What's the best community? If you could just magically wake up already living in the city with the comm of your choice, where would it be and why?Are there any comms that you feel are too far gone and better left given up on to dissolve by their own internal squabbling?
>>10910018
>>10910018as an amerifag, i've always been really jealous of the dutch comm. there's so many cute, well-dressed lolitas in the netherlands. i have no idea what the vibe and culture of the comm is like - if there's a lot of drama and infighting, that would be a major turn off for me. i love seeing photos from their meets, though.
This is a photo from Houston
My ideal comm would be any comm that has a high % of old schoolers and as low as possible of an amount of people wearing those mass production dresses, 35$ tier chinese lolita dresses, and men wearing dresses (don't "but Mana..." me.). People with good coording skills wearing 2010s AP, btssb from any era, jpn gothic brands from any era or any jpn classic brand are also more than welcome.That would be my ideal/dream comm. When I see pictures of an old school meetup I wish I was there. I have no idea if my ideal comm exists anywhere. I doubt it.But in practice if the people aren't wearing embarrassment level coords then I just prefer to hang out with the people who I click the best with, regardless of their style. Sharing a preferred style means you have more to talk about but it's no guarantee you're going to get along super well. The person who you end up being best friends with might not wear your preferred style.
>>10910032Can’t tell if you’re ESL or just larping but this reads like you’re super weird. I was traveling earlier this year and saw a group in the wild in Munich. Idk if they’re a comm or just meeting up/traveling, but they were well dressed and looked like they were having a good time. They were talking about a trip to Neuschwanstein castle, which reminded me that euro Lolitas have infinitely better photo ops than us.Dream comm would have a hard no whining rule. I swear if I hear one more sob story at a meet I’m gonna flip my shit. Get a therapist and address your attention issues. The rest of us are here to have fun.
>>10910032ignore the other anon. them saying you're ESL outta nowhere was weird when you're absolutely correct. the perfect comm would be well dressed and full of women only. no children, ladysloth or stupid drama.
>>10910040>Can’t tell if you’re ESL but this reads like you’re super weird.BOTH, not larping just ESL and very weird in general. Some days my english is also just worse than other days.I understand why you would want a no whining rule.I'm glad there isn't a group who always want to complain about the price or the sizing in my local comm. There are apparently a few oversensitive people in my comm who go cry to the mods about every single little thing that offends their sensibilities. Like telling the mods that the lolita sharing she had gotten a new walking stick (pink with glitter) for her ehlers danlos syndrome was triggering and inappropriate, or people complaining to the mods that people talking about their measurements (in the context of someone asking for recommendations for dresses based on her measurements) was also triggering and inappropriate.
>>10910052That’s rough. I genuinely don’t understand why people get it in their heads that their personal issues should dictate conversational topics in public spaces, beyond weird sex shit (which I also can’t stand when people bring up). I have an ED. I can get triggered by certain topics and issues. That’s not everyone else’s problem. I feel like people forget that there’s an occupational hazard to socializing. Toes get stepped on. People are going to say/do things you don’t agree with. If you can’t handle it, stay home because you’re not ready to interact with the adults yet. Discussing sizing and measurements is super common in Lolita fashion, imagine being so entitled that you think the whole comm should avoid the topic on your account, when it’s actually really fucking helpful to get size info and an idea for what items might fit. It’s not like you can go to the store and try it on.
>>10910018I don’t get why comms are a thing. Why would I wanna hang out with random people just because we wear the same kinds of clothes?
>>10910059Safety in numbers for me, especially when I first started. I think that’s true for most people. Plus if you happen to meet someone you click with there’s nothing better than a Lolita bestie. But I’ve also met some of the most unhinged people I’ve ever known in the Lolita world so there’s that.
>>10910018weeb answer, but osaka region would be nice. the innocent world event photos always look full of well dressed girls.
>>10910059As much as people screech about how they’re not into other Japanese things, most people in the comm have hobbies and interests in common beyond the fashion. A girl in my comm was so shitty towards weeks and kept bringing out how she’s not into anime. But I spotted a Naruto tattoo on her shoulder kek. People are so weird about that shit.
>>10910077*weebs
>>10910061I met a really cool lolita and we started a comm of two in our small town. would you mind sharing some stories of the unhinged comm members you've met? I'm thinking of attending a bigger comms meet that's a couple of hours drive away and I'm a little worried
>>10910136It’s not really that worrisome, you just learn who to avoid and have a chuckle about behind closed doors. As long as you avoid selling to these people or getting entangled with their drama you should be fine. That being said I feel like it rarely pays off to travel long distances unless you either know someone already that you want to see, or you’re dissatisfied with your local comm. Most of the unhinged people become pretty clear pretty quick, but even if they’re not you only need one interaction to know to avoid them. I went to a private meet once with a girl, not realizing she was psychotic. Now I know it was a private meet with newbs only because the whole comm avoided her like the plague. She lied about owning multiple colorways of SC (before the re-release), talked constantly about how she’s always been targeted by racists even though it later came out that she’s actually 100% white, and basically invited us to dinner just to try and get us to buy into her weird mlm shit. Most people are maybe a bit awkward, but not like full blown crazy.
>>10910029>letting the bad "Western gyaru" fattie in the picdisgusting.
>>10910136There's something in the water where I live, I swear.Several years ago, someone was constantly dragging our comm here. Then she started needlessly targeting me. Meanwhile, I'm mid-transaction with this bitch, buying a meta jsk. I realize it's her over a series of events. lol. Dig further, find her tumblr. She made a shitpost about people owning her dream dresses. Turns out, everyone she was targeting on here owned her dream dress. I anon post in a thread, and bait her enough to get her to selfpost. She gets torn to shreds on here, far worse than anything she posted about us. It was the most glorious of train wrecks. A few years later, she ended up on the banned list on lacemarket for scamming people. IDK what happened to ol Christmas Hams, but I hope her mental health is stable. I did get the dress, laughed and eventually just sold it off cause I didn't want that bad juju.Other notorious characters, including one in a salmon dress with a particular vocal disdain for wigs. Also a penchant for groping minors in front of security getting ejected from cons. Never joined the comm at least.
>>10910164Also, NTAYRT, forgot to add that part.
>>10910162I didn't even recognise that as gyaru. My first thought was "what's she supposed to be wearing?".I've also never seen a fat gyaru look.... well gyaru. I think it just doesn't work. Happy to be proven wrong though.
>>10910167I mean I would be happy to be proven wrong, so if anyone has any proper fat gyaru pics please share. Not that the girl in >>10910029 looks gyaru, because she doesn't. And probably still wouldn't if she wasn't fat, but it would help.
>>10910162>letting the MAN in the pic
Britfag here, from going to cons and meeting other lolitas, the best comms I’ve heard of are generally the small and tight-knit ones. Wish I didn’t live in the middle of bumfuck nowhere.
>>10910158Was this Goose? It absolutely sounds like Goose. >>10910164This could be Goose too.Fucking wild times in Pittsburgh with her and Naturally Racist kicking around. About Goose, I literally had to reach out to someone and let them know Goose's current IG handle in case she was the one harassing them.
>>10910186It wasn’t goose, but didn’t she also claim to be Mexican? I’m pretty sure she’s the one who got her whole genealogy posted on here going back to the 1700s showing she was white. This girl claimed to be part Asian and that she was adopted which was debunked by the MAGA side of her family when they saw a post she’d made about Asian adoptees on Facebook. Guess she forgot to block *all* of her relatives. ‘‘Twas a wild ride, y’all. Shes still not even technically banned.
>>10910167> My first thought was "what's she supposed to be wearing?"This was my first thought as well. I’m sure the comm members didn’t recognize her as Gyaru until she told them which shows the overall effort she put into her appearance. The problem with the resurgence in Gyaru is that black girls find out about the style and now it’s considered problematic to tan at all. Gyarus with no tans already existed before the boost in popularity but the problem is you need to have a good outfit and make up if you’re not going to tan, which many gyarus today don’t do.
>>10910190My comm actually had not one but two black people who rolled through and got busted lying about being half Japanese. It’s weirdly common.
>>10910029By far the worst comm personality wise
>>10910168>>10910167i only have a pic of a cute, fat, jp himegyaru bbu i don't think that counts. >>10910198please don't throw black girls under the bus like this. only crazy SJWs and colorist bitter bitches care about tanning. and there are many subsets of gyaru that don't tan, none of the cutesy styles like hime or agejo or roma need tans at all.
>>10910218see >>10910186 the pittsburgh comm has had more than its fair share of issues especially considering how small it is. theres so much drama that never made it on here and it is heavy shit too. k8, goose, and naturally racist were/are all pittsburgh comm members. i felt for the mods, even tho they were basically useless. they didn’t ban anyone even after tons of shitty behavior and repeated complaints.
>>10910190She did. She said some business discriminated against because of her Spanish accent. Honestly, fucking legend. She supposedly scammed Naturally Racist during some bjd transaction. Racist warned the comm about Goose, but she ran amuck in the comm anyway.>>10910247The current mods are better. But one of the former mods basically worked to keep Naturally Racist in the comm, despite the fact that NR had harassed and stalked a teenage member, among other things. And we lost a really good mod, L., I suspect largely to Goose's harassment. The last mod team would actually hold bullshit "investigations" on members based on rumors and accusations. But for people who were actual problems like Goose, they'd just make a rule, or in NR's case, literally assign her an adult sitter from the mod team.
>>10910219seconding this. only weirdoes care that much about tanning. I think people should be getting made fun of for shitty tans though
>>10910340Kek “investigations”. What a load of horse shit. I feel like pretty much all mods are non confrontational pushovers at the end of the day. Minor infractions or bs hearsay drama gets an investigation if you seem like a compliant comm member. Ie: an easy target. But the people who are consistently shitty and very confrontational, dramatic, and willing to fight to the ends of the earth for their shitty take get endless second chances and rarely is ever get banned until they do something so bad it can’t be ignored because it gets noticed outside the comm. like NRs very public racist af comments. Apparently lying about being adopted and part asian at almost 30 is fine, but I got a warning for selling something at a price less than $30 more than I paid for it bc a newb got butthurt when she saw the LM listing. Left the comm after that and never looked back.
>>10910340why won't anyone say what goose actually did? iirc no one even said it on the farms either
>>10910341oh totally. bad tan, bad make, bad coord, bad hair are all fair game. i just hate that the gal comm is a political shitshow right now, but it sounds like the lolita comm is as well. it's all just arbitrary virtue signaling and it's stressful to deal with. what happened to get wild be sexy?
>>10910347It was said, and got taken down.
>>10910219>only crazy SJWs and colorist bitter bitches care about tanningThat's most black girls though
>>10910219>japan uses tanning to fight colorismracist!!>westerners co-opt japanese fashion that's meant to fight their cultural normstotally fine. It's too late.
>>10910219I acknowledged in this post that certain substyles didn’t need tans, but tanning and the rebellious make up of Gyaru is how the subculture started and what it stands for. That would be like lolita suddenly changing from being modest to angelic pretty selling micro skirts, that’s basically what’s happening to Gyaru right now. A part of why oldschool gyaru looks the way it does is because japan in the 90s and early 00s didn’t have black representation in the public eye like we do today, so girls didn’t see how buying the darkest shade of foundation in the store would be considered problematic. You should also consider the fact that gyaru depleted in popularity after Gyaru magazines started pushing light skinned gals with no extreme make up as their models. In my opinion, this new era of Gyaru isn’t even rebellious to begin with and basically ignores what the original gals wanted in the 90s.
>>10910727a lot of gals weren't even using makeup-- dark foundation wasn't and still isn't common in japan and sun damage wasn't as big of a worry in the 90s, so actual UV tanning was pretty popular. i think it's kind of weird that people will see a tan japanese girl and automatically assume it's makeup.
>>10910730Nayrt, I'm not a gyaru and have never been but I did "read" a lot of early 2000s gyaru magazines (and listened to eurobeat, ike ike is still a recurring ear worm) and iirc both tanning and darker foundation were commonly used. Some gals would use dark foundation that matched their tanned skin even if their bare skin was immaculate. So I don't think it was "using dark foundation on light skin" but more "using dark foundation to match tanned skin". The enthusiasts also spent a lot of money on tanning, trying to get darker.Now things are very different. I saw a small documentary on current "old school" gyaru in Japan and it seems they get spray tans.Gyaru in general has lost its heart and soul. Although I do understand people not wanting to risk skin cancer.
>>10910730Ayrt and some people can’t tan naturally, which I believe is something you may be confused about. Of course most Asians won’t be type 1 but that’s up to genetics and not necessarily your race. Like >>10910738 stated there was a combination of both. Sun damage wasn’t a worry in the 90s but if your one of the lighter skin types you can find that out for yourself.
>>10910738AYRT, yeah, i think we're on the same page here! the reason tanning was popular in the first place was because social norms idealised paler skin as a holdover from when how tan someone was indicated how much field work they did, and lightening creams were extremely popular. gyaru rejected this norm by tanning their skin. the bleached hair comes from something similar-- bleached hair used to be banned from most schools and even some workplaces, and sometimes associated with delinquency. both come from a place of rejecting homogeneity. but i mostly brought it up because the whole "it's racist to tan" thing is just feels delusional with the context that a lot of girls were using their own natural melanin and as a result of the delusion now gyaru has lost all of its subversive aspects and feels purely mainstream.
>>10910727>You should also consider the fact that gyaru depleted in popularity after Gyaru magazines started pushing light skinned gals with no extreme make up as their models.this isn't true at all. it wasn't certain substyles, it was a personal choice, many girls chose not to tan during the most popular point in gyaru because it was very mainstream during the 2000s up to 2010. the only real "style" that requires tanning is kuro because it's in the name. many of the ones involved in hostess culture, followers of ayumi hamasaki, hime-kei wearers and anyone wearing "pop gyaru" never tanned at all. even back in the 90s level of tanning different among gyaru themselves. gyaru didn't die during this time and flourished up until around 2015 where it slowly began gaining influence from instagram on the easily accessed global internet. that's what killed gyaru. not the lack of tanning or tanning or anything related to i. gyaru was only super rebellious for a super short time and then it became worn by attractive girls trying to emulate western trends they saw in videos/magazines. it influenced hostess/host and kyaba culture, music and many forms of media. the reason it's shit now is because of globalization and trend hopping due to tiktok. i suggest you actually do more research into gyaru and what it was and what it evolved into because the shit it is now is a natural progression from what it was in the 2000s.
>>10910730Gyaru often wore foundation on their faces an tanned their face lighter. It was fairly known in Japan/EA that tanning caused wrinkles at the very least. A lot of gyaru used bronzer and darker shades from the US instead of actual foundation(as well as stuff that wasn't even makeup) to achieve the dark tone and makeup looks of the 90s. There are many resources and documentaries that showcase this stuff if you know where to look. I can link some that are available on youtube.>>10910727Most of what you're saying isn't really true and gyaru definitely was booming when less girls were tanning. It was the most popular "style" for a good decade, and was worn by many big popstars of the time. Gyaru only started dying when western internet was more easily accessible, so they could just copy western trends instead of inventing stuff. That's not to say it's not a shame, but what you're saying is disingenuous.
>>10910744>the whole "it's racist to tan" thing is just feels delusional with the context that a lot of girls were using their own natural melaninNTA, but that's the part that's racist apparently. many black women are bitter at lighter skinned women(including other black women) that they are able to tan and it goes away. also i think you are focusing too much on gyaru being rebellious when it was only rebellious for a very short time as other anons have said.
>>10910342The current set doesn't put up with bullshit. I think they realized they can't spend all their energy on the three people being a problem when you have a whole comm. It was an "all hands on deck" situation getting Goose out. She actually called a literal teenager in the comm and wailed at the poor girl to do something about her, Goose, getting kicked out. But I do get why people who are not being paid and rarely thanked are loathe to deal with drama llamas.>>10910347It's not fun gossip, and not surprised the Farm took it down. Here's some fun gossip.We were headed to a park, and K8 and Naturally Racist were at the back of the pack. I was walking slowly just keep an eye on people. While I wasn't eavesdropping, I did catch enough of their conversation to realize they were bonding over their encounters with Goose.
>>10910910Goose was truly the worst. Especially given how long she was in the comm without getting banned and given the fact that other fandoms/hobbies she came from actively warned Lolita’s about her. She scammed people on LM, stalked people, lied pathologically, cornered and love bombed newbs to use them as character references and gaslight everybody, openly admitted to and bragged up about draining her husband dry financially because of course she’s too disabled to work, but also stated openly and publicly that she never had sex with him and never would, sold counterfeit BJDs and then used everyone’s hatred of Naturally Racist to avoid accountability, insisted she was rich whilst also demanding payment plans on items less than $50, lied about being Mexican and dealing with racism related to her Mexican accent when she’s actually as white as she looks, oh, and actually was super racist towards Chinese people and describes them as dirty. I was told by someone who would have known that she attempted to essentially blackmail “someone” by stealing their racy photos and that’s what got her banned. I’m not sure if what they told me is the truth, but given the context of some other things I won’t share here, it made sense. She also threatened to sue the mods when they banned her.Someone should make a copy pasta of that infamous pretentious novel she included on that COF post of her coord for Tekko that one year. It sums up her attitude and narcissism perfectly. Who’s worse than goose? Any contenders in your local comms?
>>10910200how did you find out they lied about it. other than it being obvious on sight
>>10910954NTA but it’s not always obvious on site. The person I saw get caught was outed the way most people get outed for lying about their race- siblings and other family members don’t have any idea what you’re talking about when it comes up, or even actively come out and say it’s a lie publicly like the girl whose family came out on fb and straight up said she’s not a half Asian adoptee.
>>10910077It's just NLOG behavior, I've never met another lolita that didn't have some other kind of Japanese interest somewhere
>>10911048It is weirdly common for Lolitas to lie about not ever liking anime. maybe it’s just a reflex to avoid neckbeards attempting to converse with them or gatekeep them about obscure anime. I’ve always found it weird when Lolitas go to cons but then insist they’re not into anime and get butthurt when rando con-goers think they’re cosplaying. K8 claims to not like anime and that it’s stupid, but I’m pretty sure k8 has some anime tattoos and was a super weeb back in the day. Not sure why some people think they’re better because they don’t like anime, and I say that as someone in the fashion who hasn’t watched anime since middle school.
>>10911098They probably internalized the idea that anime/weebishness is "cringe" and are insecure about being associated with it
>>10911048>>10911098>>10911101nayrt, but usually the lolitas who scream they're not into anime (and make it sound like anime is bad and gross) are always into some other japanese non fashion related thing. Usually music and/or manga.It's been very rare that I've encountered a lolita who claimed to not be into any non fashion related japanese thing ("I only like lolita fashion, I'm not interested in other japanese things. Sorry."), but when I did I always found out it was a lie. I'm convinced they have internalized the belief that being into aspects of japanese culture/media is cringe.I was into anime/manga/j-pop when I found out about lolita, there were a lot of years afterwards where I wasn't into anime (and manga and j-pop) anymore but I've never hidden the fact that I've enjoyed it in the past or suggested that I was better than other people for not being into anime anymore. Now I'm back into anime.As a concept it should be perfectly possible and fine for someone who is into lolita fashion not to be into any other japanese things, but in reality I just haven't encountered that yet.
>>10911098I saw a huge rise in this in weeb fandom - people suddenly "growing up and quitting anime (often moving on to obsessing over US cartoons)" - back when LiveJournal died and everyone moved to Tumblr. Literally, within the span of a few months to a year or two of someone moving to Tumblr their personality and hobbies would completely change and they would deny the previous them.
>>10911118if we're talking about the past, in the online lolita community during the LJ days it was considered cringe and bad to like anime and manga so people tended to hide it and only talk to people about it if they knew they were okay with it. It was believed that people into anime didn't know the difference between cosplay and lolita, or didn't know the difference between lolita and lolita-adjacent fashion in anime, or that it brought you close to being an ita, who were stereotyped as being crazy about anime and manga and wanted to shoehorn anime and otaku culture items into their outfits (often anime t-shirts, maid cosplay, cat ears, tail, choker with a bell, etc). Anime in the 2000s also had a bad reputation (compared to now) because people were still associating anime with the anime that made its way to the US in the 90s which were often full of gore and sex. Anime in the 2000s itself was also often very fanservice-y low brow entertainment, some belonged to the harem genre or had very icky themes (go check out Loveless, or rather don't). Admitting to liking anime made people assume you were probably a degenerate or an edgelord. With some exceptions of course, some 2000s anime was great.
>>10911118>I'm grown up now because I watch different cartoons than I used to!I have no words
>>10911127> Anime in the 2000s itself was also often very fanservice-y low brow entertainment, some belonged to the harem genre or had very icky themes (go check out Loveless, or rather don't).man, shut up
>>10911193You like Love Hina don't you.
>>10911195nta but it sounds like you only watched dubbed anime or something.
>>10911317because? If you're not going to give a reason I'm just going to have to assume you have interpreted what I said to mean "all 2000s anime is bad". Or is it because you romanticize the 2000s because of nostalgia? Maybe you are simply not aware how much shitty anime was released back then. With the exception of what aired on tv I've only watched subbed anime. Can't stand dubbed.
>>10910029left to rightwould, would, would, pass, pass, pass, wife, pass, would, kill it with fire
>>10911330there is way way more shitty anime now. i would take any 2000s fanservice harem over "i isekai'd as a sentient asmr mic for a high school all girl asmr club" anime has always had good and bad but some shit now is sickening.
>>10911330nta but anime is still full of fanservice and low brow entertainment now. The harems just moved into isekai
>>10911476exactly, if anything there is more bad anime now because there are more companies making anime, let's not discount the omegaverse yaoi anime being marketed as a cute gay family show. or the copious amounts of straight up hentai being officially subbed(like interspecies reviewer). if anything smut is more prevalent and normalized in basically everything. even apothecary diaries has some uncomfortable things in it.
>>10911469I didn't say there aren't shitty anime now. That's not the point. It's also not a fair comparison to compare a 2000s fanservice harem to the most obscure low budget isekai anime out there today. The barrier to entry to making anime is far lower now.>>109114762000s was peak fanservice, sometimes in shows that had no substance to justify the fanservice in the first place.>>10911482I would take interspecies reviewers (uncencored) over the large majority of harem anime from the 2000s. Smut itself isn't the problem. Interspecies reviewers isn't fan service, it's basically soft core animated porn.I would take interspecies reviewers over any 2000s anime that lacked a story but had upskirt shots, boob shots, etc galore.For me personally there have been some shows recently that blow the large majority of 2000s anime (regardless of genre) straight out of the water. Is there cringe shit now? Sure. Does some recent anime lack substance? Absolutely. That's not the point. I loved anime in the 2000s, but imo there are more good animes being released every season now imo than there used to be in the 2000s. If your argument is that there's simply more anime being released and that explains that, then that's fair. That doesn't stop me from thinking a lot of 2000s anime is boring and lacking in substance.I'm getting far more shows right now where I'm enjoying every single episode compared to in the 2000s, when I made myself sit through some episodes of some shows for the sake of the story just because I had basically seen everything else that got subbed. There were also plenty of slow seasons for me in the 2000s where I didn't like anything that was being released, or just one show.
>>109115182000s was only peak fanservice because the broadcasting laws were different and allowed a little more. They still do whatever they can get away with
>>10911518>I got tricked by fanservice shit before but don't anymore so therefore it doesn't exist anymore!so this confirmation bias anecdotal evidence. got it.
>>10911518>there are more good animes being released every season now imo than there used to be in the 2000sI'd say there are also more abysmally bad anime being release now, you probably just ignore them because you have enough variety to. Whether you like the best of 2000s anime or the best of modern anime is just down to taste
>>10911547how did I get tricked by fan service? If it was in a good show I just put up with it, if it was in a bad show I just didn't continue watching beyond one episode.>>10911549>I'd say there are also more abysmally bad anime being release nowthat's not really important to me as long as I have more options in high quality anime compared to before."It's just down to taste" is only valid to a certain extent. The quality of the animation itself is more of an objective thing. So is the sound design/soundtrack. Story telling is a bit more subjective, but the quality is generally reflected in how well it's received. However popular does not necessarily mean good. Naruto was/is popular, it's also been one of the most mocked anime ever. How many more anime are simply popular because a lot of kids and teens watch it, who then build nostalgia for it and watch it as adults, but it's far less popular with people who watch it for the first time as adults. You could say it's just demographics, that these shows weren't intended for adults. But you do get more discerning with age. Just look at the childhood shows you did not have nostalgia for. You'll think "I watched this and enjoyed it? This did not age well". Good kids/teen shows age well and are entertaining for all age groups even if they were intended for children and teens.
>>10911581you are so incredibly wrong about what you're saying.
>>10911778Come up with some reasons then.
It’s hilarious to me how this thread brings up people frowning on liking anime in the Lolita community, then proceeds to illustrate exactly why that’s the case by spamming the thread with completely irrelevant back and forth arguing over shitty tv shows normal people haven’t watched since they were like 13. Thats exactly how the weebs in my comm act, with no self awareness of the fact that literally no one cares about their anime-related opinions and philosophy. It’s not inherently lolita related, and it definitely doesn’t belong in the comms thread, but thanks for proving a point
>>10911782everyone has given you many reasons and examples but you just give shitty anecdotes about how it doesn't affect you. you can't back up something you stated as fact with a bunch of opinions. just take the L and stop derailing the thread.
>>10911813There aren't really any inherently lolita topics in general, barring simply talking about lolita. Activities and topics comms tend to stick to are just lolita adjacent and often barely. Plus I have never met a lolita who wasn't a weeb. 99% of lolitas learn about it through anime or cosplay or cons. Anyone saying otherwise is lying.
>>10911813I had a good laugh at this. Not wrong. Most every event I’ve been to 2-3 anime fans dominate the entire conversation and refuse to discuss anything else no matter how clear it is that the rest of us would like to move on. It’s maybe more related to being younger than liking anime but it is pretty annoying nonetheless. >>10911855I disagree. Best conversations I have are usually about life, school, work, and the fashion itself. Jewelry making/crafting is also a very common topic, haha and let’s not forget gossip about the community in general. There’s so much more to talk about than anime, and it’s actually not as common in my comm for people to have been introduced through anime. People definitely lie about that, but I know two people who were introduced through GLB which later introduced them to the anime scene by association. I also know people who were introduced through the Harajuku fashion craze of 2010s. People who feel the need to remind you 24/7 that they’re not into anime tend to be kind of douchey though, so take that as you will.
>>10911518People have nostalgia goggles, they hear "2000 anime" and think about classics like death note and soul eater, not shit nobody remembers like bottle fairy or magic users club which was actually the majority, kind of like how now most stuff is bad but some good
>>10911853No they have not. "fanservice has been replaced by isekai" and "they had more fanservice because of lax rules" does not disprove that 2000s was peak fanservice. "there is more anime being released now, so you could say there's more bad anime too" doesn't disprove that there's more higher amount of good anime being released now. "you got tricked by fanservice" isn't even an argument, it's a wild baseless assumption. "You're just wrong bro" is also no argument.You're all just mad because you think I'm spitting on your nostalgia.Take your own advice by taking the L and shutting up.
>>10911862exactly, they probably have nostalgia for an era during which they weren't even watching anime. Because great anime got released far and few between you had to wade through the masses of mediocre and bad anime if you wanted to watch anime you hadn't seen before. Today that isn't the case, there are more good anime per season being released. And that's not even touching on the fact that you now have a much bigger library of past anime to go back to if you wanted to.Magic users club wasn't even bad. It's stuff like "Eiken", "Endsky" and "the cosmopolitan prayers" (yes, I know there's bad anime now, that's not the point). That's not even touching on the mass of low mediocre anime. (love hina is definitely on that list for me as well as LoveLess). It's also much easier to avoid watching even one episode of bad anime today because of how much more free coverage there is on new anime.
>>10911861nayrt but anime rarely gets brought up in my local comm online or irl. I think it just depends on how weeby your local comm members are. I know plenty of my local comm members watch anime, it's just not a common topic outside of one on one conversations.
Post about comms or go somewhere else. No one cares about your argument over which cartoons are or aren’t worth watching as a grown adult.
>>10911865Personally I prefer quality over quantity
>>10911872Do you know what site you are on? Lmao
>>10911878Do you know what fucking thread you're in? Go back to circlejerk, newfag.
Phoenix unironically.
>>10911876ayrt, and yes, me too. That's why I prefer the current year for anime. I prefer having multiple great animes to watch every season over having one or none.
>>10911891But you're wrong. What "great anime" came out last season?
>>10911872>she thinks all cartoons are for kidskek. this thread is fucking garbage anyway, who cares.
>>10911900Have you watched anime this and last season?
>>10910029Nope. None of the Texas comms are good. Try again.
>>10912314Who burnt your biscuit? Do share.
>>10910029So which one is thy psyco who started the drama over the Corolla?
>>10912334The what? Give us the tea.
I genuinely like my comm these days. We had a few cows who had so much milk i could write a novel about it, but they have either become entirely inactive or have really matured and grown up since they joined. We are all good friends outside of the comm too. We don’t take things too seriously and thankfully they aren’t caught up on appearing like cute innocent flowers despite being grown women, they are actually really funny and don’t mind making playful friendly jabs at each other. A lot of them are really creative and have taught me so much since i joined.
>>10910027Does anyone have any experience with the Dutch comm? I've been interested in them for awhile now.
I like hanging out with my comm because it means I have more reasons to put together a coord but it feels like dress sizing is a topic that is too sore to talk about unless you’re shitting on x brand for not sizing large enough. I’m personally taking care of my weight issue and got to the point where I can wear AP’s partial shirring JSKs, but it’s not something I can share openly because “clothes should fit you, not the other way around”. I’m fixing my health, why is that taboo?Feels like I can only connect on a superficial level with so much butthurt feelings about lolita.
>>10914507There are more local comms in which the topics of sizing and weight are not allowed. I think it's kind of ridiculous people can't talk about sizing, or that you can't say "I've been living a healthy lifestyle and now I fit into my dream dress" and things like that in a FASHION community of all places. The only upside I see about policies like that is that it also means that complaining about brand sizing is not allowed.I do agree that clothes should fit you, not the other way around. BUT you're allowed to be happy that you fit into stuff now as a side effect of living healthier.I don't even mind hearing that people diet solely to fit into stuff, as long as I don't have to read about anyone doing very stupid/dangerous dieting practices.I wish comms would allow sizing talk in general except for the complaining that "AP is fat phobic because they don't cater to my size 20" and stuff like that.
>>10914554>I do agree that clothes should fit you, not the other way aroundnta but i hate this logic. it's super entitled, because it doesn't mean you should find things that fit, rather that you should complain and make companies cater to you.
>>10914556That is not the way I ever interpreted that line. I thought it meant something along the lines of "instead of losing weight to fit into a certain size, just ignore what the size tag says and get the size that fits you", and things like looking for brands that do make your size, getting things altered to fit you or making things from scratch if nobody is catering to you.I was introduced to the line in a video about the history of ready-to-wear fashion, and how people in modern times sometimes attach way too much importance to the size tag, and that it was the norm in the past for people to get things made for their body specifically and to alter the clothes when the body changed."demanding every brand cater to every size" is imo a twisting of what I think that line means. I think it's good that there are plus sized options for lolitas, but I do not think every brand absolutely has to cater to that demographic.
>>10914561are you seriously arguing people don't use it the way i said? that's been the entire usage of it in the lolita community. i have never heard it the way you said outside the comm either. the term outside of lolita means to not change yourself to fit into clothes.
>>10914561this is pretty much how i see it. if you really love a brand so much nothing else will do, it's not that hard to learn to sew or find a tailor.
>>10914568… or just lose some weight.
>>10914554ayrt and yeah I mostly agree with everything you’re saying. One of the things that got me to start treating myself better and getting into shape was for sure that feeling of really wanting to be able to wear my dream dress. If someone is being sour grapes in conversations because the only thing they want to wear is Mary Magdalene and can’t fit it, but also is resigned to not even trying to alter it or fit it through healthy weight loss/safe use of binding/etc that’s a huge downer… obviously I’d never brag or promote unhealthy habits to fit into brand, it took almost an entire year of changing my lifestyle to get to this point and I still have more goal dream dresses I want to wear. If there’s one that just won’t go on for reasons outside of my power to change after doing what I can, no reason not to get it altered. I just felt really proud of what I’d accomplished, broached the subject in a very indirect way and was met with a tangential deluge of conversation about how brands are shit and don’t want their money and can only fit teenagers. So that was really awkward. I’ll probably just show up to the next meetup in my dream dress and quietly enjoy wearing it lmao
>>10914564>are you seriously arguing people don't use it the way i said?No, I didn't say that. I've rarely heard it in the lolita community, but when I did I interpreted it the way I always do because I saw no reason to think it meant something else. The people who I saw saying the line didn't also mention asking brands to make certain sizes. Also "not change yourself to fit into clothes" is not the same as "demand brands make your size". There's no entitlement attached to the former.Are you saying that you're sure that the general way the line is intended within the lolita community is that you're supposed to demand brands cater to you if they don't do so already?
>>10914575ayrt and it's great that you took the long and healthy road. You're already a winner in my book. It sucks that people have to rain on your parade because of their own issues.>how brands are shit and can only fit teenagersAre they saying that japanese women who fit into a japanese women's size M are built like teenagers? Because if they are, that's racist. And also not very body positive of them.>brands are shit and don’t want their money Btssb's attempt at plus size failed because not enough people were buying it. AtePie has said only 30% of the western lolitas who said they would buy certain pieces if they released them in plus size followed through (vs 80% of japanese customers). A lot of people who wouldn't even buy brand if it was available in their size still demand that it SHOULD be available just for the sake of being available. When the plus size brand topic has come up in the past on fb I had a look at the profiles of the people screeching the hardest that brands should sell plus sizes, and most of the time they only bought chinese brands that offered plus sizes/custom sizing and complained about brands being too expensive. They were never going to buy meta or maxicimam or atepie.>I’ll probably just show up to the next meetup in my dream dress and quietly enjoy wearing it lmaoYou should definitely do this, I hope you'll have a great time.
>>10914572Losing weight won't change the width of one's shoulders or change the length of one's torso or even something like height, it's not an end-all be-all solution to issues of fit.
>>10914581>Are they saying that japanese women who fit into a japanese women's size M are built like teenagers? Because if they are, that's racist. And also not very body positive of them.I've heard similar things in my comm, it's hurtful but no one says anything about it. No one makes jokes about the clothing of larger sizes, but comparing someone's body to that of a minor is ok I guess.
>>10914595It's a gross double standard. And it would never fly in my comm.
>>10914588>it's not an end-all be-all solution to issues of fit.It is for like 95% of western women
>>10914595The only way to make these jokes stop is to start calling people out when they make them. Point out how uncomfortable, weird and racist it is. My comm had a few people who used to make those jokes all the time and they've mostly stopped now because those of us who felt it was weird stopped letting it slide and awkwardly pretending to laugh. Instead we started shutting it down, pointing out that plenty of us are in our 20s and 30s can fit brand with no problems and we encourage the plus size members to support plus size releases when brands like meta and atepie make them. Now when someone tries to make jokes about how Japanese brands are 'built for children/teens' or 'no one is that size' it doesn't fly anymore.
>>10914612nayrt but this sounds like it could be a very north american perspective because americans sometimes forget that they're shorter than a lot of europeans. When it comes to a brand like Mary Magdalene a lot of european lolitas would need alterations because of their height, like extending straps and then the seams still won't necessarily sit where they're supposed to. Significantly taller people (I mean taller than whatever height a brand is patterning for) also tend to be broader (proportionally) and probably won't fit MM even at a healthy weight unless they've very narrowly built. Then there's shoulder width, MM's blouses have very narrow shoulders (32cm). I have some btssb blouses that have a shoulder width of 38cm, that is a significant difference.I doubt that ONLY 5% of healthy weight western lolitas can't fit into MM because of things like shoulder width, height and rib cage circumference. I think it's a considerably higher % than that.Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining that MM doesn't cater to people outside of their current target demographic. But you need to know MM isn't like btssb or a lot of other brands. I know plenty of lolitas who fit into unshirred btssb who don't fit into MM.
>>10914572every time i get this reply i cut up more brand. thanks for the motivation!
>>10914620MM's reputation is undeserved. I know girls that are tall, fat, or both that still fit into a number of their pieces. The babydoll cuts and long sleeve OPs are pretty small, but almost all of the short sleeve OPs and JSKs fit fine on tallitas, and the shirred pieces usually fit up to a 75cm-80cm waist and 98-104 bust. it may not fit an obese woman, but there's still a good amount of options for girls that are just kinda fat.
>>10914621You can cut up all the 2nd rate, unpopular brand pieces you want, no one is going to be mad about it.
>>10914662you sound upset
>>10914662I hope your dream dress gets bought and altered by your local fatlita.
>>10914681>>10914670nta but you two can make all the snarky replies you want, when you look in the mirror you’ll still be blobby with sweat under your rolls, greasy acne and edema legs. don’t worry about losing weight. you can be everyone else’s fatspo
>>10914624ayrt, I thought MM only had a few pieces that accommodated larger. I had heard about the Farutetto jsk being referred to as "the fatty chan dress", and I heard about the perfume bottle jsk being more size flexible. I had a look at lolibrary and there are only 5 main pieces listed as having full shirring, and most of them are from the 2000s. I had a look at some of the babydoll cuts and the max garment bust they listed is 88cm. Are you saying this is not accurate?I think MM is doing themselves a disservice when they only list the minimum measurements of their pieces. I expect the shoulder width remains a problem though. As for the length, I just had a look and some pieces have a decent length for tallitas, however it looks like it's mostly in the skirt portion, meaning the bodice would still be too short and would require alteration.I remain skeptical unless it's truly the case that MM's pieces are far more accommodating than what's listed on lolibrary.
>>10914695>I remain skeptical unless it's truly the case that MM's pieces are far more accommodating than what's listed on lolibrary.they are lol
>>10914699that's MM's fault then.
>>10914695yeah generally they do not list the max bust, just the unstretched bust, and some run larger than advertised in general (a handful run smaller, though, so i recommend asking owners about the fit). very few items have "full shirring" but the partial shirring stretches quite a bit. some of the unshirred skirts run larger as well. the only real issues are: very few items have adjustable straps, the sleeves run very small (even thin girls report issues there), and shoulders as mentioned. but once you know what cuts work on you, you can build a fairly decent wardrobe. the short bodices can be intimidating, but they're usually built to accommodate a bust curve, so they aren't as bad as high waisted cuts from other brands (that usually require a flat chest). the market is super competitive though.
>>10914714ayrt, and thank you for this super informative post.
>>10914576Nta but I have literally never heard it the way you're describing, it's only used as a fat acceptance phrase that implies wanting to lose weight is "giving in" to clothing brand's standards. I have also heard fat lolitas say it that way or imply that they should be holding out for brands to make bigger sizes. I have not once heard it in the "make clothes work for you" manner you have described.
>>10914745>phrase that implies wanting to lose weight is "giving in" to clothing brand's standardsayrt, the way it was explained to me in that video (I suspect it was from Nicole Rudolph or Bernadette Banner, I'm sure it was a historical fashion youtuber) is that too many people are attaching importance to the size tag because of cultural beliefs attached to clothing sizes for women (This didn't exist before ready to wear clothing). The idea that you have to be a certain size, for example for some time that was "size zero". It isn't just a label, people attach importance to it. I don't think it's clothing brand standards that give people this belief, I think it's culture that comes up with these beliefs. I'm not plus sized but I still get fit issues when shopping ready to wear (gaping waistband in the back is a recurring problem), it makes sense to think of it as "these clothes don't fit me properly, It's not my body that's the problem it's the clothes" and get those altered or buy something else that does fit better.But I'm talking about fashion in general, you might have only meant it in the context of lolita fashion.In that case I don't think japanese brands mainly producing japanese women's size M is them setting standards for their customers. They mainly produce that size because it's most of their demographic. I think some western lolitas don't understand that for most japanese lolita brands they are only a drop in the bucket when it comes to sales.>I have also heard fat lolitas say it that way or imply that they should be holding out for brands to make bigger sizes. I see nothing wrong with them hoping brands will produce bigger sizes. I think these are the type of plus sized people who don't think any reason is a good enough reason (except maybe a health scare) to lose excess weight. I see no problem in them politely asking brands to make bigger sizes as long as they actually buy them when they are produced.
>>10914751This is literally not how it's used, what don't you get? Also go back to twitter with this blase positivity, it's embarassing.
>>10914766>blase positivityI'm generally happy. I'm also not bothered by plus sized lolitas simply existing. You sound miserable and like you're looking for a fight online.You can tell me "that's not how it's used" as many times as you like, I've already got someone agreeing with me in this thread alone.
>>10914751>I don't think it's clothing brand standards that give people this belief, I think it's culture that comes up with these beliefs.It's women that come up with this stupid stuff all by themselves and then blame everybody else for it. Always has been.
>>10914774I should have said society, but sure. It's mostly women that do this.
>>10914722anytime! it's my fav brand and i'd love to see more people wearing it.
>>10914714Would MM look bad if you’re actually small chested then?
>>10914783i wouldn't say it looks BAD, but i will say a lot of flatter girls i see wearing it do have issues with the fabric bunching up at the back where they're tightening the lacing more than most, but it looks completely fine from the front and in photos, so it's not an issue unless that's something that bothers you. it's one of the only brands that can actually complement a fuller bust, which is nice. if you definitely need something that works with a smaller bust, they do also have plenty of options that aren't made that way-- like the aforementioned babydoll cuts, the sundresses, and a few of the natural waist and drop cuts will look best on a small chest. there's a sundress cut on mercari right now actually.
>>10914772You're clearly the kind of ugly lolita who wants fatties around so you look better by comparison. >>10914774This it's not like men even know what clothing sizes are.
>>10914863your life must be pretty sad and empty if you genuinely can't imagine someone being neutral towards fatties without having some kind of bizarre scheme. you sound like a broken person.
>>10914891nah anon is right. it's always virtue signaling mid bitches who cape for fatties/trannies/sissies in the comm.
>>10914912>fatties/trannies/sissiesone of these things is not like the othersbeing ugly and annoying is not a moral failing, nor should it place you on the same level as predators and sex pests
>>10914863>>10914912>normal people hate fatties so you're only pretending to be okay with them because you're ugly and want them around so you can look better in comparison.>this also makes you a sissy/fetishist/predator supporterOkay, you're a troll I get it.
>>10914920>>10914956they're all ugly though. you really think the comm isn't full of faghags that tolerate that shit? disliking trannies is a /cgl/ exclusive thing.
>>10914978there's nothing you can do about people in the comm who defend men with crossdressing fetishes. I mean you can leave the comm, or you can get to know people well enough so you can meet up privately, but those people and those guys are going to be at comm meets and online and you can't even try to do anything about it without being kicked out.
>>10915057See now that would be a sane decision, and nonnies above clearly haven’t taken their meds. I have no clue why people sperge out on the same topics of fat people and men/trans women in Lolita. It’s really not complicated. If you don’t like it, go somewhere else where your opinions are welcome.
>>10915124>spergeAnon stop.
>>10914745I use it and no, it's a "stop beating yourself up because it's extremely unhealthy and won't help you lose weight or make you feel better about yourself, sometimes things just won't fit and you should look at options and clothes that make you happy now, instead of lamenting what you don't have." Even if I and many others were to lose weight, it doesn't mean we will be happier. It doesn't guarantee clothes will fit right. I could be 100 pounds and it still wouldn't change the fact that my shoulders are 40cm and I look horrible in any dress that requires having a flat chest. the "clothes should fit you not the other way around" is a good mentality for those who have always felt bad about their own sizing, shape, or awkward body proportions. It helps accept that brands don't HAVE to cater to us, and we don't HAVE to buy from them. Because they aren't MADE for us, and that's it. I'd love to be able to wear OPs, but blouse and skirt will always look the most flattering on me. Part of dressing well is knowing what will look good on you, and giving up or finding a solution to what won't.
>>10915406nayrt, I 100% agree. But that makes too much sense and is too positive for CGL.
>>10915406well this makes sense and is not how the other anon was using it, but i think ayrt is claiming that some butthurt lolitas use it as a cope in a sour grapes kind of way, and i've personally seen that sentiment myself. the anon talking about it in a historical context seems out of touch.
>>10915619I'm the anon who talked about first seeing that phrase in a historical fashion video. My definition is the same as what >>10915406 is using. Make clothes work for you now, buy things that fit you now. That I haven't seen it used any other way in the lolita community doesn't mean I'm out of touch. It suggests we don't participate in the same online spaces. I don't visit rufflechat or BSOLF. I'm a member of a few fb groups and 3 discord groups. I'm not in any space anymore where it's normal for people to complain about brand sizing or people who claim that brands are fatphobic.If not going to those places makes me out of touch, then that's not a bad thing.
>>10915619What really grinds my gears is that people complain endlessly in an anonymous format, but then don’t ever actually report anything to the comm itself. As mods, we can’t ban people for looking creepy being awkward or because you don’t like them. You have to SAY SOMETHING. And you have to do that somewhere other than an online rumor mill. What do you expect mods to do when you don’t report anything? Sense it? There was a woman who was an absolute menace in the comm for years because no one would actually report her behavior, they’d hash it out on here instead and then talk about how useless the mods were even though they never even tried to out any effort into getting the person booted.
biggest loser-chan here (self proclaimed dw) I wore my dream dress to my comm's meetup and I felt absolutely fantastic. People were really sweet in person, as is the usual case. I still have a long road ahead but all the cute dresses I want to wear paving that road are exciting and motivating. Regarding the use of the clothes fitting phrase, I've heard it used both ways being discussed. The way it *should* be used is absolutely that you gotta focus on what clothes fit you, support brands that release the clothes you wear, and stop pouring your time into lamenting the brands that don't. It feels bad and that time is better used doing something that makes you feel happy.Unfortunately, and I was guilty of this too, it can turn into a sort of cope mantra to use in those times you feel bitter about clothing fit, which is imo what was happening in my comm's discord when I first posted to this thread.Anyway, today was a good day.
>>10916080realistically they probably did report it, the mods said "we'll look into it" and then nothing happened.
>>10915619ayrt and I think that there definitely is a subset of people that way who haven't come to that ultimate conclusion yet, because they're still very much affected by the way others treat them including brands. I'll be real: not being the default "size" really fucks with you. My chest is large. It will always be large. I was lucky this was seen as a "positive" trait to most, but I was never happy about it, especially when it limited me from wearing the clothes I love most. There was absolutely a time where I was frustrated and would commiserate with other lolitas about how I felt the fashion was not MADE for me, how the extra hurdle made me feel about my own body. It was only through talking about it and coming to the conclusion there just aren't enough people for brands to care even if they wanted to for me to move past it and look at my own clothing and myself in a healthier way. I think a lot of people are in the middle of that journey and it can really hurt to feel rejected, even if its only a perceived rejection. Honestly I think a lot of "plus size" lolita is really ugly and that doesn't help either, because people with those issues see themselves as getting "scraps". It's true for normie clothes too- trying to get fitted clothes in the 2010's was a nightmare for me.
>>10916108As a mod, this is definitely not what happens. Even before I was a mod I knew that people just liked to bitch about people and spread rumors but pretty much never actually went to the mods because either a) 90+% of what they were saying was total bullshit, or b) they had done something in the situation that they didn’t want to get out in the process of investigating. People always like to shit on mods even when they never even tried to go to them with anything other than total hearsay, but even then that’s enough to get mods to ban people in many cases. People are lazy doormats who just want to complain because if they came forward with anything they’d have to actually confront a problem.
>>10916362You clearly don’t know of the Atlanta mods defending the sissy ageplaying 50 year old man after being confronted multiple times on Facebook. >>10916108 is right, this happens all the time. You don’t speak for every comm.
>>10916375Can confirm. Even if you have reliable proof, a lot of community mods just say they'll "investigate" and nothing ever comes of it. Sometimes you can even get in trouble for going public with it for "muddying up the investigation", or be accused of "drama mongering" for having proof on hand. If there's a problem with under-reporting, it's probably because when problems are reported, mods either don't act on the report, or retaliate against the reporter.
>>10916362>>10916375nayrt, the only times I went to the mods about a problem with another comm member it was about a middle aged sissy testing boundaries with people about what he could say, do and post. I provided the CCs. I got told "we'll look into it". They came back with "He hasn't broken any rules", and told me he was socially awkward, probably didn't mean anything by what he said and was probably not aware of how others would interpret it.It looks like this guy has to proposition minors or SA members first before he gets kicked out.This is always the problem with creeps these days, mods won't do anything to prevent these things from happening. They're okay with obvious fetishists/predators in the comm because if they kick them out before any serious rule breaking they're afraid of how that would look.
>>10916452I used to be a mod and it’s shit. We can’t ban people for being weird, because it’s subjective and 90% of any comm is weird as hell. Comm rules are also written so vaguely that it’s hard to ban anyone for anything other than blatant scamming/theft. And at the same time they have to be written vaguely because otherwise someone goes on a power trip. It’s nearly impossible to ban someone for just “testing the boundaries”. Comms need better and clearer rules and community members need to self regulate when the rules don’t allow mods to intervene. IMHO Mods are honestly afraid to address any issues involving trans women or sissies posing as trans women because they almost always make it seem like it’s due to their gender as opposed to their behavior and are pretty good at masking it behind being socialized as male and not knowing how to socialize with women yet. They also typically have allies in the comm who are very vocal in their support of the person, while the people who don’t like them rarely say anything because they don’t want to be drawn into the moral policing either. It’s always funny to me that people here act like they’d ban these people left and right when in reality pretty much no one would be willing to publicly put themselves on blast. If I made the rules I’d ban anything nsfw and anyone who shares or participates in or shares nsfw content because I’m asexual and sick and tired of hearing about people’s sex life in my comm. If you couldn’t say it at work, no one wants to hear it at a comm event. Private meets do whatever you want.
>>10916642>community members need to self regulate when the rules don’t allow mods to intervene.what would this look like in practice? Just me telling that guy (he himself said he's a cis man) that what he's doing is making me uncomfortable and that it's not appropriate for the comm? I'm afraid he would do something in retaliation or say "you're a sexist, nobody else has a problem with me".iirc my comm has a rule saying not to try to solve issues with other comm members (unless it's something minor), and to talk to the mods.This guy offered up his house to use as a home base for a meetup, so people could change their clothes and have something to drink. The next thing he says is that he thinks it would be a nice idea to have a slumber party. What did people do? Nothing, they did not react to him. He was not kicked out, he did not get a stern talking to.Most of the comm members ignore him which I think is a good thing. The only friend he has in the comm is one of the mods. The other problem is that newcomers talk to him, which encourages him.
>>10916781>what would this look like in practice?> most of the comm members ignore him You answered your own question nonny.
>>10911869>EndskyIf you've read the VN so you can sort of follow the plot it actually becomes really really funny.
>>10916642so you're underage is what you're saying
>>10916785Or the mods could stop being cowardly, pussyfooting bitches and actually confront and boot the guy. The truth is that most mods are too busy beating around the bush while there's sissies in a comm making people uncomfortable, but I will concede that some "ally" comm members are eerily comfortable with just letting creepy dudes around because muh trans or muh socially awkward though. They'd kick up the biggest fuss about it and ignore how the other comm members feel. I get the fear of opening up pandora's box for powertripping etc, but I think making an exception to ban an outwardly and objectively creepy male member shouldn't be this world ending event. Man, sissy or trans kicking up a fuss with multiple members bringing up complaints? Get the fuck out. At least my comm mods were pretty active about this type of situation. He was being creepy, making odd comments towards girls and showing up to their workplace and acting all buddy-buddy so he got kicked regardless of the rules. That's how it should be done imo. Would've been harder if he was trans though, I bet. A lot of you are obedient little bootlickers content with letting other comm members get crept on in exchange for good girl points. See Atlanta.Yeah, mods are usually confronted about this shit and they sit around waiting for something criminal to happen, and even then there's always some convenient excuse or explanation depending on the man's identity. I don't believe for a second what you said >>10916362 There's an objectively bad track record here. Mods should be taking complaints seriously.
>>10916843i think it's weird and telling that mods will still do this even if the creep openly identifies as a cis man. even if he isn't trans they won't do anything.
Women are terrified to raise an issue about a creepy man (and when I say 'man' I am including transwomen because they are men) because we know deep down that when a creepy man gets told 'no' there's a chance he might get physically violent, become a stalker, shoot someone, etc.
>>10916843Then you go be a mod if you think it’s that simple. Maybe there are comms out there where this wouldn’t be an issue, but when I was a mod, it was constant bullshit, and constant back forth he said she said with no receipts and an expectation that mods live to babysit grown ass people. There was a specific comm member who came up all the time in anonymous formats, but no one ever came to the mod team. Hilariously, after I quit the mod team, someone else got banned for shit talking that problematic person because there were actual receipts for that. So an actual contributing member got banned before the problematic member because no one came forward to report her shitty behavior. Mods can only act on comm rules, and can’t act on anything you don’t report. Mods aren’t there to set the rules, they’re there to enforce them. The community sets the rules, and if you have people in your community who are welcoming creeps and advocating for them, the mods can’t really do a whole lot about that if there’s no tangible evidence and no specific rule that the person is breaking. It seems the majority of people are willing to share space with all kinds of weirdos and people who are, at best, Lolita fashion adjacent. That’s not your local mods fault, that’s a community problem on the whole.
>>10916856I completely and fully agree. Were comm members truly starting rumors and being catty or did something come up and was it deliberately ignored to give some retard the benefit of the doubt? This isn't even about whatever side of the culture war we're on, do your fucking job. Take complaints seriously. Thoroughly investigate things. Overall comm mods are so preoccupied with the nebulous """bad actor""" comm members trying to get innocent men kicked out that they forget to protect and genuinely investigate when there is an actual bad actor in the comm, even when shown the evidence directly.And the best part is, when these mods get confronted they hunker down to protect some guy nobody likes and accuse members of drama mongering. "H-He's a good boy!" Go fuck yourselves. This goes triple for the mods who trip themselves over protecting minors in a comm over their side in the culture wars.>>10916858>That’s not your local mods fault, that’s a community problem on the whole.That's something I can agree on. It's also on the mods to not immediately shrug off evidence by giving god's special little boy or "girl" the absolute best faith imaginable to the point of malicious compliance when analyzing accusations, still see Atlanta. I can see that you're somewhat reasonable, but other mods overall do not have a good track record. But yes, I agree. Talk to your mods directly and gather as much evidence as possible. If they still ignore it then or act deliberately stupid confront them. Easier said than done considering "snitching" on sissies in a comm is twansphobic or whatever adjective people like to use to discredit genuine accusations, but I digress.
>>10916858This 100% my comm also had a problematic member who only came up on anonymous forums. I was a mod and people in my comm would occasionally ask why the member hadn't been banned. I would ask if they were there or if they had receipts. People would never be willing to describe why they saw or heard. Finally she got banned for doing something in public. Everyone suddenly started messaging mods about her problematic behavior and sent screenshots. Everyone wanted her gone. But funnily enough they still hang out with her, post pictures of her and include her. As it turns out nobody had a backbone to tell her to fuck off. And they all hid behind mods to set boundaries for them. She went crying to them about it and they agreed it was "power hungry" mods. Mods can't fix shit if you aren't willing to shut a problematic person out of your life.
>>10916893What you can do in your own community is simple: 1. Block all members that make you uncomfortable. 2. Arrange your own meet ups, and require RSVPs to attend. 3. Blocked members will be unable to RSVP, and thus unable to attend. 4. If they attend anyway, they have violated a rule (most comms have rules against attending RSVP only events uninvited), and you have a case for themto be banned. If they don't attend, you still have a sissy-free event.
>>10916916nayrt, making private events is always the best option if your comm has sissies. But this means you have to have enough solid connections within the comm to organize an event to begin with. I wouldn't call 4 or 5 people attending a meetup, that's closer to a get together with friends.
>>10916998yeah, but you can easily get plenty of people just from advertising the event on whatever page or chat your comm has.
>>10917006plenty of local comms have a rule that says people can't plan/organize/advertise private events on the local comm page. This rule prevents a whole lot of drama, believe me.
>>10916362Depends on the mod. S protected Naturally Racist for years because Naturally Racist is clearly some level of special. She stalked and harassed a teenager. At one point she had a mod as her designated adult sitter. By the comms own rules, she should have been removed a long time ago. When she was finally kicked out, it wasn't over anything that she had done recently. PGL actually has a diversity board and I messaged the mods at the time telling them if they want to be more welcoming to minorities, maybe don't have Naturally Racist as a member.
>>10916893>including people you hate and bei by fake nice to the point that you take pics with them This is why I hated being a mod so much. People are so fake, and hide behind the mods while they not only tolerate, but actively include and make the person they hate feel as if they’re liked in the comm. it’s psychotic. I could understand not being openly mean, but to actively include them while you’re secretly trying to get them banned is fucked.
>>10917051>>10916893>But funnily enough they still hang out with her, post pictures of her and include her.nayrt but this made me laugh because of how stupid it is. If you hate someone then keep a polite distance so you don't have to see them outside of official comm meets. Assuming all of these people hate her they are really cowardly for still inviting her to private hangouts. They have to stop inviting her.On some level I do understand it. If you're too nice with some people they'll think you are friends or want to be their friend. Then this person will invite you to do something together (either just the 2 of you or in a larger group) and you might feel like you can't say no without being really rude. But the sooner you nip it in the bud the better.
>>10917051This. The number of times people expect mods to basically enforce their own personal boundaries is insane. They basically want the mods to enforce a restraining order so that their pushover self won’t end up going along with meets/events with someone they don’t like because they don’t have the ability to avoid or politely decline. Get a therapist to work on that, it’s not the mods job
>>10917051Mods really are the butt of the community. Speaking for myself I have seen people straight up lie on here about a situation and how the mods were handling it. All because I won't gossip with them or confide with them about the situation. Its just not worth putting all these hours trying to maintain peace while also trying to enjoy my hobby
I asked among some of the members in my comm who I know wear Baby if they wanted to do a Kamikaze Girls meetup to watch the film while all wearing solid color Baby coords and it got back around to someone who I wasn't messaging who then posted in the comm Discord server that they felt left out and that not everyone has/can afford/can fit/likes oldschool Baby. That's why I messaged people directly, dipshit.I only messaged like 3 girls and now it's a problem that I wanted an aesthetically cohesive meetup rather than a bunch of people who can't coord with a light smattering of well-put-together oldheads. What the fuck do I do. I feel like apologizing would just make everyone happy but I'm tired of every meetup being an itafest.
>>10917468just say you wanted to do a smaller private meet
>>10917468Just say this is a themed meet and attendees are required to dress in that theme. Also that you were organizing this privately so it wasn't a comm event they were excluded from. You have to right to hang out with your friends, no-one can dictate who you should or should not invite to your private meet.Do not apologize to keep the peace, it won't work and people will assume you purposely left this person out. It would be like an admission of guilt for intentions that you did not have.This wasn't the "exclude x member" meet, it was a meet with a theme.
>>10917468I’d just say it’s a private meet with friends. No one is gonna have a problem with that, and you’re allowed to have meets that don’t include everyone. Tbh it is a bit elitist as a “theme” but that’s kind of the point. I wouldn’t apologize, it only prolongs the incident. Tbh if you said nothing at all it would probably die down pretty quick.
>>10917537>elitistsolid baby coords is as basic as it gets.
>>10917031Isn't S the same mod who's husband cheated on her with another comm member? I heard the girl he cheated on her with was hail bait butt idk how true that is.
>>10917537>elitistI don't see how. Unless you think jpn brand is too expensive even second hand, in which case you are the problem.
>>10917468Don't use the terminology "meet", just say you invited your friends over. I had a girl do this to me as well, she demanded to know why she wasn't invited (the event had already happened). I told her it wasn't a comm event or a meet and shrugged.Do not apologize, this is actually a good thing. The people I invited over dressed well, were actually into the fashion, and we ended up being our own little splinter faction of the comm and we are very close now.
>>10917545He didn't cheat on her with a comm member, but he always gave out creeper vibes. I wouldn't be surprised if he cheated on her with other women. He only hugged the pretty young girls at meets. S needed to divorce that loser years ago. She drags him everywhere and complains she can't make friends. There's a Tori Amos line, You sign Prince of Darkness try Squire of Dimness, that describes him perfectly.
>>10917571This happened in my comm as well. I invited some girls I knew that dressed well and had similar taste, started arranging private get togethers, and now we're our own little tight knit subcommunity. It takes patience, but if you want a more selective group, your best bet is to be proactive. Reach out to well-dressed sane people in the comm, take the initiative and arrange private events, and keep expanding your circle until you don't need to interact with the main comm much. You can avoid a lot of drama this way.
>>10917571>Don't use the terminology "meet", just say you invited your friends over. Good idea.
>>10917468I'm sorry your comm member is giving you a hard time about this, it's a really cute idea and I wouldn't want some itas who don't match the theme ruining it either. I don't think you should apologise, just say it's a private gathering among friends with a theme. The whole point of comms is to meet people you like and you're allowed to hang out with the people you like, not everything has to be an 'official' meet. You don't have to invite everyone, especially for something as casual as movie night with friends which I assume you'd be hosting at a private place. If you really need an excuse just say you don't want a bunch of people you aren't close with coming to your house.
>>10917575Actually he did per the document that was uploaded to the comm fb group files. It said that he sexually assaulted a comm member and was banned as a result.
>>10917784Yes, but it's really not the type of thing I want to put on 4chan. Having interacted with them, J. emotionally abuses S, and the woman he got kicked out for assaulting is still around. I feel comfortable telling everyone J. is a fucking creep, but I'm still holding out hope for S. leaving him.
>>10917784Describing what happened as “sexual assault” is a reach you’re going to need a step ladder for.
>>10918226Assault/harassment, who fucking cares? He was a creep with one fucking outfit and two hats. He treats his wife like shit. He tried to cheat on her with someone in her comm. It's like I stepped in shit, said it was dog, and you're pointing out it was a cat turd. It's still shit.
>>10918233>treats his wife like shit I’ve known S for over 10+ years and I’ve never once seen as hell anything like that. They’re both weird and their relationship is strange, but for all we know they have an open relationship or arrangement, lots of couples do especially when they’ve been together since basically high school. I know both parties personally, and I don’t believe the allegations for a second. I’m pretty sure S and J just agreed to have him leave the comm so that they wouldn’t have to explain their weird relationship to everyone. Btw, there’s a huge difference between harassment and assault. You trying to say that it’s basically the same thing sums up the whole problem here. He makes a pass at someone who wasn’t into him and someone acts like that’s the same as forcibly assaulting her.
>>10910164A salmon dress as in the fish, or the color?
>>10917051People here will say this shit but act psychotic if people don't want to sit next to and buddy-buddy with the creep at the meet. Oh give me a break, there's two sides to every story. Will the mods be okay with "I don't want to sit or go to meets with this person because of X and they did Y" without crying about god knows what and taking their side immediately?
>>10918313Context matters, a boss making a pass at an intern is inappropriate and so is this. It's even worse if it's an open relationship desu, it's like she's pimping out this group of girls she has "administrative" powers over as a potential dating group for her man. Disgusting.
>>10918313No one wants some 40 year old creeper with one coord using the fucking comm to pick up young women. Doesn't matter if he's married or who he's married to. And absolutely he treats her like shit. I've been in the middle of them. I've scraped better things off my shoe.
I really wish my comm wasn’t 80% newbies and taobaolitas. Are American comms just like that? There were so many well-dressed people in Paris and Tokyo when I visited but that’s also not necessarily reflective of the greater community I guess. It feels like in most alternative hobbies Americans across the board are generally less willing to spend for high quality in comparison to European and Asian hobbyists.
>>10919654I don't think there are any quality American comms any more. If there are they are small groups of people that don't post online or recruit. Americans are too ugly and fat for this fashion and have horrible taste. 10 years ago the situation was better but things have deteriorated substantially.
>>10919658How common do you think those small groups are? I find it really hard to find other comm litas who hate fetishist (trannys in general) and appreciate the fashion without the overconsumption of taobao. I guess after they find their group they stop going to meets. I don't hate fatty-chans I just don't care to hear them complain all the time.
I was sick of the inactive local comms around me full of itas so I made my own group. Everyone who joins is vetted, only active lolitas and no men allowed. We have great meetups and everyone is well-dressed. Anything is possible if you put the work in!
>>10919688NTAYRT but I really like my comm and I live in America. I would say majority of our comm is well dressed and the "itas" are super new to lolita and have time to improve. Also luckily no fetishists or any similar issues.As far as finding a comm that "hate trannys", remember EGL is an alternative fashion that attracts people who live alternative lifestyles. I understand your concerns, but there's no public comm in America that's going to "hate trannys".
>>10919658What’s with the horrible generalizations on this thread? Most people overseas wouldn’t even know lolita existed if it weren’t for Americans popularizing the fashion.
>>10919688if you can't find them, they probably don't want you there.
>>10919704 Agreed, I don't think I could find a comm like that. I meant more finding people in the comm I could potentially get along with and not have to deal with pretending. I don't hate my comm either, I was hoping to find closer friends.>>10919735True lol. I'll stick to my group comm meets.
>>10910019Is this really old? Lor's cood actually is decent here??
>>10919762There's a lot of smaller groups out there without any fetishists, but they generally don't want people obsessed with trannies either. It's ideal when gender doesn't come up at all.
I just cannot get myself into my local comm. I’ve gone to a handful of meets over the past decade, and there is just never any substance. I truly don’t know how these people keep pretending to be friends. No one talks about ANYTHING. Like one of the early posters on this thread said, it’s truly only the clothes bringing these people together and almost every meet is filled with awkward silence… but then sure enough you get home and they’re all posting their coords online saying “I wore this to the meet and it was so lovely to see everyone again.” It doesn’t help that everyone dresses like shit. I’m over it. It just feels so weird and forced.
>>10920259So does that comm just sit around a table, drinking tea and not saying anything, then taking pictures and fucking off? Suddenly when they get home they know how to communicate. Are you sure your comm has not been infiltrated by aliens?
I am sick of the men in this fashion.
>>10920530Yup, Mana is the only one I trust. "But what about btssb's designer Isobe? And all of the male band members who dressed in lolita in the GLB? This proves that men have always been an essential part of the community ".Isobe doesn't wear lolita. Those band members probably don't anymore either. The international comm would be better off if we didn't have men in our local comms and not online in lolita spaces either.
>>10920535exactly. the real difference with designers/guys in bands and even mana is they are making money from it, it's not part of their fashion hobby. it's so annoying when people use those examples as if they're not part of the industry itself.
>>10920580Doesnt Isobe wear Aristo?
>>10920604Even if he does he's not wearing dresses and scrotemaxxing in local comms like the men we are talking about. Stop trying to "gotcha" as if the majority of lolitas aren't sick of you disgusting fags.
>>10920619Nta but not sure how it's gotcha to note that there are men capable of not being disgusting fucking freaks. If anything it makes their behaviour worse because they're clearly infected by terminal brainrot thinking they should be able to come creep on women in the comms. It's absolutely a men problem, AND it's exacerbated by the entitlement men feel to join a community that they don't actually give a shit about beyond what makes their dick hard. That's why designers and mana get a pass.
>>10920604nayrt but aristo isn't lolita so I don't know why it's even relevant other than they're both alternative fashions existing within the same country.He's not a man in a dress. And even if he was he's not trying to insert himself into a local comm afaik.
>>10920619Take your Xanax nonny it wasn’t a “gotcha”, I was simply asking because I thought for sure I’d seen pics floating around of him in aristo. you should talk to a therapist about that knee jerk though Jesus that’s an intense reaction kek>>10920638Aristo isn’t Lolita, but his sub brand AATP makes stuff similar to what he’s worn and is clearly heavily associated with Lolita. IMHO he gets a pass based solely on the fact that baby is one of the only brands worth buying from lately. In general, guys who aren’t wearing dresses are usually fine anyways. The PGL fiasco aside.
>>10920649And yet a quick search would answer your half-assed question. Isobe isn't relevant to the discussion of troons and literal men infecting a female fashion. No one is even discussing aristo but you.
>>10920535Geez are all you guys lesbians? The problem isn’t men enjoying lolita or ouji, The problem is poorly dressed fetishists that infiltrate the spaces. Like it or not but there is actually a small minority of men who dress better then your average female lolita, of course their slender and “genetically gifted”. Mana is a great designer and musician but he isn’t limited to lolita and has actually drifted away from EGL a little bit over the years, his outfits look a lot more gothic than lolita nowadays.
>>10920652okay handmaiden go away and jerk off your totally cute uwu femboy lolita friends now
>>10920652>are all you guys lesbians? Because we don't want men wearing our clothes and pretending to be women? Are you this retarded?
>>10920660this you anon?
>>10920604note the making money part. even if he was wearing dresses, there's a difference with being a designer or a performer doing it than someone in a comm which is for hobbyists.
>>10920661Ayrt and I fully believe that clothes don’t have genders. In history men have worn dresses and pink was even considered masculine for a period of time. It’s true that lolita was started by women and is considered empowering, but you cannot limit peoples self expression. Men in lolita almost never dress well and don’t do it for self expression which is where my problem lies, not necessarily what they identify as.
>>10920651Not sure why you’re such a raging cunt. You must be fun at events. >>10920652The problem is fetishists that’s true, but you’re kidding yourself if you don’t think the vast majority of fetishisists attempting to join Lolita are men. Women fetishizers and female/ftm age players have a huge advantage because they can blend in way better, but the vast majority of top tier creeps are men. I still personally don’t really care that much because it’s never really been an issue in my comm, but it’s still true for the community as a whole. >>10920672Not really? I mean designers could be very separate from the comm but look at western brands. All of them are pretty heavily involved in their local comm. you can be “making money” from the fashion AND be an active part of the community. It just happens that in the Lolita community pretty much every brand in the west is women owned. And yeah you could go on about how western brands aren’t real brands, but some have been around for 10+ years. hanueli is also very involved and often goes to meets and events stateside. Making money doesn’t mean shit because 99.9% of them aren’t even making enough to have it as a full time living, so it’s actually really part of the hobby.
>>10920672I mean as of late 2022 Isobe still hand finishes the jewelry Baby puts out and so many people in the community start their own mini brand or shop of some kind that it’s almost a right of passage at this point. Selling and “making money” isn’t some evil capitalistic takeover of the comm, it’s a very big part of the community. Pretty much every Lolita at some point buys and sells on lace market, often extensively. Most normies haven’t ever sold anything online, and have only ever shipped or touched Amazon packages. It contributes to the culture too, as most Lolita’s can hold a lengthy discussion on the woes of selling on LM, their handmade jewelry brand, or have pretty specific convos about shipping and customs rates. Buying, selling, and making money has been a pretty core feature of the comm for awhile now imho. I don’t think my comm has a single member who hasn’t at least tried to start a Lolita-inspired business of some kind, and there are tons of people who make a fuck ton reselling and scalping.
>>10920678>lolita was started by women It was popularized by a man kek and as sad as I am to admit it, he’s definitely a kinkster from the pics I’ve seen of him.
>>10920678as long as they're well-dressed and not harassing anyone who cares. there's hundreds of homely and poorly dressed women in lolita. there's female ageplayers and ftm sissies and most of them get away with it entirely because they have a vagina. not to mention bpdchans forming obsessive vendettas over whatever perceived slight. the real problem with the community is that most of the people in it have irredeemable personalities, and i think we all pretend creeps are more common than they really are so we don't have to talk about how fucking awful most of the biological women in the fashion are. having a vagina isn't a substitute for having a bearable personality.
>>10920690Truth, but I still think men are increasingly annoying and distracting. At its core alt fashion largely attracts people on the margins and pretty much always will. Some of those people on the margins are just going to be wallflowers or nerds, but the majority are on the margins for a reason, and it’s usually BPD or some other behavioral issues.
>>10920678You need to go back.
>>10920652I'm a lesbian because I don't like fetishists in my fashion, makes total sense.99% of men wearing lolita and trying to get into local comms (or are already in them) are predators or fetishists of some kind. I do not care as much about that good 1% as I do about the safety of the girls and women in this mostly female fashion hobby. The way mods are handling that 99% clearly isn't working. A few local comms aren't letting men in as a preventative measure. It would be great if we would all do the same.
>>10920679>>10920682YWNBAW
>>10920678>In history men have worn dresses and pink was even considered masculine for a period of timeIn the past few hundred years it was not normal or accepted outside of the theater and entertainment for grown men to wear women's fashion.
>>10920690>ftm sissiesthat's a thing? First time I heard about it.> i think we all pretend creeps are more common than they reallyNah, I think most local comms that are not small have at least one male fetishist in them. Mine does and I've spoken to two neigboring comms and they both do as well. >>10920696Comms aren't great at kicking out creeps. But they're pretty good at keeping/kicking out mentally ill women who can't even meet the bare minimum standard of acceptable behavior. All of the unhinged lolitas I've known about didn't have/attend a local comm. If I had 1$ for every woman I have seen online complain about being kicked out of their local comm "unfairly" I could buy a PS5.
>>10920740Depends on your culture but ayrt is being purposely obtuse. We all know what it is we’re talking about. It’s not just men in dresses.>>10920742In my experience comms usually aren’t great at kicking anyone out. Some of the behavior I’ve seen them let slide with a warning is insane, and most mods are pushovers. They look for any excuse to make whatever the problem is “not a comm issue”. We’ve kept not only creeps, but unhinged women for YEARS. And when a woman is found out as an age player on OF, they are never removed and it’s part of their “private life”. Not so much for men.
>>10920761>most mods are pushoverseh my local comm mods would have no issue kicking a woman out for bad behavior. But when it comes to kicking out men who wear lolita they are very concerned about how this could be interpreted by others. This concern isn't baseless either. I've seen a group accuse someone of transphobia and sexism when she was giving a man (who said he wasn't trans) concrit. The man himself was happy with the concrit. A regular comm member wouldn't be affected too much if people try to cancel them. I'm happy to be corrected though if you have some examples. A mod can easily lose their position if other people decide the mod isn't representative of the norms and values of most comm members.
>>10920742>ftm sissiesnot sure if same thing but there is a huge, huge amount of ftms who make it "a thing" that they still look/act/dress womanly despite being "male". among these people are many who are new (less than 2 years) to medical transition, people who purposefully take less than a full dose of hormones and purposefully don't get surgeries, and people who are using their "ftm" status to sell porn of themselves or otherwise get into some niche (men in lolita is a niche).
>>10920696my com has some men, but they're well-dressed and have years of active participation without any problems. there have been creepy males, but rare, and they won't come to RSVP-only or prepaid events. fetishists also don't come to events with dress codes since they only own taobao. we have plenty of psycho women, though. >>10920772ayrt, referring to ftms on hormones that get off on wearing a dress with a beard. they dress and act the same as regular sissies.
>>10920772ayrt, and no that's not the same thing. They're trying to be femboys or go for a very androgynous look.>>10920777you're not the anon who >>10920772 replied to, that was me.>fetishists also don't come to events with dress codes since they only own taobaothe idea that male fetishists don't buy brand is really ignorant. If they have the money for it and they fit into it (or get it altered) they'll buy brand if they like that brand's aesthetic. Some well known creeps wear AP. There was a guy in my comm who wore btssb. Mostly full shirred pieces. He told me that wearing cute women's clothes turned him on. He thought I would be fine with it since we and some other lolita had been hanging out for a few years. He pretended to be a trans woman in our comm, I used to believe him when he pretended to be a trans woman.Don't underestimate how much these guys are willing to spend to on their fetish if they have the income to buy brand. You should not assume that having brand means they're not fetishists. There are people who think "he has brand and his outfits aren't terrible, so he's serious about it and in it for the right reasons". It's simply not true.
>>10920678>n history men have worn dresses and pink was even considered masculine for a period of time.I hate this fucking argument. Pink was only considered masculine in countries where red was also, and pink was considered a light red. Many countries have historically had red and pink as feminine colors, Japan for instance. So your argument is stupid and circumstantial.
>>10920782I mean you say that like well known female fetishists don’t also build out a brand inventory and blend in. It wasn’t until a girl in my comms OF was unearthed that people realized she was a huge ageplayer. Tbh if I can’t tell you’re a fetishizer I really don’t care why you wear the fashion. I don’t invite anyone into my house, and I don’t really get super close to anyone in the comm anyways. It seems like a lot of effort to be sitting there trying to screen everyone and be hyper vigilant about the possibility that someone in your comm uses their used OTKs to wank. Some of y’all are honestly paranoid af, and you can see that whenever a vaguely masculine girl is posted on here and a few gulls always screech that it’s a man. Just seems like a lot of effort to put in just to try and monitor someone else’s sexual interests. Sissies come and sissies go. I’m not spending any excess time or energy on them and you shouldn’t either. Make friends, touch grass, and ignore anyone you don’t vibe with or that weirds you out .
>>10920619He absolutely wears dresses you idiot
>>10920901Really? I've never seen it. Can you prove that, idiot?
>>10920897>I mean you say that like well known female fetishists don’t also build out a brand inventoryNo, I don't say it like that. You made a baseless assumption. That just strengthens my point. If female fetishists do that, why wouldn't male fetishists. And age play is disgusting imo, if I found out a fellow comm member was into that I'd keep my distance if she/he wasn't kicked out for it.Most people don't even hide their fetish very well, it eventually seeps through or they tell on themselves accidentally. That guy I mentioned who wore btssb is more of an exception because he kept up the pretense for a few years at least. You would have never noticed something wasn't right just by looking at how he interacted with lolitas. I wish I had been one of those lolitas who just kept their distance from men/amabs claiming to be trans women in the comm because of their sex. But if I don't notice they're male then they're probably not a problem, I haven't heard about a lot problems with passing trans women in lolita comms. Most of the creeps are males that look like a man in a dress. So I don't care about the innocent 1%. I am now automatically suspicious of any man in a dress in a lolita comm.What you need to understand is that a lot of people want to make close friendships in their local comm and not just casual surface level friendships. I'm pretty fucking sure that if you were interested in making close friendships within your local comm you would care if someone was or wasn't into lolita for fetish/sexual reasons, because you end up spending a lot of time with your lolita friends outside of local comm events. That is a lot of time and effort to spend on someone who turns out to be predatory/disgusting.
>>10920901She said he doesn't wear dresses in local comms. A bit of reading comprehension goes a long way. Idiot.
>>10920902he cant prove it because he doesnt wear them. even btssbs designer of all people can distinguish between male and female. these nasty agps will scramble to make up lies to get women to turn against women. fuck them all.
>>10920903Oooh hoo hoo a baseless point! Look at you go nonny! In all seriousness, you have got to be autistic or something. It’s not that serious and no one off this dead ass board cares.
>>10920909Tbh it’s more likely that someone is uninformed but I also have vague memories that he at one point did wear a dress. But there’s a huge difference between having worn a dress, and continually wearing by a dress and making everyone else uncomfortable with how bad you look in it. That’s a pretty bad look overall though desu, btssb designer or not.
>>10920897This is the move. I honestly think spending all your time preoccupied with whether or not everyone around you is a secret tranny boogeyman is kind of a sad way to engage with the hobby. I kind of wonder how many of these "the mods won't ban the sissy!" stories are about some guy who keeps to himself, or even about some girl who is just ugly. I know for a fact several girls in my com who have been accused of being men are natural women. A lot of people on this board could probably benefit from an abilify prescription.
>>10920937nta. honestly if everyone only gathers because of clothes and events and not because of other shared interests the bonds you make are pretty shallow anyways since you end up not even having shared values. The only shared activity in lolita is wearing the clothes, talking about the clothes, and taking pics of yourselves in the clothes- of course people are gonna gossip and be shitty, or end up being fetishists either way if your only requirement is wearing the clothes. Maybe it's just because I've never personally been in a comm but I've never seen the point in going to a community outside of wanting concrit or advice or to help others look better. Outside of that, not my problem. I can drink tea and go for picnics on my own, and I especially don't want to be lumped in with the horrific behavior of others that are dressed "like me" to normies.
>>10920943>Never been in a comm >Makes broad generalizations about socializing in the fashion Kek that’s cgl for you. Good on you for at least admitting you don’t know what you’re talking about tho.It’s only shallow if your love of the fashion is shallow. People who can hold in depth conversations about relatively obscure aspects of the fashion become friends pretty quick, and even just regular conversations about new releases, the future of the fashion and shaming uggo releases are really fun and the gaging topics. I knew two girls once who made scrapbooks together of brand releases. It was sooo cute! There’s also a lot of crossover hobbies like knitting, sewing, scrapbooks, crafting etc. It comes as no surprise that the biggest whiners about socializing in the fashion are on 4chan talking about how they’ve never been in a comm or out any real effort into it. IRL most comms are pretty chill and have tons of shared interests beyond just the fashion, though that alone is enough to have casual friendships for sure.
>>10920950Can confirm, I've made lots of friends through the fashion. A lot of us met through liking the same substyles and brands, but then found out we also enjoy similar music, media, and other hobbies. Lolita is a social hobby. I guess you could do it solo, but dressing up at home and never sharing it seems boring and sad. For a lot of people the social aspect is half the appeal. And like any other social hobby, it works as a starting point for forming friendships with other people on the hobby. Sure, you won't share values with everyone you meet, but you're bound to find at least a few people with other shared hobbies to bond with.
>>10920957sorry i forgot the entire world revolves around you and all of your experiences are universal. one example of a sissy who clearly wasn't keeping to himself and isn't what we're talking about here isn't a gotcha.
>>10920960I don’t think you know what a sissy is
you can report my posts but dumbasses like you doubting stories is the exact reason why we have sissies and pedos in comms
>>10920910Don't pretend that if you wanted friendships with people from your comm you would not care if they used lolita for fetish purposes.
>>10920968Keep exposing them anon. These fags need to be named and shamed. Jannies (they do it for free) will delete posts naming anyone, but you should post on the farms too.
>>10920974You're literally talking to a guy that wears women's clothes, his whole life is playing pretend.
>>10920963as far as i know a sissy is someone who gets off on either the humiliation or discomfort of others that results from being a man in a dress. a man wearing the clothes because he likes them is different. sissies don't usually keep to themselves, they don't usually put much effort into their outfits, and they usually go for ageplay taobao garbage designs. i agree people like the one anon mentioned who are clearly there to cause problems need to be banned, but we're talking about men (and ugly women who are accused of being men) that dress and act normally enough that you only notice them if you're obsessively transvestigating everyone you meet. i think troonfoiling and raging about men who haven't actually caused any problems just makes it harder for mods to take real predators seriously. you can't spam your mods with false flag reports and then get angry when they don't immediately take the real ones on faith. most mods aren't comfortable banning someone based on anonymous gossip from the farms. if someone confesses to being a fetishist to you or actually acts creepy, that's substantiated proof. take that to the mods instead of bitching about it on 4chan. otherwise it'll just be written off as vendetta.
>>10921011>take that to the mods instead of bitching about it on 4chan.As if multiple people haven’t done exactly that. People still “bitch” about it because the mods have been contacted several times with proof and nothing is ever done about it. God forbid people discuss comms in the dedicated thread for it though.
>>10921011I think the discomfort of others is just like the icing on the cake for sissies. What they really get off on is being degraded by being feminized (often into some hyper feminine ideal in their eyes). Sissyfication is a form of forced feminization kink. It's not the same as a cross dressing kink though, that's different but there is some overlap in how it presents.Sissies need an audience to feel humiliated. That's why they are drawn to lolita communities, it's killing two birds with one stone. Firstly they have a valid excuse to wear frilly women's clothes outside in public, secondly the community gives them an audience. According to some stuff I've read they often wear women's lingerie, butt plug and/or a cock cage under their clothes when they are outside and socializing. They feel more humiliated that way. Sissies are almost always heterosexual men as well, so the risk is not only in them engaging in their fetish with non consenting people they also typically start to display predatory behavior towards some of the comm members at some point. Usually the youngest and most insecure members. At the same time a lot of them are looking for a female dom willing to play with them, but since women into this sort of thing are quite rare sissies often make do with male doms. They might try to contact you via DM on your social media to proposition you to do things with them. Age players tend to do that too.The sissy kink is inherently sexist and inherently violates consent because they want to engage in their fetish in a public space.A typical sissy thing to do in lolita comms is when they're looking for someone in their local comm to function as a mentor to them but they don't want to do any of the work and the research themselves, they want their mentor to pick every single outfit item for them. They like makeovers and transformations. They're also really into stereotypical girly stuff like sleepovers and might try to arrange one at some point.
>>10921011>a man wearing women's clothes because he likes them is different>>10921021>sissies are almost always heterosexual menStop making shit up. You have to be the final boss of mental illness to believe this absolute nonsense. Literally no one else thinks like this besides men in women's clothes and their handmaidens.
>>10921011Judging by your reply I can tell you hate women, since it's a foreign concept to you that women are allowed to have their own spaces. You're a pick me that sides with larping men over women. The worst type of bitch. I sincerely hope you don't mod any comms, because you should be ashamed of yourself.
>>10921011I'm sure you like living in la-la land where everyone that midly criticizes troons and is suspicious of men is some ebil terf boogeyman from some flavor of farming forum but I'll give you a (You). One day I hope many anons here get the reality check they need to stop being so naive when it comes to strangers.>you can't spam your mods with false flag reports and then get angry when they don't immediately take the real ones on faith. most mods aren't comfortable banning someone based on anonymous gossip from the farms.this literally doesn't apply to cases where the mods have proof and literally choose to take the bestest faith imaginable to the point of absurdity. Bet many of those reports aren't even false flags, and I'm not willing to believe mods at face value or give them good faith like they do. These mods mainly go off of vibes anyway. You tell them hey, there's this guy in a comm who did several ageplay shoots and he's seen wearing the same stool and he's posted pictures on sissy fetish forums, and then you get slapped with a "f-false flag! he seems to compose himself at comms! don't misgender him!" and I'm not inclined to believe that's a fucking false flag psy op.So tldr this argument doesn't work when moderators are willingly ignoring proof on several occasions on different comms, so sorry if I'm not willing to believe them when they say the majority of these reports are false or exaggerated. So focused on deterring alleged hordes and hordes of bad actors and seething hags in their comms that they forget to comb through the proof and protect the members. Trust has been broken on both sides.
>>10921015was your "proof" a farms thread?
>>10921056cry about it. no one wants to be around tranny-obsessed schizochans. >>10921070i don't think you're a terf boogeyman, because i don't think you're even feminists. one look at the ita thread tells me that much. you cry troon at obvious biological women every single day, and then use the exact same AZ example-- again, not what any of us were even talking about-- to justify it. one man in the worst com in the country is not an epidemic. you just want to cover for your own misogyny by pretending everyone you hate is a man.
>>10921073This. Fetishists and sissies are an occupational hazard of being a Lolita. You can be aware of that and cautious towards suspected pervs without the level of obsession we see on here, and without shitting on bio women with big noses or broad shoulders. Im not going to make my every waking moment in this fashion focused on sissies and perverts.
>>10921073>i don't think you're a terf boogeyman>one look at the ita thread tells me that muchI'm not a transvestigation schizo and I don't like them either. My experiences stem from having to interact with predatory ass individuals in person and online and trans spaces that exclusively discuss lolita in sexualized contexts. I don't take half of these posts seriously because one look in those hidey holes and those people immediately show their asses as individuals not to be trusted, but apparently that's being obsessed even when people in their own communities say it like it is. Oh, I get it. Nobody's covering for shit.>not what any of us were even talking about-- to justify it.It'll keep getting mentioned because some posters abhor losing brownie points for condemning that man for reasons I think we already know. But yeah that comm is infinitely a lost cause at this point I can't even be mad or too upset that people are getting tired that it keeps getting brought upIf you're a false flagger you're a fucking moron and doing more damage in the long run than you think, but I don't know the exact way to mend all the ways trust has been broken over the years. But If you as a mod get sent some photos or some links, maybe don't ignore it? I'm not saying don't run some forensics on it to see if it's fake or not, just maybe more than a passing judgemental look because you're scared the accuser is a bad actor. If a minor in the comm tells you that they're uncomfortable, also listen.
>>10921071 it wasn’t, but you can continue being a handmaiden pedo sympathizer instead of believing women.
>>10920950>>10920958Ayrt and sounds like both of you found relationships BEYOND the clothes which was my point, meaning you agree. If there's crossover and you can find other interests, there's a friendship there. If I disagree on everything else other than someone's taste and interest in the fashion but still hang out with them for that one thing, of course we won't get along well. I'm sure there are a couple of people in your comms you still feel that way about.
>>10921055>Stop making shit upThey are overwhelmingly straight men. It's so well known that the first search result mentions it.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminization_(activity)They'll sometimes have sex with their male dom but that does not mean they're sexually attracted to men. They're into the humiliation of being fucked by a man.
>>10921073>one man in the worst com in the country is not an epidemicnayrt but a lot of comms have one or more of these sissies/predators/fetishists. It is not a rare phenomenon.But I also don't like how some people on cgl will claim any ugly bio woman is a man. It's gotten so ridiculous that I can only think they are trolling.They don't even need to call women men, the actual men are pretty consistently itas and provide the ita thread with material.>>10921080nayrt, the simple solution would be to not befriend any man in your comm, and to report it when you see some boundary crossing behavior. That's all you can do, most mods these days aren't even going to kick a man out if there's proof he's into the fashion for sexual/fetish reasons. They'll just say "well, we haven't had any problems with him yet" and that's if they even believe you in the first place. So you better have proof.
>>10921080AYRT you get it. i never said anyone should just ignore obvious fetishists causing problems on purpose, i just think the way most gulls seem to obsessively scrutinise everyone they meet to the point of crying male whenever an actual woman just has vaguely masculine features is obnoxious and unhealthy. you can't enjoy a hobby if you spend allof your time preoccupied with the sissy boogeyman. all that paranoia will give you high blood pressure.
>>10920806My argument isn’t circumstantial, my point is that the way society aspects men to dress and what colors to wear changes throughout the decades and shouldn’t be a factor when deciding if they can join a *alternative* fashion or not. I know it’s crazy to realize for heavens gatekeepers like you but lolita is still an alternative fashion and you will see individuals who look outside the norm. Obviously we should still have quality control but if a guy wants to make a lolita coord (and it looks like shit or his a fetishist) he should just say it’s lolita inspired and stop messing up our comms. Do keep in mind I’ve been a lone lolita since day 1 so I don’t have experience like some of you guys do.
>>10921117that is a lame argument and you know it. There have been plenty of closeted gay men and closeted lesbians who were married to the opposite sex, had sex with their spouse and had children. Who you have sex with doesn't determine your sexual orientation. It's who you're sexually attracted to that determines sexual orientation. It's very possible to have sex with someone you're not attracted to.If the sissies were actually attracted to the guy it wouldn't be as humiliating as it is. They get off on humiliation.If sissies aren't attracted to women (as you claim) then why have so many of them creeped on lolitas in local comms? These guys are attracted to women whether you believe it or not.
>>10921093I’ve been in 5 comms in the last 4 years and only seen one. I’m not saying it’s a non issue but it’s far from common, and even more rare for the person in question to actually be disruptive to the regular operations of the comm. People on here are acting like this is some kind of existential threat to the comm when in reality it’s a handful of pathetic old men who occasionally sniff around every few months to see if they’re going to get away with pushing the envelope. It’s really not a big deal and never has been.
>>10921121>alternative fashion may attract/include people who look alternative You don’t say? It’s almost as if counter culture communities are a natural attraction for people who feel excluded from normie beauty standards. Not everyone in Lolita needs to be conventionally attractive, and not being attractive isn’t the same as being a man. The sissy boogeyman can be both.
>>10921137 This is what sissy dedenders don't understand.Every experience I've had with a sissy involved him turning to inexperienced girls who were aware that things were 'off' but were still young and inexperienced enough to not know what felt so off about it.Even when blatant discomfort was expressed, they'd just pretend to be ignorant of what was wrong and deny any wrongdoing repeatedly.The combination of discomfort from the unwilling younger lolitas and the humiliation at reactions of shock, disgust, and anger is what they're after, specifically from women who aren't willing.
>>10921140It gets exhausting to see people screaming "man!!!" at normal women.See Lor.
>>10921140Your exactly right, and some people on this thread can’t understand that.
>>10921056> women are allowed to have their own spaces.Lolita fashion has never been advertised as a women “woke safe space” or a place to discuss sexual harassment like your comments are pointing to. This would make sense if lolita fashion was entirely based on women’s rights and protests but this is a fashion, not a political group. How is this person “a sissy befriender comm mod” if they literally say you should have proof so you can report them? They want to make sure the reports are genuine so the mods can ban the right people. Just because someone is biologically male doesn’t mean they are bad people or in Japanese fashion for fetish purposes, this is starting to sound like woke feminist BS.
>>10921152You are as retarded as the anon you replied to.
>>10916642As a former mod, my opinion after dealing with and mediating alongside other mods is this: fuck that noise, this isn't a democracy. Ban someone for being weird and ruining the vibes. I can almost promise you that no one will complain. Don't make a big public spectacle about it, if the complaints are credible (as in, you either witnessed the "testing of boundaries" yourselves or have screenshots/reliable witnesses bring it up) then just ban them. No one of import is gonna go to bat for some creepy sissy who cries because they got banned. If you do get some weird tumblrina trying to argue that person's case to you, give THEM the "we'll investigate this situation and get back to you" line and then come back later to say "we've determined the complaints against this individual are credible and will continue to prioritize the safety of our community members, thank you for understanding". Ban them too if they raise a stink, who cares.Modding these comms is already a thankless and tedious thing to do, and the majority of members are probably fine and normal enough to not make multiple people uncomfortable. There is absolutely no need to treat this as a democracy or a courtroom when it comes to someone shitting up the group.
>>10921152I'll take "I don't know the history of the fashion" for 500.>>10921148I agree with this but ALSO don't think it's that common. I think anons have a point about it being an occupational hazard or an issue that unfairly targets "homely" women, but I've also been a target when I was younger even outside of a comm, albeit not from a sissy but a ddlg dude who I innocently thought just really likes lolita and talking about it.I'm not even against men being in a space they know and respect won't be catered to them or their preferences, but it's really, REALLY hard to find dudes who are okay with that when it's the default at this point.
>>10921073Mandrea isn't part of AZ comm...
>>10921160I've moderated similar niche communities and have absolutely banned people for overstepping boundaries, making multiple people uncomfortable, or straight up just being too much of a nuisance to ignore. Not ruling with an iron fist or whatever but if you both privately and publicly tell someone to cut it out and they don't, well they had it coming. It's a case by case basis but I think people are too afraid of exclusion. Some people should be excluded if they can't play nice.
>>10921139>This is my experience so it must be yours too, obviously you're overreacting.My comm has always had at least one. Both of my neighbouring comms have at least one currently as well. Sometimes these guys are very involved in the comm and attending as many meets as they can. None of them act normal/natural and it's always different from how the lolitas in the comm treat each other. Some of them are looking for anyone in the comm to hang out with them outside of official comm meets. They can be quite pushy when they're doing that, not letting friendships develop organically.If you're more than just polite to them and don't keep them at a distance (I have a outgoing bubbly personality for example) they might assume you want to be friends. But I'm like that to everyone and none of the lolitas made that assumption. We've had actual big problems with one of them some years back, this sissy was contacting lolitas in the comm and pressuring them in an attempt to do "things" with him. I won't get into detail but it was sexual, and none of those girls were interested. This was eventually dealt with by the mods because even they cannot ignore obvious harassment. And the girls had all of those messages as proof so it wasn't difficult. I've bumped into lolitas from neighboring comms online who were sick and tired of seeing these guys at their meets. Comm to the east of mine had a sock fetishist.>>10921148>>10921161100%.>>10921152NayrtIt's women's fashion. Not men's fashion. Lolita spaces are predominantly female because they are the target demographic for lolita fashion. Men are inserting themselves into a predominantly female space so they should behave themselves and meet the bare minimum of normal acceptable behavior. Often they can't even manage that.>>10921160This is how mods should be, many are not. Too concerned about how it would look if they banned a man for ruining vibes and making people uncomfortable.
>>10921160the sac comm did this and ended up having a massive schism over it.
>>10921164Mods need to stop giving a fuck about being seen as bitchy or vindictive by people who weren't respecting the rules anyways. Women are constantly told to play nice and not set hard boundaries and that shit needs to stop. Being a mod means you have the responsibility to MODERATE and protect the group and it's values. Mods not wanting to take the kiddie gloves off is how u get an untenable group full of hateful weirdos or perverts. This applies to all spaces, not just lolita. 4chan and cgl might be a containment space for these type of people, but shit runs pretty deep into all of our communities too. It is our responsibility to police and represent the space we want to see.
>>10922092>kiddie gloveskid gloves are made of kid goats, not human kids, anon
>>10922093Are you ESL? it's an idiom, not literal.
>>10921235Around what year? I got filtered by S a long time ago and never looked back, not worth going to see the people I liked while fending off the drama from a choice and ever loud few.
>>10922108you got the idiom wrong you doof.
>>10922159 I'm >>10922092 and that wasn't meI'd rather make gloves from children than goats thank you
i’ve never been in a comm, how’s the one in DC if anyone knows?
