>>204054600
Kill all xitter screencap posters

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its a 3000 year old story-telling tradition anon, probably even older if you include oral records. why are you such a fag? can you think of a better story format? MC starts as a loser and then ends as a loser? wow how original. you should submit that idea to the sundance festival

>>204054600
It's funny because that's every story

>>204054651
I don't understand the problem with this twitterfag at all. You can enjoy traditional story-telling and experimental. Do people want no happy endings anymore?

Why do leftists hate everything good in the world?

>>204054600
Campbell is a hack, you can apply his stages to almost every story. Keep in mind that they don't have to appear in order, he says so in his book.

>>204054600
I do believe that this poster might be joking.

Name three movies where this happens

>>204054600

>Imagine disregarding more than 2000 years of storytelling theory and rules

You are a brute aren´t you anon? One of those apes that like their expectations subverted?

>>204054903
Lord of the Ring 1
Lord of Rings Two
Freddy Got Fingered

>>204054783
Because they're miserable and believe in equality. It's not possible for them to ever be happy so the only way to attain equality is to make everyone else miserable.
Likewise Communists do the same when it comes to equality. It's not possible to make everyone rich, well fed, and happy. So instead to achieve equality they make everyone poor, starving, and miserable.
It's why they should all be gassed.

yeah 2,800 years of storytelling are wrong. this decade is the best decade of storytelling. and men can become women now.

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>>204054600

>>204054965
>Lord of the Ring
>Lord of the Rings
>Lord of the Ring 3

So what exactly is the alternative here
>Character follows a call to adventure
>In the end, they learned nothing
What was the point of it all then?

>>204054600
herbs

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>>204055245
why does it need to have a point?

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Figuring out who the person under your persona is happens to be relateable to everyone who's been an adult for at least a decade. You learn kindness for yourself, to give yourself grace, and in turn you end up being kinder to others. Eventually your kindness becomes content happiness, and your creativeness surges. Your defenses no longer cloud the person you forgot under all those shells. Misery loves company, and that's what that twitterjig wants in a movie, miserable company.

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>>204055245
why does anyone do anything?

>>204055493
Well said, anon.

>>204055000
you're the one shitting your pants over the people in your head, anon.

>>204055514
Pussy.

>>204054600
Tsorurindarodarorosimpachero
Tsorudariodarosorudarosura
guess the songs

>>204054600
This shit is SO fucking botted. How does 64,000 people care about pushing this message that storytelling needs to change?
There's no way. People don't care about such in-the-weeds details like writing methods.

So the answer is that there's one person who DOES care greatly about changing culture like this and they're botting like a motherfucker.

>>204055084
Its way older than that.

>Be Man
>Man notice thing in distance.
>Goes off to see what ti is.
>Encounter hurdles that need to be overcome
>Eventually find the thing.
>Man is now telling you the story of how he noticed a thing in the distance, went and saw what it was, encountered hurdles which had to be overcome but which ultimately resulted in the finding of the thing leading him to tell you the story of how he noticed a thing...

>>204054600
That post screams 'I grew up without a father'

>>204054779
Late millennials and younger can't stand stories of hope and main characters succeeding because these people are mentally ill doomers who don't like to see someone be happy.

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>>204054600
The drinker has destroyed him

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I like adventure stories, but the ultimate maximum blackpill is that people do NOT change who they are deep down. that shit's a cope and a lie, like all romance stories

>>204054779
He's just being an edgy retard. Make him watch Sorcerer or Aniara and he wouldn't be singing the same tune. He thinks that's what he wants but he doesn't.

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>>204054600
I'm sorry, is this some sort of peasant joke I'm too content to understand? Also,
>twitter screencap

>>204054651
>>204054600
>>204054779
>>204054783
OLD BAD

NEW GOOD BUT WILL ALSO BECOME BAD A YEAR FROM NOW

>>204056003
Pretty much true
Who you are is basically set in stone during your early 20s and doesn’t change much over the rest of your life.

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I feel like big movies now push an absurd
>yeah, you went on a great journey
>yeah, you grew as a person
>yeah, you changed the world
>but you're still an incel lol
narrative that's like a violent overreaction to the way older blockbusters used to sometimes literally have a woman come out of nowhere in the third act to fall on the hero's dick because it just seemed unfathomable to boomers to have a dude make some great personal journey WITHOUT getting laid at the end

>>204055245
>I want a character that never changes because they are perfect and doesn't have to do anything just like me

Yeah thats usually what leftists want

Holy fuck the amount of Gen X losers on here lol the heroes journey is a tired formula. It's dead. Buried. It's why those marvel and star wars films you see everywhere are failing, it's why everything you watch on Netflix is failing. People don't want stories that make them "feel good" anymore because that's not the time anymore. This era isn't about feeling good it's about feeling something other than what corporate and DEI propaganda want you to feel. And that's more than some fake ass heroes journey where the good guy overcomes everything without any type of tragedy worth a damn happening to them. But unfortunately, the corrupt Hollywood jews don't want those stories because MUH FEELINGS and MUH BUDGET but there's already been hits that show despair and misery and pain are more essential to film now more than ever than some other random cookie cutter hero bitch or dude overcoming all obstacles to be better!

>>204054903
The Godfather
Star Wars
The Nutty Professor

>>204056153
That crossed my mind when they made Dr. Strange attend his love interest's wedding to a nigger

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>>204054600
rage bait thread

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>>204056003
The heroes journey shouldn't end with them changing their own nature, it should end with the hero reaching a higher understanding of themselves and obtaining the peace of mind we all ultimately pursue

Millennials WANT to break the formula but always end up too scared of being edgy or trying something new. They are the worst writers in film history. They can't come to grips with how conformist they are and take refuge in nostalgia because they have not had any character development irl.

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>>204055245
Yes. There's plenty of movies where the point of the story is just seeing someone do a thing they've already done a million times just so we can marvel at the actions. The John Wick movies for example doesn't result in him learning anything. He doesn't even get better at killing people. He's already the best killing-people guy there is. He doens't make any new friends. He just has to kill to stay alive and the movies are made as an excuse to basically see a kind dance performance but instead of doing ballet they're doing stunts and elaborate mag reloads while clearning rooms.

>>204054600
>cartoon pfp

>>204055992
i understand ranting about slop pays the bills, but i wish he talked more about writing. dude knows his shit about storytelling and he's a pretty decent writer as a result.

>>204054600
>i saw this viral tweet everyone is replying so im gonna post it on /tv/

>>204054600
I liked it in Leon: the Professional, how Leon's new outlook was that he wanted to rape the little girl... not.

>>204054600
if you even pay attention to these kinds of movies you're actually gay probably lmao

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>>204055245
>What was the point of it all then?
People are going to bitch no matter what you do, so focus on making whatever you want to make. Figure out what works, what doesn't, and create.

>>204055493
but people don't always become kinder, happier or more graceful as they get older, quite the opposite. they can become caught in vices, devastated by tragedy or injury, or just become bitter at the grim state of the world

>>204054600
They hate it because they cannot/refuse to do it themselves. They hate the journey because they're too pussy to go on it themselves. Fuckin COPE.

>>204054600
I sent her a dm asking where to meet up so I can kiss her juicy ass. She blocked me. Lying bitch

>>204056497
That would have been realistic though

>>204055000
>It's why they should all be gassed
holy based
nice trips too

>>204055639
>dude marxists dont exist lmao

>>204056565
Then you didn't do the work to grow up. Part of maturity is emotional maturity. Everything you named builds defenses. Bringing those defenses down is a practice and measure of emotional maturity. Remember that though, a practice. You must practice.

>>204056398
John Wick has character progression, it's about a person realizing that they were running away from who they are. If you think John Wick doesn't show character growth (or character regression) then you're a speed watcher. The movie hammers it in constantly, how did you miss it?

>>204055949
Or, perhaps they are tired of not being able to have a quality livelihood for themselves and have to dream about concepts like family, independence and wealth.

>>204057143
Man if only there was a solution to that, like getting a job, and joining a traditional born-again church that provides every believing man with a stable career and a free wife (the massive gender skew in evangelical churches (60-40) means they have an overabundance of single women in their late 20s desperate to have piles of children and become stay-at-home mothers)

>>204057036
>He changes by realizing he can't change.

Wow, amazing.

>>204055245
The leftist mind simply struggles to comprehend someone striving and improving, instead of stagnating in the mire of their own shortcomings.

>>204054600
So you hate experiencing new and enlightening experiences in life?
Haha

>twitter fur artfag
Yeah that gay opinion don't surprise me, I bet they like teen nihilistic rick and morty type trash

>>204054819
This is true.
It is also true that stories are generally more rewarding when the main character learns at least one valuable lesson that affects their life.

>>204057226
>get a job
>its 40+ hours per week
>after bills, you have 200-400 to yourself
>home costs 250k, calculate the years yourself
>less women in churches, most of them aged 50+
>still have to watch 60+ year old boomers wield all the political and economical power
where do you get this stuff

>>204055245
>What was the point of it all then?
faustian spirit

>>204057281
Compare Wick at the beginning of the movie to Wick at the end of the movie
There's a massive shift in character. It's an incredibly common character development trope, the same arc as MGR:R, it's not hard to understand.
The man who strives for peace, having seen a lifetime of violence, who wants to put the past behind him, reawakens the man he once was, a dangerous warrior.
The reason that it's growth, and not a static character, is that we saw a change in Wick as a person. The man we're introduced to is not the man at the end of the film.
People love to see a fall from grace, especially if that person thought that they had been redeemed. It's a stock trope for a reason.

>>204054600
go back nigger

>>204057226
>and joining a traditional born-again church
That is so fucking faggy, you pretend Christfags are so obviously closeted and jerk it to tranny porn.

>>204057448
1. Go to a proper traditional quiverfull church, not one with a female pastor who gives TED talks on tolerance. If you don't see a bunch of kids there go to another until you find the kind of church I'm talking about.
2. Leverage religious connections to advance your career. The prot work ethic leads to most of the men in these churches being entrenched in established companies, and they love to bring in people of the faith.
3. The old have always had all the political power. There are very few exceptions, most of them negative. You have to get a job, get educated, and advance your career. Having a nepotistic in-group is fantastic for this.

>>204057014
i think it's very simplistic and borderline maladaptive to just smile like a retard in response to anything and everything terrible that might befall you in life

>>204057635
I didn't say don't believe in Jesus. Seeing the love of Christ manifested in an organization that betters the lives of everyone involved is pretty good support for his love.
Also, the wife gets you every time. Seeing the immense positivity of a life in Christ is absolutely infectious.

>>204057690
That would be maladaptive, thankfully no one has suggested it.
Have you considered that being bitter, depressed, and caught in vice is just as maladaptive?

>>204057506
>Compare Wick at the beginning of the movie to Wick at the end of the movie
I'm talking abiut the series as a whole. You know they've made three sequels right? You wanna know what happens in them? He gets attacked by some guys and he has to defend himself and find a way out of the situation but has to eventually settle on the fact that he has to murder a bunch of people, so he does. Then he keeps doing that over and over. its not progression or growth. yeah things happens and he as a person experiences these things happening and then keeps existing as a person in the story who has to deal with the fact that things have happened but it doesn't alter him beyond just making him older and having done more things. Yiou going to bed and waking up is also you changing as a person since you're by definition not the same person who went asleep, but this is't the same thing as "character growth". Its the same thing with John Wick except rather than sleep he kills people.

>>204057924
I don't remember the sequels well (they didn't live up to the first), but is there not a further fall from grace? He burns every connection he has, he's cast out from his people, and he ultimately rebels against the transactional system of violence to which he once belonged. Each of those is personal progress, personal change.
Come on anon, each movie has an arc that changes John Wick as a person (possible exception the final film, I remember literally nothing about it). Just because the main reason people watch it is the action doesn't mean there isn't a simple, understandable plot that continues to define Wick as a human being.
Like damn bro it's a simplistic action movie, it's not hard to get. Do you need things spelled out like Renfield in order to understand a character arc?

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>>204057690
That's not what I was saying though. All right, hear me out on this one and really try to take me in good faith here, because I don't really have any other way to explain it and it's sort of different for everyone (I'm not a therapist or psychologist obviously):
Picture every thought you have, all of them, as the munchkins from The Wizard of Oz, but they all have your face and they make whining dog noises when you kick 'em. Every single one of these little bastards wants to be heard. Your good thoughts are Glenda the Good Witch, your bad thoughts are the Wicked Witch, sometimes you're the cowardly lion before and after he got courage, etc. What people call "intrusive thoughts" are typically bad, and people with low awareness will say them out loud, like Michael Scott from The Office or a kid. An aware adult listens to the thoughts, and I mean you can sit there for 15 even 20 minutes really listening and reasoning through a conversation with the thought, and they parse through them. "This is good because [real reasons], this is bad because [real reasons], this is a pretty grey area and *for me* I lean toward [your choice]." When you listen to your thoughts, you practice a form of kindness. You're not shutting away something that could potentially be a part of you, and I say that because your thoughts are -yours- but they're not -you-. So if you're sad, be sad, but be sad for real reasons. Don't just smile. Listen to your thoughts and give yourself grace for parsing through them without judging yourself.

>>204058107

>I tracked down my childhood bed and destroyed it. Though I stopped sleeping in it years ago this action has altered my character since I can now never sleep in my childhood bed again.

>>204058107
>Just because the main reason people watch it is the action doesn't mean there isn't a simple, understandable plot that continues to define Wick as a human being.
I'm not saying there isn't a plot, I'm saying the plot is circular and loops back around and around to have him do the same thing over and over. The growth is just that he kills one person and then kills another person. Yeah you can only kill someone once, no shit. In fact you're mostly agreeing that John Wick goes against the Start-End arc in the OP since he specifically burns bridges and severs old connections and loses his hope for romance if I recall correctly.

>>204054903
CONAN

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I'm a sucker for a happy ending ngl

>>204058518
He accepts responsability at the end and sacrifices himself at the end so that other may live (and so he can kill that one guy)

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>>204056003
It's amazing how hard the hero's journey filters you. I blame the school system.

>>204054783
Because everything good in the world is competition to their ideal utopia.

>>204056677
>her
That's a woman?

>>204058549
Nice theme, cute ending.

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>>204054600
but Treasure Planet is kino of the highest order

>>204055245
One must imagine Sisyphus happy,

>>204058679
You just know that guy is an NCO in the air force

>>204056003
this is very true for low iq individuals. high iq individuals are more adept at growing and changing.

>>204057143
Get a job. Go on dates. Like honest to god, you absolutely know people that are self employed with families living well. Dont pretend like its some impossibility stolen from you by society while you jack it to tranny porn 6 hours a day.

>>204055245
I mean, you have wish fulfillment stories where the main character starts the story as a perfect human and just rides their way to victory while learning nothing because they didn't need to.

You have stories where the main character suffers and thrashes but accomplishes nothing and ends miserably.

You have stories that dont really have a character, its more just a concept.

Shit like that.

>>204056565
I wonder what stage of growth you are thinking in your head. Disillusionment is part of growing up, not being grown up.

This is the first stage of an NPC having a moment of reflection, the final stage is that the heroes journey is weaved into the fabric of reality and reflect platonic forms. Then you find Christ. I hope no zoomer actually takes his bait.

>>204056565
yes they are called losers. "many are called, few are chosen" it is possible to fail in your incarnation. but the higher journey is laid out for us to choose. Watch jordan peterson videos.

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What's the issue here? Safe rehashes will always be there for you, specially "le trad everything good in the world", while we also encourage experimenting.

People are allowed to dislike tradition and crave something else. You favorite gente right now it's probably the invention of somebody that craved new things. Some anons here really brainrot themselves watching what they liked as kids and nothing else

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>>204060282

It's the believer>atheist>knower religious IQ bell curve meme all over again.

>believe in a God bc you were told to

>become an atheist bc you tried to reason things with science

>believe in God again because thanks to science being an ever expanding tool, you ended up reasoning things to justify the existence of a God

Life is about being a dumdum, learning shit, and then resuming your dumdum life that is now easier because you know shit

>>204054783
Because they literally have an inverted system of morals.
"Good is Evil, Evil is Good"

>>204058732
It's a man.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhIWU6yh-RQ

>>204054600
>if you like the hero's journey you can kiss my ass
What's the issue with this?

>>204061557

Even if the concept "reasoning things to justify the existence of a God" makes you feel unsure about the stability of your own made up ideology, just remember that every person in this planet, rich, por, enslaved, free, does whatever they want with what they were HANDLED

Sure you can imagine something else besides whatever your parents put un front of you but if you were not strong enough to leave and accepted the current statue of things, it's fair to asume you and everyone in this planet CHOOSE what to do with their lives. Of couse you didn't choose your enslaved asian farmer in the 1700s life but still, that farmer is responsible of itself the moment he learns he can fight or fly

>>204054624

Eff pee bee pee.
Nigga sagerou got disabled by M00t over a decade ago what are you doing

>>204061557
You redditspacers all think that the existence of some meme image supports whatever your schizo belief of the day is.

>>204057448
Back to your home country ESL

Is the root-issue here that Leftists are offended by and thusly reject the concepts of self-improvement, self-actualization & independence?
Is the root-issue here the same one that causes Leftists to demonize people who talk about "Self-Help" on the Internet as "grifters" or even unironically as "racists" & "sexists"?

Is their problem with the Hero's Journey that the "Hero" chooses of his own volition to undertake a journey, succeeds through his own strengths and profits from it in some way by the end of the narrative? Would they have no problem with it if the task, means of achieving things & end-result profit were, instead, all doled-out to the protagonist by the Almighty Government?

>>204054600
>t. Rian Johnson ghost account

>>204060377
>Watch jordan peterson videos.
no

>>204054600
>I can't stand when things happen in movies

>>204056215
Agreed and more blacks, gays, and trannies. Actually, I don’t agree I didn’t read your blog.

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>>204054600
>Character living with friends and romance during war longs for peace, and a simpler life.
>Completes their journey with their outlook on life (suspicion that the Jedi are holding him back and ruining his life) not changed or discovered, but solidified, with no friends and the love of his life dead. Doesn't even have his sword by the end of it.

ROTS and the Prequels win again.

>>204054600
they're right
>character wants to go on adventure
>for some reason can't
>until the plot starts
this sucks and is boring.
i want a reluctant hero who discovers they're pretty good at hero-ing or that there's a good reason to continue hero-ing.

>>204063858
>i want a reluctant hero who discovers they're pretty good at hero-ing
Lots of movies like that as well

I feel like it’s a joke. It’s a joke right?

>>204054600
weird thing to get mad over

>>204056398
jesus christ this slop sucks

>>204058679
>cutting out the part where he cuts his hand

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>>204055000
>>204054783

>>204055992
go away now

>>204062058
no it didn't you retard, l2sage

>>204054651
It's literally not. Do you people just pretend to know anything about European myths? Why are you saying this?
Literally all Greek heroes started as heroes. They never started as losers. They sometimes ended us losers. We are talking about people who were sons of gods and were exceptional from the very start. Ancient people did not believe in this whole from zero to hero Hollywoodish nonsense. They believed in the superiority of noble blood which is why all the heroes had such noble blood.

>>204054903
The Devil In Miss Jones
The Last Starfighter
Thrashin'

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>>204055245
>character hears call for adventure
>answers
>is destroyed
>learns it's best just to stay home and be happy with what you have

>>204055992
Ask him to review se7en.

>>204054903
Baseketball
In The Army Now
American Beauty

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>>204055992
Two gays don't make a right anon.

>>204058679
He won me over at the end.

>new thread gets a lot of replies
>people start reposting them

why? there are no upvotes to collect you just read the same opinions again and again

>>204054600
Yeah, I actually agree with him/her. It's shitty storytelling for kids. Gangster flicks also use it but the ending usually isn't pretty for the 'hero'.

>>204061557
This

>>204065012
>why?
Autism. Duh?

>>204054600
>SeaPea

>>204055245
>>In the end, they learned nothing
Now you can make sequels by just reusing the script.

Can't think of any good movies that do this. I guess this so-called call to adventure is vague enough to be applied to a lot of movies, but the second part which implies just a very simple happy ending usually is a cliche of the cheaper kind of fiction.

>>204054651
"The story goes that the dragon originally extorted tribute from villagers. When they ran out of livestock and trinkets for the dragon, they started giving up a human tribute once a year. This was acceptable to the villagers until a princess was chosen as the next offering. The saint thereupon rescues the princess and kills the dragon."

>>204054600
Taxi Driver and The Nightcrawler are pretty much what the twitter faggot complains about. My 2 fav movies btw. Great heros journey movies

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>>204054600
It's another episode of 'Leftoid seething because its subversive nihilistic pieces of shit get cancelled left and right' and I fucking love to see it.

>>204055245
Attack on Titan

>>204054600
But this is literally the only good narrative arc

>>204065461
Those are subversions of this trope. Same as The Godfather, Citizen Kane and so on.

>>204055639
>basic definition of a communist
>YUO ARE SHITTING OF YOURSELF REEEEEE

>>204055245
Noir movies often end with the character realizing that answering this call was a mistake.

>>204054600
>i hate the hero's journey
Everyone who thinks like this is an attention seeking faggot

>>204056215
>It's why those marvel and star wars films you see everywhere are failing

They are failing because they abandoned heroes journey.

>>204065539
It's literally not a thing. Idea made up by moronic sociologists and psychologists who never properly studied mythology and folklore.
Naturally the dumb public ate it up.

>>204056398

Hotline Miami 3 looking good

>>204065625
Here comes the emasculated narcissistic attention seething redditor.

>>204054651
How about a story where a white man recognizes he’s privileged, chops his cock off with a meat cleaver, eats it, and as he’s dying from blood loss he hallucinates and goes on a wild psychedelic LGBTQIA+ adventure which culminates with him being in intensive care and a fat black woman doctor comes in with a comical mallet and says “awww shit white boy, only one cure fo yo cracka ass” and she puts on 3D glasses to signal to the audience to put their’s on, then she crushes the white guys head and brain and skull fly all over the audience in 3D. Then the end credits are the all black staff in the ICU twerking over his headless body while Hitler’s speeches play instead of an end credits soundtrack.

>>204054779
>Do people want no happy endings anymore
Literally yes. A lot of people are mouthbreathers and demand "gritty, dark" endings without exception
Last Night in Soho received a lot of criticism for having an ending that wasn't predictably dogshit

I think A24 and Garth Ennis have just fucking ruined people's brains. Especially in the context of any dark or horror themed film

>>204065625
>>204065539
0 self awareness

>>204065625
I've never seen someone argue that an existing writing device doesn't exist. This should be a good thread

>>204065706
Dark endings have been a thing since ancient Greeks. More, the very first narrative work (Epic of Gilgamesh) has a bad ending.

>>204065794
I didn't say Garth Ennis invented dark endings. He, and others, made it into a trend and now people demand it
If you don't have a story where man is forced to watch his wife and daughter get raped to death by serial killer cannibals then it's not gritty enough (yes, Garth wrote that trash and tried to make it "funny" as well)

>>204065625
>It's literally not a thing.
The consistent patterns and structures observable in Global Mythology & Storytelling that were highlighted not just by Joseph Campbell but many, many other Sociologists, Archeologists & Folklorists before him most certainly aren't "made up", retard. You can argue other things like its irrelevancy to modern Storytelling or shit like that as a matter of opinion but those consistent and often repeated patterns and structures demonstrated in Comparative Mythology are 100% a real and observable thing.

You're either "trolling" by arguing a point that you KNOW is illogical & indefensible to farm (You)'s, or you are genuinely an example of an undereducated, uninformed brainlet who is so ignorant that they not only lack knowledge on the topic they are talking about but lack enough of it so as to not be able to realize that they're ignorant on that subject in the first place.

>>204056398
Yeah and those are a perfect example of shit films with absolutely no soul and nothing to enjoy except fight choreography.

>>204065974
>sociologists
Yes.
>Archeologists & Folklorists
Nope.

Lots of vague crap, zero actual evidence. Comparative mythology usually imply contacts between different groups, not a myth that was common to humanity as a whole. Again, this whole thing only works if you deliberately ignore myths that don't fit your narrative or come up with extremely vague crap like 'hero's journey'.

>>204066149
That really cool and all, but your woke shit will keep flopping and seething about it on 4chan won't change that.

>>204066386
This woke shit follows your meme hero's journey shit.

>>204064585
>Guys who were heroes were heroes
Such deep insight

>>204066731
The point is that 'character starting as a loser' isn't some ancient trope, it's a very recent thing. Indeed, a very Hollywoodish, Jewish thing.

>>204054651
Thought this was Spawn.

>>204066723
>akhsually
Lmao. Take it to reddit.

>>204066856
>becoming hero is muh jewish invention

Shouldn't you be somewhere else donating to Cumtown?

>>204066856
no, they might start the story as a virtuous man, but oedipus didn’t start life as king of thebes, he was virtuous because he was an accomplished man

>>204067099
>In the best-known version of the myth, Oedipus was born to King Laius and Queen Jocasta of Thebes.
Just go eat shit retard.

>>204067161
>just argue in bad faith to waste time and 404 the thread
Fuck off glowie/kike. The fact you animals are opposed to something only proves it's true and good and right.

>>204061557
>believe in God again because thanks to science being an ever expanding tool, you ended up reasoning things to justify the existence of a God
There's no way to reason yourself into becoming religious. Believe me, I've tried.

>oh my god I just realised that some movies follow the same formula!
>I need to show people how smart I am by drawing attention to this.. but how..?
>I GOT IT
"IF YOU LIKE THIS, YOU'RE DUMB!!"

>>204062280
They don't actually want new things, they want old comfy things but with their own shitty ideals thrown in to make it even more comfy for themselves because they are perpetual children. See the last jedi and nu trek as an example.

>>204056398
>1:05
why the fuck were they shooting that high up the wall?

>>204064714
That's just anti-war movies

>>204055245
>characters actions become more and more heinous to the point he's a shadow of his former self and although he wins, his sidekick is fucking terrified of him and almost kills him
what do you call that arc?

>>204066731
>>204066856
>>204067087
>>204067099
Hero is just another word for demi-god, for one to be demi-god must have a parent that is a god.

Oedipus had divine blood, so again, the whole zero from hero doesn't happens.

Even Jesus Christ if we see him from an Hellenic perspective is a DEMI-GOD and the Trinitarian perspective goes further saying he IS THE GOD.

Ofc through History there are stories of people from "zero to hero", but the thing is those people suffered enormously, while the Hollywood stories just tell kids that is you act nice you become the hero because "peace world", "power of friendship" or some other hippie BS.

>>204054600
Same, why the fuck doesn't more people just love peace?, I would kill to have some in my life, you can learn something witnout having the main character be a bitch about how they're doing better than the vast majority of people, it makes me believe that most people are too selfish and doesn't appreciate a single thing in life
>>204063235
I never watched star wars but by the sound of it I wish more films have characters like this

>>204062058
>spoiler
hah, no it isn't

>>204054903
The Hobbit.
Star Wars
Matrix

>>204054783
They are spiteful mutants
Dutton explains it well

>>204054624
Don’t deadname X chud

>>204054600
congrats on being on the same level as an autistic twitter tranny

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>>204065356
>Can't think of any good movies that do this.
You can't identify the hero's journey when you're watching a movie than depicts it or is it that don't watch adventure movies at all so you haven't come across it?

>>204054903
Lord of the rings 1
Lord of the rings 2
Lord of the rings 3

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>>204054600
>western writers now seething about hero's journey
Grim. Everything must be subverted and deconstructed for modern audiences huh?

>>204056393
name 3 millennial screenwriters.

>>204066149
>Comparative mythology usually imply contacts between different groups, not a myth that was common to humanity as a whole.
Why do you faggots just lie?
The whole point of the Monomyth was that it didn't NEED cultures to have interacted for the common threads & patterns in Mythology to remain, because the idea was that the Monomyth was rooted in Human Social-Psychology itself, i.e. something universal and independent of individual cultures and eras.

>>204066856

"Some are born great; some achieve greatness; and others have greatness thrust upon them."

Can you fuck off now?

>>204054903
Transformers
Transformers: Dark of the Moon
Transformers: Age of Extinction

You can like movies that follow that arch and you can also enjoy movies that don't.

>we need to tear down everything about the existing order, it's All TERRIBLE
>what's your alternative?
>idk we'll figure it out
We didn't figure it out and now we live in hell world because everything we love has been irreperably torn down

>>204064585
>What is the Epic of Gilgamesh
Stop spouting idiocy for five minutes, please, the hero's journey is older than written text.

>>204054600
I share a board with animals

>>204054651
It is not that old.
Campbell basically had no real examples of the cycle other than maybe, Odysseus.
The Hero's Journey is a modern construct that is not seen in ancient literature. Hell, it is heavily reliant on modern concepts of hero that are totally Protestant Christian in nature.

>>204071389
Holy fuck proddies invented Hero's Journey LMAO

>>204071333
You mean the guy that starts the story as the most powerful man in his lands who is a brutal tyrant because he is a man-child with no limitations on his behavior?
Not a rags-to-riches story at all. Gilgamesh was born great and starts the story a legend.

>>204054779
communists don't.

>>204055949
This but it goes further than that. They don't want to admit they have any agency over their lives

>>204054600
>I can't stand the classic hero's journey

>>204071419
The conception of a hero as a laymen who achieves enlightenment through faith and labor, who then rejects all mortal riches to return to a simple life of moral devotion and austerity is extremely Protestant Christian.

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>>204066887
>I've got nothing on my mind but capeshit all the time

>>204071460
Just shut the fuck up you mutt retard.

>>204054651
Please name a 3000 year old story featuring the hero's journey.

>>204071470
Read some of the stories you are trying to characterize.
Give me some examples of actual ancient stories that involve the Hero's Journey Pattern, that aren't post-Protestantism and aren't less than a couple hundred years old.
You aren't going to find more than a smattering of 'kinda fits' type examples.

>>204071501
Why is this proddy nigger wewuzing Tolkien - a Catholic?

>>204064585
This largely depends. For stuff that had books and would largely only be read by the elites like the common mythology of the time then what you are saying is true, virtually every single main character was a god, demi-god, or had noble blood of some sort. However fairy tales and folklore that were passed down by oral tradition like Aesop's Fables or Robin Hood, which would be passed down by commoners definitely had tons of stories about common men who became heroes.

>>204071460
>through faith and labor
What happened to sola fide, proddie?

>>204057673
This some jew talk.

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>>204055245
Why does the protagonist have to start as a nobody?
Why do they have to be antagonized to do something? Why cant' they drive the conflict themselves?
Why do they have to learn a specific moral lesson? Aren't their deeds interesting enough?
Why do they have to leave behind their glory and return to a simpler life? Why not take the reins of power?

>>204054600
This seems like a joke. If it’s not a joke, it can easily be seen as one.

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>>204071389
Holy shit you're retarded LOL

>>204071559
Protestant Work Ethic

>>204054783
I mean it's not about hate, at least not for me, but about trying something new and experimenting.

>>204071555
Most common heroes tended to have fairly short and unstructured stories, to be fair.
Like they didn't have the grand narrative the Hero's Journey has.
Robin Hood might be closer to a modern hero than others from his time, but there isn't really a Hero's Journey cycle to his original stories, in so far as they existed. He was mostly a guy that just did things in various short stories.
And the local heroes, the types that tricked the devil in a test of skill and are the reason that the local bridge creaks loudly in the winter because of all the demons locked inside, you know the type, tended to have basically no structure to their stories at all in the oldest forms.

>>204071541
Tolkien came from a protestant society, as well, that type of ending only applies really to Samwise.
Frodo doesn't have a proper return, for example. He spends the entire time after returning to the Shire dying painfully until he goes to pseudo-metaphorical Heaven. It isn't a Hero's Journey of any standard form.
Neither do most of the other main characters have something like a Hero's Journey cycle. Other than the call to action portion.

>>204071389
>The Hero's Journey is a modern construct that is not seen in ancient literature.
It's not they called it that. It's stories that share similar elements to them because they resonate with ancient cultures:
-A person living a normal life or there's something already special about them
-Something pushes them to venture away from their home
-They meet characters along their journey who aid them or provide conflict
-They face a great challenge and overcome it

>>204055084
What is your favorite hero's journey story from 800BC?

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>>204071501
You keep referring to Campbell on the subject when he's been called out on it all through his career. He cherrypicked data to create his own version of the monomyth. If you want to argue that nothing like his take on matter precedes his own writing then yeah but if you want to argue that it's not there in the way that folklore historians have followed the pattern then you're wrong
>Campbell could construct a monomyth of the hero only by citing those stories that fit his preconceived mold, and leaving out equally valid stories... which did not fit the pattern

>>204069302
>I never watched star wars but by the sound of it I wish more films have characters like this
Its not as bad as they say on paper, I think dialogues are cheesy and execution wasn't great, hence why it stemed so many memes.

>>204057226
>and joining a traditional born-again church that provides every believing man with a stable career and a free wife
This is literally only the case for Mormons, feel free to go out of your way to put up with those psychos.

>>204065974
>>204071214
The monomyth doesn't exist.
Give me an ancient example of it existing.
It is all Jungian zero-material evidence, bullshit.
This is the type of stuff that inspires people to say any time a guy fights a snake, it is muh chaoskampf.

>>204063235
Anakin isn't a Hero's Journey. He's a classic Greek Tragic figure who is the very source of all the problems he is trying to fix. Him wanting to save Padme is the very thing that leads to her death in his attempt to defy destiny. It's why Yoda tells him to not worry about it because the future cannot be changed but to rather embrace her joining the Force. Trying to change destiny only led him to even more of the suffering he wanted to end.

>>204071826
Describe to me the non-Campbellian Hero's Journey first, before I make a longer reply.
If you have a diagram or chart for the specific event cycle you consider the Hero's Journey, that would be ideal.
I want to be addressing the exact same material as you are so we can talk properly.

Jews hate the truth and are compelled to mock nature

>>204071908
What's your point?

>>204071598
why not? why do you care about subversion?

>>204068084
/thread
twitter users are narcissist losers holy shit

>>204071801
How many started from a normal life?
When I think back to viking sagas, like the Volsung family saga, there's no call from obscurity. These guys all started as great warriors from a powerful bloodline before going on adventures and drama. Some were handpicked from childhood by the Gods (not necessarily a good thing).
When I think of the Iliad, there's a call to arms, but most of the men involved are already legendary heroes. Odysseus is already a legendary genius. Achilles is already the greatest warrior in the world. Agamemnon is already the greatest king. Hector is already the most honorable man. Priam is already the wisest king.
Gilgamesh starts his story as an unbeatable warrior and powerful demigod, who's flaw is that he's spoiled beyond belief. He even goes out of his way to instigate conflicts rather than being drawn into them, like deciding one day to go out and kill Humbaba because it sounded glorious.

If your concept is reducible to, "characters go somewhere on an adventure and then do some crazy stuff over there", I don't think you have a narrative structure more deep than, "humans like traveling".

twitter users should be put in concentration camps and tortured with blowtorches

>>204072047
Am I subverting anything?
Why is my subversion bad, if it exists?
Justify why the conventional tenets are better than what I asked.

Why is it better for a protagonist to be obscure?
Why is it better for a protagonist to be reactive to an external conflict?
Why does the protagonist have to engage in a moral cycle to learn truth? Why can't they be correct from the start?
Why do they have to return to normalcy?
You have to assert the value of the original before complaining about 'subversions' of it.

>>204072047
None of those are 'subversive' aspects of story telling.

>>204054651
This. "Call to adventure" could be anything big or small, but without a character leaving their peaceful state, there cannot be conflict, which is necessary for any story.

>LOTR: Frodo agrees to help getthe Ring to Mordor, must overcome deadly terrain, orcs, and other foes to do so

>SUPERBAD: Instead of chilling out playing videogames and jacking around like they usually do (state of peace) Jonah Hill and Michael Cera answer the call to obtain alcohol for their high school crushes and must overcome their underage status, the police, and other obstacles to do so

No matter how big or small your story is, if the main characters don't "answer the call" to enter into conflict then you have a story where you just have characters interacting, like in CLERKS. This can be amusing and comical, but it's CONFLICT that makes a story compelling. Bruce Wayne crying in his mansion while Alfred makes him hot coco and fluffs his pillows is boring, Bruce Wayne becoming Batman and entering into conflict with The Joker or other villains is interesting.

>>204072084
The heroes journey does not require or even suggest the hero is a nobody.

>>204055241
What will they call the next one? 4ord of the Ring?

>>204071985
He's not an example of a hero's journey but another classical literature character type
>>204072084
I said normal or special

>>204072584
Okay, but how does that relate to the fact that Anakin's experience in ROTS goes against OP's image?

>>204072683
I was explaining what character type he was. His story is a tragedy so it wouldn't follow that character type.

>>204072717
Yeah, but that means the person in OP's image should love ROTS then, right?

>>204071801
List ten.

>>204072913
I think it's a badly made movie and terrible story so I don't know.

>>204072349
The call to action connotes someone who wasn't part of a conflict being brought into it.
Not just some guy who is already an action star, hearing about some other stuff to get involved in, or getting involved in some other stuff of his own desire.

>>204072584
If they can (1) be normal or special.
(2) Can join of their own accord or be called to join by external influence.
(3) Can end as a great man or retire to obscurity.
Then we don't have a cycle structure. We have a trope that people like travelogue stories.

>>204055992
>pointless journey
People learn with failure and suffering. Ironically, he sounds nihilistic.
>>204056445
>pretty decent writter
And yet nobody buys his books.

>>204054651
its almost like communists hate it when individuals succeed and grow without them

>>204072984
But the twitter dude doesn't want the character to learn from their failure and suffering.

>>204072933
I'm too much of a midwit to list ten, but even I can think of a handful of famous ones like Jason, Aeneias, David, Heracles, Theseus etc whose stories easily fit the hero's journey pattern.

>>204055245
>wicked protag is forced into a hopeless situation
>willingly embarks on an aimless quest of revenge
>in the end, learns nothing, and remains a degenerate monster
Old boy is one of my favorite movies of all time.

>>204072084
yeah, "Average Joe" protagonists seems to be a feature found in modern storytelling. The movie Fargo comes to mind. Nobody is "the chosen one", nobody is special or "extraordinary" in any way-- Fargo is a comedy/tragedy about an average idiot who hatches a stupid plan for quick money and finds himself in deeper and deeper shit as the plan goes increasingly wrong. Shakespearean in a way. I can't think of any "ancient myths" That focus on average protagonists.

>>204055992
this but unironically

>>204073099
Most of these charaters had pathetic deaths.

>>204073302
a hero's journey isn't always a happily ever after story, not sure what you are trying to say.

>>204054783
This is a joke and ragebait. I'm not even going to entertain the possibility that it's serious. Not even leftists actually hate the basic hero's journey storyline. You're all autists.

>>204055992
This is such a retarded take. He should try reading some ancient Greek stories

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>>204062280
This also happens to incels and blackpill losers.
Both can go to hell.
I choose to fight.

Let me guess your favorite anime are attack on titan and my hero academia

>>204073457
Maybe you should be the one doing that. Some ancient greek stories might be bleak and have a tragic ending, but they most certainly aren't nihilistic and pointless. They all have a point to get across and they are far from nihilistic.

>>204054903
1984
Brazil
A Clockwork Orange

>>204072939
And? Not being involved in a conflict doesn't mean you're a nobody. Neo wasn't a nobody, Harry Potter wasn't a nobody.
>Not just some guy who is already an action star, hearing about some other stuff to get involved in, or getting involved in some other stuff of his own desire
Yes, it means exactly that. Theseus and Odysseus are both directly cited as examples by Campbell and both were established heroes before answering new calls to action. Your argument suggests that hero journey's can't exist in sequels because the character has already gone on one adventure previous.

>>204055992
The drinker has no ability to detect bait

>>204071807
oh the classic of Horus, read it up its interesting how the son has to defeat sett after sett killed his father.

>>204073518
They're not heroes journey either. Thinking the stories that don't have zero to hero trope is "nihilistic and pointless" is extremely retarded

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>>204054903
Problem Child 2

>character does something in movie
>hate it
>character stares at wall for two hours
>this is art. I love it.

>>204073573
>bait is standardised leftie talking point that currently ruins cinema

Drinker won.

>>204073584
But if someone hates the hero's journey because it's a trope where the hero grows through hardship and learns a valuable lesson, then they likely also hate all other stories that teach values and morals for the same reason.

>>204055245
Even if they learn nothing, at least the journey was entertaining. But you're right, it's more satisfying when the protagonist comes out of the dragons lair reborn. The ending of True Detective season 1 only works because of the catharsis Rust and Marty both undergo after they almost died fighting against a very dark evil.

>>204071807
The Odyssey. Achilles is a close second.

>>204054600
Its literally just bait. Are you people tbat retarded?

>>204055811
You'd be surprised who jaded and braindead most zoomers are, and there are lots of aspiring writers who think they can write compelling material without utilizing key components needed to make a story compelling. Like an aspiring chef who thinks they're so genius they can make a nice spicy meal without using any spices, because "spices are so cliche". There are LOTS of retards like this out there.

>>204054600
Why was he stabbed in the end? Why is he happy about it?

>>204073759
Achilles has no hero's journey though.

>>204055887
Truth. And the whole tribe would roll their eyes and tell the guy to fuck off of his story was
>Me see something in distance
>Me walk distance.
>Long boring walk, no hurdles
>Me get to thing in distance
>It just boring old rock
>Me learn nothing

>>204073827
1. The Ordinary World

Achilles is in the realm of the Greeks, a famous warrior already renowned for his strength and near invincibility. His life is defined by warfare, honor, and loyalty to his comrades.

2. The Call to Adventure

Achilles is called to join the Greeks in the Trojan War. His mother, Thetis, foretells that if he joins the war, he will achieve eternal glory but will die young. Despite this, he chooses to fight.

3. Refusal of the Call

Initially, Achilles does not refuse to fight in the war, but later, during the conflict, he withdraws from the battle due to a personal affront by Agamemnon, the Greek leader. This can be seen as a symbolic refusal of the warrior’s duty.

4. Meeting the Mentor

Achilles is guided by various figures throughout the story, including his mother, Thetis, who advises him about his destiny and potential immortality. His closest companion, Patroclus, also serves as an emotional anchor and motivator.

5. Crossing the Threshold

Achilles crosses the threshold by committing to the war against Troy, accepting that his fate is tied to this conflict and the path of a warrior.

6. Tests, Allies, and Enemies

Achilles faces various tests throughout the war, particularly his relationships with other Greek heroes like Agamemnon (an enemy and rival) and Patroclus (his closest ally). He must also deal with the Trojans, especially Hector, his ultimate adversary.

7. Approach to the Inmost Cave

The emotional and psychological journey of Achilles intensifies when Patroclus, wearing Achilles’ armor, is killed by Hector. Achilles faces deep grief, anger, and a desire for vengeance.

8. The Ordeal

The pivotal ordeal for Achilles is his battle with Hector, whom he kills in revenge for Patroclus’ death. This battle is not just physical but also an emotional ordeal, as it leads Achilles deeper into rage and savagery.

9. Reward (Seizing the Sword)

After killing Hector, Achilles drags his body in a show of defiance and revenge, demonstrating his dominance and power. He seizes victory, but at the cost of his humanity and honor.

10. The Road Back

Achilles begins to experience remorse for his actions, particularly when King Priam, Hector’s father, begs him for the return of his son’s body. This encounter starts Achilles’ journey back toward compassion and honor.

11. The Resurrection

The moment of resurrection for Achilles is his emotional reconciliation with Priam. He returns Hector’s body, showing a renewed sense of empathy and realizing that his anger and pride have isolated him from true heroism.

12. Return with the Elixir

Achilles’ return with the elixir can be seen in his restored humanity and the understanding that even great warriors are bound by mortality and honor. His journey, however, does not end with physical survival, but with the immortality of his name and the legacy he leaves behind as a complex hero.

>>204056003
Do you ever look back at shit you once believed, said, wrote, or did and cringe? If you do, congratulations-- You've changed as a person. This is what most people experience when they look back at their younger selves. If you look back at who you were 10, 15, 20 years ago and think "hell yeah man, fuckin based", you're either kidding yourself or you lack the ability for normal personal growth.

>>204056206
You're spot on. As Hollywood has continued to go full left-tard, I've noticed that trope popping up more and more in stories.
>"And then the protagonist realized that they were right all along and it was everyone else who needed to grow up"

>>204073901
>>204073921
you could write this about pretty much every character in the Iliad too though. Diomedes, Aiax, Hector, Agamemnon, fucking Paris' story would sound like a hero's journey if you wanted to make it fit.

>>204074052
>>"And then the protagonist realized that they were right all along and it was everyone else who needed to grow up"
The best kind of ending.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdTz5E5HmAA&ab_channel=flisko

>>204072984
>People learn with failure and suffering. Ironically, he sounds nihilistic.
The one in >>204054600 doesn't exclude hardships and suffering. The difference is whether that will amount to something or just be suffering for the sake of suffering.

>>204055245
I like architect stories. About a guy that starts with wants (which are not misery wants, they're not them trying to right wrongs or survive, he just wants things to be as he wants them), has resources and uses his resources to gain what he wants.

>>204074062
I was asked which journey I liked.
>you could write this about pretty much every character in the Iliad too though.
Now you're getting it. Classics have well defined character arcs/journeys. That's why they are still talked about 2,800 years later and The Acolyte is already canceled and forgtten.

>>204064585
greek heroes may have had the blood, but socially most were outcasted by society into a life of shit until they had to rise up for themselves (see jason and perseus)

>>204070481
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Spiteful_mutant_hypothesis
lol

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>>204073549
Harry Potter and Neo both start as nobodies. Neither knows anything about the magical world they are going to enter. They might be secretly special, but neither is an action star or choosing to become involved with the conflict on their own.
The Hero's Journey is a character arc for a person in modern media. It cannot be rerun over and over again in conventional writing. It is a means of charting a character's emotional and moral self-discovery.

Odysseus is not a good example of the Hero's Journey as Campbell wants it to be.
The big thing is that Odysseus is already a developed an mature character before ever getting involved in the Iliad cycle.
He isn't mentored, either, he may be led astray by Circe, but Odysseus is constantly a master of his world throughout the journies he goes on. He is a master in the Iliad as a tactician, he is a master in the Odyssee as a schemer.
And his meeting with Achilles isn't atonement or a meeting of a Father. Odysseus hardly even liked Achilles at all.

The problem is that the structure is all wrong even for Campbell's own examples.

>>204074376
The problem is that you're treating the hero's journey like some sort of autistic precision measurement when it's just a general outline for a certain sort of story.

>>204073901
This is nothing more than a story about someone traveling to another place.

Achilles already has a set identity, and his main struggle is not in battle, he is basically unbeatable, but internally.
The war is basically a backdrop for him and his real care for the Trojan War is only in terms of personal glory and wealth to be gained.
Characters he relates to like Thetis or Patroclus aren't mentors. The closest he has to a mentor is Priam, who met him for a single conversation when Achilles already was deep into the war. Not the prototypical mentor that Campbell references.
Finally, Achilles doesn't have a return to the normal world at all.
He dies in the middle of the conflict with his cycle left incomplete.

>>204054651
>its a 3000 year old story-telling tradition anon
Name one.

Hard mode: No Odyseus.

>>204054600
it's boring and extremely regurgitated, and often very poorly written.

>>204074469
It is a pretty specific outline.
And if you remove the specifics, all you have is a story about someone that goes somewhere to do something with all the details of that being mutable to the point of being undefined.

>>204054600
All twitterniggers deserve to be killed.

>>204054651
It's a storytelling tradition that is older than 5,000 years old if you include oral storytelling. This storytelling tradition has stood the test of time because it resonates with actual humans around the world.

>>204072104
Based, I wholeheartedly agree with you.

>>204074477
Nitpicking misses the point. The hero's journey isn't a souffle recipe where a dozen conditions HAVE TO be met in order for the souffle to rise. Storytelling would have died off centuries ago due to boredom and repetition.
>This is nothing more than a story about someone traveling to another place.
If you want to be that absurdly reductionist, ok. So is
>Star Wars ANH
>Lawrence of Arabia
>The Hobbit
>LOTR
>The Godfather
>Apocalypse now
>Avatar
>Titanic
>Jurassic Park
>Harry Potter
>Gone with the wind
What else do they all have in common? Oh yeah, cultural significance and the highest grossing movies of all time.

>>204074486
Because unimaginative hacks use it as an exact checklist to the point that people can recognize the story turning points.

>>204055245
1: Character journey into villainy is a classical one. Some of the best stories in human history are about the main character slowly falling into villainy. 2: Making the journey meaningless can by itself be far more meaningful than any "revelations". Part of the reason why history is better than most fiction is because a lot of it is pointless and people don't learn anything. There is a honesty there that fiction often struggles to replicate. 3: Often the point can be having a positive influence on the world. Even if the hero dies or downright fails in the process, he can still be validated due to the course of history. That's, hilariously, actually very common in actual ancient storytelling. Achilles didn't learn anything and he ultimately died a fairly pathetic death. Liu Bei failed in his quest and ultimately died a fairly pathetic death. King Arthur got stabbed by Mordred, Etc 4: Sometimes having the hero fail BUT learn something from that failure is far better. Gilgamesh is the Ur example of that and, for as old as that story is, it's ending is genuinly more relevant, uplifting, and meaningful than most actual "Modern" heroes journey stories.

>>204074647
>avatar
>cultural significance
Agree about the rest but you shat the bed there

>>204074168
What's the point of that? Retarded bored rich people doing retarded rich bored people shit?

>>204054600
Painter Seap Alvin & the Mu really said that!?
Well, now I need to change how I view movies.

>>204074376
>They might be secretly special
Which defeats the entire point moron.

>>204074647
NTA, but:

>>Star Wars ANH
I really wanted to disagree with this one, but you went with A New Hope so I have to agree.

>The Hobbit
Far more deconstructive and cynical about the concept than Lord of the Ring. It does count, but It's hardly a straight example. If anything, it's ultimately shown that he CAN'T really return to a normal life.

>The Godfather
How the fuck is that him returning to "Normal life"? The entire point of that story is that normal life was denied to him. By the end he's a ruthless mobster, any chance for a normal life permanently stained by the lives he took and the methods he used to achieve that.

This is like saying Anakin Skywalker has a hero journey in the prequels because by the end he returns to his normal life of being a sith lord

>Avatar
It kind of counts if you view abandoning his old life as returning to normalcy.

>>204055245
See the Last Jedi for how these people think it should be done.

>>204074771
Last Jedi largely plays it straight. By the end of that story Rey HAS learned something and changed as a person.

If anything, for all of the bitching, what eventually happens to Luke Skywalker IS way more innkeeping with actual ancient storytelling. I mean, for fuck sake, they basically send him to fucking Avalon and all of the retarded people clamoring for "Classical" storytelling threw a hissy fit.

>Well it was poorly handled
Welcome to classical storytelling.

>>204074647
The Journey doesn't exist if it doesn't actually have a set structure.
You are projecting a structure onto a set of stories that don't share one.

Compare Star Wars and Apocalypse Now, then. You named them.
Luke is a random kid that was dissatisfied with his monotony but didn't have a greater goal. A total novice with hidden potential.
Willard was a highly trained killer that wanted to go back to killing ASAP. A master of his element.
Willard directs his own journey, he is drawn to the heart of the jungle, but he sets the pace of events on getting there. Everything is about getting into the goal. Kurtz is a distant figure who is a symbol, he is an excuse for Willard to do what he loves the most. Luke is pulled around by others and he has real mentors along the way who give him direction personally. He even loses mentors and is forced to adapt to living without them. Something Willard never experiences, as killing Kurtz was the plan the entire time and was what gave him ecstasy.
Willard ends his story more deeply immersed in the magical world, being now the new heart of the jungle himself. While Luke ends as a magical hero, but one who doesn't lie within the magical world wholly, he is split across worlds.

There isn't a shared structure to these, other than "guy goes somewhere and does something".
The specifics of how they use concepts, where characters exist in relation to them, are all different. Even what concepts are important are different.

>>204074770
If the hero is transformed by the experience, how do they return to normal life or normalcy? Usually older, but wiser. "Return to normal life" is a bit too literal, usually calling it "The Return" covers that base. And the criteria I was replying to was "dude it's all just moving one place to another"

>>204074933
>The Journey doesn't exist if it doesn't actually have a set structure.
>You are projecting a structure onto a set of stories that don't share one.
Every pizza must have the exact same ingredients and exact same crust and depth.
>Compare Star Wars and Apocalypse Now, then. You named them.
as examples of someone going from once place to another, not as direct 1 to 1 hero's journey comparisons. The acolyte goes nowhere. The marvels goes nowhere.

>>204074943
>If the hero is transformed by the experience, how do they return to normal life or normalcy?
Same way people that actually go through life changing experiences keep going. It's not impossible.

And if you want to be less literal, you still need to set some boundaries. "Dead" isn't returning to anything, it's being dead.

>>204075056
Dead isn't a hero's stage. There's death and resurrection as a stage. Heroes often make the supreme sacrifice (death) and live on as myth, legend, or even a statue.
>Gladiator (2000)
>300 (2006)
>The Dark Knight Rises (2012)
>V for Vendetta (2005)

>>204075143
I find most of those examples fairly nebulous. At the very least it kind of contradicts whatever point OP was trying to make anyway.

>>204057673
>If you don't see a bunch of kids there go to another until you find the kind of church I'm talking about.
>Just go Church shopping for pussy
You disgust me you know that.

>>204074742
resources don't have to be monetary, but even so. like, seeing a prince setting up making conquests and reshaping the world isn't bad

>>204075025
The issue is you're defining every 'topping on top of a grain base' as a pizza.

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>>204055245
>>In the end, they learned nothing
Already done

>>204074761
Star Wars was explicitly based on Campbell's book, and Luke is special from the start.
The concept of the Hero's Journey isn't about a literally 'nobody' protagonist, but one who is distant and disconnected from the coming struggle that upsets his status quo.

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>>204075840
>Star Wars was explicitly based on Campbell's book, and Luke is special from the start.

lol no

>>204075777
I'll admit that pizzas made with almond flour, cauliflower and coconut flour bases exist.

>>204054903
disneys hercules
disneys aladdin
disneys the little mermaid
disneys hunchback of notre dame
disneys pocahontas
disneys the lion king
disneys the black caldron
disneys beauty and the beast

>>204075907
Not sure what that says, but Lucas specifically said that he used Campbell's book as a guide.
>Mr. Lucas's first encounter with Mr. Campbell's work was equally formative. ''About 10 years ago, I had an idea of doing a modern fairy tale, but I didn't quite know what I was doing,'' said the film maker. ''I stumbled across 'Hero With a Thousand Faces,' and I said, 'This is it.' It was the first time I began to focus what I'd been doing intuitively. I wanted to distill everything down to basic plots about good and evil, death and life, and it was all right there - and it had been there for thousands of years.''
>https://www.nytimes.com/1985/03/01/books/a-master-of-mythology-is-honored.html

>>204056003
I like stories where the main character is and always will be an evil, murderous shit, but develops a soft spot for the innocent and those that were loyal to him, even going out of his way to refrain from indulging his malevolence while in their presence.

What he does while away from them is another matter entirely. Anyone not innocent or loyal is fair game.

>>204054651
>MC starts as a loser and then ends as a loser

worked for Big Lebowski... but even then Lebowski DOES still have a character arc... he just winds up in the same place he was at the start

>>204054903
star wars
matrix
total recall
minority report
collateral
Training Day
Predator
Die Hard

>>204057673
Churches are literal cults.
Nepotism included.

>>204064585
Hercules was a loser and a hero.
He did all manner of fucked up things.
But he kept trying to be better anyway.

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>>204054600
>Twitter name: Firedash the transgender pyrofox
>No one has actually ever been happy! Happiness is a toxic male invention that denies the reality of the suffering taking place in some part of the world somewhere at all times!

>>204055245
One of my favorite quotes from this site was from 9 years ago. Anon was like

>guise i found a plot hole in harry potter... why didn't Voldemort fuck off to the mountains and live in a cave with his immortality

and then some anon responded and said

>another plot hole, why didn't the protagonist realize the futility of the human condition and immediately an hero at the start of the film

Sometimes you guys were pretty funny

>>204074647
You just named 11 things made AFTER THE SUPPOSED MONOMYTH RETARD.

>>204075465
Why not? Are you a retarded bored rich heir?