Which is it? I always here that TG-16 or more specifically the PC Engine has the best SHMUPs, but from my experience it does not. Spriggan and Lords of Thunder were by far the best ones I've played, but they are kind of lacking if I'm to be honest. I think the Genesis has better ones, especially with MUSHA which is awesome, but unforgivably hard in later levels. But my unpopular opinion is that the SNES has the best SHMUPs. Space Megaforce IMO being the best that generation, then you have R-Type III, U.N. Squadron, Axelay, Firepower 2000 and Aero Fighters. Most just seem a half generation ahead of what's on the other systems. Only Thunderforce IV and MUSHA seem to even come close to pushing the boundaries like some of the SNES ones.
Thread hidden
>>11633956>MUSHA which is awesome, but unforgivably hard in later levelsbait
>>11633956Thunder force IV isn't even the best MD shooter, Undeadline is.And Musha isn't even as good as Zanac nor Power Strike.
>>11633956>Most just seem a half generation ahead of what's on the other systemsi cannot think of a single "fast" shooter on the snes. all of them are slower paced games that maybe throw in one speed tunnel level
The only "next gen" shooter on either console is Grindstormer, and it isn't on the SNES.
>>11634134>this is what sega nigger actually thinkhttps://youtu.be/8OTV-X62Zfc?t=212
>>11633956TurboGrafx16 is the King. Genesis has MUSHA, SNES has Axelay, but neither has anything as quite as good as Spriggan, Lords of Thunder, or Sapphire imo.
>>11634174Genesis has Lords of Thunder...
>>11634150That Toaplan board isn't more powerful than the arcade games that Konami ported to the snes.
>>11634174Have you ever played Sapphire? Because it's not that good and pretty mediocre. It's expensive because it's so rare. Mario Bros. 3 is cheap. Is it cheap because it's a bad game?
>>11634017Smoking crack.
>>11634191Are we talking non-shooters? They are heavily, heavily cut down. Regardless of whether SNES Turtles is actually better than the arcade game, it has a fraction of the action going on.
>>11634232So is Grind stormer, despite being a 1994 port it's ugly and remove the revenge bullets, even a launch title like Gradius III looked better and had revenge bullets.
>>11634248It is absolutely hideous and sounds terrible too. But it is a proto-bullhell playing at full pace. That's what I'm talking about. And I think you are underselling how much something like Turtles is cut down. There is about half the action (sprites, frames, players, etc) on screen. Totally different genre, however.
>>11634252>But it is a proto-bullhellThis is a meme, it's just mimicking Konami's revenge bullets and these are completely absent in the MD port anyway, the sfc Konami ports do have them, look better and are years older. >And I think you are underselling how much something like Turtles is cut downAnd Hyperstone Heist looks worse and has a big black bar on top.
>>11634265Yo dawg you don't have any idea what you're talking about.
>>11634271>got btfo>d-d-dawgTatsujin ou is more of a bullet hell than any pre DDP Ikeda game, deal with it.
>>11634248Gradius III does look incredible because it makes good use of the Super Nintendo's color palette and has large sprites and colorful backgrounds, something the SNES does well. That being said there are alot of plain backgrounds too and lack of parallax for a side scroller. It is different than the arcade version which also looks worse but has a better resolution, SNES Gradius III feels like it was almost remade specifically as an SNES game.Grind Stormer is completely different, it's a more faithful arcade port, as close as the devs could get with the hardware. The arcade version really does look like that and the SNES could never have done this game either, it's not powerful enough. Notice how there is no slowdown in Grind Stormer but lots in Gradius III? It comes down to the gameplay, Gradius III is excellent but you're not giving a fair assessment to Grind Stormer.
>>11634280NVM, now that I recall there is a little bit of slowdown in Grind Stormer, but not much that impacts gameplay significantly.
>>11633956I'm a filthy casual who can't git gud. Slowdown on an under powered platform full of poorly done ports is really the only way I can manage to make it through games. So for me it's the SNES all the way.
>>11634280If you want to go all tech demo then Rendering Rangers make the Grind Stormer look like a joke, they came out around the same time unlike Gradius III which is a launch title.
>>11634293You'll love Thunder slog 4 >>11634171
>>11634280>Notice how there is no slowdown in Grind Stormer but lots in Gradius III?Gradius III's slowdown is mostly down to them using a slowrom cart which throttles the CPU. A lot of early SNES games use this cartridge type and they are the games that are saddled with the most slowdown, games that use the fastrom carts like Sunset Riders and R-Type III don't have major issues with slowdown despite having a lot of action on screen.Here is a Gradius III playthrough with a fastrom patch and while it's not perfect, the performance is night and day, it has less slowdown than the arcade version of Gradius..https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dB8wvVnZdKMCould the SNES handle a port of Grindstormer? Maybe with fastrom but it'd be a tough go, definitely with add-on chips, not that they'd ever use those for a shmup port.BTW there are a lot of SNES shmups ruined by slowrom chips but basically all of them have fastrom patches available which makes the SNES shmup library much more impressive. Here's UN Squadron whose performance is now closer to the arcade version.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7x-_AbYsnQAnd here is Super Ghouls and Ghosts with a handy frame counter that showcases the difference.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=siwZTorWw2E
>>11634329Parodius Da is slowrun too and runs great, Gradius III just suffer from being a launch game.
Yeah I'll take SNES all things considered but MD and PCE also have great shooters. 4th gen was peak
>>11634329>Fastrom allows you take full advantage of the 3.6MHz processor in the SNESGreat. That's less than half the clock speed of the Genesis which also has a 4MHz Z80 it can use as a coprocessor. Also UN Squadron on the SNES plays differently than the arcade. Bullets move in simpler directions and a lot of times with the same speed and direction. There are less aimed shots, probably because of the processor. You have slowdown here too. As an aside alot of these games with slowdown were designed around that fact so speeding them up with romhacks and stuff doesn't actually make the gameplay better necessarily.
>>11634315I love it. I wish more MD devs would have made shmups with literally 9001 layers of parallax scrolling and 9001 sprites on the screen. It's the only way a no skill zoomie like me stands a chance.
>>11634437Play Thunder Force III, it's easier but still top tier. You won't get better at these games by not playing harder ones.
>>11634443Why would I want to get better when I can just blame my failures on artificial difficulty?
>>11634265Revenge bullets have nothing to do with the bullet hell genre. Grindstormer isn't really a bullet hell, but it is the missing link game, having the hitbox and the later levels having patterns you'll start to see in Cave games.I don't mean it is next gen in terms of graphics. The game's graphics are crippled in order to get it to run, it should have been on Saturn. I mean it is a next gen shooter in design and gameplay. Everything on SNES, by contrast, is slow. That doesn't mean SNES doesn't have the best looking (Axelay) and best sounding (Twinbee) shooters of the generation though.
>>11634178TurboGrafx version is better.>>11634202Yes, I enjoy it. Nothing to do with how rare or expensive it is, I'm a cheap ass so I emulate.
>>11634793Turbo version of Lords of Thunder is better, Turbo version of Truxton is better.But Genesis has better versions of Zero Wing and Hellfire.Genesis has MUSHA, Turbo has Spriggan. MUSHA has better graphics and music, but is too easy. I like MUSHA better but I can understand someone liking Spriggan better.Genesis has the Thunderforce series, Turbo has the Star Soldier series. Once you get to the mid and lower tiers though, Genesis starts to dry up a bit while the Turbo has tons of very enjoyable games.
>>11634437>muh bajillion parallaxIt's just nes tier line scrolling>muh bajillion spritesAxelay and Super aleste are busier and better
>>11634785 DDP has more Truxton 2 patterns than Grind stormer ones, the only thing that makes it "bullet hell like" are the Konami style revenge bullets which are missing in the MD port.Also saying next gen = bullet hell is kind of silly, Ray force was a next gen game and had nothing to do with bullet hell.
>>11634171>posts fast gameuhh you proved my point? thanksif you're gonna try to btfo, just compare thunder force 3 genesis vs snes, the snes version is molasses as soon as you hold the fire button
>>11633956>I think the Genesis has better ones,the only clear pro the genesis has over the pce is more toaplan games. but some toaplan games are still better on pce like twin cobra and truxton (coincidentally the ones that taito ported)zero wing and twin hawk aren't as graphically good on pce but both ports have significant extra content
>>11634334>Parodius Dathere aren't a lot of snes vs pce multiplats, but parodius snes btfos the pce port in all aspects except for the special stage and intro scene. pce port is really only worth it for the caravan levelparodius should have been a super CD game like gradius 2. even an 8 megabit hucard wasnt enough
>>11635274>fast gamelmao, thunder slop 4 is one of the main reasons people overclock the geneshit>b-but le outsourced bad port of tf3! cope
thunder force 4 is only liked because it has outstanding graphics and music. Take that away and you have a bare bones shmup with way too many enemies that come onto the screen fast as hell and can't be realistically reacted to by any human.If we're judging on art perspective + gameplay, then Bio-Hazard Battle is way better. The gameplay is still barebones for a shmup but at least it's not actively bad, music is way better IMO.
>>11635359>copecan't take away what happened. a shit port is a shit port, no one is making a new one
>>11635490Fastrom hack salvages it ok, MD got it way worse with Smash tv
>>11635448Shut the fuck up.
>>11635281Toaplan did most/all the Genesis ports themselves. The PCE versions aren't as good with the exception of Twin Cobra and possibly Truxton depending on your preference. PCE Truxton looks amazing but is way harder, close to the arcade. The Genesis version has sped up audio, colors are a little more dull but closer to the arcade and is more forgiving.
>>11635684not an argument
>>11635694TF IV is considered one of the best shooters of the era and one of or even the best looking Genesis game.
>>11633956SNES does not have Thunder Force IV.
>>11634420>Great. That's less than half the clock speed of the Genesis which also has a 4MHz Z80 it can use as a coprocessor.It's not the processor speed that matters, it's that the 68k has 16 registers, so it can do a lot more math without needing to fetch data from memory (which is very slow).
>>11635691I don't think MD Twin Cobra was ported by Toaplan, which is why it's considerable worse than other Toaplan ports.Truxton port is good overall, I remember it being closer to the arcade than the Pce one personally, the jp MD version especially is a lot harder than the genesis one.
>>11635709>is considerednot an argument>one of or even the best looking Genesis gameNo one disputed this.
This thread got me curious so I tried out Grind Stormer on Mega Drive - DAMN. This game blows every other 16-bit shmup out of the water. I've heard this game is supposed to be "proto-bullet hell", hell, this game just feels like a bullet hell. Completely above everything else released on gen 4 consoles. Genesis wins just because of this game.
>>11636196Except it's a joke compared to the arcade, barely more dense in bullets than older Toaplan shooters.
>>11633956I'm biased because I never owned a Genesis, but from what I've seen it looks like SNES is better than Genesis in just about every way. Genesis games just look and sound a bit older I think.
>>11636925A lot of Genesis shooters were released before the SNES. MUSHA is older than the SNES.If you cut out the amazing Konami masterpieces though, SNES shooters generally are flat, slow, and dull. Konami caries the genre entirely on the platform.
>>11637061Gradius III came out the same as Musha and looks next gen in comparison. >Konami carries shmupSad cope, Super Aleste was by Compile and better than Musha
>>11637117MUSHA looks, plays and sounds better than Super Aleste.
>>11637130Wrong wrong and wrong, even the 8-bits aleste games are better than Musha.
>>11636925Genesis is better in sports games, run and guns, shootemups, beatemups, arcade games, games focused on bosses, fast-paced platformers...Genesis games are faster, have better framerate, have more complex bosses, have more sprites on screen, have better framerate, have larger scenarios, have higher resolution, have less load screens...>>11637117>Sad cope, Super Aleste was by Compile and better than MushaI've played both and Musha is clearly superior. Better music, better graphics, better level design. Super Aleste is a pretty monotone game. Konami might have saved SNES from being a complete joke in terms of shootemups (SNES is borderline atrocious in terms of beatemups or run and guns), but it's still squarely surpassed by Genesis. SNES shootemups are too slow.
>>11637117>Muh Gradius IIIWhy do people think this game is so impressive again? Yeah it looks really good but it's somewhat superficial once you realize that it's mainly due to the excellent use of color but there is a lack of parallax, detail and actually backgrounds in general. They use like 4 layers of parallax which sounds great but it's only for stars scrolling against a black background. UN Squadron looks better than Gradius III IMO but this is because of color mainly and UN Squadron makes some use of mode 7 effects but Gradius III does not.
>>11637146Only a seganigger would say Musha is better than Super Aleste, Super is classier, harder and way prettier.>muh Geneshit supremacyWhat's the point of all that shovelware if you don't have R-type, Gradius, Parodius, Aero fighters, let alone Dezaemon
>>11637195>muh parallaxEven nes games can do the line scrolling you see in Musha or Thunder Force, having beautiful sprites and backgrounds full of color and details is way more impressive.
>>11633956PC Engine mogs in terms of shmups. Honestly there's almost no shmups I enjoy on either of those consoles, they are shitty arcade ports at best. At least NES arcade ports felt unqiue and had a charm to them
SHMUPs popularity probably peaked between 1986 and 1989, so Famicom and TG-16. It's amazing how quickly the genre went from n°1 video game genre to niche.
>>11637216But Gradius III doesn't have backgrounds.
>>11634793Considering Sapphire costs 1500$ plus PCE plus PCE CD plus arcade card, emulating that doesn't exactly qualify as being a cheap ass.
>>11637664Explain this and why it looks better than late md shooters
I don't care what anyone says, this is the best SHMUP of the 16-bit generation. All the flaws people cite are actually strengths. It's unique, fast, long, beautiful, but at it's core is a complex no frills arcade action game.
>>11638030That's 1 background, alot are pic related and they're all static for the most part. Thunder Force III has all sorts of effects in different stages and cooler level design. Gradius III looks good, but it's simple with mostly static images albeit with great color and contrast.
>>11638197I’m going to try this out in a bit. Another less discussed space shooter is Curse for the Genesis. Just started playing it and it gets far better after the first few minutes.
no mentions of gynoug or fire shark? absolute plebs in here.
>>11638197>>11638219Let me tell you about Space Megaforce after playing it for a few minutes.it has:- talking!- good graphics with transparencies - very arcade like game play in a good way- classic selection of weapons and power ups- excellent music- large enemies that explode I'm impressed with it but I gotta beat Curse on Genesis first before I get back to it.
>>11638239Wings of Wor?The graphics are amazing!>and the pp monster
>>11634420>clock speed
>>11638294>MIPSThis board is for the discussion of retro games not retro stupid.
>>11633956These are the closest of all generationsProbably go with sega but they're pretty close. Nintendo style isn't my favorite, they have games for it though so I can't hate it that bad
Tell me something else that I'll enjoy if UN Squadron is the only Japanese scrollshooter I've ever liked. I.E. it needs to be pretty easy and not 1HKO.I really like the dynamic of UN Squadron where you can take a hit and then for a few seconds if you take another you die. I like that few seconds of intensity but for a whole 1HKO game I just get mentally worn out.
