Smogon usage based tier updates
>>56516472I unironically care about the fanfic meta
>>56516472>Smogonbird is now RUNU is fucked. Smogonbird holds that tier together like Scizor holds UU together and Lando holds OU together.
>>56516472>Heatran dropped out of OUHas powercreep gone too far?
>>56516482Yes, but Heatran is mostly being pressed by the million Ground types in OU this gen.
>>56516472>4 stall Pokemon drop out of OU simultaneously>/vp/ still thinks Smogon only bans things to support stall
>>56516482How was Milotic in PU? Holy shit.
>>56516509You're questioning Milotic in PU and not Heracross, Staraptor, and Bronzong?
>>56516472Meowscarada is about to drop out of OU. I hope it does right before the generation ends so catfags finish the gen in UU.
>>56516520Did the croc drop?
>>56516472Out of curiosity, where does the 4.52% cutoff come from?Seems incredibly arbitrary from the outside but I assume there's a reason for it.
>>56516521Croc and duck are both UU alongside snake and frog.
ZapdosCHADS winning yet again
>>56516533We're so back.
>>56516472>clodsire in UUWhat the fuck happened
>>56516544Stall fell off hard because hyper offense threats were banned and the meta stabilized. The usual.Rain also fell off so its other niche isn't important either
>>56516520Oh yeah it's definitely dropping, guess the rabbit was the true king of the type changers
>45% of OU mons are from gen 9 now
Remember when Staraptor was eternally BL?
Jesus fuck UU just got raped
>>56516472I know Delphox has never been good, but I remember having a fun time using it a scarfer with Trick to fuck stall back in gen 7 OU, holy shit does it hurt me to see the poor thing drop this low, and I can't believe 3 of my other favorites in Heracross, Staraptor and G.Slowbro fell so hard as well, this is fucking bleak dude, just fucking bleak.
tick tockRU hungers
>>56516472>bliss torkal ninetails fellI’m still using all of those regularly lol
>>56516472HELLFROG NOOOOOO also all of that shit is too strong for ZU, except for maybe ear-hair fox. t. One of the 10 ZU ladder players
>>56516581She's better in VGC now that the legionaries and paradox pokemon are out and she can spam expanding force.
>>56516552Court Change is just that good in a post-Gholdengo world.
>>56516553booster shit is over tuned, and flatly just too good when you can terra into a sweep on top of the free boost on switch in. If it comes back it needs to be a 1.2x boost, max.Yes, even to speed.
ribombee seems like it could be strong in ru. i might make a specs volcanion team with ribombee and see how it goes. i know araquanid and galvantula were already legal but they can't stun spore
>>56516608Nah, I think it being a 1.3x boost is fine so long as it's a 1.3x boost for speed as well.
>>56516605It's okay, we'll be suspect testing Raging Bolt or Wellspring next
>>56516529Why is Mandibuzz so low
>>56516617I don't think Ogerpon (wet) will get banned, but Raging Bolt is certainly possible. If it gets banned, Kingambit might finally end up being banned.
>>56516619all defensive mons are eating shit in a world with free adaptability boosting/type changes out of vulnerabilities.Gen 9 is an offense gen.
>>56516625They will never touch Ghold or Gambit
>>56516637>Great Tusk>Great tusk
Let us pause in life’s pleasures and count its many tearsWhile we all sup sorrow with UU:There’s a song that will linger forever in our ears;Oh! Hard Times, come again no more.
>>56516472>Blissey Clodsire and Skarmory all drop at the same timekek, what killed stall this time?
>>56516637Great Tusk so good its number 1 and 2
>>56516643Gouging Fire and Kyurem got banned so standard offense is on the rise over hyper offense. Standard offense is really good against stall.
>>56516642Oh nonono lugiakeks???
>>56516653>Ho-Oh is in 7th place>Lugis is in 50th
>>56516476i don't care about neither
smogon is run by trannies and pedos
>>56516655Even in Ubers UU it's dogshit. Lugia will be OU by Gen 11.
>>56516665Ubers UU is a thing?
>>56516666It's new for this gen.
>>56516666CHECKEDYes, it's been around for over a year now. It was created due to all the Pokemon Smogon had banned to Ubers that couldn't possibly be viable in a tier that allows Miraidon, Zacian-C, Koraidon, Kyogre, and Arceus-N.
>>56516665I will quit if we start dropping box legends down to OU. Zamazenta is already too much, but it has to stay because those dumb apes didn't ban Kingambit.
>>56516520CatGODs... smoggies are making fun of us... they wouldn't listen to us when we said Grass was a good type...
>>56516666Ubers got way too large with too many "shitmons" by Uber standards.
>>56516683The only reason I like Zamazenta is because it drops a big stinky dog turd on Kingambit's head.
>>56516683kyurem-black was OU for three solid generations already dipshit
>>56516637>Top 17 DarkraiWhere's that faggot who said it wasn't washed?
>>56516670>>56516676>>56516689Damn I never really paid attention to Ubers since I don't play it I didn't realize they're actually splitting Ubers into multiple tiers.
How the hell is Tinkaton OU?
>>56516702There are still some people asking for it to be suspect tested. Pretty much all of them are Fairy-fags mad that it hits them with fat Sludge Bombs. Tinkaton might be rising to OU in a couple of months if Darkrai doesn't go since it's the best Fairy that doesn't eat shit to Sludge Bomb.
>>56516666just wait until you hear about Ubers RU
>>56516642lmao
>>56516705tbf they split Ubers back in like gen 7, Anything Goes (AG) was the tier above ubers that was solely just mega rayquaza
>>56516707It's not. Not yet. >howDarkraiZamazentaIron Valiant
How is usage determined? Is it a culmination of the time from the last tier shift, or just a snapshot right at the end of the month?
>>56516714I guess but I don't really consider AG a real tier
>>56516712Fucking KEK
People still care about compfaggotry?
>>56516520>>56516529Gen 9 Starter sisters......
>>56516729>people care about the real gameplayYes, go mash A to piss easy elite fours now and your "exploration" lmao
>>56516712Typoo bros...
>>56516722When a meta slows down (a couple of months after the last DLC/3rd version), it goes to a 3 month tier shift. You have to have a cumulative usage of >4.53% for 3 months straight to make it into the tier. Granted, this is cumulative, so if you have 60% usage in the first month and 0.1% usage in the 2nd and 3rd months you'll still make it into OU.
>>56516637Landorus was a mistake and so is Finchinator.
>>56516709That's not a thing yet, but it should be so Lugia can be good somewhere.
>>56516745Landorus is the least degenerate Pokemon in the top 10.
>>56516696And when they finally learned some moves that were worth a damn (it didn't have dragon dance, icicle spear, or freeze dry until gen 8), both were exiled to ubers. Kyurem's movepool was a colossal failure on Game Freak's part. Give Kyurem-B icicle crash and earthquake, and it would've never been even considered for OU in the first place.
>>56516745I don't get the hate for Lando. Is it just because he's ugly?
>>56516772Casuals hate legendary pokemon in general. It's why they love Reg H so much.
>>56516637why did people keep saying Landorus fell off?
>>56516733staring at tier lists isn't gameplay
>>56516778It was literally 0.06% usage away from falling from OU when it first got added back in. If only 2000 fewer people had used it it would've been UU.
>>56516778Because it did and they're keeping it artificially relevant by arbitrarily banning everything stronger than it.
>>56516780Do you think people have a tier list pulled up in another tab when they're playing Smogon?
>>56516784Great Tusk is literally the #1 Pokemon in OU and hasn't been suspected or even mentioned for a suspect test this whole generation.
>>56516778Because its usage tanked at first after losing its support moves and now had to compete with Great Tusk. But then people realized it's still a ground flier with intimidate, u-turn, and immediate offensive presence, so its usage climbed back up to the top.
>>56516788It’s cute that you think anyone in this thread plays smogon.
>>56516733They can't, they're too busy glitching through the ground while they were trying to hatch an egg.
>>56516801>But then they banned over a dozen Pokemon stronger than Landorus so people realized they should still use Landorusftfy
>>56516804they didnt ban great tusk though
>>56516804>Over a dozenLiterally 3 Pokemon>stronger than LandorusTerapagos, Zamazenta-C, and Gouging Fire deserved the ban thoughbeit.
>>56516810>Literally 3 Pokemonsure smogtard
>>56516712>>56516737That’s just Game Freak’s plan. Typhlosion was created during game freak’s time Wacky Deli phase out of spite
>>56516835Those were all banned before Landorus-T came back
>>56516850Gliscor, Sneasler, Roaring Moon, Baxcalibur, and Ursaluna weren’t.
>>56516482Blame the fanfic meta's retarded tier cut-off change back in gen 8. If it was still 3,41% then Heatran would be OU right now, see >>56516520.
>>56516862Lando came back in DLC2 and those 5 were banned during the DLC1 meta.
>>56516873Lando was around as soon as Bank became compatible with SV, dumbassio.
>>56516835Which ones didn't deserve it?
>>56516803Fucking kek this fucking game man
>>56516894GLiscor was a knee jerk reaction and he was unbanned. Volcarona needs to be freed from Finchinators tyranny
>>56516917>Volcarona needs to be freed from Finchinators tyrannyBAN TERA FIRST FFS. FUCK THIS GARBAGE, GAME SACKING MECHANIC.
>>56516917Gliscor is fucking gay
>>56516927just ban tera blast already, its an easy fix
>>56516665how would (You) fix Lugia, anons?
>>56516942Banning tera also neuters Kingambit.
>>56516970by playing the actual game instead of fanfic garbage
>>56516975GOOD
>>56516970>Aeroblast goes from 100 power/95 accuracy/5 pp to 110 power/100 accuracy/10 pp. It also resets the weather when used. >Now learns:DefogToxicDragon DanceSwords DanceNasty Plot>Silver Feather and Rainbow Feather are added in as held items for Lugia and Ho-oh respectively that boost their STABs by 20% and provides leftovers effect at the same time.
>>56516581Over at the real game she's one of the fastest Expanding Force users and actually does stuff
>>56516867Heatranny is an ugly shitmon that would fall at some point even if that cutoff was kept. See >>56516486
>>56516977>banned in Battle Stadium >banned in Battle Tower if that ever returns>utter garbage whenever it's legal in doublesAt best it's useful if you want to fuck around with Legendaries for post-game rematches.
>>56516970Remove Necrozma Dusk ManeLugia was great up until Necrozma became the new Great Wall making Lugia and Giratina outclassed.
>>56516997even with those items in the game lugia would just run boots
>>56517008Showdown is the real game. Nu-Pokemon is fanfic by Game Freak.
>>56517096I dunno, Lugia could get some pretty niche use out of it since leftovers will allow it to regain Multiscale after being chipped. Getting some offensive use out of it also doesn't hurt if it gets some decent setup options and Aeroblast is buffed to be worth using. The point is more to make Lugia versatile. You have to worry about it setting up as an offensive variant or it being the supreme support Pokemon.
>>56516628Those are the two biggest offendersHo the fuck defenders those two?
>>56516800great tusk is unironically necessary for the metagame and if you think otherwise you are retarded. there is a reason it tops the usage charts.
>>56516472>Heatran and Skarmory both drop to UULokix bros... is it over?
>>56517615There's no way Heatran isn't getting quickbanned RIGHT
>>56517644Its a tier where staraptor is STILL bannedThat toad is getting banned yesterday!
>>56517603Smogon should just mod Lando to give it back Defog and then ban Great Tusk.
>>56517652Staraptor is in NU hombre. It fell from UU and then it fell from RU and then it fell from NU before finally rising back up to NU literally today.
>>56517644Weavile seems a lot scarier, IMO. It doesn't really have many checks right now.
>>56517644Heatrannies when Earthquake
>>56517722It has plenty of checks. Namely Lokix, Keldeo, Harcanine, and especially Quaquaval. In fact, Quaquaval might be one of the best checks to it since it can come in for free, click Aqua Step, and begin the snowball.
>>56517754I just calced it, and Weavile has just about a 100% chance of 2HKO'ing Quaquaval with a Triple Axel into an Ice Shard after a Swords Dance. It has to hit all 3 hits on Triple Axel, but if it does it's a guaranteed OHKO.We might see Quaquaval start running some Def EVs to live Weavile more consistently.
>>56516600>>56517008I think it's time for me to become a VGCkek.>>56516745Landorus is the fairest of all, he alone keeps the meta healthy, without him we would all be lost, a casual would never understand his sheer magnificence.
>>56517866This is actually true, though. Twin immunities, small but potent move pool that makes it hard for Lando to surprise you, decent but not excessive bulk, no recovery so he can be worn down, and high but not excessive attack, especially considering he only has 91 base speed.Lando-T was never overpowered (in singles).
>>56517949I see that you've never been hit with a Hammer Arm or Scorching Sand from Lando, then.
>>56517953Hammer Arm is a terrible move. 90% accuracy and it lowers your speed if you connect it for only 100 base power. Lando has only started running Scorching Sands/Earth Power recently because its moveset got crippled. No more Explosion, Defog, Knock Off, or Toxic.
>>56516707Role compression supportmon/potential blanket check that sets up Rocks, TWave, and Encores. Gigaton Hammer and Knock Off makes it not completely passive.
>>56518068Too bad it's Fairy type. I have a personal vendetta against the type as a whole and have vowed to never use a Fairy type Pokemon or move.
Gen 9 is so bad I miss Gen 8
>>56518135It's insane that Bisharp was OU only one generation ago
>>56516472>alotales, torkoal and ribombee RUFuck, webs, sun and hail are dead
>>56518226>it’s insane that they banned dozens of pokemon better than bisharpnot really
>>56518240Yawnbitch...
>>56516642Kek love the ubers top. 9 box legends and Glimmora
>>56518276>Arceus>Calyrex-I>Box legends
>>56518316stat wise
>>56517525it'd take 4 turns of staying in after switching into rocks to get back to multiscale lol. i guess if next gen's ubers ends up being much MUCH slower paced it could work but ubers rn is dominated by ho and there's not much removal
>>56518347You'd still need to use Recover to heal off Stealth Rocks, but leftovers chip healing would allow it to heal off U-turns.
>>56516707>Stealth Rock not blocked by Hatterene>Twave can hit Garganaci and Gholdengo>Best Darkrai Check>Great Special Bulk>Great Defensive typing>Solid Speed>High Damage Output with Gigaton Hammer or Pseudo Explosion Steel Beam>Knock Off.>Can Tera defensively once Darkrai is taken care of to maximize its defensive potential.It'll probably eat shit once they ban Darkrai, but it's a fantastic mon specifically for it, and slightly above average otherwise.
>>56516707>>56516835
I hate gen 9 so much dude, if the fucking voting and decisions weren't controlled by an ugly fucking kike who has no clue what he is doing and has proven in the past he is a fickle manchild who's opinions aren't worth shit, in any sane format Kingambit would have been banned on the first week of the game, Goldengo would probably follow suit not too far after, but no, we live in this absolute fucking hell, Tera is broken as fuck and makes way too many Pokemon effectively impossible to check, booster energy is absolute fucking aids and makes many already busted Pokemon even more retarded, fucking Zamazenta dropped to OU and was allowed to stay because Kingambit and is that fucking dominant, several Pokemon get banned because of all the above or because Finch got butthurt over nothing and ate shit during a tournament due to his own incompetence. It's fucking hellish, things are so bad that gen 8 despite being complete and utter shit seems like a better format by comparison.
>hmm I want to watch a video about RBY competitive >TRANNY >TRANNY>TRANNY
>>56518471Darkrai isn't going to be banned. It doesn't have an ability and all it can do is either run a Scarf set or a Nasty Plot set. Sure, it has high SpA, but its main STAB is 80 base power Dark Pulse. It's effectively just the special version of Kartana. High stats, fast, decently bulky, but held back by poor BP moves.
>>56518516It's literally just Big Yellow and his troon friend.
all this smogon shit would be fixed if they just banned that fucking tera gimmick
>>56518552They're not going to ban Tera. They just want the generation to be over so Gen 9 can be the "Tera generation" for posterity. That's the identity of the gen for SPL tours. Just like Gen 5 is the Weather Wars gen, Gen 2, 4, and 6 are the stall gens, Gen 3 is the skill-based gen, and Gen 1 is the Normal Type gen.
>>56517008I've played the real games and they're 6v6 singles since RBY (the Orrekino notwithstanding)
>>56518316Arceus is a box legend. Calyrex is a DLC box legend
>>56518552They got so much shit from banning dynamax in Gen 8 they want to preserve the identity behind this one
>>56516476>skarmbliss>weavile>heatranbad day to be a gen 4 meta fan
>>56518562So what is gen 8’s identity since they banned dynamax?
>>56518598a better dex and no paradox made it way better.
>>56518598The gen that was so imbalanced they had to ban the primary gimmick.
>>56518598A case study on why switch moves (U-turn, teleport, etc.) and regenerator are bad for the game.
>>56518562So what's the identity of Gens 7 and 8?>>56518629Pivot moves are fine, and arguably an essential part of Smogon, but Regenerator is fucktardedly broken.
>>565186567 is the last gen where all the Pokemon are in. And it’s the only gen where you can use 2 gimmicks.
>>56518658megas are not a gimmick
>>56518658Call me crazy but I actually liked Z moves
>>56518756They exist to shill CHARIZARD, ergo they are a gimmick
>>56516476based
>>56516637
>>56518629>A case study on why 6v6 (a clown format only fanfic uses) is bad for the gameftfy
>>56518514I love bulky sd tera fairy Kingambit shits so busted
>>56516520grassy Rillaboom cock too strong
>>56516712JohtoDIVAS.....
>>56516845But muh taiwan earthquake :(((
>>56518756>Stone + Key item = Anime super transformation >Crystal + Key item = Anime super move Both are gimmicky shit
>>56518656>and arguably an essential part of SmogonPart of what makes gen 3 so good is that you have to commit to a switch for all but 2-3 mons.
>>56518963It's one of the things holding it back. Gen 4 is better for having U-turn, but the addition of Stealth Rocks slows the game down too much since it's in that uncomfortable spot where offense isn't oppressive enough to break past defense with all the chip damage from sand, spikes, and stealth rocks. A rocksless Gen 4 is the perfect meta.
>>56519107randbats really is the best formatit has by far the lowest skill floor, but also the highest skill ceilingliterally anyone can enjoy it
>>56519114as someone who's topped the randbats ladder many times 99% of the ladder is shit, even in the top 100. still fun tho
>>56519107randomslop
>>56518820Verlinigger still replying the thread down after 200 replies.Lmao imagine being this mindbroken
Remove genie
>>56519593>>56518552this>>56519386hi wolfey
>>56516482Heatran is a mix of some powercreep but mostly just being in a really fucking hostile meta for it.
>>56519832It fell off earlier this gen already and came back.
>>56516476>OU usage ranking>Tier changesThe only two things that matter.
>>56518516>>56518542>RBY>competitive>why are the only 2 people who play it autistsAnons, I have some news for you.
>>56519976The tranny rate for RBY is disproportionately high compared to all the other old metas. You don't see even half as many trannies into GSC or ADV. And especially not DPP or BW2.
LET CHOMP BACK INTO UU PLEASE
>>56520095Yes, but why are you using a touhou slop image on a pokemon board.
>>56520127>Touhou>Slop
>>56520125Please don't. Garchomp needs to make it into OU proper by the end of the gen.
>>56520163>>56520125Garchomp needs a real ability. Its stats and move pool are above average, its type is below average, but its got one of the worst set of abilities in OU.A better Fire type move wouldn't hurt either.
>>56520237HE'S FINE FOR UU PLEASE HE HASN'T DONE ANYTHING WRONG IM SICK OF EXCADRILL I DON'T WANT TO DEAL WITH HEATRANNY PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE
>>56520095Fine, I'll spoonfeed you. MTF Trannies these days are almost always autistic autogynephiles. Even the FTMs are usually autistic but that's kind of another topic. Gen 1 was never designed for competitive play because it was an experimental low budget passion project and they weren't even sure it was going to sell. The mechanics are functional as a single player RPG but they're very buggy and unbalanced and they'd be a total meme in competitive. The PvP battle feature was an afterthought because "why not." So basically... the only people who'd be interested in playing it *competitively* are mega autists, the only people you see playing these obscure meme games with shit competitive mechanics. And guess what? The more mega autistic an activity is, the more trannies you'll see doing it. Weird attracts weird and so forth.>>56520157Getting a little off topic here but Touhou is slop. At least it's cute slop, I guess.
>>56520237>below average typeFuck no. It has great resistances and solid STAB coverage.And if there is a Powerhouse in need of an ability buff, it’s Metagross.Clear Body is only alright at best and Light Metal is detrimental to Metagross.
>>56516637Tink is in OU? How did it get up? When it released everyone was saying that its wasted potential because of its low stats and it'll be stuck in UU?
>>56520380Ground/Dragon only has 3 resistances and 1 immunity. Meanwhile it's weak to the strongest type in the game (Fairy) and has a crippling weakness to Ice in a generation where anyone can have access to Ice through Tera Blast. Not to mention it's also weak to Dragon which is extra common this gen thanks to Dragapult, Raging Bolt, Walking Wake, Dragonite, and Roaring Moon being everywhere.It doesn't help that it can't hit Enamorus at all with either of its STABs. The Fairy dominance has made Dragon types without access to strong Steel/Poison type options a lot worse.
>>56520399Mold Breaker is pretty good at dealing with Garganacl, Gholdengo, and Hatterene. It can status them when otherwise they're immune. It's also one of the best Darkrai counters since Darkrai's 3 moves (Ice Beam, Dark Pulse, Sludge Bomb) can't hit Stinkaton for even neutral damage.Basically, it's an anti-meta pick.
>>56520399Tinkaton isn't actually OU yet. It only started rising up in popularity after Gouging Fire got gouged out of OU. It didn't meet the requisite >4.53% usage rate for 3 months.
>>56520413>Bro Garchomp ONLY resists Fire, Rock, and is immune to Electric!Yeah Garchomp is weak to Fairy and especially to Ice, but it’s not that bad as to offset the resistances it has and how well Ground covers Dragon.Really Garchomp’s biggest issue is competition. There are several other Ground types it competes with in OU and all of which have better tools.
Spidopsbros, we finally made itIt only took banning an arbitrary selection of nearly 1000 pokemon to do it
>>56520899Krookodile, Glowking, and Starmie will never be in the same tier as those other jobbers until they all fall down to untiered due to power creep.>Hatterene>11th place with 22%
>>56520899Link to the 'cord?
>>56520899So is this the new strawman you're going to go with for months?
>>56520668There's not a lot of Fire, Electric, Poison, or Rock types in OU at the moment. Meanwhile Ice, Fairy, and Dragon type attacks are everywhere.
>>56519020>A rocksless Gen 4 is the perfect meta.NIGGA IT'S THE ONLY THING HOLDING GYARADOS BACK
>>56521169You mean other than Jirachi, right?
>>56521172Do you have any idea how easy it is for DPP Gyarados to grab a second boost when rocks are gone? You're not beating it with sarf 'rachi.
>>56520399>how did [pokemon] become [arbitrary fanfic tier] when everything better than [pokemon] got banned from [arbitrary fanfic tier]?
>>56521193Hi verlis
>>56521208Hi finchinator
>>56521181Just use TWave
>>56521339Why are we banning A rank Pokemon before S or S- actually
>>56521373Someone on the council masturbates to Kingambit so she has to stay. Zamazenta is the only thing keeping Kingambit balanced so he has to stay.
>>56521373Both gholdengo and kingambit have been an issue from the beginning, it's ridiculous how much the council has protected them
>>56516712ou is gonna steal lokix from uu
>>56521448No you're not, bitch. Lokix isn't leaving UU.
>>56521474>Slow>Frail>Mixed AttackerI wonder
>>56521476crawdaunt
>>56521491
>>56521494>solid mid-tierthanks for proving my point
>>56521339lando shouldn't be in s- and now that kyurem is gone gliscor and wogerpon should be there.
>>56521501RU is low tier.
>>56516637The fact that valiant is lower than moth makes no sense to me. Shitmazenta also needs to fucking go it's the cheapest mon in the tier
>>56521757>Shitmazenta also needs to fucking go it's the cheapest mon in the tierJust use a special attacker
>>56521296By the time Gyarados is in play, he would already know if your 'rachi is bulky or scarf as you have already switched the former in at least twice to check other mons. All he needs to do is attack at +1 to KO your chipped answer with either waterfall or earthquake.This is not 2010 anymore. When Gyarados comes out, the game is usually over.
>>56521655>in gen9babe do you even play the game
>>56516642Bisharp being NU makes no fucking sense to me especially with Eviolite available. Been OU for the last 3 gens and now NU? Only staraptor faced a similar fall from grace
Sometimes I wonder if the Smogoons jerk off as they drop all these beloved Pokemon to lower tiers, while telling everyone “Your favorite Pokemon is SHIT!!!”
>>56522011Yes bro its a conspiracy against your favourite mon (drampa) which is actually very strong
>>56522011the whole point of smogon tiers is that you can use worse pokemon in tiers where they aren't actually that bad, you retard. your epic ingame bro dropping to nu is not an insult. it means that you can use it in nu and it's not complete shit because it's facing other nu mons.
>>56518411Lugia has a WHOLE lot of problems beyond hazards anon. It has a dogshit type for a defensive mon, too weak without boosts, it hates all status, lost status moves like Twave and Toxic who helped with it's passivity and its massive Tera-Hog. Lugia is dogshit this gen, no wonder people at smogon are calling for a suspect to drop it, maybe next gen if we get a whole lot of new broken threats.
>>56521980Tiering at the end of the day is based on usage, if nobody is using him in higher tiers he won't climb.Also power creep.
>56521380>sheRetard
>>56516552Cinderace wasn't hurt as bad with the Protean nerf since its monotyping gives it more versatility with what type it wants to change to while on the field. Plus, it's a big Gholdengo deterrent.
>>56521980Anon, this gen has seen Suicune, Mew, Infernape, Gyarados, Feraligatr, Cresselia, Mienshao, and fucking DEOXYS DEFENSE in NU. Gen 9 NU is strong enough to hang with Gen 6 OU.
>>56522043
>>56522044That's a good point. Cinderace can keep its Libero from proccing by using Pyro Ball until it needs to Court Change or U-turn.
>>56522043Hey, leave him alone, don't judge him for liking women with facial hair
>>56516486smoggies also banned everything that beats ground as well, but that also includes a few heatran counters since there were like 8 dickheads who countered everything including each other
>>56516745hate finch simple as
>>56516845jfc you're everywhere
>>56522358Flutter Mane and Iron Bundle are not balanced for OU.
>>56516476FPBPI don't care what some washed up YouTuber says.
>>56521980Bisharp is RU dummy, and it's one of the best Pokemon in the tier too>But that's so low!There are other former OU alumni like Hippowdon, Jirachi, Zapdos-Galar, Slowbro, Conkeldurr, Thundurus, and etc in the tier. Gen 9 RU is filled with Pokemon that were OU in Gen 7 and 8. That's how bad power creep has gotten.
>>56522772It's less power creep, and more that those Pokemon all lost their best moves. Hippo can't poison anything, Bisharp can't Knock, Thundurus can't HP Ice, etc. Base Zapdos is way too good to bother with the Galarian one, and UU is filled with too many fairies.
>>56522784What moves did Jirachi, Gengar, and Magnezone lose?
>>56522824Those are all falling for other reasons unrelated to power creep. Magnezone is less useful with so many ground-types running around and a relatively small number of steel-types that it can beat. Jirachi and Gengar have been on a downward trend since last gen and gen 7, respectively. Nasty Plot wasn't enough to make up for Gengar losing Levitate(and there being so many good ground-types)
>>56521757Zamazenta is kept because it switches into kingambit
>>56518816only 1 person in this image has surrounded himself with sex predators
>>56522899Verlisify?
>>56522065Cloyster would be OU if kings rock wasn't banned
>>56523715kings cock lol
Why work so hard to keep Kingambit and Gholdengo around anyway? Where was that effort for, say, Annihilape or Baxcalibur?
>>56521782Yeah a nice 25 on the switch from Darkrai is sure beating that 412 speed fatass. Moth has risen this much due to that mutt, it resists Body press and does about 40-45 if speed booster, too bad one Stone edge and it dies. Shitmazenta only stays due to Shitdos which is another kind of cancer, but that doesn't mean it's easy to beat. >>56522864Plenty of mons switch into it and beat it, on the contrary few can switch into shitmazenta and beat it. Gambit rarely beats me but the shit dog it's always a huge problem
>>56523715No it wouldn't. Cloyster is infamously hit or miss now because of speed and power creep. It can still run away with games if it gets lucky with a flinch, but that's a 41% chance, and that's way too inconsistent. Plus setting up is a chore when hazards are everywhere this gen and ways to remove them have disappeared.
>>56524427252 SpA Protosynthesis Walking Wake Hydro Steam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Zamazenta in Sun: 220-261 (56.7 - 67.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Zamazenta: 145-172 (37.3 - 44.3%) -- 99.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery252 SpA Gholdengo Make It Rain vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Zamazenta: 178-210 (45.8 - 54.1%) -- 3.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-Speed Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Zamazenta: 424-502 (109.2 - 129.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO252 SpA Iron Crown Future Sight vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Zamazenta: 332-392 (85.5 - 101%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO252+ SpA Tera Fairy Moltres-Galar Tera Blast (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Zamazenta: 212-252 (54.6 - 64.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
>>56520380>powerhouse
>>56524449>41%kek
>>56523715people were running blastoise over cloyster in RU until blastoise got bannedcloyster is currently C rank in RU and is considered unviable in higher tiers
>>56524555Fighting against King's Rock Cloyster does make you want to ACK! yourself.
>>56524592That's because Cloyster is Ice type and Blastoise is not.
>>56524705Don't let Yawny find out.
>>56524476>you just need to run this UU mon AND a Torkoal on the team to stop it, see how easy it is?>doesnt 2hko and dies to Crunch, shitdog rests afterwardswow>dies to two crunches + rocksACK>see this set EXISTS!! Deos is used for other things aside from suicide lead.. BECAUSE I SAID SO>switches to dark typenice one >Galar M is a hecking valid RU mon, you should use it.. yes it gets OHKOD after one ID but if you ALSO TERA that great mon... you know...Jokes aside, only Bold twave ghold reliably beats that piece of absolute shit, granted it doesnt crit or drop. Dpult revenges it alongside booster mons, but the former is weak as shit and the latter are a one time stopgap, which is unreliable. The shit dog is only kept in check by Moltres and shitdos and the very limited amount of braincells of who uses it
>>56524723Electric just needs moves, because it's too easily walled by one of the best types in the game.Weak bugs are fine because they're typically early-game and can find some use there until you come across better Pokemon.There's an abundance of bad ice-types, and you always have to wait until the end of the game to use them for some reason.
>>56524730>Walking Wake>UUYou can stop it with Specs Draco if you want to run WW outside of a Sun team.>doesnt 2hko and dies to Crunch, shitdog rests afterwards0 Atk Zamazenta Crunch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragapult: 170-202 (53.6 - 63.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKODragapult outspeeds Zam. You can also run the WoW + Hex set that completely counters Zamazenta.>dies to two crunches + rocksGholdengo has recover>see this set EXISTS!! Deos is used for other things aside from suicide lead.. BECAUSE I SAID SOYes, you can use Deoxys-S for more than suicide leading. It's quite effective as a revenge killer.>switches to dark typeAnd now its ability is off for the rest of the game and it takes more chip when it switches in again.>>Galar M is a hecking valid RU monIt's UUBL
>>56524732Electric moves need buffs across the board.Wild Charge: 90 bp -> 110 bpSuperincel Slam: 100 bp -> 120 bpVolt Tackle: 120 bp -> 150 bpThunderbolt: 90 bp -> 95 bpThunder: 110 bp -> 120 bp
>>56524887Maybe Supercell, but no for the rest. Paralysis is too good.
>>56524916Paralysis is the worst status condition
>>56524984Speed is the most important stat, even just halving that makes paralysis as good as it is.
>>56524987HP is the most important stat.
>>56524753Wake without sun it's a bad joke, stop the cope.Pult wow + hex is an option for sureAlready address ghold.No one uses Deos that way because it sucks ass.Most zama run HDB or lefties, rocks chip is basically not a factor, plus initial boost doesn't really matter as much unless you're dealing with a mon that already set up.Galar M is a shitmon and i never lost to that once in SV OU.The issue is that shitmazenta has just too many good matchups and wins also the ones it should lose due to hax. Late game shit dog is basically autowin if you aren't a complete retard or the opponent has some weird as fuck tera. Too bulky, too fast, not a single mon can boast that bulk and speed outside of Ubers. That's what pushes it over the edge, were is 110 or even 120, but it's fucking 138. btw Raging bolt deals with it decently and the fact that you didn't mention it confirms you're a 1400 elo knotlover
>>56524753>WoW + Hex set that completely counters Zamazenta.sort of, a lot of zamas are tera fire now
>>56525045I agree, Pult doesnt really beat it on reality, it can miss wisp and has a lot of other mons to check. Lum or tera fire exist as well. However I don't consider tera in this otherwise I'd end up saying some clown shit like "tera fairy X mon beats Y mon"
>>56524753zama is easy to beat right that's why it's S >>56521339
>>56524723I wished Gamefreak took their head out of their ass for five seconds and just gave Electric types a good physical STAB, while at it, give Electivire Electric Surge or a strong Electric move that sets up Electric Terrain on hit, it would single-handedly give it a niche in being one of the few terrain setters in the game and it synergize decently enough with some of the Paradoxes at least, I just want to see the poor bastard be decent for once even if it's a small niche.
>>56524723>number of ice types: 58>number of electric types: 73>number of bug types: 95>needs to exclude multiple good ice types and pretend garbage like yanmega is good for his narrative to workgood job owning yourself, campaignshitter.
>>56525180Okay, and? Butterfree being shit doesn't mean Volcarona and Scizor don't count.>needs to exclude multiple good ice types and pretend garbage like yanmega is good for his narrative to workNo good Ice types were excluded. That's all of them.>garbage like yanmegaYanmega is higher tier than Cloyster (RU vs NUBL).
>>56525082Landorus and Great Tusk are one rank below it and they're easy to beat.
>>56525196>No good Ice types were excluded. That's all of them.cope fanfic meta tranny
>>56525196>Okay, and?Of course the type with the fewest Pokemon in the game is going to have fewer good Pokemon.>No good Ice types were excludedPlay the game.>Yanmega is higher tier than Cloyster (arbitrary fanfic tier vs arbitrary fanfic tier)No one cares.
>>56525218>Of course the type with the fewest Pokemon in the game is going to have fewer good Pokemon.Fairy, Ghost, and Dragon are also incredibly obscure types and they have far more good pokemon.>Play the game.Pokemon Showdown is the game. Gen 6+ is fanfic.
>Gen 9Why is the powercreep so horrid?
>>56525229>Fairy, Ghost, and Dragon are also incredibly obscure typesno they aren’t>and they have far more good pokemonnope>Pokemon Showdown is the gameshowdown != fanfic smogshit format
>>56518516>>56518542At least Big Yellow I can listen too despite being a tranny, PlagueVonKarma is fucking unlistenable, like they're swallowing mucus with every sentence, it's disgusting
>>56521655Saying this in gen 9 is ridiculous, OU isn't the only tier with good pokemon anymore anon, this isn't gen 3 or 4 anymore, terrakion, jirachi, and fucking salamence are RU now
>>56525502Terrakion, Jirachi, and Salamence are shitmons.
>>56525201how is this an argument at all?base 90 speed mons are usually easy to beat unless they are extremely bulky. Base 138 box legendaries are slightly different
>>56521980Bisharp without knock off is dogshit. You can thank fat fuck Kingambit for that.
>the ice type debate againIce types were garbage for so many years because every ice type except for Jynx, the Sneasel line, and Mamoswine either had its offense kneecapped (post-special split Articuno, Froslass, Cryogonal, Alolan Ninetales) was way too slow to take advantage of its offensive typing (everyone else prior to gen 8), or had severe movepool issues (Rotom, pre-gen 8 Kyurem/Kyurem-B). It was an offensive type with too many slow defensive mons. Imagine if rock never got Aerodactyl or Tyranitar prior to Hisuian Arcanine - that's the ice type.>"But Cloyster was recently banned in gen 5!"Everyone knows Cloyster is carried by its obscenely overpowered boosting move. That shit is getting Mega Blastoise quickbanned in gen 10 because it now outspeeds and 2HKOs the entire game.
>>56525835what boosting move? you seriously dont mean the defense-culling memebait, right?
>>56516472>ITT Retards who masquerade as kids obsessing over a childrens video game AND a childrens battle format in said childrens video game while not actually occupying time and space in a childrens body
>>56525835>they were garbage because I’m bad at the gamezzz
>>56525835Ice type being an offensive type doesn't mean it needs to have dogshit defenses. Especially because it doesn't have any reliable, strong moves aside from Blizzard on the few Ice types that get Snow Warning and Triple Axel. Even now, in Gen 9, Ice types have to have extra absurd stats/moves/abilities to get banned.
So, do you knock off or edge?>edge sets up spikes but if their spinner is still up it ends up being a waste>knock off not only cripples the opposing mon but also cripples any potential switch inGenuinely spend too much time thinking about it whenever I send out this thing.
>>56525994I run edge if samurott is my lead, some leads already setup spikes anyways so might as well swing early to set them up.You just need to make sure not to tunnle vision on setting up spikes, the difference between one and two layers isn't that big but the difference between two and three is tempting.
>>56525994>Decide to go for the Ceaseless Edge after 3 minutes of deliberation>Miss
>>56525994Always ceaseless first. Even if their spinner is still alive it pressures them to click it instead of something that would do more damage. Knock Off you only click expecting a boots mon to switch into you, like Hydrapple or Alomomola.
>>56525994Samurott isn’t fast enough or defensively typed well enough to be a good Knock Off user without a Choice Scarf (FUCK the Choice Scarf and the niggers who use it btw). I don’t know why people on Smogon keep saying that it’s only getting more splashable despite its base 85 speed.
>>56525994I fucking hate how ugly this thing is.
>>56525229>Gen 6+ is fanfic.ok bort
>>56526707The shiny is alright.
>>56526746My favorite gen is 3 actually.
>>56526832oh if you simply hate oras then fair
>>56523715First off no. Even at +2 is still outspeed by Valiant, Moon and moth. can't do shit to gambit, primarina, dondozo, etcsecond, why TF anyone would care about king's rock? flinching is by far the most retarded RNG garbage in game, shell smash is already cheap garbage as well.
>>56525490plague knows jack shit anyways so you're not listening much
>>56518516RBY is by far the worst gen
smogon needs item clause Having half your team using booster energy and boots is not balanced
>>56528057Dealing with the 4 or so mons that use booster energy is whatever these low interactive boots spam pussies need to be dealt with though
>>56528266Iron Valiant Roaring Moon and Iron Moth getting a choice scarf without the restriction is absurd
>>56528287roaring moon hits like a shitmon without boost+dance if by some act of god your losing to scarf moon refer to some sample teams scarf moth is almost as bad because its movepool is resisted by nearly half the tier so choice locking it isn't a good idea in the slightestonly bolt, wake and MAYBE valiant would be good choice mons
>>56528314Iron Moth with booster energy can boost with fiery dance and poison + fire is pretty hard to resist.Knock off from Moon hits hard and if it gets a dance it can sweep most teams
>>56528314Did you not get what he was saying? He said Booster Energy Speed Boost is essentially like having a Choice Scarf without the restriction of being choice locked. He didn't say he has a problem with scarf Roaring Moon or Iron Moth.
>>56516472It’s Weaover
>>56529700As a fan I'm sad that Weavile dropped out of the popular tier but I'm glad it dropped down into the fun one.
>>56525835>>56525898>>56525987>Be Ice type>Need Pokemon with similar stats to likes of Zacian and Yveltal to be considered banworthy>Typing offensively is good for sure, but for some reason gets resisted by 3 solid defensive types>Ground gets to hit Steel super effectively, but also only be resisted by very exploitable types in Grass/Bug/Flying and you also get a 100 BP 100% accurate move with minimal drawbacksSuch a shame Ice as a type gets treated like this when Ground exists and is extremely privileged
>>56530454>Need Pokemon with similar stats to likes of Zacian and Yveltal to be considered banworthyBaxcalibur and Iron Bundle have similar stats to Zacian and Yveltal? You aight campaignshitter?
