking China. Gave me a mean look and walked away as if I was being the asshole.
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I went on a tour. It was fine. I can't imagine not going on a tour though, the fuckers were insufferable but at least my guide was able to tell them to get fucked.
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>>2662112
The way to avoid this (or at least reduce/control it) all the people trying to get their 'share' of your money is to hire a reputable local tour guide in advance. That way you can tell them what you want to experience (camel ride, going inside, type of pics, whatever) and they deal with local negotiations and shoo away the multitude of other people trying to approach you while you're there.

It is more expensive up front, but at least you can spend your time focusing on the pyramids and less time worrying about arguing with subhuman scammers.
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>>2662128
>>2662130
Always this.
They act as a barrier and the most effective way to tell these touts to fuck off.
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>>2662112
>Why do they do this?
Okay. Imagine this. You are born in Egypt. Your family is poor as fuck. Your education sucks. You cannot possibly go to college. You start working in a shop at 15, and make $30 a month. You quit that job and work in small workshop. $60 a month at 18. You give half that to your family, your life still sucks.

You see touts and scammers making twice that. Sometimes they score big off an idiot tourist and are comfortable for a month or two at a time without doing anything except shouting at and cajoling tourists. You decide to try it out. You knew about tourists before, about the countries they came from.

You have a vague idea about how much more money people make there, but then you discover the real difference when you begin interacting with them. These people are dropping your entire year salary for a week long vacation to see pyramids you were told your ancestors built (arab egyptians have nothing to do with the pyramids. Actual ethnic egyptians are quite rare these days, but I digress).

You feel the inequality, the injustice of your peoples great legacy being sold. Why shouldn't you also make some money off of it? If they are coming to egypt they should spread their wealth to egyptians. They are foreigners, they are rich, I am poor, they shouldn't care.

So you go hard. You get in their faces. You scam. You lie. You harass. You follow. You learn how to get paid 1/3rd of your usual monthly salary in a single day by just being a nuisance. You are not the only one who figured this out. Some days you don't make anything, but you don't get beaten by the tourists or run off. There is no downside and no risk at all for your horrible behavior. The only risk comes from other gangs of touts/beggars/scammers. So, you join a gang.

Now your earnings are pooled and your take is based off of your effort and success. You are 'managed'. You are trained to be even more annoying and an even better liar. You become a lying, scamming, harassment-
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>>2662176
-machine. You begin to embody the spirit of the egyptian tourist attraction tout. You're valuable to your gang now. You're making more money doing this than any legitimate economic activity. Why would you stop? Sure you're still dirt poor, retarded, disgusting by 1st world standards, but by egypt standards you're getting by just by abusing and harassing people who are generally considered to be richfags who deserve it.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with your behavior, from your personal viewpoint, or that of the men you have surrounded yourself with. You're an idiot and there is no such thing as civic-mindedness in egypt, and so you are incapable of thinking broadly about the impact you and men like you have on the tourism industry, which you rely upon.

It's just a resource for your to exploit, and exploit it you shall until it dries up. Maybe soon you will start buying fake Egyptian trinkets from china and trying to sell them as authentic to tourists, because you're getting tired of walking around or 'tour guiding' all day.

You're dumb, but even you know that you could be kicking back with a shop and making similar amounts of money.
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tl;dr - the way you feel about them, is the way they feel about you

you do not respect or care about the feelings of the filthy annoying Egyptians harassing you, and they do not care about the feelings of the fat, retarded, annoying tourists tramping all over their country
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Now lets talk about the ultimate payout. The actual reason why the police are around.

You decide you want a big payday, so you're going to attempt to piss off foreign men in their 30's-50's, with females in tow. You run your usual routine, but you ramp it up and follow them and stray too close to their women.

What you are trying to do is coerce them into getting physical. Ideally they just shove you and you don't get hurt, but its enough for other egyptians to see and serve as a witness. Realistically speaking you might get punched and grappled, but nobody is going to kill you. Some bruises are worth the next part.

After harassing a tourist until they physically assault you, you gleefully run to the police and rip some nose hairs out to get the fake tears going, then act severely injured while reporting what happened. The police also gleefully spring into action and take the tourists into custody and ask other people around and confirm the attack.

Now you go to the police station and the police sit down with the tourists and explain to them that for the pain and suffering they inflicted upon you, they must make a public apology and also pay a fine (could be around $500-$2000) that might be your entire year salary. They have no choice, because their passports were confiscated during this process, and they cannot get legal counsel or help from their embassy, since they are being isolated for at least 24 hours, after which time they would actually be allowed to make calls.

This intimidation tactic works. They agree to pay the fine immediately. A police officer escorts them to the bank or teller machine or wire transfer shop, and they turn the cash over. The police return, discharge the tourists with their visa cancelled (they must leave within 24 hours), and give you 50% of the fine. That's the deal, because they are in on it and so are you.

Cash in hand you return to your family (or gang) in triumph.
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>>2662176
>be poor
>see pieces of shit succeed
>become a piece of shit
That doesn't and can't explain why egyptians in particular are the worst type of harassers on earth.

>>2662181
Not caring about doesn't mean I want to actively annoy or shit on the locals. I'm fine doing the exact thing they want us to do, i.e visit their shit and shop in their shops and mind my manners while doing so. I am not looking to maximize my experience to the detriment of others, whereas they are doing this exact thing.

>>2662112
The only actual explanation to this is that the government, like its people, are absolutely and utterly corrupt and that has been an undeniable fact of Egyptian culture since Nasser came into power, and possibly earlier. The bakchich culture is basically the american tipping culture pushed to its natural conclusion : aka blaming all your economic shortcomings onto your fellow man/customer/patron who wouldn't tip enough. Nothing is ever done without money flowing under the table even at the highest levels of the government.
Due this corruption environment and the informal haggle culture permeating the arab world as a whole, everything revolves around money, nobody names a price, everyone wants a piece.

> I gave him $10
If by that you meant you gave him 10 Egyptian pounds, yeah no fucking shit. you gave him two dimes.
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>>2662232
all of these WILL ask for a bakchich.
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>>2662176
>>2662178
There's a reason why Egypt is a shit country and will always be shit.
And you can rationalize all you want about poverty, there are asian countries with the same level of poverty (or had it in the past and overcame it) and they don't behave that way.

tldr; stop the excuses, Egyptians are just scum.
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>>2662112
Instagram tourists and Egyptian scammers are all NPCs in the same boat desu. I can only just imagine how red and flustered you got because you saw how real life works outside of your imperial heartland. Imagine shouting and screaming, kek.

>getting hassled by touts in Cairo
huge skill issue. Everybody's off doing their own thing in Africa's biggest city. If you're bait, it's on you desu

>>2662186
Sounds like generic shit desu. I'd be very curious to see your evidence of Egyptian police holding up tourists for thousands of dollars.


You'd be surprised how much of a good time you can have in Egypt if you're not a total idiot, are respectful, learn a little language, and try to understand your surroundings and culture around you.
People expecting Egypt to be desert Disneyland are far more of an issue, desu.
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>>2662176
>>2662178
High-quality effortpost.
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>>2662237
All SEA countries have their scammers and they all tend to be concentrated around tourist areas.

Don’t tell me you haven’t had a Tuk Tuk driver try to scam you or people constantly try to upsell and overcharge you for unmarked items. Hell in Thailand it’s even official policy to charge foreigners more for national parks.

The difference is there is developed infrastructure to prevent these things and the poverty in SEA isn’t so desperate as to encourage the worst behaviors. Egyptians also uniquely hate Americans due to them (correctly) believing we caused the Arab Springs which ruined their country as well as our support of Israel, who they are constantly at odds with. There is no incentive for them to treat Americans with kindness especially when they believe we caused their misery.

And another point is that once you get to local areas, people will be kind, honest, and sharing anyways. Even the food reviewer dude that probably inspired OPs post admitted this. So rather than condemning an entire people, just recognize the unique situation Egypt is in, get a quality tour guide, and save the /realtraveler/ stuff for other countries.
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>>2662245
>save the /realtraveler/ stuff for other countries.
If you can't /realtravel/ Egypt, what does this actually mean for you? Getting a train in Europe? Sleepng in a hostel? Learning to say thank you in another language? Eating in a '''local restaurant'''?

Objectively, the only thing stopping 'muh real travel' in Egypt is needing police escorts through/to certain places.
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>>2662112
American who's been to Egypt here. While I can relate to how annoying the swarms of trinket salesmen are, I didn't feel they ruined the trip for me. I would simply give them a hard no from the first interaction and ignore them beyond that. They prefer to shift their efforts to people who will engage.

One tactic I found that just confused them was that I purchased a model of a mummy, and when a salesman would approach me, I'd try to sell them the mummy before they could speak to me. It threw a wrench in their gears and would consistently get them to go away.
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>>2662237
>there are asian countries with the same level of poverty (or had it in the past and overcame it) and they don't behave that way.
lol
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>>2662112
Have they got rid of the tourist police? I found them to be very helpful the last time I visited
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>>2662112
i hate organized tours but took one in egypt to avoid all of that. worth every penny, plus it was nice to have someone to explain all the sites.

the touts in cairo are the worst i’ve ever seen, but it does get significantly less awful outside of cairo, like in luxor, abu simbel, karnak, etc.
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>>2662237
yeah you're right, they are just born evil, poverty, corruption, and their culture has nothing to do with it

these incredibly poor people with no chance of improving their lives should just behave and not bother tourists who come to their countries, and accept their lot in life and then die poor and irrelevant
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>>2662112
Listen to this man! I still have nightmares about Egypt!
They were fucking scammers from the offset. They demanded I open my suitcases at the airport, and "confiscated" my vodka for no reason. I then got in a taxi and the meter went up so quickly. At the end, it read like $125. The guy kept speaking to me weirdly, so I just paid it and got out.

The place is like a labyrinth and it's impossible to cross the road anywhere as there's no traffic lights. I sometimes had to get taxis around a couple of blocks, just to get to the other side of the road, which felt like a huge waste of money.

At least the people were friendly though. Many times I got offered to people's houses to cool down, have a cup of tea and hear stories about their lives. They kept offering gifts, which I refused to accept, but after some friendly discussion, I always ended up giving them a bit of cash, as I felt guilty.

I didn't actually go to the pyramids, as I have big health issues. I thought the sand and heat would be a bit too much for me. I did get a kind Uber driver to drive me there though. In the nearby McDonalds, all I could think about was how magestic they looked, and could feel literally thousands of years of history flash before my eyes - like I was a part of something bigger.

After that though, it all went downhill. I spent most days in the hotel with stomach issues, and tried calling 911 to get a doctor, but nobody came to help. It's shitty that they drain the water from the pool in the taps too, as it always tasted like water. I needed to pay a little Arab boy $10 a time just to have a drink.
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>>2662258
>Touts worse in Cairo than Luxor.
kek
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>>2662256
The two times tourist police "helped" me they also hit me up for a handout. Once I asked for directions (in Arabic) and he saying he'd tell me for a few dollars. The other shooed away the camel scammers at the pyramids and just stood their with his hand out sighing while we tried to ignore him.
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>>2662261
You start with a strawman and end with a projection.
I never said it was genetic, a lot of it is probably their scummy culture. But now that you bring genetic to the table, i'll have to remind you of their low average IQ and high consanginity. Inbred retards that is.

...
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>>2662261
Their culture clearly is the problem and I don't think he would disagree about that.
Egyptians have one of those attitudes where they're perfectly happy living in a place that is completely and utterly wrecked so long as they can cosplay as the main character thinking they will strike it big scamming one of the 5 tourists that remain.
If all the street merchants took even one day to work on fixing the sidewalks or building crosswalks, the city would be beautiful overnight. It's not some grand infrastructure project, it's just taking some basic care of your surroundings and making them nice to visit.
Morocco or Tunisia aren't perfect and have plenty of people trying to sell you bullshit, but they don't add the additional insult of doing it 5 feet from a literal trashfire built in a hole in the sidewalk.
I think it's an unspoken trait that decides the success of peoples in bad situations - do you fix the sidewalk so that you can have a piece of a bigger pie, or do you say "it's not my problem" and compete for whatever small part of the pie remains?
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>>2662266
...
Furthermore, good on them for continuing their grift, we will just not go there and they will starve. Their tourism has been destroyed because of their behavior, that's what they deserve.

Their leaders are so aware that their population is shit that they sold parts of the country to the UAE. We will have to wait 15 years to have a proper experience, a proper resort, and then escorts to see the pyramids and come back safely... and the touts will just go back eating camel shit, because they won't see 1 dollar of it.
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>>2662249
Tbh /realtravel/ is dead in most parts of the world except for dangerous areas like Africa and the Amazon.

I prefer vidya for my /realtravel/ needs and just visit back alley eateries and local markets. I understand /trv/ craves adventures but that gets old after a while IMO
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>>2662282
>I prefer vidya for my /realtravel/ needs
This is quite honestly and unironically the most retarded comment I have ever read on /trv/ over about 5 years.
What a fucking turbo goyslop consumer
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>>2662290
Stop being a drama queen
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>>2662266
>You
you said something stupid, so you got nonsense in response
garbage in - garbage out
if you want a higher level of discourse then don't spout ignorance then demand sophistication
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>>2662290
I agree. This thread's full of absolute fucking faggots, lol. Imagine being too filtered to enjoy the absolute kino experiences of Egypt, and coping by saying "b-b-but muh EA goyms do it b-b-better at home!"

I just cannot believe it. It must be trolling.
>writing 2 efforts posts because you can't say "la"
>too scared to say no to randos on the street
>getting taken to the ATM by police
>paying money to get directions
>demand you get a 'reputable guide' to walk around a city
>screaming and shouting in public
>blaming 'th-th-their culture' because you have no empathy or cross-cultural awareness
Fuck me, mate. Covid and goy-tok has really done a number on people.
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>>2662261
Yes
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>>2662254
there are literal dirt poor rural African villagers that would give you the clothes off their back if you were cold
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>>2662263

Please tell more about your travels. This is solid gold.
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>>2662385
Ok, I guess one of the funnest trips I had was in England. I'm a huge fan of English culture.
I've grown up watching how friendly English people are, and from the very first moment I walked through the passport gates at the airport and saw someone on the screen smiling back at me, I knew I'd landed in a warm, welcoming place.

There's something about the trains in England which are special. I think it's knowing you're riding one of the oldest networks in the world. It's nice being able to actually appreciate the countryside outside as you slowly make your way to your destination, appreciating the vibrant music in the carriage, and hearing languages from all over the world. It's no wonder that JK Rowling saw Euston as a gateway to a magic world.

I'm a huge fan of English football, so I tried finding all the football teams on the underground map. Managed to find Premier League giants like Queens Park, Liverpool Street, and Leicester Square. I must've been stood there for about 5 minutes, imagining all the history of all these teams, and all the different routes the fans would take when playing each other.

I didn't get to go to a game unfortunately, but luckily there was so many mini-games to play on the streets. I nearly won the traditional cup and ball challenge in front of a huge crowd, managed to guess when the big bells would start ringing, and scored a 3 pointer with an English penny, for a woman who was holding a basket outside of KFC.

There must've been a match on, because at about 9pm it felt like all the hooligans came out, which worried me, as I was wearing quite a few different colours. I headed to my Airbnb, hosted by a kind local above his fish'n'chip chop. Felt so quaint and cozy, and like I was living in a real authentic place back from the Victorian days.

Would definitely recommend.
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>>2662112
>I went to the pyramids of Giza and they were truly majestic, but I couldn't walk more than a few steps without being harassed and hustled by the many of the touts trying to sell things or services.
This is why you learn about the countries you visit. Egyptian dollar is very, very worthless rn and they see Americans as money machines. Most of the guys swindling you probably have less than half the luxuries you have and are desperate as hell to get even a bit of cash.
They are like this with other arabs too, but more with americans because americans are more likely to be loaded with cash.
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>>2662128
>>2662146
Yeah this is the way to go. Fuck everyone in Egypt but I don't want to let them prevent me from seeing and going inside the pyramids. And it's fun to have the driver in Giza get me out of there with the touts running after our car like a zombie movie.
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>>2662296
>no you
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>>2662112
Honestly, if you're limited for time, you're much better off going to Saqara and Dahshur. You'll actually enjoy yourself and have an amazing day out.

Admire Giza from afar with an overpriced drink in an upmarket place with a view.
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>>2662112
My experience was very similar, the invitation to take a few photos with a camel, and then the demand for $100. My boyfriend flipped out, yelled at the camel owner and the complicit horse-cart driver, and walked a few km back to the entrance in 40C heat. Things got a bit better when we started speaking our 2nd language, and pretending not to understand English. But yeah, I felt bullied the whole time. We took an Uber to the airport, and the driver didn't like me speaking to my bf, he turned the radio up every time I said anything.
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>>2662399

have you been to asia?

>>2662883
>driver didn't like me speaking to my bf,

they don't like gays over there
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>>2662261
without tourism they would be 50x more poor than they already are
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>>2662186
What absolute scum
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>>2662112
>What is it about Egypt that makes visitors feel so unwelcome? Why do they do this?

Decades upon decades of dictatorship, poverty, lack of government care towards the 80m+ population, not much higher education and leaving people to fend for themselves.

It makes the person most damaged by all that to resort to peddling anything to make a buck. Further, when they do eventually procreate, the kids are brought up in this type of culture and they "evolve" from there.

Now, take all that, and make the starting point sometime in the 1940s, and ask yourself why it's so normal for people like them to act this way to people like you.

The pyramids are thousands of years old, majestic as they may be, they aren't putting food in these people and their families' mouths, neither is the government, so you're their only source of income.
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>>2662130
This, we had a local tour guide we hired online and had an amazing experience. They picked us up in a BMW, a driver and female tour guide. She was amazing,fended out panhandlers/beggars, told us what to look out for, background on sites, etc and even included a delicious lunch. It was maybe $60 for the 2 of us for the day (10 yrs ago) and everything was super cheap there, highly recommended a local reputable tour guide. Made it top notch. I think we ended up tipping her and the tour guide $200 each (they didn't even pressure for a tip or anything)
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>>2662130
where's the fun in that?
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>>2662130
This.

I went to Egypt and had a wonderful trip. We had a reputable private guide for the two of us that took care of everything. Did not go to Giza, but loved Luxor and took a cruise upriver to Aswan. Truly the trip of a lifetime.
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>>2662252
>and when a salesman would approach me, I'd try to sell them the mummy before they could speak to me.
kek
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>>2665634
thanks for the unprompted and erratic larp
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>>2662381
>if you were cold
LMAO, fat chance of that happening in the hottest continent on Earth



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