I'm not sure it holds up. It doesn't have analog camera, it runs at 240p resolution and average 20fps, there's hitching when you pause the game, saving quitting and resuming doesn't retain your position in the game, most puzzles involve block pushing or just shooting a switch, there's unskippable cutscenes every 30 seconds, the lock on bounces to enemies you don't intend it to, there's knee high fences you cannot vault over, there's inclines the horse refuses to move beyond, you have to play several songs and run back to the temple of time to transform between child and adult forms, rupees are completely worthless and seemingly the only reward you get for exploration, the dialogue options are redundant just forcing you to pick Yes, there's tons of things the game just doesn't explain, there's tons of things the game over explains, the map is useless, a lot of the only sidequests in the game are fetch quests, nonexistent swimming controls, arbitrary limitations between child and adult link items, the teleports between areas leave a lot to be desired, no faster movement mechanic for young link, the challenge is virtually nonexistent, there's a lot of backtracking for 100% completion, Navi gets stuck repeating the same info routinely, many items are just palette swaps or replacements with the same functionality, and there's no world building or character development.For its time like 30 years ago it must have been really impressive, however these days I can probably give it a 7/10. Twilight Princess was a direct upgrade and I'd rather play it instead.
the health upgrades are weird too, its virtually impossible to die so whats the point
>>12206846>there's tons of things the game just doesn't explain>there's tons of things the game over explainsThis one's too real. There's a tutorial for "click A to open a door" but no we're not gonna tell you that it's possible to bottle a fish and that's how you enter a main story dungeon.
>>12206846I think you're being harsh, but fair. 7/10 is a decent score for a modern perspective.For me, it's one of those games where the magic is unbelievably there, if you were the target audience and were there for it at the time of release.I agree that the gameplay itself is far too easy and rather braindead, but for an old fan like me, randomizers and the QoL improvements bring a lot to the table for me.Goes from being a game I'd rather not replay more than twice a decade, into a suitable time-sink if I need a diversion.
>>12206846>It doesn't have analog cameraAlmost nothing from it's era did but the camera recenter button and the games default camera works just fine and better than most games.>240p resolution and average 20fpsAgain same as most large scale 3D games of the era. It was also one of the best looking games when it came out and pushed the console pretty hard. Game at least feels smooth to play despite the framerate.>there's hitching when you pause the gameyou played the game on a bad and outdated emulator. play it on real hardware or an actually competent emulator and it doesn't do that.>there's unskippable cutscenes every 30 secondsThere are maybe 10 minutes worth of cutscenes in the whole game, most of which can just be button mashed through, idk what the fuck you're talking about.>the lock on bounces to enemies you don't intend it toUse the hold setting instead of switch for Z targeting in the options>you have to play several songs and run back to the temple of time to transform between child and adult formsits 1 song and it takes you right to the temple of time. you also only ever need to time travel one time, twice if you're inefficient.>there's tons of things the game just doesn't explainlike what? if anything a common complaint about this and other 3D Zeldas is that it over explains things so idk what you mean>there's tons of things the game over explains???>the map is useless???>a lot of the only sidequests in the game are fetch questsso is just about every sidequest ever made>the teleports between areas leave a lot to be desiredyou play the songs and they take you right to the games dungeons, what more do you need? the world is so small anyway it barely even needs fast travel.>there's a lot of backtracking for 100% completionnot really. you end up naturally going to a lot of the areas again while going through it normally and again even if you missed something theres fast travel and the world is so small anyway its hardly an inconvenience
>>12206886hit the character limit but>and there's no world building or character developmentholy fucking lolIt's okay if you don't like the game, I don't think it's the greatest game of all time either, but none of this is really valid and mostly sounds like the confessions of a retarded zoomer. Somehow the almost 30 year old childrens game was too complicated for you. Go back to playing your Switch 2 I'm sure something on there is more your speed.
>>12206886>There are maybe 10 minutes worth of cutscenes in the whole game, most of which can just be button mashed through, idk what the fuck you're talking about.I think OP meant those mini-cutscenes where you pull a lever and the camera slowly pans to a door opening literally 5 ft away from you. It's so frustrating and even BOTW does this.
>>12206846>I'm not sure it holds up>7/10When did 7/10 become bad? 7/10 is 70% of the way to perfection. I agree with your review overall, but your language would imply a 5 or 6 out of 10; 7/10 implies that the examinee has correctly answered a large majority of the exam's questions.
It was one of those games that you had to be alive when it came out to appreciate it. After WW and TP came out there's no reason to suffer through OoT.
>>12206932>your language would imply a 5 or 6 out of 10Scratch that, OP, your language would imply a 4 or 5 out of 10.
>>12206846It's a flawed classic. 7/10 sounds about right, if we're using a fair scale where 7/10 means "decent" and not a typical scale where anything below an 8/10 is complete garbage.>Twilight Princess was a direct upgrade and I'd rather play it instead.I can't say I agree with this though. TP's gameplay, for all its upgrades, is much more annoying to me, and it just doesn't have the same sovl Ocarina does. Ocarina on TP's engine would be pretty cool though.
>>12206867>but no we're not gonna tell you that it's possible to bottle a fish and that's how you enter a main story dungeon.if only you got hints from talking to npcs...
>>12207030The game genuinely doesn't tell you this. It doesn't prevent you from buying fish yourself, but it never directly cue you in to the fact that you can nab things in bottles by hand and that's part of why the game is so good, it gives you motivation to experiment and discover its mechanics yourself.
>>12206846I just found 3D zeldas too ugly compared to the top down ones.
>>12207074>but it never directly cue you in to the fact that you can nab things in bottles by handsurely watching the animation when you use it while empty would be a clue... and even if you somehow didn't there is the zora shop selling a fish, and the king who says ruto went to feed jabu jabu...
>>12207098Because this game engages in the most basic of game mechanic curiosities (I bet I can jump on this obviously reachable platform) it is considered the most exciting game of all time.
>>12207120well apparently that wasn't basic enough
>This old classic game ? Actually it's bad!!Zoomers are so unoriginal. The funny thing is that they all believe they have some sort of hot take when it's billionth time we've seen them make these threads; which they tend to pull when there is already an active thread on the game of course because they think their "hot take" has any value. We get it, you think that shitting on the old classics makes your taste grow, that it makes you grow as a person, and that it comforts your belief that you have it so much better now and you need to dump this shit on us because of low self esteem. You can all stop now.
>>12206905It's a stupid complaint. If Link didn't physically open the door or the chest, then you dickwads would be complaining about that. He's got to do it and you've got to watch him or it cheapens the experience. Plus, you usually get hints from the various camera angles.
>>12207152Next time try to refute the arguments instead of going on a rant about muh zoomers
>>12207152They all get their ideas from the same youtubers or they are literally jaded millenials that legitimately had no friends or parents that loved them and suffer mental illness due to it (like the oot zealot fag).
>>12206846Wrong. I wish I could play it for the first time again:(
>>12207167All of OP's main points boil down to one thing "it's not like modern gaming so it sucks!!!", complaining about the saving, the framerate, the lack of "QoL", etc etc There is nothing to refute except the player's mentality. It's the equivalent of watching a classic movie from the 30's and saying "it's in black & white, there is no cgi, and all the actors are upper class white people. This movie doesn't hold up at all!"
>>12207152the good news is no amount of seething will stop me from enjoying my classics.
tl;dr but I'm playing this for the first time since I was a kid. I'm not a fan of Zelda games, but OOT is fun. It's kind of a slog until you get to the Dong Bong lizard cavern though. It's fun.
>>12207152The beauty of these threads are I literally have to do nothing to refute them. Ocarina of Time already stood the test of time and holds up by merit of it still being talked about and inviting threads like this. Just typing words on their cell phones doesnt change anything and them having a negative opinion toward the game just reflects negatively onto them and not the game. Its perfectly defended and I am free to not argue.
>>12207227Based and truthpilled
>>12206846It was for little kids and was always crap for kids FFS it probably hol;ds up for 8 year olds.
>>12207227>Its perfectly defended and I am free to not argue.mental illness.
>>12206846Duplicate thread of: >>12195936
>>12206846>I want "video games" to explain everything (I'm going to skip it!), automate everything (playing takes too long!, solve everything (for me), and IT BETTER BE FREE!The Internet is definitely filled with children, these days.
>>12207271seethe
>>12207271hope you find peace someday, anon
>>12207227This. It's gonna join the ranks of masterpieces like Skyrim or Cyberpunk 2077 as games you don't need to defend since they're so obviously masterpieces that people will keep discussing them for decades
>>12207525
>>12206846What do you think 7/10 means?
>>12206846congratulations, OP.you discovered what growing up/out of something means.don't get me wrong, everything you pointed out is on point.it's what turned me off about majora's mask - the gimmicks.it's filled with time wasting gimmicks.it makes me wonder why japanese games are heralded in the first place.loads of backtracking.jrpgs in the oldest days were a grindfest.etc.probably some cultural aspects in there somewhere that allude to the endless, dull repetition eventually leads to something rewarding.just a personal thought, could be wrong/misguided.it ruined the gaming experience for me in the end.don't get joy from gaming anymore.
>>12206886not OP, but>>there's tons of things the game over explainsmight be referring to the *fire truck siren* "STOP!! Listen to the FUCKING OWL!!1!" degree of bullshit when you just want to get the hell on with the game.this type of bullshit got worse, in the form of mini-tutorials, in modern remakes of some games (i.e. pokémon hg/ss)where you're constantly being interrupted to the point where it detracts from the player being able to have their own experience of the game.
>>12208863 #Pressing B literally one time when the owl talks to you(which only happens 3 times) skips all of his dialogue. His dialogue isn't even really tutorial text, it's mostly just introducing you to the next area of the game and is mostly flavor. But really I was just confused because he says the game also doesn't explain enough. You can't complain about over explaining and then complain under explaining it's either one or the other.I'm personally on the side that the game only explains as much as you let it. You don't have to read the tutorial signs in Kokiri Forest, you don't have to answer Navi every time she shows up, you don't have to read anything the owl says, etc. But if you choose to or are stuck on something, you can get the solution or an idea of what to do by engaging with it. The number of times the game forcefully stops you to engage with what could be considered as tutorial or hint text is incredibly small.
>>12206846it doesnt really hold up at all. its really more of a 4/10, and thats being generous. it had some great novelty at the time, but some people simply cant move past that. they praise it and defend it like it actually loves them back. they also give way too much credit for "cool ideas/concepts" that it barely touches, and are incapable of actually looking at the execution of the final product as a whole through a rational lens. its barely more than a tech demo.
>>12207074What the fuck are you talking about. It clearly tells you when you first receive any item in the game what its function is. I'm also pretty sure there's a button you can hit on the item selection screen to repeat what its function is.
>>12209065>I'm also pretty sure there's a button you can hit on the item selection screen to repeat what its function isIt's called the "A" button.
>>12208898>read the tutorial signs in Kokiri ForestI have never done this.
>>12208863It's part of the game. Your actions and your words don't line up. If you wanted to get on with the game, then you wouldn't get upset when the game interacts with you. After the first time outside Kokiri Forest, the owl only pops up if you try to do a bunch of shit that makes no sense or to give you a free ride (from Lake Hylia to the Castle or from Death Mtn Peak to Kakariko). Something retarded would be to try and explore Hyrule when you have a date with the princess. Only a literal child would try to go see Kakariko or Lake Hylia or somesuch, which is why Rauru steps in: to herd the retarded kid back onto the important, main quest.
>>12208856Good bait. If you're complaining about backtracking in a sandbox game, then you obviously lack discretion and good sense in the first place.
>>12209506I've never seen someone complain about Majora's Mask not being linear enough, so that's a new one.
>>12206849Did you even play the game?
>ughhhh where is the analog camera?!! this game has... le aged bad!!t. mentally ill faggot
>>12211104by all means tell me where you managed to die in this game so i can laugh at you
You people are all little pussys unable to admit personal preference.You can objectively evaluate all you want, it does not change how i perceive modern junk and old things. And for that matter, if i want to play an old game with resources of today i damn well do so. We certainly did not have entitled time travelers going around rating shit on greatest game of all time by far.If i saw any idiot like that in a magazine i would just shrug it off like "Hmm, weird person."The only time, that we tryed to transcend games into objectivity was to combat individuals who jumped the bandwagon of making games purely as business practice rather than a potentially lucrative passion, art and science.You guys just don't get it. You retards just jumped the bandwagon of dismantling people forcing their DLC-and other shit crap down our throat to turn around the argument against people just loving their games.I made exactly 1 rating, 1 time, with the sole purpose of giving access to all "retro"-like things at one glance and when it came to numerical rating it was instantly clear to me, that this would be wildly subjective, and so i named this rating "Desire to play on first sight" and "Desire to play right now"(at the moment of creating the unpublished and unfinished website), which is as accurate as it gets self-explanatorily when you get tired of playing something yourself for example.The subjective preference is implied and freely given IN THE RATING.You people don't have that. And you are not wrong as you essentially accurately represent an entire future population, which has its own significance.But what you retards don't get is that the trash you people "like" is just regurgitated shit and has zero authenticity.When i see people get stuck in OoT i don't think of it as some retard's compulsion to "rate" things. I instead laugh hard like "yeah that one sucked loool"The shitty modders with lack of virtue like patience can stay in their shitty modern trash.
>>12211168>reddit spacing>tl;dr
>>12211151it's pretty easy to die to stalfos if you're not collecting every available piece of heart
Part 2 bitches:-It doesn't have analog camera-dafuq does this mean ? do you even know what analog means ???-it runs at 240p resolution and average 20fps, there's hitching when you pause the game-no it don't. use ship of harkinian with OoT reloaded HD mod. you retard.-saving quitting and resuming doesn't retain your position in the game-yes it do. since very 1st time i played it was on emu. you probably were like 3 then. i don't mind "authentic hardware kids", but PICK your poison based on preference-most puzzles involve block pushing or just shooting a switch-if a combat game makes literal puzzles for nerds look like a fun thing that's a massive W, you loser-there's unskippable cutscenes every 30 seconds-these are a W for any first-timer, who isn't born with the attention span of a retarded tiktok-er. fucking idiot-the lock on bounces to enemies you don't intend it to-no it don't. there is always a yellow indicator and if you can't untarget it's because you retard didn't learn to hold down first. idiot-there's knee high fences you cannot vault over, there's inclines the horse refuses to move beyond-this is valid criticism. but i invite you to piss off to your modern trash if it bothers you enough. and feel to rate it good. i'm not gonna play it tho, nor watch any playthroughs of it. idiot-you have to play several songs and run back to the temple of time to transform between child and adult forms-a game, that you like, that gives places and things re-usability, is a good game-rupees are completely worthless and seemingly the only reward you get for exploration-there are several items you can buy, i think even blue fire. dumb fucking retard-the dialogue options are redundant just forcing you to pick Yes-uhhh, no. the dialogue follows the narration. your modern trash instead creates the illusion of choice using pre-made bullshit
Part 3:-there's tons of things the game just doesn't explain, there's tons of things the game over explains-you can improve that and re-release the improved verson for future players, who come to "rate" the game. i won't touch the modified trash tho-the map is useless-i've seen at least one playthrough, where the streamer utilized the map-a lot of the only sidequests in the game are fetch quests-fetch quests are alot more meaningful than kill quests, which are BOTH unreasonable and grindy, what kinda idiot dev is entitled to think of us as slaves ??-nonexistent swimming controls-then sink like a rock, fool-arbitrary limitations between child and adult link items-i'm sure these aren't arbitrary, but i also don't want to look into it enough to give a fuck. this does not mean, that i give this a pass as i have no issues with these limitations at all-the teleports between areas leave a lot to be desired-of course they do. i would love for things to be in a way, that attracts retards like you away from good games. always a plus. you can then enjoy yourself with "alot less to be desired" in your encapsulated space away from a spot dedicated to "retro"-no faster movement mechanic for young link-use superslide, idiot. i made a macro for that. or use cheats. oh yeah of course that's not authentic, but neither is an entitled brat shitting on OoT pretending to have hard limitations, that i did not even put on myself-the challenge is virtually nonexistent-i always love a good player. nice job. really, this one i am not salty over, keep going ! :)
>>12211173Do me a favour, if you tldr. keep it to yourself and don't reply pretending to be of bigger value than the post, that was tl. retard.Part 4:-there's a lot of backtracking for 100% completion-is there some kind of rulebook, that says, that "backtracking" necessarily has to be considered a bad thing ? you just list it assuming it HAS to be interpreted as bad, at least the way it is handled in this game, which i don't see at all. i'm not gonna call it good OR bad. i just refuse to pay attention to something, that is not by any definition bound to be bad-Navi gets stuck repeating the same info routinely-the shit we invent, is a meme served to you on a silver platter. go back to consuming your memes, kid-many items are just palette swaps or replacements with the same functionality-what ? you mean long shot ? slingshot, bow and arrow ?, magic arrows ? biggoron sword ? again this seems like an arbitrary complaint taken from people, who write legitimate criticism in things like MMORPGs or other mass-manufactured games stealing from novelty of MMO games, with no validity in this context at all-and there's no world building or character development.-i wouldn't even touch this piece of shit game if it had "world building" or other modern retard-kids features in it LOL. as for character development you HAVE to be a retard to literally NOT see 7 years of growth...like what the actual fuckFor its time like 30 years ago it must have been really impressive, however these days I can probably give it a 7/10.-nobody asked for your ratingTwilight Princess was a direct upgrade and I'd rather play it instead.-no, TP was ugly. it had its own benefits, but not comparable to OoT. although admitted not as ugly and FUCKING GAY as modern trash, you retard
>>12211189>>12211190>>12211192i like OoT and i might agree with you, but i'm still not reading all of that
>>12211168>>12211189>>12211190>>12211192damn, who let the schizo narcissist out? what a retard.
>>12209484Me either, my point was that 99% of the text that "over explains things" is entirely optional.
>>12209481this actually only a feature in Majoras Mask lol
>>12207271The fact that some retarded zoomer is playing this game from 30 years ago and going out of his way to make an epic takedown thread about it speaks for itself. If the game was actually bad it would just be irrelevant and he wouldn't be doing this. You don't see zoomers constantly creating threads about Superman 64.
>>12211225>If the game was actually bad it would just be irrelevantthe problem is that it has diehard fans that are willfully ignorant and give it wildly undue praise. they've been doing it for decades. they'll die before they let anyone say anything bad about it. you're probably one of them, lol.
>>12211212more proof that MM is the better game
>>12211225>If the game was actually badThe game is not bad. It's pretty good, in fact.It's just not nearly as good or universally beloved as its fans believe it to be.Fanboys make fallacious arguments (like yours), not infrequently reaching comical levels of delusion.So critics exaggerate to provoke reactions from the fragile fanbabies in an endless cycle.Fully 3D action-adventure games would become one of the most common and popular genres during 6th gen. OoT was ahead of the curve in that respect, and Nintendo did invest heavily into polishing the many details and (hard-coded) interactive elements of the 3D game world to explore. It's unfair to deny that Ocarina is a major achievement, and was a really fun game to play if you didn't mind the slow pace and kiddy atmosphere.But tendies give the game way too much credit, acting as if the game changed the course of history thanks to Nintendo. The truth is, there was a combination of much less impressive reasons why Zelda 64 stands alone the way it does, as a "game ahead of its time."1. Sony made the mistake of not recognizing the importance of having an analog stick on the control pad from the beginning.2. Nintendo alienated most good game developers with their greedy licensing policies and expensive platform.Thus, competition on the N64 was minimal and making a 3D Action-Adventure with Ocarinalike mechanics on another platform was a bad idea until analog sticks had greater penetration in the player base. Note that this didn't stop games in adjacent genres like Tomb Raider, Metal Gear Solid, Thief and Resident Evil from putting up Ocarina-like sales figures in direct inter-platform competition, even if they weren't officially "ahead of their time."
It is not relevant whether the game is good or bad. There is only 2 takeaways:1.The new gen don't like itIt is important to acknowledge, that new gen don't like it. Like this is actually an important thing to do.2.There shouldn't be objective judgementA rating involving seemingly objective complaints implies poor judgement from anybody else and also implies equivalent emphasis of game qualities as from the individual, who was born with copy-pasted trash.How come, that one generation has navi as a running gag, while the others try to use it for some kind of a rating ? These people didn't grow up with classical music as building blocks in cartoons, they grew up with an amalgamation of multiple trash taken from multiple game genres and have an attachment to very basic addiction mechanics, and by saying, that "old games do not match that" this is an insult as if saying, that "because of these objective points, that i listed it is only reasonable, that your personal preference is this modern trash here produced by plebs, and if you do not agree, then this suggests an emotional veil over your judgement"Objective judgement is important: but only to rid ourselves of leeches, that see the games industry as a "job" rather than passion project, to which hobbyists or professionals may dedicate themselves to if they so desire.The point of acknowledging subjectivity is to be able to say "oh he likes this" or "oh he doesn't like those games".It should never be, that everybody has to, with the caution of women's hands, try to respect every single valid statement made about any one game. This is the LAST thing, that any gamer should give a fuck about !And that is why, when you can talk back it solves the problem, regardless of the actual rating.
>>12211208hey. i bring alot to the table and use the insults to defend my healthy judgement against somebody, who implies, that i have poor judgementall that you bring to the table is group pressure of "hey look at this idiot ! look at this idiot right here !!" with literal zero intent of making any meaningful argumentsi have no issue acknowledging several accusations at least on the partial level, that you suggestbut this does not progress the argumentationleeches like you really piss me off, you are my mortal enemythe kinda people, who "like" something throwing away their own voice and elevating other people's voice, giving them an objective value greater than that of an equal, which is democracy in practice and not on a voting paperyou are the retard, fucking retardand you go around throwing terms meant for analyzing symptoms, that people developed for being mistreated by people, who use their brain as little as you do. fucking retard. <- you see this ? it has a fucking in it, i one-upped your argument and invalidated your diagnosesstupid idiot
>>12211249They're the same game, mate. Just different release dates.
>>12212463>the game changed the course of history thanks to NintendoTendies aren't the ones making those claims, tho. It's literally just devs saying, "yeah, pretty much myself and everyone else copied, is copying and will copy OoT".
>>12211209I 100% agreed with you in the first place. I can definitely see how a retarded little autistic zoomie with no good sense could burn themselves out in the Kokiri Forest intro by doing that shit. >read all the optional text>grindan' rupees>get squashed by the rolling rock>can't get past first room in the deku tree>can't get past Rauru's dialogue quiz outside of the forest>get filtered by malon and talon at the castleMany such cases.
>>12209609I have never seen "backtracking" mentioned as anything but a bad thing.
>>12212750No, that was just one GTA dev blowing smoke in an interview and game journalists and tendies circlejerking it into an epic narrative.
>>12211151It's actually a bit surprising how easy it is to die whilst running 3 hearts. Even if you're micromanaging your healing/fairies and magic or whatever else. The strangest things can fuck you up. That said, running Ganon's Tower from start to finish without bottles is actually pretty hard.
>>12212776>nuh uh. It was just that one guy and all the others that don't matter, according to me
>>12212793>source: trust me broAlso note the intense, unrelenting faggotry of the Ocarina baby. I provided a very fair, even-handed summary giving Nintendo and Ocarina loads of credit for being the first game in the genre of 3D action adventure that would come to dominate 6th gen, and it's not enough. The faggot cannot help but nitpick the point, stomping his feet and insisting that every developer ever claimed to have "stolen" from OoT.Absolute delusion
>greatest game of all time causes contrarian seethe 27 years laterwow, riveting thread
>>12212817>Absolute delusionYes, your post is.
>>12212927What a comeback.Not an argument.
>>12207227The only thing this thread has give is more desire to play ocarina, but also its good to compare the design, limitations, and tec, and how it is compared to now, because it also makes one wonder, rhat is the design rather than what they could do with the tec that really make amazing games like ocarina
>Another>Fucking>Zelda thread
>>12213112>what is the design rather than what they could do with the tech that really make amazing games like ocarinaThis is something that barely anyone understands. I have no idea how the devs 'composed' the game to have the qualities it does. We have access to all the code and map data, all the music and sound effects, but nobody seems capable of actually understanding how it gives the impression of being so special, let alone replicating that. Everything from the lowest level of "how it feels to move around and interact with what's in front of you" to the highest level of "how the whole world seems to fit together" and the stuff between that are all ultra polished and employed together so well, despite having things like severe texture limitations to work with. I can hardly even think of a modern game where just the sound design and how environmental sound and SFX are used, not even counting the music (which is dynamic in its own right), is handled so that it gives the impression of there being a tangible world space so well.
>>12207178If by "modern gaming" you mean 1999, sure. >>12207168>>12207227OoT is flawed even for a 1998 game. OP calling it 7/10 is about right. It didn't stand the test of time. I still play Driver You Are the Wheelman, GoldenEye, Diablo, NetHack, and Angband a ton, but OoT isn't one of those games that aged like wine once the graphical and cinematic novelties died out. It's not a game like Driver and Goldeneye that test your motor skills, or Diablo, NetHack, ZZT, and Angband that make every playthrough feel like an adventure. For a linear action adventure it fell flat compared to the likes of Outcast, Ultima 7, and Dark Forces II. For a sword and sorcery game it doesn't feel anywhere as fun and challenging as Die by the Sword, or Blade of Darkness. The movement system is nowhere as enjoyable as Tomb Raider, Monkey Ball, and Oni. In the story department it's certainly not Broken Sword or even Final Fantasy, no matter how much I hate FF. And the puzzles? Slow and boring unlike Chips Challenge.You can't blame people for being so jaded about OoT when the journos totally overhyped a bland walking simulator with minimalistic and unoriginal themes and not so fun gameplay. People go into OoT expecting a 10/10 video game and couldn't find any. Even back in the N64 era, those more experienced in more video games wouldn't find the 10/10 experience they were promised to find. You can't blame anyone but easily impressed or even straight up dishonest journos.
>>12213127could be worse, could be another earthbound thread
I think the worst part is that its a rehash of the snes game (which was pretty boring to begin with) down to reusing the same sound effects in places. How fucking lazy do you have to be
>>12213141>but nobody seems capable of actually understanding how it gives the impression of being so special, let alone replicating that.Well, to answer this particular phrasing of the question: this is your personal bias and deep love of the game clouding your vision.>Everything from the lowest level of "how it feels to move around and interact with what's in front of you" to the highest level of "how the whole world seems to fit together" and the stuff between that are all ultra polished and employed together so well, despite having things like severe texture limitations to work with. I can hardly even think of a modern game where just the sound design and how environmental sound and SFX are used, not even counting the music (which is dynamic in its own right), is handled so that it gives the impression of there being a tangible world space so well.This is because the teams were smaller and more focused than today. Everything fits together so well BECAUSE THEY HAD TO BUILD IT ALL THEMSELVES. It's likely that many of the limitations worked in their favor, as it reduced the raw volume of asset production that modern games expect. A higher proportion of the labor could be devoted to the customized mechanics and details that makes all the Ocarina fans jizz their pants. They look past all the blatantly ugly shit because it was 1999 and most 3D games looked terrible.
>>12212610>oldmanyellsatcloud.postyou're incredibly retarded and pathetic. nobody is saying you cant have fun with it. nobody is saying you cant like it. recognizing and admitting flaws/shortocmings doesnt undo the fun you had. recognizing and admitting that it doesnt hold up to today's standards doesnt negate your childhood memories and love for it. your inability to reconcile that IS a massive tell and red flag that you have crippling autism and a worthless, immature opinion. especially when you say retarded shit like: >>12212658>with literal zero intent of making any meaningful argumentswhen you have made none yourself. you are here to fellate for the sake of fellating. rational thought means nothing to you, only championing oot. >you are my mortal enemyLMAO, case in point, i accept your admission and concession by proving me right.
>voraciously defending his ego, the manic, emotionally unstable autist cries out in pain as he strikes you
>>122068467/10 is too generous. Its more like a 4/10.
>>12206846Imagine typing what seems to be a character limit hitting autism rant and starting it with "I'm not sure". Anyway, that's where I stopped reading. Feel better, champ.
>>12213940Certainty is never certain.
>>12212463"it's good but not as good as you think" is not a rational criticism. You just revealed yourself as mentally ill.
>>12214141its probably one of the most sane and rational things said in this thread.the praise you lump on it is objectively far less rational. if anyone here is mentally ill, its you.
>>12214184Imagine thinking this>It's just not nearly as good or universally beloved as its fans believe it to be.and letting it bother you so much that you write paragraphs upon paragraphs about it. Actual mental illness.
>>12214218imagine thinking primitive 3d slop hasnt been topped. actual mental illness.
>>12214330it's really funny seeing you get so buck broken over a 27 year old game. sorry your favorite game will never be called the greatest of all time, anon. that must really suck
>>12213943Yes it is.
>>12214358>that must really suckIt's really not a big deal unless you are an idiot.
>>12206846Even Kojimbo thought it was shit.
>>12214581If anything that's a sign the game is good.
>>12214581Sounds like he suffered from motion sickness
>>12212775Probably because you're a zoomer raised on YouTube videos made by soilennial game critics and you took them seriously.Backtracking can be a tedious slog, but it can also be a judicious part of a well-balanced game design. It depends on various factors that most morons aren't even consciously aware of.
>>12214610No, you retard. It's because the only people that bring up backtracking are literal zoomers who are parroting what they hear. Nobody says "backtracking" like it's some feature. You would just call it "playing the game". It's a bait buzz word. The only game that actually overdoes "backtracking" is TTYD, but it is used to neg just about any game someone doesn't like.
>>12214581100% an issue with his TV. I know what he's talking about. Common symptom if refresh rates aren't quick enough/calibrated properly. It has happened to me before.
>>12214750To compare two peer games:Backtracking in NES Metroid gets tedious for two main reasons: enemies that respawn instantly and infinitely the moment their spawn point goes off screen, and long, monotonous vertical platforming segments.Backtracking in NES Legend of Zelda is no problem because enemies have a delayed respawn and because sometimes (especially when backtracking) you have an option to evade instead of fight, which is often significantly faster and easier. (You can choose to not kill stuff in Metroid also, but that's not bypassing the challenge like walking through a room full of Darknut or Wizrobes in LoZ1)
>>12214360Only uncertainty is certain.
>>12214358lol you're the one chimping out because somebody dared speak truth against your world of delusion. literally tranny behavior. im not retarded or narcissistic enough to consider my favorite game "the best game ever", but its very clear that you take personal offense when your favorite game is recognized for the slop that it is. just like when a tranny is forced to look at themselves in the mirror.
the game being a toy, the object of the toy being play, play being an expression of the freedom of the subject, indeed any game is capable of passing this universal rating system just as surely as any may fail it. in that regard it regulates with all the great authority and force of fashion, which demands today that a pantleg be long which yesterday was short. likewise criticism guided by such a principle can only be feckless and arbitrary. like fashion it is subject to the vicissitudes of taste to the exact degree as it proclaims taste to be a greater power than the mob and god alike, for each fail as universal the test of the particular. THAT should have been resolved in an upright, morally instructed Individual, in, that is to say, the subject of Education; but here we are posting anonymously on an internet forum, discussing toys.
>>12213961Kek. Based. Also saria is best girl.
>>12215527>hurr durr its all subjective and pointlessthats a lot of words for such a simple and stupid take. there are plenty of objective and measurable aspects of the game, as well as semantics of HOW those aspects affect subjective judgements. its a shame that you are too pretentious and autistic to understand that.you also seem like one of those retards that cant understand that nobody is saying that you cant like something, or that liking something flawed is a bad thing. your retard brain cant comprehend or reconcile that even if something is fundamentally flawed/bad, theres nothing wrong with liking it anyway. its the same mentality that views negative criticism of the thing as a personal attack on one's self and beliefs. grow up.
>>12206846i got the gamecube version. i really like the game.
>>12206846Dude wtf.I don’t get why these shitheads need to constanly criticize a game considered an all time classic by most everyone not trying to be a contrarian. Like its not really my genre but the game is excellent as a 3d action rpg. These criticisms are retarded… but forget my opinion, it’s like a general consensus top tier game. You can seethe about it all you like I guess why don’t we talk shit about an actual bad action rpg from the time like virtual hydlide? Oh, that’s right, because its not a contrarian opinion and nobody remembers it.
>>12215680its ok anon. you dont need to defend it. you can still enjoy the game. its ok to grow up and recognize that it doesnt hold up. the fascination and novelty of yesteryear isnt worth holding on to so dearly.
>>12213261-I still play Driver You Are the Wheelman, GoldenEye-taking into account replayability for a story-based RPG is not a fair consideration. in this scenario it would only be considered a bonus benefit>>12213550-you're incredibly retarded and pathetic-on what basis ? what do you base this accusation on ?-recognizing and admitting that it doesnt hold up to today's standards-this is exactly what makes you retarded and not me. OP deliberate chooses to play 240p etc. and rates it that way, even saying they don't use savestates. you can do that, but how is it that i have never played it without saved states and somehow OP's self-imposed handicapped experience is valid and mine is not ?your "recognizing and admitting" is the key takeaway here: by forcing objective measurement you essentially tell others to acknowledge "modern standard" to be an objective measurefor one you are willingly handicapping yourself and secondly you specify points, that some would view as inverted in terms of rating-especially when you say retarded shit like: >>12212658this is not retarded shit you fucking retard. i was purely insulted with zero input, fucking retard. you're the retard and autism is an excuse to not be-head or earthquake or shoot the individuals who shame honest men as the legislation of religion and police authority suggests, advocating peace ! the diagnosis of autism is nothing other than an INSULTi discussed every single point, gave a general view and highlighted the importance of acknowledging subjective view !that's not how being right works retard. you are just enjoying me getting mad, which is exactly what makes you a counterproductive individual within society>>12214141pretty sure he is addressing the speedrunners and challengers, who take appreciation into unrelatable levels
>>12215418i have no problem calling several games "the best game ever"this is what i mean. the moment you acknowledge objective rating you won't recognize yourself in the mirror anymore
>>12215773>>12215783
>>12215680That's not how it is.Feeling something, like for example fun, boredom or cheap rip-offs is magnitudes below the complexity of putting it into words.Which is why people like to use for comparison older games.And when newer people are told this comparison they are rightfully mad.However the entire problem is with objective rating, which as i have said, served the sole purpose to act as a defending statement against the news-writers, who suggested, that we were all purely blinded by nostalgia.We can see our points, but these people won'tAnd if we go further, then we would hit walls of having to acknowledge different taste among our own people. We just play it cool so you guys don't notice.It's not something, that i can force people to realize.All that matters is: if somebody rates something i can take a stance i if have a voice.If they realize, that "this is my taste" i'm good, i feel happy, recognized.However if they insist to blame this on emotional attachment from childhood, well then we can continue this same discussion in 10, 20, 30 years..You can do entire pages of trying to get it right, but what you cannot do is have power over what another will think of your pages.That is how communication ended on the internet and forced us to turn everything into exchanges of promoted presentations instead of asking each other "what do you think ?".A genuine question can't be made, if each response implies infuriating biases, that are assumed to be "common sense".
>>12215792What's your problem ?
>>12206846i liked this game well enough as a kid but the shill campaign in the mags was so annoying. i honestly don't even think it was the best n64 game, i spent more time with tetrisphere and wetrix (super cute game)
>>12215773>taking into account replayability for a story-based RPG is not a fair considerationThe thing is OoT just isn't a very fun game. The combat and movement systems aren't half as fun as Star Wars Dark Forces 2, another linear action game. The open world and NPC interactions aren't as intriguing as Outcast, a 1999 game of a similar genre. And it's not even an RPG in any sense of the world, even Diablo 1 with its simple and watered down RPG elements makes OoT's "RPG" elements look like a joke. My point is OoT didn't really do anything special, compared to its peers. Except being a cinematic walking simulator I guess. Perhaps the first high budget one of its kind. But only a year later, Shenmue came out, setting a far higher standard in cinematic games, and with a lot more interactibility and deeper combat too.
>>12215826OoT offers several weapons with different collision mechanics and sound effects and various foes.To me, that alone is not just a little bit, but very very fun.My emphasis was on "story-based RPG" and not to use your individual experiences and subjective preference as measure to scale how well it ranks as being an "RPG" as a genre.Because what i was saying is, that a game technically meant for a single play-through should not be evaluated for its replayablity.Which btw also makes me very sus of OP to question child-link travel speed, i didn't mention this.And for context:-i have never played or seen SWDF2-idk what "linear" is supposed to mean. i sure hope you aren't suggesting that these tryhard infinite dungeon creators can substitute user engagement created in a creative person's mind-I only know outkast the musical band. This proves, that i DO know well-known things such as that band without it requiring that i also know the game "Outcast"-I always liked Cronous. The only reason "Diablo" caught my eye was because everybody called Cronous a D2/wow clone and the most OP f2p guy i knew in cronous was a D2 player and wiped the entire place within weeks..-i saw shenmue only in dunkey video when he jokingly said that "lisa" was sampling "someone from shenmue". it looks TO ME like an ugly version of GTA 3. maybe there is also a contrast between the criminal behavior, that RL characters suggest vs an actual colorful fantasy-character "RPG"You are selling your subjective impressions as objective points while also dismissing what i said.As somebody with an unpopular genuine taste in cronous i won't have the level of judgement you may be expecting.I also don't see, at any point, regardless of checking out other games, that i should have to shift my view to acknowledge OoT as less fun.There is subjective difference, and there is fatigueing/overplaying.If you can't see that, too bad.
I tryed D1 and 2 btw.The thing is, saying to "dislike D2" while being a huge fan of the RPG genre and anything that is somewhat similar to D2 is too big of a contradiction and would 1shot the public view of my sanity.We all drift from different angles into videogames i suppose, but ultimately these are peak creations and personally i would rather enjoy my games and take pride in it instead of nitpicking about the correctness of "good" and "bad".You can of course do that, and i will try to acknowledge any arguments as long as you understand, that they won't shift my view just because you made them.
>>12215805He's a literal 37yo manchild wagie buck broken over this game's reception.
>>12215871>that i should have to shift my view to acknowledge OoT as less fun.nobody is asking you to, RETARD.the topic/question is about QUALITY. nobody gives a shit if you have fun playing it.and certainly nobody gives a shit if you had fun playing it AT THE TIME. "at the time" is incredibly irrelevant.
>>12215805>>12215895His name's OoTist or Zealot spammer.>37 years oldhttps://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/678375608/#q678395148>Wagiehttps://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/678375608/#q678396674>Obsessed with a game/fandom he hateshttps://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/678375608/#q678394196>Spammed his buzzword for 8 years https://desuarchive.org/vr/search/text/%22zelda%20zealots%22/https://arch.b4k.co/v/search/text/%22zelda%20zealots%22/order/asc/https://desuarchive.org/vr/search/text/%22oot%20zealots%22/order/asc/https://arch.b4k.co/v/search/text/%22oot%20zealots%22/order/asc/
>>12215917Man, he buckbroke you hard if you keep tabs like this. Why even care?
>>12215940see >>12214358
>>12215975Care about>Some rando on a Mongolian basket-weaving forumor >An iconic game and frequent topic of discussionYou're not helping your case.
>>12215987Get back to work, wagie.
>>12215917What's more pathetic is he parrots that pretentious contrarian Egofagtor's opinions, which is some hill to die on. kek
>>12215897I'm sorry, but i'm not a retard in this context.Yes, quality like flappy birds and doodle jump getting instant try-out and joy as opposed to massive trashy 100gb+ open world trash. Subjective, as i said.Yeah you do. Otherwise you are saying, that your impression is valid and mine is not. Which is what you kids have been doing ever since you spawned into our personal space called youtube, created to defend righteous feelings against industrialized retards, and started addressing everything from your baby-milk-sucking viewpoints."at the time". i'm sorry but according to my ctrl+F i didn't say that. i understand you may be talking to multiple people like we all are. have fun engaging with the other person on that one>>12215917Thank you for the context. I only checked 1 or 2 links. At least in one of them the person suggests to keep the genre alive, which is very lovely to hear.Personally i always think of people like this to be kids.1 criterium for kids is, that they rebel against being told literally everything what to do by mimicing behaviour, that appear dominating. But without the moral or intellectual context, which essentially makes them annoying retards.Another criterium is, that kids try to find the resistance, that their education may not give them.Which is why, personally, i would never assume anybody above the age of like 25 to just randomly Lol at literal arguments.My benchmark used to be 27 for "kids" increasing yearly, but some super good OoT player suggested, that the brain is fully developed at age 25 and i have seen an increase in quality in videos from some of those little "iceberg" and "echochamber" kids.
>>12216039>that your impression is valid and mine is notits not about impressions. that mistake is why you're a retard. doubly so if your impression is to glaze it to no end in desperate attempts to defend against (valid) criticism.>i get my opinions from "super good oot players" and youtube videosLMFAO bro you are like the poster boy for autism. go get checked if you havent already.
>>12215940More like you got called out for your repetitive lolwcow behavior and now trying to save-face.
>>12206846It's fucking awful, finally tried it after years of waiting and it was absolute shite. A game for teenage girls maybe. I dunno.
>>12215917NTA but fuck me you are a derranged stalker. Are you on medication?
>>12216232>>12216237Because that was worth the bump.
>>12215871>>12215826>>12216039>>12215917Samefagging like this, you are actually completely fuckig insane. Full on schizophreniaFuck zelda. The people into it give me the creeps.
>>12215871>several weapons >different collision mechanics >sound effects >various foes.Well, sounds like every other game. >a game technically meant for a single play-through should not be evaluated for its replayablityI didn't. It's just not very fun even for a single playthrough. >And for context:There's nothing wrong with trying those OoT's contemporaries even in 2025. They're plenty fun. Unless you go into DF2 with motion sickness I guess.>subjective impressions as objective pointsSame with those journos then. But even when seen objectively, what did OoT achieve that its contemporaries and games before it hadn't? What makes it deserving of being called "the greatest game of all time"? Why does it deserve that special treatment? That's the question nobody has been able to answer. I suppose it's purely the presentation that people love so much. >regardless of checking out other games, that i should have to shift my view to acknowledge OoT as less funYou won't have to change your opinion on OoT after playing those games. It's a matter of getting to know what its contemporaries achieved. You know, being open minded instead of singling out OoT as the greatest ever before trying out the rest.
>>12216276>What makes it deserving of being called "the greatest game of all time"? Why does it deserve that special treatment?nothing. especially when you look at the general quality of games made since then. its literally just blind zealotry.
why are retards still eternally asshurt about some game that was the cream of the crop more than two decades ago
why are retards unable to admit this game is actually mid at BEST?
>>12216276afff.Okay let's start.Every other game is distinct in lacking the clear appealing colors, that OoT has like the action buttons and c-buttons and tunic colors. As trivial as it may seem there is a reason why good wholesome just-kids find an easy avenue into cartoons. Those same cartoons about which the biggest balls we have now is that AVGN praises staturday morning stuff, but nobody realizes, that we are in charge of choosing what to see. And we decide to put trash on TV instead.If i make the argument objective about colors, then you are gonna name several other titles with colors. If i drop another argument, you would counter that etc.This is not something, that i necessarily want to put into words, but if you say it like that "sounds like every other game." Well just even on first glace by this metric alone this is false.-"It's just not very fun even for a single playthrough."-yes i acknowledge that. however, then don't at the same time say, and i quote:"It didn't stand the test of time.""I still play ... a ton, but OoT isn't one of those games that aged like wine ..."That "single playthrough" is equivalent to a guy trying the game and just leaving it there and not re-visiting it.If you do re-visit it, for whatever reason, you can't at the same time say "It's just not very fun even for a single playthrough."-i appreciate your respect for motion sickness and i always at least give it a shot. i'm surprised you are aware of it while we're talking OoT. i will detail this in a later reply-You are free to do that, critical rating i mean. But the thing is if you make a rating, that talks graphics for example, and i have no issues with graphics at any time that i play it, which means during older times on emu and during newer times on HD textures, then you are willfully blindNobody, who plays any game with any form of attachment as in personally liking the game, not an emotional veil covering judgement, goes out of their way to criticise
>>12215917Kek. The laughing stock of /vr/. This guy is hopeless. Completely and utterly consumed by this 27 year old game. The fact that retards like this are so assbroken over it is proof enough it is such a great game.
Part 2:If you do criticise then don't mind taking the views of people, who are unaffected by what you are viewing critically.Also the "..." are about other games, i just shorthanded that. This is for clarification, i invite you to defend your stance on this if it doesn't look good enough in my post. I am not fond of catering to length-limits and moved on to part 2.Next, the motion sickness. I meant to clarify "trying new games".The thing is the amount of many different games available make it wasted effort to do that. I tryed to mimic omer from original mmohut YT channel once, you know, just trying every game giving it my own rating, local for myself.Very quickly became clear is not worth it.I use my own visual heuristics as an estimate to even just give a game a try. Most of them even fail.In a world, that is this fully cramped to me the best way is to let things come my way, either through ads, or by seeing somebody play, or otherwise spotting something. I have tryed several games, darkstory, margonem, some others, and they are simply not worth the time to "just check them out" to me. I would rather just idle around with whatever comes to mind. That is the natural way and things will come to me naturally. If i find something you suggest interesting i will check it out. Otherwise i might just do like i like to do and for example go watch a playthrough of heart of darkness on ps1 by kawaii games(random channel i picked) while leaning back and enjoying my food.>>12216246"Samefagging ?" Are you suggesting this is all one person.Listen retard, "schizophrenia" is a mental disorder that not even remotely has any of the symptoms you are associating with this. What you are thinking about is "MPD" or "Multiple Personality Disorder", a sometimes very dangerous and sometimes very fragile condition.You fucking retards need to up your knowledge.If you had even pea of brain, then this would sparta kick you of your high horse, idiot. But it don't. Retard.
>>12216643Nobody here is arguing about the game being great or not. The entire point of debate is that you retards are deluded by the idea of a single individual having a voice and everybody else having none.And if you insult our judgement with your personal preferences, then surprise people can speak their mind, where you trash people do not abuse the "report" buttons specifically meant to deal with troublemakers like yourself.You trash individual.
>>12216079Oh yeah right i forgot this one.By now i know, that you will insist to remain retarded in the same way, that you pricks, who steal our positions go to discord mods to religiously uphold customs, that are meant to be used in collaboration with the thinking part of each of us.Essentially making it so, that somebody who directly answers a question is considered a criminal, because your customs dictate "if you are told what to do you won't learn", which basically shuts down the entire point of discord.And since you insist to remain retarded i will write this just to defend my point, and not in the hopes, that an idiot is gonna learn.A person looks at the screen and evaluates "this looks good" or "this looks bad".A person looks at the screen and evaluates "this looks good like this" and "but this doesn't look good like that".Everything is entirely subjective.Criticism uses metrics, that are entirely subjective.And your second part is just a call for violence. What is your metric to not be "autistic" ? Oh yeah, to conveniently follow what you say.You have no avenue made for this at all, just like you have no avenue made for doubting what you are calling criticism, implying it to be objective and not subjective.I never liked water temple. Have i ever made any rating because of it ? No. You see where i'm coming from.You cannot forcefully quantify a game.A person looks at a rating and thinks: "i can use this criterium and this, maybe this."This too is entirely subjective.
>>12216662>By now i know, that you will insist to remain retarded in the same way, that you pricks, who steal our positions go to discord mods to religiously uphold customs, that are meant to be used in collaboration with the thinking part of each of us.>Essentially making it so, that somebody who directly answers a question is considered a criminal, because your customs dictate "if you are told what to do you won't learn", which basically shuts down the entire point of discord.... what the fuck even is this word soup? what does "steal our positions" reference? who said anything about discord? none of this nonsense is coherent at all. the funny thing is, im certain that you think it does make sense, and thats all the more evidence, once again, that you have autism. >Everything is entirely subjective.>Criticism uses metrics, that are entirely subjective.its really not. OBJECTIVELY enemy ai in other games is far more engaging. OBJECTIVELY other games have enemies that dont just jump around, not engaging you. OBJECTIVELY text boxes telling you how to use bombs every single time is not necessary. OBJECTIVELY there are better ways to convey to the player that the doors are locked behind you that takes less time. just to name a few. there are plenty of objective comparisons and statements to make about a game. even things that incorporate a certain level of subjective judgement, like how "challenging" a puzzle or enemy may be, incorporate a variety of objective considerations, like "how complex or simple" it is. >a call for violencewhy is being accused of autism a "call for violence"? lmao. especially when you exhibit telltale signs of crippling neurodivergence. look in a mirror, buddy. everyone else can see it, just be honest with yourself.
People only praise this game because some youtuber they watched a long time ago said it was his favorite.
>>12216328Obsessed 37 year old wagie poster btw.
>>12216712>obsessed>says the guy with bookmarked archiveslollmao evenhow come you dont actually contribute to the discussion? oh thats right, because you dont have any points to make, and you're just an obsessed troll.
>>12216717You certainly love projecting. Don't you have work tomorrow, wagie? Or did you get fired for publicly seething over a video game?
>>12216728post proof/source of income, age, and hands :)
Zelda was never good.I can't believe Nintendo ditched so many good series for such a bore.Nearly Nintendo franchise is better than it.People are starting to trash on OOT and call it unplayable, thank goodness for that.
>>12216867tsmtnintendo just pretended zelda was popular for 39 years and everyone believed it
>>12216903>tsmtIs this some TikTokism?
>>12216685-fair take. i'll take it. the idea is entirely based on the idea of dealing with 18+- year-old cyberbullies, which is not reflected in your current writing and therefore i will not defend that view in a response to this writing-yes. these are objective points, i cannot defend against these. that would be pointless and counterproductive. i invite you, however, to closely pay attention to the things, that i said throughout the entire thread, especially the suggestion, that one person's preference has to represent all people's preferences, and also pay attention to the self-handicapping for "original play" vs. choosing to use modern advantages for somebody playing the game, because he likes the game. The way that things have been said, all my defenses are justified. And as i said about your statements, which are alot more specific i don't see a point in advocating defense against them. With sophisticated writing like this however in my mind this would be the rating of a zoomer, if not equivalent to a playtest for a gamedev. Not at all what i expect to be a player rating. And the ratings above are alot more like "i played this so i can rate this" rather than "i choose what i play assuming i will like it", which buckets you into the people, who love a game and are fully entitled to, for example, hate water temple for thinking we broke the game, as authentic players with contemporary tools.-because it is not an accusation tied to an action, therefore i cannot defend against it. and "neurodivergence" implies lack of free will>>12216867The person loving "chocolate ice cream" in his mind the only accurate rating if there had to be one would be defined by having to be above vanilla ice creamThe same for vanilla-lovers.You are taking the choco-lovers into vanilla-realm and objectifying subjective taste.This is unrelated to the objective remarks above, that i concede to. I find this to be valid, especially considering what kinda posts i reply to, mindyou
>>12216685I can 1-up this actually, for the OoT brothers:You sound very well-chosen with your words.I guarantee you, if these kids take your exact arguments it will sound like they are old people complaining about everything coming into their way, giving suggestion to the idea of: "calm down. it's just a game, bro.."Have fun with that one.
>>12217038>i invite you, however, to closely pay attention to the things, that i said throughout the entire threadthen you should learn how to write and express yourself clearly and CONCISELY like a normal human being. your inane ramblings do you a disservice.>ice creamagain, its not about liking something. its about the absolute retarded imposition that because you like something, that it is of good quality. you can like something while recognizing it to be of poor quality. sadly, the obsessed ZEALOTS that champion and defend oot are incapable of recognizing or reconciling those two things. to them, it is of good quality BECAUSE they like it. BECAUSE they liked it when they were kids. BECAUSE nothing has fascinated them with novelty in the way that oot did back then. they MISTAKENLY assume that to be, or at least be indicative of, quality.
>>12217109i'd rope if i was this butthurt over a 30 year old video game's reception
>>12206846In the UK you could tell reviewers were pretending to be super hyped for this game. Took bloody forever to come out too.Always felt like they were biting their tongue when it came to the big N stuff, when they were slagging off a third party game they were ruthless. I think a lot of them resented being stuck on N64 duty
What is the definitive way to play this on an emulator?N64, the Gamecube collection version, or the 3DS version? I'm playing on the Gamecube version and the drops to 4-5 FPS when swinging your sword is unbearable
>>12217359Wii VC or N64. GC is the worst version.There's also a PC port that works well.
>>122173593DS in my experience.
>>12215669you didnt read, you didnt understand. instead you bastardized for the convenience of your posture. decisionistic ninny.
>>12217389>>12217384N64 or 3ds definitely. I had a bunch of problems with the VC version.
>>12216703YT didn't exist when this game came out, li'l nigga.
>>12216648Stay mad, pleb.
>>12217109>it is of good quality BECAUSE they like it.100% conjecture. You have absolutely no way of knowing that or proving that. It literally only exists in your head. Something bothers you so you are fabricating delusions. It is comical that you persist in your fantasy, but it is still quite sad to see.
You are all fags because good/great is a matter of opinion.
I didn't like it when I played it on 64I didn't like it when I tried again on gcI didn't like it when I tried again on an emulatorit's just not a very good game, i haven't enjoyed any zelda games other than wind waker and that was mostly for the sunny island vibe the game has
>>12217945What about it didn't you like? It made me feel happy when I played it.
>>12206846It sucks ass unless you are eight and if that fact had not been censored for years here as forbidden knowledge no one would care about it at all by now
>>12217527>You have absolutely no way of knowing that or proving that.lmao, no you just have to listen to them talk. they prove it themselves. it always boils down down to the game being great/amazing because it just IS. they'll praise absolutely awful aspects out of sheer delusion and buzzwords, and even if you illustrate in clear points how deficient those things are, they still suck it off. its very clear that they dont praise it for merit.
>>12217636so you admit that you're only in it to troll. you have nothing of value, and you're only "laughing" for the act of it. >khi've played 3 games. they're cut and fun.>/a/occasionally, but usually just so i can get information on upcoming events in a story.>fgclmao not me, archivefag. you're really bad at this.
>>12217109No, that is not how it is. If you scroll up, you can see a numerical rating of "7". Then there are several remarks, some of which are artificially chosen, like "240 fps" or "replayability", whose validity i attack among others.Every single argument made by ME attacks individually picked arguments, that contextually suggest this objective rating.Retards like you, however, are just singling out individual snippets with disregard to their respective context, which is entirely basing itself of criticising the poor way, that suggesting objective rating is handled by these individuals.And you are ignorant of that, because you conveniently think, that responding to individual snippets of mine with disregard to their context and raison d'etre is on the same level as me responding to individual snippets, all of which suggest, that if we talk back that talking back is invalid.>>12217118What do you mean reception ?When people play it, because they were misled to think they HAVE to like it, it is just expected, that they didn't have a good time. Which is clearly visible just by seeing some of those impatient fucks, who can't spend a second of paying attention without modding. For those, who gave it a fair chance, sure i see that, and i acknowledge their subjective rating, to which i can respond with my subjective remarks. And if you call it objective, then depending on their argumentation, which is not all as on-point as individual complaints a recent poster has made, i can talk back on that.>>12217132Provide some context please, so we can take a stance on what the hell you are talking about. If you want to that is.>>12217359100% Personal choice. I hate remake trash, so i avoid 3ds fakery or other remakes of other games, but that is just my personal preference. It would probably come down to emu settings too i think.
>>12206846>it runs at 240p resolution and-i agree that oot is overrated but you clearly asked chatgpt to write an essay about its "flaws"
AIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEE PEOPLE WHO PLAY OCARINA OF TIME THINK IT'S GOOD I'M GOING INSANE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111oneoneone
>>12217945Exactly. It's your personal view and i fully agree with it if you say it like that.
I actually happen to be working on a full remake of OoT, AMA. Working in Unity High Definition, remaking all assets, fully voice acting. Probably RTX support.The gameplay will be faithful to the original where it matters, and improved on in aspects that really need it. If I end up adding new sidequests it will all be optional; you will be able to play the game without ever seeing it.
>>12218248Bro, i wish this was ChatGPT.That thing is logically consistent, so it's fault can be seen in its own reasoning or easily be argued against on face value.Like people would be scratching their head if they only resorted to chatgpt.
>>12218302UNREAL ENGINE 5 WITH RTX SUPPORT!?NO FUCKING WAY!!!!!!!!
>>12218209Just a word of warning: You ought to private your Steam account, tranny.
Such a great game. Widely beloved for good reason. Watching these shitheads twist themselves into pretzels to go against general consensus is interesting, but I don’t know why they do it. These points they’re making are about the most minute, insignificant bullshit.They can do this contrarian thing forever, it won’t change many minds. For one thing it’s ancient history, the game reviewed great, sold well, everyone liked it and its fondly remembered by everyone but like these 5 guys on 4chan. For another, OOT is one of those games where the vast majority who have played it know it’s great, even if it’s not their favorite genre or company. You can tell it’s great by playing for 10 minutes.It’s like talking shit about Pac-man, but like really breaking down that the ghost movement patterns ackshually aren’t perfectly random, when the game was obviously beloved by most everyone for way more simple reasons. People like OOT because its got great combat and bosses (no problem with lock on), a big, varied world to explore with side questsand things to do like fishing, interesting dungeons, a simple story and good music. Everything you’d want from a foundational 3d action rpg. I don’t notice anything with the camera or swimming controls or whatever that ruins any of that.
>>12218309>UNREAL ENGINE 5Nope, Unity, as I stated quite clearly.
>>12218313and what steam account would that be?
>>12218319>its got great combat
>>12218339A follow-up, the rules are pretty bizarre, and flamewar could be considered my personal offense by those rules, i publically and without shame or regret admit. I would stand in favour of that as i felt personally insulted by the implications of objective rating. Moderation is free to disagree, opposition is free to disagree, fellow OoT players, who are less critical are free to disagree, others are also free to disagree.Anywho "US Law":"the defendant intended that the communication be taken as a threat, andthe threat was credible and specific so as to place a person in fear of harm."
>>12218339>>12218356dont forget to look at the very last option, main-character-kun.
>>12218371What would that be, side-character-kisama ?If you didn't use all these implications you would have no ground to stand on, because then there is context, that can be provided and used as legal defense, that even under harsh judgement remains visible to all.>>12218319"It’s like talking shit about Pac-man, but like really breaking down that the ghost movement patterns ackshually aren’t perfectly random, when the game was obviously beloved by most everyone for way more simple reasons.People like OOT because its got great combat and bosses (no problem with lock on), a big, varied world to explore with side questsand things to do like fishing, interesting dungeons, a simple story and good music. Everything you’d want from a foundational 3d action rpg. I don’t notice anything with the camera or swimming controls or whatever that ruins any of that."VERY well put ! Thank for the contribution.
>>12218356It doesn't violate any law when the troon posted their info itself.
>>12218452>You can still play games without being a manchild>Proceeds flash his participation awards from the various toys he """owns""">Is a fanboy of the gayest vidya crossover collab franchise in existence >Bitches non-stop over people lauding a game where you play as a polygonal elf twink>>>>>Is nearing fucking 40'sThis faggot's just a walking mass of projection huh. I wouldn't at all be surprised of he literally looks like those stereotypical fat fedora redditors.
>>12218452>Just a word of warning: You ought to private your Steam account, tranny.How is this not a threat ?And just for clarification, the only reason to look up "laws" is for the idiots without own moral compass, who strictly adhere to laws and consider somebody like loltyler to yell loudly in a YT video, clearly threatening and even increasing my heart rate, physically affecting me, with no other related heart-issues, to be perfectly fine for "not violating any laws" while withholding comments, mere text, that happen to contain swear words as per filtering.>Just a word of warning: You ought to private your Steam account, tranny.How is this not a threat ?And also i just realized what you mean by "troon".Mind your wording please.If you have an accusation to make within the post, go for it, so i can take a stance.Otherwise you are setting a bad precedent for cussing people in a way, that is not apparant on first sight to be related to any first offense.
>>12218483>a walking mass of projectionsays the archive fag obsessed that someone dares criticize his favorite game.
>>12218452and whose steam profile is that, anon?
>>12207178>There is nothing to refute except the player's mentality. It's the equivalent of watching a classic movie from the 30's and saying "it's in black & white, there is no cgi, and all the actors are upper class white people. This movie doesn't hold up at all!"It's the equivalent of watching a badly-shot, poorly-written movie from the 1930's and making those same complaints. OoT is neither badly-shot nor poorly-written, but it does have dogshit pacing and limited controls. Wind Waker has a much-better control scheme, and Majora's Mask has much better pacing, which is ironic because you have to keep replaying the story to beat it.
>>12218483also, i see that you're taking things out of context. the schizo was trying to make a claim that "you dont even play games" and as such i was "saying people that do are manchildren".so i clarified, explaining that you can play games without being a manchild, but its the manchildren that champion oot like a golden idol. also, i illustrated that i do indeed play games, with a little screenshot of games i have 100% on, as well as the 193 games in library. hate on kingdom hearts all you want, i simply found it cute and fun. god forbid somebody enjoy something, right? i really dont care if you hate it or think its gay (it is pretty gay). i understand that its not for most people. i grew up with disney and the gameplay is fun for the most part. and what part of my age is the problem exactly? what is your age, so we can get a baseline of what is righteous and proper?and yes, i am tired of oot being unjustly praised and put on a ridiculous pedestal. as such, i will participate in online discourse as i see fit and keep the facts. meanwhile, archive fag will continue to have an absolute meltdown everytime i show up, which really only illustrates his own deficiencies. of course, he will never dare to put any of his personal details out there. partly because he is terrified of doing so, but also because he has nothing to trump with.
>>12206846Why do people get so mad if you criticize Ocarina of Time though? Something like Phantasy Star 2 was considered a groundbreaking classic at the time as well but nobody gets angry if you call that one a shit game now. Some stuff just doesn't age well for a lot of reasons
>>12218302Please tell me what your actual plans are and how you hope to go about this. Like, if you are serious about his than go ahead, but given we're at a point where there are several different decomp/recomp/ports of the game either released or in development, plenty hacks of both the N64 and 3DS versions, and even ones that combine the two in some from, along with cross OoT/MM features, and an existing Unreal fan remake of the game, what exactly are you planning to bring to the table that would justify the effort and dedication that this would entail?Like, I've already talked down other people from attempting exactly what you're doing, because they turned out be be naively taking on something, the actual scope of which they just did not understand. It's entirely possible that you actually know what the fuck you are doing and why, in which case I'm genuinely interested in what approach you're taking, but otherwise good luck not crashing and burning out in the attempt.
>>12219227video games don't age you fucking retard
>>12219729cope harder, because they absolutely do.
Its kinda funny seeing americans having a melty because theyve realised the world doesnt actually give a shit about ocarina of time. I knew this was coming.
>>12219736games don't age. you do. the game stays exactly the same forever.
>>12219738Polish zoomer here, OoT is one of my favorite games
>>12206846It really wasn't that impressive at the time either. Look at contemporary arcade games. Ocarina looked like some NES thing would in 1994 to most people that didn't have the N64 as their sole 3D video game experience.
>>12219741quality is mostly contextual. as the context around it changes, so does the quality of the thing. the same way a musket was amazing at the time, but is now considered a really shitty firearm. the same way the ford model T was considered amazing at the time, but is now consider a really shitty car. things age. get used to it.
>>12219227Phantasy Star 2 has the extra freak circumstance that it was localized light years faster than the franchises the Japanese liked the best. PS2 for Genesis came out in English before Final Fantasy 1 for NES.
>>1221980520 FPS feels as bad as it looks.
>>12206846>average 20fpsI've emulated fighting games with unstable frame rates so that's pretty good as far I'm concerned. Didn't bother reading the rest I just assume you got bored and called it shit. I used to assume games that didn't appeal to me were bad but then I realized they're just not for me.
>>12219854OoT did framerate very weird.>file select screen runs at 60fps>pause menu runs at 30fps>gameplay runs at 20fps>BUT all inputs are registered at 60fps
>>12219803this is exactly the same thing as saying a tranny's neovagina will be just as good as a woman's vagina in a few years, just give it some time
>>12219854>i've chosen to eat shit before, so pig slop isnt that badwhat a non-argument.
>>12206846It was outsold by tekken 3Most of the n64 library was outsold by something even as mid as Croc on the playstation 1But tendies will always claim that zelda was groundbreaking somehow
>>12219923>moar sales = moar groundbreakingniggerbrain
>>12219810you don't have to play it in 20fps anymore thanks to frame interpolation.it looks far worse above 30
>>12207152>>12207168That's not why these threads get made. This isn't someone's actual opinion, or even a recycled one. These threads are made to gradually make 4chan a less interesting place for its userbase in order to eventually kill their interest in browsing it altogether.
>>12206846What's the appeal of Zelda games?
>>12219964nostalgia
>>12219928If your "amazing" game can't make your console sell more than the troubled Sega Saturn, then yes, your amazing game is overrated crap.
>>12219971really not beating the niggerbrain allegations, anon
>>12219964fun action adventure games with light RPG elements and solid gameplay.at least for retro zelda. nu-zelda is different
>>12219973That's what a niggerbrain would do: deny any reasoning
>>12219979>you should reply to my lie in earnest or you're denying reasoningabsolute niggerbrain
>>12219982>less sales = moar groundbreakingHere's your niggertendiebrain on niggerbrain
>>12219985you're actually fucking retarded holy shit
>>12219987I have a backed argument, you don'tSticky with your delusions
>>12219987how does a retard like that even develop such vocabulary lmfaoo
>>12219923>tekken 3>Croc do these games get as much attention as OoT still does?
>>12219971lmao what sales numbers are you looking at?
>>12220008rabid fanbois keeping something on a pedestal doesnt mean that it deserves to be there.
>>12220010Japan
>>12211168>>12211189>>12211190>>12211192tl;dr
>>12219803Talking out your ass, kid. Both the black powder musket and the Model T are still amazing to this day. Have you even shot one? Doubtful. They are a blast. Literally. Enjoyable in a way that is totally distinct from modern firearms. They are like literal arm canons. You can see the projectile fly in mid-air with drop and everything. Old mechanical equipment like gas engine cars are practically alive. They put so much care into their creation that they can purr like a cat or chuff like a horse. Go get some life experiences.
>>12219227>nobody gets angry if you call that one a shit gameIs that what's happening? No, you dummy. It's all in your head.
>>12218203That's exactly what someone under the spell of their own fantasies and delusions would say.
The fact this game gets all these threads with such a ridiculous post count is proof enough of OoT's greatness. Only the mightiest of things will develop such vehement discussion. If you retards left OoT alone, then it would probably fade into obscurity, but since you sperg out over it so much, you turn it into something even bigger than it was.
>>12219976The original LoZ for NES has almost no RPG elements. It was an arcade-style action game with great combat mechanics and a solid adventuring world to explore.
>>12220083The Japanese just didn't care much for the N64 in general. The lack of RPGs was definitely a factor among other things. It was the only time Sega actually beat Nintendo in the Japanese market . Japan isn't really a good indicator of the success of N64 games as it was a weak market for the console
>>12219227I think a better example is Final Fantasy VII.Extraordinarily, widely-beloved game.Was even jerked off in its era by faggy Game Journos as hard as Ocarina.You can provoke reactions with some lazy trollard criticism, and you get some occasional "FF7 is the best game of all time" bait, but for the most part the most heated arguments about FF7 involve whether it's better or worse than some other fan's favorite entry in the series.Because the average FF7 fan grew up and recognize both the strengths and weaknesses of the game. The average FF7 fan accepts that not everyone is going to enjoy the game as much as they did. Some people might find the combat repetitive. Some might have found the tone too dark or the comic relief too silly. Some might hate the minigames or the long summon animations. You can argue about that stuff.With Ocarina you just can't criticize anything. You can critique pretty much any minigame in FF7 and worst that will happen is that you'll encounter someone who liked the minigame defending it. But if you so much as suggest that chicken roundup wasn't that fun, half a dozen Ocarina babies will have a meltdown and start howling insults and flinging garbage at you.
>>12220450health and strength progression are rpg elements
>>12220531Health progression and sword upgrades alone doesn't make an RPG.Either you balance a game with a power progression and permanent upgrades or not.Doesn't matter the genre.So I reiterate:>almost no RPG elements.Frankly even Ocarina doesn't have many RPG elements.The main element that makes people think RPG is all the "interacting with NPCs"And that's also only barely an RPG element.
>>12206846thats zelda for you in general. it tries to be everything but does nothing particularly well. its like the darksiders of its time.
>>12220570So you'd concede that Zelda is an Action RPG?
>>1222057980s home computer warriors have been desperately trying to find an adventure type game with top-down action combat that's better than the OG Legend of Zelda and have yet to produce one.
>>12220489Good points. I would have at one time considered FF7 the greatest game ever and I still enjoy replaying it every few years. It still has a lot going for it. Nowadays though I would argue way more that stuff like Doom,Diablo 2 or X-Com UFO Defense deserve to be called the best ever. I always find something to enjoy and a reason to go back to playing them. 90's PC gaming had some true classics and while I consider myself more of a console player I can't help but appreciate some of the truly great games that came out of that era
>>12220008OoT still gets attention? By what metric?
>>12220602Action games in general were kinda shit on PC until the 90's at least. RPGs were where the computer format really shined in that decade with stuff like Ultima,Wizardry,the Bard's Tale and the Gold Box D&D games all delivering great games that nothing on consoles could match
>>12220601No, not by any reasonably strict definition of the term.I'll grant that ARPG gets used as a convenient category for every top-down action game with sword & magic, because those games tend to share some core mechanics and a similar audience. But even within that category you can find games that are significantly more and less RPG-like. True ARPGs will usually have multiple stats and build options. Enemies are also more likely to be defined by stats and weaknesses than mechanical novelty as in Zelda. ARPGs are more likely to have inventories with mundane consumable items and Final Fantasy Adventure vs Link's Awakening is a good example. In FFA you gain experience and allocate a stat point at each level-up, so you can build more physical or more magical as you proceed. FFA has a huge list of enemies, but many of them have fairly basic movement patterns and are instead more defined by their stats (health/defenses), weaknesses and status effects on their attacks like blind and poison. FFA also has lots of different weapons to choose from. So in FFA, although the combat is action-oriented there's still an element of RPG-style strategy that's present in some way.In Link's Awakening, meanwhile, there's minimal "build variety". You may get items in a different order (I can't remember tbqf), but there's no choosing between strength and stamina and wisdom like in FFA. Monsters, instead of being defined primarily by stats and weaknesses, are defined by unique movement patterns. Like the Stalfos that jump away from your sword or bats that stay still and hard to notice until they dart at you. LA has duel-like encounters with other sword wielders where you have to maneuver your sword attacks around their defense. Overall, the emphasis is always on exploration of mechanics and stats like health are really just a "mistake buffer."
>>12219227For the same reason that i get mad when modern trash kids make a smash bros. tier list, which can only be valid within the realm of playing with a superhuman(aka. machine-controlled) reaction time. And then they disagree with every single commentor because they are unwilling to see another's perspective.A discussion is like a professional activity. Feelings like hunger, anger, happiness, these are our natural conditions. I am not immune to getting tilted to parts of posts, nor do i have control at all times to write reasonable things, and in the case of lack of knowledge even factually correct things.If you want to look at how artificial a factually correct conversation would look like, then look at how according to some YT videos euclid handled that, going by individual definitions of each geometry..The natural condition is to get mad unreasonably, because each view implies a consensus, that is inspired from seeing science being practiced outside the realm of the own mind.And a personal evaluation is not a scientific practice unless measurable.And a consensus implies previous agreement of factual correctness by all participants.You can't just see the form of scientific practice, mimic that form without its specific statements and throw your opinion out there as objective truth while assuming, that others have to use the same metrics for evaluation.Well you can, but it's like "these people aren't playing games, they are rating them". How many people here "rated" games when they were kids ? Exactly.PS2 is less known. Nintendo invented gaming in terms of frontpaging it and only its roots with respect to simple colors are true to "Nintendo" and not this lawsuit mess of, what to say..well this bandwagon of the standardized "consoles" we have today.
>>12219803We can acknowledge what you said, because it makes sense.But if i say "Vanilla Ice cream doesn't age", then you would not acknowledge this argument, but obsess with objecting to us.And that's the problem.
>>12220404waxing poetic doesnt magically change their quality. you're literally just being a willfully ignorant contrarian.
>>12220419the truth speaks for itself.
>>12220842trying to compare it to icecream doesnt really work. vanilla icecream, as a concept, does not age, or at least really hasnt yet. by what context would it be aging? its a silly comparison, and entirely irrelevant. "i can take the same concept, but change the noun to some random thing, and now it doesnt make sense" is not some "gotcha" or relevant "argument". you're just being retarded. why did i choose a car? why did i choose a gun? because of the nuanced context and how it matches up perfectly. throwing in icecream does not. additionally, vanilla icecream as a concept doesnt age, but neither does "video games" as a concept or "guns". but you can absolutely critique specific recipes or methods of making it throughout time, and see that one is better than another, the same way you can critique specific guns or specific games. in short, >We can acknowledge what you said, because it makes sense.good. that much should be obvious. but you know what nobody should really bother acknowledging (despite my probable mistake in trying to explain it out to you)? >But if i say "Vanilla Ice cream doesn't age", then you would not acknowledge this argument, but obsess with objecting to us.because thats a retarded and irrelevant statement. what fool would agree with it like a good and valid point? your shit does not make sense. take your adderall and lock in.
>>12220884OoT as a concept does not change."a musket" as a concept does not change."the ford model T" as a concept does not change.Like stfu if you cannot realize, that your activity is not an honest intent at investigating the truth, but rather our impulse to want to object and to spread the idea, that we have learned something in our lives and can enrich other people's views.When i reach out my hand by accepting your views as relatable and you slap it away by saying "this argument does not apply this way", then stop pretending to be the one reaching out your hand to me.Your understanding is inferior, not superior, so i have no benefit from adapting to it.My point is not to take a snippet of your word and falsify it, but rather to ensure, that by saying it this way you would realize, that "if this snippet is wrong, then whatever comes after is just this impulse to object and make clear, that i have an understanding of my own, that has its own power level, so i don't have to listen to the vanilla ice cream guy"
i like oot because of the spiritual harmony expressed by the thematic elements of the dungeons and their sequence. very esoteric, masonic game control-demolished in the sequel
>>12221254the second one is virtually beating the player over the head with it its quite funny
>>12221164as a concept, no they dont change. but the concept of their quality DOES change as the context of their existence changes over TIME. as such, they age. also, seriously, go get tested for autism.
>>12206846unfathomably based
>>12206886Idk why you bother responding to each point individually when everything you say boils down to you just hand waving away the problems. It's laughable that you do this to like 20 different problems the game has. Yeah if you just act like there's not 20 problems with the game, then it's rather perfect. But you're just disingenuous.
>>12207178Your issue is you have to make special pleading for the sake of the game. No, it's bad in all the ways that have been mentioned, but we will ignore all of that!
>>12214750>The only game that actually overdoes "backtracking" is TTYDplay more games, there's more games that fuck it up
>>12215806I thought Banjo-Tooie was way better.
>>12216371My suspicion is that an entire pillar of their personality hinges on the game remaining relevant and flawless in memory.
>>12216867Metroid is the franchise that Nintendo really needs to bring into the fold. It's probably been more influential than Zelda has and yet it's never been popular.
>>12206846I did not read any of that
>>12218248Anon, the game ran at 320 x 240p
>>12220013>>12220680cope
>>12221883>It's probably been more influential than Zelda has and yet it's never been popular.There's no way that that's the case. There are tons of 'metroidvania' games, but:a) None of them are actually anything like Super Metroid in design. They act like this was a big influential thing, but almost nothing is designed around highly physical mechanics that work together in the way they do in SM.b) Both Metroid and SotN style Castlevania explicitly take after Zelda's design, the devs have said this in both cases.Metroidvania is a term that's caught on, but a lot of these games are copying each other and not trying to actually be like Metroid specifically, even if Metroid's existence affected the popularity of side-scrolling game with this kind of backtracking based structure.
>>12206846It's an occult device.Nintendo is a very old company, with origins in divination and tarot.The Yamauchi family have claimed they don't know what the origins of the word, "nintendo" are. If you believe that you'll believe anything.
>>12222134There's a lot that take after Metroid. No you don't need spoonfed, you just need to get smart.
>>12219305>the effort and dedication that this would entailMaybe five years ago. I don't know; I wasn't a programmer five years ago. Today, this is literally child's play.
>>12222953>Today, this is literally child's play.Please tell me what you've done that would make you say that. I have very little sense of your experience or what your ultimate aims are.
>>12223018>Please tell me what you've done that would make you say that.I know how to use modern tools.
>>12221706Disagreement is not autism.If you specify "concept of quality" and "context of existence" it becomes apparant to be subjective.e.g. a concept can be viewed as blueprint in physical reality or as the idea in a person's headin both cases if you apply the term "aging" to it you do not mean physical or biological aging but aging in context of available products. And if you do not give a fuck about fasion trends, which i never did because why the fuck would i, then there is no reason for your subjective preference to move in accordance with time, with the only restriction being being exposed to the limited items of your time more than to historical ones. Which also affects your taste.>>12221841I am not hand waving away the problems, i am saying, that several of these "problems" are not viewed to be problematic by normal fans of the game, of course to varying degree, but this variation we do not hide under the name of objective measurement, and whoever does essentially will set himself up to have to defend a statement, that cannot be defended, beceause it does not represent an objective reality.
>>12223072I also meant to say after clarifying the meaning of "aging", that aging in this sense already implies subjective view.>>12211192I also wanted to clarify: TP is a beautiful game in many ways.First of all the way that OP said it, also affirmed by some people suggesting zoomer take, made it seem like he is solely mentioning TP to support the statement of antiquity.I bought the official walkthrough and physical game they were both beautiful. When you start TP the beginning area resembles more a RL take. This frightens a zelda fan making you worry "dafuq did i buy ?" until you see link in green tunic.My core statement is, that if you had a healthy sane mind, seeing the disproportionate NPCs and those weird shit link is wearing, something in-between pants and shorts, you wouldn't even place it in the category of zelda game. Of course this shifts as you progress, but if you compare this to the classical defining look of "zelda" this is somewhat of a warning sign, that should worry somebody, who wants to play ZELDA and not some fucking thing solely for being modernized. You get it ?And of course there are many beautiful things about TP, but any modern trash deviating from the main successful part of a "franchise" is canonically a thing on the side and not the main thing, which already implies what kinda turds are entering the genre: people leeching of the established success, with no interest in the actual game, that defined "zelda". This applies to all things, spongebob, dragonball, pokemon.The entire statement is: You're the retard, and not us.
>>12223072>Disagreement is not autism.correct. thats not why i said it. its how you talk, how you write, the bizarre mental gymnastics your words illustrate, and the ridiculous notions that you think are contributing points. overall, its mostly the "how", but it is VERY evident. you should definitely get checked. and again, its not a matter of taste, its about quality.
>>12206846Fag.
>>12223161>its about quality.Which is clearly subjective if there exist people, who prefer 8-bit games over newer games.>how you talk, how you write, the bizarre mental gymnastics your words illustrate, and the ridiculous notions that you think are contributing pointsIn a world, where the only accepted condition is to unconditionally accept what the other person thinks, anybody would over time lose their ability to normally communicate.*Also i'm not white, i got confused with multiple posts in my mind. You can say "the friendly christians, the friends among us normal people, who grew up with religious influence to have a basic moral compass", trying t say, that there are many good intentions made by white people, like saving other people from war, and that racists paint it to be about superiority
>>12223253>Which is clearly subjective if there exist people, who prefer 8-bit games over newer games.Not really. It's not hard to define perfectly reasonable objective measures of quality where an old game would score higher than a new game.The question is whether people in a different time and place are using a different criteria for objective assessment (of quality). If so, what are those different criteria? Could there be a way to reconcile the differences and come to a mutual understanding?
>>12223289Without taking into account your current post for now because i realized something:You're right btw, and i apologize.A runner who i am currently watching just transitioned from OoT to MM and he said, that this game runs alot more fluent.This was unexpected because his friends said MM is more annoying than OoT and he is using the switch version, which i presume is closer to the original N64.The key points here are:-Switch players respect intellectual property, which should be considered commendable and not like an intentional handicap, which i accused people of-People, who grew up under the influence of data piracy, just utilize existing technology way betterI do remember trying the game on P64 and realizing this doesn't run as smooth, but i don't remember the details, because in my mind "60fps should technically just work"With the comparison of MM and OoT i can now see your point about objective quality.The reason why i feel personally attacked is because, when you suggest antiquated view you also suggest, that i must prefer something, that is newer, but doesn't necessarily look better per personal evaluation despite having higher resolution etc.This you also correctly associate with autism, if your interpretation of autism is to "not be able to see things others may be saying", for example i mean.You are correct in this regard.Do i do this enough justice ?I think others can chime in on the specification of OoT as played on specific hardware and settings and how they view things etc.In terms of professional rating i acknowledge this to be acceptable, however i should note that the points about subjective perception should be taken into account as a "hardcore fanbase" to be respected and not dismissed as "zelda zealots" or "emotional veil covering judgement".This i mean as additional note on now apologizing and saying "i can see your point now."This required knowledge i didn't have before, not just "not-autism".
>>12223289And yes this post would just result in mental gymnastics, because without seeing your point we would still be at square one."Sorry for the trouble" wouldn't give it enough justice because i provided one heck of a lot of information about how the game runs on different environments.Those are my contributions keep that in mind.
And to also add to the remarks about the game itself, like targeting, backtracking(with this btw he means things like getting stuck at darunia not knowing having to go to lost woods im sure), etc.Yes, from professional evaluation this is rightfully pointed out.I just take my own experience for granted and also interpret the idea of looking something up to not be directly involved with the game rating, which of course isn't right from perspective of just wanting to rate a game fairly.In this sense yes antiquity is a valid accusation in terms of those specific oversights.I'm sorry about my differing view.I think we were all too obsessed with the idea of game journalists calling us nostalgic brats while also being fully aware of the empty husk, that new games sometimes feel like.
>>12206846I recently replayed this with a randomizer in coop mode with a friend and it was the best fucking time. This game is still loved and rightly so, it holds up incredibly well.
>>12220847Sure, bro. The dude who thinks black powder muskets and old cars aren't "crap" is a "willfully ignorant contrarian". Get real, ya fag.
>>12220602Last time I went to a retro vid game store the kid behind the counter told me, "Excellent choice. The best Zelda." when I asked to see their copy of Crystalis.
>>12220738What a gay response.
>>12220851Then you must not be speaking the truth if you have to force your delusions onto everyone.
>>12223072>several of these "problems" are not viewed to be problematicThat's hand waving, anon.
>>12221706>the concept of their quality DOES change as the context of their existence changes over TIMENo it doesn't. That's ridiculous. A black powder musket still possesses the same qualities. They are still the same thing as they were hundreds of years ago. Modern firearms don't change this. Context can't change quality either. The only thing that can change its quality are things related to engineering, materials, skill in build and quality control. Regardless, the degree to which a musket can vary is greatly limited without becoming something else entirely. What you're trying to say is "my opinion of a thing's quality changes based on my taste at the time and my understanding of the context of the thing". It's like if you cast pearls before swine. Pigs aren't gonna care about that shit because it's not the slop they want and they'll get mad at you for it.
>>12221883Then buy more Metroid. Sales dictate all of these decisions.
>>12223018Fuck off.
>>12223481>hand waving is badBetter make a big deal about everything instead. That will surely work out in your favor.
>>12223421>This game is still loved and rightly so, it holds up incredibly well.Indeed.
>>12223289>It's not hard to define perfectly reasonable objective measures of quality where an old game would score higher than a new game.And vice versa. There are pros and cons to everything. Nearly every new game is bogged down by bloated, unoptimized code and load times are a real issue. Not to mention input lag. I would rather play a game running at 20 FPS with 60 FPS on inputs, zero input lag and snappy load times than a game running at 60+ fps with input lag and long load times. The brain just fills in the gaps in frames and it looks more like a comic than a live action scene.
>>12223481>>several of these "problems" are not viewed to be problematic>That's hand waving, anon.That's like saying, that normal people hand wave away that "nuts are bad" because they don't have an allergy,"anon".I just described to you, that what you perceive as problematic is fine for others, to varying degree.
>>12223253>quality is subjective, because people like thissubjectivity is subjectivity. quality is not the same thing. the concept of whether something appeals to people or not is a small facet of a thing's quality. there are far more objective things the grade quality on. we've been over this. unfuck your autistic brain and recognize that it is NOT a matter of subjectivity. the question is not "how much do you like this game" or "what is your favorite game". stop trying to misconstrue it to be a topic of subjectivity. it is an entirely different track. if people want to input their opinions, fine, go for it, cute, but they dont magically undo objective facts.
>>12223487oh really? its still an amazing weapon? the pinnacle of infantry firepower? then why arent they still used today?oh right, its because they have become objectively outclassed. their quality sits lower on the scale, not the pinnacle like it used to. >Context can't change quality either. thats literally how it works. you're retarded>The only thing that can change its quality are things related to engineering, materials, skill in buildyour definition of "quality" and your understanding of the topic is hilariously awful. whats even funnier is that even following your misguided understanding, you're STILL wrong about oot. engineering? materials? skill in build? yeah, all things that got improved upon by later games. you'll try and counter "but they arent oot. its a different thing" in a pathetic attempt at pedantic individuality, but gloss over the fact that they are both GAMES. the same way engineering, materials, and skill in build all improved for GUNS. so in way, you're right, those things do change quality, but its the context that ranks them. at the time it might have been the best to be found, or at least the best experienced, but since then, the context has changed and what is considered "high quality" has changed. as such, they have aged. you're wrong and fully retarded. grow up.
>>12206846>be American millennial>live in cozy upper-middle class area>soccer mom buys you a Nintendo 64 because The 700 Club told her that PlayStation games have blood>parents can also afford you to buy the entire Rareware library>since you are rich and American, your family are also early adopters of the internet>lo and behold, everyone else online is also a rich American from a Nintendo 64 household>Ocarina group masturbation session ensues>The internet universally agrees that ReDeads are the scariest things ever invented because none of you ever played Silent Hill>Internet gaming culture is built upon the idea that everyone owned a Nintendo 64 and everyone agrees Ocarina of Time is unambiguously the best game ever made>Fast forward 20 years>Euros, Aussies, and working class Americans are now online>You find out that the Nintendo 64 absolutely fucking bombed outside of middle America and nobody gives a fuck about Ocarina of Time>Even in the US the N64 was massively outsold by the PS1, let alone abroad>Persecution complex ensues>"This can't be........did.....did I shit my pants over Wind Waker's graphics for nothing?">Start calling Ocarina underrated due to the fact that people who've played more than 1 fucking game don't think it's the best
>>12224870Nailed it, though there's some kind of bonus schizo energy in this particular thread.
>>12212786in a game where Z button solves everything this is just hilarious to read. a 10 year old can do that.
>>12224870this is hyper aware and factual. 100/100 read
>>12206846
>>12226173REPUTATION: REVOKEDnintendo literally got sued over this webm btw
No other game plays like OoT though. There's literally no counter argument. Contemporary 3d action adventure games do not control nearly as well. There's a reason every 6th generation and beyond game in the same genre just controls like OoT. I don't get the debate. And until you can adequately refute me you just don't have a leg to stand on. Tomb raider? It plays nothing like OoT. It feels so much less precise and is clunky and slow with its animation priority.The big killer is that many games around this time >are very slow>don't let you move in a direction the camera isn't facing >don't let you quickly change direction and move in a direction the character isn't currently facing >don't allow for minute micro adjustments in footing that feels quick and natural>character is locked in place during combat and doesn't automatically track enemies at all
as a kid i was obsessed with the official strategy guide and the art. it's just an amazing aesthetic and world, i never really got into any other zelda game
>>12226189The debate happens because not everyone agrees that action-adventure is the ultimate genre, and mechanics aside, many found the content in OoT disappointing.
everything you just said is invalidated by a simple fact: it's fun to play
>>12226214The only truly, regrettably disappointing aspect of OoT is that the enemies are like >>12226173 and all die to basic tactics without seriously threatening you.>>12226189You are otherwise right in basically every way. The core mechanics, despite difficulty issues, still feel better designed than both its contemporaries and close to everything that came after. It likewise has a super well put together world that draws you into it in a way that close to nothing else does, as >>12226196 says. The combination of these aspects, plus the incredible "item utility", where each item you get in the game can offer not only unique mechanics, but potentially unique interactions with everything else in the world, with the whole game being structured around this, results in something where, maybe it's not your personal favorite, but I don't understand how anyone could reasonably object to someone saying it is theirs.
>>12226556No, there are plenty of other legitimate things to gripe about. And nobody cares if you like Ocarina it's always the other way around where people can't fathom someone else not liking the gameplay no matter how it's explained.
>>12224489>then why arent they still used today?Kek. Showing even more of your ignorance, I see. They're still obviously used today. The fact you think they aren't is pretty stupid. Black powder firearms get an early hunting season. Plenty of reenactments use them. People who for some reason can't own or access a modern firearm can buy them online and use them for self defense. A slug coming out of a black powder rifle is still gonna kill ya dead just as well. Probably better than most modern rifle rounds, too, just because it's gonna put a big ass hole in you, via the big ass slug. More importantly, though, they're still used today because they are fun to shoot. >>12224489>its the context that ranks them. at the time it might have been the best to be found, or at least the best experienced, but since then, the context has changed and what is considered "high quality" has changedStop chasing the FotM slop. >cathedrals are no longer "high quality" because modern engineering existsWhat are you even doing on /vr/ if you can't appreciate good shit? Just come here to troll the board? Must be. All you can do is screech insults at me and disagree without providing any sound reasoning. >my opinion of the understanding of the context of a thing can metaphysically change the quality of another thing so that it's no longer "good". It's the stupidest shit I've heard all day. If something is good 200 years ago, then it's still good today. The existence of something new doesn't change that. If what you were saying was true, then people wouldn't play old games, but they do, and many actually prefer old games to new games simply because of the many problems with new games (that old ganes don't have). What does it matter if a game is better than OoT at one tiny aspect, but fails at everything else that matters? Why don't you tell us what all these games that "better" than OoT are so we can laugh at your shit taste and short list.
>>12226259OP doesn't know what fun is.
>>12226582>jimmies this rustledNever change, fag. Never change.
>>12226583>still used as cheap noveltiesits ok, you admit that you're wrong and they are outclassed by higher quality things. >Stop chasing the FotM slop. cute deflection, but not what we're talking about. >cathedralsthey dont make cathedrals like that anymore because they are expensive, and the pragmatism of if you need a building, its just more efficient to make a normal one. also, i never brought up cathedrals, you did, because you're deliberately trying to avoid the point. you're refusing simple reason and facts. this sort of willful ignorance is exactly what im talking about, so thank you for displaying it for all to see. >What are you even doing on /vr/ if you can't appreciate good shit?i do appreciate good shit. there is a lot of praise to be had for old stuff, much of it older than oot, lol. oot is extremely primitive for its medium, and there really isnt much to praise about it. almost all of the praise for it needs to be followed up with "at the time", because objectively, it really isnt that good, and it was only "good" when there was nothing else to compare it to. you can build a bridge out of popsicle sticks and chewing gum, and its the best bridge around. but then when somebody brings concrete, steel, and actual engineering, suddenly the first bridge isnt so good anymore. you're just too stupid to recognize that. you REFUSE to recognize that. no, gum bridge is still amazing and a true marvel!>If what you were saying was true, then people wouldn't play old gamesgames arent bridges. they're activities. they can still function just the same as they always have, and some people might still find enjoyment from them. "finding enjoyment" or "liking something" is not the end-all-be-all of quality. you can like shitty things. you can like stupid things. christ, just look at all of the things with basically zero redeeming qualities that people go NUTS for, skibidi toilet, funko pops, labubu, 67, "the room", etc. (1/2)
>>12226583>>12226936(cont 2/3)now im not saying that ALL games made after oot are better, or even all games made in the last 10 years. but the vast majority (if you shave off the pure slop that clutters up stuff like steam's "new release" page. im talking ACTUAL games) are in fact better games. >What does it matter if a game is better than OoT at one tiny aspect, but fails at everything else that matters?it isnt hard to utterly mog it in the majority of metrics. also, very importantly, oot being the best is a ridiculous assumption, and action/adventure games are not automatically the best genre of game, and certainly not because of oot. structuring your frame of reference like it is, denying all other genres as "not doing X aspect better" is pathetically prejudiced. >Why don't you tell us what all these games that "better" than OoT are so we can laugh at your shit taste and short list.for a variety of reasons really. 1) the lack of quality in oot should be self evident to anyone with basic reasoning skills. if you cant see that at a glance, then you've already made up your mind and it isnt worth changing the subject to nitpick some other game.2) your intent is literally just nitpick any flaw the game has or any aspect of it you dont like, or how it doesnt have some aspect that oot has (like sword fighting for example). 3) that would be a complete deflection and change of subject. you intent is hand wave and forget all of oot's flaws, while focusing on those of some other game. first and foremost, your intent is "well that game obviously cant be considered best ever, so oot still wins"4) you will continuously come back to "oot is the full package". even if it is obvious that it is mogged in every category (which you will still handwave and ignore/deny), you will still insist on it being the best, because of it simply existing. as such, there is no point in bringing up specific games if you're too stupid to recognize oot's primitive deficiencies. (cont)
>>12226583>>12226936>>12226956(cont 3/3)you cant even understand the simple concept of context and quality change. you arent speaking from a position of understanding, let alone good faith. you're willfully ignorant, and again, thank you for proving my point on what a zealot truly is. you're as retarded as archivefag, if you're not actually him. >short listits literally hundreds of games over the past 25 years. longer if you count better games that were made before it. but im sure you cant comprehend that.
>>12226583>people wouldnt play games if they were badmeanwhile >>>12222305also your argument (that if things were of low quality, then people wouldnt play them) is retarded, because if oot was "the best" and newer games are "worse", then nobody would play newer games. and yet they do. your assumption is wrong. so before you go claiming that there is "no sound reasoning" being provided to you (theres tons of it, you're just too stupid to grasp it), maybe try to come up with sound reasoning yourself. oh wait, you wont, because sound reasoning automatically leads to facts, like oot aging like milk.
>>12226936Don't be disgenuous. Starting your hunting season early (and filling your freezer) and using a weapon for self defense isn't cheap novelty territory. I'm not deflecting. That is your argument in a nutshell. Old bad. New good. We don't make cathedrals anymore because we can't. We do not possess the skill required to do it. If we did, then we would because they are magnificent. Too much finger pointing and too many insults coming out of you. Learn how to discuss something without getting your jimmies so rustled. When I say that you don't provide any sound reasoning it means when you say something like, "oot is extremely primitive for its medium" or "there isn't really much to praise about it" you dont follow that up with any examples or evidence. I've already said it, there are pros and cons to everything. One is not inherently better than the other in the vacuum of your imagination unless you are building for a very specific set of requirements, which you have not provided in the first place. Most of your posts are just telling me I'm stupid with a splash of unbased claims here and a splash of conjecture there. It's just your opinion, dude. At no point have you presented any reasonable evidence that OoT is bad, not "good". I guarantee you will completely ignore every reasonable point I've made in this post and write up a ridiculously long retort that contains nothing but insults, opinions and conjecture just like you've done already. There is literally no reason to engage with you. Even though countless people love OoT and hold it in high esteem, you're still gonna think they're the ones that are somehow mentally deranged for liking the thing you don't like. You are gonna keep on warping anything that is presented to show why OoT is good or you will claim mental illness on the part of the presenter. And I'm supposed to believe you have some sort of legitimate claim here? Stop. Don't be silly.
>>12206846The game wasn't made for the players, it was made for the devs. You only need to put it next to the NES games to see how much they took away only to replace it with nonsense instead.
You all really should die, you know.
>>12227915>isn't cheap novelty territorylmao yes it is. >I'm not deflectingyou constantly are>That is your argument in a nutshell. Old bad. New good.its really not. im consistently saying that games older than oot are better than it, and i am clarifying that i am NOT being so reductive as to say that "all newer games are better". you trying to claim that im saying the opposite is what is truly disingenous, lmao.>We don't make cathedrals anymore because we can't.lmao, incorrect. the #1 thing preventing it is cost efficiency. dont take sensationalist articles to heart. >Too much finger pointing and too many insults coming out of you. cry about it, bitch boy. maybe be somebody worthy of respect and you would get, instead of a retarded zealot saying constantly wrong things. >you dont follow that up with any examples or evidence. thank you for once again admitting that you are too retarded to recognize simple facts at a glance. the easiest place to start is that oot is very early in the 3d medium. the graphics and structural design of the environment are extremely simple and basic (not to mention empty). puzzle and objective design are extremely simple. a SIGNIFICANT portion of the game is emphasizing 3d itself as the gimmick (simply looking up for solutions for example). plenty of later games are far more robust in what they create in the 3d medium.>Most of your posts are just telling me I'm stupidbecause all you do is say retarded things and illustrate that you dont understand simple concepts like quality and context. >At no point have you presented any reasonable evidence that OoT is bad, not "good".oh no, i didnt repeat myself just for our comment chain! grow up first.>I guarantee you will completely ignore every reasonable point I've made in this postyou've made one? where? all you're doing is doubling down on willful ignorance.(cont 1/2)
>>12227915>>12228071(2/2)>you're still gonna think they're the ones that are somehow mentally deranged for liking the thing you don't likesee? that right there? you STILL cant even grasp the very simple concept of what im saying. how many times do i have to reiterate that its not about liking something? you're allowed to like it. you're allowed to play it. you're allowed to find it fun. just be honest about its quality. thats it. saying "its my favorite game" i take ZERO issue with. saying "its the greatest game of all time, 10/10 flawless masterpiece" is just so objectively incorrect. thats it. why is it so hard for you retards to understand? oh thats right, because you're an ignorant zealot who feels personally offended when your favorite game gets criticized. you'll even hard deny the concept of again quality in order to desperately preserve its status that you've erected for it in your mind.thanks for proving me right and illustrating the exact kind of retarded zealot that i've been talking about though. good job.
retard fatigue
>>12228036Everyone dies eventually.
Was playing Ocarina in original hardware but had to stop to share how frustrating it is to pause, equip unequip iron boots. Was really enjoying the game until Water Temple. didn't mind about all OP's complaints.
>>12228690>didn't mind about all OP's complaintsYou'll feel them more and more on replays.
It's not the best game ever, it's good. The opinions of strangers don't mean anything to me. If it's the best thing or overrated or whatever I don't really care. You guys should really stay inside your own heads more or at least understand that you don't have to earnestly answer every persons opinions about everything.
>>12228129record scratch.. yep.. i bet you're wondering how that's me.. well it all started from 2016..
