I just finished this game (with the Restored patch and 2x boss HP setting), but I wanna know a bit more about the actual original version.Why was it so full of bugs that it practically made certain jobs so shit compared to another? What benefit was the Thief/Ninja supposed to even serve?
It was made by seven people.The first six couldn't program for shit so they hired a seventh (Nasir) on visa. Conveniently, he didn't speak any japanese.One of them was just a pixel artist. Another was Amano who just, idk, did "concept art."They were flying by the seats of their pants.
>>12585823sasuga, near-bankrupt company
>>12585812As >>12585823 said - seven people with limited skillset and budget working on rather novel at that time game.The fact that it got released and is actually playable from start to finish is pretty insane.
>>12585812>Why was it so full of bugs that it practically made certain jobs so shit compared to another? There is nothing exceptional about FF1's bugs. It had just as many bugs as any other RPGs made at the time, every 8/16bit RPGs have a lot of bugs and a lot of 5th gen ones too. The only difference between FF1 and the others is that due to the series popularity people dissect it more and talk about it more. This also applies to the bugs in gen1 Pokémon.Just on top of my head I could list you a tons of bugs for many other major RPGs, but I'll just say that the ones in FF1 aren't that critical on the point of view of a dev/publisher because they're not the sort of bugs that could prevent certification had they been caught during that phase. Dragon Quest games on the other hand did, which is why most of them were fixed for the western Warrior release; although there is one critical bug that slipped through for Dragon Warrior 3 which is creating too many party members which can break many things about the game.As for the FF series, later entries have much more critical bugs as well, like the one in FF6 which can erase your save, or the item duplication in FF7. These are much more harmful and game breaking than anything in FF1 or 2.As for the restoration patch, if that's the thing that makes magic scale with Int, then you should know that if the Int stat did anything it most likely would NOT have done that. Magic scale just was NOT a standard at the time, Wizardry didn't do it, Dragon Quest didn't do it, I can't think of many that did in fact.
>I just finished this game (with the Restored patch and 2x boss HP setting)didn't beat the game
The fact that the thief doesn't steal was by design and not a bug, which I find the most iffy thing about the game's classes. The bugs aren't as bad as they make them out to be. Say, some spells don't work, but in a lot of jrpgs half the spells are useless even if they work.
>>12585812>with the Restored patch and 2x boss HP settingYou didn’t finish the game.
>>12585840In FF1 a lot of the "bugs" were that normal things just didn't work, at all. Like several of the magic spells.
>>12585845>The fact that the thief doesn't stealIt's Wizardry logic. The issue is in Wizardry Thieves have other advantages like disarming traps on chests which does not apply in Final Fantasy so the class comes off a little short. He should have had another advantage of some sort.
>>12585852Yes but some of these things that don't work aren't that big of a deal either, such as weapons that are supposed to have damage bonuses against certain types of enemies but the dmg bonus doesn't work. In the grand scheme of things it's quite inconsequential, you probably wouldn't have used most of these weapons anyway because there is usually another weapon with higher damage output available at the same time; but if you put this in the list of bugs, it sounds like "everything's broke"
i figured a bunch of stuff not working is why the default party was an all melee team
>>12585859>Yes but some of these things that don't work aren't that big of a dealI totally agree. Just was making conversation. I will point out the flaws in my favorite games, minor or major.
I finished FF1 as a kid. I never had any idea that anything was broken. Of course it took me a long time to realize that the black belt did more damage with no weapon equipped so observation was apparently not my thing.
>>12585812>Why was it so full of bugs that it practically made certain jobs so shit compared to another?Why do you pretend this is true? The class balance is bad even after all bugs are fixed. Is there something wrong with your brain?>>12585876It's probably not. You can pretty easily finish the game with four white mages. It's not a difficult game. And if they had thought the pure mages were too weak then they could have fixed it, bugs or no bugs, very easily. All they would have had to do is increase the raw damage values on attack spells, or the numbers of spell charges you get per spell level, or some other basic, non-buggy stats like those.
>>12585812>What benefit was the Thief/Ninja supposed to even serve?He looks cool. He has blue hair. He fights well and can eventually learn FAST, the strongest offensive spell in the game. Why do you want more than that? He isn't broken or useless; he's just somewhat weaker than the fighter. Yes it's not especially good design, and yes it'd be nice if every character were about as useful as every other, but you don't NEED that in a simple RPG like this one.Do you really think kids in the 80s were crying about how their melee attackers weren't exactly as useful as one another? This is a simple fantasy adventure that lets you XP-grind your way past almost any obstacle. It's not made to satisfy an adult who's looking for a finely balanced puzzle in which all the pieces fit together oh so elegantly. It's made for kids who genuinely care that one of their guys has cool-looking blue hair.
>>12586127It's not you. The bugs are really hard to notice if you aren't going out of your way to rigorously search for details of certain aspects of the game. Like, if some broken spell is supposed to slightly decrease an enemy's ability to dodge, then even if it does work correctly, how will you know? You need to use it a bunch of times and track statistics of your hit rate. Nobody's gonna do that during normal play. Normal players would either skip the spell altogether because it sounds boring; or use it a few times, assume it's working even though it isn't, and come away satisfied; or use it a few times, assume it's working and that it simply sucks, and stop using it forever. At no point would they notice the bug.
>>12586374Thief/Ninja also have the benefit of not costing money to maintain. Although you can find a lot of gear for the fighter, if you have too many it becomes problematic
>>12585812It was the programmer Nasir's first RPG and there was a language barrier to the point they often had to gesture or go off general "vibes" to communicate.
>>12585812>with the Restored patch and 2x boss HP settingDidn't beat the game
>>12585841>>12585846>>12586450horrific samefag
>>12586452No
>didn't play a verified, clean, untouched dump of the oldest known retail release of the game from its region of originDidn't beat the game.
>If you:>Used any mage besides red>Have a fighter in your team>Upgraded your class >Used exit or warp spells>Used magic items>Used the peninsula>Used the in game map>Used status nullifying gear>Used healing spells outside of battle>Avoided encounter tiles intentionally >Used potions, soft, or antidote>Ran from battle>Used masamuneYou didn't beat the game.
>>12585812The is definitely a terrible job, but it's working as intended, at least mostly. His only advantage is that he has higher luck, which makes you have an easier time running from battle. He just sucks.
>>12589102*The thief
>>12585859>Yes but some of these things that don't work aren't that big of a deal eitherI agree it doesn't ruin the game or anything, but it is lame to buy a spell like TMPR or SABR and have them do nothing.
>>12585841>>12585846>>12586450good, i played enough of the base game to realise how shit it is. dawn of souls 4 lyfe
>>12585812>I just finished this game (with the Restored patch and 2x boss HP settingyou didnt really finish the game
>>12585812>Why was it so full of bugsnasir is a fucking fraud and every game he was involved in was the buggiest game ever made. secret of mana is borderline unplayable.
>>12585840Final Fantasy 4 has a bug that randomly deletes save files, and their "fix" to that was to add a guy in the Easytype and burger versions that tells you to save in multiple slots just in case.
>>12585845>>12585857Thieves having the ability to steal from random encounters just wasn't really a thing back then. This is just latecomers applying modern ideas to old games. The classic crpg thief's thing was lockpicking and disarming traps.
>>12589573>nasir is a fucking fraudHe also offered bad ingots and treated the messanger of Nanni with contempt.
>>12589671>Thieves having the ability to steal from random encounters just wasn't really a thing back then. >The classic crpg thief's thing was lockpicking and disarming traps.Thieves could pick pockets even in 1975, when they were introduced with Greyhawk. But I guess it was more limited, you couldn't steal random crap from wolves.
>>12589654This happened to me and I thought my little brother actually deleted my save so I punched him and he cried and I got in trouble. Later I tried to delete his save but couldn't find a way to do it. I thought he had a way to do it for years
>>12585812They lacked debugging tools to see RAM states to even properly test things to know they werent working.
>>12585857Thieves were supposed to have an elevated success rate for fleeing, but due to coding oversite, the bonus was applied to all classes.
>>12586391It is hard to notice that spells like blind have the opposite of the intended effect, blinding the caster instead of the monster, or that temper does nothing. Still these things being broken change the game. Replaying it with temper working, and stacking it with fast is a complete game changer. People itt say that it doesnt matter that the enemy type specific swords not working doesnt matter, but when I replayed it with that fixed, I was equipping the sea sword everytime I got on the boat, because in the early-mid game it did make a huge difference.Also, as someone who went over the ASM in this games deeply for a romhack, its not that these things were just alluded to in text but never coded, they were coded. They just addressed the wrong ram values in most cases. Fully developed features were broken because they altered the wrong byte.Although there is one example of something that was never coded: intelligence as a stat did literally nothing. Again, yes they are hard to notice if you dont know what you are looking for, but fixing them does noticeably change the game.
>>12589671>Thieves having the ability to steal from random encounters just wasn't really a thing back then.I know it wasn't, I thought it was implied in my the post you're answering to as it should be pretty obvious...
>>12589654Funny how the reality check is that bugs got WORSE for the series after Nasir left
>>12585812>Why so buggy? I suspect it's because Nasir (Squaresoft Iranian programming guru that retired on Secret of Mana royalties in the 90s) lied his way into the job and throughout the entire project. But I could be wrong.
>>12589889Didn't they depend on him to the point that when his visa expired, they chose to move in with him to finish one of the games (FF2 or FF3, can't recall which)?
>>12589897Yes, California, mid way through FF2. He was also the face of Final Fantasy until he left and Sakaguchi took the role, they used him in marketing and it was his name on the title screens
Before the Sakaguchi / Nasir duo, Square's games were average at best (although I do have a soft spot for Cleopatra no Mahou, but if you compare that RPG to FF1 it's like night and day) and the sales were abysmal. Then the Nasir / Sakaguchi duo happened and they made 3D World Runner, Rad Racer and Final Fantasy. All 3 broke a 1 million sales worldwide or close to it in the case of FF1 and got sequels, it wouldn't have happened without either of these two.When Nasir joined Square allegedly all the devs there knew his name and his apple 2 games despite them never releasing in Japan
>>12589023>If you played the game as intended you did not beat the game Ok retard.
>>12589201I just wish all the difficulty wasn't exclusive to the bonus dungeons in those versions.
>>12589746you're a bad older brother
>>12590207Youre clearly a little brother. Thats normal childhood experience right there. Go tattle to mom.
FF1 was not only completely playable on US release it was viewed as a phenomenal and brilliant gamesThebugsdidnothinderitonebit.Every opinion on them today is overblown crap hyped to hysteria by the youtube angry screaming queer generation. You do not need to fix any of the bugs to enjoy the game. But if you play any version but the NES you ARE a fuckhead.
>>12589573You're literally fucking retarded and deserve execution.***Nasir didn't write the combat engine***He wasn't the one who made the bugs.
>>12592332>You do not need to fix any of the bugs to enjoy the gameMillennials were happy to gobble up any buggy slop their mom bought. Get some fucking standards, goyim.
>>12592340Ah it's a resentful retard that's physically impossible to experience fun with a video game.
>>12592332>The>bugs>did>not>hinder>it>one>bit.Look, I totally agree with you that the bugs weren't a big deal and don't ruin the game by any means. Same goes for gen 1 Pokemon. But fixing the bugs in Final Fantasy only makes the game better, so they did ever so slightly hinder the game. There's no downside to fixing bugs like Focus Energy not working in Pokemon or TMPR not working in Final Fantasy. You can argue about fun glitches or things like elemental equipment not working properly actually making the game better, but fixing moves that don't do anything at all only makes the game better.Thankfully you can patch it yourself nowadays if you want.
>>12592335>***Nasir didn't write the combat engine***>He wasn't the one who made the bugs.Where can you read about who coded what specifically? Nasir is always talked about as the coder of the old Final Fantasies, so it would be interesting to learn if someone else were responsible for the bugs.
