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08/21/20New boards added: /vrpg/, /vmg/, /vst/ and /vm/
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The 2021 Yaoi Game Jam starts in July. I wanted to make a thread in anticipation of this to discuss game design so people can start brainstorming and build momentum.

Emphasis on game. Because the theme of the jam is gay relationships people tend to focus on narratives. As a result The Yaoi Game Jam looks more like The Yaoi VN Jam. There's nothing really to play.

Hence the title of thread, Ludology. The study of gaming. From latin "ludere" meaning "to play".

Luck. Chance. Skill. Rewards. Point conversion. Game Overs.
We can also discuss "homo ludens" if you like.
Unless you got pics then take this shit someplace else. /cm/ is great for discussions.
This isn't reddit. If you want pics, post pics. You have no business posting if you're not even going to bring yourself.
>If you want pics, post pics
Anon that's not what he meant.
/y/ requires at least 5 or 6 pics to start a thread, if you don't post them then it will be deleted after 24 hours.
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Posting porn to keep the thread from being deleted
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/y/ is meant for porn and you need at least 6 relevant pics.

What even is this thread? It's a "game" that doesn't exist. Read the rules and you'll see that discussion threads like this one have no place here.
Thats not a problem, even if it were true. I think you're conflating the board with some collective identity you're attempting to gatekeep. Why else would you bring it up?
Game design and marketing require a certain proficiency with language.
You might not be aware of it, but you are making an appeal to be involved without performing. You might be the kind of homo luden that stives to demonstrate competency. That is, you can't help but to compare yourself to others. You only have 2 interfaces. You can engage properly by posting on topic, or you can run a gambit and attempt to shut the topic down to ensure there are no others.

But this topic isn't a game. Nobody is responsible for your engagement. Such actions will distinguish you as a disruptive troll and bannable by at least 3 global rules. Your sticky guidelines have never been valid.
>t. Ineffectual cumsoomer.
Read the op.
Its a thread for game developers. The yaoi jam has been an annual thing for like 5 years in a row. But its been receiving criticism lately because the "games" are mostly just visual novels.
The thing is, if you focus on porn, you only have a couple of options:
1. "in this variation of this well-known puzzle game, each time you score, you reveal a little bit more of a porn picture". For instance, Minesweeper (the field is a picture of a fully clothed character and each tile you reveal shows the alternate naked version below) or Tetris (each line completed reveals one line of a drawing on the side)... or the alternate Mastermind mini-game from Ripened Tingle's Balloon Trip of Love.
2. "in this variation of this well-known arcade game, every sprite is naked!". See the horrendous Atari 2600 games... although Gigolo had a little bit more depth than it seems and might be somewhat decent with enough balancing and a little polish: you stalk whores leaving the local jail heading back home, and you have to visit each home -with cash- in the exact same order the whore went in while avoiding the cops.
If you decide to instead go to a more narrative-driven game, you'll either end up with an RPG or VN. You COULD recreate Super Mario Bros and replace the princess with a prince if you want, but that would seem like a last-minute change made specifically so you could enter the competition.

I don't really understand what is "suitable" for a "Yaoi" game jam.
Guess Who/Mastermind variation: you work in a dating agency and random men show up to your desk. You propose other men from your files and they reject or accept them (based on how they look, how they dress, what kind of food they like, their hobbies, etc.) You'll have to gauge little by little what turn them off and what turn them on. You get maybe five tries per customer and at the end, you can pick any of the people you proposed so far or make a shot in the dark. The better the match, the more money you get. You have to gain more money than your bitchy co-worker to become the new Cupid of the month. You could have multiple difficulty levels by adding more attributes to your customers (for instance, in easy they would only look for a specific body type, while harder skill levels require to also match hobbies). If you're desperate for a narrative, you can probably add phone call or mail exchange after each customer (character would get compliments from the boss, news from his boyfriend, random stuff about forgotten appointments and whatnot).

Again; really don't know what you'd expect from that kind of jam.
Hence the subject line, ludology. Or shall we say lewdology?
Thinking in terms of play rather than gaze.
Alright, so your opponent is a coworker. How is their score being managed or displayed? Is there a strategy or advantage they can deploy? Like, slow but accurate vs fast but prone to mistakes.
Maybe a manager interrupts you. That translates to a time penalty. Or a point reduction.
Unironically a worthless thread for tourists. Even if you're lenient on the idea of discussion threads, which I am, there's already the existing Indie Games thread you can discuss any actual content with no problem.
And even just dev talk, even if you refuse to chat in dev threads on the other boards, no one would care there. Hell if anything, critcisms of games there often come with discussions on improvement (assuming it's not talking about japanese games for the most part, since complaints there are mostly about translation, exceptions exist of course).
This isn't reddit. You're either participating or your not. There's a whole board for backseat moderators like you.
Maybe hangout on /x/ question the paranormalness of every topic you're not smart enough to contribute too. I'm asking you nicely to mind your own buisness because this is clearly not for you.
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>"the 'games' are just vns and they're shit since vns aren't games in the first place!"
>"we need this thread to make real games again!"
Name one game actually done from here, being this board obviously, even a non-game like a vn.
I hate Idea Guys, way more responsible for the dearth of unfinished garbage, especially in this already niche genre in indie development.
It's flavor stuff. You don't even have to compete with someone; it's not a versus game and not arcade (you can take your time). You can have three score threshold for three different endings and that's good enough. It boils down to kind of figuring out what the customer wants and deciding whether you want to use a candidate he responded mostly positive to, or if you're willing to try a candidate you haven't tested yet in hope you could get a better reward. A bit like "the price is right" or most casino games.
Considering the art barrier most here, if any actually will dev instead of backseat "dev", will have to use Twine and other mostly text based games.
Not that I mind, if anything I've gotten way more out of recent text games than "actual" game releases in a good few years, even just sticking to yaoi/mm stuff. But you'd still have a lot of people that complain about VNs likely being even harder on text stuff, since you can't even have the easy dopamine hit of just extracting art and leaving it at that.
Plus if you want to make an actually good text game, you need a real premise to go along with the effort to see it through. Otherwise you're just another a long line of the derivative shit that's half finished. See 50 thousand high school sims with basically a paragraph at most in each game. Or the "celebrity fuck" genre which is even worse, especially if you dip into fetishes like mind control/hypnosis.
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Let's go back to our roots.
Make a good ol short rpgmaker comedy combat game where the MC and the adventure party are a couple of isekaid fags who use the power of gay sex to fuck and get fucked by various humanoid fantasy species.
>hot guy MC gets sent into a fantasy game by a jealous mad scientist he rejected
>the mad scientist's roommate, who is also gay, accidentally got sent too
>the only way out is to reach and defeat the wizard king who is the game avatar of the mad scientist
>MC and roomie are chilling around the campfire when they are attacked by elves
>discover that their cocks are magic and having sex during combat amplifies their powers
>fight several fantasy species, say elves, dwarves, and orcs
>could add others like fairies and werewolves too
>each fantasy race has one "champion" that you can pick up to join the party
>have some sort of bare bones plot for each of those characters that will include a sex cutscene of text overlaid over some half decent art after each is picked up
>for example the elf tries to assassinate you every night until you recruit him
>then the next night you get a sex cutscene instead
>after you've fought through the land and gathered the champions of all the races, you fight the evil wizard
>he is finally defeated by the combined powers of the party in their ultimate joint technique
>"Fabulous Ass-blastingly Glorious Gay Orgy Time"
>the mad scientist/wizard likes it so much that he un-isekais you
>ends on the implication that you, the roomie, and him are going to have an epic threesome irl
For examples of how this sort of thing could end up looking, think Chthulu Saves the World, Dhux's Scar, maybe even LISA. It doesn't need to be deep to be fun though. Make a demo during the jam and finish it later if needed.
So. Some combat, a basic story, and the chance for both porn in the sex cutscenes and sex-themed comedic gameplay. Not a dating sim. How's that sound, anons?
So what kind of mechanics would you like? Something like BARE where you card fight each other's clothes off and fuck the loser?
>this board
Your imaginary collective is imaginary. Its a bulletin board not a council.
The jam has its own community. Nobody needs you.

You have the objective. But try breaking the elements down to the challenge and skill requirements. The difference between a riddle and a memory game is how long the clues or hints are on the screen. You could add a response timer. Things like that.
Thats all narrative, anon. What's the gameplay? What strategies does the player execute? What attributes and weapons do the characters have? Power scaling. Item drops. Point conversion.

Thats the difference between and actual rpg and a faux-rpg that's just going through the motions.
>The jam has its own community.
Then go there.
Most NTR games are pretty on the rails...for the rpg segments. Its a mix genre.
Generally there's a newly wed couple that fall on hard times and need money. So one path is dungeon crawling - which leads to an affair with that party leader you join.
Then there's a bar maid or courier job that'll conceivably will end in rape. Or straight up whoring. Or staying faithful and ending as a widow if you don't talk your husband through his mental hang-ups.
True the rpg elements are lite. But there's a time management component as well, you can reach the final floor unless you commit to it daily.
"Commitment" is a key word in NTR.
Where do you post the games at?
I'll be nice just this once. Even ignoring using google with "yaoi game jam" as the term, games for this event are all hosted on itch.io.
If a dev wants to maintain a 2nd host, that's on them. It's not impossible however, just unlikely.
The jam is posted on itch. But its not a competition and entries arent usually ranked. A game can be submitted to multiple jams. It's becoming a problem where people join jams for visibility.
Like cosplayers who go to conventions and think of themselves as an attraction.
>Death End Re:quest
I'm just now realizing how the cast of supposed "game developers" never caught on to what the Ludens were.

I wonder if that explains something about IdeaFactory, since they mainly do visual novels.
As a side note. It's something of a mystery how the word itself didn't carry over into other languages. There's a theory its to do with semantics.
Like "foreplay" today has sexual connotations. But it comes from the forward of a play - that is a prologue, or prelude.

delude means something but not lude by itself. Isn't that weird?
It can be confusing trying to explain card game rules to kids if they don't recognize the difference between the verb play and the noun, a play. Sometimes called a "trick".

Coincidently, a jam, short for jamboree, is a play you don't play because you have all the high cards and would take the kitty. Different games have different point cards but generally whatever suit is played, the jack and off-jack are points. They're in cahoots (gay). What is a "jack" you might ask? Its a prince-in-waiting. But if you look at really old decks there were no jacks, but the face cards included knaves (on mounts) and pages. Still conceivably gay for each other. Speaking of kitties, a gay cat is a young gay man following an older vagabond or homeless person. Not to be confused with dirty hobos. These are old terms. "Kings" without kingdoms. Imo, the real reason homosexuals have a poor reputation is because they are usurpers who do nothing and take all the credit. That's their power not-play. Sometimes cut from lineages to maintain their mothers "virgin" queen PR. Personally i wouldn't blame them for hating the game.
Its a rabbit hole. Not just card games but chess as well. In fact chess boards where right up there with royal regalia.
God save the queen. In chess there is a move that isn't to the player's advantage. A case of Ludonarrative dissonance. Just taking an extra turn to let the bishop be captured so that the opponents pawn-turned-queen has a proper non-pagan marriage. IRL a priest doesn't serve the king.
There's lots of theories on how to smooth out inconsistencies. Like in a fantasy world of all males, realistically you must ask how they reproduce. In FFXI the galka race...well the shadow lord is a special kind of galka. They reincarnate but lose their memories. But a special one is a lore keeper that remembers for everyone to maintain their cultural identity. The shadow lord was corrupted by negative emotions. Which gave him an affinity to command demons. Honestly, he did nothing wrong and the other races had it coming.
Theres a lot of debate if galka are male or genderless and the question of their anatomy.
One idea is that they are universal males and can father any of the races.
Aaanyways. That narrative translates to Galka having higher stats beneficial to Dark Kights.

If you're base enough to have a "bottom" class, you might consider that (supposedly) the preference increases with dick length. It could also be interpreted that bottoms are size queens and liars.
is there a discord to join? I want to join this jam
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It was a year ago I wrote "So You Want To Make An Erotic RPG?"
But I think it was overshadowed by the new /vrpg/ board.
The main points where how hentai games integrated their ecchi scenes. The narrative beats and characterization techniques.

>Ludonarrative dissonance
If you make it very campy (over the top) then you can excuse some unnatural human behavior for the sake of comedy. And arousal, in theory. In impromptu acting, there is an exercise where you keep the scene rolling by essentially saying yes to everything. Of course IRL people have boundaries and will say no and avoid engagement.
In impromptu, their isn't a point to a scene but "the show must go on". Typically a scene ends when a character exits or enters, changing the conversation.
In fact, before Shakespeare scripts were nonstandard, just lose outlines of character relationships. The actors were called "Players" because it was essentially a roleplaying game. And of course characters had routines and catch phrases.
Like SNL or MadTv, Miss Swan: "You know...he lookalike...he lookalike a man."

So in a scene where a policeman is getting a witness testimony, or just a customer checking out from a store, their isn't satisfaction in completing the task in the most straight forward manner. Think of it as foreplay. Likewise, in a ecchi game, you don't go
"Fuck me."
*unce unce unce*
You want to play with the character. Emphasis on "Character".

Even in the Humplex "Manfuls", the characters wear their "role" while you strip their uniforms and costumes.
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I think what he's trying to say is that you need to let things play out.
Y’all really like jerking each other off and huffing each other’s shit, huh?
Just let the idea guys have their shitfest and leave, they'll just shit up some other thread or kill it if you seriously take them on. See smalltop-chan for another example of this type of "anon".
>Emphasis on game. Because the theme of the jam is gay relationships people tend to focus on narratives.
1. Just because you don't like visual novels doesn't mean they aren't games.
2. The first rule of the jam explicitly requires "focus on queer relationships between men OR the queer male experience". You aren't going to get that by making a boring, bare-bones RPGmaker game where you stab slimes and can blow an elf at the end.
Speaking of dopamine, that's getting outside of ludology and into neurology.

It's something of a false premise that video games, porn, and other pleasurable things cause addiction.
"Fun" isn't part of ludology. A game doesn't have to be "fun" to be a game. And studies suggest that addiction arises from pre existing mental disorders.

Dopamine as a biological reward system does reinforce behaviors when pleasure is experienced. But any art student can tell you that pleasure and aesthetics are subjective. You can't really write the rules of engagement. Some people have no appreciation for Anime for example because the "art style" isn't "original". It "looks" the same to them. So there's a mental factor right there, novelty seeking. They only like something because it's different. What's considered "different" is outside the designer/developer control. Same with when and how a player chooses to play.

A lot of people play games, consume pornography, and other addictive substances at night. Creating an imbalance of dopamine in the brain.
So as a matter of perspective. Are they staying up all night because it's "fun" or because of social pressures that prevent them from doing it any other time? And in the case of novelty seeking, where did they get it in their head that "looks" matter?
You are correct. Within Ludology, visual novels can be games if the act of reading is itself a challenge. But you might want to keep that to yourself.
I like how in how smug you are in the middle of your circlejerk over "dopamine" and "fun", you didn't even touch anon's 2nd point.
But even sticking to the first, you don't get to talk about "challenge" in the case of the barebones RPGmaker game, those are piss easy. Hell, tons of beloved long running series that no one questioned if they were a game or not like Dragon Quest is also fairly easy. Your idea of challenge never had an argument in the first place, unless you actually had a hard time with any DQ game.
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>elf blowjobs aren't gay
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>Five minutes of touching from a twink with pointy-ears is a sufficient focus on the queer male experience or queer male relationships
Who do you think the focus is assigned to?
The fact that you think a blowjob from a rando qualifies as an exploration of queer male experiences and relationships is both very telling and very depressing.
The fact is, you can't carry a conversation even when you instigate it.
Damn anon I would have been very interested in what you wrote.
If you've played an H-game before then 90% of it would be common sense I think. I wrote it in anticipation for the jam then too.

I say "I think", but maybe it's not that common. Lots of people call their VNs "Dating Sims" but there's no time management or point conversion. Its only a "simulation" in the sense that all stories simulate life.
I didn't write about that, but maybe I should have.
Dopamine is the breadcrumb trail of the reward system, it is a motivation signal, it is not in itself a reward. There is no pleasure from release of dopamine alone.

If you have a number of choices available to you, the dopamine release associated with each of them allows you to rank which would give the greatest reward, from the actual reward chemicals associated with taking that option.

> A lot of people play games, consume pornography, and other addictive substances at night. Creating an imbalance of dopamine in the brain.

"imbalance of dopamine" is the biggest eye roller, that's not how it works. There's no imbalance going on, there's not a greater release, dopamine association only goes up when the reward is unexpected. If you play games every night then you're doing it from habitual addiction, something that animals without a functioning dopamine system still do.
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I'm the idea guy and the artist guy but too stupid to learn programming because they're too daunting for me even with guides. So here's my pitch.
A point and click game/adventure rpg with interactive sex scenes.
Point and click game would be something like Grim Fandango.
Mechanism would involve inventory exchange chain to unlock guy to fuck, world/town map, interactive sex where instead of cutscenes, you as the player will touch everything to increase the cum bar. Pic related for fill the cum meter mechanic.
It's 20% story, 30% item exchange and 50% art/animation.
I just had grinding games like your typical VN such as Summertime Saga.
For future monetizing and dlc, adding new characters, unlock new town/map, perhaps variable endings.
But for starter and game jam, I'd suggest to develop the inventory exchange chain system, character walking on world map like GBA pokemon or Zelda 2, dialog exchange and the interactive sex system. (There's a trick on how to do the "stroking cock").
Should I leave a discord if someone interested and will do the engine?
Thanks for reading.
t. broke artfag that can't afford to hire programmer for his vision
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>If you play games every night then you're doing it from habitual addiction
Yes, anon. That's what we're talking about. The biology of addiction. At night, you're suppose to be producing less dopamine, because you're suppose to be resting not alert. Producing serotonin instead.
The surplus of dopamine reinforces thoughts and behaviors by increasing vigilance. Besides obsession it can lead schizophrenia and learning impairments.

Dopamine is responsible for appetites. When you look at a juicy steak and get hungry, that's the dopamine at work, and it's happening before you eat it, when you anticipate the reward.

That's how stripteases work. The reward (presumably) is seeing someone naked. As the clothes are coming off, your brain is going "yes! yes! yasssss!" with each favorable turn of events towards the reward.

Satisfaction, on the other hand, is regulated by serotonin. This is why people who don't sleep are grouchy. Why neck-beards are first of all, fat, but also, constantly complaining about every little detail, productivity, and efficiency.
And tend to die "strangled by bed sheets" - which is a nice way of saying -without saying- auto-erotic asphyxiations. You know, the strokey-chokey.
The lack of oxygen to the brain makes you feel "happy", because its releasing more dopamine. Rates of ADHD and Suicide have an interesting correlation to elevations.
I went to Denver for Media Arts "the mile high city" which had the highest rate of suicide at the time. Not sure if that's still true. But I remember the instructors saying it's because of being in the mountain's shadow and get as much sunshine as you can.
But Denver has a drug culture too and "sunshine" is a euphemism.
flash is DEAD
Nah, the support is dead, but it lives on in my other Win XP PC. :DD
Cool and all but this isn't really a jam idea but a full fledged development.

You guys need to realize that jams are just a group of friends/randos who slaps together a game in a month or two.
that's the reason why theres 4 modules to be done as smaller mechanisms
>I'd suggest to develop the inventory exchange chain system, character walking on world map like GBA pokemon or Zelda 2, dialog exchange and the interactive sex system. (There's a trick on how to do the "stroking cock").
4 smaller modules.

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