Holy shit this stuff is poison. I've abstained from bread for years but had to go back to eating it due to being a poorfag this week and holy shit I feel like a gluggy retard in the head.
>>74297807Based! You should check out reddit, we have tons of keto subreddits!
>>74297807>waaah waaaah the little carberino made me sloberino I can't thinkerino waaaah waaaaah not the checking 30 gramerino of carberino waaaah waaaaah
>>74297870fpbpkys op, dont spread ur chud genes around tyvm
Make your own sourdough. Problem solved.
>>74297807Yes, grain brain is a real thing>>74297866>>74297870>>74297887Kys Moxyte>>74297981Sourdough is certainly better than standard bread, and homemade is leagues better than storebought, but grain is still a seed and thus a suboptimal food for humans. Seeds are quite literally the worst part of the plant you can consume.
>>74297981based retard would rather have a slightly less poisonous poison than abstain from poison alltogether.
>>74297870found the fatty
>just eat cooked man made grain sludge trust me bro it's good for you
>>74298395everything is man made
>>74297866
>>74298400Not wild game and unvaxxed cattle
>>74298407>wild gametrue but I'm not going to be able to sustain myself on thosealso they're partially man man because all of those have been hunted by us since forever>unvaxxed cattleman made
What is actually the problem with eating grain? Hit me with that information, I'm curious.
>>74298014Post body
>>74298400>everything is man madeThe vast majority of things that exist are not man-made
>>74297807Bitch tier genetics.
>>74297807>due to being a poorfagI guess meat didn't help you get rich all these years. Skill issue faggot
Bread and butter slaps tho
>>74297870Based. Making bread today with the machine, wish me luck boys.
>>74297807Never had any issues with any food. But when I eat too much cabbage I usually fart a lot. Still love me cabbage.
>>74298509its grainbrain goyslop garbage specifically made for slaves, or something.
Mmmm.. rye sourdough fried in eggs...God I love being white.
>>74297807That loaf actually looks really fucking good to anyone who knows what real food is
>>74298509Bro if you don't know the answer to that at this point you seriously might not make it.
>>74298725Looks tasty but you're poisoning yourself and you're likely fat. Also sucks that you just make yourself hungry for more after the fleeting pleasure you get from that measly sandwich. Always chasing the dragon
>>74298913You could have just said you don't know as opposed to pretending to be le epic knowledge gatekeeper
>>74298920>le poisonIf you gave this sandwich to a starving African you'd save his life. Should this be the only food you eat? Fuck no. Are you blatantly dishonest in your "argumentation"? Ding ding ding, honk honk.
>>74297807that's crazy I almost made the same thread today
>>74297870There's nothing wrong with carbs. In fact, they should be the majority of your caloric intake. But they should be healthy carbs like fruit, not slop like wheat.You're not sticking it to anyone by choosing to poison yourself to spite people you dislike. Fucking your stomach lining is not owning redditors.
>>74299023
>>74298725What is it that makes reactionary right wingers so susceptible to this kind of retardation? It's like I'm seeing a repeat of all the boomers from 10 years ago who were putting bacon in and on everything they could think of because they imagined they were sticking it to the vegan democrats.It's ok for some aspects of your life to not be politicized, anon. I understand that you're hopelessly directionbrained but whether or not you eat grains has nothing to do with your position on the political spectrum. And if anything, you're aligning yourself with all of the left wing militant vegans/vegetarians by making eating grains a staple of your personality.
>>74299059now that you're done venting are you gonna tell us that we shouldn't eat bread or fried eggs or bacon?
>>74299023>yeah just eat mostly fructose brostfu already jesus christ i hate the fitness industryyou should eat fruit and should eat carbsunless you consume sugared bread you should not be this much of a pantsy about it just count the macros
>>74298014>Yes, grain brain is a real thingShow scientific evidence for thisYou won't because there isn't, and you're retarded
>>74298509Grains are not intended to be food. They are seeds and they are grown with the intent that they grow into new plants. Plants can't move away from predators to defend themselves or their seeds so they have instead evolved a wide variety of chemical defenses. Grains are full of these substances intended to deter predation by bacteria and fungi and whatever animals might want to eat them.Some animals have become specialized seed eaters and have adapted to deal with all of these chemical defenses but humans are not one of them and the more grains you eat, and the longer you spend eating them, the more your body will be damaged by the accumulative effects of all of these substances, things like>phytates>lectinsand more specifically in wheat,>gluten>amylase-trypsin inhibitorswhich are proteins developed by the plants specifically as defenses against insects.The foods that are good for you are foods from animals, which have physical defenses rather than chemical, and foods from plants that are intended to be eaten, like fruits which plants grow with the intent that animals will eat them as a means of seed dispersal. If it's not from an animal or a fruit then you shouldn't be eating it.
>>74299110>Grains are not intended to be foodok ketobrainnice "argument"
>>74297807Opposite for me I feel like a slow husk
>>74298509There is nothing wrong with eating grain. If you care at all about physical performance then grains are one of your best friends. You hear this litany commonly because the modern world is full of narcissists, and a lot of them became grossly fat because they don't have the character to work out, and couldn't stop from stuffing their faces with processed carbs which provide no nutritional value.So, they go around acting like carbs are the devil for two reasons:(1) Because it exculpates them from the sorry physical condition they found themselves in(2) Because now they can go onto social media and band together with other narcissists to act like making idiotic dietary choices makes them special
>>74299081Yes, you shouldn't eat any of those things.>bread If you don't understand why you shouldn't eat bread then I can't help you.>fried eggsCooking egg yolks oxidizes the cholesterol and turns it into the type that will fuck you up. If you're eating eggs then you should be eating them raw.>baconBacon and pork in general has a horrible nutritional profile and is one of the few commonly consumed meats with a significant content of polyunsaturated fat, by far the worst to consume, especially if you're cooking it at high temperatures. Half of the fat in bacon is fucking oleic acid, come on.From the standpoint of health, you should never be eating meat that doesn't come from ruminants. The less saturated the fat you eat is, the worse it is for you.
>>74299119I'm sorry that's too complex for you but if you don't have a rebuttal then it looks much better for you if you just don't reply.>ketobrainI'm >>74299023, try again. See if you can really work your brain and come up with a reply that isn't just limp dick attempts at insults.
>>74299099>t. autist incapable of nuanced thoughtAnon, just because you watched some youtube videos about how high fructose corn syrup is bad for you, that doesn't mean that all fructose is bad for you. Corn syrup is bad for you because it's made from grain, not because it contains fructose.
>>74298509It's full of anti-nutrients like phytates and lectins that the plant evolved specifically to deter animals from eating them. These disrupt your digestion and stop you from absorbing nutrients, which can lead to nutrient deficiencies. Our brains have gotten smaller, we've gotten shorter, and we started developing dental caries and osteoporosis after the agricultural revolution, due to mineral and fat-soluble vitamin deficiencies.Grains are seeds. Seeds are the plants' babies, their next generation. There is immense evolutionary pressure for the plants to make their seeds extremely bitter and difficult to digest, if not outright deadly. Plants have been co-evolving with animals for millions of years, so they've had plenty of time to develop these defense chemicals.There is also overwhelming archeological evidence that human beings are carnivores, and that we've been getting most of our calories from animals for hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of years. The fat from megafauna like woolly mammoths fed our brains and allowed them to grow (the brain is mostly made of fat). Plenty of people around the world are healing chronic diseases by adopting a carnivore or carnivore-style diet and eliminating seeds and seed oils from their diets. Look into Paul Saladino or Anthony Chaffee if you want more details.
>>74297807>low sleep>low food Both make you dumb like a guy person, I hate that feeling.
>>74298014>moxytesorry i dont understand your permanently online faggot lingo, I prefer to speak english faggot
>>74298377only fatties care about meme diets. normal people just eat food
>>74299110>Grains are not intended to be food.intended by who?>>74299139>Yes, you shouldn't eat any of those things.why?>If you don't understand why you shouldn't eat bread then I can't help you.there is nothing you know that would explain why eating bread is bad>Cooking egg yolks oxidizes the cholesterol and?dietary cholesterol doesn't affect your blood lipids or overall health> If you're eating eggs then you should be eating them raw.ah yes, more raw foodism hippy gatekeeping nonsense>Bacon and pork in general has a horrible nutritional profilebetter than half the foods you eat I bet>with a significant content of polyunsaturated fatdoesn't mean anything>especially if you're cooking it at high temperatures.why?>Half of the fat in bacon is fucking oleic acid, come on.and?>From the standpoint of health, you should never be eating meat that doesn't come from ruminantsagain, no actual reasons given>The less saturated the fat you eat is, the worse it is for you.nonsenseand again, no actual reasons posted
>>74299189>intended by who?I explained that within my post that you clearly didn't read, but if you didn't understand my explanation then this anon >>74299164 has kindly explained the same thing.>dietary cholesterol doesn't affect your blood lipids or overall healthAnd you believe this because your favorite blogger told you so? The reason people like you are so confused regarding dietary cholesterol is because the effect it has on your body is dependent on the type of cholesterol you consume. The cholesterol in a raw egg will not harm you. The cholesterol in a cooked egg will, because that's what heat does to cholesterol. You're welcome to research the process of lipid oxidation if you don't believe me but I doubt you will, as I can tell that your opinions are purely faith-based.Cooking foods polyunsaturated fat (if you think that pufa content "doesn't mean anything" then you have no clue, by the way) at high temperatures is bad for the same reason; because these fats are very unstable and the heat of cooking oxidizes them and makes them far, far more harmful to you. The primary dietary drivers of atherosclerosis, by FAR, are oxidized polyunsaturated fats. These are the fats you can find in foods fried in vegetable oils, but also in foods like bacon.Anon, I have neither the time nor the space to educate you on the basics of nutritional science and we both know that you're just here to nitpick regardless and would find some petty reason to dismiss any sources I provided, because that's how people like you operate. If you care about your health then do the research but I personally don't give a single fuck about your health, so that's all on you.
>>74299245>I explained that within my post that you clearly didn't readI did read I just didn't find this "intent" fromthere is no intent in natural evolution, evolution isn't a person with agency it is a phenomenon>And you believe this because your favorite blogger told you so?no, I believe it because it makes rational sense and explains what we see in the literature which is that any blood lipid changes from eating eggs comes from its fatty acid profile not "oxidized cholesterol">The reason people like you are so confused regarding dietary cholesterol is because the effect it has on your body is dependent on the type of cholesterol you consume.enlighten me> The cholesterol in a raw egg will not harm you. no evidence for this btw>The cholesterol in a cooked egg willwhy? because it's "oxidized"?there's no proof that one is "healthy" and the other is not>You're welcome to research the process of lipid oxidation already did, oxidizing cholesterol in food you eat doesn't do anything and wouldn't make any sense for it to do so>Cooking foods polyunsaturated fat at high temperature is bad for the same reasonwhich one?you aren't explaining anything you are just saying cooking is bad because well it just iswhy is it bad to cook polyunsaturated fat or cholesterol?it takes many hours of cooking pufa's in order for significant oxidation to take place too and it will always be a matter of degree and quantity that will determine whether or not it is healthy, eating 0.1g of "oxidized" pufa's won't damage your health>The primary dietary drivers of atherosclerosis, by FAR, are oxidized polyunsaturated fats.you just pulled his out of your ass, there is not a single credible source of information backing that, the biggest contributor to atherosclerosis is LDL-C + genetic predisposition for such>I have neither the time nor the space to educate you you don't have anything on this
>>74299354>there is no intent in natural evolution, evolution isn't a person with agency it is a phenomenonImagine devolving to this level of semantic nitpicking. If you don't like my phrasing that's fine but don't pretend that you don't understand my point, to which you have yet to offer any rebuttal. If you'd like to present one then go ahead but otherwise, if this is all you have to offer then we're done and I accept your concession.Grains are bad for you because they are packed with chemical defenses to protect them from predation until they can grow into new plants. Do you have a response to this or not?
>>74299186Normal people, aka "normies" have subpar results. If that's good enough for you, go right ahead.
>>74299458shut the fuck up fatty
>>74299138Carb addict cope detected. If you want the truth about grains read We want to live by aajonus vonderplanitz or look him up on youtube.
>>74299463Carb addict projection. Sad!
>>74297866>>74297870>>74297887>>74299104Jewish posts
>>74298407> unvaxxed cattleBasically doesn’t exist unless you raise your own
>>74298920The fuck, chasing dragons? I'm no furry.>>74299059Taunt landed.
>>74297807lol what a bunch of frail little bitches who get all exhausted after eating a piece of bread
>>74299110Nothing was intended to be food, holy shit how fucking retarded can you be?
>>74299436Having downsides doesn't mean the entire food isn't good for you, you fucking moron, everything has pros and cons, stop thinking in black and white
>>74299110>Grains are not intended to be foodStupid fucking retard. Stupid dumb cunt. I fucking hate how much of a cretin you are. You exist and you spread your half-wit internet assembled opinions, you're a detriment to mankind. You complete waste of space. You sit there with a false sense of pride in your intelligence, so fucking stupid as to be incapable of being aware of how much of a fucking stupid cunt you are. Please kill yourself. Please.
>>74300727As retarded as that guy is, that's not actually true - fruit bearing plants evolved over millions of years alongside animals as a sort of symbiotic relationship. The animal eats the fruit, poops out the seed and a new plant grows. But suggesting we shouldn't eat seeds/grains because "they're not designed for eating" is retarded. That's why we fucking process them first. We've been doing it for thousands of years and nobody dropped dead because they ate too much bread.
>>74299436>Imagine devolving to this level of semantic nitpicking. you might think it's nitpicking but it is importantit is not that we are not meant to eat those foods like you claimYOU think we aren't meant to eat those foods, that is what is going on>grains are bad for you because they are packed with chemical defensesthis doesn't mean anythinghumans have been eating wild grains for dozens of thousands of years before we ever began to cultivate them meaning WE have chemical defenses within us to protect against those plants in turn so your point is moot, we have also been eating mostly poly unsaturated fat rich wild game instead of domesticated saturated fat ridden fattened sick inbred livestock up from the beginning of our species to the end of the mesolithicsure bacon is processed so not ideal specially if consumed in big quantities but we aren't talking about eating a bacon based diet, eating bacon once in a while won't do a thing to your health and neither will eating fried eggs, if eating fried eggs is bad because of oxidation then I guess eating cooked fish or wild game of any kind is terrible since non domesticated wild game have not only cholesterol that can be oxidized but also a high amount of pufa's
fuck breadbread made from modern wheat at leasti dont even miss it desu
>>74299164Yeah we should all be living forever with PhDs. You complete fucking moron. Wheat is fucking fine.
>>74297807It's the gluten. Eat gluten-free.
>>74299164Absolute shit. You're a moron and you've grossly misrepresented the research. Mineral malabsorption from phylates isn't an issue at all. Maybe if you're poor and that's all you eat. Fuck I hate people like you, you're such a dullard.
>>74300775Post body.
I only eat bread when I am overseas. Mutant American wheat is toxic
Eat real bread you stupid fuck
>>74297866Bravo.
>>74299189>>74300727>>74300775>>74299119Kek 4 responses, none went past the first sentence and most are just insults.You are just arguing semantics. Replace the first sentence with "Grains have evolved specifically not to be eaten/digested." which is what half of the rest of his post is elaborating on and which is the meaning implicitly understood from the first sentence by anyone not intending to argue in bad faith.
>>74298668why are anime breasts so much better than real breats
>>74301627>Grains have evolved specifically not to be eaten/digestedSuch a nonsense cuz we can eat and digest them
>>74299181>>74300850>>74300970Kys twice
>>74301627>"Grains have evolved specifically not to be eaten/digested."and like I said above animals have evolved with the ability to eat all sorts of plants including grains, humans are specially adapted to eating starchy plants and grains and we have evidence of wild grain and wild vegetable consumption in dozens of thousands of years old neanderthal and homo sapiens remains
>>74301627Most people are just hopelessly addicted to the foods they like to eat. They'll never rationally consider an argument that suggests that their favorite foods are actually bad for them.>>74301837Do you imagine that foods that were the last resort of starving humans are the sorts of foods you should be making a staple of your diet? Do you think you could go back 12,000 years and find any human who, when offered his choice of meat, fruit, honey, or grains, would choose the grains?Do you know what the preparation process looked like for the grain they did eat? Every shred of evidence we have of any kind of seed consumption be pre-modern peoples tells us that they were well aware of how toxic these foods were, as evidenced by the fact that they all, regardless of where they lived or what exactly they were eating, developed lengthy processes for treating these foods before they ate them.Indigenous North Americans ate a lot of acorns but only after they developed a process to grind them into flour, boil them to remove the tannins, and ferment the mash to reduce the phytic acid. If you ate a diet that was primarily raw acorns, you would die. To the South, corn was a staple food, but only after the process of nixtamalization was developed, which is again a complex process of cooking corn in alkaline limewater, leaving it to ferment for a day or two, and hulling the kernels.These are very labor intensive processes, especially for native populations, and there is absolutely no reason they would have gone to such time and effort attempting to process these foods if eating them raw or lightly cooked were perfectly fine. Best case scenario, you spend a couple days cooking and fermenting your grains before you eat them and even then you're only reducing the harm, not removing it.How much of the grains you eat have been boiled, fermented, and hulled? You probably buy shit that advertises itself with terms like "stone ground whole grains".
>>74302191Billions of people have been eating grains for thousands of years and it was never a problem until now?I guess all these sickly fat people we have the last few decades got that way from bread and not sitting on the couch for 10 hours a day shoveling Doritos in their faces and swilling Mt Dew.Yeah its definitely those fucking grains in the Doritos that are doing it.
>>74297807Same shit happens to me, the day after I eat bread I feel retarded and the brain fog is unreal
>>74301804>Such a nonsense cuz we can eat and digest themMost animals can eat and digest most foods. Frugivorous apes like chimpanzees occasionally eat whatever small animals they happen to catch. Pure herbivores like cows or deer do the same. Wolves eat berries.Despite this, if you feed a chimpanzee or cow nothing but meat, or a wolf nothing but berries, they will probably die. Humans can eat grains as an occasional famine food or as a small percentage of an otherwise healthy diet and see little in the way of ill effects, but the larger a portion of your diet grains become, the larger the negative effects will become.Prehistoric hunter-gatherers probably ate wild grains or nuts occasionally, when they weren't successful while hunting and couldn't forage anything better. It was rare and not a big deal and it wasn't until the Neolithic revolution and the birth of agriculture that we really began to see the effects of a grain heavy diet, effects that were so sudden and severe that they are clearly visible in the fossil record as previously healthy humans start to show a sharp decline in most aspects of health. Here is a paper on the subject:>https://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1186&context=nebanthro>Skeletal analyses of human remains from early agricultural centers throughout the world indicate that this revolution significantly affected overall human health. This paper will address some of the drastic effects of this transition asevidenced by craniofacial changes related to masticatory function, declines in oral health, increased spread of pathogens, infectious disease, and zoonoses, as well as a variety of ailments which have been linked to nutritional deficiencies and increased physical stress on the human body.
>>74302245>Billions of people have been eating grains for thousands of years and it was never a problem until now?It's always been a problem, see my post and the paper linked here >>74302257.You're conflating multiple issues and I'm not sure why you're so desperately simping for bread. Sedentary lifestyles are unhealthy, doritos are unhealthy, and grains are also unhealthy. All of these things can be true at the same time. Most aspects of modern lifestyles are very unhealthy and no one was ever claiming that grains are the only problem, but thank you for yet another bad faith argument.
>>74302269factor out the recent obesity/junk food/inactivity epidemic and you still have billions of people eating grains for thousands of years and the only people it seems to affect are 4chan schizos who "feel retarded for days" after eating a slice of bread.
>>74302306>you still have billions of people eating grains for thousands of years and the only people it seems to affect are...the people from literally every Neolithic population center across the globe? This is fact, not opinion. We can tell when a given region developed agriculture because, aside from the formation of population centers, the skeletal remains of people who adopted a grain-based diet are riddled with cavities, smaller and weaker jaws, nutrient deficiencies, and so forth. This is true in America, this is true in Europe, this is true in Asia. When hunter-gatherers became farmers, it fucked them up so badly that you can see it in their skeletons.Son, if you can't debate without this level of outright dishonesty then don't bother. Just close the thread and move on. We're all anonymous here and no one but you will know. Every time you reply by repeating some disingenuous lies and blatantly ignoring the facts staring you in the face, you just make yourself look like more of a fool. You clearly don't know much about this topic and there's only so far you can go with pure bullshit. It might work when you're debating someone who's also just as much of an ignorant bullshitter as you are but unfortunately, that's not me.
>>74302306Did you never hear how people in medieval times were like 5'3" on average? That's the most obvious and immediate example of how their nutrition wasn't that great.
>>74302257>>74302355Based and redpilled.
>>74302355You're just scared of a piece of bread.And agriculture allowed the population to massively increase. People prone to bad teeth, genetic weaknesses etc who would otherwise died were able to survive due to plentiful food and stable living conditions.I've been eating grains all my life and dont have a "fucked up skeleton", nutrient deficiencies, weak jaw etc. nor does anyone else I know.
>>74300775Is this copypasta? How could someone be so mad at someone stating the obvious? There are multiple food groups that are "intended to be food," like fruit, squash, etc. That's their whole purpose. Make seeds, then make plant material intended to be food. It's not a silly statement to say some plants are "not intended to be food." It's just pointing out the obvious.
>>74302381>higher population = better healthAh yes, all of these cows in pic related are much healthier than aurochs which roamed the wilderness 300 years ago.>I don't have a fucked up skeleton or weak jaw or nutrient deficiencies>nor does anyone else I knowI know many people with weak jaws and small statures and who are nutrient-deprived (seen by obesity or anorexia). If you don't know any short people, any obese people, or anyone with a weak jaw, you either are all 3 and are delusional or know literally 0 people.
>>74302367so you think that's caused by eating grains specifically and not just lack of food overall?You think there was enough resources for the entire population to be doing keto?Sure if you eat nothing but bread and water you'll problems but its not bread's fault there was no meat to eat too.
>>74302394>higher population = better healthI never said anything of the sort.> know many people with weak jaws and small statures and who are nutrient-deprived (seen by obesity or anorexia)And this is because they ate grain specifically and not overall lifestyle and mental health?Like if some slob eats nothing but ramen and candy every day he'd be in perfect health as long as he didnt eat a piece of bread too?
>>74302381>You're just scared of a piece of bread.We're really scraping the bottom of the barrel now, aren't we? "You're just too much of a pussy to poison yourself", incredible.>And agriculture allowed the population to massively increase.This is true but this is neither a positive thing nor is it in any way relevant to the topic of the effect of agriculture on the health of the individual.>People prone to bad teeth, genetic weaknesses etc who would otherwise died were able to survive due to plentiful food and stable living conditions.Anon, every time you post it becomes more and more apparent that you don't have the slightest clue and are just doing that typical 4chan debate thing where you invent some new bullshit for each post and hope that no one else knows enough to call you out. I have provided you with a paper on the subject, and will even provide it for you again:>https://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1186&context=nebanthroThe negative effects I've listed are a small sampling of the very wide range of negative effects that have been proven across the globe to occur after the arrival of agriculture. You have a theory and that's nice but I think we've reached the point where you need more than a theory.I've provided published research in support of my position. If you can do the same then please, offer us some support for your position aside from your personal opinion that you're "totally healthy, bro". Otherwise, I'm going to be forced to consider this your loss - not that it wasn't blatantly so already.>I've been eating grains all my life and dont have a "fucked up skeleton", nutrient deficiencies, weak jaw etc. nor does anyone else I know.And what is your baseline to determining whether or not your health has been affected by your diet, which you and the people you know have presumably been consuming for your entire lives? What is your control group?
The truth is a /pol/ answer. Only the most expensive food or food you grow yourself isn't poisonous at this point. The commie infected government is trying to reduce the number of fat poors it has to support with its dumb ass welfare programs by poisoning the food. Even the expensive food you buy at a chain grocer is full of poison. There's nothing any of us can do because only people that are too poor to afford non-poison post on 4chan. See you fags in Hell.
>>74297807What can you eat aside from bread?Whats as convenient or staple a food as bread?By someone addicted to bread
>>74302454so basically you're just weak, dyel, have bad teeth and a small chin and want to blame bread instead of the loser in the mirror.I wondered what people like you would pick as the next boogeyman that caused all your fucked up problems after blaming (in order from new to old)microplasticseed oilsugarglutencarbs in generaltransfatsaturated fat
>>74302454>And what is your baseline to determining whether or not your health has been affected by your diet, which you and the people you know have presumably been consuming for your entire lives? What is your control group?there's those keto people that haven't touched a grain in decades be free of all these mysterious vague unspecified ailments by now right?Right?
>>74302471So if I went to walmart and bought and orange and sent to a lab for testing, what poisons would they detect and in what quantities?Be specific?Also how did these poisons get into the orange from the time it was on the tree until it arrived at the store?
>>74299059Are the right wing bread eaters in the room with you now?
>>74297807If I don't eat bread I shit liquid and get hemorrhoids. I abstained from bread for awhile but now I'm eating it again. I usually eat an egg sandwich or have an over easy egg on toast for breakfast. My hemorrhoids are gone.
Every human being who eats bread deserves to be raped!
>>74302487So that's a no, you have no support for your beliefs except your own limp dick and you have no arguments left except empty personal insults. Embarrassing, truly. I know that /fit/ is not one of the higher iq boards on this site but you're falling short of even that low, low bar.>>74302497And I see here another resounding, "no". You don't have a control group; you don't know what your body or your health would look like if you hadn't spent your entire life poisoning yourself.>these mysterious vague unspecified ailmentsI'm asking you, in complete seriousness: why can't you just be honest? Why are you making these desperate lies in every post? There is nothing "mysterious" or "vague" about my claims and I have even gone so far as to provide you with a research article on the subject which very specifically and clearly describes the exact ailments that arise when people start eating grain-based diets.Why keep lying? We can all read the thread and see very clearly that you're lying. What's the point? Resorting to personal insults and outright lies is like waving a huge flag that says>i have no rebuttal! i have nothing left to say, but i still want to win! mommy please let me win!!
>>74302524I'm all trolling the these nograincels, but you have to larp better. Diarrhea doesnt cause hemotrhoids, faggot. This just makes you look stupid.
>>74302536Well my hemorrhoids are gone after I started eating bread again and have solid turds. What else could it be?
>>74302533I'm guessing you dont eat poison grains so you should be a good example of all these health benefits you have that literally zero other people on the planet have,'Go ahead and tell us about your miraculous state of health compared to rest of us grain brains.I'll wait.
>>74302510NTA but on the average conventionally produced orange you could expect to find one of more of the following pesticides or fungicides:>Abamectin>Buprofezin>Ethoxazole>Imazalil>Thiophanate-Methylat concentrations of between 0.1-2 mg/kg, with Abamectin and Ethoxazole tending toward the lower end of that spectrum and Buprofezin and Imazalil toward the higher end.The FDA allows an artificial dye, citrus red #2, to be used to color the skin of oranges. This dye is a type 2B carcinogen. Some other common treatments of orange skin include ammonia-based emulsions and morpholine, used as emulsifiers and solubility aids for shellac and other coatings. Morpholine is a precursor of N-nitrosomorpholine, a known mutagen and carcinogen, and is a prohibited food additive in Europe.
>>74302620so you just googled pesticides on oranges and copypasted the first result here and you have no fucking idea what what any of those substances are do you (neither do I) or what you're talking about.what concentrations are dangerous to humans?What if any illness do they cause? Where all these people with pesticide toxicity from drinking orange juice every morning for 40 years?
>>74302557>you don't like my personal anecdotes? why don't you tell us your personal anecdotes instead?What are you trying to accomplish here? We both know that even if I started listing off health benefits for you, you'd call me a liar or come up with some other cope to dismiss them. Son, please, go back to wherever you dropped your pride and pick it back up because you're embarrassing yourself.I've been dragging this out for the benefit of any lurkers but if you can't stop this petty dishonesty then I think we're done here. Since you're incapable of good faith debate then I'll leave you with the option to either explain how this paper is incorrect or concede. Your choice.>Human Health and the Neolithic Revolution: an Overview of Impacts of the Agricultural Transition on Oral Health, Epidemiology, and the Human Body>https://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1186&context=nebanthroI will consider anything other than at least an attempted rebuttal of this article to be your concession.
>>74302670If you had all these health benefits from nograins that everyone didnt, you'd have been touting them non-stop from the beginning. But you dont. You have nothing but excuses.Pathetic.You're just another chump on 4chan sitting alone in a messy room acting like you have secret "redpill" knowledge the normies dont because you cite some study you probably didnt even read nor understand if you did.I'm gonna have a chicken sandwich now.I will feel fucking great after eating it too.
>>74302667>i don't know what any of that means so that means that no one else does eitherHow embarrassing for you. Surely it's common knowledge at this point that pesticides are common food contaminants and yet you haven't spent 30 minutes educating yourself on the most common ones and their effects? You may care that little about your own health, but you can't actually be surprised that some people take basic steps to educate themselves, can you?>what concentrations are dangerous to humans?Anyone with some sense will tell you that any concentration of artificial pesticides are bad for you. The FDA sets supposed "safe" concentrations of these pesticides but those are frequently ignored. Third party groups regularly test produce and, to give an example, recently found Imazalil (a fungicide which is a known carcinogen and endocrine disruptor) on citrus fruits at levels that were 20 times higher than the generally recognized "safe" levels.>https://www.ewg.org/foodnews/citrus.php>What if any illness do they cause?They are either carcinogens or endocrine disruptors, sometimes both.>Where all these people with pesticide toxicity from drinking orange juice every morning for 40 years?You can apply a little common sense here, right? No? Ok, I'll do it for you:>Between 2000 and 2019, annual cancer cases increased 36.5%. The number of new cancer cases annually rose from 1.3 million to 1.8 million, growing consistently nearly every year.
I fucking love arguing about bread
>>74302702>being this mindbroken by "grains are unhealthy"
>>74302667What are you trying to achieve here anon? Are you selling me oranges? Are you selling me the merits of my state? What I'm sure of is that you didn't ask your question to learn anything, so why then have you asked it?
>>74302426Ramen is made of grains, anon. Anyway, thanks for admitting you were completely wrong about not knowing any short people, fat people, or people with weak jaws. That was an insane and indefensible claim lol.
>>74302724>>Between 2000 and 2019, annual cancer cases increased 36.5%. The number of new cancer cases annually rose from 1.3 million to 1.8 million, growing consistently nearly every year.and that's all from pesticides specifically?And has nothing to do with more people getting screened for cancer earlier or better detection methods too? Anyway you fruitcakes have blaming all this cancer on the covid vax.It cant be both
>>74302702Please enjoy your chicken sandwich with goyslop sauce while I enjoy steak and avocado with milk and fruit for dessert.
>>74302381You just admitted that grains are dysgenic lol
>>74302766I'm just looking for proof of your claim that grains are poison not meant to be eaten and other than one archeological study about cavemen you have none.
>>74302792Oh. I'm not that anon. I'm the "FDA is purposefully poisoning us." Anon.
>>74302782I dont think you know how genetics works
>>74302775>a spoonful of mayo (eggs and oil) is poison goyslopthe mental state of nograiners
>>74302801So FDA jews are conspiring with orange farmers in Florida to poison every one by spraying pesticides that possible maybe give you cancer in 30 years?Whats in it for the farmers?Also that seems like a terrible ineffecient way to poison people.
>>74297807i like potato bread
>>74302772>and that's all from pesticides specifically?Tsk tsk anon, it's not a good sign if you're resorting to this kind of bad faith argument already. You asked what poisons are found on oranges and I told you. You asked what illnesses they cause and I told you. Now in typical 4chan midwit form, you've been reduced to>ok well maybe oranges contain those chemicals and maybe those chemicals are carcinogens but if you can't PROVE that eating oranges covered in carcinogenic chemicals directly causes cancerEmbarrassing, embarrassing. I don't understand why you people always go to such effort to defend such retarded positions.Imazalil a known carcinogen, endocrine disruptor, and neurotoxin, yes or no?
>>74302766>What I'm sure of is that you didn't ask your question to learn anything, so why then have you asked it?When he asked >>74302510 then he didn't expect a real answer. He "knew" that oranges from wal-mart don't contain any poisons and when someone replied with irrefutable evidence that they actually do, he didn't know how to respond. All he's doing now is stringing together cope after cope.The way he imagined this going was he asked his question and anon responded with some easily dismissible schizo nonsense, and then he could go about his day feeling smart and smug. He wasn't ready for an actual answer.
>>74302875>Imazalilyou tell me. You're the one who just learned that word from google just now.also guess what happens if you stopped using all these carcinogen pesticides on crops?It means everyone would starve.So if I have the choice of a full belly now and maybe getting cancer when I'm 60 or slowly starving to death while fighting with other people for food like a nigger in Ethiopia, guess which one I'll pick.
>>74302901I never said there's no pesticides on walmart oranges. That's one reason you fucking wash fruit before you eat it. All that guy did was google it and copypasted while acting like he knows what he's talking about. How much pesticide is in a peeled orange? How may do you have to eat over how long before you maybe get cancer?
>>74302917>You're the one who just learned that word from google just now.I think we've been over this already but just because you don't know the names of the most common pesticides doesn't mean that other people don't. I "learned that word" in the late '90s when I first started paying attention to EWG's yearly pesticide testing. I understand that you're hopelessly ignorant about this area but a good rule in life is to not assume that just because you don't know something, no one else does either.As for the rest of your post, it's nice to see how quickly you've gone from>i DARE you to tell me what's wrong with wal-mart orangesto>ok yes i accept that i will get cancer from eating oranges but it will happen 30 years from now and at least i'll be able to eat cheap food until thenI'm glad we could complete your education so quickly.
>>74302943>I never said there's no pesticides on walmart oranges. That's one reason you fucking wash fruit before you eat it.lmao get a load of this guy>tell me what poisons are on oranges!>no, not the poisons i already know about, tell me about new poisons!!!what exactly is your goal here
>>74302961Everyone knows there's trace pesticides in fruit. So is there enough to cause cancer?How many cases of cancer a year are linked to oranges?When I asked this before you just copypasted some dramatic statistic about the rise in cancer over the last few years and implied its from oranges.So maybe I get cancer when I'm 75 instead of 80 because I ate an orange.But without all these evil pesticides an orange would cost $500 and most people wont live to age 75 anyway because there would never be enough food to support civilization as we know it.
>/fit/ still eating gluten Jesus fucking Christ
>>74302981To actually see if anyone know what they're talking about instead of spouting memes or copypasting a hastily googled answer.You can google. Good for you. That's still doesnt mean you know what you're talking about.
>>74302997>But without all these evil pesticides an orange would cost $500>he doesn't know about organic producebro wtf are you even doingjust take the loss and close the tab god damni'm getting secondhand embarrassment over here
>>74300797/thread>now stop arguing about it faggots
>>74303009>organic produceand it costs twice as much as the regular. You're just proving my point.Crops are hard to grow without pests destroying them so they cost more.See how that works?
>>74303007>>74302997Son, don't pretend that you're here for honest debate when every one of your posts is full of bad faith kikery. First you were amazed that someone would claim that oranges contain poisons and now you're saying that obviously everyone knows that they contain toxic pesticides. You're acting like the facts don't count if they came from google, and now you've maneuvered yourself into this very weird corner where you've accepted that you were wrong about poisons in oranges, wrong about pesticides being toxic, and are trying to argue that yes, oranges contain poison but it's small amounts of poison that won't affect you until you're older.Now you're demanding that someone "prove" that eating food containing pesticides causes cancer? Bro, you know that's not how it works. As you keep reminding us, cancer develops over decades and it's pretty much impossible to point to a single causal factor because there are many aspects of modern life contributing to it and there's no way to single one out and know exactly how much of an impact it had. We know that pesticides are carcinogenic, period.Nitpicking the exact details of how many parts per million per orange per week per decade would be required to cause cancer when your initial demand was simply, "tell me what poisons are in oranges" is a fallacious form of argument, which i'm sure you already know>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moving_the_goalposts>Moving the goalposts is an informal fallacy in which evidence presented in response to a specific claim is dismissed and some other (often greater) evidence is demanded.Here we see a textbook example:>>74302510>what poisons would they detect and in what quantities?>>74302667>What if any illness do they cause?>>74302772>and that's all from pesticides specifically?>>74302997>How many cases of cancer a year are linked to oranges?It's ok to admit you were wrong. We're all anonymous here.
>>74303039>and it costs twice as much as the regular.regular oranges cost $250 where you live?
>>74303081This shows you have no cognitive ability whatsoever.I'm not sure you're even sane actually.What happens to the global supply and price of oranges if all oranges were to be grown with out spraying some kind of pesticide on them?Do you really think the supply of oranges would remain the same or would far fewer of them survive?
>>74302837Jeez I don't remember saying any of that, is that what I said?So I confess to bullshit romanticizarion starting this out talking about being PURPOSEFULLY poisoned. I can't know if that's happening or not (neither can anyone here either though). My REAL opinion on this subject is that if not malevolent, our food bureaucrats are at least neglectful and ignorant, and we pay for that in poor nutrition. The symptoms that many /fit/izens struggle to attribute to the food itself, I think is more likely caused by industrial gastronomy. I dunno who's deliberating about whether or not spraying produce with chemicals that kill insects and fungus might be bad for us, but that's a pretty silly fucking premise. Lysol kills flies if you spray them with it, it doesn't kill you if you get some on your skin though. Either way, are you gonna spray your food with lysol to disinfect it?You gon' wash yo' chicken, anon?
>>74303175>The symptoms that many /fit/izens struggle to attribute to the food itself,see that's just it.I dont have these "symptoms" despite eating bread, "sneeds", and even some "goylop".These symptoms you talk about is called being a LOSER with shitty life.So all 4chancels do is try to blame it something other than the loser in the mirror. So they blame seed oils, microplastic, various trace food additives, low testosterone, jews etc all for them being fat, dyel, mental problems, no social life, etc.Forget the fact they spent they're entire life in dark room for 18 hours a day since age 9 playing video games and jacking off to weird porn. That had nothing to do with it.Its bread's fault you're a fat bitch with no friends and gyno tits.
>>74297807They add bromine to American breads. Stop eating that shit it's fucking with your thyroid.
>>74299139You are so far gone it's unreal.
>>74304671Thank you for providing such a stunning counterpoint. You really convinced me.
Seems like this thread has been hijacked by "arguing" bots the same way every single /srg/ thread is hijacked on /x/. Seems that TPTB really don't want people discussing the carnivore diet. Very interesting.
>>74298014Ryebread motherfucker, you ever had it? Barley and Rye are probably the best bread types you can get/make yourself, also make yourself some stews.
>>74305502>if a thread isn't full of people affirming my personal beliefs then it must be bots
>>74299023vegetables should be the majority of your diet, fruit is basically just nature's candy and is about as shit
>>74305598>fruit is basically just nature's candy and is about as shitName one micronutrient you can find in vegetables but not fruit.
>>74305618who cares, enjoy raping your blood sugar levels with unnecessary fruit eating
>>74302818Yes, anything involving söybean oil is goyslop. Do you have any further questions? Also, >eggs + oilYour mayonnaise contains about 10 more ingredients than just those two.
>>74306099Countless studies show fruit has gentle effects on blood sugar and even reverses diabetes. The more fruit diabetics eat, the better their blood sugar control. Where did you hear that fruit "rapes" blood sugar?
>>74306099>fruit>raping blood sugar
>>74306099>who caresAhh, so you admit that there's absolutely no reason to ever eat a vegetable since anything you can find in a vegetable, you can also find in fruit. Thank you for your honesty.As for the rest of your post, as >>74306157 said, a diet with lots of fruit has been proven over and over to literally reverse diabetes. The BEST thing you can do for you insulin sensitivity is eat lots of fruit. Once again, your autism has made you blind to nuance and you've confused yourself into thinking>highly processed corn syrup is bad therefore all forms of sugar are bad
>>74297807I quit eating that shit years ago because of the old school remove for body comp ethos: remove bread, rice, pasta, sugar. People used to do this all the time for vacations, weddings, etc. I just never ate it again because after a month of abstaining I felt so good. Again this was common knowledge by from athletes to housewives decades ago. The truly depressing thing is the fact there are enough brainwashed mongoloids that they actually begin white knighting for goyslop which is unfathomable to me. It is actually that bad. In this very thread there is a guy seething because he thinks fruit has a magic type of sugar that doesn't affect your blood sugar. He actually exists and is allowed to vote. These threads are not about the food, it's about how such a large percentage are so weak willed and broken that they begin to vomit forth incorrect establishmentarianisms they had absolutely no will to resist at any point in their lives. These are black pill threads about the state of your own people.
>>74297807Anon, bread very good make very good teeth AAAAHH!
>>74306271>he thinks fruit has a magic type of sugar that doesn't affect your blood sugarNo one has claimed that ITT. If you're implying that fruit and processed sugar (white sugar, corn syrup) have the same effects on blood sugar, you are retarded or intentionally being dishonest.
>>74306271>In this very thread there is a guy seething because he thinks fruit has a magic type of sugar that doesn't affect your blood sugar.You have no understanding of how blood sugar is affected by diet so it's not surprising that your recommendations are based on urban legends from "housewives decades ago". Unfortunately, even "decades ago", it was well known that an extremely high carb diet is therapeutic in diabetics. Here, allow me to help:>https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/5319129/>fasting blood glucose levels decreased, glucose tolerance improved, and insulin requirements were either unchanged or decreased, when patients with insulin-dependent diabetes were fed carbohydrate-rich diets.”>https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/13591100/>In agreement with the short-term results in the present study, they demonstrated that long-term, high carbohydrate ingestion did not impair glucose tolerance and caused no increase in insulin requirements>https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM197103112841004>To evaluate the effect of increased dietary carbohydrate in diabetes mellitus, glucose and immunoreactive insulin levels were measured in normal persons and subjects with mild diabetes maintained on basal (45 per cent carbohydrate) and high carbohydrate (85 per cent carbohydrate) diets. Fasting plasma glucose levels fell in all subjects and oral glucose tolerance (0 to 120-minute area) significantly improved after 10 days of high carbohydrate feeding.>https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/13984377/>in normal persons and subjects with mild diabetes there was an improvement in diabetic control as measured by fasting glucose levels and glucose tolerance, on the dietary extreme of 85% of the calories supplied as the simple sugar dextrose.”
>>74306568>Unfortunately, even "decades ago", it was well known that an extremely high carb diet is therapeutic in diabetics.AHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHA
>/fit/ is still eating breadPlease God please tell me this isn't real. Please the fitness board is not filled with people like this.
>>74306878>b-but this doesn't agree with what doctor shekelberg told me about sugar and diabetes????You're welcome to read any of the studies I provided as evidence. I understand that it's difficult to come to terms with the fact that you've been lied to but typing "hahaha" is not a rebuttal, my ESL friend.
>>74306905Some of us aren't 30%bf lard asses
>>74299059>the boomers from 10 years ago who were putting bacon in and on everythingYou mean Millenials, brainlet?
>>74306966>eating tons of sugar is actually good for fighting diabetes!That's what you are saying.Also, how did you get a computer Mr. Flinstone? Those studies you've got are a little outdated. They seem to be from the 50s - 70s.>https://www.eurekaselect.com/article/122834>https://www.mdpi.com/1660-4601/19/16/10429>https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11892-021-01399-z>https://www.hindawi.com/journals/jobe/2012/258624/
>>74306151>Your mayonnaise contains about 10 more ingredients than just those two.>OMG it has INGREDIENTS!!!!!! INGREDIENTS ARE BAD AHHH!!!!imagine being afraid of some mayonnaise .What ever health or life problems you have or imagine you have has nothing to do with eating mayonnaise.
>>74306099these are the people giving advice on 4chan.When a 4chancel says dont eat bread, that's good indictation you should be eating bread.
>>74307105>eating tons of sugar is actually good for fighting diabetes!Yes, this is correct so long as it's in the context of a high carb, low fat diet. Diabetes is caused by the glucose-fatty acid cycle in which fats and carbs compete for absorption and result in abnormally lengthy periods of elevated blood sugar. How are you on this board without understanding basic shit like the Randle cycle? >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randle_cycle>Those studies you've got are a little outdated.I'm sorry, do you imagine that the human body has undergone significant changes in the past 50 years? The 1950s were unironically the peak of Western civilization and, not coincidentally, were also the last period during which white scientists were allowed to freely research without having to worry about modern social cancers. Research from that era should be considered as the gold standard, because it is.That said, I appreciate your hasty googling of some articles supposedly in support of your position. Let's take a look, shall we?
>>74307105>https://www.eurekaselect.com/article/122834To begin we have a study on a keto diet by one "Rajesh Kumar Jha". I like that you've rejected studies done by white men in favor of one from a guy literally named Rajesh, but I guess you're doing your best. This study claims that a ketogenic diet improves insulin sensitivity in diabetics. Sure, maybe it does. If you take the time to educate yourself with the link I posted above regarding the Randle cycle, you'll understand why a diet that is high carb, low fat and a diet that is high fat, low carb would both improve insulin sensitivity.>https://www.mdpi.com/1660-4601/19/16/10429Ahh, another keto study, this one by "Chong Zhou" and "Meng Wang". You don't like white people, huh? Well, as I said above, whether or not a keto diet improves insulin sensitivity has nothing to do with my posts. Both diets should be helpful.>https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11892-021-01399-zKeto keto god damn, you have a one track mind, huh? At least the authors are white this time. See above; the glucose fatty-acid cycle tells us that any diet that avoids combining fats and carbs will improve insulin sensitivity.>https://www.hindawi.com/journals/jobe/2012/258624/Ahaha oh my, evolutionary biology for the finish. Again, see above. You don't need this kind of theory crafting to explain why people develop diabetes on diets that are high in both fats and carbs, especially when the fats are from plant sources (ie non-saturated). As far as the theory goes, there are no hunter-gatherers on the planet who reject carbs. Even extreme outliers like the Inuit went to great lengths to forage any kind of carbs they could find - berries, tubers, etc.
'ate bread'ate seeds'ate carbs (not a nutritionist just don't like em)luv meatluv fatluv vegsimple as
>>74307415Based. You don't need carbs or seeds. Just eat meat and fruits.
>>74307472>You don't need carbs or seeds. Just eat meat and fruits.I mean, that was the basic human diet for until the most recent 10,000 years or so. I don't know why people ride so hard for shit we didn't eat for 99% of our existence.
>>74297807I stopped eating bread and chips about 4 months ago.. After only about 3-4 weeks food started to taste soooo much better.Although I love bread for easy quick energy I think its poison
>>74299059>makes no mention of politics>OMG, right wing chuds and boomers they are right wing and dont actually enjoy things they just do it to dunk on the browns and libs. everything they do is politically motivated, it's all they can think about. AHHHHk
>>74297807Most people on keto never actually tried a healthy diet, they are just marvelling that keto makes them loose weight more than thier cola, snack cakes, frozen fried food diet did.
>>74306495With childhood diabetes my friend was prone to hypoglycemia. He would was directed by his Dr. to eat an orange or have some candies if that happened. He would use both. Both worked. Both effected his blood sugar the same and yielded identical results. The sugar in fruit is sugar, shut the fuck up, keep gargling your yummy nummy faggot smoothies and telling yourself it's health food, no one cares what you eat, but quit trying to separate it into categories to wrongly convince other people to be as retarded as you you phoney lying piece of gay shit..
>>74306568>https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8397683/Then bam, this one came out. It's too bad for you I guess. Remind us though, those studies you posted were the test subjects keeping up their insulin dosages throughout? Because if they were then those studies are toilet paper, lol. In fact you quoted part of one saying there was no need for them to increase insulin. Indicating there no attempt tovget the subjects off medication at all. Is this the metric you people use for someone being "healthy"? They don't need to take even more medication and aren't currently dying? You faggot shill cunt, doesn't surprise me you have such a low bar.
>>74307832>has his personal beliefs challenged>instantly rages>narrates some anecdote from his childhood as if it's irrefutable fact>rages some moreWhy are midwits like this? Literal apes just screaming at things they're too dumb to understand.
>>74307886>Remind us though, those studies you posted were the test subjects keeping up their insulin dosages throughout?So you want to debate them but you didn't bother to read them? I can see that you didn't even read the excerpts I posted because if you had, you could answer your own question:>>74306568>insulin requirements were either unchanged or decreased, when patients with insulin-dependent diabetes were fed carbohydrate-rich dietsSo yes, in most of these studies diabetic patients did improve to the extent that they were able to reduce or even eliminate their insulin intake. I understand that zoomers have pathetically low attention spans but please, for your own sake, you should at least strive to be able to pay attention long enough to understand a single post.As for your keto study, we've already been over this. I'll direct you to my posts here:>>74307363>>74307409Both high fat, low carb and high carb, low fat diets are therapeutic in diabetes. This is not an either-or situation; any diet that prevents the glucose-fatty acid cycle will have a similar effect. Read the article about the Randle cycle if this confuses you.
>>74307941I'll just quickly go over some things here.When I spoke of age of studies, it is noting the reliability of a study in itself, not that which it concerns.You speak of a "good era" yet seem to suggest that what comes after that comes from a vacuum, as if by magic.Second, even if we did all agree that yes, you can increase insulin sensitivity with very high carb diet with low fat, it would still not mean that it is a diet someone should follow. Your teeth would decay from so many carbs and it is not a sustainable way to live. That's the ultimate thing that matters to me, not some little victory within a context of a greater loss.You also speak of examples of peoples that would go out of their way to eat this or that plant, but ironically fail to mention how all that we eat has little resemblance in both quality, size, and quantity to which we would have eaten in the past, and I fail to see any mention on your part about which was most prized.It would be hard for me to believe that plants would be most valued.You would prioritize animal sources of nutrition and plants would be a backup of sorts, you would not eat them in very large quantities, and if you would, your teeth would rot and you'd keel over. So when I see a slice of bread, it is a slice of decay, much like what would be observed by W. Price.
>>74309052You have posted complimentary studies. Nothing you have posted contradicts my points or the studies I've cited.>Your teeth would decay from so many carbs and it is not a sustainable way to live.Tooth decay is caused by grains and starches, not sugars. The former adhere to tooth surfaces and encourage bacterial growth, while the latter dissolve and are washed away by saliva before this can occur. Humans have always eaten fruit and honey whenever they could find it but it was only after the Neolithic revolution and the development of agriculture that widespread dental caries begin to appear in the fossil record:>https://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1186&context=nebanthro>It would be hard for me to believe that plants would be most valued.With the exception of peoples living in extreme climates who have no other option, every hunter-gatherer group that has been studied has consumed more plants than animals.>plants would be a backup of sorts, you would not eat them in very large quantitiesEven for modern hunter-gatherers using things like bows and arrows which would have been space age technology to humans living 100,000 years ago, the majority of hunts are not successful. Fruit, tubers, and honey are a very consistent and reliable food source and there is no hunter-gatherer on the planet who would turn them down.>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadza_people>Honey represents a substantial portion of the Hadza diet (~10-20% of calories), which is similar to many other hunter-gatherer societies living in the tropics.This is not all carb sources, just honey. 20% of total calories, "similar to many other hunter-gatherer societies living in the tropics".You have no clue and your personal beliefs on the subject have nothing to do with reality. In all seriousness, spend some time educating yourself with something more substantial than keto blogs.
>>74307183>doesn't mention seed oils in his post>won't admit ultra-processed food with söybean oil is pretty much the definition of goyslop>throws a tantrum in all caps insteadEmbarrassing spastic post.
>>74307832>both have the same effect in a very specific case for a diabetic>therefore they are both exactly the same in all aspectsAnon, are you serious?
>>74309143Since tubers are a starch, wouldn't they cause tooth decay in hunter-gatherers if eaten in significant quantities?
>>74297807>Carbs bad!You people think you are such edgy meme lordsThis would be a stupid post if it were authored in 2009 by some wine drunk 40 something mom on facebook>I ate bread and it made me feel bad!Did you find it in a restaurants dumpster?
>>74309348So what specific health problems are caused by going through a jar of mayo every 6 months or so?And why do I not suffer from them?
>>74309407Did you respond to the right post? I'm not sure how your questions are relevant to what I said ITT.
>eating carbs
>>74309376>ignores 90% of the content of a post in order to nitpick what he imagines is a "gotcha!" pointThe 4chan debate style is so boring. Aren't you ashamed to have been conditioned to argue like a jew?Yes, a diet that is primarily tubers wouldn't be great for your teeth. What is your point here? Are you about to unveil the discovery of a tribe that eat mainly tubers? Because if not, they've never been anything but a starvation food. But thank you for being so consistently disingenuous.
>>74310160Keto kis almost a mental disease at this point. All athletes load up on carbs because they are efficient sources of energy. They burn readily. The people who built the pyramids (who were not slaves, but skilled laborers) subsisted on bread and beer. Literally, you can look it up.Literally the ONLY reason keto would be beneficial to you is if you were sedentary as fuck and did fuck-all shit all goddamn day to the point where you can't even get the easily-gotten steps of a fitbit quota. That is a dogshit life. Doing so little and being so inactive to the point where you can't even burn the carbs you eat is a dogshit existence. You don't need to fix your diet. You need to fix your life. Period.
>>74311688>unveil the discovery of a tribe that eat mainly tubers?Ireland, 1800's?
>>74297807buy suet fro ma local butcher instead. eat it raw with some salt. have a cheap roast cut up into steaks and have a thin slice of that too. it will be better than bread, espeically for you if bread makes you groggy
>>74300970he is right. Fibre and seeds are the ingredients for "gruel" gruel was used to feed slaves for thousands of years because it gave them enough energy to work without making them strong. I cut out all plant foods and only ate beef and i didnt exercise and my muscles exploded in growth in like 1 month. They are lying to us, plants are not that good for you.I stopped outside the matrix and looking in is just insane desu. you are all brainwashed cattle. that fucking bald youtube schizo who eats raw meat was right.
>>74299110Grains are some of the most ancient foods humans consume you idiot.
>>74297807ok, give me good alternatives for example breakfast, a snack and so on if not bread or oats.
>>74312065By about 12,000 years ago, which places it in the latest part of history alongside other manmade horror foods, like seed oil, pop tarts, and whatever the fuck tofu is.
>>74297807The problem is that your body absorbs it too fast. Don't eat as much at once and it wont be a problem.
>>74312162>old betterYeah? Where are all the cavemen skyscrapers
>coworker offered me part of a donut they made from scratch this morning to share, didn't want to decline>can't sleep tonight at allwheat and sneed oils are the devils work
>>74306157>>74306165>>74306253>>74307188t. the yeast in your brains and guts raging against someone shitting on its food supplykeep eating those fruits goys, large amounts of fructose totally doesn't force your liver to make blood sugar adjustments which stresses the metabolism and fruit totally contains all the same trace nutrients as vegetables, especially in the same amount, and not basically just sugar + water
>>74299119>>74300727>>74300775>>74312065Grain defense force at full speed, you read the first sentence and went insane kek
Are wheat fags as bad as coffee fags?
>>74312840wheat fags are right, modern wheat is hybridized dogshit, much like eating hybridized feedlot-raised cows, modern farming is "quantity > quality" with the ">" being a rusty dagger covered in shit
>eat literally 10g of bread >gain 2kg throughout the day and don't lose any weight for 3 dayThanks, wheat.
>>74312065Meat is the most ancient food for humans to consume lol grains were invented to feed slaves
>>74297807What type of bread?
I like hummus without bread.
>>74314311>brown hands typed this
>>74297807Quirrk Chungus tier post
>>74311688It was just a question. I'm not the anon you're arguing with.
>>74297807>I feel like a gluggy retard in the head.Always have been
>>74298509>What is actually the problem with eating grainUnless you are a celiac there is none. Ignore all the intellectual wanking you see in this thread.
>>74299436You’ve literally done nothing but make claims with no evidence, then when asked to verify those claims you say gay shit like “you’re just nitpicking semantics”No, you retarded troglodyte rape baby faggot, that’s called being called out on your nonsense claims. You make things up then cry like a bitch when confronted. Fuck you, fuck all of your made up opinions, and fuck the people that have espoused FAGGOTS like you into believing you can just spout fucking dogshit nonsense and get away with it.Kill yourself. NEVER post again. You know NOTHING.
>>74302355>We can tell when a given region developed agriculture because, aside from the formation of population centers, the skeletal remains of people who adopted a grain-based diet are riddled with cavities, smaller and weaker jaws, nutrient deficiencies, and so forth.this is a skull of a medieval german that was mistaken for a mesolithic hunter gatherer skull due to how robust it wasits diet? grain based
>>74302367>Did you never hear how people in medieval times were like 5'3" on average?medieval danish and dutch farmers were 5'7-5'8 on average
>>74312645>fruit totally contains all the same trace nutrients as vegetablesCorrect. You're welcome to take a shot at >>74305618 if you like but I bet you won't.>>74315613>You’ve literally done nothing but make claims with no evidenceI've provided quite a bit of evidence>>74306568You can pretend it's not there if you want but that won't make it go away. Throwing a little tantrum like you're doing now certainly won't make the facts go away.>>74315673>was mistaken for a mesolithic hunter gatherer skull due to how robust it wasSo you've found an outlier that proves my point? The skull wouldn't have been "mistaken" for a mesolithic human if such robustness were the norm for post-Neolithic skeletons. There are always outliers but they don't disprove the norm. You can reference the paper here >>74302257.
>>74307415Dangerously based
>>74299139>From the standpoint of health, you should never be eating meat that doesn't come from ruminants.Chickenbros...
>>74297866>>74297870This is what goyslop does to your brain. Avoid kike trickery at all costs.
>>74314311Hear me out: homemade pickled carrots
>>74312645>blood sugar adjustmentslmao wtf does this even mean? Are you referring to "insulin resistance" or "pre-diabetes?" Eating large amounts of fruit doesn't cause this. In fact it causes the opposite. Diabetics eating fruit reverse their diabetes.
So weak, he can't handle a wittle bwead. :(
For everyone ITT saying that grains are bad for you, can I please get a list of good meats and plants to eat? Because the same people are saying bacon, cooked eggs, chicken, fish, etc. are all bad for you too.
>>74316441>le racism will help me defend my position that carbs are badThis is peak reddit. Go the fuck back you schizophrenic newfag.
>>74317884ruminants and wild seafood
>>74317884get calories from people by osmosis without eatinggo in crowded rooms and do cawory medications that pull nutrients and macros from the people around youthis way you don't get the ill side effects
>>74297807absolutely agree. For everyone here advocating a high-carb diet - if you work out frequently, mainly weight training, and you burn all the carbs you eat (I would hope those carbs are unprocessed and low-GI,) then a high-carb diet works for you. Carbs are great short-term muscle fuel, in contrast there is evidence carb-free is superior for low-intensity, sustained exercise over longer periods. If you suddenly ate an Atkins/keto/carnivore diet, or just started fasting, you would feel like absolute shit for two days if you were carb-adapted. Similarly, if OP is fat-adapted and suddenly floods with body with low-GI carbs, he will also feel like shit. This is homeostasis at work. Personally, I don't do extensive weight training (though I probably look better than anyone here advocating for slave food,) so a low carb diet works for me. Since I started fasting regularly, and focused my diet on whole, unprocessed, low-carb, healthy-fat food, I have felt so much fucking better. It's unbelievable, not to mention the mental health benefits that have recently become the subject of more serious study. The Atkins diet is diagnosed to epileptic kids as treatment in the UK, and has implications for ADHD as well. Not to mention, countless historical figures throughout history have written of how clear-minded they felt while fasting (ie. they're fat adapted, which is what also happens when you don't eat carbs.) cunt
>>74318435fact of the matter is nature intended for you to eat carbs
>>74318456Maybe some honey before our ancestors hunted a bison. Again, helps with strenuous short-term exercise. You neglect to mention after the hunt, our ancestors subsisted off the animal's meat, fat and organs for the next 2 weeks, like every other top of the food chain predatorial animal. Retard.
>>74318498>our ancestors and what they didliterally has nothing to do with what I saidnature intended for you to consume carbs
>>74318508It has everything to do with what you said, you just have poor comprehension due to your diet. In nature, carbs are a natural energy drink. Would you live solely off Redbull? Because to our ancestors, honey and carbs are Redbull equivalent. If only you ate as I suggested. I can help with your autism.
>>74318498You're wrong. We're designed to consume carbs. That's why our bodies produce salivary amylase while animals like dogs and cats do not.
>>74318546>strawmanok ketobrain
>>74318546>In nature, carbs are a natural energy drink. Would you live solely off Redbull?There is nothing in nature like a redbull. Foods high in carbohydrates come with fibre to slow the sugar release so your comparison doesn't work.
>>74318435>>74318498>>74318565I can't imagine how you could get this low IQ other than doing keto. Keto literally causes brainfog and makes you retarded.
>>74297807Bread was invented by Kevin Kellogg in conjunction with the Rand Corporation. If anyone says otherwise they work for the bread industry or glow (or both).
>>74318584He's selectively choosing what he wants to listen to in order to justify his chosen lifestyle. Trying his absolute best to ignore that the vast majority of people are healthier when eating a balanced diet.
>>74318552You can remain a hungry dog, drooling, with your amylase gene that evolved strictly for times when superior food sources weren't available, meanwhile civilized people like myself will consume a sustainable diet that keeps my mind clear and my body lean and toned. You'll never experience how good I feel and I feel sorry for you>>74318557> muh strawman argument> muh red herring fallacyYou're not smart, fuck off>>74318584it would cause brainfog for you because your body is not adapted to burning consistent fuel like fats. It is adapted to glucose, which is unstable and inconsistent
high meat low carb diet makes DOMS and lactic acid burn disappear
>>74318601>makes a retarded false equivalent >expects me to argue with himketobrain moment
>>74318601It's you're using a hungry dog as an insult when they can't produce salivary amylase like we can. Do you not understand the hole in your logic suggesting we can evolve something as complex as salivary amylase as a failsafe if you genuinely think we've only evolved to digest carbs in a relatively short amount of time in our natural history? I thought you ancestor wanks we're all about evolution so surely you'd understand something would need to subsist in our diet repeatedly and for an extended period for us to need to evolve the adaptation to make it easier on us right?Also lol @ glucose being unstable and incosistent when it's our brains preferred energy source. Maybe that's why you're stupid cause you aren't feeding your brain what it needs
>>74318631glucose is fast fuel for the muscles. Our ancestors lived off meat and fats, so this was a powerful energy boost for them regardless of fiber content. Nowadays, people eat carbs all the time, and use redbull for energy instead. You wouldn't live off redbull, just as our ancestors didn't live off carbs. Do you understand now you tiktok addict broccoli hair faggot?
>>74318653>glucose is fast fuel for the muscles.No, that's glycogen. The stored form of glucose.
>>74318653>people use red bull for energy insteadreading this comment made me realize you must be some some sub 90 iq retardUNIRONICALLY
>>74318652>glucose is preferred source of energy.There is no 'preferred' source. The brain uses what it gets. When no glucose is present, it uses ketones. Ketones, by the way, are neuroprotective. Did you know that they can slow the onset of neurodegenerative disease, and even significantly reduce alzheimers symptoms? You don't read academic literature, you look at the first google result. >salivary amylase We had carbs in our diet in the past, yes. They were never, and should not be, the primary source of fuel. When societies got the majority of their energy from glucose, their health got worse. Agrarian culture is a new development in human history. For the modern world, there is absolutely no need for carbs in your diet at all, unless you're either a bodybuilder or a manual laboror
>>74311707>I have to feed the fungus in my body because some roidhead performance athlete does so
>>74318653>and use redbull for energy instead.I'm sure that has nothing to do with the caffeine either. Don't act like your acestors didn't do similar things either, it's well known mayans chewed coca leaves to be able to march for longer
>>74318659Fuck off with the semantics dude. I'm giving you the big picture, and you know the point I'm making. Your addition doesn't change my point anyway, idiot>>74318669The way you type makes me realize you are under 18. Attend your biology class and check back in 5 years when you're of the appropriate age
>>74318701It's not semantics anon. If you're going to try and act smart at least get basic facts right. Assuming you even know the basic facts instead of your talking points of keto youtubers.
>>74318600I'll never do keto for this reason. He's a literal cultist. Worse than a mormon.
>>74318600'balanced diet' - western capitalist psyop to get you to eat cheaply produced wheat, grains, seeds and sugar that contribute to inflammation, diabetes, arthritis and neurodegeneration with age>>74318689I meant more about the sugar content with the redbull analogy. Swap it out with 'red cordial' instead and the point is clearer
>>74318717no one is telling you what to doif you want to fry your dopamine center by gorging on high-fructose corn syrup paste, then go aheadjust don't lie about the truth>>74318600>balanced dietyou mean the government recommended corporate sponsored "ideal diet" that is making everyone fat and stupid?sure
>>74318600I addressed what he said and you didn't read it. I'll spell it out for you again: he would get brainfog from keto because his body is adapted to carbs, not fat. If I started eating carbs, I would get brainfog, because my body is adapted to fat. You fucking idiot
>>74318729>high-fructose corn syrup pasteKeto brainfog, thinking in absolutes. Your cult really did a number on you.
>>74318682Glucose is the preferred energy of the brain. It's mostly comprised of neurons and they need atp to function. The brain is only 2% of your weight and consumes 20% of total glucose just to function.>https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10334137/Oh look, turns out grains are neuroprotective too anon. Maybe you should look at more than the first google result as well.>Agrarian culture is a new development in human history.And yet we've miraculously come up with a way to break down carbs more efficiently than dogs and cats which do not eat grains as their main diet. Almost like we've been eating it for longer and have adapted to use it in our body. Weird. Why do you think that is?
>>74318733You're a literal brain dead drooling keto retard, and you're the only one who doesn't notice. You're a ketoretard (read turbo autist)
>>74318729>i cant read the ingredients of what I buy help me HFCS is chasing me!!!!
>>74318735>we break down carbsI know that, we've been eating them for awhile. But they were never our main source of fuel until recently and shouldn't ever have become our main source of fuel.>https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10334137/I opened your paper there just for a laugh. From the very first line this is what it says:>Greater intake of whole grains, compared to refined grains, is consistently associated with a reduced risk of cardiovascular disease and type 2 diabetes, both of which are associated with cognitive declineIt says WHOLE GRAIN intake is better than REFINED GRAIN intake. This means slowly released glucose is comparatively better than quickly released glucose! No fucking shit, what a surprise! Damn, low carb fags BTFO! Can you not fucking read your own shit? You absolute faggot, making me open something you couldn't fucking even comprehend? You need less carbs in your life bro, you'd learn to read then
>>74318766>cant even read the title to comprehend what it is abouttruly ketobrain moment
>>74318735why are human brains shrinking
>>74318108>racism is reddit
>be European >eat bread every day, don't get fat >be American >ate bread once and is now 40 bmi, low energy and brain fog 24/7Sounds like a skill issue
>>74297866>>74297870>>74297887How is this faggot always online and always samefagging/spamming threads non-stop. Do you seriously have no life at all? We already know from previous threads that you are a a fat cicosister who will never post body no matter how many people post theirs to you. Absolutely no one likes you on the site. Why do you live here all day and night? It's so fucking sad.
>>74304380S O U R C EOURCE
>>74318836I couldn't tell you and anyone who says they can are lying.
>>74318766>But they were never our main source of fuel until recently and shouldn't ever have become our main source of fuel.Yea of course that totally makes sense we would adapt a very efficient system to break down carbs before they even hit out stomach that cats and dogs don't have because it's totally an after thought of evolution. Totally makes sense and isn't you just larping as epic reddit hunter>This means slowly released glucose is comparatively better than quickly released glucose!Oh cool so does that mean you're willing to admit that fruit is good for you?
>>74318659>No, that's glycogen. The stored form of glucose.No, that's creatine-phosphate, which is why eating creatine (only found in meat) is important.
>>74318600>the vast majority of peopleThe vast majority of people are fat, sick, and unhealthy. In the US isn't it like 50% are obese, 80% are overweight? You definitely should not be looking to the "vast majority of people" for any health advice.>balanced dietStupid nonsense. Most foods in the grocery store are designed to slowly kill you over time. Actual healthy diets abstain from 90% of the food in the grocery store, making them very unbalanced.
