Why nobody else has procured a grenade sniper for their soldiers but the based Chinks?
>>61563897Because it's a bad idea.
>>61563897Why not English you speak good Chang ?
>>61563897我好兴奋 大便在我嘴里
Because the chink one lacks the feature that western militarys recognize as critical to its use, which is airbursting. We tried it, in fact most countries tried it (AICW, Felin, the prototype F2000, etc), and it just wasn't there yet. We will keep trying it every decade until its good enough, and then we will have the best one and not a giant dumbfire high recoil cannon like the chinks. If only our rifle acquisitions were held to such a high standard.
>>61563897The US had a similar concept. The Chinese equivalent needed a longer barrel to compensate for the drop that the heavier 35mm round carried compared to the 25mm round on the US version. I personally think the XM25 should be revisited perhaps in 30mm with a longer range. Great for anti-material, anti-light armor, anti-squad and most importantly, anti-drone duties. Apparently it's only downside was that it took up space that could have been filled with another rifle or machine gun but on todays battlefield it's probably worth being down a rifleman to gain squad level drone defense.
>>61563922>>61563931Ideal squad should be 4x RM2772x REAPR2x XM25 + PDW1x ATGM + PDW1x MORTAR + PDWYou know I'm right. Make each squad a micro-artillery force that can also pull long range and short range direct fire suppression
>>61563931It is, just in the last year or so. Its the Precision Grenade System. I hope more companies jump onboard, because so far both the German and FN entries look like dogshit and another entry is literally frag-12 rounds shot from an M110 receiver.
>>61563931The XM25 fired programmable smart grenades.The chink launcher doesn't.>Apparently it's only downside was that it took up space that could have been filled with another rifle or machine gunNo, the real downside was that the XM25 was illegal to use in war. It violated the Saint Petersburg declaration of 1868, which is literally the oldest international law of war and which bans "exploding musket balls".
>>61563897Everyone else uses 84mm grenades.
>>61563955...which we are not a signee of and never were.
>>61563897Made this back in 2018, seems like people are starting to realize I was right
>>61563953>another entry is literally frag-12 rounds shot from an M110 receiver.What the fuck. Does the MIC really thing the average soldier cannot learn something that isn't based around an AR body style? I swear to god this sort if thinking is catastrophically holding back military procurement. It's exactly like how the army was afraid to move away from something that wasn't Garand based in the 50s.
>>61563955>Blyat! Cannot be of usings exploding munition am is of warcrime!!>The United States, not considered a major power at the time, was not invited and took no part in the convention.
>>61563978>Does the MIC really thing the average soldier cannot learn something that isn't based around an AR body style?No, they just don't want to exclude even the dumbest assest crayon eatingest retards from military service.
>>61563922>>61563955dummy
>>61563964>>61563987The provisions of the Saint Petersburg declaration were also included in the "Laws of war on land" section of the 1907 Hague convention which was fully ratified by the United States.So yes, the US is obliged to abide by the Saint Petersburg Declaration of 1868.Get fucked.
>>61564004The XM25 doesn't fire "exploding musketballs" and the US still uses airburst munitions and 40mm grenade launchers anyway.
>>61564008The problem is that "exploding musket balls" is defined as all explosive shells weighing less than 400 grams.Technically regular grenade launchers and auto-cannons are therefore banned by this law, but it seems everyone has decided to ignore this and informally draw the line at rifle caliber ammunition.But specifically the smart grenades are an issue, because they can theoretically be programmed to explode inside the body of an enemy soldier, which is exactly the kind of thing the old law was trying to abolish.So the argument can be made that the XM25 is "more" illegal than other grenade launchers and auto-cannons, and the US government wanted to avoid the legal arguments and accusations of war crimes which would likely result from fully adopting and fielding the XM25.
>>61564045I'll never understand why certain things are illegal and others aren't. >you can fire pieces of hot metals at the enemy, which will maim and kill>you can burn the enemy to a crisp>you can cut the enemy to pieces with sharp metal blades>you can detonate an explosion of any size right next to an enemy>but you can't make them explode from the inside because you just can't, ok?
>>61564061Yeah, the law was written with good intentions to reduce suffering, but it doesn't really make a whole lot of sense to ban exploding bullets when all kind of other cruelty is considered perfectly fine.It should also be mentioned that the 1907 Hague conventions bans a ton of other things such as using aircraft to bomb cities, and disguising military ships as civilian vessels, which everyone just ignored.
>>61563922QLU-131A is an updated version that is airburst capable.
>>61563897ISIS had extensive use of the 23mm sniper canon.
>>61564061Because at the time those laws were written, the things that were allowed would, depending on how you were hit, either kill you quick and painless, or just or leave injuries that you could reasonably survive.They banned things that would turn a shitty but survivable wound into a painful, drawn out death.
>>61563897just get this instead
>>61563897its vely implessive
why is this faction so fucking weak
>>61564393SA always makes great launchers
>I am forgotten
>>61563897The Chinese developed this for removing pajeets from the Himalayas. No other country really has such a need.
>>61563897why is the barrel not in line with the receiver?
cause whole thing is heavy, large and don't give you enough advantage to cary it around in place of normal weapon, much better idea are light mortar systems such as antos
>>61566772it is, it's just thic and bolt have this weird cut at ejection port
>>61566863nah bruh they differnt. I seent. I ain't no dummy.
>>61563897I feel like a 60mm mortar and drone correction is probably more effective than this in basically any imaginable combat scenario but I was navy not army so wtf do I know
>>61566985maybe easier to see here
>>61564004Wouldn't that also include any explosive shells fired by tank guns or other portable weapons?
>>61563947This might be one of the gayest fattest faggot slob sit on your ass video game manchild dork suggestion ever. The 12 year old standard answer of give everyone a sniper rifle or lmg would be better than this.
>>61563978You see some epic as fuck irl Elysium shit and you have a sperg out how it’s not high te h enough for grunts. Real deal kill yourself dude. Don’t hesitate get a gun now. Doesn’t matter if you add to the stats you are a special faggot case
>>61569529Are you 12?
Didn't /k/ design a grenade sniper rifle for some game a while back?I mean old /k/ of course, nu/k/ is far too cynical and edgy to ever do a thing.
>>61563931This seems like it'd be effective in conflicts like in Ukraine working trench lines and getting shells into dug in holes within the trench.
>>61563922couldn't this be achieved mechanically, after it ricochets off the ground once? Just a simple bounce and burst?
>>61563947lmao
I wonder if it's legal to import flare launchers from China, make some chambered in 37mm, import them and then make 40mm barrels stateside to make them regular grenade rifles with a tax stamp.
>>61563955>No, the real downside was that the XM25 was illegal to use in war.The only downside it was infringed on the faggot MIC who wanted to fire Javelins at mudhuts, because it was more profitable. And some faggot shit with a double feed which caused some contract bullshit to occur and some bitching and moaning about ammo prices (but paying 90k for a bag of shitty washers isn't an issue).The entire procurement system is a load of fucking shit bridled with corruption.
>>61570508That was a fun timeArmy of Two: The 40th Day had a contest where people could submit their own weapon designs and whichever ones got the most votes would get included in the game; /k/ collectively hacked together the most shitposty image they could manage (unfortunately toned down by the devs) and votebombed it into getting included alongside some youtuber's design.
>>61571010https://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Army_of_Two:_The_40th_Day#Sniper_Launcher_aka_S8-Z_.22Grand_Pinger.22Lol, you absolute mad lads. I think I still want to buy a Yeet Cannon.
>>61571010Army of Two was surprisingly kino.Underrated.
>>61563897>Carries 40lbs rifle>Can only carry 5 rounds
>>61563897Don’t use the term chink, celestial is a much better slur
>>61570873no
>>61564004No, the US could give less of a shit about the Saint Petersburg Declaration. The big problem was the XM25 was jointly developed by H&K, who, being typical Germans, torpedoed development the moment they found out the weapon might possibly violate some vaguely written international agreement.
>>61571957We didn't name the Yeet Cannon. We all wanted it to be the Problem Solver.
>>61570856>trying to aim over distance by means of ricochet during active combat
>>61572224Is slur a good slur if almost nobody gets it today?
>>61573968Makes em seethe so yes it is.
>>61563955International laws are fake and gay and nobody should pay them any mind because we never fight anyone else that does.
>>61563904not when your fighting pahjeet in the Himalayas who you can see 2thousand kilometres away outside of small arms fire range
>>61574997>Two THOUSAND kilometersI don't think China has figured out a 1,200 mile range 20mm. Also, at that point, you have mortars or missiles, and non-man-portable options, all of which will do a much better job for a much longer period of time. I also find the 2km range claim to be pretty dubious in that size package, and 20mm sucks ass. 40mm kind of sucks and it has a lot more room for kaboom.
>>61574997>2thousand kilometres awayesl moment
>>61563947I LOVE THE REAPR I NEED THE REAPR SOMEONE ADOPT THE REAPR ALREADY
>>61575404It's supposed to have a range further than 2km. China says its up to 10km but I do not believe them. It would have a high vol and range though due to how its designed. Its designed to do this.
>>61563897we already have this, it can blow people up, shoot through armor, and just shoot like a normal sniper. its a sniper rifle. the barett M82
>>61576715It has less volume than 40mm which, as I said, kind of sucks at killing people, but does at least have solid utility. 20mm is less kaboomy, less lethal, and less utility, with specialized equipment and a specialized troop. How much ammo is the gunner carrying? Do they have an AG or dedicated extra ammo hauler? How long are they expected to do their job in a firefight? How are they organized - is this a platoon level weapon? It just does the job of other equipment worse and introduces new problems. If this thing had some niche, super specific use case, I'd probably think more highly of it as a concept.
>>61566776Can't be used indoors in urban setting
>>61564045>they can theoretically
>>61563955But isn't the XM25 a rifled weapon?
>>61569523>This might be one of the gayest fattest faggot slob sit on your ass video game manchild dork suggestion ever.Unfathomably based
>>61576884Pretty sure it replaced the squad level MG in the chink structure, but I could be wrong.
>>61563955we didnt write it, therefore it doesnt exist. DABBED ON REKT AND KEK'DUSA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA!
>>61576884I get so bored when I read things from people who pretend to know what their talking about.
>>61571957>Yeet Cannon.Was the retarded reddit/twitter name. We voted for Problem Solver.
>>61563897>grenadeIt has such a terrible frag and overpressure envelope, it barely qualifies as a grenade.>sniperThey have to cherry pick and tactically cut footage of test firings to produce a video that looks like hitting the intended target, and the ammunition has poor aerodynamics.>based ChinksObjectively incorrect. This is them committing the Third of the Six Follies of the Authoritarian: assuming that More is always More. It's a weapon that requires the enemy to be in a position where tiny grenades are effective against him. The operator cannot employ it effectively if under heavy suppressive fire. It's heavy, cumbersome and has a low magazine capacity. The ammunition has to be spread across multiple people in the unit in order to carry a useful amount. Once the operator exhausts his ammunition supply, those people have to concern themselves with resupplying him, distracting them from the fight. The utility in suppressing the enemy suffers from needing frequent reloads; in the assault this is fatal, in the defense this is a detriment. On the offense, its role could be better performed by equipping one man with a belt-fed LMG and another with a modern grenade launcher; on the defense a mounted GMG.
>>61564045Post a source schizo. This has nothing to do with XM-25 being rejected.
>>61563904COPE!
>>61563922
>>61578094Looks extremely unpleasant to shoot, couldn't they just use an optic with longer eye relief?
>>61564061> I'll never understand why certain things are illegal and others aren't. Because governments want to maintain their monopoly on violence at all times. They will take any opportunity to further that goal they can take. The only guiding logic is disarmament.
>>61563897I'm feeling nice today, here's your (You). And pic related isn't even the only one, the XM25 is coming back as the fuse issue has been rectified.>>61578107I wonder if you could apply that fancy recoil-dampening system from the new LWMMG to weapons like this
>>61564004>The provisions of the Saint Petersburg declaration were also included in the "Laws of war on land" section of the 1907 Hague convention which was fully ratified by the United States.[Citation Needed]
>>61578142>fuse issueNever heard of that being a problem. Unless you're referring to the out of battery detonation, which was no more a fault of the gun than it would be if the user had put it in his mouth and pulled the trigger. Not just user error, willful user error.
>>61576893Not with that attitude.
>>61563897Unironically, logistics.
>>61578094look at that fucking optic slide when he shoots good lord
>>61563955full retard take
>>61563897an unloaded one of those weighs as much as an RPG and 2 PG-7 rockets. The RPG is also pretty good for counter sniping while having other uses. I see no advantages to the grenade sniper thing.
>>61563922lmao
>>61564008I was gonna post that one!
smart airbursting grenade launchers will just be replaced with fpv drones.
>>61578104You know what would have been easier and more effective against that fortification, while also being lighter and cheaper and has been in service in the PLA for decades already? >>61578094What is this webm supposed to demonstrate?
>>61563897Would this rifle be effective against deathclaws?
>>61585347You can't engage multiple targets with an RPG in quick succesion and cannot use It inside confined spaces or prone. The QLU-11 is meant to be a DMR/Antimateriel rifle and not AT role.
>>61585418>You can't engage multiple targets with an RPG in quick succesionit really doesn't look like you can engage multiple targets all that quickly with the QLU-11 either without cutting the footage between each shot. I think it's a fun idea, and honestly if I could buy one for like $2000 I probably would. >The QLU-11 is meant to be a DMR/Antimateriel rifle and not AT role.It doesn't seem like it'd be more useful than an RPG for dealing with fortifications like in that webm, and it doesn't seem better than a 7.62 DMR for engaging multiple targets in quick succession.>cannot use It inside confined spacesI can't find the webm right now, but there is a video of people using an RPG in room to room fighting inside of an apartment building in Ukraine.>>61585415yeah, deathclaws DT is like 15 and they have 500 hp, while 40mm grenades do 100 explosion damage. So you should be able to take down a deathclaw before you need to reload.
>>61570508>nu/k/ is plagued by idiotic balts who have never seen a gun outside conscription training, and even then never shot oneftfy
>>61585523>should be able to take down a deathclaw before you need to reloadIF you don't missIF you get all of your shots off before it closes the distanceIF it doesn't have any friends
>>61563897>grenade sniperThis tells you all you need to know. It should have a much more technical name, but nobody's made anything like it, so there's no name for it. Why? Not due to lack of capability. Anybody could make a fuckhuge rifle capable of firing 25x137mm HE that's "theoretically" man-portable, but that's fucking stupid, so nobody does it.
>>61585523Also you can retrofit an RPG to use a countermass to reduce backblast overpressure for the operator, allowing for limited use from confined spaces. The ukraine case IIRC involved firing it down corridors with lots of empty space ahead and behind, and can't really be extrapolated to "RPG is indoor usable as-is".
>>61563897>based>>61563897>Chinkspick one, there should be no trade or financing between communist china and the g7 eu and usa, covid and chinas trade with the russian dictator proves that the chinese communists are again a stain on mankind and the chinese people. through the Chinese-run POW camps during the winter of 1950–51. About 43% of U.S. POWs died during this period. The Chinese defended their actions by stating that all Chinese soldiers during this period were suffering mass starvation and diseases because of logistical difficulties. The UN POWs said that most of the Chinese camps were located near the easily supplied Sino-Korean border and that the Chinese withheld food to force the prisoners to accept the communism indoctrination programs. According to Chinese reports, over a thousand U.S. POWs died by the end of June 1951, while a dozen British POWs died, and all Turkish POWs survived.[21] According to Hastings, wounded U.S. POWs died for lack of medical attention and were fed a diet of corn and millet "devoid of vegetables, almost barren of proteins, minerals, or vitamins" with only 1/3 the calories of their usual diet. Especially in early 1951, thousands of prisoners lost the will to live and "declined to eat the mess of sorghum and rice they were provided"
>>61584379They will be used go destroy FPV drones.
>>61563897Because everyone else realized it was a stupid idea. You can't indirect fire which kill's it's long range fire support utility. It's heavy as balls which means smaller grenade launchers are better at most ranges. It's also a GRENADE launcher so low profile assassinations and staying stealthy is off the table. The grenades being used are also too light for anti-vehicle work and don't have much blast radius.In short, you're better off with a regular battle rifle and some good aim.
>>61564061It's because the things that are made illegal aren't very practical in a real war, so the people signing the treaties don't lose anything by giving them up. That's why chemical weapons are illegal but nuclear weapons aren't.
>>61563955are you just parroting that article from like 2014 from some australian nogunz? the one where the guy claims that the gun was illegal because rounds could be made to detonate inside enemies?
>>61585844It's on par with the China Lake grenade launcher in terms of deathclaw killing ability, the tradeoffs are that it has better range but weighs about 3x as much, in fact it weighs just 2 lbs less than a than a fat man when both are unloaded. If you are using it you've probably taken Demolition Expert and Splash damage along with Heavyweight, and there are 15 round drums for it, so with an Extended Mag upgrade it could allow you to take out multiple Deathclaws before reloading. I think the enemy it'd really shine against would be Cazadors, since with demolition expert + grunt it'd probably be able to 1shot them.Are there any mods that actually add this to New Vegas?
>>61588733there's no reason to take it over the low velocity 25mm APW for anti-cazadore use
>>61563955TLDR i know an older ranger who had one floating around his unit in the early invasion. it was heavy and nobody had the main job of using it so whoever had less shit carried it. its not a war crime, if you saw what was happening over there i wouldn't need to explain shit.
>>61588744The 25mm APW only does 50 damage which can be boosted to 80 with Demolition Expert. So at minimum it'd take 3 shots to kill a Cazador with it, 4 without Demolition Expert. 40mm grenades do 100 per shot (and 30 on direct hits, which this could probably get more reliably), and since I think Grunt would apply to it the total damage for this weapon with perks is probably 200 per hit from splash damage + 30 from the direct hit.
>>61588744the 25mm APW can't even kill recruit legionaries in 1 shot, why the fuck would you use it against Cazadors?
>>61590114they have zero armor and are hard to hit, so you put six 25mm grenades next to them and hope it breaks their wings
>>61586099That's not entirely true. 20mm anti-materiel rifles are a niche market but they do exist.
>>61590146or you drop one or two 40mm grenades near them and rest assured that they'll be dead.
>>61590506a third hand anecdote from Vietnam era SEALs talked about being able to dump all four rounds before the first one even impacted. It's a shame they didn't fix the flaws with that system and keep it around, seems like it really had a lot of potential if they had changed a couple of the aluminum parts for steel to keep the thing from beating itself apart.
>>61563897Could it theoretically be suppressed?
>>61563897what is it used for, and what's the range? we have stuff like this, and spicy ammo for other case uses like this
>>61569529not him, but you can't read anonhe's very clearly stating that we have a retarded obsession with using AR styled lowers for everything because people are too dumb to use anything elseglocks are hugely popular because you fags don't know how to operate a safety lever when stressed and literally dieironically you are proving the point of his post, well done anon, thanks for your cervix
>>61590844theoretically anything can be suppressed. Picrel.>>61590845according to all the literature I can find, it's designed for countersniping. It ostensibly has a range of 2km. I don't believe either claim, I think it's designed to look cool and be fun, since I think the PLA on some level knows that they aren't actually expected to ever fight a war, so their generals at least seem to be having fun with that and doing stupid shit.
>>61578094>The chinks actually developed a spring-loaded optic to prevent TBIs from their malnourished onions-fed conscripts trying to fire a rifleLol, lmao
>>61590873It's for counter-defilade use. It's literally just a chink clone of the XM-25.
>>61590873>It ostensibly has a range of 2kmyea... no fucking way, i mean, you could mortar it... but yea that's some 50 cent bullshitits the ussr all over again, paper tigers all around, but this time we don't need to wait for a collapse for them to be exposed for what they are, every single person on the planet has experience with chinese made goods and knows how crappy they areseriously, half of the shit they ship around the world isn't even designed to work at all, not even talking about mil equipment but everything they make
>>61590905no I think the optic just isn't mounted onto the receiver properly
>>61563897I want to rape
>>61563955>No, the real downside was that the XM25 was illegal to use in war.Not complexity, price tag, weight, etc?
>>61587968that grenade sniper has a slow rate of fire, slow velocity, and can't course-correct.it MIGHT get lucky shooting down one drone, but it's near useless if the drones travels in packs of two or more.
Leave drones to me.
>>61563955>No, the real downside was that the XM25 was illegal to use in war.You misunderstood the story. The US didn't sign any of the prohibitions on weapons systems, although the US military generally abides by them voluntarily. The problem was that the XM-25 was manufactured by HK, and there was a legal dispute over whether that could be construed as the German government allowing the treaty to be broken in Germany. Because of that, a bunch of half-completed guns got stuck in Germany and greatly delayed the program. Also, if I recall correctly it wasn't a violation of the expanding bullets section of the treaty, it had to do with the counter-defilade airburst system allowing the user to shoot at a group of people he couldn't verify to be combatants.
>>61591011I think it actually is spring loaded to prevent it from destroying the glass, that's a hell of a lot of kick. You can see the optic moving in >>61578104 as well.
>>61591128>>61591011the Wikipedia page says the gun has two buffer systems, one in the stock and one for the optic mount.https://wikiless.tiekoetter.com/wiki/Norinco_LG5_/_QLU-11?lang=en>>61590938I've said before in this thread that I think a Type 69 RPG would have filled that role better while being cheaper, lighter, more versatile, and already being in service.
>>61577479It can't be more tedious than reading things from people with a compulsive need to shit on others instead of adding to the conversation. Why do you think this thing is good?
>>61591396it's not good, it's pretty shit, but if you're the one who keeps saying it's 20mm then you're a fucking retard who couldn't spend 2 seconds to look it up. It's available in 35mm and 40mm, not 20mm.
>>61563897What's the range on those things? Rheinmetall has something similar called SSW 40 with 900m range
Wow, that's retarded. From what I've gathered, the XM25 is a fine weapon system, but it's just too damn big and heavy to be anything other than a specialists weapon.When my dad was in Nam, he was issued a CAR-15 and an M79, which together is about 12 pounds give or take. Coming in at 14 pounds, an XM25 gives you some admittedly nifty targeting options, but at the price of a smaller payload, less ammunition, and absolutely no way to defend yourself with anything other than grenades. It's just not worth the tradeoff no matter how you look at it, and that's just comparing it to outdated CAR-15s and M79s. When you consider how streamlined the M203 system is by comparison, it only becomes more obvious that the XM25 just doesn't compare to traditional launchers in terms of all around usefulness.
>>61591106>fires a 3 second burst>takes 30 seconds to reload
>>61590528Didn't they fix some of those issues but at that point interest had disappeared?Way too many such cases.
>>61563931im suprised they havent put the concept on a weapons station and used radar to direct it
>>61591128its prolly spring loaded to stop chinkovitch from losing his eye, but the problem is its going to lead to scope movement and lower the accuracy.
>>61594176The scope ostensibly has a HUD inside of it and corrects for stuff electronically. The scope moving probably doesn't make it *less* accurate. From the Wikipedia page:>To ensure the long-range accuracy, the electro-optical sight system with built-in fire control system is standard issue for the QLU-11. The daylight scope is designated QMD-131, while the night vision version is designated QMV-131.[5] Both scopes feature in-scope HUD, a laser rangefinder, temperature sensor, ammo selection, ballistic calculated reticle, elevation angle sensor, inclination angle sensor, drift correction sensor, self-diagnosis software. The effective range is 1,000 m (3,300 ft) for daylight scope and 800 m (2,600 ft) for night vision scope.[5]
>>61596041None of that will tell the scope where the barrel is pointed if it changes slightly after each shot.
>>61563959Thats a counter sniper rifle not a grenade launcher
>>61563897The XM25?>overpriced, even an AT4 + ammo is cheaper than equivalent gun + ammo>its niche is 99% filled fine by M203/M320>as rad as the concept is, 25mm is just too goddamn small to carry the necessary brains and enough boom to be viable>heavy as hell>bulky as hell>ammo is bulky as hell>mags are bulky as hell for how many rounds are held>removes a rifle from the squad>same XM25 user now going to blow themselves up if used in close range>probably needing lots of retraining tooThey'd have been better off developing an integrated optic that can talk to modified 40mm rounds that can smack onto a standard platform, but nooooo, MUH SPACE AGE MUH FUTUREIt looks like something some cueball in a big office came up with, had an artist draw, and then gave it to engineers with a spec-sheet.>Sir this is completely inefficient->I WANT MY GODDAMN SPACEGUNand now we're here.Fucking managerial types.
>>61597173>>heavy as hell>>removes a rifle from the squadYou don't get the make these claims at the same time since the XM25 weighs a hair less than an M4 with ACOG, PEQ, and M320. It's either the same weight and you lose a rifle or more weight and you don't lose a rifle.>>ammo is bulky as hell>>mags are bulky as hell for how many rounds are heldThe ammo is much lighter and less bulky than 40mm grenades, and single feeding is not an advantage over a magazine.>>probably needing lots of retraining tooHand it to the new guy and he'll just need training, not retraining.I don't know if the XM25 was the future, it has advantages but maybe not enough to overcome the disadvantages. There's no need to lie to make it sound worse than it actually was, though.
>>61597260>and M320.A weapon many would rather run standalone. Anecdotal, but the feedback I've received is the M320 is a good standalone launcher kludged into the role of an underslung launcher.. Underslungs altogether inevitably add weight in the front and making it front-heavier. Even the smaller M203 has many people complaining about that inevitable downside, let along the bigger M320.Speaking of standalone M320s, we already have that. Pic more or less is the M320, except with zero accommodations for underbarrel mounting. No need to work around a barrel or quadrail, so it breaks open from the top rather than the side and the sight sits flat instead of on an offset tower. No need for the stock to be removable, so the stock is mounted lower and the sights dont have to be as high. The result is a svelte pointable weapon with few snag points. A modern iteration would need provisions for sights and rangefinders, but thats no big deal, H&K offered police versions with the rear sight replaced with a holographic thing. Considering the housing in front of the trigger is empty space for the stock to retract into; you could even have the same foregrip as the M320 fold up flush into the receiver.
>>61597341this is just an M79 with a collapsing stock
>>61597341A standalone M320 adds additional weight from the stock and holster, so an XM25 would actually reduce the weight of your guns compared to an M4+M320.
>>61597173>M320>>61597260>M320>>61597341>M320The M320 is pretty much a failed concept, trying to be both an under-barrel grenade launcher and a standalone one at the same time and suffering accordingly. I don't know why we still use this garbage.
>>61597374>I don't know why we still use this garbage.I dug into that and boy oh boy is it a clusterfuck.Basically the army couldn't into rifle grenade with the M-14 so they went away (despite being combat proven in 2 world wars). In vietnam they recon they still need something for the infantry. They came up with the 40mm grenade the MK 18 for vehicles and the M-79 for infantry.Things are going great soldiers love them order are in for a bunch of specialty rounds and even on improving the design of the M79 into the "China lake grenade laucher", then POGs and the MIC look at them and go "we can totally do better than a hand crank machinegun and a wodden pirate gun".And the fact is they can't as history proved it.The M203? It's shoot and pray (while the M-79 it replaced was/is very accurate), it's fine to shoot flares or smokes but if you're actually trying to hit a spider hole or something you're just not gonna.It's still a useful tactical tool but it suck at launching grenades and for a good reason it was designed as a placeholder in the infamous SPIW competition.The Mk 19 to have enough pressure back into the system they had to use other grenades (high pressure) initially for the mounted gun of helicopters. Which is not what wanted the army at all but given the subsequent failure of all the helicopters turreted grenade launchers it was seen as progress.Meanwhile the M79 let alone the M203 couldn't fire those so the quest began to find a replacement to both.Which became the XM25 another POS.And the placeholder is now the M320 which is a poor man M79.Meanwhile the french and israeli (you know the ones that get into scraps all the time and survive on small teams VS mobs) just... kept their rifle grenades.
>>61597355M320s are easier to collapse. >>61597374Because it collapses down into an itty bitty bloop gun that is easy to stash somewhere for the 95% of the time that you don't need it.
>>61596804the laser from the rangefinder might if it's aligned to the barrel. It does supposedly have "self-diagnosis software" after all. Which I'm sure is at least as accurate as self diagnoses for anything else, like autism diagnoses for instance.
the m320 is the biggest meme mistake in small arms ive experienced personally. replacing 203s with a standalone weapon made everyone use two slings or modify their kit to carry a second weapon that bounces around because you cant just use them together. Or you can put the 7 lb (5 without the stupid stock) grenade launcher on a drop-leg. Fucking retarded. Everyone complained about carrying the 203 so they answered by removing any convenience possible.the 320 allows much longer, exotic projectiles like the guided 40 mm rounds to be used.>grunts getting $40k guided HE rounds whenIt is possible to mount underbarrel, but because of the m27s hanguard it will cost ~$400 per mount, and the pistol grip will get in the way of almost everything. (Height under bore lol)The double action trigger is a genuine improvement, along with the chamber cutouts for removing cases. Not for accuracy, but for rate of fire. The problem is, because the weapon isnt underbarrel anymore, it will always take more time to employ unless the shooter has the time to prepare for engagement beforehand. In an ambush it will be much easier to identify 320 grenadiers in the first place because the fuck off size doesnt look anything like a pistol, which would still mark you as a priority target anyway.Almost forgot the PLASTIC SIGHTS which protrude off the side and snag on anything within 5 meters of your body, and are zeroed by guesstimating rotations with screws. Alternatively, there is an expensive mount for the GLS. (Which was already being used with the 203)>heavier>extremely unwieldy>more expensive>directly eliminates advantages of 203 which were why it served for decades in the first place>probably criminally negligent sights>whats that, shoot a grenade? sure, let me simply stow my m27, bring up my 320, flip up the sigh- and they're broken
>>61597468And this is why the XM25 isn't necessarily a failure. There is the problem of taking a rifle out of the squad, though, which may or may not be a problem depending on the squad and the task.
>>61585415>Would this rifle be effective against deathclaws?Only if you find the rare pioneer variant which can only be obtained if you buy the deluxe DLC.
Why did rifle grenades fall out of fashion for some anyway?
>>61597567Less efficient having to carry around long ass rifle grenades and blanks that you have to set up a gun for.
>>61592263fires low velocity 40mm, not high velocity like the chi-com gun>>61592461Theres a world of difference between an m203 lobbing grenades 100 yards inaccurately and a high velocity grenade hitting repeatedly a mile out
>>61563897because using this for school shootings would be hilarious and someone would get the idea of using it for White house shootings. we can't allow that.
>>61597842>fires low velocity 40mm, not high velocity like the chi-com gunthe one with 900m range is 40mm medium velocity
>>61597865Sounds not very affordable for that purpose though.
>>61563897Because direct fire grenade launchers are inferior to indirect fire grenade launchers in almost every way. What the militaries around the world really right now is an MGL that is lighter and more compact for carry than Mk19, but with a bigger capacity and faster fire rate than the M203, and can finally be a dedicated primary arm of its own instead of just a sidearm. Take the XM25 and rip off the bulky rangefinder, the magazine, and the arming system. Make it belt-fed through the top like a SAW. Reduce the weight even more by reducing the range, 600m is unnecessary, 250m maximum is fine. Finally, add an underbarrel DI 5.56 with a 20-round or less magImagine an XM29 with all the stupid shit taken off of it.
>>61597173>removes a rifle from the squadYeah, in the same sense that issuing a machine gun removes a rifle from a squad. Sure, you're losing a rifleman, but you're gain a capability that is potentially far more valuable than that rifleman ever was. IMO, the ability to (to quote the airborne guys that tested the XM25) "end firefights before they start" is far more useful than having an extra rifle on the line when said firefight does start.
>>61597971>15 pounds>Recoil equivalent to an average 12 gauge>5 round magazine>Shoots the same 30mm grenades as the slavshit clone of the Mk.19>Relies on space magic tech rejected by the Soviet military for not being robust enoughHow are the krauts not swarming all over this?
>>61597971>Finally, add an underbarrel DI 5.56 with a 20-round or less magwhy in gods name would you need a rifle attached to your grenade launcher. just shoot your grenades at whateverOr add some shotgun rounds for indoor fights
>>61598110>5 round magazineI think I got this wrong, it looks like there's two versions, one with a 6-round box magazine underneath and one with a 3-round hopper magazine above that lets you single-load shells like a shotgun.
>>61598123>why in gods name would you need a rifle attached to your grenade launcher. just shoot your grenades at whateverBecause if it is an indirect GL and you see an enemy with a rifle but nobody else in your squad does you will die because your grenades travel way, way slower than bullets. And even if you have a direct fire GL you still die because 700fps is still slow as fuck compared to the 2,900fps the incoming 5.45s are traveling at. Even AK-9s can drop you like a sack of potatoes over twice as fast as an XM-25 can. Soldiers didn't hate the XM-25 because it was heavy they said they hated because it was heavy AND IT REPLACES THEIR M4 in their kit, meaning if they ever go 1-on-1 against someone with an AR/AK they lose the draw and die every time. Primary grenade launchers need to be either nearly as fast as bullets, which is ridiculous, or they need to have an overbarrel or underbarrel rifle alongside it. >shotgun>in warBruh>>61598149Belt-fed imo is far superior to box magazines in terms of compactness when it comes to grenades. Cartridge magazines are tiny but grenade magazines have to be HUGE. There is no point when you can just carry a belt around, M60 style, with as many grenades as you can handle. I want to see them scale down the Mk19 to be handheld like they did when they made the Browning 1919 in .50 BMG but in the other direction this time
>>61598292>Soldiers didn't hate the XM-25 because it was heavy they said they hated becauseTo be clear, the 101st said they loved it and it did everything perfect and sucked their dicks too and they wanted more. It's specifically the Rangers who hated it.
>>61597971>Finally, add an underbarrel DI 5.56 with a 20-round or less magI thought they tried that before.
>>61598292>Because if it is an indirect GL and you see an enemy with a rifle but nobody else in your squad does you will die because your grenades travel way, way slower than bullets. And even if you have a direct fire GL you still die because 700fps is still slow as fuck compared to the 2,900fps the incoming 5.45s are traveling at. Even AK-9s can drop you like a sack of potatoes over twice as fast as an XM-25 can.This is fucking retarded. Almost everything else involved a fight matters more than projectile speed vs the opponent.
>>61564061>I'll never understand why certain things are illegal and others aren't.
>>61598370>you still die because 700fps is still slow as fuck compared to the 2,900fps the incoming 5.45s are traveling at.what the fuck is this nonsense?
>>61563897because it's stupid, and we could have had something way better. but it was ahead of it's time.
>>61598339They did. But the XM29's grenades weren't strong enough in testing which is why the XM25 grenades are different. Also it was bigger than it needed to be. >>61598370>>61598458If your first XM25 shot doesn't hit the combatant, you die, and if your first XM25 shot does hit, you can still die, of no fault of your own, because the 5.45 already killed you while your grenade was flying through the air. Usually projectile speed isn't that important but in this case it is because of how much fucking delay there is between pulling the trigger and impact. What do you not get?
>>61585347type 69 my beloved <3
>>61578142what cunt and camo is that?
>>61598521Why does the heavier barrel have a lower cyclical rate of fire?
>>61598818probably recoil operated, a heavier barrel has to overcome more inertia to move backwards to unlock the bolt.
>>61599345Oh, that makes sense. I had assumed it was some sort of gas operation and they changed something to limit the rate of fire of the heavier one for some reason.
>>61598522flight time of projectile is irrelevant in the timeline of a firefight my dude
>>61598621>cuntrheinmetall employee, presumably germ>camoI think it's concamo green?
