>NPC tells me step by step how to find my way to certain spot, with long description of surrounding>i got minimap showing me the way where to gowhat was the point..?
>>3653624>npc doesn't give directions>minimap shows where to go??
>>3653624>sword of +15 damage (may poison)>sword of +22 damage>sword of +36 damage (fire-type)>sword of +45 damage>sword of +64 damage
>>3653636>Buy a sword>Only one person in the party uses swords>Find exact same sword as dungeon treasure
>>3653631The idea is that the minimap shouldn't be there as player was given directions already. Extensive minimap use and ui pointers spoils the exploration. Look at how shitty skyrim is, the damn game that was designed around quest arrow. There is no point of exploration in that game, as evry quest was designed around mindlessly following map marker.
>>3653638https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Unmarked_Locations_(Skyrim)Here's 270 unmarked locations of interest, have sun.
>>3653638Yes yes quest markers should be optional/thread
>>3653641>muh unmarked locationsMeanwhile every main quest, every faction quest and all the dlc quests use follow the pointy arrow formula.
>>3653643You said there was "no point of exploration", and I just gave you 270 reasons to explore. Get to it, fuckboy.
>>3653624>this certain boss uses special ability that makes him almos invincible by any weapon>cheapest bitch ass spell takes ability away straight away
>>3653637this.>buy magic turbo weapon for all my savings, feels like christmas or brand new car>first shitty dungeons give you 2x better item for doing fucall, killing some kobolds idkalso, obligatory:>all items to buy from trader are shit, theres no point in buying them at all
>>3653641If only there was anything actually interesting there, the loot is so bad.
When medieval RPG has todays pop-culture references like movie quotes in Witcher 3 for example
>>3653655Witcher 3 has a couple of my pet peeves: bland skill trees that require you to meet point thresholds and crafted items that are better than 98% of the loot you find
>>3653652i have randomly found once some wooden mask letting me breath in water, Skyrim is overall shit tho
>>3653624>level up>game is no longer challenging
>>3653644And do any of these 270 places have anything at all in them?
>>3653657Dragon Priest masks aren't really randomly placed, or good.https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Volsung_(item)
>>3653662>NOOOOO I WANT TO BE REWARDED FOR EVERYTHING NOOOOOOOOOO
>>3653662No, they're not some ubisoft POIs to check off that give you a dopamine hit. If you can't enjoy the world, don't bother
>>3653624>>NPC give you exact directions>>the directions are wrong (it's a swapped dialogue intended for another quest)JUST...
>>3653673i remember i was looking for these bloody Azura gate in Morrowind fo 2 hours. i was patient enough only because had beer in fridge
>>3653624I liked that one (literally only ever happens ONCE) quest in Skyrim where the quest-giver goes outside with you and points the ruins on the mountainside that you need to explore.
>>3653671>dopamine hitExactly what kind of chemical reaction do you think you are experiencing when you find one of these POIs that makes you enjoy it?
>>3653696It's steady enjoyment throughout for me.
>>3653699Sure, bro, you're immune to human physiology while playing a video game. Video games are all dopaminergic.
>>3653702No.I'm saying if you don't enjoy wandering Skyrim, don't make it a task to reach some random place expecting to coom over an artifact or something. It's not going to be the accomplishment that momentarily fills the void in your life.
>>3653708No, you're trying to make a false equivalency to rationalize the game not having good itemization or quest design. You play Skyrim for the dopamine response.
>>3653710>No, you're trying toNope>uhm actually dopamineYes
>>3653624Quest markers in general have pretty much robbed the joy of anything.
>>3653852I like that one big circle on map implying your destination point is somewhere around that place. A lot of gamers are braindeas, its very cheap entertainment for everyone - including preteens and people too busy to focus on details that just want cheap nad easy experience. Descriptions and thinking makes sells drop, thats the answer why quest marks and other idiot friendly "press x to win" exist
>>3653852At the same time, I understand them from a development perspective. Things change in games, a lot. If I drop Town B next to Mount Skull and someone says "Go to Mount Skull just east of here and get me a Doohickey" then that's fine. Now, what if something changes?If we move the town, rename/relocate Mount Skull, change the location or name of the Doohickey, then not only do we have to rewrite it in the dialog and journal, we need to grab the voice actor and make him do the line again and that depends on the schedule of someone who could be doing several jobs at once, and some voice actors can be quite expensive, especially if called on short notice.Sure, you could just use some generic lines that wont run into that problem, but that causes >>3653631 to happen and it gets called "laziness". If you want to fix the open world RPG, you have to kill the expectation of full voice acting.This also assumes it DOES get fixed. It would not surprise me if a few open world games had completely bunk directions in their quests, or referenced things that simply did not exist.
>>3653651>after 30 hours of gameplay, realize that all the gold you've collected is useless>still can't stop picking it up
>>3653624I hate level scaled loot in some games, but it's fine in others. I'm fuming that it was in Cyberpunk 2077 of all games, and that it was combined with locking unique gun properties behind skill trees. Cyberpunk is about gear porn, yeah, but not "You find a pistol and 5 minutes later you find an identical pistol with +3 damage" shit, it's "There's a dozen pistols made by different manufacturers". It's even worse you find """legendary""" equipment but you get it too early so it's out scaled by trash tier common weapons in a level or two. For all the shit people give Bethesda games this is honestly something they get right. An iron sword is an iron sword in their games, if you find a hard enemy with an ebony sword early in the game and get it, you have a fucking ebony sword. You won't get a +5 iron sword that's inexplicably better after you level up. Why do modern Fallout games do their loot better than Cyberpunk? Why is Skyrim's loot more immersive than the Witcher's? It drives me up the wall.
>>3654189>For all the shit people give Bethesda games this is honestly something they get right. An iron sword is an iron sword in their games, if you find a hard enemy with an ebony sword early in the game and get it, you have a fucking ebony swordNo you retarded cock gobbling redditor they don't fucking get it right. Someone who picks up a daedric weapon at level one should not be a god a similiarly a experienced combatant should still be extremely dangerous with a rusty iron sword. This is how dnd works, but TES doesn't. In TES loot is extremely vertical and works like diablo loot. It has the same loot system as witcher. Both of these games are extremely bad and neither deserve to be discussed.
>>3654197>Someone who picks up a daedric weapon at level one should not be a god a similiarly a experienced combatant should still be extremely dangerous with a rusty iron swordYes, you fucking spanner, that's exactly why your weapon damage scales with your skill level in Bethesda games, and also your Attributes in Bethesda games that aren't skyrim Skyrim. Stop trying to start arguments over nothing, unless you truly believe a weapon forged from the heart of an immortal being fused with one of the strongest weapons around should not be better than rusty iron. Stop trying to start arguments over idiocy.
>>3654197>This is how dnd worksIt's also not how DnD works, you're essentially comparing a +X weapon to a regular sword, or maybe something even worse because any DM that isn't dog water will say that a shitty rusty iron sword is less effective than a regular one. I hate when vrpg people try to drag /tg/ into their arguments, fucking stop it.
BROSif i gonna be a janitor i gonna ban moeblob forever, you have my wordvote for me MAGA
>>3654570you should make a pact with moeblob for you both to leave forever.
>>3654575But im here since the beggining! My threads have 150+ posts usually
>>3653921>If you want to fix the open world RPG, you have to kill the expectation of full voice acting.I have disliked full NPC voice acting in games ever since I saw what it did to Oblivion. At least it's not as bad as having a voiced protagonist.>We can't tell you what your character is going to say before you pick the option because then you would skip the voice line!!!yes
>use a spell that instantly highlight stuff you can interact with in a 20m radious>the spell makes a KACHIN! soundThanks I always wanted to know were everything is at all times, rowlingInb4>"just don't use the spell">when the game is designed with the spell use in mind, so some things are purposely even more hidden and you wouldn't "naturally" find them
>>3654594>My threads have 150+ posts usuallythis isn't a mark of quality considering it's you and moeblob arguing for 100+ posts.
>>3654575thisand by pact, I mean hatesex
>>3654626im not a faggot YUCK
>>3654613>"just don't use the spell"i hate people with that mindset
>>3653637Alternatively:>Game has elaborated crafting system>Items you can craft are at best only slightly better that stuff you get from looting and quests
>>3654729>Has a crafting system>Useless in the main game>Mandatory in the postgameStar Ocean 3 really fucked the pig on that one, all the ultimate weapons require refinement and further work on them which can only be done in specific locations and takes a lot of time. If it gets a remake it needs to take notes from SO2.
>>3653921>If you want to fix the open world RPG, you have to kill the expectation of full voice acting.I completely agree
>>3654729I don't think I've ever played an RPG that didn't have a completely pointless crafting system. Maybe I'm just a casual and I need to play more hardcore games, but I swear most of these games barely try, or even actively undermine themselves by setting up a halfway decent crafting system and then nerfing it into irrelevance for no apparent reason.
>>3654763Check out the Atelier series, crafting is a major part of the game, setting, and its appeal.
>>3654763Some people really enjoy the loot slot machine. If they could make what they wanted, they would lose the thrill.
Unskippable cut scenes, in any vidya desu
>>3654769false dichotomy, loot doesn't need to be random. but, loot is the impetus for the dungeon crawling profession and encourages exploration. crafting is for npcs you pay with gold you source from selling your loot and using materials you get from slaughtering rare beasts, like making dragon scale armour or something.>>3654907having a cutscene at all makes a game less of an rpg.
When writing clearly isnt the main "meat" of the game, but theres just soooo... much... words, and its all unskippable. Some RPGs just have bad story/writing, and its fine, really - I like the gameplay, but when I cant play game cause of shitty dialogues, its horrible.
>>3654763SaGa Scarlet Grace. Its not exactly "crafting", cause you dont make items from scratch, but upgrade items in different paths, but still
>>3653676It's the starter quest too.They really put a lot of effort into the early game that they knew 90% would experience and then gave up.
>>3653624I'm ok with markings of well known in-world locations like towns or specific shops and such. What really grinds my gear is where game gives your direct marking to a location your characters shouldn't know. Like an entrance to secret hideout or a random cabin in the middle of the woods that wasn't mentioned once in the story.
If your game doesn't have instant or near-instant text speed, I'm gonna be under your bed.
This isn't an exclusive thing, but I hate tutorials. Tutorials shouldn't be a thing. Just make the 1st level/dungeon make you use all of the game's core mechanics.
>>3654763The crafting loop is broken in Morrowind and Skyrim, not so sure about Oblivion.
>>3655031you can craft 100% chameleon. so...
>completely brick your build and cant respec because you didnt use a spreadsheet to meticulously plain your build for a game your playing for the first time blind
>>3655039No respec, no respec at all!
>>3655031Don't even need to try to break it. Make an enchant and a potion of + X% crafting skill and it lets you make better potions/enchants of +X% crafting skill.Your only limits are gold, and that shit practically falls from trees.
>>3653624>Here! I'll mark the location on your map!>No map in inventory >You can't see your own ass>Tfw map logically must be tattooed on stretched out ballsack
>game has werewolves >Silver weapons are strong against them>Werewolves are exclusively endgame enemies where the damage boost from silver is far outclassed by whatever you have on handFucking Bloodmoon
>item level depends on your level>kill way overpowered boss after 100th try>artifact you loot turs to shit in next couple of levels and it belong to rubbish>game punishes you for looking for challange
>buy a sword>find a treasure chest in the next dungeon>same exact sword
>>3655105
>>3655105>>3655108Make most loot be gold, and make most gear store-bought so the player gives a shit about gold past the early game, imo
>>3655039>you brick your build an hour in but won't find out until 100 hours later
>>3655115I love Pathfinder!
>>3655116>oh no I bricked my build, which I can respec at will
>>3655108I should adopt this attitude. Try to see the brighter side and make the best of a bad situation. Thank you, anon.
>>3655123>I should adopt this attitude. Try to see the brighter side and make the best of a bad situation. Thank you, anon.Most based /vrpg/ post of the day
>>3655128its best way to be life long loser that doesnt learn from his mistakes
>jokic getting punked by gafford and om prospernot ideal
>>3654763I liked Summon night.
>yes>yes in angst>yes but laterthank you bioware
>arrogant elf>Quirky halfling>Grumpy dwarfFucking tiresome
One of the thing that's made me angriest recently in playing Expeditions: Rome, where after each chapter you enter Rome and it unequips all your weapons and armour for the time you're in the city, which means when you leave again you have to dig through your inventory and try to remember who was using what for all 6 companions to get them set up again.
>>3655769That's cruel and sadistic. Why would they do that to the player?
>>3655786Laziness. They want you unarmed in Rome because the missions there are balanced around trying to avoid fights and scrounging up whatever weapons you can find when you can't, and I guess just unequipping all your shit and locking you out of your inventory was easier than making the game store your loadout separately for once you're back on campaign.
>>3655790Is the game good overall tho?
>>3653624"+3% damage done with piercing weapons on a sunny day" type upgrades
>>3655855It's about as good as Viking, but I don't like either as much as Conquistador. The sequels have much less of a focus on the Oregon Trail style resource management and dealing with random travel events and that's what really made that game unqiue. They're pretty much just normal CRPGs now. Pretty solid and it's neat to have purely historical settings for this sort of game too.
RPGs that have autistic metagame leveling tricks that requires extensive planning and research to optimize, like stat elixirs in gothic 2, research/skill books in VtMB, and just elder scrolls leveling in general.>just don't worry about it and play sub-optimally broNo, if the option is there I WILL ruin the game for myself
Crafting mechanics that punish you for collecting the materials to craft. The Fallout series is a good example; I just want to craft cool shit, don't punish me for collecting the junk to do it by taking up space in my inventory.
>>3656079>I WILL ruin the game for myselfThis is why I ignore negative opinions here
>higher difficulty is just enemies with 5x damage and 10x HP
>>3656102>Crafting mechanicsThis in general. Fuck off to minecraft with that shit RPGs are about story
>>3653624>Grinding that feels like a chore>loot scaling to player level>limited inventory>story options where every answer is a grey option that results in something bad happeningThe last point is probably my biggest peeve. I have quit many modern RPG's after being presented such options, even if I can easily think of better routes to take. 'Grey' morality choices in games started, I think, some time in the early-mid 2010's. Then quickly increased more and more. I have always felt that it was a crutch that shitty writers used. "We wanted to make it feel like your choices matter!" is what I have seen said many times when grey choice writers talk about their stories. As if making the player regret making their choice on some level, no matter what they choose, is the way to make them feel that the choice 'matters'. As if they are imprinting their cuck mentality on their narrative creativity.
>>3657695Think of it this way: black and white choices aren't much of a choice for white characters.
>>3657695I personally don't think it's much of a problem. I kind of hate it when every single situation has some objective "right" answer, which usually also results in more xp, loot, and/or story content. I want to play a roleplaying game, not do a graded multiple choice quiz. "What losses are you personally willing to accept" is more intriguing than "Will you: A) Pick the nice option with absolutely zero downsides or B) Pick the option we don't want you to pick with all the downsides"
>>3657947Should be the other way around imo. Doing the bad thing should be materially rewarding, doing the good thing is its own reward.
>>3657947Gray choices are never "how will you express your ethos", it's "everyone and everything is shit". Incredibly boring stuff.
>>3653624>Tyranny not letting rape the Vendrien queen in public Kuroinu style
>>3657952That would be the way to do it. Put all the rewards on the evil side, but make sure the player feels like a piece of shit for doing it. You can go the good path and feel good, but you're not going to get any rewards.
Random loot from fixed locations:>Struggle with 3rd tier equipment for entire playthrough>Check out guides post-completion>Best strat is to save-scum at every chest/zone for dropsIf save scumming is the optimal way to play you've done shit wrong.
>>3658748Completely remove all random loot from the game. Either make all loot interesting, unique, and hand-placed, or just replace all loot with money and treasure and make all gear bought from the store so you give a shit about money past the early game.Death to loot tables.
>>3658750>Completely remove all random lootReduces replayability.
>>3653671>>3653666There are billions of unmarked unique locations in your nearest surroundings. Had you ever went to explore the broken toilet thrown out in the woods? Or the rusted sign someone drew a dick on?
>>3658870Are you seriously suggesting RNG loot is a factor in RPG replayability?
>>3658886Yes I am.You can imagine a scenario where players go to a specific location for specific loot, effectively making the game more linear. Now, if that loot is random and thus can be found somewhere else, players can go elsewhere to look for it, making the game less linear, therefore increasing replayability.
>>3658886>>3658748Fear and hunger has a middle ground solution to >>3658750Loot is random, but important gear is placed in another smaller pool in difficult locations well advanced in the dungeon.So when you get there, you can savescum to get the gear you want, but you gotta get there.And all items in that smaller pool are great, it's just a savescum for preference, not really to get "a better item", there is no sword+1 and sword+2, it's more like sword+2 and armor+2
>>3658894And how does the player know where that elsewhere they want to obtain a specific instance of random loot from is?
>>3653624>>NPC tells me step by step how to find my way to certain spot, with long description of surrounding>the directions are wrong
levelscaling of any kind is a justification for execution of the developer
>>3658894>make a character built around wielding a certain weapon type>rng fucks you in the ass by never dropping said weapon, invalidating your entire character conceptyou don't find this just a bit flawed? fixed loot is far better because you KNOW where shit is so you can plan accordingly.
>>3658894>You can imagine a scenario where players go to a specific build, effectively making the game more linear.>Now, if stat points are random and thus can be anywhere, players will create more varied builds, making the game less linear, therefore increasing replayability.Random stat distributions and skills is what you're asking for.On the plus side this also means devs have to balance their games around any build now that min-maxing is no longer a (planned) thing.
>>3653624>>3653638I want to say there is a game I played that did it, but it was probably just a foldable map in Red Dead or something... but anyway, yeah, I think it would be interesting, and I'm kind of curious how successful a game would be if it had no minimap, but a world map in your backpack that you had to take out and look at. The idea being that you are at least somewhat forced to try and remember where to go since it's inefficient to keep taking out a map to look.
>>3653624>tons of filler items and containers strewn about>need to constantly hold the highlight key>most containers contain useless trash>actual good items occasionally hidden amongst the endless trash
>>3659519>most containers contain useless trash>actual good items occasionally hidden amongst the endless trashThis is actually a pervasive design problem that extends beyond items. It's worse for enemies. I'm so sick of games spawning 100 useless fodders to steamroll effortlessly until they randomly mix in a total cunt who wipes you. Possibly identical except slightly bigger/fancier/palette swapped. Then back to fodder.They obviously want you to start paying attention but it sucks because the other battles stay pointless no matter what you do. Time to memorize that particular shade of enemy and keep mindlessly wading through everything else
>>3659266>fixed loot is far better because you KNOW where shit is so you can plan accordingly.It's better if you're a metagamer, not a roleplayer
>>3659291The last game I remember that was designed to be played without a quest arrow was the first Dishonored, where they had to include it for the modern retarded adhd gamer, but the game had been essentially designed for it to be played like Thief to the point the devs were essentially telling players to switch it off for the best experience. But even that was more than 10 years ago now
>>3659821>the first Dishonored, where they had to include it for the modern retarded adhd gamerIs that the one where you had a mission to infiltrate a mansion during a fancy dinner party, then go upstairs to reach the target? But there were guards at the bottom of the stairs who said you can't go upstairs, so loads of players took that as a law of nature and never even tried. They got stuck and couldn't figure out what to do next.
>>3657952I agree with the principle, but I think it only applies in certain contexts. In real life, doing the 'bad' thing is only materially rewarding in certain situations where there is something on the table and you can get away with taking it. Just being randomly horrible to everyone usually doesn't help you get ahead.
>We're a completely castrated organization with no desirable features, but maybe YOU can do something about our problems>I have a problem, but I haven't actually made any attempt to solve it myself. I was waiting for YOU to come along. >I've never met anyone like you before!>This is the first job you've ever done for our organization, how would you like to be involved in the most crucial work imaginable? >Agency? What's that? Please wipe my ass for me, mighty heroYeah. Power-fantasy fags should get the rope. These things have been ruining RPGs since RPGs started.
>>3660113think about it differently: would you want to play as average joe the factory/office worker or code monkey? balance is the key. Good example of lack of balance is japshit RPG "teenager boy ready to kill god and save the world"
>>3660138>think about it differently: would you want to play as average joe the factory/office worker or code monkey?Yes. Playing as a (cruical) cog in the machine is more satisfying than being a mary stu saves the day.It also allows devs to add big bads that feel like an actual threat. As the hero you're expected to slay the demon, as would-be fodder, it feels like an achievement.
anything that involves absurd mechanic obsfuscationif people have to completely dissassemble your game to figure out what the fuck's going on, there's a problem with your gamei'm an information overload guy, when i play pic related, my hud gives me every single stat you can conceiveably think of, and in lego legend, i used the mouse drivers to come up with a cool trick, hit "advanced champion statistics" and never let go, but riot halfass patched it, and it would wear off after a fixed amount of time, and it's probably illegal to do in tournament play
>>3660225video games are about escapism
>>3660234For some, a mundane life is escapism.
>>3660113I wish there were heroes and adventurers roaming around. Send them on fetch quests for milk, delivery quests to take my rubbish to the bins, escort quests to take my dog safely around the park and back, combat quests to shut up the neighbour down the street who plays music too loud.
>>3660324>combat quests to shut up the neighbour (...) who plays music too loudThis one would be relly useful.
>>3653624this is why i like morrowind
>>3659778>rng loot>better roleplayingwhat are you smoking?
>>3660876Agreed, random chance has no place in role playing. I know everything there is to know about roleplayers except why they roll weird plastic shapes on tables. Presumably some sort of fertility ritual
>game has “evil” path>clearly less developed, worse written, and generally unfun>even “Evil” companions prefer good path because it’s not the right type of evil for themBG3, both Pathfinder games, Fallouts 3, NV, and 4, Wasteland 3, DA:O and DA2, among so many others. Why even bother pretending there’s an evil path if it’s gonna be so lamely phoned in?
>>3660900I said specifically loot for a reason.
>>3660138>would you want to play as average joe the factory/office worker or code monkey?
>>3653624People have become entirely consumptive about their vidya playing that anything that makes them go explore and look around is deemed a waste of time that slows them down from consuming the game so they can move on to the next game. At the same time, modern game worlds have become so huge and yet not worth exploring most of the time, that you can't fault people for having this attitude. Devs are creating open worlds and then still designing their games like they are hallway moviegames.
>>3660876Metagaming is bad for roleplaying.
>>3660901Out of curiosity (because I'd like to try playing such a thing) can you think of any examples of games where the evil path is equally rewarding?
