>>58653961
VGC players don't like actually playing the base games and Ursaluna is autistic to get regardless of form

>it was my friends i swear not me lol
lmao every time

>>58653961
Not only not giving any explanation but having you go incomplete instead of just kicking you outright is a bit of a dick move honestly

these "pro" vgc competitors are turds. they have nothing but contempt for actually playing the game, and then act like they were wronged when they get caught taking shortcuts. if you wanted ursaluna so goddamn bad, buy arceus or the sv dlc, you cunt. you were clearly eager to shit out the funds for your travel expenses. don't tell me the entry price of a game is outside of what you can manage

i loved that vgc crackdown a few years ago where cheaters were disqualified for illegal mons after they already made financial and time commitments for traveling to the venue. you figure everyone else would in fall line after that

>Ursaluna got hack filtered
>should've been DQ's on the spot
Verlisify will call this a W against corruption

>>58653961
At least Smoggies don’t hide that they’re not playing legitimately. Fanfic meta wins again

>>58653961
As long a Pokemon is legal, it literally shouldn’t matter how it was obtained.

>>58653961
Why wasn't he banned? Joke "competition"

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1.3 MB PNG

>>58653961
It’s because cheating is based.
It makes breedcucks seeth realizing all those hours they wasted getting the right IVs, grinding all those bottlecaps, learning all the best EV training spots, etc. could have been done in a few minutes. And without spending thousands of dollars on extra consoles and games too.

>>58654044
yeah its mental in no other sport to you see these levels of laziness, competitive fps games the players spend all day training like a full time job, same with real sports but when it comes to pokemon all of a sudden playing the game is a warcrime kek

>>58654089
>breedcucks
nobody breeds anymore, retardo

>hours they wasted getting the right IVs, grinding all those bottlecaps
bottlecaps are purchaseable in stores in sv
>learning all the best EV training spots
vitamins are purchaseable in stores in sv and max out evs instantly

>>58654111
>nobody breeds anymore
Yeah YOU don’t breed!!

Why not just hack in the mon you want and then breed a 'legit' one from it?

>>58653961
the retard who hacked it probably forgot to put a HOME tracker on it

ursaluna fucks a lot of cheaters because it's one of the few pokemon not actually obtainable in SV

>>58653961
>Indian

>>58653961
Lemme guess, it was hacked to have 0 speed IVs
Rusty bottle cap when

>>58653961
>VGCfags don’t want to play the game
>fanfic metafags don’t want to play the game
so what counts as playing the game

>>58653961
You don't have to whittle your own pieces to play chess. You don't have to prove you pulled all of your MTG cards from a booster pack. You can play Warhammer with an army that someone else painted. Why should Pokemon be different? Just have people submit teams on paper and have them approved for competition, then generated in-house during the tournament. Just like you can play the Pokemon games without ever having a competitive battle, you should be able to compete without playing or owning any of the games.

>>58654272
ShinnyCHADS

>>58654283
>playing the game is running around in circles until rng blesses you
maybe campaignshitters have the right way of things after all

>>58654275
Coaches DO have to recruit and train players, that's part of their job description. A Pokemon Trainer is a coach.
>You don't have to prove you pulled all of your MTG cards from a booster pack.
Funny you say this because inauthentic cards aren't allowed at tournaments either. If you bring in your homemade forgeries you will be disqualified.

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As a veteran that's been in the game since before VGC, there was cheating at this event too in the east coast trials
My friend got eliminated but it drew attention of the judges when his opponents smeargle outsped his weavile on turn 1
After they did a cart check on the winner and he got disqualified, but weirdly they didn't let my friend back in the competition

>>58654275
Also
>you should be able to compete without playing or owning any of the games.
How are you going to compete without owning a Switch and a copy of SV ir Champions? They're not provided to you. What an asinine post.

>>58654092
>competitive fps games the players spend all day training like a full time job
Do they spend their time practicing the actual game, or farming bullets for the tournament?

>>58654337
>>58654350
I'm not a coach and I'm certainly not a "Pokemon Trainer". Are you 10 or do you just wish you were? I'm not coaching a team of individuals, I'm playing a turn-based strategy game against another fat nerd. In the interests of fairness and legality, all Pokemon and all hardware used in a tournament should be provided by the tournament organisers. This ensures that nobody is cheating, and it also makes the competition more accessible to people who don't have the time or the inclination to grind through the RPG.

>>58654358
team building is a mechanic of pokemon so it is part of the game its different but should be something the players have to do since thats part of the game, kinda like driving range for golf pros or whatever lol

>>58654358
They do aim trainers which is not playing the actual game. Boxers also train their hand to eye coordination and reflexes which are also in fact, not boxing. Lots of things involve not actually doing the thing they are competing in.

>>58654364
>I'm not coaching a team of individuals, I'm playing a turn-based strategy game against another fat nerd
And half of this game is about catching and raising Pokemon. If Gamefreak didn't think this was important there wouldn't be such strict legality checks. But there are, and it is.

>In the interests of fairness and legality, all Pokemon and all hardware used in a tournament should be provided by the tournament organisers.
It's not and no tournament works like this, much less VGC. You provide your own hardware and game and submit your team to legality checking, or you will not play in the tournament. If you've caught and trained all your Pokemon legally (and this is really fucking easy in SV) there won't be any problems. If you're relying on other people to make your team for you, you're rolling the dice and you have no one else to blame if you get disqualified.

>>58653961
lol Switch 2 only games can't come soon enough will come back just to see what is happening with injections.

>>58654395
>no tournament works like this
Literally every fighting game tournament

>>58654378
I said "practicing" the actual game, not playing. VGC players also do e.g. damage calcs, which isn't actual gameplay, but would count as practice.

>>58654395
I know why things are as they are. I'm pointing out that this is a stupid way to do things with no clear parallel in other competitive games. I don't care what Game Freak wants, Game Freak should be catering to my desires, not the other way around. If someone isn't interested in lovingly training their team of Pokemon, they shouldn't be compelled to in order to take part in more enjoyable aspects of the game. Regarding your second point, it is absolutely retarded that people are allowed to bring their own hardware to a competition with actual prizes on the line. That's like bringing your own dice to a casino.

>>58654405
Pokemon is not a fighting game tournament. VGC is not fair. If you've put in the time to learn the meta and organize a team, you've also got time to actually make that team yourself. That's part of preparation.

>>58654415
>I don't care what Game Freak wants, Game Freak should be catering to my desires, not the other way around.
Too bad for you. It's not your tournament so you don't get to make the rules.

>>58654420
No, I'm just not engaging with them at all and taking my custom elsewhere. This is the worst nightmare of any business. Again - you cater to me, or you don't get my money.

>>58654416
No, that’s retarded. Everyone should have an even playing field in competitions like this. Hacking legal mons offers no practicable advantage. It’s fine.

>>58654424
>This is the worst nightmare of any business.
Not really. If you weren't someone who was going to play by the rules then they wouldn't have wanted you there anyway. There's no sale lost because you aren't someone they were catering to.

>>58654426
Again, too bad for you. It doesn't work that way and will NEVER work that way. Even Champions requires you to provide your own Switch.

>>58654044
>if you wanted ursaluna so goddamn bad, buy arceus or the sv dlc
seems like you dont play the games either, given that the respective ursalunas exclusive to those games are completely different mons

>>58654437
Please, explain to us all why alienating past, present, and potential future customers is a good business model. Don't be lazy and say "well, you were never going to be a customer anyway", because that would get you laughed out of any PR or marketing meeting in the history of organised business. I'd accuse you of being a paid Nintendo shill, but clearly, no company worth a damn would even consider hiring you based on your business acumen.

>>58654437
>It doesn't work that way and will NEVER work that way.
Even though sword and shield let you play on ladder with team codes.
And Champions is seemingly letting you freely customize your stats so you don't have to reset for a min-speed Ursaluna.
But you're too retarded to envision anything but the status quo, so this will NEVER change. Not that you're even at all interesting in talking about why it would be beneficial or detrimental, you just jerk off to being disagreeable for the sake of it.

>>58653961
He probably set its 31 speed to 0, leaving only 2 perfect IVs, which is invalid for that encounter. And that's being generous. Lots of these DQs just clone a different Pokemon and change its species, so the encounter data is invalid. Like a Heatran that was met in Area Zero, because they just lazily changed their Koraidon's species, moves and ability.

>>58654275
>You don't have to prove you pulled all of your MTG cards from a booster pack. You can play Warhammer with an army that someone else painted.
Bad analogy.

>>58654449
>Please, explain to us all why alienating past, present, and potential future customers is a good business model.
Wow look at this cool strawman. Are you insinuating that all future VGC competitors are open cheaters like yourself? Given there's plenty of players who make it past the legality checks I'd say you're flat out wrong. "A thief thinks everyone steals."

>I'd accuse you of being a paid Nintendo shill, but clearly, no company worth a damn would even consider hiring you based on your business acumen.
And I'm gonna accuse you of being a tourist from /v/, because anyone who's paid attention to VGC in any capacity knows how this works already, AND knows Nintendo has nothing to do with this. Go back.

>>58654466
That's only if it was Bloodmoon. If it was a regular Ursaluna the Ursaring it evolved from could've come from any game Teddiursa is in, then moved to LA and evolved.

>>58654468
It's not a bad analogy. Someone who plays MTG doesn't have to care about collecting or trading, and a competitor might have only bought his deck the previous day. A Warhammer player doesn't have to know anything about the lore, he doesn't need to be adept at modelling and painting, he just needs to know how to play the game.
>>58654469
I accept your concession. You know full well that if people don't want to follow a ruleset, that's because the ruleset is bad. If it was trivial to obtain competitive Pokemon, nobody would feel any need to hack them in - it has been intentionally kept nontrivial, which alienates an unknown number of potential players. The VGC is stupid. It has always been stupid. Everything pertaining to competitive Pokemon is stupid, myopic, and poorly managed. This is why something like Showdown is so successful, the playerbase as a whole was crying out for a better alternative. You are either a fool or a troll.

>>58654486
If you don't want to follow a ruleset you're free to not join the tournament that uses it. This is like complaining you can't use Uber Pokemon in OU. Just petulant whining from someone who doesn't want to follow the rules, while plenty of other people can and do.

>>58654466
i have three 0spe bloodmoons from that encounter so i know first hand its cancer to do. its one of a decreasing number of edge cases that cant be readily built from a well-equipped save, but if its what you need for your team, theres no getting around how shit it is to get.

rusty bottle cap is basically the only thing missing to bring the creationg of any build to a level id consider reasonable to expect of vgc players, but hopefully champions will have sliders for ivs too (no, we havent seen how it handles ivs. the sliders it has are for evs, theyve just removed the layer of abstraction evs provided and you add stat points directly now)

all of that said, if you sign up to a tournament where the rules say you have to catch your mons legit and youll be punished if theyre not legit, and you read and agree to those rules, and you get caught with illegitimate mons, and get punished, you have no one to blame but yourself. the expectations of tpc being unreasonable doesnt give you a right to claim youre being persecuted when rules you were aware of and agreed to are enforced

>>58653961
Because VGC is a fucking joke

>>58654490
If I don't want to follow a ruleset, that's not my problem, it's the tournament's problem. If they make a more appealing ruleset, they'll get more players.

How to fix VGC teambuilding.
>bring back origin mark restrictions
>no transfer only mons
>grinding for stats and moves should not take more than 1 or 2 hours per pokemon
>abolish individual values as that's where the majority of the pointless grind lies
>no more version exclusive single encounter pokemon that cannot breed or simply ban them from competing like mythicals

>>58654486
You have to care about collecting/trading in that you need all your cards to be legit. Same for Warhammer. If you roll up with proxies for MTG or with figs made by not FW/GW then you will be DQ'd, which is a harsher penalty than using a hacked mon you got from someone else as you're still allowed to play instead of being handed a DQ.

>>58654502
i dont think theyre struggling for players. retard-kun

>>58654502
No, it's literally your problem. VGC is not at your beck and call. You have to make the application to join regionals using the format, with the rules provided. The onus is on you to participate or not.

>>58654044
Demanding even more money for shit this menial is retarded and in service of no one other than the corpo regardless of your feelings. People looking for workarounds to locking shit arbitrarily behind more product is entirely on GF. At least you can actually get something out of traveling to a different country.

>>58654508
>>abolish individual values as that's where the majority of the pointless grind lies
?
bro hasnt played since gen 6!
bro doesnt know what bottle caps are!

>>58653989
It's funny and it's what cheaters deserve. There's zero excuse to hack anything in the current year. It take 30 minutes tops to get a fresh mon ready for competitive.

>>58654517
0 ivs are where the autism lies

>>58654508
>bring back origin mark restrictions
what?
>no transfer only mons
only valid point on this list (but even then its not really unreasonable to expect people passionate enough about a game series to fly around the world to compete in it to own other games in the series)
>grinding for stats and moves should not take more than 1 or 2 hours per pokemon
building 99% of mons takes 20 minutes tops in sv
>abolish individual values as that's where the majority of the pointless grind lies
what are bottle caps?
what is the destiny knot?
what are the power items?
>no more version exclusive single encounter pokemon that cannot breed or simply ban them from competing like mythicals
mythicals have literally never been allowed at a vgc tournament ever. i think you might be thinking of your fanfic meta

>>58654510
I don't have to hand-paint all my models and demonstrate an acceptable level of interest in the setting. I can just buy a ready-made army and skip the tedious parts.
>>58654512
Yes, and I choose to not participate. That's their loss, not mine. I don't depend on their money and good will like they do on mine and that of the rest of the playerbase. Their entire business model, the thing that puts food on the tables of their employees, is appealing to the players, and they aren't doing a very good job of that. These days, the concept of having to grind things out is seriously outdated. I want to be able to look up the best performing teams online and use them immediately, I am not alone in wanting this, and if this isn't offered then they are losing out on lots of revenue.

>>58654275
The point of Pokemon is catching and raising the monsters yourself.

>>58654533
Stop roleplaying. It's a game.

>>58654517
Tell me, where can I find a Rusty Bottle Cap for 0 IV or a Painted Bottle Cap to set it to any IV that isn't 0 or 31?

>>58654537
A game that you're choosing to play and then crying about. The game is catching, raising, and battling monsters. All three.

>>58654537
Catching and raising is part of the game. This isn't Yu-Gi-Oh!.

>>58654523
>>58654538
the only pokemon you cant breed for a 0IV on are legendaries (of whom the only ones that would entertain TR are lunala and dialga, the only one of whom who sees widespread use is lunala) and bloodmoon ursaluna. and you do that reset once and it sucks but then you have the mon forever

i do think rusty bottle cap should exist and agree those resets arent reasonable to expect players to do, but acting like what youre saying makes sense when 99.9% of TR-speed-tier mons can be bred in 5 minutes is retarded

>>58654543
>>58654544
I'm not choosing to play it. I use Showdown. I haven't played a Pokemon game since Gold and Silver.

>>58654446
...hence i specifically mentioned either or, because it wasn't clear which one the person in OP was referring to. come the fuck on

>>58654546
oh and cresselia, i forgot cresselia

>>58654529
>I can just buy a ready-made army and skip the tedious parts.
And then you run the risk of that army being unofficial prints and getting a DQ.

>>58654547
>I haven't played a Pokemon game since Gold and Silver.
It was pretty obvious.

>>58654416
Anon forgets that what actually happens is people just pay other people to do it for them.

>>58654546
I'm not saying it's an issue, it isn't, just that's what people hack 99% of the time.
That said, if they did add a rusty cap, people would still hack their stats/whatever and cry when they get disqualified because it's never enough.

>>58654555
Which is stupid and shouldn't happen. I'd just as happily play the game with little pieces of paper saying "This is a Land Raider".
>>58654558
It's true. I don't enjoy pretending to be a 10 year old boy and going on mystical adventures like you do.

>>58654561
And then you're running the risk of other people using inauthentic methods during their playthrough and getting disqualified. Like what happened in the OP, except he was allowed to play, only with an inauthentic core team member missing.

Extremely telling that nobody defending the current state of the rules are basically presenting no arguments in favor of it.

>>58654582
If something doesn't need defending it's pretty evident it's a good system, which is why the tournaments are getting more and more players every time.

>>58654582
everyone*
i love when i edit my message before posting and it ends up as some esl garbage

>>58654582
Calling proposed changes fucking awful is an implicit defense for the current ruleset. If what you want to make it into is worse than how it is, then how it is is good enough.

>>58654567
You’re the one who brought up the comparison, retard-kun

>>58654592
Rampant outsourcing and cheating would suggest it's not a good system.

>>58654608
>Calling proposed changes fucking awful is an implicit defense for the current ruleset.
It's also not an argument. Thanks for reminding me to make an addendum though, not only are they not providing arguments for why the current rules are good (outside of appeals to popularity), they are also not providing reasons for why changing it would make it worse. And the increase in popularity could also be linked to them making it easier than before by introducing systems like bottle caps, which would suggest that removing the process altogether would make it even more popular.

>>58654538
Unnecessary
A higher stat is a better stat.

Good thing Champions will finally fix this by giving everyone access to teambuilder tools and rentals, and anyone autistic enough will never be starving for VP to add or modify their Pokemon as they see fit.
The total death of IVs also means no more autistic faggotry over "MUH 0 SPEED FOR TRICK ROOM, MUH 0 ATTACK FOR CONFUSION", everything is now uniform all 31s by default.

>>58654663
>everything is now uniform all 31s by default
or 0

>>58654628
Name 1 competition with 0 cheaters.

>>58654670
Nah, 31, the stats shown in trailer footage line up with 31 IV instances.

>>58654473
Bloodmoon is played more and is the obvious candidate for manipulation. Calyrex and Bloodmoon are probably the two most commonly manipulated mons in the format. Enamorous would be as well, if it saw any play.

>>58654663
There are still legit cases for low IVs otherwise. You need a Stakataka with very low Def IV (I think 6 or less) so that you can have Atk be higher and get Beast Boost buffs.

VGC community has this problem where people act like it's still 2010 when hacking was necessary and encourage the idea that it's acceptable. Ursaluna is years old at this point, if you haven't taken a little bit of time to get your own Pokemon that you know will always be meta, you are a lazy retard and deserve to be punished.

>>58654680
What's the point of such a stat when everything is +31?

>>58654675
I saw the world rock paper scissors competition once and it gad some weird legalized cheating where you fake out your opponent by not picking one. The games went on like 5 minutes because they bith did it constantly

>>58654694
Stackataka can just be legally rng’d desu

>>58654697
I had a J team where I used a fast AV guts Ursaluna because no one expected it lol
Even got wisped or poisoned a few times too, guess they thought I’d be bulletproof since I didn’t have an orb

>>58654628
>it's not a good system because retarded faggots cheat to avoid 30 minutes of playing the video game

>>58654703
To artificially prolong unfun gameplay. Game Freak says it's to promote individuality in Pokemon, but casuals don't care and battlefags got so pissed about it, they made Pkhex.

>>58654675
>niggers are really violent
>name 1 country without murder
shut up retard

>>58654697
To add to this, a significant number of top VGC players just don't engage with the games outside of ranked matches and events. On the 3DS, you could see player stats during matches, and it was obvious who hacked or outsourced their team. These days, the obvious tell is the lack of any player customization. But a lot of them are brazen and will tell on themselves, like Marco Silva demeaning other top players for "wasting time" by actually playing and enjoying the game.

On one hand, I appreciate that Champions will remove barriers, but on the other hand, I really dislike players who have outright contempt for Pokemon. I don't get why they invest so much time into something they're dispassionate about. Go play chess you weirdos

>>58654732
The PKHex creator hates people using it for comp and half his tweets are being mad at people doing so.

>>58654743
He's a retard then. What other use would a Pokemon save editor have if not for cheating?

>>58654739
Its even funnier because they're too autistic to realize at least pretending to enjoy the game would help their "brand" and help subsidize their VGC career. Wolfe wouldn't be as popular if he shit on the game every chance he gets and said he always thought the franchise was for kids. Instead he shoehorns stories about growing up with it and random "oh i love X shitmon" stuff and people lap it up. Look at the Chimecho reveal.

>>58654749
Single player, which is 100% what he intended it to be for

>>58654739
>I really dislike players who have outright contempt for Pokemon.
As in the single player campaign and story? There are seriously people who only care about the PVP in this massive franchise? There are far better games out there for playing PVP and only PVP.

>>58654723
How are they retarded when they frequently get away with it?
You also seem to assume that tournament players just think of a team and then go get it, instead of playtesting several different variations with several different EV spreads, and I know just menus alone would take over 30 minutes to go through.
Of course, they actually do this on showdown instead, because the actual game is dogshit at supporting its own competitive scene.

>>58654755
>Single player
Makes no sense to me. What would you use it for, a battle facility team? Cheating in a completed dex and larping to your friends?

>>58654751
I'm pretty sure it was Wolfe who mentioned his interaction with Silva around the time SV released, and Wolfe just asked what he thought about the game. Brand new gen, and he couldn't even pretend to care. Like, okay, be a weirdo and press the A button, but why half-ass a brand image with the Skiploom plush? There's no emotional attachment, there's no whimsy, it's just another box to check. Like an alien imitating human rituals without understanding them.

>>58654764
whatever you want, go ask him.

>saar cheated in an ursaluna because he can't get the dlc
>it's pokemon's fault, not mine!
Stop cheating and play the game. It's piss easy to get the Pokemon you want on your team now.

>>58654761
Yep. I don't have the exact numbers, but if you're just talking about players who make quarterfinals and above, it's over 50%. Less than half of those top cut players actually play the game, let alone care about the game, beyond doing the bare minimum. For most that means playing until they access the link menu, then have everything traded to them. Some of them will actually catch legends and obtain meta items, but it's just a means to an end.

A majority of VGC players at worlds genuinely like Pokemon and like playing the games, but that number drops off a cliff as you go up the bracket. It's depressing and it says a lot about the state of the game. I hope Champions being accessible brings in more passion and squeezes those weirdos out.

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>>58654749
>What other use would a Pokemon save editor have if not for cheating?
I'm not even sure Kurt himself knows.

>>58654736
So you can't?

>>58654761
No there’s not. Pokémon’s battle system is incredibly deep. The main games just simplify it for retards.

>>58654800
He's just a simple man, he just wants to tinker away in his workshop. Damn hackers took over the well, poor guy is going to throw out is back again

>>58654816
>Mr. Fuji, why did you create Mewtwo?
>"lol I unno, I was bored"

>>58654800
I know sometimes people do projects to put on their resume. But somehow I don't think Kurt is that kind of guy.

>>58654807
Whether or not I can is irrelevant.
But since you asked so nicely, competitive retropolis.

>>58654847
He's just interested and passionate about the underlying code. I think he views his tool as a way to reverse engineer Pokemon, rather than a tool for making bootlegs, especially for official tournaments

>>58654175
If they're using Bloodmoon then it's basically a legendary you can't breed or get more than one of per save.

>jeet gets found out ot be hacking

lol

>>58654867
Bottle cap and mint it.

>>58654275
BUT IF THEY DID THAT THEN THE HUNDREDS OF HOURS I SPENT GETTING PERFECT IV TRICK ROOM FEMALE (like me) HATTERENE WOULD BECOME MEANINGLESS! EVERYONE HAS TO PLAY THE GAME LIKE THEY’RE UNEMPLOYEED AND HAVE NOTHER HOBBIES!!!

>>58654878
But muh 0 speed IVs

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>>58654875
Kurt posted this after the Worlds 2023 fiasco.

>>58654365
And does VGC show off players running around in circles and grinding different materials, or does it show the actual battling part?

>>58654879
hat is always female, play the game

>>58654888
There was a tweet a while ago at one of the VGC events where a participant saw another person in USUM exploring Ultra Wormholes looking for a specific Pokemon, so yes it does happen there.

>>58654800
Even before pkhex we had pokesav and pokegen. It's not like him not making pkhex would have changed anything when those tools have been around for well over a decade.

>>58654856
Googled and there was cheating. Good try though.

>>58654879
Breeding for that mon in SV, the worst game for eggs, would take less than 5 minutes.

>>58654878
Can't lower IVs, and you need low/0 IVs on a Trick Room Pokemon.

>>58654980
Save and reload

>>58654982
Or just gen them to bypass cheat detection like everyone else. That works too. Spend a couple hours learning how to gen correctly and you'll save dozens of hours down the road.

>>58654990
GF needs to go back to Pokemon generation being as strict as it was pre-3DS. It's easy to get around if you can be bothered to figure out RNGreporter, but seeing everyone get filtered and DQ'd for a few events would be hilarious.

>>58654990
>or just cheat

The reason why “cheating” in Pokemon is still debated somehow is because breedcucks have a Sunk Cost into the Pokemon they breed.
They are very determined to convince everyone, namely themselves, that injecting is wrong when its very normal thing to do and no one else cares. In threads like this, they’ll spout out delusional rhetoric like comparing actual real world training by professional athletes to Pokemon teambuilding, or claiming that the tedious work to teambuild is as much part of the game as the strategy and calculations done for the actual battle.

The most damning part is how they recoil at the idea of a Pokemon Showdown type of teambuilder one might suggest. Such a solution would solve the whole injecting “problem”. You’d be able to make any team you want without going through multiple hurdles and not being forced to spend so much money on equipment (multiple consoles, DLCs, multiple games, etc.). This WOULD also benefit the breedcuck too since they don’t have to spend their unemployement checks on the equipment just to get the broken P2W Legendary/Exclusive Pokemon.
However despite those very valid reasons to make a teambuilder like you’d find on Pokemon Showdown and other simulators, they still oppose such an idea. This makes it pretty obvious that breedcucks don’t really care about the rules. What they care about is how much time and money they sunk into Pokemon and wants everyone else to suffer like they did. Such insidious enviness is what causes the breedcuck to despise normal people for bypassing bullshit that serves 0 purpose to the game.

>>58654982
Good luck getting 0 Spe and Atk IV Enamorus and Ursaluna when you can’t simply save and reload for PLA.

>>58655037
>The reason why “cheating” in Pokemon is still debated somehow is because breedcucks have a Sunk Cost into the Pokemon they breed.
>They are very determined to convince everyone, namely themselves, that injecting is wrong when its very normal thing to do and no one else cares. In threads like this, they’ll spout out delusional rhetoric like comparing actual real world training by professional athletes to Pokemon teambuilding, or claiming that the tedious work to teambuild is as much part of the game as the strategy and calculations done for the actual battle.
i like building pokemon and making teams for myself (i have autism). i have invested god knows how many hours over the course of my life doing this
i do not give a fuck if other people hack their pokemon in. that does not devalue the fun i had making pokemon the "legit" way, nor does my doing things the "legit" way make my pokemon objectively any better than hacked mons. pokemon are lines of code whose value is wholly subjective
that said, if you agree to rules for attendning a tournament that say youll be kicked out if you bring hacked mons, bring hacked mons, and get kicked out, then go to xitter dot com to complain about it, youre a retard with no leg to stand on and ill laugh at you. do it legit, learn to hack properly, or dont attend the tournament

>>58655037
Nobody breeds anymore. Are you like permanently stuck in 2022 or something?

>>58655051
PLA ursaluna can be bred in sv as a teddiursa. only enamorus sucks (but it sees zero use so its moot)

>>58655062
>in sv as a teddiursa
Or in BDSP. Or in any of the gen 3-7 games and transferred up. Hell, you can just RNG manip a Teddiursa or an Ursaring and catch that. Became the game is generating the Pokemon it'll be 100% authentic and you won't have anything to worry about at all.

whats the difference between hyper training and perfect bred ivs

>>58655073
HT is marked as such in the data and does not pass down to offspring

>>58655073
for the purposes of competitive battling, nothing. though you can breed a 0 IV (which is useful for trick room teams who want to be as slow as possible), which you cant hyper train. thats the only edge case thats relevant for battling.

the only real difference outside of battling is that hyper trained IVs dont affect the pokemons "genetics" - for the purposes of breeding and passing its IVs on, itll pass down whatever it had before

>>58655073
Hyper Training doesn't actually change IVs, it just marks a flag to treat the IV as if it's 31 for the purposes of stat calculation. Same with Mints for Natures.

Breeding for IVs actually gets the desired IVs, usually 31.

>>58655051
You can though. LA's autosave can be turned off in the options menu. Plus you can just breed for a Teddiursa in one game then evolve it in LA.

>>58655146
The problem though is that PLA doesn’t let you check your Pokemon’s IVs and you have to trade it to the turnbased games to just check it.
Doing so means you save your game and can’t just reload the game again. So for Enamorus, you have to play the whole game again just for another shot at a 1 out of 1,024 chance.
Ursaluna is easier since you can get more than one per save file and only Spe matters, but still is tedious and is an otherwise pointless mechanic.

>>58655166
Shouldn't Enamorus be a high enough level that you can use an online calc to check it's IVs fairly accurately?

>>58654089
isn't that the 'idya 'utts girl
based

>>58655174
Level 70, so I'd imagine so.

>>58653961
>My friend
Let me guess one of you fucked up and duplicated the pk file or didn't put a home tag on it?

They deserve to get penalized and dq'd
Nor for injecting, no, but because they're such lazy and retarded fucks they don't do it properly

>>58655143
>>58655081
>>58655078
so... why didnt he just hypertrain an ursaluna then wouldnt that have been possible. what is his problem

>>58655191
the vast majority of ursalunas (both forms) are trick room users, so they need a 0 speed IV (which cant be hyper trained, as hyper training only sets ivs to 31). trick room mons can still have the rest of their stats hyper trained, since you just want them to be 31, but you need to get the 0 without hyper training

if it was regular ursaluna, he could breed for a 0 speed iv and hyper train the rest, which is pretty quick. bloodmoon ursaluna is a bit more annoying since it cant be bred so you have to reset until you get a 0 speed one

>>58655191
Because they want 0 speed IVs and you can't bottle cap them. There's a reason why it's always one offs or legendaries that are the ones getting flagged by hack checks and not regular things you can easy breed for.

>>58655200
ahh i get it now, thanks i was missing that part so it was really confusing on why you would gen a pokemon like that.
but bruh, i guess i cant blame him but if youre gonna do comp stuff why wouldnt you just diy

>>58655191
Because you can only Hyper Train a Pokemon to treat its IVs as 31, not any other number. For slow Pokemon like Ursaluna they want to be as slow as possible so they can move as fast as they can under Trick Room, so they want 0 IVs in their Speed stat. Which is why people have been requesting a 'Rusty Bottle Cap' item from Gamefreak that lets you Hyper Train a Pokemon to 0 IVs instead, solving that problem.

It's always funny that when people get caught the first thing they mention is a "friend" fucking up but I never see the "friend" taking accountability or get exposed and the incident is just brushed over. Was there any case in these "friend" stories where someone's mon got caught and the player actually exposed the person who scammed them?

>>58655224
They're usually fans in a Discord chat who the player requests team members from. The fans get to see their mons in the big league competitive scene, and the player gets free team members.

>>58654547
Then go back to Facebook. You're not a real fan.

>>58655236
That's even worse and even more retarded, because you're getting a pool of mons from random people you're putting "trust" in. Seen this shit happen to Wolfe and others but of course they're just "ok" with it.

I just came here to call yall retards and Imma gonna do it without reading a single post since every thread about this is the same to a tee

Yes, forcing people to waste time on making their own mons IS a retarded decision
>B-B-But this isn't gen 3 anymore, it's much faster, I swear
IDC how much faster this is, it's not instant and punishes players for doing things like EV's adjustments after testing.
League of legends, Street fighters and Smash players aren't required to bring an account with all characters unlocked to play w/e character they want and if they were, you wouldn't hear anyone stupid enough to argue this is ok because you can "buy every champ in your role much faster and cheaper than it was in 2012" or w/e
GF is being wildly autistic about this and there's no retarded bootlicking arguments you can cook up that will change that

But also

VGC players, you are just as retarded for showing up to actual events with hacked in mons, especially if you're paid pros
At this point, you KNOW you're risking a DQ for the sake of saving time and/or money
The ruleset is stupid AF but it's the one you sign up to play and you must know about the dozens of other competitors that got fucked sideways for fucking up a mon of theirs
The only way you can get around this is by getting into another game or another job and knowing nintendo's particular brand of autism, it's absolutely obvious to all actual human beings that gaijin tears on twitter won't do a thing

>>58655224
Hate to break it to you, but very few pros actually make their own teams. Shiny hunters will even offer to make pros’ teams as stream content. The friend meme is actually real unless they’re so good they can treat this like a real job and want to avoid all risk or they use PKHex. Most of the people caught are just lazy/retarded, like the guy who hacked a Terapagos but left the FREEMON.NET name on it (Terapagos has set IVs and nature by the way).

>>58655262
>I just came here to call yall retards and Imma gonna do it without reading a single post
Good job outing yourself as the actual retard for just typing all that shit which is the same shit others were saying with extra steps.

>>58655265
Most breedcucks don’t play the real game. They are pre-occupied by MMO grinding to do anything else. They care more about watching the “legit” Ditto fuck their wiafu than the actual game.

>>58655280
Weird nigga projecting his cuck fetish outta nowhere, ok

>>58655268
I mean, if nothing I couldn't summon out of the ether and condense into a dozen lines by suing the slightest bit of common sense was said in 160+ messages, that confirms my suspicion that everyone in this thread is an actual drooling, my mommy-still-ties-my-shoes-for-me retard.
Yes, including myself

>>58655265
You didn't break anything to me, I'm well aware of it. I'm just stating when people like Ray Rizzo or other players got caught their immediate defense was "a friend gave me the wrong pokemon" and you'd think they would know by now to hack check before a major tournament. The Terapagos story is the most hilarious one of all because the retard paid tour expenses to play with a hacked mon that has set IVs in a tournament.

>>58655280
>breedcucks
You keep using this term. Nobody breeds anymore. It's not 2022.

The only reason to breed any mon nowadays is for a 0IV mon and if you want that 0IV mon to be shiny for the long-term breeding.

>>58654990
>spend a couple hours learning how to gen correctly
Or five minutes buying the items you need to make your freshly caught 0IV mon battle ready. But sure, do things the hard way.

>>58655285
I don’t spend hours every day watching 2 animals having sex until a different colored baby pops out.

>>58654912
then surely you can give me a link
to the japanese board game, specifically

File: 7b7234b093c9651b81d27f0e4(...).jpg (94 KB, 640x427)

94 KB JPG

>caring this much about "competitive" Pokemon

>>58653961
>entire game is about training your mons
>developers made it piss easy to train comp mons
>still cheat
why?

>>58655360
Because it's not good enough due to the aforementioned "you still have to autistically soft reset/breed for 0IV Speed/Attack" factor, and 0Speed is actually extremely important for some mons due to Trick Room being so prevalent in VGC.

>>58655368
This. Long as GF refuses to add Rusty Bottle Caps or just fucking do away with IVs, breeding is still going to be required, so why not skip all the hassle and gen it?

>>58655311
Right here bro
https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/372375/retropolis

>>58655368
>literally cherry picks the only case
my point still stands

>>58655379
>skips the hazzle
>gets disqualified

>>58653968
>>58654216
>>58654875
you are from pakistan sir

>>58655420
saaaaaar

>>58653961
>>58655262
honestly, I'm still surprised people get busted for shit like this. PID validation is so easy now with all the RNG manipulation tools and save editing tools in the world now. It wasnt even a Blood Moon, either, so the range of PIDs and valid encounters is so vast. You really could even just reverse engineer a PID for a shiny from Colosseum if you spent the time. Its not that hard.

>>58655423
sir you are a pakistani bangladeshi from sri lanka

>>58653961
Just grind BBQ and sell the materials. You easily get max money in like 1 weekend and then it's easy as hell to make virtually any pokemon nowadays. Sure some are a pain to get 0 speed IVs but if you don't want to autisticly grind for it, don't use those pokemon.

>>58655404
When that "only case" is one that can define whether you win or lose the world championship, it's pretty fucking important.

>>58653961
Years of it being encouraged.
If anything what's weird is that there was a hack check and that it worked.

>>58655443
>if you don't want to autisticly grind for [a very strong option in current meta], don't use it
I'm so fucking glad I got into fanfic meta early enough for the sunken cost fallacy to keep me tour of VGC

>>58654044
>vgc crackdown
That's just PR like when they say they don't like scalpers in the TCG.
>>58654092
To be fair most sports punish cheating.

>>58655429
redeeeeem

>>58655467
>To be fair most sports punish cheating.
Most sports also really want to become as inclusive and easy of access as possible since they aren't centered around a protected IP and toys sales

>>58655462
>no money involved
lol absolute cuck

>>58655452
THEN DON'T BUILD A FUCKING TRICK ROOM TEAM IF YOU CAN'T BREED ONE.

almost like your rewarded for putting in more effort for using such an obtuse playstyle

>>58655391
Sorry, where are the tournament cheaters?

>>58655452
Post play where 0 and 1 ivs on speed mattered on the world championship winning play

>>58655505
At the tournaments.

>>58655517
So I gave you a game and your response is "it has cheaters trust me bro"? Isn't that kind of embarrassing? Why even ask then if you didn't care to know?

>>58655493
I've taken part in multiple lans, FNM and other "gaming" tournaments during my uni years and honestly, bragging rights were as much a motivator as w/e card packs, computer components or other prizes were on the line

If you're talking about making a career out of it, I'd argue owing your livelihood to a cabal of autistic Japanese toymakers is exactly what a cuck would seek

>>58655497
>THEN DON'T BUILD A FUCKING TRICK ROOM TEAM IF YOU CAN'T BREED ONE.
Then my team gets raped by people who DO build Trick Room Teams that were banking on me relying on speedsters and priority.

>>58655525
You didn't do anything though?

File: IMG_2752.jpg (3.97 MB, 3024x4032)

3.97 MB JPG

>>58653961
That's Darsh's fault for not injecting his Ursaluna properly

Always will inject my mons

>>58655547
If you have trouble with trick room then you build trick room counters. Pretty easy to understand.

>>58655557
surely anyone but the most autistic person devoid of any context would understand that I asked for a link to the cheating you found while googling, and that I was specifying which game I was talking about

>>58655564
And to counter Trick Room, you need to out-trick them at their own room. Which requires slow mons with 0 Speed IVs.
You see what I'm getting at?

>>58655547
are you, are you implying trick room has no counters?

>>58655579
you have never played the games

>>58655443
>Just grind BBQ and sell the materials.
You don't even need to do this. You can RNG manipulate the item printer, so spend an hour to shit out 50 ability patches and you'll be set on cash for a loooong time.

>>58655561
What will you do when the first mainline Switch 2-exclusive game comes out?

>>58655000
Rng manipulation is actually fun, so it’s antithetical to pkhex users

>>58655547
>>58655579
>taunt
>fake out
>imprison trick room
>KO the setter
>sleep the setter
>click trick room yourself to immediately undo it
>run scary face on your prankster support to side scary face on the first turn of TR as an emergency option
>just stall out the fucking trick room its not that hard

>>58655644
he's playing gen 7. thats as far as he goes

>>58655646
RNG manipulation involves actually playing the game too, you're not just skipping to the prize.

>>58655633
Or just grind like 10 blissey raids from a twitch stream. You can one shot them with half the good steel types if you boost once

>>58655647
>Farigiraf is almost guaranteed to be out to shut down any attempts to deny the TR setter from a Prankster user
>Tera Ghost
>extremely niche case that wastes a move slot
>not always possible
>Tera Grass to shut down Spore
>so now I'm stuck getting battered by Urshifu because they recognize what I'm doing
>Farigiraf can be used to instantly shut down the counterplay
>stall EVER being viable in VGC when Urshifu's lumbering around

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YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND, I NEED TO CHEAT OR ELSE I CAN'T BEAT TRICK ROOM

>>58655669
>farigiraf is not on every team and even when it is it jobs to non-prankster taunt. just put taunt on your incin if TR is such a concern for you
>17 of the 18 tera types are not ghost, and TR setters prefer defensive type-matchup teras than ones to block fake out
>wtf is your flutter mane clicking other than dgleam/protect/maaaaybe shadow ball
>and yet sometimes it is possible
>again, 17/18 tera types are not grass
>what?
>armor tail doesnt block side prio
>i dont mean stall as in bring toxapex i mean stall as in buy time. click protect, make defensive switches, play slowly until the balls back in your court

youre clearly too retarded to ever do well regardless, but the point is that its not about having one autowin button to destroy all TR teams turn 1, but about having a team with enough tools and the skill to recognise the situation youre in to use the right tool to prevent the TR sweep.

>>58655673
KEK

>>58655669
behold, the incredible mind of the smogon player

>>58655488
sar I am ceo bloody bitch rape you tomorrow thank you

>>58653961
>Darsh
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sU6Hkkdkhg

>>58654547
Enjoy Showdown as much as you like! Just stay the fuck away from VGC, then.

>>58654751
Also explains why the VGC rules are what they are. I promise you TPCi have nothing but contempt for these fags that only like Pokemon as a set of stats and would've preferred if they were all manly soldiers instead of gay babby Pikachus and do not feel even the slightest bad about such fags being out thousands of dollars in travel expenses when they get tossed out of a tournament for cheating.

>>58654522
They aren't hacking the stuff that takes 10 minutes; they're hacking thing like min speed min attack legendaries you can only get once per save. Ursaluna Blood Moon could easily take 20+ hours to get from a fresh save, a you'd have to beat the game, beat the first dlc, complete the first dlc Pokedex, then soft reset for the 1 in 32 chance at a 0 or 1 attack IV.

>>58656394
They're pros, they can just hire someone to do that grind for them

>>58656394
Theyre doing both

Breeding Pokemon for perfect IV's is way too autistic and time consuming. While you're spending hundreds/thousands of hours doing that tedious nonsense, competitive players are using that time to play matches and get better at the game with their "hacked" Pokemon.

>>58656373
>I promise you TPCi have nothing but contempt for these fags
They pander them and always let them get away with everything.

>>58656421
>While you're spending hundreds/thousands of hours
you've never raised a pokemon in your life have you?
For fucks sake use bottlecaps, they hand them out like candy

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If it's so easy to raise competitive Pokemon legit now then why does it matter if someone injects

>>58656402
No one is getting paid enough from just playing VGC for it to be their job. But even if that were the case, what about Joe Normie who just goes to one tournament a year, the one driving distance from his house, and who has a day job. Why should he have to autistically play a different game for 20 hours or pay someone else to do it just to participate in the event? The real answer is people hacking should just hack better. I've brought hacked Pokemon tournaments since 2010 and never been caught by any of the hack checks because I do my homework and figure out what needs to be done for Pokemon to be legal.

>>58656421
no
body
breeds
pokemon
anymore

>>58656444
No one complaining about the time investment is complaining about 31IVs. If IVs were always set to 31 in pvp like how level is normalized to 50, then this thread wouldn't exist.

>>58656459
>admitting to cheating at a childrens game
sad

>>58656421
It's only retarded if you chase shiny Pokemon.
They handle those fucking caps like crazy these days so it's not hard to get into competitive at all.
>>58656446
It literally doesn't matter but it should at least be done for the sake of sportsmanship, I guess it's funny whenever some autistic fuck gets caught cheating so maybe that's enough of a justification for it.
>>58656459
Because they enjoy Pokemon, that's the reason you pick the games to begin with to have a shitty adventure then have fun online with some friend group or something.

>>58656444
Or you can just enter in the specific Pokemon's max/0 IV and optimal EV spread and be done with it in under a minute.

>>58656470
Yes, I do cheat, and I don't get caught. As
>>58656446
said, if I'm only saving myself a few minutes, why do you care so much? Could it be I'm actually saving dozens of hours?

>>58656476
>I play the game by not plaing it
weird flex

>>58656492
I've played the games. If you're just in it for competitive, there's no reason to do anything but just that.

>>58656501
>I'm so bad I have to hack to play comp
sad

>>58656505
You can't read, but okay. Keep wasting your time doing frivolous thing buddy.

>>58656521
>stop playing the game :(
do you use cheats to get to the last level are super mario brothers as well?
I mean playing the game is frivolous

Why do some people get so upset at hacked Pokemon? I worked with someone who bred Pokemon in his spare time and you could see and hear the rage in him when I mentioned using hacked Pokemon for competitive. It was really weird, why do they care so much?

Reminder that it's only cheating if you get caught. Always point and laugh at VGC pros who cry about getting BTFO and kicked. Remind them that they will always have the stigma of being a cheater in a children's game, and that it wouldn't have happened if they weren't retarded and covered their tracks properly.

>>58656566
Sunk Cost or Trolling, no inbetween

>>58656566
You have no integrity and the least you could do is be humble about it.

File: IMG_1289.gif (1.99 MB, 498x498)

1.99 MB GIF

Why is it always leftists that hack their mons?
Chuds dont seem to cheat as often. Maybe it’s an integrity thing or something

>>58653961
> Ursaluna was caught in a raid as an Ursaluna and was level 100 on the spot
> “WHAT IS HAPPENING TO US??”
Maybe don’t be a retard ??

Why’re hackers so sensitive in the pokemon community? Every other gaming franchise shits on hackers/cheaters, it’s only pokemon fags that try to defend it

>>58656607
>>58654886

>>58653961
Reminder that all mons in competitive should have their IVS set to 31 and there should be the ability to set your EVs to whatever you want so long as the max amount you have is 510 EVs total, with any nature and moveset you want provided, again, those moves are legal ones that Pokemon can naturally learn through level up or breeding.

This would be a healthy change for competitive Pokemon because it would make the game more about skill than luck. It would even the playing field and ensure that all matches are as close to skill-based as possible, with only the RNG inherent to a turn-based RPG left.

>>58656673
>right leaning japs don’t hack while leftist English shits do
Makes sense

>>58656685
>breeding/raising pokemon require luck
Are you retarded?

>>58654175
Some, not gonna say most, VGC players dont even care about playing the game, they just want to go competitively right away, so most of them dont even know how to breed mons.

>>58656685
>Reminder that all mons in competitive should have their IVS set to 31
This is the only contentious part of this post.
>and there should be the ability to set your EVs to whatever you want so long as the max amount you have is 510 EVs total
You can already do this. Reset EVs with berries or mochi, then EV them up again. Vitamins aren't limited to the first 100 EVs anymore.
>with any nature and moveset you want provided
Mints already do this and Move Relearners aren't a thing anymore, so you can just have a Pokemon remember any move whenever you want.
>or breeding.
Mirror Herbs ensure that you don't need to breed, Pokemon can just learn any egg moves from another Pokemon that already knows it.

>>58656685
IVs are bullshit I can agree on that, but nowadays its so simple to have a maxed IV and EV trained mon with the correctnature that its almost stupid to use hacked mons unless you are literally lazy as fuck.
Champions will probably make it even faster and easier.

>>58656698
Even then, you can max IVs nowadays too ingame, the only "shitty" thing is getting a specific IV to 0, mostly speed for TR users.

>>58656703
You only need one 0IV ditto to breed a trick room team

Pokemon breeders seething in this thread for wasting their time on some inane nonsense.

>>58654886
If you hack it correctly you can't tell. Those hacked percentages are probably way higher.

>>58656779
That VGC Gamefreak introduced more strict legality checks than what had been used before, catching a lot of people off guard. Hence >>58654800.
It's possible that more people hacked and were just cooler at it, but it's also possible some teams were completely legit.

>>58656775
bro is stuck in the past, seething at people that don't exist anymore

>>58656789
Whatever nonsense it is now, it's still a waste of time when you can make a whole competitive team ready to go in less than 5 minutes.

>>58656791
You can do that ingame, in 5 mins too.
I think you are the seether anon.

>>58656792
I think you are a liar.

>>58656794
NTA but I created 6 perfectly trained pokemon in ZA in less than 3 hours.
Shits easy as hell so there’s no excuse to hack besides laziness

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>>58656799
That's 3 hours you could be doing something else.

>>58656804
Using that logic I should be doing something productive instead of playing games

Erm chuds? Don't you know that asking competitive players to actually play the heckin game they're making thousands upon thousands off of in official tournaments is LITERALLY a warcrime???

>>58656804
Why are you playing video games, my dude?

File: 1761445289831601.webm (2.84 MB, 1536x864)

2.84 MB WEBM

Pokemon breeders SEETHING they wasted years of their lives breeding Pokemon and now have to play ZA slop to get their trained mons.

>>58656535
Unlike single player Pokemon, Super Mario Bros is fun.

>>58656799
>three hours to make a team
>not even play the game, just make the team to play the game
If making a team takes more than a minute or two per Pokemon then hacking is completely justified.

>>58657005
I played ranked matches to get everything I need. Do you not know how to grind in pokemon?
>>58656996
why're you even on this board

>>58657005
>zoom zoom zoom my zoomies this boomer grindset ain't skibidi at all, yall, frfr no cap it should be like my favoritie omgon fanfic simulator Showdown!!!

>>58654089
Legal genning and editing isn't cheating, retard. Using actual hacked mons and stats is.

>>58657014
na time investment in part of team building.

>>58657008
>why're you even on this board
Because the real part of Pokemon, multiplayer, is one of the best pvp games ever made.

File: IMG_0755.jpg (52 KB, 750x748)

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> Pokemon, multiplayer, is one of the best pvp games ever made.

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>I love pokemon so much, but I refuse to play the game, now give me my hacked pokemans

>>58654980
>and you need low/0 IVs on a Trick Room Pokemon
Also, it's a special attacker, so you also need low/0 IVs in attack.
GF made a Pokemon that always wants to have 2 low IV's (the one thing that's still a pain in the ass to get even with all of the QOL improvements).
Then they made it impossible to breed for and made it so you have to mash through a cutscene every time you reset.

>>58657028
Do you know any other games that mix the open and hidden information aspects of chess and poker so perfectly?

>>58657048
Choker

>>58656402
why the fuck is this even something you guys argue about this makes no sense
in what other serious competitive game do you have to go grind off stream in story mode to get your characters
this is retarded

>>58657048
counter strike, any moba

>>58657110
it's a monster collecting game you total tard

>>58653961
It depends on the kind of cheating. In my opinion, Pokemon with illegal stats and moves is unacceptable, but anything legally obtainable should be allowed and fair game to everyone.

I think they want to propagate the notion of training a team like in the anime and their other promotional material, but the reality is training Pokemon in the games is far different. Your Pokemon aren't gonna dodge more attacks or land more crits after you get to level 100 and 508 EVs, it's completely irrelevant to battling. No matter how you look at it, it's a time sink you'd need to do before the actual practicing.

But nowadays, mints and bottle caps make the grind so much easier. Why not catch or breed the Pokemon you want, then hack in the EVs and items you need for them? For egg moves or Dittos, you can hack in the parent mon.

I would've been a more adamant defender for skipping the grind 10+ years ago, but now I think the cheaters that get caught are just lazy and retarded.

>>58657113
mb I thought we were talking about a competitive game
you guys do your thing i dont really care

>>58657134
>monster collecting isn't part of comp
it literally is, so is team building and training your team
>you guys do your thing i dont really care
cared enough to post

>>58657136
can you think of any other comp games where you have to train your team before you can play
>cared enough to post
true I'm just really surprised this silly opinions apparently common with some autists here

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>>58657144
>I don't care yet will continue to post

Ursaluna Bloodmoon takes ~4 minutes per reset, because you have to mash A through the cutscenes.
Each IV has a 1/32 chance of being 0 by default, and you want both Attack and Speed to be 0, so that's 1/1024.
But Ursaluna Bloodmoon is special because it always has 3 IV's that are 31, so each IV has a 50% chance of being 31, and a 50% chance of following normal IV rules. So each one really has a 1/64 chance to be 0.
Meaning your odds of getting an Ursaluna Bloodmoon with 0 Attack and 0 Speed IV's is 1/4096. That's the same as the shiny odds post gen 6.
Imagine if a Pokemon needed to be a full odds shiny to be competitive. I don't blame anyone who cheats.

>>58657195
>>58655673

>>58655673
This but unironically.

>>58657219
Me when my fluttermane lead guesses wrong and gets one shot because they attacked after I taunted instead of setting up tr

>>58657195
You're exaggerating a few things here. Each reset is less than 2 mins with a strength sap tester, and you don't need an exact 0 IV since 1 IV is functionally the same at level 50, so the odds are halved. Also the speed is most important, you can settle for a higher attack IV and still be optimal for 99% of Foul Play/confusion situations.

It's still a grind but it's 1 Pokemon, you can be done with it and never have to worry about it again.

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>>58657195
what you're making me grind to fulfil a niche strong strat?
NNNNOOOOOOO I DON'T WANNA PUT ANY TIME INTO GETTING MY POKEMON, I WANT IT NOW!!!!

Where is the guy that posts "Dear VGC players, stop cheating X 10"?

>>58653961
So basically he's fucking stupid. Test team comp with whatever you can get in online and when you actually go to the tournament just spend 1 hour of your time capturing and training the mons. It's not that hard really.

>>58657270
like other anons have pointed out, these people don't play the games they just play vgc

>>58657234
>niche strong strat
7 of the 16 world championship teams used Trick Room. That's not niche.

>>58654275
Is there another game or esport that requires you to extensively grind ingame to compete? Legitimate question not even trolling.

>>58657369
MH

>>58657374
Not a pvp game nor an esport. Pokemon is barely an esport

>>58657377
>Pokemon is barely an esport
yet people are willing to cheat for it, kinda sad isn't it

>>58657369
All tcg games, like master duel or hearthstone, league used to have some unlocks related to grinding that weren’t just unlocking champions (which can either be grinding or paying), i think more mobas adopted something like that, but I don’t play the genre. I think r6 and some hero shooters require you to unlock characters.
For VGC autists, the problem is two fold. Some won’t even do the grind once, they can never be helped and would just cheat even if it were relatively painless and quick to do everything in game because they’re lazy, but then there’s the second problem which is that every time you want to change a team’s stat, you need to grind more. Let’s say you want X with a speed IV of 6 because it outspeeds top speed Incineroar but is still slower than min speed Pelipper (idk, just picking random things), but then you realize you actually want to be even slower or faster but not max speed, then you have to get a new one and that requires redoing all the grinding.

>>58657369
Lol is the biggest esport and you're expected to grind for champions

>>58657378
So is there another game fitting that description or not?

>>58657047
>Also, it's a special attacker, so you also need low/0 IVs in attack.
this is and always has been a meme. you dont need 0atk. show me one (1) game from any VGC competition ever that was decided by confusion/foul play damage on a special attacker

>>58657382
>>58657383
So you can say in good faith that the games listed, which require one time unlocks, are more or equally as grindy as VGC, which requires hatching/catching and training for basically EACH event?
The time needed to obtain a full team is documented on YouTube by various people. Given that, are you still asserting that beating the full game in Pokemon (a preliminary requirement) is LESS grindy than unlocking the full roster or whatever?

>>58657388
>The time needed to obtain a full team is documented on YouTube by various people
by one guy, who makes the most bad faith videos possible because hes shilling his rng manipulation discord server (hes a they/them btw)

>>58657369
The grind isn't extensive. There are a handful of Pokemon which benefit from 0 speed that can't quickly be obtained, and even fewer that are optimal with 0 speed and 0 attack.

The most time consuming grinds in modern Pokemon are purely superficial. Shiny, rare Pokeballs, and marks are all superficial. Even in ZA, the less common Alpha Pokemon are almost always worse than running a standard sized mon.

Everything that provides an edge that used to be time consuming has been streamlined in both ZA and SV, apart form 0 IVs, and it looks like Champions is going to rectify that a few months from now.

>>58657388
you can maker a comp team in less than 2 hours you fucking retard. The only real grind anymore is for trick room 0 ivs

This anon literally made a 6 man team in 3 hours >>58656799

>>58657390
>>58657392
>>58657393
>nobody answered the questions
picture me surprised

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>>58657396
>get 3 answers
>act like you received none
is this bait?

>here is a group of players that represent the most dedicated, passionate segment of a games fanbase. theyre so investaed that they fly all around the world (mostly out of their own pocket) every year to compete!
>NO IT'S RIDICULOUS TO EXPECT THEM TO OWN AND SPEND A COUPLE OF HOUR PLAYING THE GAMES WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU MEAN? CHEATING IS COMPLETELY JUSTIFIED!
expecting the average player to invest the time to mak a team is silly. expecting players who are already investing so much time and money into competing to invest a few more hours in a series they ostensibly love is perfectly reasonable

>>58657399
I got 3 replies and 0 answers to the question posed. Unless you are so ESL or illiterate that you didn't understand that to answer such a question you have to first confirm or deny (y/n), then explain your choice. You all effectively ran away

>>58657408
>to answer such a question you have to first confirm or deny (y/n), then explain your choice
the fact you cant see that all the replies to you were doing the latter and as such you should be able to easily infer thir answers to the former betrays the fact that your accusation of being ESL is projection

>>58657408
>you have to give a yes/no answer and nothing else
you can't infer what people are saying with context clues?

>>58657408
>they didnt explicitly use the words "you are wrong" or "i disagree" therefore they havent refuted me
holy terminal autism

>>58657396
Your question was answered, despite your premise being flawed. Pokemon isn't chess, it's not basketball, it's not Counterstrike. It's a different game with different requirements. It's a single-player narrative moncolle RPG that doubles as a social platform and a competitive sport. There's nothing comparable in the esport space, because all the games with a Pokemon-like structure failed to take off and often lacked the depth to warrant extensive play. The Megaman Battle Network games are similar, require extensive grinding, but they were incredibly niche. Pokemon is more comparable to an MMORPG, and comparing the two, Pokemon is the obvious winner in terms of accessibility and QoL. You don't need to grind for 1000 hours to be a top player, unlike an MMO. You can start fresh and be a contender. Not only is it more accessible, but Pokemon rewards players who stuck with the series by supporting old software and allowing old Pokemon to be used in competitive play via Bank and Home. A lapsed player can bring up 20+ year old Pokemon and start playing ranked with them. Modern Pokemon is so vastly different than the abysmal state of Gen 3. Modern Pokemon is so god damn generous with competitive QoL features and how it respects player's investments. The fact that I can run my Gale of Darkness Zapdos, and the items I needed to buff it are so plentiful I don't even need to think about that investment...find me another game that respects player's time and their investment in the games like that.

>>58657431
Items always feel plentiful until you decide to get the effort ribbon on 10+ boxes and realize 9,999,999 money is way too little

Why do TCG players cheat by only buying singles? Why don't they open packs until they get the cards they want like the rest of us?

>>58657442
you can buy single pokemon if you want, it's a thing people do.

>>58657414
>>58657418
>>58657421
>>58657431
so beating SV is less of a requirement than unlocking champions in LoL or whateey. Gotcha

>>58657442
You mean use proxies, not buy singles. Proxies are against the rules, buying singles is fine.
>>58657457
Nah bro, it’s ok, you only need to play for multiple years once so it doesn’t count.

>>58657461
>Nah bro, it’s ok, you only need to play for multiple years once so it doesn’t count.
False, for LoL you don't need to unlock every champion to compete properly. It's like saying you need to have the entire Pokedex to be battle ready to play VGC

>>58657469
power creep requires you to always buy the newest champion. the games literally grindy as hell

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>>58657438
In which game? Treasures are disgustingly easy to get in SV with the item printer. I only use the printer to get Apircorn balls, and I have virtually no use for money, so I just have a perpetually maxed out inventory of treasures. For the longest time I had fucking 999 PP Ups. I kept printing more into the void. Nothing with utilitarian value in this game is hard to get, the only rare items are Apircorn balls, and only obsessive weirdos like me bother to grind for those. I could just trade over some from my cfw Switch, but the printer lotto is just passive enough that I don’t mind grinding with it.

>>58657478
172 champions and some retard estimated about 880 hours to grind them all. That is 5 hours a champion, which is less than a single team for a single event on average

>>58657482
>That is 5 hours a champion
you can't unlock the more expensive champions in 6 hours. where the fuck did you get those numbers

>>58657483
I just found out that you can use real money to get RP and unlock champions lmao. So you really don't need much time and is probably less expensive than buying a DLC to get Enamorous and the horses kek

>>58657481
SV, I rng’d the printer so I was flush with all the balls I wanted but would run into cash problems whenever I wanted to buy multiple hundreds of vitamins. Not really a problem since I can just sell XP candies from raids or get the champ ribbon for some free money (though I dislike having party XP on since there’s stuff like my level 1 Platinum Regi that I would like to keep at that level)

>>58657486
each champion is like $10.
also people brought up, pros could just pay people to make them pokemon which also gets ride of grind without hacking

>>58657482
Even at the extreme end, resetting for a 0 ATK 0 Speed Bloodmoon would take about that long on average. But unlike grinding for champions, you could luck out and get it the first try. Obviously, you could get unlucky and exceed 5 hours, but looking at anecdotes and streams most people got it within 2-5 hours.

Enamorus is the biggest potential timesink, but that has more to do with the way PLA hides data from the player. It's a PLA issue more than a species-specific issue. If Champions doesn't rectify that, Pokemon Go surely will.

This sort of fringe case is also a great example of why Pkhex is a valuable tool and not just a hackmon printer. Pokemon Ranger is another such case, where using external tools lets you completely wipe save data, restoring the Manaphy event.

A lot is said about Pkhex being a solution to GF's self imposed problems, with people drawing a comparison to Gaben's famous quote about software piracy. We're at the point where hacking mons has become more of a hassle than just playing the game, with very few exceptions. Champions is probably going to make modified mons irrelevant, but TPC's obsession with locking down save data and preventing cloud saves is going to be a problem moving forward. I take comfort knowing all my important mons are backed up on my server, even if my Switch was compromised my roster from 20+ years of playing are safe and can be restored. I'm kind of worried about the future for these games, with Z-A being a point of no return, and Gen 10 being on Switch 2. Hopefully we get a solution for backing up mons down the road.

>>58657492
So for half an hour of first world pay you get a champion? Pretty good if you ask me. 3 champions makes a DLC which gives you like 2-3 exclusive mons, but with zero grinding

>>58657491
Can't you just KO the Regi to avoid it gaining any XP?

>>58657510
I guess you have a lot of experience in preparing competitive teams for VGC and you don't find that process plain moronic right? So much that you don't wish for it to change

>>58657518
You're trying really hard to make your conclusion fit, even when it's obviously not being said.

I've been at the competitive grind since Gen 3 was contemporary. Every QoL improvement has been a welcome change, with the exception of EXP Share being always-on. More options is always a good thing. I like that weirdos can still EV train with the power items if they really want to, but I sure as hell won't go back to that.

I'm excited that Champions is going to streamline teambuilding and tweaking. I'm not going to lose sleep over a drop down menu replacing the Modest Mint or Bottle Caps. I'm not precious about any of these systems, I'm not precious about the potential removal of IVs for Champions, and I think those fringe cases like resetting for Bloodmoon, or not knowing the stats for Enamorus, are goofy oversights that serve no purpose. I literally advocated for legit players using Pkhex to check Enamorus. No sane person is going to advocate on behalf of playing PLA from start to finish, dozens of times, just for a new IV reroll. Nobody is going to claim that system was good. You're not even strawmaning here, this is just you hallucinating an entire archetype of competitive player who simply doesn't exist.

>>58657538
all of that just because you don't get irony

>>58657515
I lead it, yeah, but its a little silly i have to do that

>>58657598
Maybe invest some time to workshop your jokes. Or just gen a funnier joke, all the cool kids do it