>If <insert game here> doesn't allow me to kill every single NPC in the game (including children) and still allow me to complete the main quest, then it's not a CRPG!
>salty BG3 fan gets assblasted and starts a whole new thread to argue against a strawman argumentSad. Many such cases.
is this one of those threads that gets started because some dude's post made OP bootybothered to the point that they want to yell to everyone about it?
>>3481585Even if you are a faggot, I never understood that obsession with killing NPCs.
>>3481608Its fun, thats why
Kingdom Come Deliverance.for an ultra-realistic RPG there sure are plenty of characters who are death proof
>>3481608It's the curse of first-person/'realistic' RPGs.Some RPGs get away with this by taking away your weapon/designing non-aggro areas like cities, which IMO is the best way to deal with it. (Age of Decadence, Mass Effect come to mind). But when the game allows you to pull out your weapon anywhere you want, because they're designing an immersive first person experience, then it's absolutely fucking retarded to forbid you from killing someone.
>>3481608https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzKo1JPNf4s
>>3481786That's because it's linear as fuck and barely a RPG when it comes to story choices and progression
>>3481998>barely a RPG when it comes to story choices and progressionAnd not at all when it comes to combat.
>>3481589Idk, sounds like a salty NV fan malding over Yes Man. Anyway, yes, unkillable NPCs are fine, but not when they obviously should be killable, like a robot who is a traitor to your boss to whom you RP loyalty.
>>3482034But yes man IS actually killable, if you kill Yes Man with an energy weapon crit so he becomes an ash/goo pile, which means he wont respawn, so that means that the "unkillable npcs" is not an issue in NV
>>3481786The realism was just a marketing gimmick, same with le accuracy
>>3482324Is there any good games that dont have death proof chars?
>>3482599Morrowind.
>>3481585I legit don't get why killing fictional kids is such a taboo >yeah you can nuke the city and kill the elderly but not le childrerinoss!
>>3482625Dont forget that some even have the option to hurt or kill dogs, it just doesnt make sense. Like, in fallout 3 you can turn a kid into a slave but you cant blast them with bullets.
>>3481585I'll mod Fallout to take out all of the shits at Little Lamplight and there's nothing you can do about it
>>3482673>I'll mod Fallout to take out all of the shits at Little Lamplight and there's nothing you can do about itSo you're making a European port?
>>3481589That's the closest example I've seen to this being possible. Literally the only NPC that can't die is Withers.
>>3482673Why not a mod that lets you turn every kid into a slave? That sounds more fun
>>3481998Why make a rpg with barely any story choices
>>3481585Yes. Your point being...?
>>3481585You joke but look at what happened with starfield if you try and shoot a town up just to see what happens. 70% of the NPCs cannot be killed. The grognards were correct all along.
>>3481786Kingdom Cum Delivery
>>3481608Playing as an edgelord faggot is simply more fun and less self serious than plying as some goody two shoes much good epic hero
>>3481608It's like Van Halen's brown M&M clause. They don't actually care about the M&M's, it's about the attention to detail.
>>3481608Name one RPG without a single hateable character
>>3485801Kek
>>3487144yeah that's the way I feel about iton the other hand I really wouldn't mind if they level a handful unkillable if they can't think of a way around it even if they don't want to write some elaborate excuse like with Yes Man in New Vegas. I like an open design but you don't have to push it to the point where you're just making needless work for yourself. Just don't let it go Bethesda tier where half the NPCs are immortal
>>3489721*level = left
>>3481585I'm fine with unkillable NPCs. A minority of people ever kill them, but working around those possibilities can increase the amount of work a quest will require. Of course unkillable NPCs should be kept to a minimum.Like people believe voice acting limits development, I believe unkillable NPCs can do the same. Don't bother if it's too much work.
>>3481589Yep.
>>3489728What if they're unkillable when you try to kill them with normal ways, but can be killed through less orthodox means?
>>3481585nah, i understand why devs don't let you kill children due to the way ratings workbut you are right, rpgs should let us kill everyone
>>3481786that's because it sucks complete dicks and is only popular because of the lead dev having slapfights on twitter
>>3482599new vegasmorrowinduhhhhwow i can't think of any
>>3494293You can nuke entire areas and kill old people and torture people and etc., but killing children is going too far?
>>3494666yeah, that's just how rating systems that boomers made worknot game devs fault
>>3494695How long until companies realize that preventing the player from hurting children while also allowing them to commit lots of evil shit is retarded?
>>3482599It's really hard to design a good story where everybody can die.>>3494296Nope, and nope.
>>3481608for the simple reason that the devs account for the player's actions. making NPCs immortal and unresponsive to attacks is limiting to player agency and stifling to roleplayability.
>>3495261Fire emblem does a good job at it
>>3497768Agreed
>>3495261>It's really hard to design a good story where everybody can die.Take the Hamlet pill.
>>3481585This but unironically.
>>3482625because the ESRB is a thing that exists
>If the game doesn't allow me to roleplay my psychopath fantasies, then its not a CRPG
>>3481585That’s a good argument. I started playing Age of Decadence because it’s presented a “true RPG”, played for couple of hours, but then dropped because most NPCs are simply non-clickable. WTF? They are just dolls, not NPCs.So I remembered that Fallout is praised for having realistic NPCs and finished it for the first time.
>>3489728>>3495261Games are about making interesting decisions. While I can't currently think of an example, I absolutely believe you can have a game with no gameplay which is respected as a great game, if it were to present the player with many nongameplay choices and simulate the consequences to a degree that makes it interesting. If the player wants destruction you don't need to give them a story, just destruction. Being able to do it is enough. Personally I think Drakengard would be even better if you could kill Furiae in chapter 1 and get sent straight to a hopeless level full of randomly spawning enemies until you die or get bored. Morrowind just let you know the game was broken and left it at that.
>>3482599Fallout, Fallout 2... It was more commonplace in good old RPGs but there are a few rare newer productions.Underrail is one example of the latter. It has two unkillable characters. Not because of unreasonable plot armor but because they are some kind of immortal alien god fuckers masquerading as humans.The cost of that freedom is that you can easily break progression and softlock yourself. Unlike Bethesda's early implementation of essential NPCs in Morrowind, this game doesn't bother warning you that you fucked up.
