Is it even possible to make goblins anything else than canon fodder ? They are either useless little shits, discount green gnomes, discount orcs or fap bait shortstacks/serial rapists.
>>92669785>Can you even make goblins interesting?Yes, but obviously you can't.
>>92669971Warhammer goblins are at best a watered down version of orks despite being cool.
>>92669785I like how Morkborg made them infectious. In short, if a character is attacked by a goblin then they need to kill it in a set amount of time or they'll end up turning into one. It makes them sort of like less gay werewolves except with a neverending spiral of violence.
>>92669785Give them gunsSuddenly a world power.
I can't look at goblins the same after playing corruption of champions.
>>92669785I rip mine from SoTDL and blend them with roma and other generic europoor caravan cultures.Weird exiled fae, stripped of immortality, forced into ugly and disgusting forms with ugly and disgusting fascinations. No really evil, just vile to be around.
>>92669785My goblins live in the giant sewer as a parasitic janny society keeping the dwarves' pipes from backing up, and are the oldest extant branch of hominina, predating even elves. They domesticated rats into a bunch of different breeds, most importantly for food since the rats eat the shit and the goblins eat the rats. So it's a sort of subterranean pastoral society, relying on assassinations and snakey politics for powergrabs, since the dwarves will come in and burn them out if they break out into any kind of large-scale conflict that interferes with the flow of sewage.Other than the rat-lords of the Bowelery, the rest are your bog standard tribal stages competing with kobolds for the burrowing scavenger/opportunistic pack hunter niche.
>>92669785I think people who when confronted with a goblin think of it in terms of species, culture, society, stereotype, cliches, etc, they betray that they aren't very good at coming up with interesting characters. "Making goblins interesting" suggests you only think of them as a collection of tropes, rather than as a series of conditions to inform the background of a character. I think this is another expression of the chronic world builder, who never runs a game because they are trying to make every detail of their game inherently interesting. Which only works for other world builders who also do not run any games.Or in short, if you're bored you're boring.
>>92670131>I like how mork borg ripped of a goblin punch article from the 2013 osr blog scene
>>92669971fpbp
>>92670035I didn't even mention Warhammer. Jesus fucking Christ, unfuck your brain from trash setting limitations and try to work out how to be creative on your own.
My gobos are just Sranc but hairy and with a little bit less rape/
>>92669785>useless little shits>discount orcsYes. They are orc-like vermin which gives them a niche and can be put to use in interesting ways very easily. The fact that they are crude and vicious lets you come up with traps and battle plans that are dumb but fun.>>92670322>live in the giant sewer as a parasitic janny society>domesticated ratsPerfect. Stealing this.
I am heavily considering making goblins an orc subrace in my setting but it feels cheap and uninspired I basically just stole some tolkien lore for the orcs already, making them elves who were demonically corrupted long ago, but are still "noble savages" as some liked to call them, living in swamps, and being commonly used as slave fodder by dwarvesany ideas on how to make them have a reason to exist in the first place without being small orcs?
>>92671089Bro your image has a Warhammer goblin in it.
>>92669785Night goblins are already the best, there's no use even trying. In my setting, 'goblin' just a general diminutive term for nasty little fairy creatures.
Well, the easiest way is to just cut down on the race bloat, that way there will be a larger narrative niche for them to fill.Other than that, you could just actually explore and expound upon what life/society would be like for a dumb green midget. For example, you could look at their phisology and come up with a reason for why they would need to be green manlets. Perhaps goblins are native to rainforests; their small size and impressive dexterity could be the result of an arboreal lifestyle, with their green skin suited for blending into the canopy. This would give goblins a big focus on verticality and ambush tactics.
>>92669785There's literally no fucking reason to make goblins that are not like the left side of the image.
>>92669785I gave my goblins in my homebrew rapid evolution. A few generations in an area or near civilization and they adapt drastically to the point that some species are believed to come from them originally. A goblin on an instinctual level like you know how to nod up and down for yes will always know if someone in front of them is a goblin. This is good because with this rapid change a goblin can be feral green big nose chaos demons, red craggy skin autistic yokai mutes who spend their days mining and brewing or short stacks. This gift was bestowed upon goblinkind after the falling of the skyneedle and first night for the loyalty of the cult of the hive. The sky needle being a space station that kept a forcefield around the planet and the hive being space bugs that posses insectoid species or convince simple minded ones to do their bidding.
>>92671484I'm not OP, stupid.
>>92671647>For example, you could look at their phisology and come up with a reason for why they would need to be green manlets.Two redflags:1. Assumption that goblins have to be green.2. Assumption that physiology has to have some evolutionary reason.Both leave you unable to branch out into the proper way of doing this, which is to go back to source material (proper source material, not something like D&D or War[insert other word here]), and unpack the fundamentals of goblins and grow the idea from ground up again.
>>92669785I would try giving them more skin color variety. I mean, why green of all colors, why not stick to stuff that makes remote biological sense? Not to mention how having different colors allows for greater ease in creating factions.
>>92673045I went with green because of the OP image, that's all. You can have gray or orange or even teansparent goblins for all I care.As for the second point, there doesn't necesarily need to be an evolutionary reason for their phisology. I mean, look at LoTR - goblins and orcs are just corrupted elves, and their phisology reflects that. They have a sort of mangled, ruined appearance, and often have a bent-over animalistic stance.I'm sorry if my post sounded like I was saying "this is the way you have to look at things." I was only giving an example of you could extrapolate information from basic features.
>>92670035They are not a watered down version of orks....
>>92669785>Is it even possible to make goblins anything else than canon fodder ?Make them playable character.
>>92673140>why green of all colorscamouflage in an environment naturally full of green (moss, grass, trees, etc.)
>>92669785You forgot the 'gold-grubbing sleazebag wheeler-dealers' archetype, which happens to be their best fit. Gnomes don't have it in them to operate undermarkets.
How about science worshippers?>can't do science>rely on others like humans and elves to do the thinking>kidnap members of smart races like humans and elves>war against other technological societies like dwarves>are known for highly technological society>aren't known for reliable technology, e.g. grenades spontaneously explodeYou can have both Warhammer and Warcraft goblins at once.
Goblins are extreme survivalists who can't really grasp the concept of a stable society. If they stay too long in a safe place, they push technology into steampunk, but in a complete rushed, unsafe, mad-scientist-like way of thinking."Wild" goblins are just the usual cannon fodder"Civilized" goblins are Spider-Man-supervillain levels of threat
>>92669785I always liked the way warcraft handled gnomes and goblins. Both so alike and different.
>>92669785Well, since many settings make goblins be highly fertile and quick to make more goblins, why not lean into that on both the biological and cultural angles?
>>92669785Malifaux goblins (Gremlins) are swine-herding, lazy, crude human-boo bandits. They adopt and caricature parts of human culture, so some of them are stereotypical bayou American Southerners, others are complete Fu-Manchu.They're still little shits, but they're entertaining and you can create goblin society instead of just having them be fodder.It's also worth defining them in terms of opposition, like how >>92670322 has it. A society is very much informed by their enemies.Other than that, I'm partial to Warcraft retard engineer/scientist/capitalist types with a barely functional sense of self-preservation. Or maybe it's just the smarter they get, the crazier and more reckless they become.
>>92670408Perhaps seven people have read that.
>>92669785Imagine if rats were 50% better at scheming and could wield knives.There we go.
>>92669785They're one of the many devolved descendants of the Ancient Mage Empire's attempts at attaining (discount) godhood. Because clearly if the Gods created life, and the True Fae who are their servants brought forth magic, then clearly the Lords Magister who ruled the Empire could immortalise themselves by, in essence, aping their idols. Their idols did not approve.The end result of their attempts to enhance humanity resulted in modern, 'false' Fae. Goblins were once men who could survive toxic swamps, their bodies given attributes of frogs and toads and other such creatures. Now they are the stunted heralds of the swamps- a goblin raid can be sniffed out long before the semi-feral little shits appear. Places they infest slowly turn into marshes and swamps.Aesthetically, they're pretty much Spiderwick Goblins because I've always liked their design.
I just replaced goblins with indians and gypsies
>>92669785Goblins as kill fodder is interesting to me, so that's all that matters for my games.
>>92670131>Mọŕƙ Ɓơřĝ>less gay than anything
>>92669785Tolkien goblins are more charming and more interesting than modern fantasy goblins. They totally are canon fodder but they're also a lot of other things in addition to being canon fodder.
>>92677166>that coffee cupWtf.
>>92669785Give them a unique twist on how they use magic, like making them the only race crazy enough to make demonic pacts for power on a large scale.
>>92669971Fpbp
>>92670169that's a green elf
>>92670178Cumbrain
>>92670360
Make them use pack tactics. Surprise attacks, traps, guerilla warfare, sneaking and stealing resources.
>>92674300Clearly you haven't played Arcanum.
Warhammer online did, because it implied that goblins excel at magic and controlling pets. Those are really the only ways you can give goblins some useful skills, other than sneaky stuff. If the setting has high tech you could give goblins some technical ability, but they are not a high IQ race so it makes no sense. GW fucked it up by not capitalizing on it and instead retaining the idea that orcs can also cast magic and herd squigs, causing goblins to become shittier orcs.
>>92687807I loved the goblin gear sets in that game.
>>92678889>its only intellectual dishonesty if enough people see it Gay. Patrick is almost bipolar so he counts as a few.
>>92677493so are there goblins running around in blackface in your world?
>>92669785How about making them literal demons trapped in the mortal world?
Let me propose something. First, this is the description of Harry Potter goblins according to TV tropes:"The goblins from Harry Potter are diminutive characters with long hands and long feet who maintain the bank and mint of the British wizard community. They're slightly friendlier than most other goblin examples listed here, and as Professor Flitwick shows are capable of interbreeding with humans. History classes suggest the past was filled with bloody wars between wizards and goblins until the two sides arrived at some sort of lasting accord, which, combined with goblin society having a very different concept of ownership than wizarding society (the right to a manufactured good remains with the manufacturer; any exchange of money for possession of a goblin-made object is therefore a lifetime rental, not a permanent transfer of ownership), has left both wizards and goblins convinced the other are perfidious thieves by nature. This causes problems at a crucial moment of the final book, when some goblins with whom Harry and co. had made a deal decide the terms have been met by the stingiest definition possible and try to forcibly repossess the sword of the centuries-dead Godric Gryffindor"
>>92690837As you can see, goblins in that world tend a little towards filling the "dwarven" niche. They also share with tolkien's dwarves a difficult representation outside their catalyzer setting (LOTR). It is possibly due to the fact that is hard to portray in a serious manner the violence and sociopathy of goblins or the childish stubborness of the dwarves, and this relegates both races indefectibly to the status of comic relief.To save them from this fate and come up with a race that is interesting to play I propose to attempt anew a mix of the two, making a solid and sensible version that includes the attractive parts of each one.As a provisional name, I think that Nibelungs is a good way to refer to them unless anybody can think of a better one. To be continued
>>92671468I made them an orc mutation. Goblins, orcs and ogres are the same species, with weird reproductive dimorphism. Most of the time, when they breed, they'll get orcs, sometimes, they get a litter of goblins instead, rarely, they'll get an ogre (which will likely kill the mother). The result is random, it doesn't matter what variant the parents are (though goblin females will rarely survive birthing an orc, and with ogres, they don't even get to term).
>>92690949Im going to sketch them now, stream of thought1. Male nibelungs look like >>92676307 , while female ones are like >>92680186 . This solves at once the need for bearded girls and you can tone the real appearance of male goblins to your personal taste under the horned helmets and the beards. It also reportedly respects the shortstack goblin fetish (correct me if im wrong).2. Nibelungs are greedy. This is something both dwarves and goblins share. They dig under earth, hoard treasure and sometimes desire what other people have. This can make for interesting encounters as bandits, specially if you have a fancy magic item. Nibelungs love crafting and collecting magic items, and this makes for a good source of magic objects in your game.3. The name Goblin can still be used to refer to them if you want, posibly as slur. The term dwarf can be used too, but only by taller races. It makes no sense that hobbit midgets call a dwarf to someone taller than them.4. You don't really need a thousand humanoid races crawling through a 5' tunnel. Different tribes of nibelungs can make up for underworld factions. They also have the smaller Gnomes to deal with. In case you dont like the Nibelungs being magic item productors on top of collectors, you can make the production of items being something of the Gnomes instead.Interestingly >>92687364 there are many dwarves and goblin threads right now.
>>926910575. Nibelungs are an underworld race. This means that they don't impact on the surface wars. They can do skirmishes but no more. They suffer light penalties (dwarves not having one is certainly absurd) and have at least limited infravision6. They are not technological. They craft magical shit sometimes but not over the top technological devices. That is something that came from warcraft but it just doesnt make sense that an underworld race makes aircrafts. Bombs... maybe. 7. The sociopath chaotic evil race slot is still open but i think that is more suited to minor demons or something like that
>>92691057If i recall correctly, dwarves in lotr are supposed to have pointy ears. I buy it
>>92691057I'll call them Nibbers.
>>92669785Give them tactics, legit team tactics and terrain awareness. short little shits that gain full cover from what would be half-cover for any other raceranged hit and runsmove and scoot, make players earn each inch with sweat, blood and ironretreat from injury or retreat with injured; deny loot from spoils or information from capturesuperior scorched earth attrition over time; small size could mean 1 ration for 4 or more gobos, while killing and pillaging will sustain a larger force pound of flesh per pound of steel
>>92669785How are they uninteresting?
>>92669785I thought race traitor hob goblins from warhammer were cool. The ones from dot hack were also fun.
Goblins are little shits that gets things done. That's why I love them.
Make them hot.
>>92690837>the right to a manufactured good remains with the manufacturer>The goblins from Harry Potter are diminutive characters with long hands and long feet who maintain the bank and mint of the British wizard community>maintain the bank and mint of the British wizard communitySo basically the Goblins own (or at least believe they own), every single coin and bit of currency in the British wizarding world?
>>92672995not that anon but pull the gnarled shillelagh out of your ass and realize it was a dumb mistake you inordinately angry faggot
>>92669971fpbp, op got owned
>>92669785no bitches?
>>92669971FPBP, OP is a retarded faggot
>>92682842>and gnomes are also elves but smaller, halflings are also elves but smaller and with hairy feet, dwarves are also elves but smaller, broader and with a beard and really, humans are also elves without pointy ears.By your retard logic everything is elves. Just because these kinda goblins aren't the ONE SINGULAR aesthetic of goblin you accept in all of fiction doesn't mean they are elves, because they still have nothing in common with them, hell, even the pointy ears look completely different from elven ones. Because what makes the goblin high-horsing extra ironic is always that when you say shit like that the traits that make or break it for you are "ugly" and when you feel daring "pointy nose" and yet you feel like you are connoisseur of the higher arts for having such a basic bitch opinion.
>>92703881nta, but cope and seethe.that coombait "goblin" is just a green elf.
>>92669785What are some good mount choices for them besides wolves?
>>92703766Learn how to use punctuation, you retarded, ESL cunt.
>>92709774>classical fantasy goblins were literally the same species as orks>modern orks are just green ogresthis you, this is what you sound like
>>92670322Very interesting. I like.
>>92693203GET THAT FUCKING AI SLOP OUT OF HERE
>>92673045Even in settings where they're explicitly created rather than a natural occurrence, it's still often done for an objective purpose, often as warriors or agents of a malignant force who can sustain themselves with a minimal logistical trail. Goblins might suck in a fair fight, but they can give an untrained human peasant a run for his money that he'd be foolhardy to gamble and occupy a stretch of territory for practically free when acting under a larger organization.If they couldn't do anything decently, their creators would cease propping them up and natural selection would had culled them.
>>92714810Anon, the "wrong" part you highlighted isn't part of the glass but the space between her fingers.
>>92669785Goblins are Pajeets>Long ago the Goblins lived in a peaceful utopian society until humans invaded and conquered them>Humams set up a caste system and since there weren’t enough human women they settled for goblin women>Today most of the population are hobgoblins from 80% humans who look mostly human to only having trace amounts of human blood and essentially being full goblinsThis also allows you to keep the rape in and you could base them on Spanish conquistadors and Latin America instead.
>>92714907>a peaceful utopian society until humans invadedRajesh, I...
Make them a noble retinue
>>92714852You're still stuck on "what other settings do".
>>92693203>Give them tactics, legit team tactics and terrain awareness.Tucker's Kobolds: Goblin Edition?
>>92714810My God...You are either dumber than a decomposing zombie or you have the eyesight of a golden mole.
>>92669785For me?I always view the Goblins as the mixed cunning sorta guys, with 9/10 having some kind of retardation, leaving a chance for a few smarties to round up the rest. As races go i like them being the opportunistic shits who try and find the shortest way to a solution without real longevity, and this always comes out in different ways, with shit like>Learning bad magic/science that might bite you in the arse down the line.>Taming or Praising creatures bigger and deadlier than themselves >Inhumane warfare/laws to achieve the swiftest solution to a problem.This isn't to say they're a people who only create assholes, but its definitely askewed that way.
>>92701058Yes, that's exactly correct.
>>92705228goats
