Is Judo the best single martial art in terms of self defense?When it comes to street fights, almost everyone can agree that being on the ground is bad considering the possibility of things like glass being on the ground and someone else coming up and kicking you in the head. Therefore wouldn't the best martial art for street fights be one where the whole goal is to slam your opponent into the ground without falling yourself? Especially because while a person would expect punches and kicks from their opponent, something like a hip throw would likely catch them by surprise
>>197362>Hang on let me just establish gri->*Gets punched in the face*>Hey stahhp! >*Gets headbutted*>Owwww!>Finally, I have my collar and sleeve grip>*Gets punched again*>Attempts throw but it doesn't work because he hasn't mastered judo every day for 20 years>*Gets kicked in the head*Judo takes years to become even slightly proficient at, strikes change the whole game and someone can punch you in the head 3 times before you even get one gripBoxing is the best martial art for self defence, as well as being heavier and stronger than your opponentMost top judo players even say "we don't care about self defence bro this is for fun and socialising activity" I've seen it myself
>>197380Tl;dr, sounds retarded though https://youtu.be/OW1ji0BwpzQ?feature=shared
>>197383That dude sounds like he's about to ejaculate the whole time
>>197383Judo ostrich cope
>>197407That guy is a pencil necked dweeb with braces and sounds like some sort of mmo nerd parody. It's funny he thinks he's an authority on fighting lmfao
>>197407>>197413I enjoy his channel because it lets me see interesting fights I probably wouldn’t be able to find on my own, but I have to watch them on mute because I can’t stand listening to him talk.>>197411How is it a cope? The boxer got his ass choked out. The “oh I’d just punch you in the face grapple no work on me” line is a cope.
>>197383The idea that even average boxers have lighting fast hands and can knock you out instantly if you get close it's a 80s myth?
>>197417>I have to watch them on mutelol I do this tooI try not to hate on the guy because he's not doing anything /wrong/ but he has really bad amateurish takes for someone with a channel breaking down fights like even in this one hEs CrOsSiNg HiS fEeT!!!you can do that, there's nothing wrong with doing that. The "ankle lock" is a bullshit white belt pain compliance trick that some guy once upon a time had his hooks too low and tapped out then told everyone it's a hard and fast rule to never do that
>>197429Superheavyweight yes
>>197380>the best martial art for self defense is the one who forgots about half of your bodyit's not bad but you're overestimating it.
>>197448To be real there's a lot of times for example in jeans where knees and kicks aren't nearly that effective
>>197362MMA is better.
>>197448There's all these "zomg kickboxer beat boxer!!" But the opposite has also happened. Shannon Briggs kfto a kickboxer using only his hands. can really focus on developing fast and powerful punches when you only focus on your handsI'll put my money on a boxer with 1 year experience over a grappler. Especially on the street
>>197479>boxer with 1 year experience over a grapplerDepends on skill/experience level.If the grappler was also doing grappling for a year then I agree.The problem with grappling is that it has very high skill floor (i.e a lot of skill is needed to utilize it effectively)However I'd also argue that given sufficient time, grappling becomes more effective than striking at the same experience levelNot sure if my ramblings make any sense, so please refer to the picture, hopefully that's better
>>197362It’s the best grappling style for self defense.> stands upright> goal is to take down the opening without getting down too> if on the ground, work fast to improve positing and go for a hold or a submission Ad some boxing to enter the clinch safely and you have a solid system
>>197479>I’ll put my money on the bet that consistently loses when testedlol, has modern ufc where everyone knows how to both strike and grapple made everyone forget about what mma was like 20 years again?
>>197488UFC isn't canon on /xs/.
>>197362All the legit styles are pretty good on their own even. It just depends on the situation
>>197488UFC was full of ex professional athletes. I'm talking mr hobbyist.
>>197530>nuh uh doesnt count because it doesn’t align with my worldviewYour opinion is based on fee fees not evidenceThere’s also a lot of mma outside of the ufc btw
>>197362the single most important factor to winning an actual fight is cardio since 99% of people are going to be completely gassed after 30 seconds. if you can keep going for longer than that you've won regardless of style
>>197362Muay Thai.I never really did Muay Thai specifically but after training in a whole bunch of different martial arts for many years I find that front kicks, clinches, knees and foot sweeps just end up being the safest and most effective techniques to pull off when you don't have padded mats and a ref to pause the first.Round kicks don't control a fight, punches can break hands, elbows are hard to get the right distance for and grips are unreliable because clothing changes.
>>197362No, that's boxing.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o594yiPatDMSorry for the cancer music, but I couldn't find the original.
Karate is bestI don't mean gay japanese or American karate, I mean the rough and tumble Okinawan kind
Kudo/boxing for kiting and cheap shots vs retards + greco and being huge for actually decent opponents.
It's funny how /xs/ trashes on judo despite the fact that it's one of the core elements of many if not most military H2H like Defendu, Krav Maga, Systema, etc. Even in WW2, US and British trainers taught judo ad part of the self-defense curriculum.There is documented evidence for decades on how judo has constantly pitted itself and has a very respectable track record. The problem is that after 1945, the primary focus is the sport aspect rather than the martial application.In my not-so-humble opinion, no martial art is complete. At the very LEAST, one should be able to throw murderous cut kicks to an opponent's thigh like a Nak Muay/Dutch Kickboxer/Kyokushin karateka, hip toss like a Judoka or Sambist, double underhook that any Greco-Roman wrestler can, know how to guard their chin and punch like a trained boxer, defend while on their back like a Jiu-Jitiero.
>>198496MMA is complete
>>198509Not him but MMA is competitional ruleset, not a martial art (at least not yet)
>>198511MMA is not a ruleset. The rules depend on the promotion, of which there are many. It's a martial art.
>>198509>>198511>>198512MMA lacks weapons like knives and sticks. It's a martial sport and a philosophy that pre-dated UFC 1and it finally popularized thanks to both the Japanese experimentation in 1986 with Shooto and the UFC in 1993. There was even a proto-MMA tournament in 1974 called the World Series of Martial Arts where karateka, boxers, sumo wrestlers, etc. competed and 1 of the ways you could win was submission and it allowed ground techniques. Benny Urquidez uses grappling pins to gain points against his much heavier opponent.If one combined MMA training along with gun practice, knife and stick fighting, you'd have the most complete approach to unarmed and armed combat.
>>198512MMA is no more a martial art than spring mix is a vegetable.
>>198517Not only is MMA a martial art, but it's provably better than all the others.
>>198518It definitely gives a well rounded base but it's not a silver bullet guarantee for success. It makes Jack of All Trades and Master of None so your 30% groundfighting may get overwhelmed by a superior submission grappler (provided your striking and clinch fighting doesn't help out). Or a well versed boxer or Nak Muay absolutely steamrolling a grappler whose getting neutralized by sprawl & brawl.Styles do make fights but so does the skill set of the individual, terrain, luck, etc.
>>198520Cool theorycrafting but it doesn't pan out in practice, as has been demonstrated over decades of UFC, Pride, and every other promotion that has none or next to no limitations on what you can do during contests. Pure boxers, judokas, BJJ guys, sumoists, whatever, they all lose to the guy who trains MMA.
>>198518LMAO of course no, I saw amateurs MMA fighters alot, they get punched by proppely trained boxers and get their ass thrown by propperly trained wrestlers. Almost all professional MMA fighters started from specializing in some martial art and then were adding to their style something. It's veryy noob thinking - to make perfect martial art throw in hands from boxing, kicks from muay thay, stand up from wrestling, ground from BJJ - boom, now we have perfect martial art. But the thing is, there is no caoch who knows all this perfectly. You don't need this perfect MA that has everything (MMA), you need specailized martial arts that focuses on some thing. If learn as amateur adult once per week how to punch, once per week how to throw and once per week how to choke you will learn nothing
>>198523That's great and all but no MMA guy trains like that. They train the whole package. And no one has ever outdone them by doing the stupid shit you suggest.
>>198524>no MMA guy trains like thatYou mean GSP didn't train kyokushin at first, then didn't trained freestyle wrestling separately with some wrestling team, then didn't train BJJ separately with Firas Zahabi and John Danaher? You mean Fedor wasn't in russian judo team and then didn't hire two boxing coaches? LMAO. Every MMA pro has training history exactly as I explained. There is no school of MMA as martial art.>They train the whole packageOnly when they peaking before competitions
>>198535adding to your list>Werdum didn't go to Croatia and learned kickboxing with Crocop while Crocop learned jiu-jitsu with Werdum
>>198521Explain Alex Perieira.
>>198535>Only when they peaking before competitionsIn other words you agree with me, but still want to cry about some dumb bullshit. Kids don't have access to MMA classes, so they do karate, wrestling, judo, or whatever else they have access to, and then they move on to proper MMA when they actually have the chance because that's better than what they were doing before.
>>198518Practicing multiple martial arts is not itself a martial art. It's arguably a good idea, but definitionally, you have a problem with your position.
>>198554>Kids don't have access to MMA classes, so they do karate, wrestling, judo, or whatever else they have access to, and then they move on to proper MMA when they actually have the chance because that's better than what they were doing before.Yeah 20 something kid GSP trained with Canadian freestyle wrestling team and studied proper BJJ with Renzo Gracie where he was getting belts because couldn't study the dangerous style of MMA>>Only when they peaking before competitions>In other words you agree with meAre you retarded? If you do judo, you don't train boxing and then peaking by doing judo before judo competitions. If you do freestyle wrestling, you don't train greco roman wrestling and then peaking by actual freestyle wrestling training before competitions. If you do MMA you study proper specialized arts from specialized coaches and then before comps trying to put everything you've learned together.
>>198571MMA is not multiple martial arts, just like kickboxing is not boxing + karate, it's just kickboxing.
>>197380Boxer and judoka; they're the best for someone on a budget since they're dirt cheap compared to other schools and complement each other. I have footwork and know how to throw body punches as well as do foot sweeps and hip tosses in case I get into a scuffle. I concede my weakness is getting kicked to the legs which I learned the hard way many moons ago when I stupidly fought that punk at a party. He was an amateur Muay Thai fighter and I had no idea just how crippling a shin kick to my thigh was gonna be. Luckily his chin wasn't good so I knocked him out cold but I was limping the next 2 days. There is no best art. Everybody is different and has different body types. One approach can't fit everything. Even MMA requires an insane amount of time and dedication for you to be good at both striking and grappling in all it's facets. Most people don't have the time and resources to devote unless they're a pro.
>>198521I've been an MMA fan since 1999 when I got Internet and downloaded all the UFC, PRIDE, Shooto and other MMA events. I love the sport but just because a guy has more tools like cross-training in MT, BJJ, etc. doesn't translate to success against a purist. It boils down to how good the fighter is and how they use everything to their advantage. If their striking is mediocre at best, the pure striker will win. Hence, the MMA fighter will have to use their grappling and ground skills to negate that advantage. And vice-versa. There's very few MMA fighters that are going to max out stats in submission grappling, striking, clinching/dirty boxing, ground & pound, stand-up grappling. They'll definitely excel in certain areas that suit them while having passable acumen in others just to get by in competition.
>>198600>I love the sport but just because a guy has more tools like cross-training in MT, BJJ, etc. doesn't translate to success against a purist.It does. We've seen it over and over. Purists don't last a single round.
>>198601In an MMA match? I agree because its rules and competitive format is what it's all about. But in a self-defense situation, an A-level boxer or Dutch kickboxer can demolish an MMA guy if the latter's striking isn't up to par and they can't grab them to force them into the ground. A Mundial-level Jiu-Jitiero or NCAA-ranked collegiate wrestler has a good chance of slamming and/or submitting an MMA fighter with great hands, knees, elbows, kicks but inferior wrestling/groundfighting.
>>198602>In an MMA match? I agree because its rules and competitive format is what it's all about. This has always been a laughable cope. MMA promotions, even in the modern day, have always had the least amount of rules and restrictions on what you can do out of every martial art competition out there.It is the closest thing a combat sport can get to a "self-defense situation."
>>198603>It is the closest thing a combat sport can get to a "self-defense situation."The closest thing was Vale Tudo in Brazil; that shit was the Wild West of proto-MMA. There are accounts of a guy's eyeballs getting popped up from an elbow strike, rabbit punches on the back of the head, 12-6 elbows being spiked on the head and spine, knees to downed opponents. Modern MMA is still a sport; a very brutal one but there's still restraints. I'm a former folkstyle wrestler and current boxer. I definitely have more advantages than a 1-dimensional fighter, but I'm not going to be dipshitted enough to automatically believe I'll automatically win. I actually been in street fights and it's not safe at all. I learned that the hard way and have the scars to remember it when I'm in front of a mirror. How you train is how you react and it definitely gives you an edge, but in self-defense, you gotta play dirty. There are 2 invaluable things I learned: There are no rules and people are cowardly so they attack in groups.
>>198602Boxers can't even stop hugging each other in their own sport, through what fucking magic is a boxer going to prevent an MMA guy from grabbing him?
>>198605A boxing clinch is a tactic to tie up an opponent and gain a bit of respite. Nobody's gonna fucking do that in a self-defense situation where the boxer doesn't want the other guy to get in close or even potentially bite their neck. I wouldn't even do the Muay clinch either. The boxer/kickboxer is going to keep the fight at a distance which is to their full advantage and obviously on their feet.
>>198606>oooooh but what if I bite you???Okay, you are just retarded.
>>198607Real life is not a fucking sport you moron. Never assume the other guy is gonna fight fair. Even Bruce Lee advocated that biting is instinctual when you have no choice. You don't plan on doing it unless your life depends on it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ii-MLjI5FycAnd I'm not saying dirty tactics like eye gouges are going to negate a guy that has your back and about to put a choke. Gerard Gordeau eye-gouged Yuki Nakai (and this was in an MMA contest) but that still didn't prohibit the gutsy future founder of BJJ in Japan to eventually leglock that motherfucker. You play in your comfort zone and don't let the other guy play in theirs. My brother in Christ, I don't think you understand what I'm trying to say here.
>>198605>spotsmen MUST use sport tactics on the streets - boxers must hug, wrestlers must do roll overs from mat, judokas must fall on their stomachs, jitsers must fall on their backs
>>198616>a MMA guy can't grab a guy who does boxing because well um it's just impossible on da streets
>>198617Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth as Mike Tyson says. If the MMA guy is smart, they keep their hands up with a tight guard while they launch Muay cut kicks to soften the boxer up. Chances are the boxer has no idea how to check a low kick and will be immobilized and then you can close the distance and get them on the ground to choke or joint-lock. But anything can happen in the streets.
>>198618or as many early MMA fights show, they just walk up to the boxer and grab himwhat the fuck is this retarded fiction writing session
>>198619Do you really think the boxer will not try to keep their distance and crack the guy in the jaw? This isn't pointless speculation, anything can happen in a life-or-death situation when people's adrenaline is up and they know they're in danger.
>>198620there are countless examples of things unfolding the way I described and yet you persist at this stupid nofight fantasybut at least you're not talking about biting anymore lmao
>>198621For fuck's sake I sincerely hope you don't learn this the hard way if you think your grappling is something you should automatically do when confronted in the real world. Nobody in their right mind should delude themselves that their training in wrestling/BJJ or whatever is going to have them pull off a win without any serious injury or death to themselves. I actually got into scuffles when growing up and it is not fun and I could've gotten hurt way worse than what had happened. And this was while I wrestled in high school btw.
>>198617Yes. MMA guy did one day of striking, one day of wrestling and one day of ground work. He can't punch properly and his takedowns are shittier than BJJ white belt takedowns. Amateur level is not where mixing styles gives you advantages
>>198685To be fair, the MMA guy spending years of training and gaining ring experience will have him reach above average levels so long as they're consistent.Stats wise, a journeyman MMA would probably be at least rank 5 out of 10 in striking, sub grappling, stand-up grappling, neck-wrestling and clinching because they need to at least be competent in all those areas in the big leagues. They may not punch or kick as well as a Glory or Lumpini stadium fighter or have extensive guards like an ADCC or Mundial competitor, but they have the other areas to help out and they're trained how to put it together cohesively.
>>198714But how?
>>198715What do you mean how? By constantly training and testing themselves out in the cage/ring. You only develop if you keep training every week and apply it. Yeah in the beginning they're not going to be good at all. But after a couple of years of say 30 hours weekly training, they'll at least be able to know how to properly throw a punch, tuck their chin, be in closed guard and sweep, throw and check low kicks, how to defend from ground and pound, do dirty boxing with knees in clinch range.
>>198496>mad about internet people shitting on judo >talks about how judo is part of Krav maga and systema>expects anyone to respect Judo more?kekKrav Maga and systema are memes, gay, and Krav basically isn't even a martial art. It's more like a loose collection of basic, common sense ideas. "If a guy grabs you, grab his balls and punch him in the neck. If you have a gun, shoot him. "
>>198589>MMA is not multiple martial artsKickboxing is a distinct martial art. It is a style unto itself which includes kicks and punches, named Kickboxing to distinguish itself from hands-only Boxing. There wasn't a style called Kick that people practiced independently until they merged its practice with Boxing, and so it is itself a distinct martial art.The entire premise of MMA is that everyone is practicing multiple styles of martial arts simultaneously, and you're the only person pretending otherwise.Every discussion surrounding MMA has to do with the degrees of success fighters obtain using different styles like Brazilian Jiu Jitsu (a distinct martial art) or Muay Thai (another distinct martial art), or even Kickboxing (a third distinct martial art).There is no distinct martial arts style called Mixed Martial Arts. MMA exists at the intersection of other named arts practiced simultaneously, and nowhere else.By definition, you are wrong.
>>199174>The entire premise of MMA is that everyone is practicing multiple styles of martial arts simultaneouslyKickboxing is the same way, it's just a way to practice multiple styles simultaneously (karate + boxing), therefore by your imbecilic logic it's not a real martial art.
>>199211>Kickboxing is the same way, it's just a way to practice multiple styles simultaneously (karate + boxing)Not him, but maybe it was so when kickboxing just appeared (still not sure because there were MAs that combined kicks and punches) but it is clearly a separate martial art now - your coach will teach you everything you need for competing from scratch. If you do MMA you need to travel somewhere to learn proper wrestling, then travel somwhere to learn proper BJJ etc (substitute "travel somewhere" with "hire specialized coach" if you want).
>>199215>Not him, but maybe it was so when kickboxing just appeared (still not sure because there were MAs that combined kicks and punches) but it is clearly a separate martial art nowThen so is MMA.>If you do MMA you need to travel somewhere to learn proper wrestling, then travel somwhere to learn proper BJJ etc (substitute "travel somewhere" with "hire specialized coach" if you want).Maybe if you are living in the 90s.By now it's evident that you're completely clueless on the subject so it's no surprise you have these utterly retarded opinions.
>>199216>Then so is MMA.No, as already was shown - for MMA you need to study separate martial arts from specialized coaches, like Petr Yan whose base is some striking MA and who travels to Dagestan all the time to train with russian wrestling team, and there is more such examples. But you just go in full denial without any arguments.
>>199222 I refuted your """arguments""" using your own retarded logic and all you can do is stomp your feet and cry.
>>199224If you used retarded logic then you can't refute any arguments. If these are not real arguments then you can use non retarded logic to show why they are not real arguments. You didn't do any of that
>>199227>you have to make my own argument for me or it doesn't count!You're too stupid to be having this conversation.
>>199228>me: if my arguments are bad you can simply show why they are bad>you: your arguments are bad and I used bad logic to show why they are badAgain, what are these great arguments you used to show GSP did not train wrestling with Canadian wrestling team and Petr Yan did not train wrestling with Dagestan wrestling team? Were these arguments somehow produced by """my""" """retarded logic""""?
