Just for fun, let's come up with a Metroid Prime game. I'm talking comb over every part of the Metroid Prime trilogy and Prime 4, figure out what works, come up with new weapons and items, a new map: the whole works. As in depth or casual as people feel, but I'm curious to see what 4chan could come up with. I think a good place to start would be the items.I'll examine them in the next post.
>>727701230Samus keeps her ability mainstays throughout the game. The entire game is about exploring the world and tracking down 120 artifacts. No new abilities are gained. Samus loses her abilities at the end and reverts to zero suit. It's the first game planned in a dualogy.
Items in the Prime trilogy and their functions.I'm just going to lump them all together and lump items with the same or similar function together>Power Beam>Charge Beam>Missiles>Super MissilesThese are self explanatory staples that have been in the series since Super>Ice Beam/Dark Beam/Ice MissilesFreezes enemies obvs. Can be fun in combat against certain enemy types. Necessary part of the combat in some scenarios (Prime 2 Pirate Commandos can be stopped from warping with the Dark Beam). Used for puzzle solving, esp. in Prime 3, where ice creates platforms in lava or freezes lava floes. Used in Prime 1 and 3 to stop jets of fire. >Wave Beam/Annihilator Beam/Nova BeamEach of these beam types penetrates walls to activate switches. In Prime 1 it's contextualized as the electrical property of the wave beam charging circuits. In 2, the Annihilator has sonic properties and is used in the sonic lock puzzles (which was shallower than it should have been desu). In Prime 3, the Nova beam functions the same as the wave beam in Prime 1, but it has the added funciton of, when paired with Prime 3's X-Ray visor, hitting certain enemy's weak points for an insta-kill. >Plasma Beam/Light Beam/Plasma Beam (redux)All three are upgrades in combat power to the Plasma beam, and are used to melt things. Forgot to mention the Light Beam/Dark Beam serve functions for opening light and dark portals, and charging or destroying the light crystals in the Prime 2 Dark World. In Prime 3, the plasma beam gets a welding torch upgrade Samus uses to weld broken panelsCONT. in next post>>727702545>It's the first game planned in a dualogy.KekFor some reason that got me
>>727703030Why was it funny lol. My idea is one game where you start with everything, and one game where you start with nothing. A little something for everyone, some novelty, and experimentation. A bit of a thesis on the series being explored. Prime 2 was my favorite, and I think there's more to do with the concept of contrasts as well.
>>727703030Ok on to Visors>Scan visor/Ship Command Visor/Psychic Scan VisorMostly self explanatory. In Prime 1 the Scan visor was a way for the game to communicate hints and story to the player, but it also served a function that was dropped in later games. If you scanned an enemy Samus would often change where she locked onto said enemy, optimizing to shoot at weak points. So the Scan Visor served a minor function in combat. The Ship Command Visor in prime 3 was functionally the same as the Scan Visor, in terms of the way it was used. The Scan Visor in Prime 1 and 2 was used to activate switches, among its other functions, and using the Ship Command Visor was essentially the same, in terms of gameplay, as activating a switch. On a story context level, you're ordering your ship to perform certain actions, land, take off, go on a bombing run, etc. but on a gameplay function level it was essentially the same as using the Scan Visor to activate a switch. The Psychic Scan Visor seems to (I have not yet played Prime 4) combine the Scan Visor with the X-Ray visor, revealing invisible or incorporeal objects. >Thermal Visor/Echo Visor/X-Ray Visor (Prime3)In Prime 1 the Thermal Visor was used to be able to see enemies in the dark or enemies who were invisible, as well as to locate switches buried in walls that could be hit with the wave beam. It's also used in the Thardus fight to locate its weak points. In Prime 2, the Echo Visor is used to locate invisible sound switches (functionally this is identical to the Wave Beam/Thermal Visor combo), and is necessary for the Sonic Lock puzzles (these puzzles were essentially a short game of Simon Says with switches hidden around a room - frankly the Echo visor had some missed potential). In Prime 3 the X-Ray Visor had both the functions of the Thermal Visor and the X-Ray visor. In terms of its Thermal Visor function, it let you see the heat of cloaked enemies, and hit switches hidden in walls. Cont.
we have to add speedbooster/shinespark
I'm working on a 3d Metroidvania game so I'll be watching this thread closely...
>>727701230I wouldn't mind seeing a Super Metroid Prime and you actually get to fight Mother Brain and Kraid, but it'd have to do away with most of Prime's bullshit like all of that fucking scanning.
>>727704264>X-Ray Visor/Dark Visor/X-Ray Visor (Prime 3)The X-Ray Visor in Prime 1 allows you to see invisible platforms, and (a function that never returned) see through false walls. The Dark Visor in Prime 2 let you see invisible platforms (this was contextualized fiction-wise as seeing objects that were caught between the light and dark world). It also let you see certain invisible enemies, and the hit points for certain seeker missile puzzles. The X-Ray Visor in Prime 3, in addition to serving the function of the Thermal Visor from Prime 1, also let you see invisible platforms and (as described earlier re: the beams) let you zoom in on weak points for certain enemies, which, when combined with the Nova Beam, allowed an insta-kill.>Seeker MissilesIntroduced in Prime 2 - charges your missile launcher to fire five missiles at once at five separate targets. This was used to good effect in some boss battles, and in some minor puzzles where you'd have to hit five targets at once. >Space Jump Boots/Screw AttackSpace Jump Boots are the self explanatory double jump. Screw Attack, introduced in Prime 2, actually functions like Super Metroid's Space Jump, where pressing the jump button at the proper rhythm allows Samus to fly. This is limited both vertically and limited to 6 "boosts" in the Prime series. Screw Attack also functions like Super Metroid's Wall Jump, allowing Samus to kick up certain parallel walls (this is limited to certain clearly marked surfaces). It also has a limited combat function, doing some damage to enemies hit with the ability, although typically it's not very practical to do this because of the wind-up animations.Cont.
What works is dark, eerie atmosphere and soundtrack + cutting edge graphics.
>>727705063I also thought about a remake of Super in Prime engine. I think it would be great.
>>727705063i like scanning
>>727705681it should only be scanning enemies + lore
>>727705117>Grapple Beam/Electro GrappleGrapple Beam is mostly self explanatory. It functions like Super Metroid's Grapple Beam, allowing Samus to swing between Grapple Points in the ceiling. In Prime 3 it got some wonderful upgrades. Gained combat functionality for ripping shields from certain enemy's arms, ripping off their armor, and so on. You also get an upgrade in Prime 3 that allows you to send energy directly from your energy tanks into certain objects to charge them. Conversely you could drain certain objects of energy and get a slight boost to your E-Tank energy. Something I think few people realized, is that you could also do this to certain enemies. If there were enemies you could grapple onto, you could electrocute them by sending energy into them, or drain them of energy, which both damaged them and refilled your health. Quite cool desu. >Morph Ball/Boost Ball/Spider BallLumping all this together because if you've played it it's self explanatory. Spider Ball lets the Morph Ball magnetize to Spider Ball tracks. Boost Ball lets Samus charge the ball for a boost of speed, which was used to gain height in half pipes, and spin kinetic energy spinners. >Power Bomb/Ship MissilePower Bombs function as they do in Super Metroid. A great functional upgrade to the regular Morph Ball Bomb.In Prime 3, Power Bombs were missing, but they were functionally replaced by the Ship Missiles. Using the command visor, Samus' ship would fly where it was ordered on a bombing run. This was used in the way Power Bombs were used, but had interesting limited function: could only be used in certain rooms, esp. rooms without ceilings so the Ship could do the bombing run.On top of this the Ship Missile function could occasionally be used in combat situations, and this was usually funny easter egg effects, like instantly destroying what would otherwise be a small boss or higher tier enemy fight. Cont.
>>727702545And the second one is a shitty Banjo-Kazooie nuts and bolts ripoff so you have to build ships and structures to solve copy-pasted uninspired missions.
>>727701230alright so you got zero suit samus and this random ass charizard......
Go all in on verticality, fully use the 3D space. maybe give her a jetpack
>>727705814No, it's a particularly interesting game. Samus gets a chrono suit which allows her to switch between two timelines. One where the aliens and their civilization evolved one way, and another a different way. Alternating between the two is set up in a manner similar to a branching dialogue choice. In one timeline the aliens are peaceful and are highly regimented, strictly adhering to the code of law. In the other is a chaotic space where violence is the solution to all problems. Because Samus is without the varia suit she doesn't feel like a tank, and the hostility of the one timeline is a constant oppressive feature. This is to say nothing of the other abilities you get, so like I say it's pretty interesting and inspired.
>>727701230it dosent need much, just do vertical, interconnected, tight maze like world, not open slop set pieces.
My dream game would be inspired by Metroid Prime, I've thought a lot about it and I've realized it would be pretty hard to make a game like it. A lot of powers and puzzles come from the morph ball and obviously you can't just copy it, it's very specific.Thinking about it, Axiom Verge has the drone, Medievil 2 has the head on the hand, in Singularity there is 1 single optional puzzle where you can control a grenade ball and move it inside a small labyrinth, Half-Life 2 has physics puzzles. An ok power could be mind controling enemies and using their special powers/abilities.
>>727705771On to Suits>Varia Suit/Phazon Suit/Dark Suit/Light Suit/PED Suit/Hazard ShieldThese suits and upgrades all have overlapping functions. The Varia Suit, like in Super, protects Samus from extreme heat zones. The Phazon Suit allows Samus to walk through Phazon radiation zones. In Prime 2 the Dark Suit protects Samus from the caustic Dark World atmosphere. It's interesting to note that it doesn't make Samus immune to the Dark World, just significantly mitigates the damage you take when not in safe zones. The Light Suit fully protects Samus as the end game suit. The Light Suit also gives Samus access to the inter-temple Light Beam teleporter system, and allows her to travel through certain light beams into hidden rooms. The PED suit, in addition to giving Samus the Hypermode (which frankly isn't so worth talking about IMO - most of the Hyper Mode abilities are just straigth up damage upgrades to Samus' other abilities) allows Samus to walk through pools of Phazon without taking damage and instead gaining E-Tank energy when standing in Phazon. The Hazard Shield in Prime 3 lets Samus walk through the Pirate Homeworld's acid rain, and walk though pools of lava on Bryyo. It's worth noting that, despite these being 5 different suit upgrades with multiple different effects on paper, functionally, they all do essentially the same thing: which is protect Samus from some kind of room based elemental damage. There are, therefore, plenty of ways to iterate on this. You could make a game where Samus needs a rubber suit to protect her from electrical shocks. You could make a game where Samus needs a heated suit upgrade to protect her from extreme cold. You could make a game where Samus needs some kind of "Timeline Stabilization Suit" to explore a zone where time distortions would otherwise harm her. On a planet that rains liquid cement, Samus could need some kind of slickness generating suit to allow her free movement in the cement rain Cont.
>>727707046>Gravity Suit/Gravity Booster/Hazard ShieldIn Prime 1 the Gravity suit adjusts Samus' slow underwater movement speed and increased weight, so that she moves like she does on land when in water (much faster/freer). It also removes a foggy effect, allowing Samus to see clearly underwater. The Gravity Booster in Prime 2 has the same effects as the Gravity Suit, but with the added bonus of upgrading Samus' double jump into a vertical hover while she's underwater. There are no underwater sections in Prime 3, but the Hazard Shield allows Samus to move freely in lava, when she would otherwise be slowed. Cont.
>>727707370So, let's do an experiment: What are all the most interesting versions of the upgrades from each game?This will be somewhat subjective but:>Dark BeamIt's a fun twist on the Ice Beam, with it's Dark Energy fiction context. >Nova BeamA very underrated take on the Wave Beam/Annihilator Beam, given how it's used in combat: fictionally it's used in Space Pirate precision energy drills, which is why it has a precision sniper function when paired with Prime 3's X-Ray visor. Honorable Mention to the Annihilator Beam for its "sound waves" fiction context. Also its tracking shots are nice.>Prime 3 Plasma BeamFunctionally the Prime 1 and 3 Plasma Beams and the Light Beam are basically the same, but the Prime 3 Plasma Beam has the welding function. I love little gadgety sub-functions like this. Light Beam also gets honorable mention for being aggressively cool visually. >Psychic Scan VisorFrankly, I don't like the way it combines the function of the Scan Visor and the Prime 1 X-Ray Visor, while all other visors have been cut. But, the idea of giving the Scan Visor more functions is interesting. It could be interesting to, in the way Prime 3 stacks beam upgrades similar to Super Metroid, a new Prime game could stack functionalities onto the scan visor. However, there should also be a specialized visor that's used in combat. Thermal Visor in combat with cloaked enemies is such a cool and classic sci-fi thing. >Echo VisorWhile it doesn't exactly play out this way in gameplay, visually it looks like Sonar. This is so fucking cool, and honestly a ton of untapped potential for both combat and puzzle solving. >Prime 3 X-Ray VisorAgain, in addition to its layered functions (works both as Thermal and Prime 1 X-Ray) it's useful in combat for sniping weak points. This kind of fun tricky nuance is what these games need.Going to skip some items which are staples.Cont.
>>727708348>Prime 3 electro grappleAgain, a great multi function tool. Useful for puzzles and for combat. >Ship MissilesFrankly, this is an interesting twist on the Power Bombs. I think an ideal Metroid Prime game would have power bombs, but being able to command Samus' ship to do bombing runs is a fun ability. This is something that could be baked into the Scan Visor.>Dark SuitI think from a game design perspective, the Dark Suit is the most interesting take on the Varia Suit concept, because it's not complete immunity. I like the idea of survival struggle zones like the Dark World, where you have to move between safe zones. This is the most interesting thing to me from a gameplay perspective when it comes to Varia suit variants. Additionally, the Light Suit, allowing Samus the ability to teleport through light beams is an interesting thing to further explore. >Gravity BoosterIs it any question? The hover nozzle type ability is worth exploring further.Cont.
>>727701230What about a Metroid Prime game that takes place on an asteroid or a station inside an asteroid belt? I think it would be cool to have a game that is just like the opening of Prime 1.
>>727708348>>727709389Now, continuing with this thought experiment, what are some creative/original twists we could put on these items?>Ice Beam/Dark BeamWhat about a beam that controls time? Functionally these beams freeze enemies, but stopping them in time serves the same function. This opens up all sorts of possibilities with both story context and puzzles (Like TotK's time stop ability). The beam could also have an alternate fire mode that speeds up time, which could also be used for puzzle solving. Or how about this alternative?If you've been reading my autistic bullshit, I posted about a planet that rains cement. What if Samus had a liquid cement or liquid glue gun? This could be used like the ice beam to freeze enemies in place if you splatter them with enough goo, but a goo or cement gun could also be used to build platforms (actually I am stealing this from the game Shadow Complex). >Nova BeamThis is functionally the Wave beam, but I like the additional function it has as a sniper. So what if Samus had some sort of Sniper beam, and some sort of magnification visor: some of the puzzles in the game could involve lining up very precise or precisely timed shots. On top of this, the Prime 4 Psychic Charge Beam guided beam feature is neat - what if this was made more difficult? What if Samus had, say guided missiles that flew through the environment in real time, and puzzles involved flying them through gauntlets and dodging moving obstacles in real time? Not a very creative twist on the Psychic Charge Beam idea, but the way those were implemented could be more challenging. Cont.
>>727701230Minimal artifact hunt for first ending. Getting the rest of the artifact for another ending is a very obscure set of puzzles requiring knowledge from scanning and getting to know systems in detail like enemy behaviors and stuff that re-contextualizes the game a little.Prime 3 x-ray and nova beam combat options but available earlier.Combat could have some interesting stuff going on, like freezing enemies for a breathing room instead of killing, ice wall or molten pool for crowd control. Beam switching on the fly to make use of those options. Way more environmental kills to have player pay attention. Morphball mid combat for confusing the enemies, slipping away from groups and circling behind them. Limbic damage system for enemies should be common.Speed booster might need to sit this one out once again.Backtrack design from Prime 2 is a decent compromise but needs way more agency instead of pushing you into an elevator like Dread.Use navigation points of reference like from software does where you can see locations far away, when possible.Instead of hint system simply make the progression less rigid. Optional upgrades like prime 1 and prime 2 should be in the game.
>>727709584I like that idea a lot actually. You could approach level design like Mario Galaxy's planetoids, where Gravity and orientation is a factor to think about, and could use the Ship as a transport system. Set it in an Asteroid Field and you could fly between mulitple asteroids. >>727710131Going to skip around some more>Prime 3 Plasma BeamThe welding function is under explored. What if Samus gains some kind of heat producing beam or weapon with a variable heat mode? At its highest setting it evaporates water into steam, at a low setting it will melt ice into room temperature water. There are all kinds of puzzles you could design around this, especially if you combined it with an Ice Beam or some kind of Time Manipulation powers. >Echo VisorSonar and sound powers are an under explored ability. But sound isn't the only thing that moves in waves. You could have something like, say, a trigonometry visor that calculates the trajectory of physics projectiles for you, so you have to figure out the correct angle to bounce things off of walls and hit objects hidden in unreachable places. You could make up something entirely fictional, like some kind of "Ultra Light Waves" which are only perceptible with a certain visor, and which reflect off of objects in a way that isn't normally perceptible. Or, if it aint' broke: Just return to the sound wave concept and fully explore it. So much could be done with sound generation, pitch, rhythm, and so on: you could have whole puzzles centered around the basics of music theory. >Gravity BoosterSo in Prime 2 Samus gets a hover ability but only under water. What if she gets a hover ability above water too?In Super Metroid Samus gets the Space Jump which functionally allows her to fly. It also renders both the Wall Jump and Grapple Beam almost obselete because of how useful it is. In a Prime game, as an end game upgrade, Samus could jump twice, and then a third press and hold of the jump button could fly.
I think Ill leave it at this for now. I'll come back to the thread in a little bit and if it's still a fun thread I'll write some more. I do think if you start with a really solid stable of fun items and abilities, the map design would trickle down from there. Also, Story-wise, it'd be funny to have Samus start at some kind of Galactic marketplace, selling parts of her suit and upgrades she got on her last mission for money. Or maybe have that at the end as a way to explain how she ends up with just her Varia Suit/Power Beam/Missiles/Morph Ball again. I like to imagine Samus as something of a thrill seeker in the Galactic community, but not exactly living a stable life, so she looks for ways to make money however she can, even if it means selling valuable suit upgrades. >>727710535I'd go as far as to say have no Artifact Hunt, or, if you have one, have it optional for extras only. > ice wall or molten pool for crowd control.Yes, I like those ideas a lot.
>>727711323>I'd go as far as to say have no Artifact HuntAt the very least basic temple keys in MP2 were fine and made the exploring seem less aimless, so there should be a whole range of options to use it as a template for a fixed artifact hunt.
>>727711640I'm a believer in Super Metroid as the Platonic Ideal of a Metroid game, and in that game, progression was an issue of realizing what your new item could do for you in old areas you couldn't fully explore. For the modern audience, I guess you could also include a hint system like in the Prime games, but I'd like to disregard the modern audience in this hypothetical. Dark Souls games get along fine without hints so idk why Metroid needs that kind of hint and railroading systems. Prime 3 definitely had the most painless artifact hunt, where you got most of the energy cells you needed in the course of regular play, they just hand them to you ... and you didn't need all of the energy cells to get through the Valhalla to get the Leviathan access code. The extra energy cells only gave access to a few extra items.
>>727701230Alright there's a new extinct alien race called the Goobergaxians and you're the chosen one according to their prophecy, now go solve a series of puzzles they laid out for you to prove yourself. Oh and you lose all your powers at the start and have to find them again while also getting some Goobergaxian tech to solve some puzzles.
>>727712041Prime has some differences though. It's way slower, more busy visually on top of navigating in 3d so it's easy to get lost and come across the one place that lets you progress much much later. I love Super, but I think that doesn't work for Prime.
>>727701230Just remake Chronos vn and add 3D gameplay.
Some rough ideas>set in an abandoned Space Pirate base in an icy asteroid belt. Half the asteroid belt is in the light of a nearby star. The other side is totally dark. >temperature is a major part of the game, both when it comes to theme and puzzle solving. Samus must face both extreme heat and extreme deadly cold. >No Ice Beam this game: temperatures are so naturally cold that things freeze on their own. For example, Space Pirates wear space suits that protect them from the cold, but if you shoot a weak point it deactivates their suits heating system, leaving them to freeze in a matter of seconds. Samus could get a water blaster power up, which also functions to create ice. This can be used to create platforms and freeze enemies. >Power Beam gets a variable heat upgrade. At its highest setting, it instantly vaporizes water and ice into steam. At a low setting, it will melt ice into water. >As a setting the Space Pirate base will explore the Space Pirates. They're not just a single race of aliens, "Space Pirates" are a generic term for outlaws used by the Federation, and are comprised of many alien races. The base could explore the clash of many different alien cultures co-existing, with the flavor of a Bazaar or trading center. It'll be abandoned, so no need for NPCs, but Samus could approach the situation like a detective, trying to discover what happened. >Samus can fly her ship between several asteroids which have different parts of the base. >>727712862Desu I think the Prime formula would be improved by bringing it closer to Super desu
>>727713856Doesn't Prime 1 do pretty much that except for the artifact hunt, which in its case it's an integrated boss hunt? I personally didn't like it that much, but if the world design was immaculate (which is hard to do) then it would be great indeed without any temple keys needed to stick everything together.
>>727715114>if the world design was immaculateThis is the trick honestly. That's the defining feature of Super Metroid to me. Of course, it must be pretty hard to do, because the only games in the series that really tried for the Super style map design after Super, were Prime 1 and Dread.
>>727713856>Prime formula would be improved by bringing it closer to SuperI think to do this it's best to just start with a third person game. Other M was a fuck up but third person metroid has a lot of potential
>>727702545Samus isn't a treasure hunter. She's hunts bounties.
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>>727701230Upgrades are chosen in a partly non-linear fashion, similar to how certain augments in Deus Ex allowed you to choose between a selection. This lets you tackle certain areas of the world in a different order, with areas having varients in appearance, layout, and enemy placement depending on what you explore first. Hire me Nintendo.
