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Why the hell were these two optional? It serves no purpose because getting them feels so natural and being able to bypass their recruitment only screws up the game since now they can't do a whole lot in the story or appear in the FMVs. There's not even anything particularly "special" about them. It's not like Gogo in FFVI or Magus in Chrono Trigger.
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>>10934716
>Why the hell were these two optional?
Dev time and budgets are a bitch.
> It serves no purpose because getting them feels so natural
I mean in regard to Vincint yeah there's no reason you should skip the Shinra mansion so just having him join there shouldn't have been a big deal. Yuffie's a bit more out of the way though.
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>>10934716
More secrets = better
Less cutscenes = better
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>>10934716
I like the secret aspect of their characters although I think there could have been a failsafe alternate recruitment method for yuffie when you get to wutai. Vincent on the otherhand could have just been left out of the game, relatively pointless story
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friendly reminder that "optional characters" aren't bonus content, they're cut content that were pushed back into the game but without any backstory or justification or significance
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>>10934779
Both of those characters have backstory
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FF7, 8, and 9 were released during the height of every game ever getting a strategy guide. You needed some secret shit no one would ever naturally find to sell those guides.

7's Vincent, 8's secret cards and where to get certain GFs, 9's ultimate weapons and chocobo digging locations (the non-chocograph ones). All shit made purposefully obscure to sell you guides.
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>>10934720
Yuffie's encounter rate is pretty high whenever you're in the woods though. It's unlikely someone playing normally wouldn't run into her.
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>>10934841
I agree with this, too. The issue isn't that it was hard to recruit Yuffie and Vincent because it wasn't. You didn't need a guide for them. But just being able to say there were two optional characters was itself a selling point. It made the game seem a little bit more special for having two characters you didn't strictly have to get.
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>>10934737
I wouldn't say they were secret. They're both in the manual alongside the rest of the roster. And it's not that they needed to add cutscenes but it would have been nice if they weren't completely absent during the goddamn ending.
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>>10934716
I somehow missed that girl when I played the game for the first time 10 years ago.
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>>10934857
It's not like they stand around mute during the in game story bits. And most cutscenes were just for big events anyways so them not being in there is only kind of weird in the ending and even then the ending is in and of itself fairly, I don't want to say abrupt, but it wasn't exactly a complex epilogue either by design.
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Skippable characters added an extra portion soul Final Fantasy 7. You had another thing you could talk about with friends. It made strategy guides even cooler (strategy guides are a lost art now).
Getting these characters felt special.
I mean, think about it. If those two characters werent skippable, you sure wouldn't talk about it 27 years later, would you?
All in all, FF7 is a really fucking cool game.
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>>10934923
I feel like a lot of games in general, are suffering a major problem where they not only want to overload you with a bunch of meaningless crap, but they're also afraid you might miss something unless directly guided to it. In FF7 there was a lot of missable crap and a lot of it, the characters most of all, had meaning.
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>>10934915
They aren't stone silent, no, but they really don't get involved as much as the others. Vincent has the excuse of being a loner by design but Yuffie really doesn't do a whole lot either.
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>>10934926
They do about as much as anyone else. A lot of the game is the party being reactionary to whatever is happening around them. And Yuffie at least has her little side quest.
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>>10934929
I somehow never did the extended bit with the tower until last year. I don't read walkthroughs or whatever, so I missed some of it every time I played somehow.
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>>10934716
>can't do a whole lot in the story or appear in the FMVs
Did... Did you even play FFVII??
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>>10934770
his story's not important but lucrecia's is. should've had her join the party instead of chilling in a cave for no reason. then again it might be kinda fucked up to let a mother kill her own son so maybe not.
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>>10934846
I ran into her blind. I also thought the right way to have her join the party would be the choice where you act like you don't care.
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>>10934925

"(todays) games are afraid you might miss something". This is exactly why Final Fantasy 7 felt "cool", because it wasn't afraid of its own game design. It was the culmulative work of a lot of creative people and their vision.
Not thinking too hard about "how would a player feel it he/she didn't find x or y" was great, because todays games are too much of a product, which aim is to always, really always satisfy you - which is fucking boring and lame.
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>>10934846
True. They should have just upped her encounter rate to 100% and made her questline mandatory. Not recruiting her literally makes the game worse.
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>>10936220
You know how I felt when I used to find out if I missed something cool. I felt "Sweet I get to play the game I like again."

>>10938025
The story actually does kind of need Yuffie's side quest in order to act as a red herring for the Cait Sith traitor reveal.
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>>10935760
They have their subplots but what do they do in the actual game events? Barret, Tifa, Cid, they're all heavily integrated. Yuffie and Vincent, not so much.
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>>10935979
I feel like there was a perfect opportunity to make Vincent Sephiroth's actual father and everyone only thinking Hojo was. That gonk asshole would have poisoned the genetics for sure. In fact I bet they'll go that route in the third game of the Remake trilogy. But once again, there was no way to do that back then given Vincent was optional.
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>>10936220
I think the difference back then is if you missed something you just plain never saw it. That rare monster encounter with the rare drop or the super weapon that trivializes the last boss may as well not exist if you didn't know about it. Today a game will not only let you know that stuff is there but taunt you about it, leaving a ton of unfilled data in the menus or incomplete icons on the map screen. That's why optional shit doesn't feel so optional anymore.
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>>10939765
It’s more that their storylines explain why everything is happening, than that their actions in VII are important. Without Vincent’s backstory a lot of Shinra and Jenova’s plot points have gaps. Yuffies is admittedly less important to the plot, but it does explain what the war everyone keeps referencing was all about.
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>>10938025
It also makes it weird if you recruit her at odd times. You can get her like 10 minutes before the last boss.
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>>10938025
>They should have just upped her encounter rate to 100% and made her questline mandatory.
And this is what's so weird about it to me. The optional-ness of them seems perfunctory. Unless you specifically avoid forests you're like 99% certain to encounter her. And Vincent's coffin is incredibly conspicuous. These aren't really missables in the classic sense. Tuning them to be required would involve the smallest of changes but come with massive benefits to the writers who then could have put them to better use.
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>>10934779
Nice schizo headcanon
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>>10934716
>Why the hell were these two optional?
Because neither are required.
If you can't understand semantics, try swapping the word "optional" for "bonus."
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>>10939781
It doesn't help that internet culture has basically spoiled an entire game before it even hits store shelves.
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>>10940000
I bet that's part of the reason games are the way they are, too. If you're a dev there's basically zero incentive to hide anything. Even if you disregard cynical financial reasons for doing it and assume the best intentions, surprises get spoiled immediately so why bother?
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>>10939801
They were on the chopping block since the devs were running close to their deadline and their events hadn't been finalized yet. They were made optional so that they could get away with not having many scenes for themselves or even a story reason for the party to pick them up in the first place. Yuffie was really tricky since nobody could figure out how to get her to join the party or a way to trim down the Wutai quest enough to include it (it used to be a lot more complex, involving Shinra economically pressuring them into demolishing the Da-Chao Statue so that a Mako Reactor could be built there). Masato Kato basically locked himself in his office and pulled a bunch of all-nighters to make Yuffie work since he really liked her. Having her show up in random encounters was a stroke of genius on his part considering he wasn't allowed to add much to the game to accommodate her introduction.
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>>10940031
That makes a lot of sense. A lot of that game's content betrays that it came from cut ideas. Sephiroth and Aerith having similar hairstyles, for example, stems from them originally having been planned to be siblings. Which would have made Sephiroth's "muh birthright" autism make more sense.
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unlockable characters are cool

no verification required
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>>10935979
>might be kinda fucked up to let a mother kill her own son
Square got over that eventually.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgiiBiEgEAI
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>>10934716
Reminder that literally EVERYTHING that went down in the game, EVERY SINGLE HORRIBLE BAD THING all happened because Vincent is a cuck.
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>>10941908
I know it was pretty strongly implied in the original but man everything outside the original game that they added to the 7 series is just... I can't even put into words how retarded shit gets. I blame Gackt.
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>>10934846
I ran into her blind. I remember thinking it was an unusual enemy. Kids explore games.
I don't think you could run into Tonberry King from ff8 blind.
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I never got Vincent on my first playthrough somehow.
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>>10942143
>I don't think you could run into Tonberry King from ff8 blind.
The game tells you how to find him.
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>>10942794
This is the only reference to Tonberry King in the game (excluding cards).
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>>10942375
You have to go back to Shinra Mansion for no reason and explore the basement during a specific timeframe. You’re less likely to get him by accident than you are Yuffie, who literally jumps out of the grass at you lol.
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>>10934857
>it would have been nice if they weren't completely absent during the goddamn ending.
anon didn’t play Dirge of Cerberus
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>>10943997
>Anon DID play Dirge of Cerberus
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>>10935979
Not super farfetched. They'll inevitably retcon Vincent into being Sephiroth's father in the third Remake game. So unless they decide to do a saving Sephiroth ending instead, he'll be helping kill his own son.
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>>10942143
It's unlikely but not impossible, Tonberries are only in one place aside from U's castle and suspicious. Someone might not go look for a summon, but a rare monster seems plausible.
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>>10943982
>You have to go back to Shinra Mansion for no reason and explore the basement during a specific timeframe.

wasn't opening his coffin tied to opening the safe upstairs and beating Lost Number? I remember him being one of the few "difficult" disc one bosses due to his gimmick not being too obvious for a noob. I also don't remember the puzzle you needed to get the correct safe combination, but I remember it being annoying.
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>>10940031
I don't believe that, if they were "almost cut" you would have things like subcontracted FMV cutscenes that had to be storyboarded long in advance where they show up even if you hadn't recruited them rather than the opposite

I think it's more likely they would have wanted to do more hidden characters without much story integration like ff6 and they were left with just the 2
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>Why the hell were these two optional?
Because they're characters who don't interact with the story at all. Having them in the main party serves no purpose.

>It serves no purpose because getting them feels so natural
No it doesn't, it feels like optional side characters who you can find.

>and being able to bypass their recruitment only screws up the game since now they can't do a whole lot in the story or appear in the FMVs.
They never did a whole lot in the story to begin with. Yuffie and the whole Wutai story is completely separate to the events of the game and has no bearing on anything. They're obviously changing that for the Remake because it's a huge missed opportunity. Vincent has no impact on the story, he's just some guy from the past who gets cucked and then when he joins does nothing because he has no story afterwards like what's he going to do? I'm pretty curious how they're going to work him into the Remake like is he going to be part of the Turks plot or give him something to do with Chadley like I'm really struggling to find something where he can be an active character in the plot.
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>>10945121
>I think it's more likely they would have wanted to do more hidden characters without much story integration like ff6 and they were left with just the 2

I think they might have wanted a goblin since he appears as one of the memory card PS1 icons along with all the characters.
Super Sweeper might also have been an item character. Where the sweeper appears in battle.
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>>10945313
>goblin
?



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