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>What are the Four Noble Truths?
1. The five aggregates that make up the phenomenal world are suffering (dukkha).
2. The origin of this suffering is desire for sense-pleasure, desire for existence, and desire for non-existence.
3. This suffering ceases when these desires cease.
4. The cessation of desire (nirvana) may be accomplished by the Noble Eightfold Path.

>What is the Noble Eightfold Path?
Right View, Right Intent, Right Speech, Right Conduct, Right Livelihood, Right Effort, Right Mindfulness, and Right Meditation.

>Where can I learn more?
Ideally you should read the discourses of the Buddha. For secondary lit and translations, read up to see if the author has an agenda besides promoting Dharma (theosophy, perennialism, etc.). Avoid the 19th & early 20th centuries: Rhys Davids, Herrigel, Jung, Suzuki, etc. Modern scholarship is much better, older commentators are more hardcore.

>Pre-Sectarian
In the Buddha's Words - anthology by Bhikkhu Bodhi
Atthakavagga - Pannobhasa's translation
Dhammapada - most translations
Other suttas at Access to Insight and Sutta Central. The Buddha's first discourse is SN 56.11

>Theravada
Visuddhimagga - Buddhaghosa
Theravada Abhidhamma - Karunadasa
Progress of Insight - Mahasi Sayadaw

>Mahayana
There are many schools of Mahayana. These are some of the core sutras.
Bodhisattva Path (Ugrapariprccha/Vimalakirtinirdesha Sutras) - Thich Nhat Hanh
Lotus Sutra - Burton Watson's Translation
Three Zen Sutras (Heart, Diamond, & Platform) - anthology by Red Pine

>Vajrayana
Intro to Tantra - Lama Yeshe
Refining Gold - Dalai Lama
Look to centers in your area & sites that offer empowerment online (avoid NKT, Rigpa, and Shambhala). Also check out Garchen Rinpoche and the Dalai Lama's YouTube catalogs; you can take empowerment/transmission from their recordings if vows are understood, but really you should have a teacher.
The FB group Vajrayana Events regularly posts online empowerments, lungs, and teachings.

Previous Thread:
>>37133610
>>
Imagine dwelling in the house of some crusty deadweight buckwheat pseudo metaphysics like Buddhism. Vatayansahama lavala boobala parnama crama! More like: jenkem huffers.
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Enjoying the purity of all things.
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>>37198795
Reminder that our world is Shakyamuni Buddha's Pure Land
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>>37198826
Quite true, and it's important to take advantage of that fact. That said, some might find it easier to cultivate in an outer pure land like Sukhavati
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>>37198795
Beautiful, inspiring image.
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>>37198826
Stay in virgin Shakyamuni's Pure Land

Chad Amitabha's Pure Land is here it's happening
>>
I dont remember where I heard it, but there was one lama\rinpoche on youtube saying, talking about dream yoga "some meditators can live 100s, 1000s of life-times in one night and learn there"
Did he mean literal subjective time of a full life-time (even if here only one night passes)? Or more like, a speed-run with the most relevant events of each Life?
>>
>>37201769
>The chad world of endurance and suffering
>The virgin persian pleasure garden
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>>37198822
>>37200344
>>37201499
>>37202266
Checked and blessed
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>OH NO NO NO NO NO NO
>ITS OVER MADHYAMAKABROS

Jay endorses Candrakīrti’s and Śāntideva’s criticisms of the memory argument for reflexive awareness.
1. When I remember yesterday’s blue sky, I remember not just the blue but also the seeing of blue (the visual awareness of blue).
2. To remember something one must have experienced it.
3. Therefore, at the time of the visual perception, the seeing (visual awareness) must have been experienced along with the object seen (i.e., there was a reflexive awareness of the seeing).
Here is Jay’s presentation of Candrakīrti’s rebuttal: “All that is necessary for memory… is that the cognition that counts as a memory be caused in the right way by a previous cognitive episode. So I might experience today’s sunshine, fail to be reflexively aware that I am experiencing it, and tomorrow recall the sunshine in an episode caused (in the right way) by today’s perception, but in neither case thematize my own subjectivity in the matter” (p. 141).
>>
>>37202472
This response has two problems. First, the point about not thematizing my own subjectivity is irrelevant. The memory argument does not require that my subjectivity be thematized in the perception or the memory. On the contrary, the subjectivity can and usually does remain unthematized in both cases. In consciously seeing the blue sky, there is implicitly an experiencing of the seeing. The memory includes this unthematized selfawareness by implicitly including the seeing in the memory. The kind of memory in question is what cognitive psychologists call “episodic field memory”—the factive memory of personally experienced events as remembered from the first-person perspective. In remembering the blue sky, the blue sky is given to me in memory as seen from my first-person perspective, which is to say as a phenomenal content correlated to my seeing. Thus, the visual awareness (the subject aspect) comes along with the blue sky (the object aspect) in the memory. Only in the case of a reflective memory is the seeing experience (the subjectivity) thematized.

Second, it is not sufficient for a state to be a factive episodic field memory that the memory be caused in the right way by the previous cognitive episode. To appreciate this point we need to look at Śāntideva’s rebuttal of the memory argument. The rebuttal takes the form of an analogy. A hibernating bear is bitten by a rat. When he wakes up in the spring he experiences the pain of the infected wound and knows on that basis that he experienced a rat bite, even though at the time of the bite he was not aware of the bite. Jay describes the point of the analogy as follows: “(1) One can come to be aware of a previous event through causal sequelae of that event even though one was not aware of that event at the time of its occurrence. (2) Those sequelae can induce a cognitive state intentionally directed at that previous occurrence even if one was not aware of that occurrence at the time”.
>>
>>37202476
The analogical argument, however, seems faulty, for two reasons. First, the two situations are not properly analogous. There is a crucial difference between the bear scenario and the recollection of the past perception. The bear is not consciously aware of the pain when he gets bitten but the past visual perception of blue (ex hypothesi) is a conscious visual perception. So the analogy would have to be revised so that the visual perception of blue is unconscious and this unconscious perception triggers a causal sequence culminating in my memory of the content of the unconscious perception. The problem here is that there is no evidence that we have factive episodic field memories for such unconscious perceptions. In other words, that the perception is conscious is necessary for it to be consolidated as a factive episodic memory.

Second, the two conditions given in the analogy are not enough to explain the phenomenology of episodic field memory, specifically how the past appears as past in this kind of memory experience. The two conditions are (1) being subject to an event of which one is not aware, and (2) as a result being caused to have a later cognition directed at that event. To refer mentally to the past on the basis of information retrieved in the present is like reading the date-stamp on a letter and on that basis thinking about the date on which the letter was sent. What is missing is precisely an experience whose intentional content includes “remembered episode as experienced by me.” Memory is not thinking about the past on the basis of present marks (like tree rings or time stamps or present mental images); it is representing the past by or through calling back one’s past experiencing, and that requires that one was implicitly aware of that experiencing when it happened.
>>
>>37202227
I've known people of other traditions (basically siddhas) induce that and have similar experiences using techniques similar to the Dzogchen tradition, so it's pretty literal. They're not exactly Bonpos, more like independent shamans, still they have their own lineages.
>>
>>37203036
I wonder how It'd be like to interact with those people.
maybe theyre biologically 40 but have lived "subjective time" of 5000 years of human lives!
>>
>>37202479
I don't understand anything, do you have any tips on how to acquire this knowledge?
>>
>>37203962
just read more books about whatever topic you want to understand and supplement that with reading academic articles published about that topic, that's what I do
>>
>>37203036
>>37203852
Also; Does this mean that "good and bad" karma done in (fully) Lucid dream, is actually, fully-effective karma?
Example: Mistreating dream NPCs vs visiting lucid-dream temples, stuppas and attending sangha and dharma activities.
>>
I have a major issue with moving in stillness it seems to be normal though.
>full lotus
>vertebrae start opening
>lose posture and lay on my back
>thunder and lightning inside my head
>pop back up
>it rains down my scalp
Another one is head bobbing up and down whenever energy passes the throat.
I've gotten my fair share of beating from my teacher for losing posture, but this is different, my heart remains clear and there are results beyond my own means.
I have an idea of what's happening, but i sorta need confirmation on this.
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>>37204439
Yes. Since all realities are empty illusions, you should be compassionate and wise in dreams, waking, games, stories, etc.
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>>37205267
No, dreams aren't even conventionally real. Saying reality is like a dream doesn't mean waking reality and dreams are the same.
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>>37198795
What's the best & fastest way to reach "access concentration" or "one pointed concentration"?
I'm not messing around, I want results, so please no pop-zen™ stuff like: "wanting results is wrong man, just be yourself man".
Which type of meditation works best for this?
Does the length of daily practice matter?
Does the time of day one does these practices matter?
Is the environment one meditates in important?
What things can I expect as I meditate?
How long will it take?
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>>37205712
Read the diamond sutra
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>>37208139
Try Lamrim in a Year. https://lamrimyear.com/
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regardless of what you think of the NKT, the statues and arts they create are very pretty, I would say the best in modern times.
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literally crying because of how awesome the buddha is
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>>37208141
Just because reality is illusory doesn't mean saying the sky is green is equally as true as saying the sky is blue
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>>37212144
How is that relevant to the original question? "Should I cultivate positive karma in dreams?" Yes, because all realities are simultaneously illusory, you should generate merit no matter what.
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>>37212644
You don't accumulate negative karma in dreams because, although everything is illusory, dreams do not even have the conventional reality of waking reality. People generally agree on the nature of waking reality, no one can confirm the reality of your dreams.
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Hello, everyone
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>>37210868
What does NKT mean?
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>>37212644
Oh, now I understand the question. I think so, since it's possible to manifest control and even awaken from dreams. Recently I no longer have control over my dreams and this has given me doubts. I think it's linked to my lack of practice.
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>>37213241
Is this image from the game Shin megami tensei?
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>>37198795
The only issue I've ever found with the four noble truths is that it seems to over simplify suffering. A person with severe depression is suffering, yet they may have no motivations or desires. From experience I've found that in this way the elimination of all desire can also lead to suffering. Such suffering is not on the 8 fold path to be sure, but pretending it does not exist is harmful.
>>
>>37213112
This reads like you're trying to find a loophole for doing bad things in your dreams. Say some purification mantras and work on your practice.
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>>37213112
When I dream people in my dream exist in their conventional reality. That waking reality takes up more of my life than the reality they experience is of little consequence. That they come from my mind is of little consequence. We are people of a dream in much the same way.
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>>37213402
There are three kinds of suffering the buddha explicated on.
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>>37213452
>existence, change, and suffering itself
None of these matter to one who has given up all desire (as the Buddha says), yet still they may suffer.
>>
I remember when I thought buddhism was some hippie shit, then I found out it's actually just pointless metaphysics debates, and I don't know which is worse really
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>>37213511
What subjects does Buddhism deal with that boil down to pointless metaphysical discussions?
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>>37213853
Look around.
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>>37213904
If you think that discussing Dukkha, Anicca, Anatta, Lobha, Dosa, Moha, etc are a waste of time then tell me what you think wouldn't be pointless to discuss? What exactly did you come here for?
>>
>>37213402
Depression would generally fall under vibhava-tanha, the third kind of desire enumerated by the second noble truth.
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>>37213438
So do you think you astral project into other dimensions whenever you dream? Dream beings exist entirely in your mind based on karmic traces, they are not sentient beings with their own mindstreams.
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>>37214087
>generally
I'm talking about personal experience right now. However, it seems the melancholic bliss of liberation is closer to the general experience of depression than many realize. The acceptance of loss does not diminish the suffering it imparts. Without thought of any kind, let alone desire, suffering remains. That is why the solution is not the elimination of perspective, but the inclusion of it. This is the 8 fold path.

>>37214075
I came here to share what I know, but I also recognize that doing so is pointless. Does that offend you?

>>37214133
Dreams and waking experience both happen in exactly the same place. That is why karma is still relevant.
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>>37214192
I also have severe depression and I don't think the root of the problem is a lack of desire. The lack of desire comes from the lack of reward from the environment and from our own mind.
>>
>Hevjara Tantra
The Lord said: ‘Food and drink must be just as it comes. One should not avoid
things, wondering whether they are suitable or unsuitable. One should not perform
special ablutions or purifications, nor avoid sexual intercourse. 26 The wise man
does not utter mantras , nor devote himself to meditation; he does not abandon
sleep, nor restrain his senses. He should eat all meat and associate with all manner of
men. He keeps the company of all women, his mind quite free of trepidation. He
should have no love for friend, nor hatred for any enemy. Those gods he should not
honour, which are made of wood and stone and clay. For the yogin should always be
consubstantiated with the form of his own divinity. Men of all castes he may touch
as readily as his own body
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>>37214465
Yes, welcome to the real Vajrayana
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>>37214385
The root of my depression was one of exclusion and limited perspective. The result is a lack of desire, and despite this result, suffering still remains.
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>>37213474
They are suffering of suffering, which is straightforward pain, the suffering of change, which actually refers to happiness, and the all pervasive suffering, which is the fact that all phenomena are conditioned. Desire isn't the only cause of suffering, there is also ignorance, anger, pride, and jealousy.
>>
>>37214803
depression is "end my suffering" territory
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>>37214192
Does writing a story about characters who suffer accumulate bad karma?
>>
>>37213402
>A person with severe depression is suffering, yet they may have no motivations or desires.
They crave to not have depression, or to make their depression meaningful, or to do nothing or be nothing, or for the causes and conditions for their depression to be different, etc.
>>37214192
>the melancholic bliss of liberation is closer to the general experience of depression than many realize.
Melancholy has nothing to do with liberation. Liberation is the end of the habitual craving for things to essentially be a certain way. People who are depressed erroneously think things are essentially a certain way and often also think that the way they seem to be is essentially bad.
>Without thought of any kind, let alone desire, suffering remains.
If you mean dukkha then yes, as to completely end dukkha there also needs to be deeper insight and not just no thoughts, otherwise we'd all be enlightened from deep sleep. But if you mean suffering conventionally then no. In the absence of all thought, all concepts, all language, etc could you find anything wrong here right now? Maybe you find a sight, a sound, a touch sensation, a taste, a smell, or emotion and you think "that is a problem, I don't like that, that is my depression or the cause of it". But if you weren't conceptualizing and labelling whatever is seen, heard, etc and then elaborating a story about what you believe it is and what you believe it means to you, what cause is there for depression or suffering?

I'm not invalidating your depression at all, but the fact is that you experience depression only when you're thinking about it or about what you erroneously think causes it. Try to notice that even when reading all of this, there was most likely even just a fraction of a second where you became focused enough on just reading that for that fraction of a second there was no depression. Buddhism is, among other things, the path of expanding that fraction.
>>
Hey, folks, I need you to clarify something for me: what is this ego thing? I understand the concept of atman and anatta, but I have no idea what the ego is. I've used a lot of etheogens, but this ego thing has never made sense to me.
>>
I don't know why but I really prefer learning through conversation. Reading the buddhist texts bores me to death but lurking these threads and asking questions every once in a while feels very good.
Love ya guys, keep it up.
>>
>>37216799
The feeling of I am, this is me, this is mine
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>>37216914
It's even better to learn from a good teacher
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>>37216919
The Atman?
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>>37216945
Ahamkara
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>>37216799
This is one of the things Hindu teachings explain better, as Ahamkara (causes of self-identity and the processes underlying the I-thought)
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>>37216799
Another way of understanding ego is that it's the sense of experience converging on a point, with you being that point. Sights, sounds, thoughts etc seem to be coming to a "me" that receives them. This point/receiver/ego is most often felt as being somewhere in the head.

Additionally, the ego can arise in the mind, body, and environment. So when it's realized that it isn't essentially attached to the body, it can begin to be felt anywhere. Commonly this is described as becoming one with everything or feeling that I am everything. The typical sense of "this is me or mine" when referring to one's body is now felt in everything. A lot of people get stuck at this realization believing this is the atman or even that this is what anatta points to, but Buddhism teaches that this "Universal I/ego" is also dependently arisen, empty, anatta.
>>
skillful bump
>>
I am trying to conceptualize the experience of nirvana but the phrases used to describe it seem so utterly alien to not only my positive and negative experiences, but experience itself. It honestly seems undesirable to me and is as confusing to me as the concept of being dead.
>>
>>37219768
Trying to conceptualize Nirvana is as antithetical to Buddhism as you can get. Nirvana as a realization should come naturally as you come to realize the true nature of reality and of yourself. So I would suggest first starting out with the 4 noble truths and the 3 marks of existence if you are trying to make sense of buddhism and its soteriological goal.
>>
>>37213251
bruh, is 'The New Kadampa Tradition' one of the most controversial buddhist organizations. They were created by a tibetan monk called Kelsang Gyatso, they are quite infamous for speaking ill of the dalai lama because the same prohibited the worship of a tibetan deity called Dorje Shugden, they are also called a cult, but as far as teachings go it is pretty legit, Hardcore Buddhism, no secular crap, so at least they got that going.
>>
>>37219768
>I am trying to conceptualize the experience of nirvana

STOP
>>
>>37219841
>>37219803
I'm not trying to practice buddhism, I just find it interesting and want to learn about it. I can understand that knowing something like Nirvana is intuitively impossible of course, which is partly why I find it so interesting and worthy of study.
>>
>>37219768
If you are looking for a meditation, in the Path of Purification, there is a meditation on the Recollection of Peace, which may be suitable for you, seeing as how you seem to be curious about nirvana and would like to reason it through.
>>
>>37219834
There are plenty of legitimate teachers of traditional Tibetan Buddhism who don't also worship a demon that wants to kill anyone who isn't a Gelugpa
>>
my karma must be exceptionally bad because I am in constant suffering
>>
>>37220093
Maybe, but karma in buddhism is not meant to be fatalist, you can work it out
>>
>>37219922
From what I read dorje shugden is not a demon, the dalai lama himself used to pray to him and only changed his opinion later. No dharma protector is evil you are being ignorant.
>>
>>37219834
That's interesting, I'll look into it, thanks.
>>
>>37220178
They tried to kill the last incarnation of the Dalai Lama for not being sectarian and not killing off the other sects of tibetan Buddhism. Sectarianism is against Rimé. Thus Dorje Shugden is still adharmic.
>>
>>37219768
In an abhidhamma sense, nibbana is the only dhamma that is just a dhamma. Basically it's the only thing that is "just real" with no other descriptors. So try to imagine what it would be like to be "just real".
>>
Do chanted mantras have any specific melody or can you chant them any way you want? I can't find any info about this topic. On YouTube I've found many melodic variations over the same mantra, but I want to be sure it's not a mistake.
>inb4 you need an initiation
I only use mantras that don't require any initiation
>>
>>37221611
Some do, but it's not universal, it depends on lineage
>>
Was there a school or technique employing arguing something like 'seemingly distinct particular things A and B; A really is or in B' but not necessarily via interdependence, more that A becomes B on elaboration, to demonstrate emptiness?
>>
>>37221611
Sounds like you could use a sangha to visit regularly, that way you can experience actual accountability, and take it easier on the intellectual tricks to keep yourself accountable.
Just Don't Steal the mantras and what knowledge you require to recite them, then the way to meet the prerequisites becomes natural and you have something better to do than inhibit a defect of greed artificially, as you appear to me to be doing now with an intellectual stopgap trick.
Initiation only relates to how you get to know some specific mantra and how you apply it in the context of a specific environment (e.g. a Sangha), not to the objective sound composition. They cannot be "owned", much like words and like how wisdom cannot truly be owned by any institution or government; that'd be a consideration on the level of coping with practicioners of black magic. Like worrying about cops when you're practicing driving a car on a parking lot, rather than paying attention to people that may cross the lot, friends that came along and are on the lot, or a friend that's in the car with you to instruct you how to operate the car.
As with cars, you should be able to make some estimation of whether you're getting into a Fiat Panda, a Ferrari, or a tank. And if you're smart you figure out where at least one brake is, whether it works, and how to turn off the engine, before you engage the engine carefully.
Not stealing the car is supposed to be the easiest part.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUnevp08SrY

Here's an example of mantras that you can freely practice if you find the words of this Rinpoche trustworthy enough that he wouldn't gift you a stolen car:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeOVST8_5C0
Same thing for other sources. It's all a bit more subtle than doing boolean excluding logic on "what's allowed" so it really pays off to reflect on these things with peer friends, e.g. at a Sangha.

>>37222449
Interesting, in what way does that didactic structure relate to sunyata?
>>
The lack of a supreme creator God in buddhism like hindus believe bothers me
>>
>>37223026
the guy is still there he's just
not important
>>
>>37223112
There‘s no creator god in buddhism it makes no sense, the world didn‘t come from nothing
>>
>>37223162
Maybe you're trolling but
https://www.suttas.com/dn-13-tevijja-sutta--the-threefold-knowledge-the-way-to-brahma.html
>>
>>37223026
>>37223162
There are Pure Land which are generated by Buddhas (not up to me to expand on their address) and with that they are akin to "creator gods". They are the sovereigns of their entire worlds - that is what being a creator "god" is.
It's analogous to the Prophets in Judaism - who speak "as God", never about the (not applicable) "self of God" but about how to get closer to their level of sacred, conscious experience.
The Buddha Pure Lands are much less widely misunderstood and - I estimate, from what I've heard about them - easier to get started with consciously.

So in short, no that Buddhists don't use Christian / Rabbinic lingo doesn't mean they'd all believe that "things just arise". There's also really not much point to making such determinations about "Buddhism" without knowing a bit of the mid-level teachings of the majority of streams of Buddhism, much safer and more gainful to speak of a specific tradition, lineage or even Dharma talk.
>>
>>37223395
>they'd all believe that "things just arise".
Everything is dependently arisen based on causes and conditions.
>>
>>37223112
Seems like he isn‘t that unimportant after all >>37223358
>>
>>37223162
The main premise of buddhism is the disobjectification of the self, ontologically wrestling with the dualism of a creator daddy is not really conducive to that. However, a lot of monks have no problem with calling the "true nature" or "Ultimate Reality" God or whatever.
>>
>>37223395
But what is the origin of all?
A single creator deity with no beginning and no end of course it‘s logical
Hindus get it
>>
>>37223431
>but what is the origin of all?
>with no beginning and no end
they get it, it seems like you dont. there is no first cause.
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>>37223546
What is the first being that existed in buddhism before creation
>>
>>37223162
>the world didn‘t come from nothing
The world didn't come from something either. The world didn't really come at all. The world is always becoming.
It is better even to not speak of "the world" as some thing or a container of other things that came or not or becomes or not. There is in this sense only "world-ing".
>>37223431
>But what is the origin of all?
To believe there was nothing and then there was something means you're reifying nothing and something as entities. Nothing and something aren't entities nor discrete processes. One does not replace the other, one's apparent existence does not mean the other is non-existent. Rather, "nothing-ing" becomes "something-ing". Something doesn't pop in and out of existence in or from nothing or non-existence, by the hands of a God or otherwise.
If you're now wondering "so what created or started this process?", then you're still subtly conceiving of it as an entity i.e. that there's this process now but also the "creator process or entity" before this one started. But this now is necessarily uncreated, beginningless, between existence and non-existence.
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>>37223684
You
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>>37223788
Brother you should get your explanations more concise because this is all really mental masturbation
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>>37223807
Is that a serious answer? So you are pantheists?
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>>37223848
Because it's your mind that perceives the creation, and it does so dualistically.
To go beyond the created-uncreated is freedom from subjectivity.
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>>37223788
Whats the name of the buddhist version of Allah Yahwe Trinity Brahman Waheguru you name it just tell me
A creator deity that was the beginning of all and has a character
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>>37223890
Samantabhadra (the all good), Vajradhara (the vajra holder)
Although that's just Vajrayana, general Buddhism is impersonalist
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>>37223864
I‘m honest I don‘t really understand it
So I ask my second easier question
If you believe in demons is there a kind of buddhist exorcism?
Also why do they look so cute and wholesome in paintings not creepy like in other religions
>>
>>37223918
Thank you now I have something I can look up
Do you pray to him or interact in any way?
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>>37223920
>If you believe in demons is there a kind of buddhist exorcism?
There are a few methods (from gentle to forceful). Though the demon is not seen as an independently existent creature, it still has the potential to cause trouble.
>>37223931
There is the practice of guru yoga, which aims to unify the mind with the deity. Though practitioners can have their different personal deities that are seen as variations of that one primordial Buddha nature, and they can honor them with offerings.
The kind of connection you have to it depends on your view.
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>>37221611
https://youtu.be/MCc9A4jFI54?si=2ZRzW3LzqQY4-CTg
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>>37221676
>>37222962
Thanks. Just to clarify, it's my intention to join the closest Sangha with a legitimate lineage (it's a Vajrayana one). I haven't joined yet because it's far away from where I live, not because of pride or ill will.
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>>37223820
If you feel that way I suggest you don't read any Buddhist texts, especially madhyamaka. Did you want the entire corpus of Buddhist metaphysics explained in a single sentence?
>Everything is empty!
Great. Figure out what that means without explanation.
It's ok to not immediately understand. If it was that easy, everyone would be done with samsara a long time ago. That being said, if you have any specific criticisms of what I said or how I said it I'd like to hear them.
>>37223890
I don't know, that's not my area of expertise nor is it relevant to mine (nor do I believe it's all that relevant in general). But seems another anon helped you there anyway.
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>>37224007
No, I mean to tailor to the audience.
Going about something-nothing-nothing-something is more empty and vacuous sounding than emptiness itself, and will not lead to understanding of such.
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>>37223984
Thank you very much
One follow up question, I know buddhism came out of hinduism so what do you think of hindu scriptures like the vedas?
Is it similiar to Islam who believe the bible was from God and true but was distorted by humans and islam brought the real bible back is it comparable
Do you ever read hindu scriptures
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>>37224007
I appreciate your answer nevertheless but it‘s difficult for me to understand religious concepts in general
My country is one of the least religious in the world maybe it‘s my dna
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>>37223918
They aren't creators, they're symbols for your own mind
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Okay guys, today I had an insight into the death of the ego. I remember having this experience with the consumption of etheogens. At the time I didn't relate the experience to the death of the ego. Today I can see better what people mean. This term has come up in recent dreams I've been having. In the dreams, I'm not the same person (I even have severe depression) and there I have nothing, but I still need my medication to balance my mind.
But I want to alert you to this idea that experience shows you your true self.
It's not only darkness that hides the truth, but also light.
I don't know about you guys, but I think there's something beyond and I don't want to go to the same place that hippie junkies go, I want beyond.

I declare that state is not mine, it's not me, it's not my I!
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>>37224052
You see, what is called Hinduism today was not around in the Buddha's time, or just beginning to emerge.
At the time, the Vedic cults and Brahmanism had already gone stale and Brahmins were quite degenerated. It doesn't mean that the Vedas are inauthentic in principle, but they were lacking in living wisdom.
Buddha himself, he was a hands-on person. After learning with different yogis, he found their methods insufficient and brought his own system of practical teachings. And this system has the advantage that you don't need to be learned in the Vedas or born into a particular caste etc., things that Brahmins were very adamant about but did not produce the right results in them.

What emerged out of that, whether it is Shaivism or Vaishnavism or later schools of Vedanta, share some of these innovations and expand on them in their own way.
I personally find great joy in reading some of the classical Indian works and devotional texts.
But it's more like a puzzle, where you can tell the authors clearly knew what is required to be understood, but there are many layers to it.
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>>37224103
Your own awareness, yeah
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>>37223684
https://suttacentral.net/dn27/en/sujato?lang=en&layout=plain&reference=none&notes=asterisk&highlight=false&script=
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>>37224028
It seemed to me that I did tailor to the audience, and I disagree that that particular way of explaining is vacuous or enigmatic. It's really more of an Alan Watts kind of way of explaining emptiness, which introduces less unfamiliar concepts/words that need unpacking. I appreciate the criticism though. I'll assess whether I can be more concise or clear.
>>37224071
That's ok. Most people find Buddhist philosophy perplexing for quite a while, but Buddhism is, at least initially, relatively flexible and customizable to one's personality or preferences. So if one Buddhist school or approach doesn't feel right there's no need to force yourself to take that one. The practice and path is supposed to primarily be a cause for joy also.
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>>37224189
Would you say buddhism is closer to the original indo-aryan religion than hinduism, I‘ve heard that claim from buddhists
Or do you believe all humans were buddhists originally, again like muslims believe all first humans followed islam
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>>37224293
All beings are considered pure by nature. If they are rendered impure, it is by their own delusions.
And I don't really know whether it's closer or less close, just that some rituals and deities were preserved in some of the Buddhist schools (like Shingon) that died out in other places.
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SUBJECTIVE SYNTHESIS
VIA
OBJECTIVE NEGATION
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>>37223431
No, that sounds ridiculous, I think a bit more highly of the Hindus than that. The closest idea is that Boddhisattvas are all ultimately unified in some up to very complete efficacy of acting with ultimate Boddhicitta from the beginning of their actions, and that's a mild cover-up for a practice of bringing both causes and effects into existence simultaneously on a level that exists above time. They are physically conditioned in such a way that they can tolerate existing in very close integration with that which is entirely without properties (such as existence or any kind of one-ness, such-ness or uni-ty) or attributes or anything that can be described.
What the Hebrews explicitly call "briut yesh me'ayin", what Thich Nhat Hanh calls "being peace" e.g. cultivating serenity.
Not some kind of narrow-minded and naive concept of "God literally exists and is countably one like a ping-pong ball", not at all. It is by virtue of the volution of creators that God expresses itself in the created worlds in a pleasant way and in Buddhism it's 10th bhumi Boddhisattvas that embody (hear the "boddhi" there?) this most ideal most actually, of their own volition.
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>>37223999
Yeah I'm just trying to clarify that if you're guarding against a negative trait artificially, and guarding with thought-forms such as "a logic" is artificial because it's bordering on the warlike (offense/defense) which invariably involves technology ("martial arts" are technologies too), that's either a compulsive habit of applying defensive meand or you have an actual problem that you made a temporary, partial solution for. "Where there's smoke there's fire", I've made this mistake a lot.
Is it perchance Diamond Way Buddhism?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LStBIUEUOrM
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>>37224052
>Do you ever read hindu scriptures
Used to and will again, for now it's more efficient to concentrate on developing and maturing just understandings of insights into Buddhadharma.
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Had this thought today, it's overly common to see people complain that Buddhism is nihilistic or life-denying or whatever.
I've come to the conclusion that there's no reasoning one way or the other, because this criticism, in all its forms, is fundamentally an emotional reaction. There's a few different charts like pic related that map human development as a series of levels, with atavistic-hedonism at the bottom and progressively more detachment and consideration as you go up. I think that all the "life-affirmers" are basically just stuck at one of the lower levels and their criticisms are just their complete disbelief that there is anything higher. Hence atheists assert "we are all just monkeys, nirvana is a story you tell yourself to feel good" and christians say "we are merely subjects of god, nirvana is a lie by demons" because they're both quite literally unable to conceive of life beyond filling out social duties or pursuing worldly pleasures.
It seems also that there are some parallels between these more modern models and the Buddhist cosmology. The hell-realms as well as animal and ghost realms correspond to the lowest rung, the human realm corresponds to a few higher rungs, devas to still higher, brahmas and formless way up top, and arahants being basically off the chart if not the pinnacle. The life-affirmers can't even conceive of something beyond humanity in this scheme, let alone total nirvana, so they bitch about it for not meeting their emotional needs.
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>>37225069
Arahants are said to be comparable to 7th bhumi Boddhisattvas but I don't mean to be sectarian about this, I'm a bit annoyed I didn't merit reading "pit stop past Sharavakayana to Mahayana is a detour", or basically understanding what a Boddhisattva would be in any useful way. IMO Boddhisattva path is easier in general in modern society because with Shravakayana you can get stuck with a specific Sangha and no easy way to learn from broader sources, feels very similar to me to the situation the NKT is finding itself in tbdesu.
And what you're describing sounds more like a culture of child abuse than anything else. These are people who routinely get poisoned with very dim and obstructive ideas, and who do not have the grounding in Dharma to emancipate themselves from these influences fully.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXqjmIIhIrY
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>>37224052
False.
Early Buddhist History (I): India in the Time of the Buddha
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLAP2qNgi-LGt0KATtUzU6BNGc7n6eEiw-&si=5EStNFhrOc6zyumy
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>>37223788
>>37224028
>>37224071
>>37224246
It occurred to me that perhaps my point could expressed more concisely by simply appropriating an analogy for anatta/emptiness from TNH. So I'll share for what it's worth. Interestingly, Nietzsche wrote about basically the same insight in a similar way.

Consider a sentence like "the wind is blowing" or just "wind blows".
People tend to infer that there must be some kind of "God (wind)" that "creates the world (blows)".
But if there's wind, there's blowing. If there's no wind, there's no blowing. And vice versa. Therefore the wind can't be separate from blowing. The wind, as an entity, also can't be one with blowing because if it was then blowing would be impossible.
Point being that there's only blowing; trying to understand the Buddhist philosophy of how the world came to be with a "wind is blowing" premise will lead to confusion.
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>>37225575
Minute 6
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8T-Z1WoFXkk
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>>37225632
Thanks for sharing.
We tend to perceive via the framework of nouns that verb, "the wind / the bell / my mind makes sound" or "I hear the wind bell ringing". Or we perceive our mind as a kind of discrete container e.g. "thoughts are in my mind" or "the sound is inside my mind". Grammatically and conventionally this makes sense but it's not the way things actually are.
Huangbo said:
>When I hear the sound of the bell ringing, there is no bell, and also no I, only ringing-sound.
Foyan said:
>You get up in the morning, dress, wash your face, and so on; you call these miscellaneous thoughts, but all that is necessary is that there be no perceiver or perceived when you perceive—no hearer or heard when you hear, no thinker or thought when you think.
The Buddha also says this in the Bahiya Sutta.
Dogen's teaching is indeed a nice elucidation of the "totality" aspect of emptiness.
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>>37226145
Fundamentally there is neither a subject nor an object of an action, as each action is reflexive onto itself,
Action, no actor [ultimately, at the level of dharmakaya, there is not even an action occuring].

That should do for now, thus the great stillness
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What are the major differences between dzogchen, zazen, mahamudra and vipassana/samadhi?
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>>37225026
>you have an actual problem that you made a temporary, partial solution for
Yes, exactly
>Is it perchance Diamond Way Buddhism?
Gelug.

>>37225069
>Christians are quite literally unable to conceive of life beyond filling out social duties or pursuing worldly pleasures
That's mostly true when it comes to Protestant denominations and the average modern catholic. I have no idea about orthodox churches. Medieval and early modern Christianity used to have quite a few mystics with profound insight.
Meister Eckhart in particular wasn't too far from the core buddhist teachings, despite the obvious differences. There are a few texts about those analogies, e. g. DT Suzuki and Rudolf Otto.
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whats the general buddhist opinion on Siddhardtha by Herman Hesse?
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>>37225069
The problem is the idea of God in my opinion, no wonder the path to achieving Nirvana involves abandoning the idea that there is a God. A person who believes in God ends up being too involved only in this world and its perceptions, because after all it was God who created the world, so everything is resolved in a deeper relationship with the sensory world.
>>
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>>37228803
I listened to an audio book of the first part until he got involved with the prostitute, I wasn't a Buddhist, but I liked it a lot, I think it must have been one of the reasons why I chose this path instead of getting involved with the occult.
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Is it true that mahayana is a impure and distorted version of buddhism except zen/chan/thien
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Honestly pure land sounds like christianity with buddha instead of Jesus…
Your excuse?
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>>37229187
That's just like, (your) view, man.
Go troll elsewhere.
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>>37229172
That's not how a Chán practicioner thinks about others. Distinct peoples and personality types have distinct needs and distinct optimal ways of approaching Dharma.
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Did the Buddha ever give proof of reincarnation or did he just assume it existed?
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>>37198795
Had a thought about killing bugs today
>do not kill
>every sentient being is your mother
In theory, if you eliminate these pests in your house - aren't you doing them a favour by giving them another chance to reincarnate into a higher realm?
According to the theory you'll take a karma hit, but wouldn't it hypothetically be a net positive if they have another roll of the dice?
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>>37229406
He saw his past lives in meditation. One was even an elephant iirc
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>>37229187
I have thought this as well.
Still om ami dewa hrih'ing just incase
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>>37229443
Maybe if you're living in a place where Dharma is very difficult to access. But then if you could somehow guarantee them a better reincarnation - who are you to say with certainty that killing them will be beneficial to them? - you can more easily teach Dharma so they will not have to die for a more favorable rebirth.
Like, if ghosts can benefit from hearing the Heart Sutra and Diamond Sutra:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NA_4S8uDYQ4
... then all the moreso do insects have a capacity to hear it, posessing entirely physical sensing (and hearing? definitely do they have a sense of touch and sight, so they can feel and see the vibrations or even just some of your mouth movements) faculties.
And then they can learn from Dharma not to annoy or otherwise disrupt a Dharma practicioner.
>2WDNA
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>>37229565
I see your perspective but bugs having the ability to access Dharma is very debatable. I have heard from many sources that the reason why human life is so valuable is that we are able to experience Dharma. Hence why suicide is such a big no-no.
I don't have any answers. Perhaps this line of questioning from my self is because the I is trying to assuage guilt from exterminating an insect infestation.
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>>37229596
There is a host of skillful means to... alleviate the killing. Not necessarily for you, but for the being being killed, more so.
https://fpmt.org/lama-zopa-rinpoche-news-and-advice/advice-from-lama-zopa-rinpoche/how-to-benefit-insects-and-other-small-beings/
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>>37229291
Buddha for sure didn‘t teach just chant my name and you will be enlightened
It‘s a fraud
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>>37229642
No, but if you concentrate on the word Bu-do and repeat it every day, you will probably reach Nirvana, many have reached Nirvana this way. You probably still don't understand how the process works. When you do, you'll understand how many seemingly wrong Buddhist schools are actually right.
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>>37229662
'Buddho' means simply, you are looking for Buddha. Once you stop looking for Buddha elsewhere, mind is Buddha.
That's about the gist of it.
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>>37229187
pure land buddhism existed in india before christianity, jesus went to india during his lost years and stole the concept
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>>37229172
no it's not, mahayana concepts like skilfull means, pure lands, buddha nature, the two truths, bodhisattvas so on, all enriched buddhism and took it to higher levels, the problem of mahayana is that they got too cocky and started neglecting the path of arhat and older scriptures, I think it's necessary to have a balance between the two.
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>>37230049
So what buddhist tradition is balanced you would say?
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>>37230794
Nta but in Mahayana there is the concept of one vehicle, the believe that there is no "pure, right way", but many that can lead to the right way. There is a passage where it compares washing off dirt, you can use your shower, take a bath, or even go into nature and search for a river or lake. In the end, if you achieve the positive outcome, it doesn't matter how you got there, just make sure that you don't use a puddle and get yourself eben dirtier in the process
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>>37230049
What do you mean by neglecting the arhat path?
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>>37229406
Rebirth can be seen as a logical consequence of dependent origination and emptiness. In an oversimplified way it is that the "I-process" or "self-ing process" continues when there is the necessary causes and conditions for it. It's not the same, but it's similar to saying that when you die your body will disintegrate and that material will be "reborn" in different forms.
You can also interpret Buddhist rebirth as referring to the constant birth, death, and rebirth of the sense of self which is happening all the time even just in this life. Some people say that rebirth refers in that way only to this life and there's no more lives before or after this one but I don't think that interpretation makes sense in context.
Just my understanding. Maybe another anon can be more precise.
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>>37231185
>the believe that there is no "pure, right way"
Feels like this is a more modern take. You talk to modern Asian monks and they're a lot more ecumenical, but then you read the actual Mahayana sutras and they have nothing but bile for the shravakas.
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>>37231185
There's really only one vehicle in the sense that each one leads to the next, there's still a hierarchy. According to Mahayana, Arhats are eventually awakened from their samadhi by a Buddha to enter the Bodhisattva path. According to Vajrayana, Bodhisattvas are eventually given empowerment and a consort once they have progressed on the bhumis. According to Dzogchen, all lower vehicles are just indirect methods leading to Dzogchen itself.
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Can I have european pagan gods and/or saints as dharma protectors?
In many asian countries they just include their native gods into buddhism
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>>37232997
We don't care maann
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>>37232633
This is an issue with Western literalists when it comes to the sutras and suttas. The religion on paper and the belief system in practice are vastly different things, not the least because the former is almost a screenshot of the later at a particular point in time. For example, the Suttas and even some commentaries try to focus on the jhanas, but modern theravadist schools typically focus on vipassana/samadhi and metta meditation, with occasional focuses on defilements and related topics to unground people. To modern theravadists, the jhanas and attempting to reach them can be seen as unnecessary attachment to sensory experience, rather than focusing on detachment.

In the past Buddhism was hostile to other beliefs, hence suttas and sutras which characterise Jains and others as misguided and ignorant. This is because Buddhism arose at a time of great religious change in India, and was one of several competing strains of belief and thought. Thus discrediting those groups became part of early doctrine, it helped build a stronger core of belief to unite around against the competing groups. This is why modern monks typically are more open and ecumenical than before, now these different forms of thought are no longer threats to one another, and rather help inform each other and grow as they interact.

A good example of this has been the last couple of threads where I asked about differences between various schools these days to better select one as a core to study (specifically Thai forest, theravada, and dhammakaya) and the only answers I got were basically 'Looking at the differences is missing what you should be taking in. The core of all of them is the same.' Focusing on the surface level discrepancies between them doesn't help you detach. When you pick a school, you associate yourself with it, and thus build another brick into your so-called identity. Detachment should be pulling that identity down, not solidify it.
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>>37233027
Sorry
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>>37198795
I once met a Buddhist monk when on vacation in Asia and he said this to me
>"Amitabha, Amitabha brother, let me help you. Those riches you carry have too much bad karma. I'll help you resolve it, just give them to me. If not I will be forced to end your life to save you from further suffering and accumulating more bad karma"
What did he mean by that?
Pic related is him btw.
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>>37232889
how 2 into consort
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Is the Yin Yang balance in the body influenced by mundane everyday actions? For example is this a true statement: a sedentary and passive NEET accumulates more Yin and less Yang than an olympic athlete. Assuming no spiritual practice is involved.
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>>37233634
>Yin Yang balance in the body influenced by mundane everyday actions
mundane everyday actions are influenced by yin yang balance, due to the impulses arising internally in the 5 sense organs
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>>37233151
That was probably Maitreya coming down to fuck with people again. He's been getting bored waiting for Buddhism to die out. Next time this happens just say "Guanyin is fed up with your antics" then he'll shake his fist and scamper away.
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>>37233820
That is helpful, thank you very much. I am interested in ways of monitoring the inner yin yang balance. Following from you've said, is a shift in our daily impulses reflective of a shift in our balance of Yin and Yang?
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>>37233986
Yin and yang are in fluid motion throughout the day, there's charts in TCM for that (although that too is just a general notion). Each of the internal organs can have different imbalance states, depending on that you can get physical, mental or spiritual effects that follow yin or yang patterns.
Everything is interconnected, the Dao of the external phenomena is a reflection of the internal phenomena, etc. But someone versed in neigong and internal cultivation may be able to direct you more than I am, I just observe stuff.
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>>37233910
Wait... I had a great idea just now. How about we purposefully try to suppress buddhism or turn it into complete materialist nonsense to quicken the coming of Maitreya Buddha?
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>>37233986
One other thing, you can... increase the body's natural capacity to carry energy, through either practice or non-practice or what you want to call this whole process.
So if you are mindful in everyday life, over time, this can have "permanent" results for the purposes of reporting as the organs realign themselves to be closer to their primordial state
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What is the difference if any between Janna and samadhi?
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>>37234589
Absorption and ecstasy. Essentially while samadhi/vipassana can help focus you to a single point, it is only 'surface level'. Using them to focus until you start blocking out other stimuli can eventually get to the point where you stop registering them, and start feeling a sense of ecstasy which is subtly different depending what jhana you enter.
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>>37234661
So Jana is superior mindfulness to samadhi? Because you're still attached to the senses? Am I getting it?
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>>37234722
>>37234661
There is a difference between samadhi and shamatha.
Samadhi is, in yogic lingo, a certain state of awareness. It can be with form (sarvikalpa) or without form (nirvikalpa).
Jhanas are also classified as with form and without form, but they are more like aspects of/degrees of samadhi.

In the unexcelled samadhi, there is not much of an experience (of ecstasy or anything), and no experiencer. It is increasingly subtle awareness.
Some highly skilled, rare meditators can remain in samadhi for years, perhaps even indefinitely. In that state, the processes in the body come to a halt, without death.
Whereas jhana eventually ends.
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>>37234748
So I'm Zen. If I wanted to make an aim like a raft should I aim for Jana or samadhi? I already maintain samadhi in daily activities and can cycle thru the Janas. I can stay in Nirvana for a few seconds to a minute

I'm on the Bodhisattva path so I'm also wondering am I allowed to enter Nirvana? I didn't take the vow to delay my Enlightenment but to liberate all sentient beings. Can this be done if I let myself enter Nirvana?

When I thought it goes against my vow the Mindstream wouldn't let me enter Nirvana but sometimes I'd hear a voice saying it was okay
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>>37234823
>I can stay in Nirvana for a few seconds to a minute
Nirvana isn't a place or time my brother, nor is there a you in there.
I suggest just being present and letting the concepts be for a bit until you find a suitable teacher for you.
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>>37234844
There is non-abiding Nirvana. I need a teacher and haven't read as many sutras as you intellectuals. I just heard the voice of the Elohim saying this is Nirvana and then it went away. Then the Gospel song I was just listening to said
>Every high thing must come down

Maybe you are the high thing. I is just a figure of speech
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>>37234119
What you've brought up makes sense and aligns with what I've been seeing in my research so far. I will keep an eye out for these charts.
>>37234252
>So if you are mindful in everyday life, over time, this can have "permanent" results for the purposes of reporting as the organs realign themselves to be closer to their primordial state
I think this was the one thing which is not clear to me. I assume you are saying my "reporting" ability, my capability to monitor my yin yang balance, will develop if I practice mindfulness?
Thanks for the thought, time and effort.
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One time I was really hungry and all there was in my house was pic related. This was when I was in a Buddhist state of mind but not fully Buddhist.

I knew I shouldn't eat it but I microwaved it anyway. As soon as I took a bite I had a vision of an emaciated undead chicken and it tasted like eating a dead animal. Then the voice of the Buddha said, "This which you just ate is more of a demon than an animal," due to how it was raised.

did not eat the rest lmao
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>>37235116
I think in the higher levels of practice, you increase total yang and make yin follow yang, that way your total sum of energy increases. There's balance if both are supported, but too little of both is also an imbalance that can go unchecked.
But really, just being mindful is enough and then you can notice which way the body wants to bend to accomplish a certain movement. The original qigong was like that until it became codified into different systems.
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>>37235353
But the essence of the Tao is that the weak (yin) conquers the strong (yang)
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>>37235361
Yang (light) is born out of Yin (darkness), Yin follows Yang.
The softness is related to the body more, the perfect cultivation body is soft like a baby's, or like a green tree, which has the greatest energetic potential.
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How do I stop wanting to eat buddbros?
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I can't stop craving ritalin even though I will never have it
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>>37235751
Im assuming you mean in excess...

But with any desire what you have to is cultivate Right View. Look at what the desire actually is, an amalgamation of sensations that interact dynamically with the 5 aggregates. As with any sensation or phenomena, notice the three marks of existence in it (specially anicca, impermanence). Hold your sensation as it truly is, without projection. Wisdom lies in not indulging, but not suppressing, either. Accept the craving as it is, and like all phenomena, it will eventually cease.

When dealing with the dynamic of indulgence and aversion I like to give the following analogy: Imagine you have a rope and are tugging with one hand in one direction, this is you trying to indulge and satisfy desire. The fool tries to escape this by tugging at it from the other end, this is aversion (also a desire). What you have to do is let go at both ends and emancipate yourself from desire itself.
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>>37235751
You're meant to find this middle way. Eating too much or too little is not the path of Enlightenment.

But if you mean you're eating too much, say Om and target in your mind the desire for eating, clearing your mind with an outgoing breath. You should feel a little puff of air go with the sacred syllable in your brain to eradicate your desire. You can actually do this to all thoughts. This was my natural method I discovered when I was 18. But some say you should let the thoughts flow. Otherwise you'll be like South Park Buddha on cocaine saying Om every 5 seconds
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>>37235983
I do this to my v2k. Should this thought FLOW?
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>>37235976
>>37235983
Yeah I meant too much guys sorry. I’m 5”8 and 176lbs I’m not fat but I don’t feel like I’m at my best. I feel like I can’t be at peace unless my form is a certain way. I eat way too much junk food and my desire for sugar is too much.
>>
>>37236021
Well you shouldn't care about this body which will decay. The Tibetans let their body be dined upon by vultures. This differs from the Glorious Resurrection of the Abrahamic faith

So don't do it for bodily form, which is attachment (property or affliction), but for the middle way.

Do it as an exercise in the Tao
>>
>>37236021
The best advice I can give apart from this is >>37235976
is that you have so much to learn from just witnessing your desire, as it is. Do not try to run away from it or indulge in it. Try to understand what is your EXACT phenomenological experience when you feel the desire to eat junk-food or whatever. This will probably only be truly effective if you have familiarity with the whole concept of the skandhas and the tilakhanna, etc. And this will be effortless if you do satipatthana/vipassana daily, which is basically doing this >>37235976 but with any and all phenomena that pop-up during meditation.
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>>37236036
I agree, but I feel like you need to maintain a certain amount of health to be able to observe mindfully. Obviously buddhists didn’t have to worry about it back in the day as they were quite fit thanks to pilgrimages and the like but with nowadays lifestyle being so sedentary I feel as though it is necessary.obviously I know I’ve got a long way to go until I can be detached but I want to. :)
>>
>>37236036
Also I’m fine with my body being eaten, it’s more like I don’t want my body to be unnatural.
>>
>>37236133
What do you mean by unnatural? How does this relate to eating?

You are not far from the Kingdom
>>
>>37236152
St. Peter reigning over MAYA
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>>37236152
Like hormones, processed food, micro plastics, artificial sugars ect. I feel like being in peak physical condition (that you can reach naturally) & eating a natural diet is helpful on a journey to spiritual fulfilment.
>>
I will always find it funny that so called Buddhists cannot explain why I should want to be Buddhist or why they do.
>>
>>37236201
You have seen through our facade anon, well done.
>>
>>37236201
I feel spiritually dearth when surrounded by excess and wealth. People’s desires, my own desires genuinely depress me. When I practice Buddhist thought I feel spiritually at peace and fulfilled. You just have to be a certain kind of person. No one is urging you to be Buddhist. Everyone will reach enlightenment eventually.
>>
>>37236188
Yeah but when you get attached to New Age "health" you can be in samsara

When I was Catholic I was obsessed with drinking herbal fruit smoothies and this devolved or developed into literally making tonics with hot lube I mean holy oil
>>
>>37236201
Alan Watts zazen which I follow says one should meditate because it's fun and then the Mindstream takes it from there imo

Another topic, i believe in Jungian synchronicity and am good at the Tarot. I pay attention to signs with piety like Jung said and the world becomes my guru.

Someone quoted a monk who said you should desire Nirvana like building a raft and then rid yourself of the raft once you reach the other shore.

But my way is to let the Jungian Mindstream take you thru the stream while sitting in zazen because it's fun
>>
>>37236248
I understand that, but I just feel as though modernity has ruined our ability to be spiritual. And I want to live righteously, which I feel was a lot more achievable when the world was less processed. I don’t want to consume anything artificial. And I want my body to be strong and lithe, like a hunter gatherer. Idk honestly just think I could “live well” if I was born 1500+ years ago.
>>
>>37236267
What do you all think of the last line there?

I know most of you are Theravada so you read Scripture
>>
>>37236269
Maybe you're developing a new form of Aryan Buddhism. Consider Hercules as the Black Sun that natures the Planet
>>
>>37236271
I stopped reading after he mentioned Alan Watts.
>>
>>37236269
There's a lot to be said for the Aristotelian notion of Virtue as the mean, matching to the Buddha's Middle Way.

The Buddha is pictured as obese because he is so full of flourishing. Maybe you want to flourish like a Grecco-Aryan Black Sun instead

Just trying to spark some ideas, let me know if you like them

I think wanting (desiring) the body to be strong is Satan though.

I can't speak on diet though because I still eat meat out of convenience. I'm sure eliminating meat from your diet would take a lot of processed stuff out, though then you wouldn't have a body like a "hunter-gatherer."

Be a gatherer of nectar
>>
>>37236279
Yeah, don’t get me wrong I like and appreciate Buddhism and do believe in a lot of its claims and practices however ultimately I want to create my own system to satisfy me spiritually. I feel like you cannot satisfy your spirit without satisfying your body and mind. And you cannot satisfy your mind without body. (And I also feel like you cannot satisfy your body without being aware of your spirit’s ache)
>>
okay this thread got really retarded
>>
>>37236291
I'm that poster, The Way of Zen got me into Buddhism. I think it's all that is necessary to enter the Mindstream and reach Nirvana. I reached samadhi soley thru Alan Watts and saying Om with the outgoing breath. In 4 seconds out 8 seconds, Om.

Bodhi swarta
>>
>>37236300
When I say strong I mean in terms of wholeness if that makes sense (rather than powerful). Like I want to breath well, run well, sleep well, ect.

This is what I mean, with the meat thing. I want to eat meat, I think that it is normal and natural. However I don’t like eating current meat because it is not that - it is not of nature. We didn’t hunt it and kill it ourselves. I don’t even OWN the animal it came from. I didn’t domesticate it or anything like that. Also I don’t like animals suffering unnecessarily.

Thanks though, I’ll look up the black subs I’m a bit of a newbie to all theory stuff (although I have ocd and ruminate so I’ve developed my own belief system after years of introspection). The core tenant of my belief is “to reduce harm wherever possible”. It’s not utilitarianism due to some other stuff, but yeah.
>>
>>37236314
Im glad it worked for you, but I would rather read scripture or commentary from more authoritative sources. Im sure people have gotten enlightened from listening to Eckhart Tolle too. Hope you get there in the end either way, friend.
>>
>>37236342
*suns lol.
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>>37236307
Coming from Catholicism and the hypostatic union, that the earthly body is sufficient for Christ, the Buddhist let's get fed upon by vultures sometimes spellbinds me

>>37236313
What don't you like about it? That I mentioned Hercules? Hercules/Vajrapani is the Guardian of the Buddha. It is good for the Aryan sprit to read Me.

And Hercules is the Black Sun, which conquers MAYA, illusion, by reversing the Mana-dominance of the Demiurgus.

That is because Hercules is the Guardian ABRAXAS, the Winged Disk

The guy wants to be a /for/ Buddhist and we are operating 4chan thru an Aryan World Spirit so I suggested Vijrapani/Hercules as an Aristotelian model for a Middle Way which respects the body

He wants to respect the body and that is Christlike. Maybe it is heresy but I want to help him in Buddhamind. Even if the Tibetans wouldn't like the idea of developing the body and spirit together on a Grecco-Aryan Aristotelian model of Hercules/Vanrapani

Sorry though for making you look retarded
>>
>>37236357
Its retarded because him wanting to be healthy is not anti-buddhist. Unless you have a stupidly poor understanding of what tanha means and you think buddhism is about letting your body rot in the sun because any inclination or motivation is "desire" and therefore "wrong".

Yes, if he obsesses with his physical fitness that would be antithetical to the path, but just wanting to be healthy is fucking fine. (all that stuff about unnatural plastics or whatever is neither here nor there, nor does it relate to buddhism anyway).
>>
>>37236357
Yeah I wanna be a /fit/ Buddhist lol. I respect Buddhism a lot for its mindful practices but I feel as though I cannot be mindful without having peace with my body. Like The Buddha’s earlier teachings speak to me so much, clearly I probably have some mental health/body issues but I feel if I worked out a belief system that was essentially /fit/ Buddhism I could finally feel some spiritual satisfaction. I’m becoming a non-secular person, and those aspects of Buddhism have helped me a lot too.
>>
>>37236348
As an 18 year old it taught me enough about zazen, which sees the formlessness of MAYA, and doesn't conceptually grasp illusionary properties (attachments), to sit long enough to enter a formless samadhi. The Way of Zen does not require Scripture (but Scripture is fine!, as long as it's not over-intelletualized) because it sees no-Mind in emptiness.

Once you realize the name is a conventional symbol, and the thing in itself is essentially a mystical idol,
>NAMING IS THE ORIGIN OF ALL PARTICULAR THINGS
You can just sit in zazen and meditate on emptiness and reach samadhi.

Thanks for your good wishes. Some sutras can't be understood by the ignorant due to the swirl of their Dharma. The Way of Zen sufficiently introduces the Western Audience to zazen enough to allow them to reach Nirvana solely based on the notion of emptiness

Of course as one gets more advanced it is helpful to "build the raft," as the saying goes, out of Dharmic concepts. But
>THE NAME THAT CAN BE NAMED IS NOT THE ETERNAL NAME!

BTW what do you think of the autocorrect in pic related coming from someone who's a TI?
>>
>>37213402
>A person with severe depression is suffering, yet they may have no motivations or desires.
I think they do have desires, but their pain from this desires is so all-encompassing that the feel of carving is shadowed by that pain.
>>
>>37236399
>>37236407
But he's saying he wants to be /fit/ when the Tibetans teach that essentially the body is always already in decay, a corpse even. Or am I being heretical and assuming?

It's the plastic environmentalist shit that has me worried aside from muscular fitness. You're right it's an ASIDE from Buddhist practice but not ASIDE from HIS DESIRES
>>
>>37236410
As a severely depressed person (who is getting a lot better thanks to Buddhist thought) I have a desire - it’s a desire to feel motivated.
>>
>>37236407
Same poster about Hercules but I think Buddhist Wisdom says to not care about the body

Not saying don't be healthy and not saying health is contrary to Buddhamind
>>
>>37236418
Don’t you think though that Buddhism (all religious/spiritual thought really) was so prevalent and accessible in centuries past because our planet remained relatively the same throughout the millennias? Like I look at our buildings, our way of life, technology and its ability to destroy a persons mind and it makes me all so depressed. The DISTRACTION of the modern world has made it all so unhappy for me. I feel disgust when I see an over indulgence of wealth. Of excess. I just quit my job to live in the country because I cannot stand modernity anymore. I want to be self-sufficient. I genuinely think technology and industry has ruined our connection to humanity/god/the spiritual you name it.
>>
>>37204439
Well, as far as I understand, kamma is intention realised in actions. Even if this intention is directed to dream-like entity, the seed of this intention stay in your mind no matter what.
So lucid dream kamma is definitely effective, but in common dream one has little control over themselves, so I'm not sure about this.
>>
>>37236427
I thought of a good way to explain it. You know how Buddhist’s shave their head to let go of their ego/worldly desires? That’s what I want to do for the entirety of my body if that makes sense. I want to be physically “clean” so I can be spiritually “clear.”
>>
>>37236451
Same guy. I agree with what you say. I live in mental health housing on Disability so I have no earthly fetters aside from the gangstalkers who put me there with their neural weapons.

To your affliction of the body with the property of muscle I give you this verse from the Dhammapada. The Dhammapada cannot be blasphemed if you want to go to heaven:
>202. There is no fire like passion; there is no losing throw like hatred; there is no pain like this body; there is no happiness higher than rest.

Would you ever consider becoming a monk? It seems like that's the sort of life you're after. But then you'd eat (healthy) vegetables and no work out routine.

I'm sure Hercules will support your body without you having to think about it.

I Love this conversation because you are earnestly in Spirit, and earnestness is
>The pathway to Immortality
The Dhammapada
>>
>>37236484
That is the path to Nirvana

I don't have this worry but I wouldn't want you to become a Californian health-crazed "mushroom-buddha!"
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>>37236496
Nah I don’t want to do that lol. That stuff is also unnatural and a byproduct of an over-indulgence of the self. I don’t want to be fit for vain reasons I want to be fit so I can forget about it lol
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>>37236511
I think the Buddha will make you fit thru Buddhamind
>>
The environmentalist health-crazed rebellion from Industry is a liberal New Age Luciferianism of the Left Hand Path in direct similitude with excessive emaciation and in direct contrast with excessive consumption, which is Right-wing
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>>37236487
I would consider becoming a monk yes. I think you’ve overestimated my attachment to muscle (or I’ve just engaged in hyperbole lol) - the body you get living a monk lifestyle is something I would like. My only concern is I desire a family and I like love and creating art. I would love to live on and assists monks at a Monastery and create artworks for them but yeah.

Yeah I’m trying to be earnest I genuinely am just at a point where I want to be the best possible person (and human) I can be, I desire nothing more than to live well and righteously. And I recognise my desire to be righteous is a bit at ends with Buddhism. Which is why I feel the need to create my own belief system bc I don’t think I’ll ever feel satisfied with following one teaching completely (for example I think Buddha and Jesus are both worthy of respect)
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>>37236418
Im gonna calm down and stop with the retardation claims, I am just as ignorant.

But here, impermanence is literally the first mark of existence. Accepting that our body is decaying is apt. Realizing that we are not the body is apt. It does not follow that wanting to be fit is inherently wrong. It depends on your state of mind. If wanting to be fit is the nexus of an obsessive desire which accentuates identification with the body, aversion to it, or otherwise, then yes. The state of mind must be changed. But tanha does not mean "literally any type of inclination or preference", thats why the word "desire" is a bad translation.

You can have a preference for the color blue and buy yourself a blue shirt and youre not participating in tanha. If we follow your logic, then why even eat? Why not just let the body rot in the sun if its already doing so anyway?
>>
I need info on the Drukpa Clan to learn the Black Vajroli technique. Even the Siva Sanhita edition that I bought banned this section (fuckin moral fags). I don't care about nirvana/Moksha. I'm just interested in either achieving the primordial state of Rigveda Siddhis of the Rishis (they never cared for escapist Samsara) and go into the Vedas Realm or the Asura realm or as an entity in Naraka.
>>
>>37236564
Also, I would like to add that there are definitely sects that would say that exercise itself should be avoided (specially theravadins), but its more of a monastic situation to help lessen attachment. You dont HAVE to follow suit, like you dont HAVE to go sit in a cave for 30 days. Do not confuse the methods for the teachings.
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>>37236564
>Why even eat
I guess because it's the Middle Way.

I'm gonna pull an Abrahamic move and converge the Buddhas message on the body with St. Paul's, which is apt because Hercules-anon says he respects Jesus:
>For bodily exercise profiteth little: but godliness is profitable unto all things, having promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come.

This Discourse proves the Buddha's teaching, to Hercules' benefit, is not contrary to awful respect for Jesus.

Thru the Dharma
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>>37236418
Tantric practice is based on using the body as a means of achieving enlightenment because the body and mind are inseparable, mind is just vayu moving through the channels, that's what makes it a quicker path
>>
>>37236664
Oh okay. I know nothing about this. So thank you! I was just going off the Tibetan Book of the Dead, getting eaten by vultures, and how there is no pain like this body
>>
Is the Magic of Vajrayana by Ken McLeod a good book to learn Vajrayana practices for Magickal use?
>>
>>37233151
lol
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>>37232997
Do as you please
>>
>The Vajrasattva mantra is also known as the 100 Syllable Mantra. It is typically repeated 100,000 times with the goal of purifying the karma of the individual reciting it.
>” Before any confession, arousing the bodhichitta of intention and application is indispensable. The Buddha taught that confessing your evil deeds and downfalls without arousing bodhichitta, even though you might apply the four powers, will reduce your faults but not purify them altogether. Sincerely giving rise to bodhichitta, however, will of itself purify all past misdeeds, whatever they might be. “
>” If you stay undistracted and do not mix your recitation with ordinary speech, to say the hundred syllable mantra one hundred and eight times without interruption will undoubtedly purify all your evil actions and obscurations, and all violations and breaches of vows and samayas. Such is Vajrasattva’s promise. “
>>
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Take a look at my pineal gland lmao
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>>37234823
Dont say that you can "stay in nirvana" while it's not true. You generate heavy negative karma by lying like that
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>>37238056
>>37237955
Why would I lie? Look at my pineal gland

Don't envy Me
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>>37198795
>actually reads and familiarises himself
>no certainty for 4nt and 8fp whatsoever to the point it might as well be a made up later addition by some outsider (which was common with buddhist and zem texts)
so how's it feel to be a moron who slanders the way and ruins peoples' life because of willful ignorance
>inb4 u retardo
so it made you enlightened then right and you haven't been stuck for ages at all
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>>37204800
your teacher is an abusive narcissistic retard
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>>37208139
no dude youre a fucking moron
they say don't want it because that's already implying you don't have access to it
meditation obviously is garbage
but if you don't realize any of this immediately, the thing you need to do to is just focusing on a single thing
like your goddamn fucking ignorance
>>
>>37237955
>>37238208
>>37238220
Please get out of here.
>>
>>37236201
You should want to be a Buddhist because you don't want to suffer. I am a Buddhist because I don't want to suffer.
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>>37238296
stfu moron
seriously kys with your garbage kike religion
all youre doing is harming people because you were too fucking stupid and egotistical to actually bother investigating and understanding the shit you wanna use to make yourself look better
typical christian moron shit
>>
>>37238300
By Skillful Means this anon starts with the desire to not suffer and is led into no-Self
>>
>>37234823
no youre not
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>>37238320
I'm not what? Zen?
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>>37232889
dzogchen is retard shit
>>
>>37236579
Would you even be able to go those realms when you give no shit about morals nor accumulating merits
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>>37236587
Although the Buddha stayed in the Magatha region, he walked a lot, which must explain his health, and exercise to maintain good health is not unacceptable.
>>
>>37238324
you dont even respect it enough to actually read the source texts
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>>37238309
Are you on any drugs?
>>
>>37238342
I'm working my way at my own pace. I just said you can get to samadhi with just the Way of Zen

I don't even sit that much I mostly meditate lying down before I sleep

I respect the texts I just don't respect youthful over-intellectualization

My point is Zen allows one to reach Nirvana without concepts
>>
reminder: the average buddhist is literally retarded and people used to be absolutely retarded in the past as well, and what these buddhists are talking about is their misinterpretation of misinterpretations of retards in the past which is why they're such arrogant insufferable cunts
>>
>>37238345
go fuck yourself dude
>>
>>37238353
none of the claims you made had anything to do with zen whatsoever
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>>37238342
But you're right I ought to have more respect. I am just starting to cultivate respect for the Buddha. I really take everything I've been given for granted. One can never repay the Buddha

If you mean I'm speaking heresy and disrespecting the religion by not reading all the sutras in OP then please educate us

>>37238362
I think the over-intellectualization here is part of the arrogance this Anon talks about

There is no ignorance nor cessation of ignorance
>>
>>37238371
fuck off dude youre part of those arrogant insufferable cunts
>>
>>37238368
Bodhisattva path? Is that what you're on about?

Form is emptiness and emptiness is form. This is what I'm teaching. Theravada kids here seem to preach Dharma-form

But the Name that can be Named is not the Eternal Name, and the Dharma that can be preached is no Dharma
>>
>>37238371
exactly this
just look at this shit
>i dont know
>im still learning
>i need to show more respect
>also the way is this
how would you know
you clearly haven't had any experience whatsoever so all you did was parrot some morons who told you trust me bro without even checking or considering they might be fucking wrong and retarded af
>>
>>37238375
I'm not arrogant at all I just wanted everyone to see my huge pineal gland because I did Tinna Tinh's beauty mantra on YouTube last night lol
>>
>>37238379
why are you teaching when youre an ignorant fucking asshole
>>
>>37234589
Jhana samathi (or samatha) means "tranquillity" in Pali, and refers to the practice of concentrating the mind on a single object, such as the breath, a mantra, an image or a positive quality. The aim is to overcome the five obstacles to concentration: sensual desire, ill will, dullness, restlessness and doubt. By doing this, the meditator can enter states of mental absorption called jhanas, which are characterized by joy, happiness, equanimity and mindfulness. There are eight jhanas, divided into four material jhanas and four immaterial jhanas, each with a higher level of refinement than the previous one. The practice of jhana samathi can lead to states of peace and bliss, but it is not enough to eradicate suffering and ignorance.

Vipassana means "clear vision" or "insight" in Pali, and refers to the practice of observing the mind and phenomena with mindfulness and wisdom. The aim is to understand the three characteristics of all reality: impermanence, unsatisfactoriness and the absence of a self. In doing so, the meditator can develop compassion, renunciation, equanimity and liberation. The practice of vipassana can be done analytically, contemplating the four noble truths, the twelve links of dependent origination, the five aggregates, the eighteen elements, the twenty-two realms, the four applications of mindfulness, etc. Or it can be done directly, by observing the sensation, perception, mental formation and consciousness that arise and disappear in each moment. The practice of vipassana can lead to the realization of nirvana, the state of cessation of suffering and ignorance.
>>
>>37238386
I have direct experience of higher states of awareness

My whole point about Zen is it doesn't require a conceptual tradition. That's why students are registered as learned thru koans
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>>37238396
moron take
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>>37238400
you dont have shit and everything you spout is ignorant bs
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>>37238392
Bingo! The Dharma that can be preached is no-Dharma... Exactly as this one (won) has said
>>
>>37238407
There is no form to be ignorant of
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>>37238409
great more ignorant rddt tier shit
>>
>>37238366
Anon, you're getting in the way of me answering the other anons' questions, so be quiet if you have nothing to say.
>>
>>37238417
that's bs read a fucking book moron

>>37238423
youre a pos dude go fuck yourself
>>
>>37238420
It's the Diamond Sutra and like I said there's no cessation of ignorance (Heart Sutra)

BTW anyone who preaches the diamond Sutra gets inconceivable merit, which explains why I reach Nirvana while you are lame (in your next rebirth)

Don't blaspheme the holy Spirit next time

in ignorance
>>
>>37233151
Based monkbro kek
>>
>>37238426
You're exactly the problem.

Heart Sutra, there is no ignorance or cessation of ignorance > emptiness is no other than form and form is no other than emptiness.

All properties are afflictions
>>
>>37238429
#winning
>>
>If you do not understand the great principle, even if you pass through Buddha's belly you're just a walking piece of crap. Never having met a good person, you readily accept the scenery at the doors of the six senses, spouting cliches as if they were mysterious words and marvelous sayings, colorful and fresh, without having any attainment of your own - it's just the snivel and drool of other people.

.

>Most important of all, don't fold your hands and pretend to be a Chan teacher, looking for a place to appear in public, talking cleverly to seduce the younger generation in hopes of getting people to call you an Elder. Totally alienated from your real self, you only know a flood of subjective consciousness, hoking up oddities day and night, never ceasing, claiming famous names, titles, and heritage. I am not one of your gang: If I see a great master failing to discern good and bad, I criticize him for it.

.

>See how many phony "masters" there are, degenerating daily over a long, long time. They are like human dung carved into sandalwood icons; ultimately there is just the smell of crap.

.

>You devils with small faculties and no knowledge, how dare you carelessly open your mouth?

>>37238429
>>37238435
>>37238439
>>37238423
>>37238417
imagine being this much of a pos
>>
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>>37232997
The Greco-Roman image of the Buddha is simply beautiful
>>
>>37238451
According to Paul Harrison, the Diamond Sūtra's central argument here is that "all dharmas lack a self or essence, or to put it in other words, they have no core ontologically, they only appear to exist separately and independently by the power of conventional language, even though they are in fact dependently originated".
>>
>>37238461
so?
>>
Anons, don't feed the troll
>>
>>37238472
literal moron
>>
>>37238472
thís guy doesn't expose the core of their argument because they know it's fucking retarded and he knows hes gonna get fucking embarrassed for it
>>
>>37238478
No I'm serious there is a Zen practice I derive from Alan Watts which says since form is emptiness and emptiness is form, concepts are fetters.

I see your critique that I'm a dung-master very poignant but I can't help but wonder if the Theravada has you too attached to conceptual route knowledge of sutras
>>
>>37238486
I'm not saying not to derive wisdom from sutras. I guess you nail me here because in practice I only reasonably understand the diamond sutra

So I told the diamond sutra here (to accumulate merit to be honest) and they called it reddit tier garbage

I'm quoting sutras verbatim though and my ego isn't involved so what don't you like, other than the essence of Zen?
>>
>>37238499
Anons blasphemy of the diamond sutra shocks the conscience
>>
>>37238486
>>37238499
alan watts was a moron who fucked children when he was still married and died of alcoholism
>>
>>37238504
Ok so you're just using ad hominem against me. What's wrong with what I say about form and Dharma being ultimately empty (dependently originated)?

If Dharma is vesseless then route knowledge of Sutras doesn't bring stream entry
>>
>At the present time, of the party of perverse teachers, most take “silence-asillumination” stillness-sitting as an ultimate dharma, misleading younger students. I don’t fear making enemies of them. I vigorously scold them in order to repay the kindness of the buddhas, and to rescue beings from the con-men of this end-time of the dharma.

.

>They fervently close the eyes and assume the appearance of death. They call it "stillness-sitting", "mind-contemplation" and "silence-as-illumination". In turn they take this perverse view and use it to lead mediocrities, saying: "If you can attain stillness [in sitting] for one day, that's one day's gonfu"

.

>Students of one type make up rationales on their own and express things on their own, advancing and withdrawing, raising their fists and joining their palms, thinking this to be the way

.

>This is of no benefit to people. For your own part, in all your activities twenty-four hours a day your mind will stick to things; when you see people, you only want to seduce them, wagging your tail, pointing to one thing and talking about another. In the eyes and in speech unable to see in actuality, you just want to use imitative sayings to check understandings.

>How am I different from you? Don't take the glibness of the moment and wind up ingesting others' poison, becoming like greedy whores with no morals, blind baldies and herds of sheep-like monks perverting other people and leading them into hell.
>>
>>37238499
You don't need to justify yourself, this Anon is a troll, he doesn't belong here, keep getting merits by answering Anon, please, thank you.
>>
>>37238509
thread already addressed you low tier garbage troll
>>
>>37238514
stay mad you literal moron
>>
>>37238516
Please relieve our ignorance, if possible!
(I-I guess not)
>>
>>37238522
text here alr addresses false teachers and sheeplike monks like you still believing them > >>37238512 so no ad hoc..

it also talk about fake teachers without morals not being capable of explaing here > >>37238451 so again not ad hoc

ad hoc is obviously also not a logical fallacy in every single instance which you would know if you weren't an absolute fucking moron

stay mad midwit
>>
>>37238529
I said ad hominem douchebag
>>
>>37238551
I speak by the holy spirit and you >>37238529 don't
>>
>>37238551
more random sounds without meaning no wonder nobody listens to you or understands anything you say
you just leave people confused by using big words you dont understand
>>
>>37238559
Exactly, this is exactly my point. The holy spirit showed it to you
>>
>>37238564
exactly my point
how long are you gonna stay mad
>>
>>37238559
What big word did I use? Form? Nirvana?

You're just mad at the equation of Alan Watts as a teacher sufficient for Nirvana, and the suggestion that someone on this forum, "just like you," could reach it.

When it seems so out of reach when all you do is memorize big Sanskrit words

I need to think about this critique that I'm a dung-plower though
>>
>>37238569
Is this a bot? Lol?

Did you just hack my brain?

You're just trolling I guess. Or no?
>>
>>37238575
>nuu muh mastah muh pedos muh alan watts sex predator alcoholic
stay attached then madfuck
>>
>>37238579
I have no idea what the man did later in life all I know is the Way of Zen gave me
1) samadhi in my daily activities (samadhi never leaves you)
2) non-Abiding Nirvana averaging about 7 seconds which I can commit to at will

CAPTCHA: NAAU
>>
>>37238583
see
not zen at all
>>
>>37238600
checked but I don't understand. NAAU
>>
>>37238612
stay mad midwit
>>
>>37238618
You blasphemed the holy Ghost just now
>>
I'm just perplexed. What part of samadhi and Nirvana are not Zen?

And what is your reason for being here?
>>
>>37238622
>People like this cannot be all told of. They just leave their teachers’ heritage without any insight of their own. Having no basis upon which to rely, their restless consciousness is unclear. They are only to be pitied, but it is hard to inform them of this.
>>
>>37238631
stay mad
disrespectful intolerant cunt
>>
>>37238634
Okay that struck a chord. Hard to tell me this definitely I can see

So you think Alan Watts is a heretic? Or is it even more subtle?
>>
>>37238649
fuck off
>>
>If, however, people have no experience of the doctrines of the teachings, it is hard to break through discrimination and subjectivity. Galloping right views over wrong roads, mixing inconsistencies into important meanings, they delude people of the following generations and inanely enter into vicious circles.
>>
>>37238653
It's a public forum and the green text is causing me to discern. Thanks for the green text

Are we sure you're not just being grumpy Theravada doctrinists hating on Zen?

My notion that Zen is about the "Dharma of formlessness" is being called into question by the green text, but I realize the Diamond Sutra

Why does it seem like Alan Watts was saying exactly what the Diamond Sutra says about emptiness and negation and concepts?

Concepts are just conventional tools used to grasp at a formless void

That's a pretty decent Zen saying I just came up with. I don't say this to pay tribute to "my Self" but just to continue the Discourse in honesty
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>>37238674
mate if you're not gonna read what i say just fuck off
>>
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Please, those of you who haven't had your questions answered, please do so in the next thread, those of you who think we're not Buddhist enough, please go to the nearest Sangha.
>>
>>37238686
go fuck yourself
wouldn't know a buddha is he hit you in the fucking face
>>
>>37238660
You don't like Zen = the teaching of formlessness thru sitting meditation?

That is the essence of what I take from Watts, but the green text is making me realize it's my foundation. But you're right maybe that my foundation should be the sutras.

So I'm trying to adapt what Watts says to the Diamond and Heart sutras, which I know well.

Hopefully this is productive for others here so that the hate is misguided
>>
>>37238696
stay mad
>>
>>37238681
Are you the same guy, doing the green text (I am reading it and considering it with the holy Ghost) and saying Alan Watts rapes children?

Is this really to be taken seriously?

Tell me directly how you respond to
>>37238696
Other than "stay mad"
>>
>>37238693
based
>>
>>37238707
stay mad fuckwit
>lok at me so awahu
>wait that's you
sO EnLiGhtEnEd
i can see why you think everyone should listen to you on matters regarding zen, buddhism, enlightenment and which people are legit
>>
I promise my ego isn't involved in the teaching. I see that learning from a single source can be an error according to the green text. But what if Watts grasps the formlessness of Dharma and conveys it thru the non-conceptual vehicle? Then my raft is sound. I just have an addiction to teaching others. So this has carried over from my philosophy study to my Zen practice. Though I'm not learned in the Sutras I feel I have sufficient discernment to post here.

Note also I'm getting hate due to a QUESTION I asked about samadhi while mentioning Watts helped me get to samadhi. Then others say I can't get to Nirvana blah blah but look at my massive pineal gland everybody
>>
>>37238727
see this is all they have
they get cornerdd and like petty emotionally immature reddit trolls they try to harass you in name of their religion
basically christians
this isn't something that only happens on occasion either
>>
>>37238716
No all I did was mention Watts helped me get to samadhi and non-Abiding Nirvana and you started calling me names based on perception of lineage

I wouldn't recommend Watts to an intermediate Buddhist practitioner but he was great as an introduction when I was 18. I'm 32 now.

There are many paths to the Dharma. That is the Lotus Sutra. I can say the same thing to you and it gets you to rebirth as a hungry ghost while I say the same thing to another and it helps them on the Path
>>
>>37238736
this
>>
>>37238736
All you're doing is saying
>You're cornered
>Stay mad
Without substantiating anything you say

Wtf? I'm perplexed. How old are you?
>>
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Does the OP accept image suggestions?
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>>37238738
>pedophiles are a good intro to buddhism
i mean with the state buddhism is in these days it isn't completely off ig
kinda makes sense that you would go from that guy to associating with corrupted buddhism
>>
>>37238753
A daimon told me to be Zen so Zen I shall be

Please don't call my Sutras corrupted Buddhism
>>
>>37238742
no youre stupid
completely different
>STOP CONFUSING ME!
>>
>>37238757
whatever you want you fucking pedophile supporter
want me to adorn and worship you too?
>>
>>37238761
Check em
>>
>>37238772
i don't owe you anything
stay mad
>>
>>37238772
That's a no

I think the Theravada kids just don't like Alan Watts

Check em I'm Krishna
>>
>>37238778
there they are
>>
>>37238777
That was Me
>>
>when you were supporting the troll in the conv and you didn't even realize
lmfao im sure you guys know all about buddhism tho and who is legit or not
jfc man fucking rddtors i swear
>>
>>37238803
Just because I think Alan Watts was legit doesn't mean I think I can discern every good teacher from every bad. You are obviously bad
>>
>>37238813
it's exactly what it means
>>
>>37238803
>When you realize you were supporting the troll in the conv and didn't even realize

Exactly my thought when I got trips and told YOU stay mad
>>
>>37238821
I know!
>>
>>37238822
this is buddhist behaviour?
was this in the pali or the lotus sutra?
>>
>>37238828
It's in my gigantic Pineal Gland
>>
>>37238827
>reminder this dude is over 30 years old
>>
>>37238835
Sorry you can't discern the holy spirit asshole
>>
>>37238834
> >>37238835
>>
>>37238839
>mommy I don't like Alan
>Does he touch you?
Exactly!
>>
>>37238849
>what ten years of dogmatism and meditation does to a man
>>
>>37238868
Now that's funny. See ya later friend
>>
>>37238877
stay mad
>>
>still no evidence for 8fp and 4nt whatsoever
>>
>>37238743
Suggestion accepted, new thread now that we've hit the bump limit: >>37239200
Hopefully less butthurt over there.
>>
>>37239207
Kek, thanks
>>
>>37234823
The levels of interpretation where things are meaningful - "le personage A said my personage B has permission to C" - are all really secondary to Dharma and to wisdom in general. Their main application is to help beings that are stuck interpreting everything as "meaningful or unimportant", a subtler form of "good or bad". Like "I like or I ignore" instead of "I love or I hate" - it's still all wrong view.
What I mean is, it can work as a gloss for some listeners, but doesn't do much more. If you were telling this kind of thing to a group with authority, mockery would be in order. Implying you may have been accepting advice from authority figures, who are unqualified to advice on the subjects they are to a ridiculous extent.

My suggestion is work on right view, or if you're interested in the Boddhisattva path, work on skilfull ways to tune in to (so you can recognize it better) and generate Boddhicitta also while listening to Dharma talks. And don't exclude yourself from it, not "le martyr I will help anyone but myself/that which is closest to me"; not that discriminant.

And find an IRL Sangha to visit, or do your background studies and work so you could conceivably join a Sangha at short notice if an opportunity were to arise. You can't always tell if people are just being polite to you and acting conservatively from reading text on a screen.
>>
>>37236036
>you shouldn't care about this body which will decay
This is false. It's not wrong action to keep a copy of the suttas in optimal condition if the impetus to do it is to preserve and let it keep propagating Dharma.
Same for the body. There are more good reasons to keep it than this one, and there are good reasons to not get rid of it - (re-)constituting a physical body is a lot of work, work that could also be spent on (other aspects of) Dharma.
>>
>>37236418
>the Tibetans teach that essentially the body is always already in decay, a corpse even. Or am I being heretical and assuming?
I've not heard this from Tibetans and, personally, I think that that'd be wrong view.
So I sure hope it'd be "assuming". I take it you don't read or speak Tibetan? I wouldn't accept such a statement in translation.
>>
>>37239490 (my post)
Let me take a few steps back and use fewer, more honest words:
>Is there anything counter to Dharma about having a body that is not prey to old age and death?
I put on my authoritative voice, but all I really have to do is ask the question:
>If there can be any way whatsoever to attain an immortal body through Dharmic practice only, then could doing so, necessarily and in all cases, be counter to Dharmic practice?
This is a more honest reasoning to present this idea by.



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