how sentient are plants?
Bumping for interest
>>38856438intriguing question.not so out there to the open minded.
>>38856463bumperino for the same reason
>>38856438Very
>>38856438Imagine if extraterrestrials started doing a screwed up thing where they "harvest" human zygotes(hundreds if not thousands), put them in a big tub and cook it and then eat it, they may steam it, they may fry it, or have it in a number of ways.We do that quite a lot when we eat grains...
>>38856618Damn bruh imagine if even more extra even more terrestrial started doing that but to the extra terrestrials >Imagine if everything different but humans bad>Imagine if thing badGod I hate teenage druggies. Why did I even come back to this board
>>38856438According to Manichaeism, very.>Mani believed that harvesting plants was a kind of murder, so he forbade the Manichaean community from harvesting or preparing food.
>>38856438Mahabharata says they can feel and... i forgot. They have senses. Just not as refined as others. Or maybe that makes them more perceptive.
>>38857120And Hindus are diminutive vegetarian rapists so they clearly don't care what was written about plants
>>38856438spiritual family that protect us
>>38856438I wish my potted plant was a girl. I would let her plap me.
I belong to a group who do plant dietas. Essentially we eat plants and meditate with them and otherwise try to link into their ‘vibration’.’They appear to have a wider ‘group soul’ as well as their own personalities. I generally focus on the Oak tree and Mapacho (nicotinia rustica). They appear to have immense intelligence and wisdom. They don’t experience life like us necessarily but they have an understanding of human experience. They will teach you in various ways. Of course there is a lot to it but this is a shamanic tradition that is thousands of years old. You can ask them for proof of things if you have little faith. They will answer things that they (or you) should not really know. Beyond that, if you spend time around plants, especially cultivating them you will see they are intelligent from the things you notice them doing. It’s just that they move in a different time frame to us. If you could speed up their movements nobody would doubt they are sentient…..not just reactive either, but pro-active.
>>38856438Can we astral fuck plant souls?
>>38856438>sentient alien plant species arrives on Earth>plant lifecycle includes seeds being eaten by animals and shit onto the ground where they grow>plant aliens insist that you eat their cum so their children can grow out of your shitwyd?
>>38856438I always felt they were kind to me as a child. Much of nature was.
>>38856438Plants have been known to have senses of sight, touch, smell, and arguably taste.The sense of hearing is merely a highly specialized implementation of the sense of touch.Therefore, it seems that many plants are sentient, if not mostly sentient.Haven't gotten any to suck my dick yet, though.
>>38856438A super carrot? The mind boggles!
>>38856716BasedImagine if marijuana started growing humans to smoke
>>38857850You won’t know until you try. What plant are you going to soul fuck first?
You can get weird with them if you like.
Lilac
>>38857834Tell me about this plant diet. Sounds profound. Do you avoid grains and meat too?
lifefeeds on lifefeeds on lifefeeds on lifefeeds on
They are my best friends if that answers your question
>>38856438Not at all. They don’t even have brains.I know intelligence can be different for different life forms, but there is no benefit to evolve awareness if you can’t move. The only function of your awareness would be to let you constantly suffer from the harsh conditions and bugs constantly nibbling your flesh.Plants are REACTIVE life, like cancer it grows without awareness, not CONSCIOUS life.
>>38859415ya, my brain cells aren't REACTIVEthey're ALIVEand I have VISIONtake that, plantsscrubs gg ez win
all plants go to heaven
>>38857834I ask again as I asked earlier today. Tell us about this plant diet, tell us the methods, tell us about the linking to their vibration, can we achieve peace through this?
>>38856438i personally believe that they are sentient and I treat them with the same level of respect as I would animals. I thank them when I eat them, I talk to the ones I grow kindly. Even stripping back the paranormal aspects, if you just observe how the plants in a forest interact with one another and the other inhabitants in the forest it's hard to believe they are not at least somewhat sentient and conscious. I know that anon said they are "reactive" but the level of communication they have is deep once you start studying it properly. Back to paranormal, I don't know why we assume that science has already proven that they can't talk or feel, maybe we just haven't figured it out the method and the nuances
plants give me the feel goodies and they just smell so nice
>>38862230many aromatics are plant signaling compounds
>>38859415fair point
>>38856762lmao and this was the biggest religion in the world for a little while? ridiculous
About 35% sentient.
I’ve felt the most connected to nature when meditating among the redwoods, which is why I’m not a vegetarian. It feels like an arbitrary line to draw for me. Something as ancient and majestic as a redwood is supposed to be outclassed by a chicken? Sure, Jan.
>>38858592That fucking Nirnroot.
>>38863001KILL THEM ALLcope
>>38863018I still eat (and kill) plants and animals, anon. Your rage is only directed inward.
>>38856438They don't say much
They farm us.
>>38863049My rage is directed outwards at people that lack virtue. I was angry with myself for long enough.
Plants have memory - Gagliano et al 2017, 2018, 2019Research on Mimosa pudicaPlants exhibit “astonishingly complex behaviors such as information acquisition, memory, learning, decision making, etc... they have been proposed to be cognitive and intelligent, an idea which is becoming increasingly accepted.”- Parise et al 2020 - “Extended cognition in plants: is it possible?”Plants have vision:Baluška and Mancuso 2016, “Vision in Plants via Plant-Specific Ocell”
>>38857834i've been dabbling in some botany around the house. i'm not sure about intelligence but plants constantly amaze me by how resilient and adaptable they are. do people in these groups fixate on things from the fungus kingdom? i'm about to start growing mushrooms (culinary as well as psychedelic), seems like a whole other world 2bh.
>>38856438Plants are numinous but not fully sentient
>>38856438I can hear them scream when I cut the grass
>>38856716imagine being an advanced civilization and not just creating a test tube factory to do this
>>38856438plants have no brain you fucking retard
>>38865847and yet somehow they’re still smarter than you
>>38866184fuck you
>>38856438why don't you ask one and find out?
>>38866561Right after you ask a cow
>>38859415>plants don't have structures that are analogous to the ones we consider necessary for consciousness therefore they don't possess consciousnessi feel so bad for westernersthey're so fucking stupid and they don't even realize itwestern science has really brainwashed these people to an incredible extent
>>38866810if they were conscious, existence would be hell
>>38867029always has been
>>38856438they dreaming and shit
>>38867029If politicians were corrupt, that would be bad. Therefore politicians are honest.
Very much sohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvtcA46O-vA
>>38859415plants CAN move you fucking retardand that’s shit reasoning anyways
>>38864212>no repliesignorant illiterate fucks
In Julian Jaynes masterpiece he investigates this at the start of the book. No matter how he tried he was not able to get plants to learn at all. He concludes they are neither sentient sentient or conscious.
>>38858584>Imagine if marijuana started growing humans to smokeBasically that happens. Their reproctive strategy has become being consumed by people. Like pigs in that respect.
>>38868725Julian Jaynes fucking sucks, that book is complete dogshit nonsense
There were 3 birds.One wished to be faster than anything alive. It burst into flame immediately and became cinders. However, in that instant of life it experienced a thousand years of living before its body failed. To the outside observer it was instantly consumed in flames but to itself, it was indeed the fastest thing alive as the world to it was a standstill frozen in time for a thousand years.The second bird wished for a happy life and plentiful offspring. It took lived a normal bird's lifetime relative to the speed of your lifetime.The third bird wished to live long enough to see the stars blink out of existence forever. It instantly turned to the hardest of stone and shrank in size as it became hardest in density. It did last until the stars blinked out, but crumbled to dust thereafter. All three birds wished to live in a different velocity of time. So they were adapted to survive as they could for as long as was tolerated.Small and speedy animals perceive time faster than big, slow creatureshttps://www.newscientist.com/article/2352665-small-and-speedy-animals-perceive-time-faster-than-big-slow-creatures/A comparison of 138 species finds that dragonflies perceive changes in their environment five times faster than humans and 400 times faster than starfishThe FLICKER FUSION TEST, a common measure of the rate at which animals perceive the passage of time. During the test, researchers increase the frequency of a flashing light until an animal sees it as a continuous glow, indicated by the reaction of light receptors in the animal’s retina.“It’s kind of like measuring the frame rate of your eyes,” says Healy. Humans, for example, can detect light flickers at speeds up to 65 flashes per second. That means they can perceive changes in their environment 65 times per second.The data bore out the hypothesis: species that perceived time at the finest resolutions tended to be smaller and have faster metabolisms.
Plants are alive, and they like people who are nice to them.Happy plants make you feel better.
>>38856438I've been refraining from posting in this thread because I wanted to see what the state of perception is around this topic.Ignoring the issues inherent to defining sentience/sapience/etc, I'll add a few very interesting points that haven't been touched on.The most powerful force in nature at scales we can interact with directly is nuclear fusion. Science has not fully grasped the relationship between various types of luminescence in liquids and crystalline materials, but there is a very strong and sensible case to be made that cavitation events in water are micro-scale fusion events. While physics hasn't acquired the proof needed to confirm this, it is the only plausible mechanism to explain the energy released during cavitation.Vascular plants have water in their xylem and phloem. When plant tissues constrict in response to environmental changes, they cause cavitation events in that water. This emits extremely loud acoustic energy. While the frequency of the energy is outside the range of human hearing, it is perceptible to other plants. Experiments have shown plants use this effect to communicate dangers in the environment as well as overall health.Not only this, but the sounds are not random. Each plant species has its own vocabulary of acoustic signatures it can use to communicate with its own species. It would also appear certain sounds are universally understood between species.There is a growing body of scientific evidence supporting the idea that plants harness nuclear fusion to communicate in a variety of 'languages.'Pretty interesting if you ask me.
>>38860421Hey buddy. To answer your question….Different plants like different things. For example when I am dealing with Oak I will meditate at the Oak tree. Talk to it, bring it offerings. When you start communicating the plant might give you direction. The Oak might tell you it would like a ribbon or piece of cloth thing round one of its branches (tie a yellow ribbon round the Old Oak Tree). I would then ask permission to take some of its leaves. I would then go home and wash the leaves. I would get a bowl and pour in some of the finest quality water I could get. I would spend an hour uninterrupted tearing the Oak leaves in the water till they were a mulch. This process in itself is extremely meditative. It will slow you down. Clear your thoughts. Initially you will be wanting to reach for your phone or the remote control. Over time (doing this process every three or four days for a month or longer) you will slow down.This is what I mean, you will be matching the Oak’s ‘vibration’ or character. It is a calm, masculine sentinel which is slow to emotion and anger. Once you have the mulch and water you strain it into a bottle so you just have green liquid with no leaf matter. Then toI drink a shot glass every night and meditate.It will teach you how to be like the Oak Tree. Steady and calm and stoic. It might also teach you other things. Be it things about nature or secrets of the Universe. For example the Oak tree is a very obvious symbol of the Torus Field.
>>38859342It would depend on the plant. For example Oak am doesn’t request you to have a strict diet. It wants your time. Otherwise you cannot ‘get’ on its vibration. Other plants might require you refrain from meat and so on for the duration of their dieta. Beyond that is is always a good idea to refrain from processed foods and too much sugar and booze and caffeine and and whatnot because they keep you on a rollercoaster. You cant reliably take in information on a rollercoaster. Beyond that after a certain time in mediation and solitude and maintaining a pure diet you will get very good at listening to your body. To the point where the ego mins cant override it. So youI generally wont overeat and reach for junk food and sweets. Your body and eventually mind and soul will just crave high whole foods.
>>38864280Yeah generally there is a lot of crossover. Most people who do plant dietas or shamanism or magic with plants will appreciate fungi massively. For example I eat Amanita Muscaria (fly agaric). YOU MUST be very careful with this one and all mushrooms as they can of course poison you. Generally you would eat a fingernail size piece of dried Amanita per night for a month or so. You might do a ritual with them towards the end (smoking and drinking the flesh of the mushroom).Amanita is an extremely powerful spirit. It can be extremely challenging even for seasoned people. Her intelligence is beyond belief.
>>38868735To add to this. When doing a dieta or when smoking or otherwise imbibing a planet or mushroom…..you try on its consciousness for a bit.Do not for one second think they are not wearing your consciousness as well.We already all come from the same source and are made out of the same things so we all have a bit of understanding anyway. Yet it is all reciprocal….ever wonder why it feels so alien to drink a glass or water or move around on two feet whilst you are ‘tripping’ on mushrooms? Ever wonder how Pachamama / Ayahuasca manages to understand human psychology with such expertise?
>>38870135>YOU MUST be very careful with this one and all mushrooms as they can of course poison youEh, the risks of most mushrooms are vastly overblown. Plants are much more dangerous. There’s only a very small number of fungal species responsible for almost all fatal ingestions, and they’re easy to identify. Most inedible mushrooms aren’t dangerously poisonous, they’re just bitter or indigestible and give you a stomach ache.Not to say that you should eat unidentified ones of course, just that they’re not nearly as risky as people in mycophobic cultures think. Again, plants are WAY more dangerous, there are a far greater number of common plants that can easily hurt or kill you.
>>38870299(and yes ofc be careful with amanita, muscarine especially, can cause heart attacks and fuck you up at anything but a very low amount)
>>38870135Interesting. Recently, I've given up a lot of things I was interested in previously, along with addictions and other mental dependencies. It felt like shedding old skin. What I'm left with now I consider my true interests, which are plants, music (or sound, more broadly conceived, and these two keep popping up together, for example >>38869666), and... ritual? something like religion and meditation but not really either, idk what a good word would be. I feel like I'm being challenged to synthesize a holistic lifestyle out of these three things.
>>38870812Plants, music and ritual converge heavily in you classic Ayahuasca ceremony. All things are connected but some things are more closely associated with others. Trite as some consider it….it’s all vibration.
>>38864212>>38869666based
>>38870944>vibrationI don't think it's trite, I believe it quite literally, both spiritually and scientifically. I think I read somewhere that cats purring is actually part of a healing mechanism based on the vibrations that cause the sound. I've been meaning to look into cymatics for a while now too. Some things have also been discussed here recently around binaural beats, audio frequencies, gateway process/hemi-sync, and musical concepts like just intonation and alternate tuning paradigms. There's a lot there and lately it feels like the cosmos is just shoving these things in my face repeatedly until I take the hint. Now if it would only shove a new job with fewer hours in my face, I'd have more time to sort all of this out, but I'm working on freeing myself from the hamster wheel of wage slavery as well. How would you recommend a total noob get started with things like ayahuasca ceremonies and dietas? I did a brief search and it looks like there are things like vacation packages available, but that seems like the wrong way to go about it.
>>38864926>For these “green leaf volatiles” (GLVs) that grasses and other leafy plants release, which are the chemical culprits of that “cut-grass” smell, are actually a distress call that alert other plants to imminent dangerhttps://scienceillustrated.com.au/blog/ask-us/the-smell-of-fresh-cut-grass-is-an-attack-warning/
>>38859415correct anon.Sentience/consciousness and pain only serve animal life where you have to fight/flight/process sensory data to survive. We move out of the way. Plants don't.
It appears that mushrooms respond positively to low frequency audio stimulus and experience significantly increased mycelial growth rate. High frequencies, on the other hand, seem to inhibit growth. Guess I'll start making shroom playlists. Think they might like Harold Budd's Abandoned Cities.
>>38870079>>38870110Thanks for answering about plant diet preparation and the meditative process involved while doing it. I have found that slow attentive preparation is the key thing missing from our modern culture. Peace to you, peace to all attentive meditators. Attention is a wonderful mystery.
>>38856438Their roots are like nerves and can communicate with each other, even share water. If you hurt a plant it's electrical signals will go crazy. They show signs of intelligence for example using animals and birds to carry their seed by making their fruit brightly coloured and delicious. They are often symbiotic with animals and other plants.Cocaine comes from the coca plant. It dilates the cells in your lungs or whatever making it easier to absorb oxygen. Also energises you. Where does it grow? In low oxygen conditions on some of the highest mountain tops. I have heard reports that Salvia carries a conscious spirit called Sally which many report meeting, though that could be a major misrepresentation of what's going on as I have no experience. Both of these drugs have the potential to ruin your life or get you killed by the way. People who hook up electric instruments to them say all sorts of crazy things like they can compose music or they can make sad music when another plant dies but I think that's likely false. I often wonder if there's some dimension, realm or whatever that plants occupy that we don't know about. In the past I have been very imaginative and daydreamy and creative and think maybe being a plant is like a constant opiate high or something. Pure bliss but little sentience or happening. Who knows. There's a plant that if you touch it's leaf the leaf curls up and moves which means they must feel. I think it's a mimosa plant maybe. The biggest living entity on earth is a mycelium. Evolutionarily they are interesting. Mangroves. I think there was maybe maybe something interesting there. I forget.
>>38866810>i know 3 + 2 = 5>4 + 1, however, cannot = 5>as there is a lack of 3 and 2damn it if only I had the ability to problem solve I'd figure out who's responsible for this
one time while hallucinating on an rc, I went outside and was completely speechless by what I was witnessing. Every blade of grass, every weed, every flower, plant and tree; had this rainbow colored “gas” emanating from low to high, as if the plants were all interacting with one another and the sky. It was seriously the most jaw dropping thing I’ve ever witnessed. It was way too detailed to be chalked up to a mere hallucination or side effect, I think the plants are actually releasing a gas we can’t see and I just managed to somehow unlock the ability to see it temporarily.
>>38874814
>>38856438Forests, connected through mycological substrates, are and so is the sun (The sun is the ideal conditions for quantum computing on a massive scale). Individual plants have the awareness of an ant.
Plants are intelligent, here’s how https://doi.org/10.1093/aob/mcz155
>>38874889Conufers exhibit anticipatory behavior before solar eclipses, and moreso the older they are. Implying they “remember” eclipses with collective memory, or they have calculated eclipse cycles out better than we did for most of history
>>38856438Quite, if you are into lucid dreaming, but its really just God larping as a plant. If you ask him directly he will give up the facade.
are we conflating sentience, consciousness and intelligence now?
>>38875651Are we conflating that people who are being careful not to conflate are conflating?>>38869666>Ignoring the issues inherent to defining sentience/sapience/etc, I'll add a few very interesting points that haven't been touched on.Would you like to contribute to the thread now or will you remain a whiner?
>>38857887swallow lots of plant cum of course c:
>>38871980It depends where you are bud. Try and plug in to your local ‘spiritual’ community. Places that do sound baths and the like will generally have some people that have an idea of who to talk to. In the UK or Netherlands or Spain for example there are plenty of people who do it in-country. Do your research, and by that I don’t mean in the experience and such, I mean on the people that are running the ceremony. Get a feel as to whether you trust them or not. This path can be challenging. Be sure you know what you might be getting into. Things can and do go wrong. It can also be an amazingly beautiful path.
>>38856438Incredibly. Why do you think worship of trees was actually a major thing to our ancestors? They knew. Oaks.
>>38856438let's just say we're only here to be a source of fertilizer.https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=R3pfsUgtL9A
>>38877589Thanks. I'm not really expecting to get too deep into anything. When I was young I was more interested in really pushing the bounds of the psychedelic experience. Now I'm mostly content to eat some mushrooms and watch my plants grow and smile about it, but yeah. I've had the urge to just drop everything and join a monastery or something similar for a long time too, but I know those places can be just as bad as secular institutions. Generally I'm hesitant to get involved with others simply because I'm happy by myself, but I also wouldn't/couldn't do something like an ayahuasca ritual without help, but you always have to be wary of scammers and people with otherwise bad intentions.>sound bathI looked this up since I hadn't heard of it before, and it feels almost like I already do this in a way. I might try to find something like this near me to see what the differences are and how they apply it to a specific purpose. For me it's just an overall chilling out of my mind and body. I want to put speakers in my bathroom so I can do it while in a literal bath. I fucking love baths.This appears to have been the subject of a lot of tiktoks at some point in time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0tNEp4m5PY. La Monte Young could never...
