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What was it like being a PAL gamer in the 90s? Were the conversions really that bad?
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>>10819397
You just played the games and didn't know any better. I got confused when 6th gen games started asking if you want the game to run at 60hz or 50hz, I'd just pick at random
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>>10819397
Before youtube, we thought we had perfectly fine versions of the games. Then people started uploading gameplay to youtube, and now even we don't hold much value in the PAL version of games.
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>>10819397
i'm not your buddy, pal
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>>10819415
That sucks
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>>10819397
>Were the conversions really that bad?
South American PAL fag from the 90's here. Imagine you must play a game 20% slower and with black bars on the top and bottom of your tv (not cropping but widening). Yes it was horrible, specially for games like Mortal Kombat II who relies on speed and reaction for a decent gameplay. Trust me, having a slow fat ass Sub Zero wasn't much of a excitement back then.
>>
it was like playing low quality home system arcade ports. the shit was all you had so you just rolled with it.
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>>10819496
It was worse when it came to music, because a lot of PAL games did not play them at the correct speed.
https://youtu.be/cDd_GlynA6A
https://youtu.be/lHs_2tJvO58

Though there's the rare occasion that the PAL version actually has the correct music playback the composer intended and the NTSC version is the wrong one.
https://youtu.be/4_gObHt1uZA
https://youtu.be/ZNpJ12alVRg
>>
If yuro posters on here are to be believed, the PAL versions of the games are the way the developers truly intended the games to be played and NTSC versions are the inferior ports.
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>>10819397
> Were the conversions really that bad
Most of the time there was no conversion, aside from maybe the music speed. Its actually fundamentally impossible to correctly speed scale a game, and when it was attempted resulted in a mangled mess with various parts of the game running at various incorrect speeds.
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>>10819397
>wasn't alive in the 90s
Fuck off, secondary.
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>>10819517
pal has deeper sub bass. so it's superior for raw bangers
>>
we were not aware of the problem. the few games that were imported were often games not published in Europe.
therefore rarely the opportunity to compare.

today people find it acceptable to play at 25fps on Playstation 5 while PCs run the same game at 60 or 120fps.

at the time going from 30 to 25fps was not a drama.
>>
>>10819847
It's not the fps that's the issue. If a game wasn't properly optimized for 50hz the game literally runs 20%(ish) slower
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>>10819852
Wasn't really an issue with the big names though
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>>10819397
It what we were used to. Didn't realize games were running slower until years later.
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>>10819503
Arcade MK games run at 53hz though, which is closer to PAL speed. After playing NTSC Trilogy for years, I was surprised how much slower arcade UMK3 is.
>>
It was like living in a concentration camp
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I was an Amiga/PC player. The only consoles I had were handhelds. So it never affected me at all.

Well, Amiga has PAL/NTSC divide too but the majority of its games were made for PAL, not NTSC so PAL was the better choice.
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>>10819524
You don't need to invent scenarios in your head to fuel your persecution complex, anon. That's just weird.
>>
You only really knew if you paid attention to magazines but even then you most likely didn't have a point of reference to notice when it came to playing games. Nowadays I emulate the PAL version of European-made games.
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>>10819432
I'm not your PAL, SECAM.
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>>10820117
>Arcade MK games run at 53hz though, which is closer to PAL speed.
Not him but I imagine console PAL versions were not optimized so they were running on slowdown mode.
In that case it’s not directly comparable to 53hz Arcade.
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>>10819797
>pal has deeper sub bass
WTF are you on about?
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>>10819586
>Its actually fundamentally impossible to correctly speed scale a game
Well that depends on how the game is programmed.
But back then they just programmed with 60hz refresh rate in mind for consoles because it was more predictable and easier.

IMO they should have just bitten the bullet and go 60hz for PAL too. They should have just told European customers to nut up and buy a CRT that supports NTSC and this would put even more pressure in European CRT Manufacturers to put NTSC decoders on their TVs too.
Would have solved so many headaches for developers.
Fucking insane how long that 50hz bullshit went on for.
>>
>>10820145
>the PAL version of European-made games.
But some of those are inferior, such as many Rare games
Rare was definitely making games for the US Market
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>>10819524
meds
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>>10819397
You said specifically 90s, so it wasn't really a problem. Most TVs at that time already went with digital processing components. Many euro TVs later on had 100hz mode to reduce flicker and had auto scaling correction for black bars, so no one really noticed we had inferior versions.
And the whole cherry picking is weird. Like yeah yeah, sonic was slower and had shittier music but then you guys had Truxton with incorrect music speed as well in NTSC region because the devs for some reason optimized shit specifically for PAL region. It was just a bit more wild back then because people didn't stress over autistic things to achieve "perfection".
>>
99% of us honestly didn't know any better and as a result, didn't really care. Like >>10820145 says, only some magazines would really bring this up and most of us were happy just playing the games - You'd really only notice it if you'd emulate NTSC versions later. Even then, a lot of devs would do some level of optimization to make it run closer to NTSC versions - Rare is a good example.

Then every once in a while you'd have stuff like Sonic the Hedgehog were they didn't even bother changing the playback speed of the music:

https://youtu.be/nSSYo0npMhA?si=ZrYZlSB3-3NiI0y1

In retrospect, its completely fucked, especially considering PAL games were usually more expensive, we got them later than in the US, and many titles didn't get brought over at all.

I have an older friend who was a big JRPG head during the PSX days and he's talked about how the hardcore JRPG fans in PAL regions hated many of the PAL ports Square made.

https://youtu.be/Y-cniOnsrds?si=0tM2OBF45dHmHvw6

Imagine FFIX, a game that runs notoriously slow on NTSC hardware but now running 16.67% slower on top of it.

Same guy always brings up an interview with a Square employee around this time who basically threw his hands up and went "lmao PAL ports are muri desu" when asked why Squares PAL ports were so awful
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>>10820202
The sad thing is, I am pretty sure most PAL tvs, even those not designed for it, will actually sync to 60hz. 50hz gaming probably never needed to happen in the first place. Consoles could have included a 50/60hz switch in case of a tv not tolerating 60hz. Also, literal NTSC sucks, we would never want that if we could have PAL60.
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>>10820228
> Many euro TVs later on had 100hz mode
I think this was a rich people thing, over the years we have had dozens of CRTs including new ones bought right at the end of availability, I have never even seen a 100hz tv let alone actually owning one.
>>
>>10819397
i was NTSCfag
but not all PAL versions were made equal
i remember trying PAL super metorid once. plays great, youd never even be able to tell. i cant imagine the amount of work that went into that happening tho. most were just ~15% slower and sucked dick

its all relative tho. like if you were in PAL region, you werent talking to or playing games with NTSCfags. so with no comparison, it just doesnt matter
its only in retrospect, and with both versions readily available, that it becomes what it is now: an obviously inferior version
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>>10820190
The lower end of bass frequency is called sub bass. PAL signals pick up more of them. Simple as
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>>10819397
I was gonna make a thread about this actually

>grow up with PAL
>go to download ROMs
>know NTSC versions are better
>PAL is more nostalgic

It's hell. Also sucks if you have savefiles you want to import
>>
Also being PAL is really great if you wanna break free of the coomlector retardation
>have huge collection of PAL
>find out my games are squashed or slower or other
Video game selling, here I come
>>
>>10820315
>i remember trying PAL super metorid once
everyone used to play a PAL Super Metroid ROM with German subtitles for some reason
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>>10820228
The US version of Turrican for MD also ran too fast.
>>
I'd imagine some games turned out better than others?
>>
sometimes if I'm struggling with a game I'll try the PAL version to see if the slower speed helps
>>
No one knew there was a problem, and it's exaggerated these days.
People act like the games are ruined, as opposed to just being slightly different.
It's like watching a movie at a cropped aspect ratio. Whatever. People did that for years before we all got wide screen TV.
>>
I remember PAL FF7 looking totally fucked up compared to my CHAD import
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>>10820630
>No one knew there was a problem
true
>it's exaggerated these days
false
15% slower is gonna be noticeable to all but the most blind and deaf of retards. especially so if its the music. thatll stick out to literally anyone who played NTSC
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>>10820880
It is really exaggerated these days. Americans seem to have some sort of supiriority complex over it, I guess they are compensating for something they lack
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>>10819397
Didn't care then, don't care now. I still play my PAL consoles and enjoy them just fine.
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>>10820934
There is a general autistic obsession these days about everything having to be cycle accurate and played on a Sony PVM, etc..
>>
It's not like most of us had a frame of reference how fast it was going on NTSC consoles, even now it's only really noticeable with the Master System and Mega Drive
>>
Even if I didn't know, one thing I realized after the fact is that I tended to lean towards replaying games that were properly optimized or developed in PAL countries more because those games were more fun to me.

Even then I had standards and I didn't even know it.

Anyone still playing badly optimized PALshit in this day & age has no taste and no standards whatsoever and I wish we cpuld identify those posters with a red cross over their name or something so we know their opinion are worthless.
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>>10820207
I play Psygnosis games, not Rare games.
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>>10820998
You could just not play them.
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>>10820937
Yep I've seen that, but there are also people trying to virtually extend the size of their penis using these arguments. I suppose it's linked to autism I guess
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>>10820880
>noticeable
So what? It's still fun.
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>>10819397
I didn't even know it was contentious at the time.

>>10819415
I still prefer PAL for some games where the music is different due to licensing or other things. Sometimes you want it to feel exactly as it was.
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>>10821079
>So what?
if its noticeable by any old fool, not just the spergs of /vr, then its not exaggerated.
were not talking like milliseconds of input lag or whatever /vr/ shits itself over. were talking the entire game, and oftentimes the music too, running at like 83% speed

>It's still fun
its fine if its what you got
but thats not the situation anymore. both versions are almost always available. theres not any real reason to play PAL nowadays outside of the novelty, or to see how good/bad it could get.
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>>10820304
They weren't that expensive but it was a terrible feature that people just kept turned off.
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>>10820880
>especially so if its the music
only with the Mega Drive
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>>10820315
>if you were in PAL region, you werent talking to or playing games with NTSCfags
Sure most of us didn't have pen pals in US or Japan but it was a known and widely discussed issue.
We had import shops, we had console mods, we had piracy
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>>10821142
nah man theres some really bad NES ones too
i remember i told my roommate about roms/emus a while back. he went off and tried to get it all set up himself. he thought the [E] stood for "english"
he played about five seconds of double dragon then came over and asked me wtf he did wrong. the guy hadnt played it in prolly 20yrs, and he knew right away because the music was way too slow

but youre not wrong. the way the gennys FM channels work, pretty much all the envelopes need to be adjusted or it will dramatically affect the sound when running at a different speed
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>>10821161
The NES was kind of a non-factor in Europe.
It was even outsold by the Master System in the UK.

A ton of NES games never had PAL releases at all.
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>>10821196
But PAL famiclones were massive for over a decade, shittily playing NTSC games on pirate cartridges
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>>10821196
>>10821203
wasnt dendy 50hz/PAL?
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>>10821203
Where? Eastern Europe? South America?

I never saw one in my country.
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>>10821196
The UK isn't Europe. At the time many different countries in Europe were a different markets with different publishers and distributors. There are many countries in which the NES was much of a phenomenom as in the rest of the world. In my country every kid who was into video games had an NES, and adults would use the word "Nintendo" for consoles even well into the late 90s. Meanwhile I knew a grand total of 2 people who had an SMS over the years.

If you check NES release games you'll see plenty of games released even up to 1994 in Europe, there were even a few games made by European devs only released in Europe. In fact the last NES bundle was NES+The Smurfs released in France and Germany in 1995. This should tell you the lasting power it had over there.
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>>10821207
so thats like most of central yurop and all of eastern yurop and russia

i always considered UK as its own thing desu, since it tends to just do its own thing in terms of music/art/vidya/whatever. a lot of trends over the years that were big there and almost nowhere else. like britpop. we didnt have anything like that over here in the states. bummer too, we just had shitty grunge band #876986597697
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>>10821214
It didn't do well outside the UK too.
The NES had 8 million units sold in all of Western Europe, while the SMS sold 6.8 million.
>>
Black bars were generally more annoying for most people.
Either way most kids just didn't know any way to get an imported console.
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>>10819397
Quite simply, I didn't know what it was like to play the NTSC versions, nor was I aware of the difference in game speed in relation to PAL games that weren't optimised. Luckily it's easier now to play NTSC games and you don't need to worry about whether your TV is compatible or not.
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>>10820559
Thing I heard + a guess.
Everyone = speed runners I presume in your case. PAL super metroid did actually make a change meant to compensate for the 50hz slowness. They upped the speed of samus... and ONLY samus. Everything else is still slower allowing for some unique PAL super metroid shenanigans. For instance, in the chozo statue fight at the start of the game you can grab the item and then move fast enough to leave before the door closes.
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>>10821301
no i think hes talking about the ol days, way before twitch. a lot of romsites back then had the same shitty or mislabeled dumps of roms. or some of them had intros or trainers on them.

i definitely remember getting a version of SM that had krautrunes in the intro
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>>10821154
>widely discussed issue.
It wasn't.
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>>10821243
>Source for those numbers: some estimations made by some guy
>also Sega is now known for inflating their sale numbers by counting what they sold to stores, regardless of whether the store sold them or not
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>>10820228
>Many euro TVs later on had 100hz mode to reduce flicker
This was garbage and resulted in double-image effect in motion you idiot
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>>10820541
>PAL signals pick up more of them.
No they don’t. PAL has fuck all to do with audio.
Stop shitposting.
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>>10822458
Yeah they do. That's why the image is better quality because there is more bandwidth to carry the thicker bass signal
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>>10819397
We had the better looking console and Terranigma and Secrets of Evermore.
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>>10822460
I said stop shitposting
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>>10822461
>Secret of Evermore
Was released on US first
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>>10820296
>The sad thing is, I am pretty sure most PAL tvs, even those not designed for it, will actually sync to 60hz.
But many of them only could do it in monochrome and not in color. which is where the issue lies
That said many of them started to have NTSC decoders in them so it became a non-issue
50hz was such a goddamn colossal mistake
As usual corpos don’t have the balls to fix shit so others have to pick up the slack

Just think of all those PAL Cartridges and CDs...
Most of them are beyond fucking worthless now
This could have been prevented so easily if copos weren’t such retarded cheapskates looking to save every cent
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>>10822468
>Just think of all those PAL Cartridges and CDs...
>Most of them are beyond fucking worthless now
This isn't always the case, unless there's some extra region locking PAL Mega Drive/Master System games run fine in NTSC consoles. It's the consoles themselves that are cucked
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>>10819397
We didn't know better and had just as much fun.
The real issue was when you had a modded console (everyone) and got an odd NTSC game, your PAL console and older TVs would play it in black and white. One particular friend had that old tv and we would most often gather at his place. We played endless hours of Pro Skater 2 in black and white. No one noticed any difference in framerate or speed back then.

I remember having an NTSC version of RE3 for my PSone and it played fine in color but it would have shitty black bars that I remember annoyed me even back then. Then I got a version with a trainer that allowed me to choose between pal and ntsc.

That RE3 cracktro is some next level nostalgia

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehVIQZi6xb4
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>>10820296
>Also, literal NTSC sucks, we would never want that if we could have PAL60.
Tbf most games worth playing(Japanese games) were designed with NTSC-J in mind.
We recently found that even differences such as phosphor color space matter.
Japanese CRT TVs used slightly different phosphors so nobody outside Japan really played games exactly as they were intended by the developers. American and Euro CRTs had different phosphors from Japanese ones.
I believe it even depended on the era since pre-1985 or whatever they used different standards.
But the crux of it all is that now we can actually emulate those phosphors with HDR.

Just crazy to think about.
Makes you wonder if American-developed games for Japanese consoles(MD, SNES etc.) were also tuned for those Japanese phosphors or not.
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>>10822472
Your eyes also don't have the same genetical iris material as japanese people do so you will never experience those games colors as japanese devs intended.
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>>10822470
>unless there's some extra region locking PAL Mega Drive/Master System games run fine in NTSC consoles.
But they play at a lower framerate which makes them inferior.
You can take it or leave it for some games(some people swear by PAL versions of Crash Bandicoot because they had less bugs and were more polished etc.) but in general pre-Dreamcast you always get lower framerate.
And even after Dreamcast the support for 60fps PAL PS2 was still almost non-existent and spotty on Gamecube/Xbox
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>>10822475
>But they play at a lower framerate which makes them inferior.
No they don't, a lot of the time it's the exact same rom in the NTSC cart as the PAL cart. The console determines the speed the game runs at, this is why 60hz mods for PAL consoles are a thing
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>>10822474
This is an easily noticeable difference
It’s why people argued about the Mario 1 sky color being purple or blue for ages(despite Miyamoto himself saying that he picked a purple-ish hue for the sky himself)
Recent discoveries cleared up pretty much everything
It’s not as simple of an issue as ’’LOL PAL is so much better than NEVER THE SAME COLOR XD!!!’’
>>
>>10819397

All but 2 of my PSX games (Wipeout and Tekken for anyone who really cares) were pirated NTSC versions, and I can tell you the difference was huge. Tekken 2 and 3 were massive example of games literally ruined by PAL, I even remember magazines pointing this out.

The ridiculous thing is 99% of UK TV's had no problem with NTSC input, and if you found one that did you just removed the back and made a very minor tweak to the vertical hold and you was good to go unless that tv was from the 70's

I guess 1% of people being technically illiterate was reason enough to sell poorer versions though.
>>
retards saying "it's not that big a big deal" "it's overblown"

No.
>>
>>10822480
Oh come off it, there were plenty of games which were fucked in PAL

>this is why 60hz mods for PAL consoles are a thing
And they are worthless because they still run at a slower clock rate than NTSC machines even after modding
>>
>>10820296
My cheapo old CRT will happily do 60Hz RGB (where the colour encoding is neither PAL nor NTSC), but NTSC composite comes out black and white. Not a problem for my mega drive, SNES, Saturn etc since I use RGB cables for all of them, but it unfortunately means I can't play my twin Famicom on it since it displays in monochrome. Instead I have to play it on my LCD "smart" TV, which somehow still has a SCART socket despite being purchased new in 2021, since that handles NTSC fine.

Back in the day when certain PS2 or GameCube games asked to select 50hz or 60hz, we'd get monochrome since we didn't have RGB cables back then and our TV didn't support NTSC.
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>>10822506
"games were fucked in PAL" is because they weren't optimized for that region and were for the most part left unchanged from their NTSC counterparts, hence why they run fine at 60hz, like I said with the Mega-Drive and Master System it's the CONSOLE that makes them run at 50hz. I'm not sure why you're struggling to understand this
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>>10822507
I reckon you could easily get a set with a NTSC decoder in it

I honestly can’t wait until OLEDs hit 1000hz and become bright enough(or MicroLED and QDEL/NanoLED come out).
8K 1000hz with a RetroTink kind of scaler will be enough to emulate CRTs, and if we get manufacturers to stop sucking cock they will also put 0 lag electronics in them ala ZisWorks.

From there only Lightguns(won’t work without some kind of workaroun at least, since an unmodified NES Zapper for example requires 150000hz to emulate properly which we are so far away from).
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>>10822475
>But they play at a lower framerate which makes them inferior.
PAL games run correctly when played on a NTSC system provided they haven't been optimised for PAL. If they have been optimised to run at the correct speed on PAL they run too fast on NTSC. If they've been optimised to run full screen on PAL then part of the screen will be cut off on NTSC.
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>>10822518
>"games were fucked in PAL" is because they weren't optimized for that region and were for the most part left unchanged from their NTSC counterparts
Ok and how do you explain the countless among countless of NES, SNES, Mega Drive etc. games which had correct audio speed?
Come on, stop acting like all PAL games were Sonic 1, they clearly weren’t and majority of PAL releases had their code tweaked for correct audio playback.
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>>10822520
True, I'm pretty sure there are plenty of CRTs that could do it, but I don't have a car and don't really want to pay out the arse for delivering a chunky CRT. I got this one by having my mum ask her Facebook friends for one, who are mostly homeowners in their 50s who don't play video games, and therefore have CRTs gathering dust in their lofts. That meant I got this one for only a fiver (actually free, but I gave them a box of chocolates as a thank you), but didn't get to be very picky about it.
>>
>>10822539
I wonder if somekind of cheap scaler like a Retrotink 2x or something could remedy your Twin Famicom woes.
Shouldn’t be too complex to convert NTSC to SCART RGB.
Might be worth looking into.
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>>10822521
see >>10822524
>>
>>10822524
>Minor modification to the game code that checks the HZ of the console and adjusts the music speed accordingly
I just tested a bunch of PAL roms on a 60hz console and the only one that had incorrect music speed at was Shinobi III
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>>10822524
>games which had correct audio speed?

Because audio is the easiest thing to adapt. Even in 8-16 bit games, musics had a tempo, you literally only have to change that and it's good. Ofentimes the timing on the musics would get changed, but that doesn't mean the timing of GAMEPLAY is changed. And that's when they did bother adapting the music, as another anon said, in many cases they didn't.
It's not like gameplay has a "tempo" setting.
Even when games did get optimized it would often lead to timing discrepencies, like SMB1 PAL which actually runs 10% faster; or Exhumed on Saturn which hitscan weapons have a higher firing rate than in the NTSC versions. This should tell you how difficult it is to adapt gameplay precisely.
>>
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Reminder that statistically, half of the people who claim real hardware is better and "emulation just isn't like the real thing" are actually PALfags who play shitty 50hz versions just so they can be like their favourite e-celebs

Shit, there are even European e-celebs who make all their videos using PAL versions.
>>
>>10822468
> monochrome and not in color
>>10822507
> but NTSC composite comes out black and white

That is why I said PAL60 not NTSC. As for 60hz mode being monochrome, some consoles are retarded, and output NTSC rather than PAL60, I know the PS2 does this.
>>
>>10822568
Sonic 2 is an example of this. It uses the same ROM worldwide and when played on a PAL system the music runs at the correct speed but the gameplay is still slow.
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>>10822568
>This should tell you how difficult it is to adapt gameplay precisely.
PC games have been doing that since the 286 came out
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>>10822616
And a fuckton of PC games completely failed to, and have problems when you use a CPU faster than it was made for
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>>10822574
This is why I don't bother with real hardware and just emulate the 60Hz versions of everything. Even Nintendo's virtual console on the Wii would sometimes use the inferior 50Hz PAL versions of games.
>>
>>10822616
PCs used monitors and were not limited to having to conform to the broadcast standards of different regions.

>>10822621
Yeah this especially back in the DOS era but can still be a problem now when playing games at high framerates.
>>
>>10822629
Exactly. They didn't have a fixed frequency to rely on and instead properly timed their games.
>>
>>10822562
>>10822568
This means that the ROM was tweaked
So if you play a PAL ROM like that on a NTSC Console the audio will play incorrectly
>>
>>10822578
Bro, I think you misquoted
>>10820296 did not mention the mochrome thing

PAL60 was a later invention
And yes the PS2 had shit support for PAL, most PAL versions of PS2 games simply do not support 60fps because Sony didn’t give a shit

It took until the HD era in 2005 before this issue was finally completely resolved, and even then I think the Wii still had that issue too to some extent sometimes
Fucking insane
>>
>>10822639
>This means that the ROM was tweaked
Not necessarily devs were likely aware they'd need to adjust the music for PAL during development. But at this point you're just baiting or are genuinely retarded
>>
>>10822629
>PCs used monitors and were not limited to having to conform to the broadcast standards of different regions.
I don’t know why you even brought this up
Consoles never completely adhered to official NTSC or PAL specs
They were always off-spec

Many PAL TVs had NTSC decoders but devs couldn’t be fucked and only catered to the lowest common denominator
>>
>>10822639
Sonic 2 uses the exact same ROM in Europe as it does in America and Japan, you can do a binary compare and they're identical, but the music is correct in all regions, even though the gameplay is slower in PAL. This is true for loads of games. It's really simple for a game to check the region register to see whether the console is PAL or NTSC and adjust the music playback speed accordingly, without needing separate versions for each region.
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>>10822645
Are you fucking retarded you absolute mouthbreather?
I said that if you play a 50hz PAL Cart that had the audio optimized for 50hz, in a 60hz NTSC Machine then in that case the audio will not play back correctly because the audio was optimized for 50hz.
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>>10822651
>50hz PAL Cart
This isn't a thing
>audio optimized for 50hz, in a 60hz NTSC Machine then in that case the audio will not play back correctly because the audio was optimized for 50hz.
You've had multiple posters explain why this isn't the case
>>
>>10822648
>but the music is correct in all regions
Yes if you play Sonic 2 PAL version on a 50hz PAL Mega Drive the music will sound correct
But if you play it on a NTSC Mega Drive/Genesis then it won’t

Btw the conversion of the sound isn’t perfect either
PAL version of Sonic 3 & Knuckles still sounds a little slower compared to NTSC version https://forums.sonicretro.org/index.php?threads/sonic-the-hedgehog-50hz-effect.35284/page-2
I’m pretty sure it’s the same case with PAL Sonic 2 too

IMO in 3&K’s case it’s probably the clock rate differences
Obviously not as egregious as Sonic 1, but not perfectly identical to NTSC
>>
>>10822651
You are being retarded here, thats not how it works.
Games usually check for region and adjust music playback rate accordingly, i.e. the same rom works just fine in either a PAL or NTSC region.
Also the 'muh PAL slowdown' is a bit of a meme as well. Most of the time I don't even notice the difference unless they are presented side by side. i.e. system was still in PAL mode without me realising it.
>>
>>10822652
You are wrong you retarded mouthbreather
Not only won’t optimized audio PAL games play audio correctly on a NTSC Machine but even if you play them on a PAL Machine the audio playback won’t be perfectly identical to NTSC because PAL Machines ran at lower clock rates
See >>10822658
>>
>>10822658
You're not listening, I just said there IS NO PAL version of sonic 2. It is completely identical. I have PAL cartridges and an NTSC console right next to me, the music sounds the same.
>>
>>10822660
Holy fuck you are retarded.
>>
>>10822662
>It is completely identical.
No it is not.
If that were the case it would run as slow as Sonic 1. But it doesn’t.
>>
>>10822661
The audio on a cartridge isn't a CD or a recording lmao. It can be adjusted according to the frequency of the console and isn't tied to game speed. I literally tested a bunch of PAL roms and for the most part they have the correct audio speed
>>
>>10822667
All a game has to do is read register $A10001 and check bit 6 to see what speed the console is running at. Then it can adjust the speed the music plays at.

Sonic 2 does this check, Sonic 1 does not. That's why sonic 2 is able to have the correct music without having a "PAL version".
>>
>>10822669
>I literally tested a bunch of PAL roms and for the most part they have the correct audio speed
Did you test them on a PAL Machine or an NTSC one?
On a PAL Machine they will be pretty close to NTSC.
On a NTSC Machine they won’t play correctly, unless the ROM has a bunch of detailed regional flags like with Neo Geo AES/MVS.
>>
>>10822680
>Unless the ROM has a bunch of detailed regional flags

That's exactly what most of them do.
>>
>>10822674
So you’re saying that a PAL ROM will just switch to NTSC flag when played on a NTSC Console?
I thought only stuff like Neo Geo had that capability.
>>
>>10822680
NTSC. PAL Aladdin and Shinobi III had audio that was too fast but the rest including specific PAL region release (Castlevania: The New Generation) had the correct audio speed
>>
>>10822685
No, most consoles had that ability. That's also how region locking works.
>>
>>10822683
What about games that were optimized for PAL like Streets of Rage 2 which had higher resolution but lower framerate?
Do those also flag to NTSC when played on a NTSC console?

And what about stuff like PAL Crash Bandicoot games on PSX?
Would they be able to sync to 60hz/lower resolution when played on a NTSC PSX?
>>
>>10822661
Just give up and fuck off, you are too dumb to provide any meaningful discussion here
>>
>>10822674
How did a first-party game like Sonic 1 fuck up so badly?
>>
>>10822703
Sega being sega
>>
>>10822685
Yes, pretty much. A lot of games still don't run at the correct gameplay speed because that's more effort, but most mega drive games play the music at the correct speed whatever region console you play it on. Some of the earliest mega drive games don't check the region at all though, which is why sonic 1 has slower music on a PAL console.

Games sometimes had other changes based on region checking too. Streets of Rage says "Bare Knuckle" on the title screen if you run it on a Japanese console, for example, and in Sonic 2 Tails is "Miles 'Tails' Prower" outside of Japan but just Tails in Japan. Both of these are done using the same ROM by checking the region flags.

>>10822695
I'm not sure about streets of rage 2, I haven't played it. It could optimise the gameplay speed based on the region flag, or they might have just made separate ROMs. As for PlayStation games, the console had strict region locking (which was more like an optional feature on the mega drive) and games will actually set the console's video mode during initialisation. I have a chipped European PS1 that gets around region locking, and when I play an American game it sets the console mode to 60Hz, when I play a European game it sets it to 50Hz.
>>
>>10822707
>Games sometimes had other changes based on region checking too. Streets of Rage says "Bare Knuckle" on the title screen if you run it on a Japanese console
If you have a region switch mod you can flip it between regions during the intro text scroll and the incoming text will change language while not changing the already displayed text. I always found that interesting
>>
>>10822707
>and in Sonic 2 Tails is "Miles 'Tails' Prower" outside of Japan but just Tails in Japan.
That is actually very ironic because Miles Prower was what Yasushi Yamaguchi wanted to name him but he was vetoed by Sega of America who wanted him to be named Tails

>As for PlayStation games, the console had strict region locking
Ah that sucks.
PAL versions of Crash games are the best versions but they’re stuck to 50hz.
>>
>>10822729
Ah, my mistake, I got the two reversed. In America/Europe he's called "Tails" while if your console is Japanese it says Miles.
>>
>>10822736
That makes more sense
>>
>>10820202
As someone who has done tech support for relatives and parents I can see why they wanted to make it as fool proof as possible. People were just not technically minded and yes even something as simple as plugging in the yellow cable stumped a few people. Imagine peoples reaction when playing a game and its black and white. Technically N64 and Ps1 could have had an in game menu to change the refresh rate but sega saturn you just put in a switch to make every games 60 hz.

>>10820228
Many people still had tv's from the 80's.

>>10820296
pal 60 is good, faster speed a compatible, a modded sms will be pal 60 and you can make a pal 60 megadrive with a simple crystal on one of the pins of a chip
>>
>>10822468
For ps1 there is a way to make games run ok but its annoying, I think it would be possible to have a hacked bios with this built in. Yes you can use ode's but I still like the feeling of putting in my game I've had since I was a kid I got for christmas.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_BOM-csf-4

N64 yep nothing you can really do and most games feel slower too but a few are alright.

Most early Snes games will work in 60hz if you disable the lockout chip but many after 1994 you will need to toggle the hz.

Most megadrive games will work in 60 hz but after around aladdin they did hz detection requiring a switch at while point you might as well use a flash cart.

Majority of nes games work at 60 hz except for most rare games that use the extra v blank time and castlevania has the wrong colours.

Sms no issues most of the time but some pal games have severe glitches in 60 hz.

Atari 2600 frame rate is in the program with a couple of games optimized but generally not a big deal since its real arbitrary.

So I'd say at least 2/3 of the games play perfectly on a 60hz system, just buy a cheap japanese system.

>>10822695
stuff like super skidmarks will roll the image if you try and play it in 60 hz, too bad it would be super cool to have hi rez 60 hz

>>10819397
Thought it would be cool to run real hardware and an emulator at the time and thought something was broken with the emulator because it would desync after a minute. The tv we used had extreme overscan so we could barely see the borders. Nowdays watching old tv shows like bad influence when they the mortal kombat on sega megadrive tournament it looks absolutely horrible.
>>
>>10822813
>stuff like super skidmarks will roll the image if you try and play it in 60 hz
Super Skidmarks is a PAL exclusive so it makes sense that it wouldn’t have any NTSC flags in it

I was asking about SoR2 since I was curious if the PAL cartridge just flagged for NTSC or not
>>
>>10822789
>Many people still had tv's from the 80's.
Many PAL TVs from 80s had NTSC decoders in them.
It’s the TVs from 70s which didn’t so 80s PAL Consoles being 50hz set the precedent and the status quo didn’t change for decades
>>
>>10822574
PALfag here, I play NTSC on hardware and PAL on emulator.
>>
>>10819397
PALtards played garbage like Spectrum and Amiga. I don't think they are even sentient
>>
>>10821214
Finland here, never seen a Sega System in real life.
>>
>>10820934
Foreskin?
:(
>>
>>10823079
>>:(
>>
>>10819524
the entire rest of the thread disagrees with your schizo rambling
>>
To this day I still feel like the OST of Life Force on NES works best in PAL format. It feels way sped up in NTSC.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSWEuRGOyGY

vs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYL5cz8Q-7o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWKTf_4lqzk

I believe however that some tracks in the original arcade game Salamander actually plays at the PAL speed originally which might explain how I feel this way, but I could be wrong.
>>
>caring about color coding when RGB is avaible
>>
>>10822971
didnt know there was even electricity in fingol yurts



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