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How much choice should you have in an RPG?
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>>3647712
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>>3647712
>You should kill yourself RIGHT NOW
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>>3647712
If they let you actually berate the character for being non-binary and the character would leave your party you would probably cry about that too so they simply just didnt make that an option.
>Let me bully them into being cis
No.
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>>3647735
>Let me bully them into being cis
This is the way.
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>>3647735
I think that you should kill yourself.
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>>3647735

But is coming out stunning and brave if negative consequences are not a possible outcome?
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>>3647740
Go fuck yourself.
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>>3647738
Dont cut yourself on all that edge, kid.
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>>3647742
I'm not joking, I'm not being an edgelord. I think the world will greatly benefit from your death. I think that you should do it.
>>
>Randomly brings up black mens penises
Ask me how i know you're American.
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>>3647712
90s solutions for 21st century problems
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>>3647747
>I think the world will greatly benefit from your death
Damn, what a compliment. He's that powerful, huh?
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>>3647741

It´s a legit question though. If there is no possible bad outcome then there is nothing to fear and if there is nothing to fear there is no point in making a big deal out of it. Or i am wrong in assuming facing that fear to rejection is the reason people hesitate to come out?
>>
>>3647771
it's cargo cult narratives, racism and homophobia and chauvinism used to be really common in popular culture and some writers used these topics as a crutch to give their narratives weight. now, that times have changed, bad writers are attempting to find ways to also use those crutches they were raised on. this causes cultural stagnation and cognitive dissonance.
>>
>>3647712
thank you Moloch
how much does this "game" cost anyway kek?
>>
>>3647796
Standard Edition - $69.99 ($59.99 on Steam)
Deluxe Edition - $89.99 ($79.99 on Steam)
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>>3647712
BioWare should've provided a choice to detransition a troon and detransitioning should've been her good and best possible ending.
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>>3647826
This is a mod.
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>>3647712
I get the impression chuds just want a "dump /pol/ infochart" option. Ironically Disco is the only game that has this and they hate it.
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>>3647828
not just a mod, it's saerileth, one the worst mods ever made
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>>3647829
Speak for yourself, I love it. Measurehead and Gary are my heroes.
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>>3647828
PS:T has even more choices and consequences.
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>>3647835
pic unrelated
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Alpha Protocol is the only game to do the Mass Effect style dialogue right.
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>>3647839
Thorton having three distinct personalities and switching between them at will, because he's canonically a sociopath, really makes it work. As does the time limit on selecting the response.
>>
>>3647829
You kinda lost the plot, huh? All your ranting about /pol/ shit being off-topic and the game includes /pol/ shit done in a way that almost looks like parody.
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>>3647841
It's his job to be a sociopath, that's just a good work ethic. But it's also that consequences actually follow from your choices, they aren't mere flavour.
>>
>>3647834
Gary is "Racist Lorryman" right? what an interesting name
>>
>>3647735
You will never be a dragon.
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>>3647882
No, he's the cryptofascist.
>>
>>3647742
>Dont cut yourself on all that edge, kid.
Recognising that the world would be a better place if every tranny cut their own throat isn't edgy, it's simply the truth.
>>
>>3647845
you're making alpha protocol sound extremely exciting to me just from that description
is it worth pirating it to get a feel of the game?
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>>3647843
Sounds like you are very confused.
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>>3647950
Yes. Spec into melee, pistols and stealth so that you can ignore the shitty combat and just enjoy the kino plot.
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>>3647712
>playing EA shit
>playing Paradox shit
>playing pathfinder company shit
>playing Larian shit
>playing Bethesda shit
Just play games that aren't shit, ignore these flops and you'll have a better time all around
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>>3647950
Any copy you can find will do because the last official patch, which you can find online, disables the copy protection.
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>>3647712
>You're in control here
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>>3647956
That is definitely what those with souls should do.
Although 99% of people are soulless golems that do what they're told, and they're told to buy whatever their cult-leaders(streamers, influencers, etc.) tell them to.
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>>3647956
>Paradox
luv Europa luv Stellaris
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>>3647712
If I can't create an over sexualized loli or shota then the game is trash.
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>>3647712
It'd be nice if there was an "I don't care what you want." reply.
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>>3648200
>maybe try having some empathy for people in pain
maybe if you cut your dick off, you'd appreciate what taash goes through on a daily basis
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>>3647747
lmaooo and posts like this is why people smile when that 41% rate goes up
YWNBAW
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>>3647776
>it's cargo cult narratives
I'd compare it more to the monkeys and the banana because your comparison ignores that the people writing it now weren't the ones writing it before but they were still taught learned behavior by the people writing before.
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>>3647712
At some point you have to realize that BW is not making games to convert people, they're making games for people who already think the way they do. It's pandering for their side, it's like those tumblr comics that were everywhere back in the day and were only meant for other tumblr people who agree with everything they say to read. I don't even have to name one, you already know what I'm talking about.
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>>3647712
I'll just leave this here
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>>3647712
The choice to not play shit woke garbage.
>>
the option to troon out is probably the smallest issue of that garbage
what truly makes it unplayable is the constant 4th wall breaking preaching
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>>3648251
That's fine, you can do what you want to your body.
Still don't care though. You should respect my feelings, bigot.
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>>3647735
>berate the character for being non-binary and the character would leave your party
Good, that's the preferred outcome.
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>>3647712
this is just the tone choices as in DA2. deal with it.
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70,000 people playing and I found the main audience. Game must be really redpilled.
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>>3648486
lol not the least bit surprising
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>>3647712
HATE TRANSFOLK
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Dragon Age: Veilguard will win Game of the Year and sell six gorillion copies
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>>3648323
I do care about your feelings because I'm not inconsiderate of anyone's feelings
I'll also make sure kids (and hopefully one of them being yours) are as exposed to people like myself so they don't grow up with bigoted thoughts like yourself swirling in their heads
>do your worst
I'm gonna fuck your kids
stop me if you're even capable of leaving your basement
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>>3647712
Is this actually real?Why even have options at that point?
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>>3648491
Every person whining about this game and shitting up every space that will tolerate them is a weak and degenerate hypocrite.
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>>3648508
It's real, and it's not even out of the ordinary in Veilguard. Most of dialogue I've seen are various ways of saying the same thing.
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>>3648509
Smells like frog in here.
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>>3648512
nta but you shouldn't be able to whine about veilguard without posting your most recently played games
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>>3648486
>6/45 people
what point are you trying to make here?
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>>3648515
That's the first of 47 pages. There's a lot more.
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>>3648516
>270/2115
wow, you sure showed them
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>>3648521
>25% isn't that much!!
lol
lmao even
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>>3648513
Ys X sucks. It instantly makes you worse than the top surgery scars.
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>>3648513
Oh froggy...
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Send all /pol/fags and bioturds back to cuckdex where they belong
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>>3648522
>270 is 25% of 2115
roflcopter
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>>3648527
what's your account name over there?
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>>3648524
This is the kind of person who constantly says they have nothing to play.
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>>3648529
Not a fan of veilguard so no reason to use it.
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>>3648513
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>>3648532
have you tried playing an rpg
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>>3648531
you have more than one account there, don't you?
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>>3648534
I unironically have zero accounts.
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>>3648533
yes, i saw one the other day. horrible creatures in it.
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>>3648537
looks like youre on the wrong board then
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>>3648539
not at all, i have vast knowledge of rpgs and i like helping people with their questions. i just don't exclusively play rpgs.
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>>3648542
>i have vast knowledge of rpgs
No you don't, you're here to maintain shitty generals for games you don't play any more.
> i just don't exclusively play rpgs.
You haven't played a single rpg in over 2 weeks. You shouldn't be here. If you are not actively playing an RPG there is zero reason to be here.
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>>3648545
incorrect. i've helped many people here with my sage wisdom.
>2 whole weeks
is that a long time to you?
>If you are not actively playing an RPG there is zero reason to be here
why?
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>>3648547
>incorrect. i've helped many people here with my sage wisdom.
I know 10x more than you do about every RPG you have ever played so you can safely leave.
>why?
Because this isn't a place for you to hang out, its for discussing RPGs. Join a discord if you want to troubleshoot for retards. Spoonfeeding is wrong to begin with, but that's a whole different can of worms.
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>>3648551
do you never help anyone? seems like you're too busy being combative and crying about other posters.
>Because this isn't a place for you to hang out
no.
>its for discussing RPGs
yes.
>Join a discord
no.
>Spoonfeeding is wrong to begin with
yes.
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>>3648555
>do you never help anyone
No, I will never help anyone play an rpg. I do not want people to play rpgs who are not naturally interested in them and are too stupid to play them. That's how you get games like dragon age and elder scrolls.
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>>3648558
well, then you want me here, i can't stand tes or dragon age or the witcher games. problem solved.
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>>3648561
You play rimworld, you are a retard.
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>>3648562
why are you arguing with a retard then? lol, you don't value yourself highly.
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>>3648566
Go be a retard on a board for games you are actually playing.
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>>3648569
i don't know much about how to be a retard. does it involve crying about anonymous people you have no power over for many hours a day?
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>>3648572
You'll continue to prove me right and shit up the board. With every post you make I am more and more justified in my behavior.
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>>3648574
hmm, let's operate from your perspective for a moment, have you heard of the phrase "it takes two to tango"? like, if you are constantly aggressive and just throwing childish insults around, no one is going to feel anything from your digs. you should try actually talking to someone.
>>
It's been quite entertaining watching the decline of Bioware in real time. Drag Age Troonguard will hopefully be what kills the developer.
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>>3648578
>you should try actually talking to someone.
I talk to people that aren't retards. If your perception of me is that of combatant this is an indicator that you are a retard who frequently makes awful posts.
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>>3648583
this is a good theory you have, but i don't only read the posts you make that are interacting with me.
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>>3648583
You sound like a redditor. Go back faggot.
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>>3647712
Dialog choices aren't really true roleplay choices. They're narrative choices. They've already scripted out an entire narrative with pre-recorded cutscenes in this case, and now you get to choose which cutscenes you want to watch. That's not a true roleplay choice.
These sorts of discussions are usually really about people getting upset that the animators, directors, writers, and actors didn't record nasty cutscenes. You're free to feel that way and to be as juvenile as you want, but trying to couch it in roleplaying choice and freedom is stupid.
True roleplaying choice and freedom is grounded in the fact that you can at least, fundamentally roam around freely and direct your own travel. This means that you're not being told to go a certain way, coerced or forced, and you're not having your free roaming interrupted by cutscenes and scripted events. To the extent that a computer RPG interrupts the game in this way is the extent to which they diminish the fundamental ability to roleplay. However, most people posting and replying to threads like these have already given up on that fundamental building block of roleplay and choice, they don't even consider it. At that point it really is just whining about the narrative and the fact that they don't have all sorts of nasty scenes recorded for them. It's essentially a pornographic debate, but you're saying you don't like gay porn. Cool.
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>>3647835
>consequences
>it doesn't matter which option you pick
Uh, anon...
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>>3647714
fpbp
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>>3648530
I don't say that. You're creating boogeymen.
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>>3648783
100% correct I will forever remember this reply
If inconsequential dialogue choices are roleplaying that most good RPGs out there would barely qualify.
Honestly, this dragon Age game should barely be called an RPG. Ive never played this shit, but having watched some reviews due to this controversy this game is not much different from ffxv and assassins Creed rpg-like entries.
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>>3647735
>make cringe unappealing character
>don't want to keep it around, but the game is reliant on having said character
>"you brought it on yourself, we did provide the character for you after all!"
I like when shitty design is gaslighted as "realism" and "fact of life". Good game would have and option to provoke them into starting a fight, then promptly getting spread across the pavement by "our team", giving me the enjoyment I paid for while keeping it real
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>>3647712
I thought the entire point of trans people is that they want to be the opposite sex. So why wouldn't they just select the sex they want to be? Is this proof they don't actually see themselves as what they claim, or is it all just a big victim circle-jerk?
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>>3649505
You don't get it, when you have only two options its too easy to reach a conclusion that you are not special and your life sucks not because of what bathroom you go to, so you need scratch that bottom of the barrel and keep it vague and not final so you can't be expected to function in a society
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>>3649505
representation for people who're transitioning but haven't managed to complete the transition
> silkworm =/= butterfly
> they can't imagine playing an RPG where they aren't playing a self insert dependent upon their current life circumstances
> special snowflake
honestly, pick one. end result is them being a part of the 41% anyway
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>>3647712
None, hopefully this trend of dialogue gay RPGs will end someday.
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>>3649505
When it comes down to it, they want your disgust. They want you to hate them and to be mad at them for forcing this. Every time you give them more rights, you've been culturally raped by them. It's a corruption fetish, satanic at its core.
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>>3649505
Ironically enough, this question came up on the official subreddit just yesterday. There's a fair amount of replies.
https://old.reddit.com/r/dragonage/comments/1ggydt2/honest_question_from_a_straight_cis_guy_not_meant/
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>>3649505
>So why wouldn't they just select the sex they want to be?
You aren't supposed to self insert or create a power fantasy in RPGs. You are supposed to play a character you are uncomfortable or unfamiliar with. You should never ask "what should I do?", you should ask "what would this character do" otherwise you aren't roleplaying. So the question itself is entirely irrelevant.
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>>3649530
That's how my BG3 run ended at the end of chapter 2. The only option was to cry "i don't wanna die" and run away, or tell gale to blow himself up and destroy all the evil enemies we had chased. So that's what my berserker dwarf character did. He wouldn't run.
Boss defeated, good guy win. Game completed and uninstalled.
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>>3649530
But isn't selecting your character to be trans more of a self-insert than selecting your preferred sex? These people in real life are trans, not women. So it's actually less of roleplay to select trans.
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>>3647886
>You will never be a dragon.
It is my eternal dismay, I want to be a dragon so much.
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>>3649543
>But
It doesn't matter, the question is improperly formatted and irrelevant. If dragon age is gay and trans, which it is and always has been like all bioware IPs, then it makes sense for those options to be there. There is nothing to argue over. Veilguard is for people who want to know what it's like to be a trans ogre and that's it. There's no point in crying about the being a trans ogre game then crying when it's about being a trans ogre.
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>>3648784
Ravel doesn't care what you pick, you buck broke her and made her head over heels for you. If you pick up on that, and if you do the mebbeth mage quests you get +2 wisdom and +1 intelligence, which will make it easier to get the best ending that requires high wisdom.
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>>3647747
> I think the world will greatly benefit from your death
nta, but extremely ironic
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>>3649519
>satanic
the first part is correct. but I can't take you seriously with this shit. you're embarrassing you dumb nigger
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>>3649671
he means satanic as the 'morning star', the 'illuminated ones' think they are above conventional morality in a corrupted nietzschean pseudo-philosophy where excessive self-consciousness of the tools of control leads to a determination that following your gut is unfettering yourself and hence leads to a nihilistic desire to tear down any constraints. this is itself a tool of control, because with no standards a person is unable to judge and a person lacking judgement can't form an argument or defend themself. i agree that using "satan" carries too many connotations for an atheistic population that doesn't understand that word actually represents a part of humanity and not a demon underground.
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>>3649530
>You aren't supposed to self insert or create a power fantasy in RPGs
>source: your ass
It literally exists for you to make choices and adjustments in a situation presented to you, not click "next" in dialogue and sit through cutscenes. That's good for an adventure game, not something with character creator, dialogue options and silent protagonist. It's designers job to make me familiar enough with the circumstances to make choices, the earlier the better. It is also their job to make the premise engaging and supporting cast likeable, not for me to endure the slop with the hope of gaining some higher understanding of life. Saying "it's the creators' vision" as if that makes it immune to criticism is pointless. Putting in the non-cringe option to let me play the character I want to play would be incredibly easy, it wasn't an oversight and it wouldn't make any difference on the budget.
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>>3647712
Rather few choices that are meaningful,m than a plethora of illusionary choices.
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>>3649530
RPG fanbase is full of autist with impaired theory of mind who hate thinking from other people perspectives. Most like making their character their self insert because they are too self absorbed to be invested in a different person's story.
Source:my projection
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>>3649530
>You are supposed to play a character you are uncomfortable or unfamiliar with.
I disagree with this, unless you mean it isn't possible to be familiar with people who aren't you. Which for autists, may be true, but not for fully functioning people.
>You should never ask "what should I do?", you should ask "what would this character do" otherwise you aren't roleplaying.
This is absolutely true.
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>>3649842
You are playing the wrong genre then. You should be playing AAA action adventure movie games. Like veilguard.
>>
3 choices.
No more. No less.
It's not taste or opinion. All games should have exactly 3. Anything else is an error.
>>
Games shouldn't rely on dialogue choices at all. The reason BG3 was so popular and good is because there are tons of ways to interact with the game beyond dialogue choices. Any game that relies on dialogue is always terrible, new vegas and vtmb are no better than veilguard.
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>>3649530
>t. self inserts in literally every game as the anime little girl he will never be
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>>3649671
Incredibly innocuous thing to be bothered by, even as an atheist. Touch grass.
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>>3648513
Do I have your permission to whine? I pirated the GOG version of Y X, was pleasantly surprised that it recognized my demo saves from the demo on steam
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>>3650795
>Do I have your permission to whine
No, there's not a single rpg there.
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>>3650795
>pays premium for an overpriced shitty rom collection that runs worse than the actual roms
>pirates a falcom game
please don't ever post again
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>>3650796
Dawn of Sorrow is pretty much an ARPG, perhaps to a fault.
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>>3647712
3 choices.
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>>3648132
"Everyone deserves to be represented in game. Except kids, that makes me uNcOmFoRtAbLe"
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>>3652745
[Yes]
[pop-culture reference]
[No]
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>>3648783
>True roleplaying choice and freedom is grounded in the fact that you can at least, fundamentally roam around freely and direct your own travel.
>but its also a proper RPG at the same time with deep choice and consequence, interactions, dialogues, characters and changing world state based on players decisions
Game like that doesnt exist anon
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>>3647776
Dunning-Kruger: the post
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>>3647712
It's never about quantity, but quality. But also that the choices feel meaninful.
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>>3648486
>cherrypicked handful of examples where if you squint hard enough it lines up with his confirmation bias

This kind of behaviour is why people think you're all retarded.
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>>3648508
>Is this actually real?Why even have options at that point?
A better question is why games this board praises does worse shit, yet gets a free pass.
Like Pathfinder outright ignoring your actions in the game and railroading you into only being able to say what the devs want you to.
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>>3652983
It's all double standards to push a dishonest agenda. Culture wars are just a cudgel to push garbage.
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>>3652978
>you're all
Who?
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>>3647712
Depends on the team size and skill. Branching the story adds an INSANE amount of work. I'm making an RPG and I can't do branching without the writing depth taking a major hit.

I have come up with a decent solution. Instead of hard branching, where the player makes major decisions, you soft branch and let the player control how they present themselves. Let them say or do what they want at the right moments.

I find that works best because interactivity and reactivity are more fun than major decisions unless those major decisions are plentiful and well-written.
>>
>>3653002
>Branching the story adds an INSANE amount of work
No it doesn't lol, if this is the case your game is too railroad. If you have to construct new rails for every branching action then the game is rotten to the core.
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>>3653011
It does depending on the scale of the changes, how many, what it impacts and so on.

If your branches have little impact, then yes it doesn't add that much work, since at that point it's just a slight variation of a single one.
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>>3652922
No argument: the post.
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>>3653011
It's the voice acting.

Games like Planescape and Pathfinder are read only so they can go wild.
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>>3653002
Look at Age of Decadence for inspiration on branching.
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>>3650798
Retard, the Castlevania Dominus Collection has native PC ports of the games. They're not roms. Falcom doesn't deserve money. They have $100+ of day 1 DLC for games that come out 3 years later in the rest of the world. Fuck off.
>>
>>3653059
The definitive versions of the games are objectively their originals. You paid top dollar for bad roms of the most casual reddit genre ever created.
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>>3653011
Depends on specifics but anything major does add a lot of work unless you keep the story shallow or if you are writing for something linear.

>>3653025
Pretty much this.

For example, originally in my game you could pick the companions you wanted in any order and romance them individually but the issue became writing scenes based on your choices/progression. I'd have to account for who you picked, who you romanced and how far and that would have to apply to all scenes in any order. I like my solution and so far my players enjoy it too. I think being able to express yourself in dialogue is a lot more fun, it creates an engaging scene rather than you watching stuff happen and making some choice on something big.


>>3653051
I'll check out a playthrough of it. Thanks for the recommendation.
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>>3647984
>It doesn't matter what we choose. What matters is our build.
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>>3653025
>It does depending on the scale of the changes, how many, what it impacts and so on
No retard, it doesn't. I can guarantee your game isn't capable of infinite permutations. Any idiot can account for basic deviances in a railroaded story.
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>>3653060
>most casual reddit genre ever created
Order of Ecclesia is more difficult than any CRPG ever made.
>>
>>3653237
>No retard, it doesn't
Please talk more about things you know absolutely nothing about. We're all on the edge of our seats watching you flaunt your ignorance.
It's clear you have no knowledge of game development or narrative design, so naturally your words hold incredible value for everyone in the thread.
>>
>>3653237
> I can guarantee your game
Wrong anon you were replying to.

>>3653252
That anon's point is confusing regardless of experience. Everything is railroaded since you are always forced down a path. The railroading is more of the feeling that the illusion of choice is broken. I sidestep the issue by immersing the player through soft branching/choice. You feel like you are part of the story rather than dictating it. It is possible to feel like you are dictating it through very careful design like fallout NV but that is a tricky one.
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>>3649530
You are responding to a question that was not asked and making zero sense.
If "you are supposed to play a character you are uncomfortable with" then why is there a need for a "trans" option and minority representation in general? Are the minorities uncomfortable being themselves and specifically ask to be included so they can be uncomfortable in RPGs as well? If the point is just being unfamiliar with your character then even most basic and limited character creation will do, you'd just have to adapt.
Clearly you're confused.
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>>3653002
>Branching the story adds an INSANE amount of work
And isn't worth it. Likely just makes the story worse.
Imo it's better to just have different ways of completing the quests, and that doesn't have to impact the story. Get the mcguffin by killing, stealing, bartering, or completing a sidequest. Maybe add some cosmetic results. "Stormcloacks won, now guards are stormcloaks" type results.

Reaching too far with branching just increases the likelyhood of a messy unfinished failure
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>>3653285
>Reaching too far with branching just increases the likelyhood of a messy unfinished failure
Exactly.

> Maybe add some cosmetic results. "Stormcloacks won, now guards are stormcloaks" type results.
Yeah, you can pull it off with some well thought out small adds like that.



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