For this episode of FF8 Schizo-core we dive into the character of Zell. He is probably the least interesting and unassuming party member. There's no mystery around him. Of all the orphans, he was adopted by the Dincht family, so he's got a little more background. There's just the question of his personality and character design.
>>3656766I believe Zell was just an inkling of Prompto's character in FF15. He was meant to be a loser who changed themselves prior to the events of the game. In that way, his character arc was meant to be seen through flashbacks and memories. The "cry baby" we see at the orphanage was sort of a wet blanket. He was bullied by Seifer, and was worried about breaking rules and getting into trouble. But this is contrasted with the opinion of Balamb NPCs who knew Zell as a "wild child". A risk taker. A rule breaker, even. This is also at odds with his discipline as a martial artist. And the fact that his Grandfather who he admired was some kind of military or navy and probably would have kept him straight.While Quistis was the "prodigy" in theory. It's Zell with the nickname "Know-it-all Zell". He's also handy with machines and skillful enough to copy Squall's ring for Rinoa. This might suggest that the Dincht family were originally from F.H. or Esthar. Indeed, the photo of his grandpa in his room is obviously Ward in his green Esthar robes.
Esthar was the technologically advanced city in FF8. In FF15, it's Niflheim that is the technological terror of the world. So not only did Prompto have doubts that Prince Noctis would want to be friends with him. There was also his secret origin from an enemy nation Niflheim. With an extra juicy secret layered on that.Potentially Zell could have had a similar setup. Where he'd kept the fact that his grandpa was from Esthar a secret.
>>3656794Did I mention his name is "Zell"?That's "Cell" in German. Although they named him "Xell" in the German version, which was almost the case for the English version as well.
>>3656798And speaking of regional differences. In the Japanese version, the cafeteria sold sweet bread, not hotdogs.
While Prompto evidently had a sweet tooth, Verstael was only interested in "sweet revenge". In consolidating power he attempted to acquire a legendary monster called "Adagium" which ended up being Ardyn. "Adagium" is latin for "Proverb" which is a strange name for a monster. But you have to understand that Final Fantasy has a certain naming convention for summoners. Eiko "Carol" Vanille "Oerba" (Opera)Caius "Ballad"Verstael is probably a play on a song or poem "Verse"So Adagium could be an old family name. When confronting Regis with the Royal Arms, Ardyn said he should know how that's possible; being royalty himself. Regis instantly knew "Adagium". And Ardyn cleverly responds with an adage: "In the Flesh"
>>3656790>But this is contrasted with the opinion of Balamb NPCs who knew Zell as a "wild child". A risk taker. A rule breaker, even.If this is true, they could have used better language. The people in Balamb mostly call Zell things like "rowdy" and "loud", which isn't necessarily the opposite of being a crybaby. Also, all the interactions your party has with Zell STILL paint him as a crybaby wuss who cares too much about rules, so any attempt at showing a character shift is completely undermined by that.>Indeed, the photo of his grandpa in his room is obviously Ward in his green Esthar robes.Uh, no. Not only does the timeline not work out, but the photo is clearly an older man with gray hair and/or a beard, neither of which matches Ward, who is literally still alive in Esthar at the time. And Ward wasn't a soldier for Esthar, he was a soldier for Galbadia. Also, Zell has a collection of his grandpa's guns; Ward didn't use a gun. He used a giant fucking anchor.As usual, schizo ramblings fall apart as soon as you apply half as much logic as you do enthusiasm.
In Japanese, Dincht is just "Din"As in a long unpleasant noise. Similar to "blair", I guess.But it's more of a chaotic overlapping noise, like industrial machinery. Not strictly musical. Although in operas or ballets the "din" or "clamor" of the audience can drown out the orchestra. "The Rites of Spring" was a famous for the negative reaction it had on audiences. You go to the Ballet expecting elegance dances and beautiful music. Instead it was girls in potato sacks stomping to discordiant instruments. Useless trivia: The Blair Witch Project came out the same year as FF8. Popularizing the "found footage" horror genre. "Blair" in this case was was the name of a Township that banished this fictional witch "Elly" who children accused of luring them into her house to draw blood. A bit like Freddy Kruger, who haunted the dreams of people on Elm Street. The villagers tied her to a tree left to die, in one version of the story. The accusing children, went to see her corpse but found she was still alive. So they tortured and killed her themselves. But the children all disappeared after that. Elly was an orphan that was abused in foster care. Bullied by boys. Then by these children. She escaped into her fantasies where she had an army. An army of dolls. Dolls made of sticks. I'm not an expert on this movie. I don't know the differences between the original and remake. It's just interesting that an army of black mage dolls were made in FF8, and it's a feasible background story for Sorceress Adel. Her Esthar robot soldiers were possibly also the inspiration for Verstael's magitek soldiers. Even though the machine empire was first done in FF6.
>>3656873Ward does have a beard. Although it's easier to see in the ripped texture than in the game. And, no, the timeline doesn't make sense. Because despite being older and with a beard in Esthar, in the ending FMV he and Kiros appear young again. >Time Kompression, I guess.If anything, it would make more sense if Odine was Zell's grandfather. That's O din. O'dincht? Odine has Ward's Triad Card, which is usually possessed by a family member. Ward'din.Anyway, it's not a theory on "canon". But a theory of development.Verstael doesn't make his magitek army until after he recruits Ardyn and makes use of his power. Ar din? Ar'Dincht?Ardyn's "demonizing" has a lot of capabilities, including absorbing the memories of his victims. Memories or perhaps "souls".
>>3656883Kuja explained Black Mages as being made from mist, which is like soul ectoplasm filtered by the Iifa Tree. I forget the exact word he use, but he was being theatrical. Was it "Brine"? Hard to say if it's souls or just soul adjacent. If they're soulless or an accumulation of souls. Coincidentally, that's how Final Fantasy got "Alexander". It was a mistranslation of "Accumulative Soul" in FFV. Remnants of a War of the Magi. The Iifa tree is basically Ex-death.FF13 Lightning Returns goes as far to say that souls are made up of Chaos. It's possible the "starscourge" Ardyn absorbs is also just the Prime Materia of souls. In other words, "chaos".Speaking of "remnants", there's Sephiroth's Remnants in Advent Children. Also seen spreading black ichor to brainwash an army of children. Instead of "chaos" it was "geostigma" The "cry baby" brawler of the group is Loz. Not strictly a "clone" but I would say definitely coming from the same idea. Of course "Edea" was originally a forest witch meant for FF7. She would have awaken the dormant part of the brain call "Jenova" responsible for magic and ESP. Before Jenova was reimagined as Space AIDS. It's hard to tell if Zell was also planned for FF7. Since Tifa's mentor was supposed to have many pupils, including Rude.
>>3656829>"Adagium" is latin for "Proverb" which is a strange name for a monster.It's an adage.
>>3656909>this is a Dajh.
>>3656907Loz does fight Tifa and Rude in the movie.
Since Julia played the Piano, it's possible she had students, and a potential connection to the orphans. At F.H. I usually have Zell on the Sax or Guitar. I could go get a screenshot of him on the piano. But I'd rather not.
>>3656921I wonder if Madam M is a reimagining of what Edea's character might have been.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqZ1kN4Wkdw
>>3656929>Received Combat King 03.I like how "Girl with Pigtail" aka "Librarian with Braids" literally doesn't have a name and the other students called her "Girl with Pigtail"
>Meteor Barret
>>3656935>Masshivu Ankā
>D'jechtDid you know? The "motion actor" that did Zell's backflips and stunts also did motions for Tidus in FFX. Although, I think it's more accurate to say it was stock motion capture data that they just happened to use. But I don't know.
You know...I don't think Zell and Ellone really had any direct connection. And it's interesting that Zell specifically doesn't go to space. Why is that that? Nothing would have changed if it had been anyone else. I'm wondering if, in a different draft, if Zell and the others also had Ellone connect ability. If Odine had other children besides Ellone. Zell was "connected" to Ward in D-Prison, which was convenient. But was that really Ellone doing it? Why?
>>3656952Odine isn't the one that completed the Junction Machine Ellone that Ultimecia used (that we never see). Perhaps it was Zell in the future. Zell's Prison Dream and the one when they first enter Esthar don't make a lot of sense with respect to Ellone's motivations. If Ellone wanted to change the past, and prevent Laguna from rescuing her, what would that have to do with Ward in D-Prison? Later in the game Ward can be absent from the Ruby Dragon dream sequence if you read a certain magazine before that point. Where were they going with that?
>>3656960This scene in D-Prison is also interesting. Zell, on his knees thanking Squall is kind of out of character. Like maybe this wasn't Zell at all. Or perhaps it was meant to mirror some part of Laguna's Story that was cut from the game.
[insert montage of Shuyin in Prison and playing the piano here]
>>3656971Zell being possessed by a ghost could explain some inconsistencies with his personality. But it might get a little confusing with a Future Sorceress also possessing people. The rules of which are never spelled out either.
>>3657847But entertaining the thought, when and where would Zell have been possessed? While optional, we can see the Ghost of the unnamed King as early as Disc 1. It was simply trapped in a stone coffin. Although I feel D-Prison could trap ghosts too with it's anti-magic field. In FFX-2 Shuyin was sealed in the den of woe along with Vegnagun at Mushroom Rock Road. I'm not sure any of that has a good equivalent with FF8. Lunatic Pandora was the equivalent to a weapon. I can definitely see a piano control scheme connecting to Julia somehow. Ancient "Music" Tech is a recurring theme in Final Fantasy. Usually with Bells and Harps. It occurred to me that Adel's Tomb is captured by Pandora with golden strings. This could have been like piano, harp, or guitar strings. The word "pillar" in Japanese can also mean bridge in the sense of an instrument. The "frequency" that the Pandora emmits to trigger a lunar cry might have been intended to be a song or melody.
>>3657858The "Song of Nephilim" in Xenosaga also emitted a frequency, albeit a "Psychic" waveform. I can only speculate how early certain scenarios might have been written. The Song of Nephilim is in Xenosaga, not Xenogears. However Fei's mother did "spirit fusion" experiments with psychics - whatever that means. The "Angels" in Xenogears also had a kind of musical control scheme with an audio puzzle in one of the dungeons. FF14 is also known for using scrapped scenarios. There was a Primal, Anima, in the Tower of Babel (which is in FF4 as well as Xenogears)The Tower in FF14's case, drew in aether to summon lunar versions of primals. And Anima "tempered" people through radiowaves. The radio interference in FF8 was caused by Esther's Sealing Technology over Adel's Tomb. It suppressed not only her magic, but block any junctions as well. We never got an explanation for where G.F.s come from. but all G.F. related items and abilities have a crescent moon icon which is suggestive.
>>3657890While Pandora was hidden in the ocean. The Song of Nephilim was initially on planet Michtam as part of a building where Shion's Mother was being treated. The Pandora is very tall, however. So even on the ocean floor the top may have been above the water. The developers put more time into it, I think it might have been visible on the world map. Also, In the PS2 game The Bouncer there is the City of "Edge" and the Mikato Building which I think is suspiciously similar to Fisherman's Horizon, featuring a long ocean railroad to a man made island city. It wouldn't surprise me if this was an unused concept recycled from FF8. Of course The Bouncer also features Angelo as the mascot of Dog Street. Among other FF references. It would be interesting if a city/building was built on top of the Pandora in FF8. Run by a mafia family. Perhaps an alternative concept for Deling City. Why else would Edea/Ultimecia bother occupying it when all she really needed was the Galbadia Garden and Army? Perhaps she knew what was underneath it.
>>3657910That top triangle patch is a garden/forest. At the center is a dome and piano where we see Kaldea playing for no real reason other than to see her get up and shapeshift into a panther.
>>3657910"Master" Mikato is who Volt worked for as a bodyguard. A bit like Gladiolus in FF15. But Volt was framed for his murder. He was shot at, fell of the building into the ocean and drifted to shore. That's how he ended up as a Bouncer at Fate's bar. We could theorize that a Mikato building in FF8 was a 4th, defunct Garden, and that Zell's grandpa was the Garden Master. I always felt like there should have been a 4th garden since the distribution of the orphans seemed lopsided. 1 in Galbadia. 1 in Trabia. Everyone else in Balamb? Zell being adopted was of minor importance on disc 2. Quistis was also adopted.Based on details from WoFF. I believe Quistis was meant to live in the Trabia Capital (cut from the game) and her family ran an inn/hotel with a sauna or hot spring. Potentially this would have been occupied by Galbadia on disc2 while searching for Ellone. And instead this got combined into Balamb's Occupation, with Fujin in the Hotel. While the Prototype World Map says Trabia Capital had a castle, for all we know, this could have been a machine like Figaro Castle in FF6. Or it could have been on a glacier or even built on Pandora (as a modern thing within the last 16 years)It was a requirement for the field test to obtain a G.F. so Squall got Ifrit. But the game gives you Shiva and Quezacotl at the start. Meaning these could have belong to Selphie or Zell. Ice from Trabia, Lightning from some machine capital, like F.H. perhaps.
>>3657935We've seen frozen machine cities before. There's the mining town of Nashe in FF6. And in FF15 Niflheim.I'm putting Quistis in Trabia as a parallel with WoFF. But it makes perfect sense if she was always in Balamb. I can just as easily see Zell in Trabia as a parallel to Prompto's origins in FF15's Niflheim. Trabia had an odd detail that mentions how citizens are all conscripted during war time. I'm not sure if this would include orphan garden students as "citizens". But maybe it would included Quistis or Zell since they were adopted into families. This detail might also be more relevant to the Laguna Era, as Trabia would have been at war with Adel at the time. It's possible everyone's original family were from Trabia and died in the war. This wouldn't be the first Final Fantasy game to do this either. In FF2, Firion was a native of the snowy Salamander region before being adopted into Leon and Maria's family. In the novel, there's a sect of Black Mages living in the mountains. But they're more like Martial Artists; blasting things with "Chi" waves from their fist. This is actually how Borghen is imagined in the book, unlike in the game where he's some kind of pirate. Quistis deals with pirates in WoFF so there's still a parallel there. Seifer's "fire spell" is also supposed to be "chi" and not a magic spell. Seifer was absent for a good chunk of the game but I can definitely see him and Zell having a confrontation with a "chi" master.
>>3657971Since Seifer already learned "chi" control, maybe there was another technique he wanted to learn. Perhaps this is where he learned the Zantetsuken-Reverse he pulls on Odin. Coincidently, in WoFF, the icy harbor town that Quistis appears in is Saronia. A call back to FF3's kingdom. But lorewise, Saronia was more of an airship city, not a harbor town. Beneath Saronia, accessed via underwater tunnels, is Odin. Odin is called a "legendary G.F." in FF8. But that raises questions about the history of G.F.s in the world. He is found in the Centra ruins, but perhaps he was meant to be in Trabia Castle. Ipsen's Castle in FF9 has a similar mirror symmetry architecture and connection to the Odin Eidolon. But in FF9, "legendary" would be redundant. A legend is part of a Eidolon's existence. That may or may not be the case with G.F.s in FF8.
