Pipe Smoke EditionOld Thread: >>23350723
>>23388168Is it true that there isn't a single reference through the entire series to someone smoking?
>>23388168this hack doesn't deserve his own general
Why does George actually know how to write magic? He knows it’s more psychological than anything, which is something people like Brandon Sanderson don’t fathom.
>>23388206IMO, George writes magic the best out of any modern fantasy writer. Too many series have gone for the Harry Potter method of magic, where magic is understood and comprises off saying the right words or having the right ingredients. As George put it, magic should be a force of nature, not at all understood and only usable by a few individuals, who themselves don't fully understand why or how they can use it.
WHEN THE HECK IS WINDS OF WINTERINO COMING OUT?? WHY DOESN'T THIS PIECE OF SHITERINO BELUGA WHALE FUCK RELEASE THE HECKIN BOOK ALREADY?! I FUCKING HATE THIS LIFE END MY MISERY
No pedo hat. :(
>>23388172They be on that sourleaf, but yeah no one smokes as far as I remember. I think the idea is that he tries to avoid new world crops, and smoking wasn't common in Europe before tobacco was brought over from the Americas. Now you'll say "but anon, he mentions corn all the time" the word corn was originally used for multiple types of grain, and it's still even used for things like salt, which is what the "corn" in corned beef is.>>23388206I love Georges magic, but that doesn't make other magic systems bad. Sanderson does a lot of cool things with his hard magic rules. Rowling's magic is really charming and cozy, even when it's "dark" magic there's still a whimsical, not so serious, aspect to it. Rothfuss' magic is a fantastic mixture of it all, he really tried to get as much of it in there as possible but it's really tempered and carefully used. You know it's possible for someone to fling a fireball, but he's never gauche enough to write a scene or character that would even think it's a good use of magic. Any type of magic system can be good.
>>23388507Hard magic is disingenuous.
>>23388776How so?
>>23388798I’m tired of having to explain it. So fucking tired. Sorry.
>>23388813For real. Somebody needs to make an unironic copypasta of hard magic's faults.
>>23388813>>23388839You got nothing.
>>23388776If you have a retarded opinion you wish to express, allegedly many times over >>23388813, you better be ready to defend it at every turn faggot. Speak your piece or suck a dick.
>>23388892>>23388857NTA but it's not that. The case has been literally made so many times in the past few days it's kinda insane how much it's been talked about. I saw an anon post a good explanation in another thread so I'll see if I can find it but essentially, it has to do with the fact that magic as a concept itself is shrouded by mystery and wonder (sometimes horror, depending on what you want to convey). The very fact you make a magic system "hard" kinda defeats the whole point of it and makes it akin to a science. It doesn't mean people in that world can't try and study the magic but the harder you make it, the less magic it feels. Think of it as a magician showing you a magic trick. You have fun experiencing it for the first time but once it's explained how the trick works, it takes the "magic" out of it, so to speak. That's why a magician never reveals his secrets, which is something GRRM does pretty well
>>23388857>>23388892>>23388798Found it:Hard magic systems are more unbelievable than soft magic systems, since it is foolish to think everyone would agree on what magic is systemically. It ignores societal psychology. It’s why science isn’t considered magic, despite descending from it.Soft magic? It can literally be anything as long as it isn’t understood fully. That’s “magic”. A veil of mystery you place over something. A sleight of view. Words like occult, the arcane, esoteric, mysticism, etc, denote as much. It is even in the latter’s name.Magic is a soft term, not a hard term. Closer to proxy/placeholder than anything concrete. A gap. It exists the same way dark, cold, or holes, exist. It is an absence. An absence of understanding, an absence of agreement, etc. Magic to one is not going to be magic to another. In academia, academics had to settle. They had to agree. Magic is disagreeable.Initiation and exclusivity are also big parts of it. Exposure logic. Entering the gates to Wonderland. Magic lies within the mind's eye.Even Tolkien understood this, and he is intentionally ironic and contradictory when it comes to magic: His elves don't even believe in (elven) magic. The black machines of Mordor are likened to black magic. He enjoyed the mystique that came with the confusion, but he also hated modernity's war against the magic and mystery and art of nature. Magic to the elves is just Art.In the scientific world, where everything is deconstructed/reconstructed, you eventually realize that magic IS "magic". You apply it ("magic") to something. Anything. It is the sufficiently bewildering, the sufficiently mysterious, wondrous, etc.If mystery, wonder, horror, etc, make magic, or keeps the magic, then ignorance is the greatest magic of all.
>>23388857See >>23384195 (>>23367788)Magic is a black box. Functional ignorance. No different from stage magic. No different from religion. Those who open black boxes oftentimes put themselves into ones. At its simplest, you had the ancients looking to the stars in the night sky, considering them gods.The modern day sorcerer is the mad scientist poking at the unknown. >>23388978Yes. This.
>>23388960>Think of it as a magician showing you a magic trick. You have fun experiencing it for the first time but once it's explained how the trick works, it takes the "magic" out of it, so to speak. That's why a magician never reveals his secrets, which is something GRRM does pretty wellAlso this. You don’t ask a magician for their secrets. Magic is a magician in its own right. It’s actually rather obvious. What does the physicist say when they confront something new and/or bewildering?— “Hmm, that’s strange, I wonder how that happened…”Sound familiar?
>>23388978>>23388990>>23389003Why didn’t I see it before
>>23389054Fantasy logic has been hijacked.
I'll repost what I wrote in the previous thread to keep the discussion alive:Unpopular opinion: ASOIAF would be much better without Jon and Daenerys.>greater focus on Westeros politics>not wasting time on a bunch of things happening on a continent nobody cares about>still have the Others, mainly through Bran POV>would still have plenty of magic involving Euron, Bran, and Arya POVs>their characters are pretty boring anyways
>>23389054because those are two different threads and not the previous general for grrm>>23388776I agree that magic should be mysterious but I don't think it's disingenuous at all to have hard magic rules. It's still magic because it's shit that's typically impossible to achieve in our reality, based on rules or world building elements that are also not possible within our reality. Some might try to say hard magic is science fiction but it's not because it typically doesn't rely on (realistic or plausible) applications of technology, application of energy and its sources, or tools we use to examine or manipulate our actual reality. Read Master of The Five magics or Kingkiller Chronicle, both books have a hard magic system that works in tandem with softer magics. The hard magic does not lose any of its magical qualities because there's more than enough room for both the reader and author to explore strange applications of the magic because it's inherently not actual science or math, it's magic. Completely impossible at its very core when it relies on being powered by manipulating magic (something that does not exist and doesn't follow any rules of physics), or psychic ability which is also just another form of magic.
>>23389143kinda hope that jon stays dead
>>23389189It's disingenuous if it's not at the edge of our understanding.
>>23389252It makes me wonder if you've ever read anything with a hard magic system, the characters and readers (and arguably the writers) don't know everything about the magic and typically discover new things about it as the story progresses and both reader and characters know that there's more to be discovered, that there are new ways to manipulate it. Maybe you're getting caught up on the word "hard". Hard doesn't mean it's as well understood as a slab of rock through our modern developments and studying of geology, chemistry, and molecular or atomic structure. Hard magic just means there's a set of rules applied to the magic so it literally doesn't break the world or story, that it gives author and their characters a way to problem solve in a clever way rather than the use of unexplained miracles. Even soft magic systems will have rules to stop this (typical examples are not being able to create money or food). Hard magic doesn't mean that there's nothing left to discover, or anything new to accomplish.
>>23389318I hate that I'm saying this, but Eragon sorta has a decent hard magic system.
>>23389240Got a feeling the glamour Mel used is going to come into play rather than it be a Berrick giving Catelyn the kiss of life type deal. It had way too much focus early on for it not to be important
>>23389143Disagree on Jon. I think he's an important POV for the Others. Dany, though, could've been axed completely and only relegated to rumors. Maybe just leave her for epilogues for the important parts. Dany literally is slowing ASOIAF to a halt and I don't think there's any way around this.
>>23389318Rules and understanding go hand-in-hand. There are rules to nature. Science is a process, and if it works, it is science. — “Remember kids, the only difference between proper science and fucking around is writing is down.”The issue with hard magic is it conflicts with external perceptions. Everyone has their own soft, personal take on magic.It’s not a hard term to begin with. It can’t be. Anyone can use the word to refer to anything out of the ordinary.Magic in the soft sense is subjective, or closer to a blanket term, for anything that is sufficiently mysterious, wondrous, blasphemous, etc.It’s not supposed to be hard. And if it is, it’s “hard” not hard, in the sense that it’s still mired in mystery or ostracizing.
>they’re stupid for thinking it’s magic >they’re stupid for thinking it’s not magic he’s right
>My wife and I saw you from across the bar, and we really hate your vibe.
>>23388960>>23388978And? Is there a point here? You're saying magic is mystery and wonder, which is false and you admit as much since hard magic specifically works more like science than magic. And so hard magic is disingenuous as long as it doesn't function like soft magic?? This is the whole argument, semantics really? You're trying to put a pin on an umbrella term like "magic" which is not something one can do. As far as mysticism goes, its usually a spectrum. If there's a reason aside from laziness for an author to designate a phenomenon as "magic" it is because at least in part, it is not fully understood. The degree of it is what will then be classified as hard or soft. Would you have seethed had they called bending magic instead in ATLOTA? Honestly, whata dumb discussion.
>>23389331Dany is gonna tie in with prophecy, Illyrio’s plot and the Dornish plot. But yeah so far she’s been a slog.
this stupid hard magic shit gets spammed in the catalog all week and the only time the discussion is vaguely civil is in here
>>23389914In two books she's going to need to take more action and get more shit done than she has in the last five combined.
>>23389451Would. Stannis the Mannis is my idol.
>>23389927/grrm/ is a very civil and friendly thread.
https://theweek.com/feature/briefing/1022767/a-complete-timeline-of-george-rr-martins-progress-on-the-winds-of-winterThis man is a consummate liar.
>>23390578>Realistically, it's going to take me three years to finish the next one at a good pace>April 2011holy shit lmao
>>23389143Nah. Their purpose (especially Jon's) is the true "subversion" of the fantasy genre that George was attempting to pull off. >no you can't breed a magic baby to fulfill prophecy and solve all the world's problems that's retarded
>>23388168Oh if only [character] made [wildly out of character] decision
>>23390920if ned stark had just read The Prince the series would have been done by now.
>>23389819>You're trying to put a pin on an umbrella term like "magic" which is not something one can do.That's the point being made, in-fact.Literally anyone can use the word for literally anything sufficiently "uhh I don't know".Although they don't have to use it, it is still effectively an umbrella term by default.
>>23388507Eurasian peoples smoked cannabis before the introduction of tobacco. At the very least we should see Dornish and Ghiscari peoples smoking hashish, since they are modelled after middle eastern cultures who did smoke it before the introduction of tobacco.I'd even extend it to the free cities personally. Have even Varys be smoking from a hookah.
>>23389819>Would you have seethed had they called bending magic insteadThis is also the point being made. You may be misreading. Magic is relative, and what is magic to one is not going to be magic to another.It’s all relative logic.Example A: The Jedi in Star Wars don’t refer to the Force as magic or sorcery like the Sith or other Force-attuned groups do. The Mandalorians still call the Jedi wizards. The Sith recognize the irony as well.Example B: In Avatar the Last Airbender they casually tell the viewer (as a sort of joke or nod to this sort of logic) that elemental bending isn’t magic, even though it clearly is to the viewer, just not to the characters.Example C: In Tolkien’s middle-earth, the elves don’t believe in (elven) magic, since it’s all just Art to them, and the black machines of Mordor are likened to black magic. The maiar are seen by the elves the same way they are seen by men.That’s all this is. Magic isn’t anything even in fiction. It's an angle.
>>23391240They have hemp in Westeros so at the very least they have a cannabis style plant. I imagine George didn't want to introduce the plant since it clashes with the aesthetic.
>>23391240>>23391283The Warlocks of Qarth probably have stashes of high quality drugs in places, being psychedelically addled mystics.
>>23390920>Oh if only Catelyn hadn't been a dumb woman, then then the War of the Five Kings wouldn't have happened
>>23390601>it's going to take me three years to finish the next one>13 years and counting
>>23391643this picture is amazing
>>23388168Winds of Winter WILL COME OUT THIS YEAR
>>23391229>>23391244Why respond to a five year old who doesnt even read your posts?
>>23392480Create a new thread if you wish to insist on your inane drivel, here's not the place.
>>23392530Im allowed to be perplexed by inadequate reading comprehension on the internet lol
In ASoIaF people conflate poisoners with sorcerers and alchemists with pyromancers all the damn time. They may as well be, depending.Readers also constantly fail to notice that Melisandre isn't actually a true charlatan when she is herself fooling herself about her god. Truth isn't a requirement in religion, it's just not, as that defeats the whole purpose and point of faith and belief to begin with.
>>23392581Ladders of ignorance... everyone is on a different, lower or higher, step...
>>23389819>You're saying magic is mystery and wonder, which is false and you admit as much since hard magic specifically works more like science than magicAt least proofread before you post, nigga. I personally don't consider hard magic that "magical", which was my entire point. The mysterious aspect of magic falls apart when you turn it into a science, that's kinda what we're saying. It just does. You can call it "magic" but that's like calling the laws of gravity magic. It's not semantics and it's an interesting discussion. You sound like one of those centrist midwits>stop generalizing magic and just don't have any discussion about fake funny science in funny fiction books okay?!
>>23392530>>23389819>you can't talk about magic in a Mongolian basket weaving forum in a fantasy thread>B-BECAUSE YOU JUST CAN'T, OKAY?!
>>23392581Imagine if R'hllor was some troll wizard from afar using a glass candle. The same way the green seers are the Old Gods.
>>23392581Wait, I thought everyone who read the books would think Melisandre was a true believer and that she really was seeing visions in the flames. That's what I did.
>>23392704She is, but she also enhances her seeming with alchemical tricks.
>>23389930It's possible because she's gonna finally snap and start killing people left and right
>>23390601Eh the issue is that's when the TV show started. He's a bad estimator but if the TV show didn't happen it would have been possible.
>>23393568
A liberal homosexual feminist Protestant was teaching a class on George R.R. Martin, known hack”Before the class begins, you must get on your knees and worship Gurm and accept that Planetos is the greatest fantasy setting of all time even greater than Arda!”At this moment, a brave, patriotic, British WW1 veteran who had served 1500 tours of duty on the Somme and understood the necessity of war and fully supported all decisions made by Butcher Haig stood up.”What are the linguistic differences among the peoples of Westeros?”The arrogant proddie smirked quite schismatically and smugly replied “There is the Old Tongue and the Common Tongue, you stupid warmonger””Wrong. There should be hundreds of dialects. If the Wall is 8000 years old as you say, how can the Wildlings and Northmen understand one another?”The HBO shill was visibly shaken, and dropped his chalk and copy of A World of Ice and Fire. He stormed out of the room crying those redditor crocodile tears. The same tears redditors (who today live in such luxury most can afford sex changes) cried when Missandei was beheaded. There is no doubt that at this point our sola scriptura-faggot wished he had pulled himself up by his bootstraps and become more than a garbage pulp fiction fan. He wished so much he could die a glorious death in battle, but he had sworn to always be a draft dodger!The students applauded and became Tolkien fans that day and accepted the Pope as their Lord and Master. A giant eagle named “Thorondor” flew into the room and perched atop the flag of Gondor and shed a tear on the White Tree. Beowulf was read in the original Old English several times, and Eru Ilúvatar himself showed up and enacted Aragorn's flat rate tax policy across the universe.The Lutheran was fired the next day and sunset found him squatting in the grass, groaning. Every stool was looser than the one before, and smelled fouler. By the time the moon came up he was shitting brown water.
>>23393846Kek
>>23391240i mean it's still a fantasy world, Dorne and Slaver's bay aren't 1:1 allegories to real world middle east. in the known world of planetos they just have chew, heroin, booze and psychedelic baja blast>>23391283medieval sources show that cannabis was present in britain but they didn't smoke it with pipes, just chucked it on a big fire >>23391283supposedly smoking was not the way it was consumed in the middle east until the introduction of tobacco from america. they were making old world equivalent of hash cookies while in europe it was pretty much only cultivated as industrial hemp until the 1800shttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_cannabis
>>23393846Why do people give such a shit about conlangs in worldbuilding? Unless you're a linguistics nerd, which is a small percentage of people, I don't see the big deal. Stuff like history, heraldry, personal relationships, religions etc. seems to flesh things out much more.>>23394126They would also have tents that were basically marijuana hotbox saunas.
>>23393846When the gurm fans weep and showfags gather, Tolkein will be born again amidst tax and foreign policy to wake linguistic realism out of stone
>No that's not magic! Shut up! THIS is Magic!Magic truly is indistinguishable from religion.
>>23394542They're fundamentally intertwined. Magic power is the same thing as divine power.
to add my 2 coppers to the magic system debate: I don't think magic needs to be shrouded in mystery to be an interesting literary device. the problem is that mystery is the greatest literary device of all. nothing will keep a reader's attention better than the desire to find out more. The problem with mystery is that it can only go two ways: solved or unsolved. solving the mystery destroys it, like knowing the secret behind a slight of hand trick. the excitement in the reader is killed. leaving the mystery unsolved however, is almost as bad. only certain people can appreciate a mystery that stays unsolved after the story ends (look at the division in the Twin Peaks fanbase for example)
Should a 15 year old twink be able to lift a grown ass man clear off the floor by the throat or singlehandedly wrench free spears half buried in frozen ground that require several men to pull free?
How many rape scenes (statutory or otherwise) do you think grrm cut out before the final draft? We know he has a woman editor and listens to his wife.
The problem with the arguments I've seen is that people keep seeming to forget that magic does not exist. It's inherently a false or fictional thing. No matter how much a writer explains it, It's still magic, something that is not a reality. There are entire bestiaries dedicated to the the study of mythological or fantasy creatures, the authors attempting to explain and classify these creatures, using current methods of biology and zoology, doesn't make the mythology of them disingenuous or ruins the fun of reading about them because the writer got scientific about it. We already know they don't exist and can't exist, it's the exact same thing with magic, these things will always be a mystery, even in the context of a story, because magic doesn't operate within the rules of reality, real or false.
>>23394597>>23395035The premise was false, the argument that ignorance is magic, incorrect. The single thread that connects every shape "magic" can take, it is the fantastical. The at least apparent, supernatural. Anyone's knowledge or lack thereof on its inner workings, is beyond magic's definition.
>>23395105Yes, this is a much more succinct way of saying what I wanted to say.
>>23395105>the argument that ignorance is magicI, at least, never said ignorance = magic. Just that the feeling of wonder and magic can almost always be traced to a certain awe or mystery. You're always delivering some kind of info on what that magic does but keeping the inner workings a mystery is what most people think of when you say magic.GRRM is a magician doing his tricks and letting the viewer figure out the machinations for themselves, if they even can. Sanderson is a magician who does his tricks, and then proceeds to explain why what he did worked (whether it's him as a narrator giving exposition or an ignorant character learning of that magic through the world). Not even giving a biased take, it's just what they are doing.
>>23395035>people keep seeming to forget that magic does not exist.I'm actually of the opinion that magic can't exist even in fiction, going by >>23391244Which is precisely what I personally think people keep forgetting. That magic isn't actually supposed to be anything. It's whatever you want it to be. Magic is what you make of it. The mind's eye.https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/9781405165518.wbeosm004.pub2For every instance of "that's magic" in history, there's a conflicting account of "no that's not magic" somewhere in the world. Or an attempt at upping it. "That's not magic, THIS is Magick!" or "That's not magic, it's a Miracle!" and etc etc...You see it spreading like wildfire in today's imaginative culture, or climate. Countless fantasists and fiction writers arguing over what magic is, or is not. Magic is disagreeable. Magic is "magic".
In two months, ADWD will be 13 years old...
> In two months, ADWD will be 13 years old...
Some fandoms have it worse you know.
>>23395806and? do you actually think this type of argument has any value? if my arm is broken, reminding me some people don't have arms will not fix my broken arm, it's still broken
The audio books won't be the same without dotrice. Gurm really fucked up letting this geezer expire before finishing the damn series. Idgaf if he made quaithe a cockney, the guy made the experience of listening to the books feel medieval
>>23393437The show ended 5 years ago so what excuse does he have now?
>>23395941More shows
>>23395780>>23395785George finished winds a few weeks ago so thats okay
TWOW in two more yearsTRVST THV PLVN
>>23395035>disproves your point
>>23395941He's still involved with HBO a lot, though he did step back later in the show run. I don't think he has excuses really, I think he's just finding it really fucking hard to write. It's a perfect storm.>years of the show skyrocketed his fanbase>it drew him away to projects with HBO, fan conventions, tv interviews, etc>he became more of a spokesman for tv writers in general>the book itself requires the weaving together and conclusion of many different highly complex plotlines.>each time he steps away from writing it makes it harder to come backAll that said, I hold out hope. It's possible he's further along than we realise.
>>23395863Ian Glen and Harry Lloyd > Roy Dotrice
>>23388507>Now you'll say "but anon, he mentions corn all the time" the word corn was originally used for multiple types of grain, and it's still even used for things like salt, which is what the "corn" in corned beef is.No, idiot, he explicitly mentions in an interview that he added maize (corn) in his series because he likes corn.
>>23388168>ctrl F>92 post>no mention of fat pink masts jutting into myrish swamps until her cunt became the world and under the table a bitch-hound thumped her tail as pups suckled on her bulging dugs while nuncle broke his fast on black bread, bacon burned black, and mulled wine while around him the planks of the ship groaned like a fat man taking a shit and in the privy the princess cursed as she shat but the more arbor gold she guzzled the more she shat until she was shitting brown water while she dreamed of riding her silver and nuncle smirked and bit into a lemoncake while capon-grease dripped down his chin onto the nipples of his breastplate and the boiled leather of his jerkin for did the princess not know words are wind and winter is coming and a lannister always pays her debts and you know nothing jon snow and dark wings bring dark tidings and oh my sweet summer child this is nothing but a mummers farce and she could be fucking lancel and asha and moonboy for all nuncle knows before sticking them with the pointy end but where do whores go and the night is dark and full of terrors but nuncle is the blood of the dragon while the princess is merely a girl of five and ten who knows little of the ways of manhoods and the north remembers and if they look back they are lost and what is dead may never die and fear cuts deeper than swords. Har! Heh. HODOR
Where do whores go?
>>23396809whorethoryos
>>23396809helltysha wasn't a whore though so tyrion may yet find her
ugh
sansa basically killed her dad
>>23396809Home
>>23397562Sansa is my least favorite POV.I especially hate her POVs in ACOK because they are redundant with Tyrion also being in King's Landing and having a far more interesting story.
>>23397562We don't victim blame in this general but yeah that's why people start out not liking her character. It took my like three re-reads to soften up and now she has some of the best chapters to me. She didn't know that these people/Joffrey were crazy. It's not unreasonable for a kid to want to be queen and become distressed at having her betrothal broken, and be sent home, and be made to marry some crummy knight instead of a prince.
>>23397562It takes a special kind of retard to blame Sansa for her father's poor life choices
>>23397562based sansa
>>23396534This. I like Dotrice, but the other guys could probably beat him in quality.
>>23391244>>23395773This is a good point. Magic is purely psychological.
A lot of arch maesters in westerosi history were dabblers in magic and they merely convinced the rest it's stupid so as to keep their secrets for themselves
If GRRM wrote himself I to a hole and can't complete the last 2 books, why doesn't he use Chat GPT to complete them?
Would Ned have killed Karstark for murdering the Lannister boys?
>>23399985Only after the fighting was done
>>23399796Because the greatest fear, like all those creators that take too long, is that the product will not be worth waiting for. If he dies with it unfinished, he need never know the humiliation of providing a substandard book after such long anticipation.
>gee Aegon, how come your mom lets you have two sister-wives
>>23401127wonder what he would've thought of his descendants kowtowing to andal chuds and abandoning polygamy even before they lost their nukes
>>23391244>In Tolkien’s middle-earth, the elves don’t believe in (elven) magic, since it’s all just Art to them, and the black machines of Mordor are likened to black magic.Is this true? Any Tolkfags around?
>>23389331>Dany, though, could've been axed completely and only relegated to rumors.This is how GRRM originally intended it. Changing it was probably his worst single decision.
>>23401320Polygamy is more trouble than it's worth tho
>>23401457Maybe youd understand if you had a dragon and constant threesomes with your sisters
Who do you think the Winds POV prologue will be? I want it to be Shitmouth but I don't know what role he could play in the Riverlands but he could offer some interesting insights into what it was like roaming with Gregor's armies. I got a feeling it'll be someone close to Jeyne Westerling who could be used as bait to lure her out only to be captured and used as a pawn by Stoneheart.
>>23401461>Whilst no one ever questioned Visenya’s fidelity to her brother-husband, Rhaenys surrounded herself with comely young men, and (it was whispered) even entertained some in her bedchambers on the nights when Aegon was with her elder sister.If someone in the aegonfort was having threesomes it wasn't Aegon bro
>>23401424>This is how GRRM originally intended itReally? Where di you see that? That sucks. That along with avoiding the time skip were a mistake, for sure
>>23389143Book Jon is actually a decent character and his ADWD chapters as Lord Commander are pretty good.
>>23401597Its not true, my chad-king cant be a cuck
>>23401638Any interaction between him and Stannis or Val is kino
>>23388168Best POV's per book:AGOT = Tyrion and NedACOK = Theon and Tyrion.ASOS = TyrionAFFC = CerseiADWD = Reek and maybe Davos.Theon is probably my favourite charatcer desu.
>>23401597only rumours, otherwise we'd have more children than just Aenys
>>23401657On the topic of Stannis.Narratively speaking, I am pretty confident that he will win the battle of Ice.It is a common-rule that the winner doesn't reveal their master plan until the victory is secured, and in TWOW Theon chapter, when Stannis talks about his plan he's super cryptic. The chapter also has him arresting the Karstarks and discovering their plot. If Stannis is going to lose, why would George have that occur?The only logical conclusion is that Stannis wins the battle of ice, but in ADWD, George has been hyping up Roose as this big bad villain that has a lot more evil shit going on.Even if Stannis prevails in the battle of Ice, he only decimates the Frey army. The bolton's are all in Winterfell. Roose can benefit from losing the battle of ice, because he simply sent the Frey's out to get rid of hungry mouths in Winterfell.I like to believe I am wrong, but it is possible Stannis will win the battle of Ice, but lose in the north
>>23401616I'm pretty sure he's said in an interview that he at least played with the idea of there only being rumors about a dangerous invader warlord with a big army across the sea and then it would be a surprise that it's actually a young girl (which is very similar to what he then did in Dunk & Egg) but I can't find it now. If it's true it seems like it has been changed very early on.
>>23401692It's foreshadowed a lot that the Frey/Bolton army will fall into the frozen lake.
>>23401661why'd you like Theon so much? no hate genuine question
>>23394944Has George ever suggested that he has removed edgy content from his books?
So how come Stannis and Jon Arryn didnt root out the councilBoth of them were too honourbound and smart to ignore all the scheming and backstabbing
>>23390785so basically dune? dune did that already.
>>23402120Because they weren't dumb and understood that politics comes with the job. You can literally see that with Stannis and his army.
>>23401692>is possible Stannis will win the battle of Ice, but lose in the northYes. There will be a Battle of the Bastards in the book, because GRRM wrote a note saying the Stark direwolves will go against Ramsay's dog pack. Jon and Rickon will take back Winterfell for their family- a much more satisfying conclusion than a southron king taking it.
>>23401692Even disregarding the non-canon TWOW chapters, the Mannis will win both. I personally don't see the Boltons surviving no matter what happens since everyone wants them dead, so if Stannis dies the north is done for.
>>23402242Then why did GRRM say the Stark direwolves are going against Ramsay's dogpack? Stannis stans got their head in the sand baka
>>23402262Roose is too clever to be killed in his own game of betrayal (unless its Ramsay doing it) which is to say the Boltons won't be defeated right away but they will be routed off winterfell. Don't worry secondary, you'll still get a pseudo battle of the bastards in the book. Also when did the fat man say that? Curious since he talks alot.
Victarion POVs are underratedBarristan too
>>23402360>Also when did the fat man say that?It was in a article for GQ or Esquire (something like that) when they quoted a note GRRM intended for the showrunners to start hyping up Ramsay's dogs because they're going against the direwolves.
>>23401381Tolkien knew well the tension of technology and the threat of the machine. Tolkien explains the use of magic in his mythos and how it relates to machinery. Tolkien had thought through, with great clarity, the difference between the magic of the elves and that of Mordor.He observes that the hobbits do not understand the difference between the magic powers exercised by the elves and that of Sauron: “the Elven queen Galadriel is obliged to remonstrate with the Hobbits on their confused use of the word [magic] both for the devices and operations of the Enemy and for those of the Elves.” Tolkien says the lack of a proper word (other than “magic”) for the work of the elves portrays the same confusion in our own minds and mythologies.He goes on to explain the difference: “Their [the elves’] ‘magic’ is Art, delivered from many of its human limitations: more effortless, more quick, more complete (product, and vision in unflawed correspondence). And its object is Art not Power, sub-creation not domination and tyrannous re-forming of Creation.”Tolkien elucidates the dilemmas we face as technology snowballs and threatens to blow up in our face. Put simply, the magic of Mordor is the machinery of murder. It is the pursuit of power for its own sake, and perceives the natural world merely as a raw material to be exploited, distorted, and destroyed. In the films, we see this in full display as the wizard Saruman destroys Fangorn—chewing up the forest to fuel his machines of war. The realms of the Elves, in contrast, at Rivendell and Lothlorien, are havens of harmony, beauty, and peace created by elven magic.The distinction elucidates our own continued, confused, modern relationship to technology. Do we use our increasingly sophisticated gadgetry and expanding knowledge in an elvish, creative, and artful way to bring light, beauty, and truth to the world, or do we use technology to manipulate, make money, and thus gain more power in the world?
I’ve never read any of these novels, only watched the tv show and the wiki. And even I desperately want GURM to finish just so I can see how it all ends
>>23402490chatgpt-ass post
>>23401661>AGOT = Tyrion and NedAgree, it's Ned's book but he doesn't have half the character that Tyrion does so it's a toss-up.>ACOK = Theon and Tyrion.I think it's Tyrion by a wide margin. ACOK is Tyrion's book.>ASOS = TyrionHonestly I'm not sure, ASOS is my favorite book but no POV strikes me as head and shoulders above the rest. ASOS Tyrion is a step-down from ACOK Tyrion but it's still pretty good.>AFFC = CerseiI've gotta go with Jaime. Cersei is pretty one note meanwhile Jaime has the continuation of his ASOS arc and goes around seeing the destruction of the war of the 5 kings.>ADWD = Reek and maybe Davos.Agree with you on Reek. Jon is boring, Dany is REALLY boring, and half of Tyrion's chapters are redundant. I used to like ADWD more than AFFC, but on re-read I think it is the weakest of the series so far. Especially because it builds up to multiple cliffhangers... that still haven't been resolved after 13 years.
>>23401649Your chad-king gets pegged by his older sis.
>>23401661>Not Jaime for ASOSAbsolute pleb taste
>>23391244>>23402490How the fuck aren’t elves magic? Tolkien’s a retard
>>23403823t. retard
Daenerys poop consistency status?
>>23403823Anon, magic is a psychological angle. Again, it's not anything even in fiction. It depends on the viewer—be they reader or in-setting observer.Something can definitively meet all the damn criteria to be recognized as magic, but even then, it may not be seen that way in-actuality. Look at real life.See, modern day fantasists and fiction writers dropped the ball on interchangeable logic, as they tend to only consider the psychologies of the readers, not the in-setting persons.Tolkien and Clarke are rolling in their graves at the current intellectual state. No one knows what magic is anymore. Or at least, the true heart of it.
>>23403976>Tolkien and Clarke*are having gay sex in their graves
If Goerge ever gets around to finishing his shit, do you think hes gonna deviate from the show ending despite it being his original plan?
>>23403976>Look at real life.Magic isn’t real. Only science is real.
>>23404059Obviously. Him trying to do a 180 in this cruise ship of a series he built is the main reason why Winds isn't out yet.
>>23404077I wonder if were gonna get sane-Dany seeing as that is probably the most hated part of the ending
>>23404072
>>23404072Science is the magic of the future. Inverted. Magic is no longer something to define, but to describe.
>>23395105>the argument that ignorance is magicIs correct the correct argument to make, since “how did you do that? are you a wizard?” is kind of the core of magic to begin with.
>>23388978Every occult school I have ever studied under has described magick as 1. consistent, 2. algorithmic, and 3. having a psycho-material basis. The same ritual with the same concentration and intention should always beget the same result.The mystery is not that rituals do different things every time, it's that the "physics" for it are not well understood.
>>23404420>The same ritual with the same concentration and intention should always beget the same result.If they ever worked and resulted in anything, they certainly don’t work or result in anything *now*, which implies *something* conditional allowed it to happen. There’s an intelligence to it.There is no such thing as “defying physics”, just our lacking understanding of things. The nuance is often ignored in favour of a blunt separation.To the physicist, this is much more disturbing than to the blind ritualist who just believes in what he’s doing. >The mystery is not that rituals do different things every time, it's that the "physics" for it are not well understood.That’s more or less what the occult means, or denotes, yes. Out of your view, initiation, etc. Hiddenness. That occultists tried systemizing their rituals doesn’t really excuse them from their leaps into the imaginative unknown. No different from present-day psychologists, really. Or cutting edge science. It’s an esoteric and intangible field. It’s not hard, it’s “hard”.
>>23404453It’s all aliens obviously
The deep ones / great empire of the dawn are the mutated and fucked up and degenerated inbred survivors (barely their original form) of a primeval celestial event or phenomena (ayyy) that crashed into the moon and went down into the earth and ocean, forever poisoning it and all life on the planet, and trying their very best to make the best of things / raping and subjugating terrestrials.
>>23404479Yeah probably. They seemed less advanced than the Valyrians for some reason.
>>23404059The show after season 4 has like four things from GRRM and those are Bran becoming king, Dany going mad, Jon's mom and hold the door, all which are sensible already foreshadowed.Of course it's moot because the books are never coming out.
>>23404497>all which are sensible already foreshadoweddoesnt mean they cant be changed, im sure he had this outlined since the first book but maybe seeing people hate the outcome made him change it
>>23404505No one literate "hated the ending", they hated the show being nonsensical terribly written shit.
>>23404497Don't forget burning Shireen. >>23404497>Bran becoming kingThis is the one thing I'm REALLY not hot on. In 5 books Bran hasn't grown that much, it's too much character development in too little time to have a crippled boy become some Lovecraftian entity pulling the strings in only 2 books.
>>23404453No the magic in asoiaf is SUPERNATURAL it explicitly goes against and beyond nature.
>>23404581You’re retarded
>>23404581The supernatural is oxymoronic since nothing can truly supersede nature, if it exists. Existence is nature. It’s all relative layers. “That ain’t natural” is just a saying.Besides, beyond-physics (metaphysics) is still physics to the physicist, since there will always be a background to the foreground, in anything and everything at all. Current understanding of quantum mechanics would be pretty damn meta to persons from antiquity. Again, this sort of discussion leads us right back into ‘What is X to one is Y to another’ territory, since the unnatural(supernatural) is effectively just another word for magic / “I don’t like it!”Me, personally, I prefer the word paranormal. It’s out of the ordinary. It’s not the norm.
TWoW when
Reminder that the church was a self-hating, self-prosecuting mages guild by any other name, and frequently attempted black magic.
>>23404059>>23404497>original plan>4 things from GRRMThe show was heavily changed from the START, it was a poor adaptation until the third season after which it became its own thing. You secondaries are funny i'll tell you hwhat.
>>23404811Aside from the few scenes added for fluff and condensing multiple characters into one, whats so different about the first season and the book?
>>23404811>after which it became its own thing..Which included 4 points GRRM gave them. Are you stupid?
>>23404815the character's faces weren't how he imagined them in his head when he was reading the book
>>23404831Granted, but Syrio looks a lot better in the show than in the books and Tyrion just wouldnt work as a womanizer if he was actually hideous
Renly was the only outright terrible what the fuck were they thinking casting in the first season.
>>23404783That’s cool as fuck
Anyone read GRRM's influences that supposedly inspired him? I'm making my way through the Elric series and it's pretty blatant how much he ripoff the aesthics of the Melniboneans for the Targaryens. Right down to them using dragons to conquer and put themselves as the dominant rulers. >>23402389Victarion's are fun in the same way Cersei's are fun both are just batshit crazy and incredibly fun reads. I like Barristan also but his have just been average so far, I'm hoping he acts as a mediator between Aegon and Daenerys in Winds so they can meet. It'd be neat somehow if Tyrion manages to gain his trust and favour allowing him to rule Mereen while he goes to Storm's End
>>23404843What was wrong with it? Stannis' younger, cooler brother that everyone liked a whole lot more. He should have been a little bit older but that's it.
>>23404856He's supposed to be young Robert and they casted some wimpy faggot (and then made his only character trait sucking dick).
>>23404855I read the first two or three Accursed Kings and they were kinda trash.
To this day I'm wondering why Eddard didnt take Renly up on his offer to seize joffrey and co
>>23404783>miracles are totally different from magic broWere Catholics really this retarded? Really?
>>23404888muh honor as usual. Renly's offer (kidnap the kids, cut out the lannisters and rule on king joffrey's behalf as lord protector) required betraying stannis and living a lie, which was just more than ned was capable of. plus he believed the gold cloaks were paid off and everything would be fine for him.
>>23404888>Why didn’t Ned support someone who had no claim to the throne and would have guaranteed a war anyway
>>23404909>required betraying stannis and living a lieat that point he had already lied to Robert and he couldve still sent for stannis Renly wouldnt have been suspicious and then tell Stannis that Joffrey has no claimEven the fact that he tried to be "merciful" to Cersei when she and Joffrey have been more crazy than any other person Ned had met beside Aerys>>23404928It wouldnt be supporting Renly considering both of them knew Robert named Eddard protector of the realm, it was obviously meant to be Eddard who had all the power at that point, hence why everyone tried to get him on their side, even Cersei
>>23404931You think Renly would have a chance to do any of this with the Lannister army already completely mobilized? He had no banners called. It would take too much time before he had all of Tywins army descending on Kings Landing.
>>23404959But why would Tywin march on KL when Ned is merely doing what Robert decreed?
>>23404894You have no idea. I was raised Catholic, and my mother was terrified of ouija boards and anything related or to do with magic. —“Don’t worry, sweetie. Witchcraft isn’t real. Only God is real. And you must fear Him. You don’t want to go to the bad place when you die, right? Now let’s go worship a ghost at his temple and partake of his flesh and blood!”—“o-okay mommy…”Christians can’t into irony or semantics to save themselves.
>>23404981The bad place is real tho
>>23404820Yeah that was the problem, the show after becoming its own thing tried to force in the book ending m despite deviating heavily from them.I still firmly believe that the show should’ve had a different ending, with George dragging ass on the books they would’ve had every right to do so.
>>23404975Do you think Tywin would yield with his daughter/queen regent in chains? I think it would be a "now or never" moment for him to march on KL. What else would he do? Go back to CR?
>>23404987>I still firmly believe that the show should’ve had a different endingYou'd need competent writers at the helm. Not two guys who were clearly and openly tired of it.
>>23404987>>23404992Most people would have probably still loved it if it just ended with Jon and Dany marrying and defeating evil and ruling together. It had already been utter retarded shit for years by that point and it just got more popular.
>>23404996At that point, a happy ending wouldve actually been subverting expectations I hope George is taking so long because hes changing his ending, not because hes afraid people will hate his book just as much
>>23405024I don't think he's changing his ending. I think he's just at a very pivotal point in the series where the storylines which have been expanding outward now have to be wrangled back together. TWoW has clearly expanded way beyond original scope because of this, and I wouldn't be surprised if there's another book before ADOS. Assuming TWOW ever comes out, that is. Which it won't.
>>23404783>>23404981Are the Maesters the church equivalent, in this regard? I say this because not all of them are against magic, and try to veer away to do their own thing.People forget that the unnamed Grand Maester during Bloodraven’s time was “as steeped in sorcery” as the lord Hand himself. I find that strange.
>>23404497Dany going mad is not confirmed. I don't even really like Dany that much and I can acknowledge that. Replace that with Stannis burning Shireen.
>>23405103Outside of Jon that's the one that's most foreshadowed and it was obvious even before it happened in the show.
>>23404894Miracles come from God, magic from devils you dumb heathen
>>23404553He won't become Lovecraftian and it is actually quite obvious he will become king looking back at it all. People got caught up in fetishizing J+D, they forgot about what the series is trying to say. However, it is hard to blame people when Bran only got 3 chapters in ADWD because his story has to halt so all the new AFFC/ADWD characters can get into their places. It does seem inelegant in many ways.
>>23405117Going Fire and Blood is not necessarily the same in my mind as going mad.
>>23405121>He won't become Lovecraftian and it is actually quite obvious he will become king looking back at it all.Well how else is a 10 year old crippled boy going to become king when he has no legitimate claim to the Iron Throne?
>>23405117Literally how was it EVER foreshadowed
>>23405147Erm, Sweaty, her burning the witch along her husband and herself
>>23405147When is Dany never not an insane self obsessed bitch
>>23405142All the other claimants being dead and Bran being acknowledged as the one who saved the world? There is a lot of ways that could be done.Here is another theory I thought quite intriguing.https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/173surk/spoilers_extended_brans_just_a_boy_shireens_just/
>>23405147Half of the last book was repeating "Targs go mad wink wink get it" while she's torturing kids and burning people alive.
>>23405152Oh of course and her father was mad too if you can remember which clearly means she is also duh>>23405174>When Dany is a womanAt last i see
>>23405178The funny thing is that Arys's paranoia will likely be revealed to be based on a lotta truth... Southron Ambitions and all...
>>23405178>Oh of course and her father was mad tooAnd her brother
Why George the most British mf to ever live and he live in Norway
>>23405184Viserys was the sane one.
>>23405183Aerys*
>>23405183If we do get an explanation for Aerys going mad (like Bran warging into him Hodor style), I would hate martin for making Dany the only insane Targ
>>23405177And F&B as another dozen examples and each and every one of them have one thing in common: the Targaryen in question was ALWAYS mad to begin with. The coin is flipped when they are born not half way through the game.
>>23405176>The answer: by marrying Shireen Baratheon.But we know that Shireen is gonna get -ACK!'ed
>>23405202Dany will have a reason (Aegon already being a loved king when she finally invades) but she will still be considered mad.
>>23405209Bran can time travel to save her.
>>23405213Brans gonna timetravel and make his father the new Hodor
Harry Potter has the best magic system in fantasy booksIt's genetic, like all genes it can skip one or multiple generations and resurface randomly, and it still needs to be cultivated (a talented athlete still needs training)Muggles are simply descendants of Squibs where the magic gene is recessive and that's why Muggle-born wizards and witches are a thingSquibs being people who don't manifest the magic genesearch your feelings you know it to be true
>>23388212>Harry Potter method of magic, where magic is understood and comprises off saying the right words or having the right ingredients*and being born with the right genes for itThat's why the pure bloods hate the muggle born so much, magic is eugenics in Harry Potter, it's not something anyone can do... if your parents are wizards but you are a Squib (born without the capability to use magic) you are considered less than human >Squibs, at times, tried to fight for their rights, as they marched for equality in around 1968 or 1969. However, pure-blood extremists would absolutely refuse to give anything respectful towards Squibs, and even launched an attack against the marchers that led to riots. Even in the 1990s, many years after the protests, the Ministry refused to keep track of Squib births, showing a disregard for Squibs' attempt to earn their rightsYou know why the Harry Potter method works in Harry Potter? Because it's treated like the eugenics it is
>>23388244Preston just released a new chapter last week bro. Trust the plan.
>>23405238Harry Potter succeeds in making magic non-magic. Magic is socialized and domesticated in Harry Potter, it is understood down to dog breeding in how it exhibits through people and Harry Potter is straight-up recognized as the "chosen one" because everyone in Harry Potter world is based. But what is the book really about? A boy falling in love with his friend's hot sister during the rise of fascism. That's why Harry Potter fucks.
>>23405283pureblood wizards are inherently fascists>Marius was disowned and removed from the Black family tree tapestry for being born a Squib, a wizard-born person with no magical abilities. The Blacks were likely ashamed of his status, as Squibs are considered second-class citizens in the wizarding world and disregarded.
>>23405294Which is why the narrative device of magic in Rowling books is so effective. The magic isn't 'cool' at all it's the most literal, boring, mall witch version of magic ever written. But it creates a world where you can actually understand what it feels like to be a kid watching fascism take start in the 1930s and 1940s and be like yeah fuck. Everyone is going to fucking die. And still laying pipe
>>23405300I don't even think it's allegorical like that though like specifically about Hitler or anything I don't feel like Rowling was that obvious. It's just good writing like you can feel the sweat in Hogwarts. It's a world of its own but it tells that story of power and watching people cliquing up and getting recruited when you're still young and secret police etc
What do you think of Martin's take on dragons? I think they are some of the best I've read in modern fantasy they feel very different from others I've felt which are just kind of generic but I like how they are essentially a detterent akin to nuclear weapons
>>23405336They are not dragons but wyverns, but credit where credit is due, GRRM treats them with the respect and majestic such mythical creatures deserve and they fit the scenario. Which is to say i like them very much.
>>23405336I really like his design. I think there's only two ways to play off Dragons- either as majestic beasts or as godlike beings of higher intelligence and status to humans. I like the theory that dragon riders skinchange into their bonded dragons after death, as well as the theory that Mirri Maz Duur, Khal Drogo, and Rhaego are the three souls that were implanted in Dany's petrified eggs to give them life, though the latter begs the question of why they needed souls to begin with.>>23389189Not to stray too offtopic but what's the hard magic system of kingkiller chronicle like?
>>23405351a wyvern is just a type of dragon really, also they're called dragons in the books, that's the fiction, so what's the beef?
How did they build the wall? It seems like a herculean feat with what amounts to medieval technology.
>>23405423Brandon Stark used the magic of subcontracting the job out to foreign scabs. There's nothing you can't achieve with Child (of the Forest) labour.
>>23405423The wall is a bunch of frozen weirwoods
>>23405423Others have an aura of coldness that emanates from themErgo, Others were strapped to frozen weirwoods to create the wall and are maintaining the temperature
>>23405423It is implied the Others "helped" as per whatever agreement they came to when the long night ended
>>23405423>>23405453Maybe the kids Craster offers aren't to repopulate The Others or to help keep their gene pool fresh but are actually sacrifices to the wall so they can keep adding more Others to it to strengthen it.
Reminder that dragons are only half reptile, and the other half is something aberrant and from the deep. It is no coincidence that wyrms/firewyrms are parasites like worms. It is no coincidence that dragons are hermaphroditic like worms. It is no coincidence that dragon eggs stay dormant like the eggs of worms. It is no coincidence that some deep sea worms in the ocean live near…deep sea volcanic vents... “It’s always summer under the sea, I know, I know…”It is NO coincidence that the fourteen flames consisted of “boiling water” as well as magma and rock. It is certainly NO coincidence that the Doom didn’t actually blanket the world in an ash winter, as an actual super volcanic eruption would have done…The smoking sea was always there. Its cap simply blew off. Nagga was a wyrm. The grey king stole its “living fire” the same way the Valyrians did on societal scale. The Hightowers similarly beat back the original dragons that “roosted” on the battle isle. Perhaps they stole some secrets as well?Thoughts?
>>23405715I believe it.
>>23405659Please stop outting yourself as a secondary, Craster isn't offering kids to the Others, he is offering than to Bloodraven and the Children. They are the ones that eat people.
>>23405817>secondaryWhats a secondary
>>23404855I read the Amber Chronicles and it was fucking kino
>>23405412>I like the theory that dragon riders skinchange into their bonded dragons after death, as well as the theory that Mirri Maz Duur, Khal Drogo, and Rhaego are the three souls that were implanted in Dany's petrified eggs to give them life, though the latter begs the question of why they needed souls to begin with.It doesn’t have to literal more so than symbolical.
>>23405422no beef, i was just being pedantic for no reason :)i don't actually mind the nomenclature>>23405849NTA but it means one who has only interacted with derivative material or alternatively had his perspective skewered by it
You now remember this blogpost.
>>23406719Every extended post from him makes me pity him.
>>23402142GRRM took more than that from Dune.
>>23404855>ElricRead the first book, didn't like the style>The Accursed KingsLoved it.>DuneRead the first book, found it pretty boring except for Paul's visions.>various LovecraftI really like Lovecraft.>The Lord of the Rings and other Tolkien stuffLove it a lot.>Arthurian talesI generally like them, they're fun.>ShakespeareHit or miss.>The IliadLoved it.Can't remember other influences.
>>23406719This unironically one of his better posts
Will we even get an update this year
Why do you guys care about the magic and fantasy elements so much
>>23407536Fuck you
>>23407564I am serious
>>23407536Because a big part of asoiaf is the mystery, and the magic strongly plays into that., obviously. Retard.
Just starting the series for the first time. The first book is so sad knowing what will happen, especially when Eddard is so confident it will turn out okay
>>23407914First read: Wow Ned is such a tragic figure, he really tried to keep the peace Subsequent reads: Ned is one of the dumbest characters in the series and doomed the entire realm for no reason
>>23408061Isn't it Cat who starts the war of the 5 kings by kidnapping Tyrion
>>23408069Clearly its Lancel, if Robert had been around longer we'd either get Stannis as king after Robert finds out about his children or he legitimizes a bastardHe only needed to be around for a day longer
>>23404855>Anyone read GRRM's influences that supposedly inspired him?Dany's chapter in the House of the Undying is quite reminiscent of Ditko's classic Dr StrangeMeaning it's fucking awesomeAlso:https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Ebony_Blade>star forged sword wielded by each generation of a family of great knights>Arthur Dayne / Dane WhitmanWhat more did he rip-off silver age Marvel?
>>23407914Ironically, it went downhill because Ned lied about Roberts will
>>23406719Now post his libshit rant. Shit always makes me kek.
How come they built a wall to keep out the others instead of digging a trench from sea to sea, seeing as they cant pass over that either
I got a feeling Cersei is going to lose her Trial by Combat because of Aegon invading she'll hate it because it means she has no power or control in King's Landing anymore but love it as she could use the confusion and chaos as a way to slip out and head to Casterly Rock for safety while everyone is distracted. But what happens to Tommen in this scenario? Is he trampled to death admid all the confusion and terror while trying to get away with his mother, or is he taken and held captive by Aegon's forces to be used as some kind of barganing chip against Cersei and House Lannister?
>>23408148The wall was built to keep out WWs. If you built a trench they’d just freeze it and walk across.
>>23408221Then explain why they arent just freezing the sea at the edge of the wall?
>>23408231Why didn’t the mongol hordes just go around the Great Wall?
>>23408256The mongol hordes didnt have magic ice powers to freeze water? Pretty obvious if you ask me
I just start ASOS. Do the Bran chapters get any better in this series? I can’t read one more wolf dream.
There is no dornish master planThe overripe blood oranges are foreshadowing that Doran waited too fucking long to do anything and won't accomplish anything. He waited for Viserys to grow older, and now he'll reap the mummer's dragon.
>>23408211I think the most popular theory is that Cersei is going to end up in Euron's bed after fleeing King's Landing back to Casterly Rock. Tommen's survival is an unknown, but I don't think they'd kill him because of his age.
>>23405817>"What gods?" Jon was remembering that they'd seen no boys in Craster's Keep, nor men either, save Craster himself."The cold gods," she said. "The ones in the night. The white shadows."...."What color are their eyes?" he asked her"Blue. As bright as blue stars, and as cold."so was gilly just making shit up here?
>>23408148scaling a wall is harder than plonking a makeshift bridge across a trench.
>>23408069Yeah. This is actually a change that was made after the original manuscript, in it she was working on Ned's orders and literally everything was actually his fault.
>>23408271I didn't really consider them interesting until he gets to the cave which is very late.
>>23408512Tommen is dead soon in any case, that much is obvious. Now that I think about it Cersei might actually poison him and fulfill that part of the prophecy herself.
>>23408061>Ned is one of the dumbest characters in the series and doomed the entire realm for no reasonI really don't understand how people don't see that from the get go, same with shit like the red wedding. Its shocking sure but it absolutely should not surprise you.>>23408515Gilly is a dumb broad, not exactly a reliable witness. From accounts alone it seems like every wildling as seen them. What i was saying is that there are only 2 places north of the wall that are Other-free. Do you think Gilly would be able to tell Coldhands from a wight or an Other?
https://georgerrmartin.com/notablog/2024/05/21/heres-egg/Things are moving along nicely with our Dunk & Egg spinoff, HBO’s adaptation of my novella THE HEDGE KNIGHT.Most of the auditions — not all, but most — are done, and we should be able to announce some more cast members shortly. We have our Tanselle, Steely Pate, Baelor Breakspear, the Laughing Storm, a couple of Fossoways, Aerion Brightflame (boo, hiss), Prince Maekar, and the rest. Lists are being built on Ashford Meadow. I am told they just had the first table read, and that it went great.And our youngest star can’t wait to start. Here’s Dexter, turning to Egg.I love it.THE HEDGE KNIGHT will be a lot shorter than GAME OF THRONES or HOUSE OF THE DRAGON, with a much different tone… but it’s still Westeros, so no one is truly safe Ira Parker and his team are doing a great job. I hope to visit the shoot come July, when I swing by Belfast on my way to the worldcon in Glasgow. The show will make its debut next year… and if it does well, THE SWORN SWORD and THE MYSTERY KNIGHT will follow. By which time I hope to have finished some more Dunk & Egg stories (yes, after I finish THE WINDS OF WINTER).Oh, and we have our director as well: Owen Harris, a terrific British director whose credits include helming “San Junipero,” my all time favorite episode of BLACK MIRROR. Owen will direct three of our six episodes.
>>23409149What are the chances this show is decent?
>>23409158>dunk and egg are both whitepretty good
>>23409149I think that's the first time he's mentioned Winds of Winter on his blog in like literal months, maybe close to half a year or more.
>>23409149>six episodesIt's like 100 pages. We're getting five episodes of made up shit from retards, probably full of niggers.
>>23409162This just means they'll make up for the DEI allotment elsewhere
>>23409149>(yes, after I finish THE WINDS OF WINTER)
>>23409149>(yes, after I finish THE WINDS OF WINTER).There was a time this would have elicited cries of "WINDS RELEASES IN 2025" but now I just feel nothing.
>>23408256They did
Im sorry if this has been discussed to death but I just caught up withe the books. Is there any belief among readers that the gap between ADOS and TWOW (assuming its ever released) will be much smaller due to all the heavy lifting and setting up GRRM is doing in TWOW? I see people say that if it takes this long to write TWOW then there's no hope for ADOS and I dont feel like that's the case.
>>23409217Gap between ADOS and TWOW? Anon we're never seeing ADOS.
>>23409217Look at the new fan, he hasn't had his hopes crushed yet
>>23408512>>23408584Cersei could poison him to spare him being murdered by Aegon or used as a pawn like she nearly killed him back in ACOK to stop Stannis and his army when they were tryin to break into the throne room during Blackwater.
>>23409217>he thinks ADOS is ever coming out
>>23409217Almost certainly. TWOW has to bring so many characters together and resolve so many plotlines. ADOS isn't going to start doing that right at the end.
I think we'll get a huge time jump like GRRM always wanted at the end of The Winds of Winter. It could resolve a lot of unresolved plots started at the beginning of the series and also at the start of A Feast for Crows. The series could span 10-15 years to allow characters like Bran or Arya to mature and hone their abilities while trying to survive the harsh desolation that the new Long Night has brought after the wall fell down. All the lords and nobility squabling over their petty political intrigue now have to work together willingly or unwilling many see this as a chance to forge new and powerful alliances, while others see this is a chance to elimnate old rivals. And that's why I think we'll need an eight book and probably get one. I don't think two books are enough to cover Aegon's invasion then the Others and finally Daenery's invasion and whatever follows on from afterwards. A Time for Wolves could still happen but I think GRRM just wants to wrap up the series and move on.
>>23408952she's very obviously describing an other, it doesn't matter how dumb she is she's giving a physical description. Craster's keep being "other-free" can also be explained by the much more popular theory: Craster was giving the others babies in exchange for safety. what's got you so convinced that it's Brynden/COTF? because they eat jojen?
>>23409217it'll have to be if it's to come out at all. the man doesn't have another 13 years in him.
>>23409308>wrap up the series and move onto what? the grave?
>>23409384He clearly just wants to be cranking out Dunk and Egg novellas
>>23409313Exactly, she is describing the Others with a slight suggestion that she saw it happen, i'm saying she didn't. She says that because what else could've been right? The Others are the only presence seemingly evil lurking about. Personally i don't see blood sacrifices and the Others meshing well, from a meta point of view. I would also question the value in sacrificing beings of other races, i don't really understand what the Others would do with random babies (weak claim i know but still).
>>23409389i can see it now you say. i mean the cave is in the haunted forest, we don't know how far from craster's it might be. and it's full of bones and. Still, we don't know what the game is with the others or the cotf, although we have seen that human life can be traded in for magical boons within the universe.
>>23409451Yes but everytime Martin writes of sacrifice, the subject is of great importance both narratively and in-universe. A king, the blood of a king, a spellcaster, the blood of the dragon, of old Valyria. So even if sacrifices to the Others worked i don't see how offering a couple of incest babies would be enough for two dozen people in the forest to live peacefully. In fact the wildlings would be sacrificing people en masse if that was possible, no i think Craster's situation is much more "personal".
you are legitimately mindbroken if you ever think Gurm is finishing ASOIAF. he let Dumb and Dumber butcher his story while working on video game scripts
>>23409149>(yes, after I finish THE WINDS OF WINTER).Year 14 is the year!TRVST THV PLVN
>>23409149>(yes, after I finish the winds of winter)• 2010: "The First Chapters Are Done!"• 2012: "I really look forward to publishing it in 2014."• 2015: "I'm determined to finish it by 2016. I cancelled two convention appearances, anything I can do to clear my decks and get this done."• 2016: "I am not going to set another deadline for myself to trip over. The deadlines just stress me out."• 2017: "I think it will be out this year."• 2017: "I am still working on it, I am still months away."• 2018: "Work on Winds of Winter continues, and remains my top priority. It is ridiculous to think otherwise."• 2019: "If I don't have The Winds of Winter in hand by the end of the year, you have here my formal written permission to imprison me in a small cabin on an island."• 2020: "There is a lot of work to be done on the upcoming spinoff show, but I won't be writing any scripts for the series before finishing The Winds of Winter."• 2021: "I will make no predictions on when I will finish. Every time I do, assholes on the internet take that as a “promise,” and then wait eagerly to crucify me when I miss the deadline."• 2022: "I hope to wrap up the story line for one of the viewpoint characters of W.O.W. this week. Maybe even two."Eat shit George you fat lying fuck.
>>23409647craster is definitely a curious character, i never got the vibe that an indefinite number of babies weren't enough to guarantee craster's safety. he must be producing at least one a year, but we have no idea what kind of deal he has really. I am interested in what you think Craster's deal with Brynden is. i mean if he's talking to him through a weirwood, calling himself a "godly man" makes more sense.
>>23409806As with everything Brynden, he likely picked on Craster early on. The "idea" of sacrificing the babies either came from a dream or through Coldhands. I doubt he knows of the greenseer near by;>an indefinite number of babiesOh shit... the Others are a relative "new" issue, IF Craster has been doing this for many years now it absolutely could not have been for them since they should be sleeping or whatever. The raven however has been there for decades now... At the very least the likelyhood of it being for him just increased tenfold...>calling himself a "godly man" makes more senseTRUE lol
>>23409167Yep
Monthly reminder: If you crave more ASOIAF you should read J. V. Jones Quintet Sword of Shadows. It even has the last volume still unfinished for over a decade because of reasons. It's the most GoT-esque fantasy books I've read that still have their own unique idiosyncracies.
>>23410238Gay
>>23410238Why would I start another unfinished series? Otherwise looks kino though
Why do people like Dunk and Egg?
>>23410558Because Dunk is le based meme character like Strong Belwas and Titus Pullo.It's a teenage boy thing, you wouldn't get it.
>>23410558Why wouldn't they?
Thread hit bump limitNew thread: >>23410678
>>23409158I look forward to maybe considering watching it after Winds of Winter is released.
