Yes, silksong is dogshit
>Yes, I am dogshitftfy
>>727609039weird i had fun with silksong and i didn't have to get good or take a breaki guess i must just be naturally better than you
Wait isn't this that gay pedophile guy
>>727609114Fippybippy
Humans need to be challenged to enjoy stuff though. It's in our nature
>>727609132I am 100% more successful than you will ever beI have more money, I get more bitches, my body looks better
>>727609114His statement didn't need fixed, the game was in fact dogshit.
>>727609245>I get more bitchesTry to stay alive until puberty first
>>727609230Challanged by having to backtrack over and over again?
>>727609230Shut up retard you don't know anything about human nature
>>727609039Seems like you too bad at games to have fun with Silksong. It's okay, hard games are not for everyone.
>I don't like X, so X is baddifferent people like different thingsIf you don't like games as difficult as silksong, games you should not play them
>>727609245And you're bad at videogames.
>>727609456Also my dick is 7.5 inches and thick
fucking post it already
>>727609398everything i don't like is bad by definition
>/v/ lost and got raped.>again.
You gain nothing by forcing yourself to finish a game you don't enjoy.Absolutely not a damn thing.
>>727610193you get the bragging rights for wasting your time doing something you don't like for free (or -$20, in this case)
>>727610062I don't like you.
>>727609039SOUND THE BASEDALARMLol.
>>727609114FPBP
>>727609319Simply stop dying>>727609487And you suck at videogames
>>727609039>i'm not having fun if there is challenge in a game :'(Gaming almost died because of big babies like you OP. I'm glad fromsoft revitalized it.
>>727610875>rollslop one button "combat" >revitalizing anything
>>727610315Thats why you always pirate a game before buying It
>>727610951It revitalized the concept of games not handing everything to you on a plate and not never dying once in the whole playthrough.
>>727610458Yes I'm bad, I'm bad. You know it.
>>727609039Metroid slop deflection thread.
>>727611627Keep your fucking tendie shit out of here goddamn it I'm sick of seeing it everywhere.
>>727610458your opinion is irrelevant.my opinion defines what is bad.
>>727612741Your skin looks like the shit I just took so nothing you say matters.
What's to stop the OP from learning cheat engine and just raping whatever stands in the way of fun?
>>727609039The idea that a game should never challenge you enough to require focus and tension is absurd and I refuse to take it seriously
>>727612798your opinion on any matter is irrelevant
>>727609039This guy is the bane of troons.
>>727612798I am having white skin actually, but whatever helps you sleep at night.
I have dropped a few games shortly before the end or in the postgameI got hundreds of games to play, if I got my fun out of one and it veers into antifun, then I'll just quit and be satisfied with it
>>727612968>SAR I AM HAVING WHITE SKIN BLOODY BENCHOD BASTERD BICHlol sure Rishikesh.
Yep, fuck E33.
>>727609039I haven't played it, but I believe you. I tried the first one and the constant backtracking made the game more of a chore than a fucking game.
>>727609039I have fun "getting good", just because you suck cock doesn't mean the rest of us do.
>>727613086I really didn't think anyone would be dumb enough to take that bite.
>>727609039It's weird to me how people get so ruffled over difficulty in games. It's like they need someone to validate their choice to quit.
I don't think I've ever dropped a game for being 'too hard'. I drop games when they waste my fucking time. Fuck Warframe
>>727613870Filtered
>>727609039Same thing as complaining a book is too hard for you to read. If you don't like reading and you have to take a break every 30 minutes, it isn't a reflection on the book.
ITT, the least employed people on the website
>>727616478I have a normal 9-5 but still play like 40 vidyas a yearTry not to be a normalfag
>get repeatedly kicked in the nutsWhat's the matter, bro? Just get used to the pain and deal with it. Overcoming struggles is human nature.
>>727610951Butthurt snoy
>>727616779It's okay fren, you can just play simple games that you find fun. No need to justify yourself to strangers
>>727616834If you can't handle a kick in the nuts just say you're a pussy.
>>727616779The first time I fell down the hole as Mario, it was so unfair. I was already getting raped by my aunt, why should this 'fun' toy make me feel the same way?
>>727609039>destroying the original meaning of the scenewhy are zoomers like this
>>727609039bro just play some kirby game then, or some braindead ubislop, I don't get why you HAVE to play this one, there's thousands upon thousands of games to play, and you are somehow beating your head against this one for some reason, it's okay to not like something anon, not everything is for you
>>727616983It's brainrot. They express themselves mostly on social media, through memes. They can't articulate thoughts and feelings without a reference to a piece of media.
>>727616937
>>727616589Relief from cortisol is not the same as dopamine. Many of these games that people bitch about (fromsoft catalogue, silksong, etc) have no flowstate for players to even fall into because so much of it is designed to interrupt your expectations. Learning to play a musical piece is satisfying because it is using the exact evolutionary traits you are given as a human to perform a memorized task, solving puzzles is similar because it engages the pattern seeking behaviors in human nature. The way these games engage with players is so deceitful and self patronizing despite relying exclusively on tricks to bloat the "difficulty" in any given area or encounter It is literally the modern equivalent to the Dragon Slayer arcade machine, which only served to bilk as many quarters out of you as humanly possible. It reminds me of the Indian "Izzat" economy, where the game designers take people beating their game as some sort of personal attack, and so they only way they can "regain their honor and restore their izzat" is by vindictively making the worst possible human experience
>>727617087haven't seen this one in a while
>>727617652>flowstateTranime slopper detected. Stopped reading.
>>727617652"Flow state" just means "I want to be able to turn my brain off"
>>727616779>expectations of improving at a video game is like getting kicked in the ballsI can't even imagine being such a soft fairy boy faggot.
>>727609039>I'm a filthy casual and I got filteredSorry to hear that.
>>727617652Flow state depends on the individual's competency in whatever it is they're doing. In other words, if you had more skill, you would achieve a flow state in harder games.
>>727618136No it's a term for when you hit the sweet spot between challenge and ease that creates optimal performance. Anyone who's good at their job will achieve a flow state at work.
>>727617652>The way these games engage with players is so deceitful and self patronizing despite relying exclusively on tricks to bloat the "difficulty" in any given area or encounterincredible how you managed to use so many words and yet say nothing of substance
If you bought a game knowing it's meant to be challenging to play and part of the fun is overcoming it, why play it if you know you won't like it?
>>727619989>he only plays games where he can "play optimally" without ever improving his abilitylmao
>>727609039>get new game>open the best playthrough I can find online on my 2nd monitor>download the best cheating table or trainer I can findoh yeah is gaming time
>>727620508Based game beater
>tfw old enough to watch video game discourse go from "this game sucks because it's too easy" to "hard games shouldn't exist" fucking normalfag casuals leave
>>727609039you think silksong is bad because you suck at video games and got filteredi think silksong is bad because act 3 was blatantly unfinished and a complete messwe are not the same
>>727620608Congratulations on turning 15 :)
>>727620631what would it take for act 3 to feel "finished" in your eyes?
>>727620631>act 3 was blatantly unfinished and a complete messFiltered hard
>>727620837completely different map with new enemies and no repeat bosses
>>727620608funny how that works huh?
>>727617652fpbpchuddies seethe at this fpbp post because of the accurate association with indians
>>727620943you mean unlocking a new area or really a completely new map? would hornet travel to it somehow or would it be connected?
>>727620837a coherent storyline, for oneand gameplay that isn't just "fast travel here, talk to npc, fast travel there, do dream fight, repeat"and bosses that aren't blatantly cut content that team cherry just dumped into act 3 because they needed bosses for it
>>727609039>Yes, silksong is dogshityes, but not for that reasonyou can tell this guy has never had a hobby outside of video games
It took me until Gamecube to realize I actually don't like platformers at all and I was just playing them because that's what Nintendo had.So by putting all that shit on GameCube like Resident Evil Remake, Killer 7, Baiten Katos, Lost Kingdoms, etc ironically made me stop being a Nintendo fan.
>>727609114OP BTFO
>>727621183oh yeah and for elegy of the deep to not be a fucking afterthoughtit lets you access the memories of dead bugs and fight them but you can't use it to fight the third pinstress? or shakra's master? oh but you can use it to invade green prince's head and kill him for literally no reason
>>727609039But getting good is the fun part
I never played silksong because I didn't really care for hollow knightI think I just don't like soulslike games in general and it's not a mere skill issue there's just something about their feedback loop that doesn't really keep me engaged.
>>727622128cope harder. you're trashgit gud
>>727621483>It took me until Gamecube to realize I actually don't like platformers at all and I was just playing them because that's what Nintendo had.Try an adult platformer like Mirror's Edge
>>727622128HK isn't a soulslike, retard
>>727620415You clearly don't understand the graph. The X axis is your skill in whatever task you're doing at that moment. Obviously, you retard, the more you do something, the more your skills increase. That is in fact what we're talking about with people who can't play Silksong. They feel too much anxiety and give up before their skills increase, let alone enough for them to be bored (although they will say they are bored).
>>727609348Shut up retard you don't know anything about human nature
>>727622354curious how most people can get into the sweet spot for souls gamesbut low IQ "people" like you are stuck saying its too hard?
This game shows that no one play platformer for real, silksong was easy as fuck, Karmelita and the last boss were honestly hard. Don't know much about that guant swamp toad because like hell I would do that backtracking so I cogfly'd his mooks. First sinner best boss.
>>727622574nta but we're not saying souls is too hard. we're saying it's dishonest. souls games are trivial if you have sufficient knowledge and levels. The RPG aspect disconnect you from the flow. So they throw in ambiguous hitboxes and other jank to throw you off because if they didn't it would just be simon saysa rhythm game has honest difficulty. no matter how much you metafag and read wikis, if you can't execute you lose. and if you ever get good you can see that rhythm games are the best for entering a flow state. next are single player time based games like time trials in racing games or speedruns in platformers, and after that is shmups.
>>727623029then just use meta knowledge to put yourself in a position where you reach flow state?why taint the game with easy-mode when players can supposedly trivialize it?admit it. you're just bad, looking for excuses, because you feel some strange internal shame at not being able to beat hard gameshere's a tip for youthat shame would not go away if you beat it on easy
>>727622128>>727622301bro I find it insane that people parrot the soulslike shit with no critical thought whatsoever, people made fun of journos a few years back for constantly saying game X is the dark souls of Y but now you have these people unironically saying this type of shit for silksong
>>727609039I haven't played Silksong yet, but I agree. Me have fun, me play the game. Game no fun, me drop the game. And that's why I don't have a backlog, just a bunch of games I'd play, but not today.
>>727623029>it's dishonest because I don't like it????????????
>>727623497>a bunch of games I'd playWhat do you think a backlog is?
>>727609039TRVKE
>>727623370i beat every souls games i played (lies of p and elden ring)they're not that hard dude. they exist at the intersection between hardcore skill based games (rhythm,shmup,time trials, character action, fighting, etc) and casual normie games (JRPGs, WRPGs, action RPGs, roguelikes,adventure, etc)the hardest charts in an easy rhythm game like hatsune miku are way harder than a soulslike. getting a 1cc in an easy shmup is harder than a soulslike. getting all the stars in the mirrors edge time trials is harder than a soulslike. but these types of games are shunned by normies and journalists because they're too honest. if you lose you have no out besides blaming yourself. with souls you always have plausible deniability that you're not bad, that's why normies like it.
>>727623654The way I see it from many posts, an obligation of sorts. "Oh this looks good, but ugh, backlog so big, how do will I ever fit this new game..."
>>727623605>only difficulty comes from arbitrary contrived solutions>instead of a natural progression of ever more complex systems that build intuitively off one another and reward critical thinking/active engagementYes, when you make the telegraph for something utterly unreadable, or when you have unreactable moments like bosses falling into you and doing contact damage, that is the equivalent of forcing you to pixel hunt in an old point and click gameIt is entirely divorced from what the game is or tries to do, it may as well just roll a dice on the screen and subtract your HP because you didnt gamble correctly
>>727623883Oh I see. It probably depends on your level of autism I guessMy backlog is also just the hundreds of games in my library that I pick at random when I finish one
>>727613870I fucking love Warframe. LOVE IT. Love the aesthetic, love the gameplay. Story is retarded as hell, but the rest? Fantastic! But I have never in my entire god damn life played a game that has less fucking respect for my time.Do you need A? You can farm it directly, but if you were strong enough to do that you wouldn't need A to begin with. Your only option is to farm B for money but the drop rate is so low and the danger too high that you're better off trying to farm C for considerably less cash. But to get C reliably you need [Specific Warframe] and to get [Specific Warframe] without buying it from the cash shop you need to farm D, E, and F. D and F both involve you farming G and H to gain favor with their respective factions and F only drops from [Specific Boss]. You have to farm I and J to even be able to access [Specific Boss], and then you find that [Specific Boss] can't be soloed unless you're a min-maxed whale, so you have to either try to get a raid together (raids for [Specific Boss] stopped being a thing like five years ago, so good luck) or you have to find a min-maxed whale to kill [Specific Boss] for you but they want 50 B to do it (and what you need from [Specific Boss] isn't a guaranteed drop, so that's 50 B for EACH run) and the whole thing is just an endless loop of "fuck you and fuck everyone who doesn't dump their life savings into the cash shop."But man, until you reach that point? What a fucking ride.
>>727623948you are doing such crazy mental gymnastics all just to to protect your own ego, your entire argument boils down to "I'm not bad, it's the game's fault, it's dishonest", it's pathetic
>>727622574Also NTA but currently not even 40% of Silksong players on Steam (to be fair its 39.9%) have gotten the Weaver Queen achievement which is the easiest of the ending achievements to get. (and also, the "ending" you get that does not involve act 3 at all meaning you're not even seeing the full game, it's like if DS1 had an ending you could get in Anor Londo that rolled credits and NG+) Quite literally by definition of what the data suggests, the amount of people who ever reach the "sweet spot" necessary to actually complete the game are a statistical minority among the total volume of people who have booted up the game at least once. It's a shame that SotE did not launch with trophies to run a similar analysis because I would be genuinely interested to see what was the total statistic of players who ended up beating gay nigga Radahn.No one is saying that the "gitting gud" process needs to be cut entirely, in fact when the perfect flow state is achieved by the end of the game every player who finishes the game should have reached the same level of general skill to complete the game regardless of initial skill level at the start of the game. A veteran of the genre would just be running through the earlier stages of the game faster than a new player until they reach the later stages where the challenge matches the level of skill they already outsourced from playing other games.
I haven't played silksong but have been playing hollow knight.It's the most I've ever played of a game which does the whole Soulslike "get to get back to where you died to get your shit back" mechanic. And thus far it really hasn't felt like it made the game any more challenging. It just added tedium as recovering your shit just became an extra step.
>>727624487should every game appeal to everyone? is every player "entitled" to the full game just because they launched it?
>>727624084Warframe is extremely grindy but its not a cash shop havenThe buyables from the store are explicitly worse than the versions you can buy from other players, similarly, its now incredibly easy to get a dozen or so frames from the early stages of the game up and running at strong enough levels that they will carry you into the end gameRhino/revenant are both available before mars and are easily farmable once you get to mars, and getting a kuva lich gun is piss easy with either and one of the halfway decent weapons you can buy blueprint for from the market with creditsWarframe has had its Rollercoaster, dont get me wrong, but the only real issues anymore are the daily mastery rank lock for brand new baby accounts, and the desire to build every gun and character being chokepointed by nightwave credits for catalysts/reactorsDrop rates are kinda low on some stuff though I agree, but nothing ever so bad that it occupies you for forever. Its the accumulated 1/10 drops in a 10 minute mission over and over that is grindy
>>727624487>Also NTA but currently not even 40% of Silksong players on Steam (to be fair its 39.9%) have gotten the Weaver Queen achievementAnd the number will never get higher. Check the achievement rates of ANY game and you will find the same story, no matter whether it's something normalfags get filtered by
>>727624084>I fucking love Warframe. LOVE IT. Love the aesthetic, love the gameplay. Story is retarded as hell, but the rest? Fantastic! But I have never in my entire god damn life played a game that has less fucking respect for my time.literally me except instead of warframe it's dead rising>>727624487>currently not even 40% of Silksong players on Steam (to be fair its 39.9%) have gotten the Weaver Queen achievement which is the easiest of the ending achievements to get.that's impressively high. >>727624497>And thus far it really hasn't felt like it made the game any more challenging. It just added tedium as recovering your shit just became an extra step.it's meant to punish you and add stakes to each interaction. in the old school they send your ass back to level 1 but now we have checkpoints and saves.
Why are you not allowed to criticize silksong?
>>727624917Cause I like the game
>>727624351Why should anyone respond to your posts if you can't even comprehend theirs?
>>727624917You aren't allowed to criticize any difficulty in any game else the unemployed come out of the woodwork to scream >"skill issue!"From their parent's basementsYou could make a game literally a casino slot machine and they would still try and cope "that its fair you just suck"
>>727624487>word words words words-I'm bad and want easy games that don't remind me I'm bad but make me feel like I'm good instead.There, I condensed all your bullshit into a single sentence for you, retard.
>>727625109>You aren't allowed to criticize any difficulty in any game else the unemployed come out of the woodwork to scream>>"skill issue!">From their parent's basementsmost of the time they're based and right. but i am the final boss of the unemployed (FIRE daytrader) and in this context I think they are wrong to champion soulslikes as the epitome of skill based gaming
>>727624735No, but I think there is a discussion to be had when even fans of prior works in a series are pushing back against certain design choices and running into increasingly more divisive responses to it. (and more importantly, those divisive voices growing in number with each new game) I beat Shadow of the Erdtree at launch and I found it to be the most miserable experience I had playing a souls game and I've been such a diehard fan of this franchise that I've been playing ever since they made the fucking EU version of Demon's Souls on PS3 before Atlus got the rights to publish the game in NA just so I could play the game sooner. I similarly have a friend I was just speaking to earlier this week who was a massive fan of HK1 (100% it and the DLC and everything) who was telling me about how much of a miserable time he's been having due to the runbacks in Silksong testing his patience.For me personally, I think the overall gameplay sandbox present in Shadow of the Erdtree didn't just push itself to the very limit, I think it took it a step too far. The fact that Consort Radahn has an attach string where the 2nd attack in the combo comes in so fast that you MUST either perform specifically a frame perfect dog roll at light encumbrance, lucky positioning (it's a string tossed at random, so there's genuinely no opportunity to predict the incoming string ahead of time), specifically a dodge+ weapon art, or chugging the sekio parry potion to actually avoid the damage or accept chump blocking and taking unavoidable damage is the sign that the content design itself has outpaced what shape of player and skill expression you could make out of the general state machine of a Souls PC. Restrictions that server place limits on what can be considered viable options and playstyles (when player expression is the key factor that helps Souls games stand out) and it's no surprise that design like it has been leading to a widening schism among even core fans.
>>727625065what even is there to engage with? boiling down game mechanics to>it may as well just roll a dice on the screen and subtract your HP because you didnt gamble correctlysounds patently retarded, there's no substance to contend with here, it removes all player agency from the discussion, I refuse to engage with your absurd premise
>>727624917Dark Souls "Prepare to Die" marketing literally killed video game discourse.
>>727625178Begone from my sight, disgusting troglodyte. Your words carry no meaning and serve zero purpose. I'll leave this thread to go jerk off and forget about it instantly but you'll still forever be a gay retard crying that your only sense of identity as a human being is being challenged and that's fucking hilarious.
>>727623948>Yes, when you make the telegraph for something utterly unreadable, or when you have unreactable moments like bosses falling into you and doing contact damage, that is the equivalent of forcing you to pixel hunt in an old point and click gameWhat the fuck are you talking about
>>727625421>I think they are wrong to champion souls likes as epitome of skill based gamingTheir entire argument is centered around making personal attacks instead of discussing anything actually related to the gameFor all intents and purposes they speak as though their only experience was watching some streamer beat it for them (another professionally unemployed) and basing their opinion off someone who has more hours in one game than some masters have in their tradeskillNone of these people ever speak to the joy or engagement of learning anything else, because they aren't learning. So many of these games allow you to modulate your exact level of difficulty even down to just spamming attempts to luck into favorable AI patterns, which in and of itself is has become a legitimate strategy in a lot of these "difficult" games.
>>727626124holy based
>Using the quote from a villain to justify being a shitter
>>727619989aka autopiloting aka turning your brain off
>>727625865I think there are different ways of approaching the "sequel" issue, some games naturally lend themselves to incremental updates more than others, but at the same time you have to ask yourself if that's enough? I mean recently there's the release of Metroid Prime 4 for instance, and disregarding the more controversial elements of the game such as the NPCs, many reviewers are pointing out that it barely evolved the formula in such a long timeI've seen plenty of people say that it is a good game if you want "more prime" I guess, but at some point you also have to ask yourself if that's enough? similarly there were people complaining that the souls formula was getting stale, even with ER's changes, a lot of people still saw it as DS4, and in some aspects I even agree you can make a non trivial or reductive argument for itat some point we have to ask ourselves what do we want out of these sequels? if it's quite literally more of the same, I feel that on some level that's a bit of a failure, if you're just repeating what you did previously, what sets it apart from it? I guess viewing it through a cynical lens you could call it just "more content" but that doesn't feel very satisfying to me, I would expect something more at the very least, otherwise you're just reducing it to some throwaway, consumable good, where things are more or less interchangeable with each other
>>727625937The "absurd premise" is literally the current realitySo many games will have attacks that cannot be avoided on anything other than specifically conditioning for that one attack, like for example water fowl. It defies every established rule in the entire game and actively punishes you with a near guaranteed death unless you luck out against it or be handed the solution from some autist online Its the equivalent to just being handed the odds for each blackjack hand instead of spending dozens of hours doing the math yourself, and its not anything you would ever organically learn how to deal with in any kind of reasonable way. And that is only one example out of countless I could pull. Any attack with a screenwide AOE delayed explosion is entirely random on when the timing for it is, this shit happens in messmer, PCR, bale, even shit like hora loux. The "patently retarded" mechanic is what you are already living in, and not only that but glorifying by treating it as though its a "skill issue" when it is categorically, inarguably random chance at best, and actively misleading in design at worst.
>>727626918Waterfowl has clear telegraphing when she's about to use it.
>>727609039
>>727626918>So many games will have attacks that cannot be avoided on anything other than specifically conditioning for that one attack, like for example water fowl.you can literally block it, it does almost no guard damage, you can block with a greatsword with no issues>but i refuse to use shields and cant dodge cause of my grandpa reaction timekys then
>>727626718>at some point we have to ask ourselves what do we want out of these sequels? if it's quite literally more of the same, I feel that on some level that's a bit of a failure, if you're just repeating what you did previously, what sets it apart from it?we're better off without sequels. studios should make one game per series and that's it. new ip is exponentially more valuable to me than new levels. only a very small percentage of books and movies have direct sequels and video games should mirror this frequency
>>727626718If it were up to me personally, I would consider the idea of simply expanding the overall gameplay sandbox and state machine of the Souls PC to close the gap between what a player can do compared to what a boss can do in this era of 20 hit flippy-dippy "infinite stamina" boss attack patterns. I think Nightreign itself kinda reflects the potential in that idea with how the additional character skills and mechanics allow for the playable characters to embody more "idealized" versions of different common playstyles you see in traditional souls games. Guardian embodies the fantasy of the high poise big shield guy but with additional mechanics that help make sure his core fantasy of the defender works at the cost of other aspects like having a worse normal dodge.What I would hope would be for a way to translate these concepts present in Nightreign and adapt them to better fit the core Souls framework. The idea I've spun around in my head would be something like a true class/vocation system. Like you still level up like normal but you can find and equip different "vocations" that give you access to different abilities and different drawbacks that you swap at the bonfire. Keeping the player expression but letting them specialize into their preferred playstyle so they can still engage with the more challenging content on their own terms, rather than being forced into a corner like SotE was moving towards. I do think in this instance there's a middle-ground that could be found that satisfies everyone and figuring that out will be the next big innovation in that formula.
Notice how all this souls bitching doesn't apply to silkysong
>>727609039>anons got RAPED by hornetWhy couldn't this have happened to me
Reminder that the rise of "games shouldn't be hard" posting coincides nearly 1 to 1 with gachafags infesting /v/.
>>727609039Do not put such pedestrian words in the mouth of my man Anton Ego...
>>727609039They make shitty mobile games for your types
>>727624917Is there any real critique against Silksong?
>>727609039I do not like Vidya, I LOVE vida. And if I do not like it, I will shitpost about it constantly. And all I know is that I've done a lot more shitposting than playing video games for the past two decades.
if you don't like picrel you're just bad
>>727609493|>
if you don't like it you're just bad
>>727626918mad cause bad, unironically
don't like it? skill issue.
>>727609039I always thought Ego looked like spy
>metroid prime 4 is shi-git gud
>>727609039Imagine coping this hard because youre a shitter.
>>727628224>>727628327>>727628415>>727628546it's just not for me and that's okay :)meanwhile in your retarded world view>NOOOOOOOO IT HAS TO BE GOOD OR BAD FOR EVERYONE
>g-goylso-mad cuz bad
>>727628594he got truly mind broken because of a bug lmao
>>727628670>i'm dogshit and that's okay :)it's time to retire, unc
>>727628224>>727628327>>727628415>>727628546>>727628676uh oh meltie
>>727609114Fpbp
>>727628805that's fine, I can play games that appeal to me :)
>>727628812it's okay to admit you're a shitter if you don't like game I like bro we don't judge here
>>727628812I wonder what game he flunked out of that caused this melty. Silksong maybe?
>>727627938Plenty
>there should be easy gamessure>hard games need to stop being madenoany questions?
>>727609039Silksong IS dogshit but don't excuse your retardation. That game is piss easy
>>727627624I play two gachas and Silksong is my GOTY, don't foist this shit on us.
>>727629228Elaborate.
>>727628812Threadly reminder that there was a brazilian who was filtered by Fourth Chorus and mindbroke so hard he started spamming pizza in the early threads
>>727629812The Soulsfaggot mental disorder where people act like it's a punishment if they see an attack more than once is truly crippling.
>>727609039getting gud and having fun are the same though.
>>727626036Imagine still being angry that all games didn't just become walking simulators
>>727609039Me with Prime 4. I'm about to go back to Runescape and try sailing.>captcha: ahswag
>>727609114fpbp
>>727629917Not necessarily, it depends on the process it takes to "get gud", not just the end result that comes with it. Literally starving yourself is a pretty clear cut way to eventually lose weight, but no one would ever recommend it as a viable or pleasant way to accomplish the end goal of "getting thinner".Let's say you're playing a game that overall you're enjoying but it has this nasty problem where this tough boss you need to get gud at has this 1 minute and 32 second long unskippable cutscene that plays every single time you start a new attempt. Sure one could argue that the mental torment from watching time pass by in a state of non-interactivity is adding tension that might motivate someone to try to do better so they can be free of needing to watch this cutscene over and over and over but beyond that, is this quirk in the design truly adding anything to the experience of "getting gud"? What other purpose does it serve? If it has no other purpose, was it truly the developer's intent to waste almost 2 minutes of the player's time every time they want to try again? If it was their intent is that something that consumers should even really be rewarded, or would it be fair in this instance to criticize against it? Of course, as individuals everyone has their "boiling point" so to speak, so where does the line get drawn? What is the middleground of "tough, but 'fair'?"
>>727629034Why would I play that? I don't have an estrogen prescription. I play games for real men.
>>727609039That dude sounds upset, he should take a break
>>727631047Definitely Silksong
>>727629672Side quest design, contact damage, upgrades, tools, rosaries, corpse runs in a game about exploration
>>727630938I think in your example it comes down to what the game wants you to do and what the game is actually doing. For example your example regarding the cutscene. Final Fantasy X has an infamous point with Yunalesca where there's a long cutscene just before her fight. It's non interactive and watching it doesn't give you any clues on how to perform better. Now I like Auron. But hearing "THIS IS IT! NOW IS THE TIME TO CHOOSE!" Is going to get really fucking annoying after hearing that the 5th time. Going back to Silksong one of the biggest complaints is the runbacks. Specifically the runback to the Last Judge and to Groal. I understand the complaints up to a point but I also think that it's about overcoming an area rather than just the boss. It's not enough to just get to the boss, you have to get to the boss with enough resources to fight him too. Which does require you to "git gud." Once you're able to do that, the area can no longer threaten you as much as it did before. Even though I do think Groal takes it a step too far just because of how difficult Bilewater is as an area.
>>727630938>the mental torment from watching time pass by in a state of non-interactivityI'm sorry, WHAT? Torment? From a minute and a half long cutscene? I don't care how many times I go through it, that's not the verbiage I'd pick for a damn cutscene.This is why people don't take critiques like these seriously.
>>727631498I'm going to require more elaboration than that. None of what you're mentioning sounds like a downside to me on its own.
>>727631498true, skill issue, skill issue, skill issue, skill issue, skill issue, 1/6 ain't that bad I guess, you could play russian roulette with those odds!
I knew Silksong was goty when I found the pro-choice quest.
>>727624858> in the old school they send your ass back to level 1 Even that was just tedium with the feeling they only did it because older games didn't have means to save progress.
>>727632572>actually sending people back when they failed was a technical limitationI fucking hate this place
>>727631581In regards to Silksong, if the intent of the runbacks were to present a challenge of area mastery I feel like that is just a fundamentally flawed way to attempt through game design to express a certain feeling to a player. I think you could have just as easily looked into making the core progression of navigating an area inherently challenging so by the time the player actually reaches the boss they already feel a sense accomplishment and mastery of the area. I could see how maybe platforming design that's more demanding might end up making the backtracking always expected within the metroidvania genre more tedious if you had to go through a gauntlet of ball-busting platforming challenges every time you want to return to a spot on the map you wish to explore with future power-ups but now that starts to raise a deeper question on the consequences of trying to merge two different genres of game design together and the design challenges that come with it. Personally I would believe that it would be more rewarding to make the level itself more challenging to accomplish the goal of testing the player's mastery of the level design but I do believe that it's also something that's difficult to also layer into metroidvania design unless you have a really good form of natural power-up progression to mitigate later tedium from backtracking with future power-ups.
>>727632472What about the racism?
>>727632823You don't think most games would have let you save your progress is it wasn't more work to implement? Why do you think level passwords were a thing? It was a work around.
Take a break.
>>727633207How many game playthroughs are you currently taking a break from? 100? 200?
>>727631647It's exaggerated verbiage for an already exaggerated straw-man of an example, don't bother trying to think more deeply into it than that. If you for whatever reason don't find any fault in a form of game design that offers genuinely nothing but the opportunity to have your time wasted not even engaging in forms of play, then that speaks more to how little you value your time as a resource more than anything else.
>>727609039Get filtered faggot
>>727609039>dude just take a breakName one good game this actually applies to.
>>727633479I have been unable to beat a boss, then gone to bed and easily beat it the next day countless times
>>727624858>it's meant to punish you and add stakes to each interactionAll it does is waste your time. Getting knocked back to the last bench is punishment enough. "Old school" metroidvanias did the same thing
>>727633669What the fuck are you talking about? You can just rewind in old metroidvanias
I wonder how many of these long posts are ai
Contact damage is good btw
>>727609039>mosslandsMeh>marrowMeh, Bell Beast was a good fight though>hunter's marchIt could've been good but I hated restarting from the Marrow every time I died>deep docksFrustrating, but Lace was the best boss fight in the game so far>far fieldsActually pretty good>greymoorAlso pretty good. Moorwing was a good fight>shellwoodAwful>wormwaysAwful (remember Deepnest guise?)NOTHING so far compares to the City of Tears or Resting Grounds from the original. The game is a frustrating slog. Enemies that deal two masks of damage when you only have five fucking masks is bad game design. Silksong fucking sucks.
>>727635194You got filtered before the City of Tears equivalent fyi
>>727635286"Remember City of Tears guise?" also wouldn't have made me happy btw
>>727620608It's just a few fat redditdads who complain about not having time because adulting yet they spend all day on reddit
>>727620608>oh you failed? let me roll your progress back so you can think about your mistake while you waste time going over this place you already went through for the tenth time :)This is bad "hard game" design>you failed again? you useless piece of shit, here's another attemptThis is good "hard game" designBoth Hollow Knight games are the former (despite the first not even being that hard)
>>727626682that's the blue zone m8. it's pretty explicit.
>>727635865>reeeee I hated going back every time I died, I barely even died tho I swear!Every single time with you niggers
>>727635194>NOTHING so far compares to the City of Tears >>727635358>"Remember City of Tears guise?" also wouldn't have made me happy btwlol you're so angry over getting filtered you can't even stay coherent
>>727635865>zoomers pissing and shitting their pants in rage when a game has consequences for failure
>>727609114Fpbp, love these ragebait threads, thank you jannies for leaving this dogshit thread up
>>727636190I mean just look at how they engage with nintendo switch online or emulators when playing classic titles, zoomies spam save states like there's not tomorrow, they're fundamentally allergic to consequences
>>727609039True fun and accomplishment requires work and dedication. Instant gratification is fleeting and leaves you feeling hollow. Anton Ego would understand this.
>>727636190Wasting your time is the cheapest consequence possible. It's an awful game design principle left behind from the old days when games were designed to actually siphon your time and money. This is neither desirable nor any more rewarding in this day and age.
>>727609039I had fun, so the problem here has to be you.
>>727636124>getting filteredI beat everything the game threw at me so far. There was no filter, there was a gradual breaking down until I couldn't take the slog anymore.
>>727636659But even if the game lets you retry immediately, it just wasted your time by having you play the entire boss fight againIt should just fast forward the rest of the fight and let you auto-win if you die, otherwise it wasted your time and that's so hecking icky
>>727609039Dangerously based
>>727636753There is a difference between "the fun thing you're trying to beat" and "the actual ten minute now-bland corridor leading up to it that you can beat on autopilot."
>>727636908>playing the game isn't funPlay a boss rush game then, actually well-designed games clearly aren't for you
>>727636659Is it also wasting your time when the boss makes you redo phase one when you die even after you reach phase two?
>>727636982Yeah it does wonders how using mods to just skip the boss runback improves Silksong.
>>727636982>>playing the game isn't funIf you can coast through something on autopilot, yes, it's probably not fun.If you actually have to dance with the boss and pay attention to it, that is very fun.I can think of two examples from the original game: The Traitor Lord and the Hollow Knight. They were similarly difficult and the former took around five more attempts to beat than the latter. Yet I loved the Hollow Knight fight (and not just because it was kino) while I detested the Traitor Lord one. Why? The Hollow Knight fight didn't have a five minute runback. That's the entire reason why.
>>727609039It took me until act 3 and completing retarded mini games and side quests for 100% to realize the game is not fun. It's a bloated mess with so many odd, retarded design decisions that I don't know why Team Cherry implemented other than to either copy triple A studios like ubisoft, or to spite anyone going for 100% completion in the first place.
>>727609039i wouldn't say it's dogshit but it certainly wasn't fun>please fight our boss who is autistically screeching in the arena and doesn't even aim at you>so mechanical that it couldn't hide the fact i was playing footsies with gay bots who don't even know i exist and just use moves in a set pattern
>>727637262Why the fuck did you feel the need to 100% the game if you weren't having fun doing it?
>>727637216Filtered. Stick to easier games that your brain can handle
>>727629672The music is a massive downgrade.I can recall any track of any major location in Hollow Knight, best I can do with silksong off the top of my head is the choral chambers despite not touching hollow knight in years and only recently finishing silksong. It's just a mixed pile of orchestral arrangements that mostly sound like movie soundtracks.Moss grotto is worse than greenpath, Marrow feels empty compared to crossroads, bone bottom feels way more forced than dirtmouth.Choral chambers is good, bilewater is good (though it doesn't sound like it fits the area at all) and blasted sands is very atmospheric with the sandstorm effects in game. That's the closest silksong ever gets to moments like the first time you enter the city of tears, and it's still miles apart.>inb4 nostalgiaThe classical musical nerds that never heard either soundtrack before shared my opinion.
>>727637382No argument. Concession accepted.
>>727609039It's kinda funny how I had no idea who the fuck Seth Goldman was but now thanks to Team Cherry I fucking hate the guyWay to immortalise a dead nigga, wrapping him around 3 annoying fucking minigames
>>727636659Let me guess, you use save states in older games?
>>727637356Because it's a metroidvania and every other metroidvania i've played takes like 15 hours tops to 100% and is fun to do.
>>727637420This. Bone Bottom is one of the few good songs from the new soundtrack
>>727637467>gets filtered so hard he still seethes 8 years later>I-I win!kek stay angry that you're too fucking to play a game with consequences for failureEnjoy your save states :) No more (you)sYou will respond again even though you just pretended the discussion was over
>>727637515I don't cheat and I don't mod to make the game better designed. If I can't do it vanilla, I quit the game.
>>727637262Act 3 is a shame because there's a lot of cool stuff there but there's so much banal grind to get there.
>>727609039>Ah jeez, I picked up the latest FOTM without considering its difficulty level and now I'm getting my ass kicked! How could this be happening to me?!
Dunning-Kruger in action:>dimwit>dying BAAAAD! game no punish me!>midwit>of course failure should have consequences! why are you complaining about them, are you filtered?>highwit>of course failure should have consequences which should be carefully calibrated by the developer to be as fitting to the failure as possible
runbacks are a signal that the difficulty of the boss is based entirely on pre-emptively tilting the player every single boss with a long and/or obnoxious runback is by itself a pushover notice not a single Lace encounter requires a lengthy runback, this is because she is a great boss
>>727636753your time isn't wasted if you're having fun with it. hope this helps!
>>727638078>this is because she is a great bosscome on now
>>727638162I otherwise don't really like Silksong but I agree. At least the first Lace fight was great
>>727637946So you're saying the platforming back to the boss should be 5x harder.
>>727638162toolfags wouldn't understand the high of elevated swordsmanship
>>727638281Having to do a mini Path of Pain before a fight could be good, yes
>>727624735Nta but absolutely. Gaming is for everyone
>>727638162>t. poison cogfly abuser
>>727609039Getting good is fun
>>727609039>Gaming is a real artform guys, trust me>Also I should NEVER have to use my brain while playing a game. I should be able to turn it off and still win effortlessly.
>>727609114>being good at something means you must like it this has never been true
Godhome fucking WHEN I want to fight an actually challenging GMS and no the parasite is not enough
>>727609039If you suck dick, you shouldn't even be playing a video game, you filthy casual. Stick with watching marvel movies and sportsball.
>>727638556Not when getting good is impeded by things in which there isn't much to get good at>>727638806Dishonest argument>turning off your brainis exactly what you do in a long runback, not a hard boss fight
>>727609039I averaged 35/4 on Halo 4 without ever using vehicles. I was great at the game but it was still a terrible game and I didn’t enjoy it. If it’s not fun now it won’t be when you’ve gotten used to its formula so just go ahead and drop it.
>All these niggers pre-programmed to try and derail the thread with talks about skill issueBut he said he was not having fun. If hes not having fun why should he continue to play? Why is this such a hot take? Also who the fuck cares about being le good in a single player game? No one gives a fuck about you or your cheevos lmao.
>>727609039lmao casual
>>727637946>300 iq>if the fight is won or lost in just a few hits, it was never about skill. it was always about knowing the pattern beforehand
>>727638918What runback is even giving you this much grief? I don't remember any overly annoying ones other than bilewater and even then you get a free heal to remove the worms
>>727639028One presumes someone playing a game was having funIf hitting a roadblock in the form of a boss is what prevents fun then beating said boss is a promise to unlock more funGiving up because you have to work towards your fun is a despicable notion and any living being with red blood running through their veins would oppose it
>>727638831You've obviously never been good at anything
I pity all the people that never experienced Verdania
>>727609039See, you don’t enjoy challenge though. Many of us have fun being challenged. You get your fun from easy, chill games and we enjoy being kept on our toes. Your way is viable too, just… you know, for children.
>>727639594all I have to do is mention that I’ve had sex and I’ve already lapped you by several lifetimes
>>727639652Why? Verdania is nothing special.
>>727640212You didn't get Verdania
I didn't "play" Silksong, I sat my white ass down and listened
>>727639820yeah? well, I bet you weren't very good at it.
I finally got around to playing Sekiro and now everything makes sense.Stringing Rosaries is just buying Coin Purses.Tools refilling with Shards are just Prosthetic Tools using Spirit Emblems BUT they fucked up by not making the refill cost 1 shard each. Yeah I can see where everything went wrong between the release of Hollow Knight and Silksong.
>>727639652Verdania needed a bench, it needed to be a normal zone with the dream part just being the boss room.
>>727640969nta but doesnt matter
>>727637420>>727637547Bellhart, Shellwood, Verdania and The Mist are all very good and underappreciated tracks. Idk why people keep on comparing Bonebottom with Dirtmouth when Bellhart is clearly right there (and imo the best area OST in both games)
>>727609039i liked it :(
>>727609039I hated it :)
>>727609039I found it sexy >:)
>>727638918If runbacks are a non-issue then there's nothing impeding you.
>>727629672I don't like how Act 3 & the true ending are locked behind doing an arbitrary number of sidequests, idk why it couldn't be like Hollow Knight where you just get it by exploring the map incredibly thoroughly. Act 3 sucks, every time a game tries to recreate the Inverted Castle from SOTN it ends up just dragging the game out. The void gimmick overstays its welcome and dream bosses feel incredibly disjointed from everything else, it's like they just tacked on cut content to lengthen the game. I get Khan was meant to salvage the Coral Tower assets but Karmelita and Nyleth could've easily normal bosses in Hunter's March or Shellwood.A lot of the tools just really suck ass and aren't fun using, there's unironically too many.
>>727639745there's a difference between being immersed in a novel challenge that's interesting and having to go through already solved challenges as a punishment to get back. this adds an element of highstakes emotion but purely in terms of mechanical 'fun' it's probably a detriment, at least in the case of a boss rush focused game where the level is secondary.
>>727642956Void shit should have been a temporary thing that you could cleanse if you remove all the void masses in a location. At least then it would have been neat.
>>727609039>noooo the game is too hardnot my problemMore games should force people like you out.But silksong is indeed dogshit
>>727643417OP never said the game was too hard thoughbeit.
>>727624497Walkbacks and losing your items isn't why Silksong is hard. Compared to Hollow Knight, most enemies in Silksong have more aggressive attacks, more health, and deal more damage. Even the basic bitch enemies you meet in the first 2-3 hours of the game are more dangerous than a lot of the endgame enemies in Hollow Knight. There's also a lot more spikewall/sawblade platforming.People complain about the walkbacks because you'll die a shit ton more in Silksong, which means you have to spend even more time walking back.
>>727643238>a boss rush focused gameDoesn't apply to Silksong
>>727624497>And thus far it really hasn't felt like it made the game any more challenging. It just added tedium as recovering your shit just became an extra step.Every game that has copied souls game and added corpse run never add anything of value challenge wise outside of tedium. Even the souls games themselves. Its the one mechanic that I don't get the reasoning for copy cat devs to keep bringing it back
>>727643640>Compared to Hollow Knight, most enemies in Silksong have more aggressive attacks, more health, and deal more damage. Even the basic bitch enemies you meet in the first 2-3 hours of the game are more dangerous than a lot of the endgame enemies in Hollow Knight.Am I going to jump at you, requiring you to move forward beneath me? Or am I going to tunnel underground, meaning walking forward will illicit contact damage? You have 10 frames to choose correctly
>>727641698>Idk why people keep on comparing Bonebottom with DirtmouthYeah real weird how people are comparing two cities full of desperation and few surviving refugees that you encounter at the start of the game right before entering a gray-colored cave system.>Bellhart, Shellwood, Verdania and The Mist are all very good and underappreciated tracks. They are pleasant. They're not memorable, not impactful, they're just pleasant.Compare the highs and lows of soul sanctum and the mist, even soul master blows phantom out completely past the first few notes despite being a much less important character in the respective game's plot.
>>727644327
>>727644327*walks backwards instead*>WAIT YOU CAN'T DO THAT
>>727644327You bait him to the other side of the room so he can only do 1 attack moron
>>727644389Just about the only songs I recall from HK personally are both Grimm themes, then a bit of Greenpath and City of Tears. Oh, and Path of Pain. I don't remember the music sounding bad or unfitting at all, I just don't remember anything about it other than the mood, for the most part. And the mood was also reinforced by the visuals and writing.Silksong's soundtrack, in action-oriented moments especially, is both more memorable and fitting overall, in my opinion.
>>727638839Godhome only boss where you fight Lace and Phantom together
>>727640969bodied that freak
>>727644389>Yeah real weird how people are comparing two cities full of desperation and few surviving refugees that you encounter at the start of the game right before entering a gray-colored cave systemDespite Bonebottom being the starting town, Bellhart is like the hub that you keep on returning to again and again throughout the game. Although it's aesthetically different, it's functionally the primary 'Dirtmouth' of Silksong>They're not memorable, not impactful, they're just pleasant.Eh agree to disagree I guess but the Bellhart and Bonebottom themes made enough of an impact to sorely miss their presence in Act 3. One of my main gripes with Act 3 other than the linearity was just how much of the good soundtracks were replaced with ambient droning>even soul master blows phantom out completely past the first few notes despite being a much less important character in the respective game's plot.Hot take but a lot of HK's boss themes are kind of so-so. Tracks like Mantis Lords, Soul Master, and Broken Vessel all have an incredible first 15 seconds or so before plateauing into very generic "boss theme" fare. The only arrangements that sound truly amazing for the full duration are Grimm and Sealed Vessel. As a whole, the Silksong boss themes sound more compositionally interesting and memorable, especially Trobbio and Lace
has there ever been another game that has so utterly mind broken this board?
>>727645826E33
>>727609039I'm willing to git gud if I like the game but Silksong is just fucking gay
>>727645826meh while I wish it would be unique to /v/ it seems like it mindbroke a ton of people on steam, youtube, reddit, and so on and so forth, way too many normies got their hands on the game because le heckin' "waiting for release" memes who had not actual interest in it, they just wanted to be part of the conversation, hell even the dude at the local gas station convenience store which seemingly is not big on games at all talked about silksong with me near the release date, it was a massive phenomenon which might've backfired in the end
>>727645743>Although it's aesthetically different, it's functionally the primary 'Dirtmouth' of SilksongOSTs have almost nothing to do with function... aesthetics is the whole point.>Hot take but a lot of HK's boss themes are kind of so-so.That's not a hot take, that's the main reason I was mostly discussing zone OSTs and not bossfight osts, which did not get all that better in silksong.Soul master however is a bad example because the buildup in his OST is one of the best in the games, and mantis lords got majorly redeemed by the godhome version. It's not daughter of hallownest but it's not what fucking grandmother silk is to radiance.
