Whether you think an event like this will occur, or is even possible is irrelevant. This is just a pure discussion of the 22lr's viability in different scenarios. Long story short, finally got a long time friend into shooting and he purchased a Mossberg 702 and a Taurus TX22. Thought they would make great beginner guns, but now he claims he has everything he needs. I disagree, but it got me thinking about how he would do if something that he fears came true. He has taken my advice on many other things>he purchased a bunch of mags>he has a bunch of "hotter" 22 ammo and shoots it>he goes shooting with me once a week>he does dry fire practice at home to improve his shooting (at least he says he does, and his shooting has improved)Does someone with a 22lr rifle and pistol (and is proficient with both) really have everything they need to survive?
>>61652159Yes. You can easily take any north american animal deer-sized or small with a .22lr, and it is perfectly fine for self defense. If your teotwawki fantasy involves being some sort of one-man spec ops team fighting squads of heavily armed and armored enemies, you are retarded. A .22lr for subsistence hunting and self defense is fine. People don't respond well to getting shot with any caliber of weapon, especially when you mag dump 10-12 rounds into their chest/groin/head. If you really think your friend needs more, get him a nice o/u or semiauto sporting shotgun so he can clay shoot with you, and throw in a few boxes of buck/slugs. I do this as a housewarming gift for all my friends. Now I have a pool of people I can invite to trap shoot/ dove hunt with me, and I know that if something bad did happen like a riot or natural disaster, a half dozen men with shotguns will be there to back me up.
>>61652159I hate consoomerism and think minimalism is a good default, and I'm going to ignore dumb LE SHTF larp but just purely normal self defense: no, I would not count on 22lr myself for self-defense, and definitely not out of a pistol.- 22lr is rimfire, not centerfire, which means it's just inherently more likely to fail to fire. That's not some problem in its normal use, it's fundamental to what makes it so delightfully cheap. But for sd it's an extra risk.- 22lr out of pistol length barrel is actually, genuinely getting into statistically significant reduction in effectiveness. Out a 3" barrel, something like 27gr CCI CPHP will be going about 900fps. That's only 48.5 ftlbs, just 65J. That's REALLY quite low. Not that it can't still potentially kill, but that's really not much room for error. It's made for rifles.Of course at the end of the day anything is better then nothing by a mile and he sounds like a serious dude who is actually practicing which is more then can be said for most. Frankly it's probably fine, and it probably won't ever come up anyway. But wouldn't be my choice. That said I'd just say your piece then leave it and let him either get more into guns himself, or not. No need to be pushy.I will mention as well there are a few quality of life things he might someday care about. 22lr is quite dirty, and neither the monos nor the subs work great and/or are finnicky. If he decides at some point he cares about suppression and lead exposure might be a factor. If he gets into hunting he'll legally need more in many places for certain game regardless of theory, and obviously if he was interested in trying out game fowl or just the fun of skeet he'll need a shotgun. No rifle works for that. But none of that is some day 1 requirement. Most of us learned on 22lr and had it for many years as our only gun before getting other stuff, and we still use it.
I hate to be the one to tell you, but your guns are about 1000 times more likely to be stolen or used in suicide than ever in self defense. And in your fantastical SHTF meme scenario, it is more realistic that you will give up your guns for medicine or food than ever do some cool movie shit like raid a compound or defend against some sort of siege.
Why do people think a disaster will involve killing a lot of people? that's exceedingly shortsighted and historically illiterate. it's much more effective to work with other people for mutual support.
>>61652538>>61652677this
>>61652677It’s all a LARP. Maladjusted dudes with pent up frustration who think they’re the main character because they put 200 hours into Far Cry. I have as much fun as the next guy with my guns but I don’t have to create laughable hypotheticals for why I want another gun with a niche purpose.
>>61652731>200 hours into Far Cryrookie numbers>Maladjustedyes
>>61652159>SCRAMBLES >THE >BRAIN
>>6165215922lr for plinking and small game yesfor self defense no
>>61652927a 22lr does more damage in the human body than a .50 cal sniper
>>61652961Yeah but if a .50 cal round even gets close to you it can take your arm off
>>61652970that and suck your eyeballs clean out of your skull
Pigs are close to humans and I’ve slaughtered dozens with a 22 to the head from a 4” revolver. It’s perfect it rarely exits I had maybe 2 that i found outside the skull and I think they went down the spinal column maybe. Also in 22 a revolver is way better than an auto. For reliability but also it’s way funnier to shoot and reload than jamming 22 into gritty ruger mk mags.
>>61652654Every man needs a good rifle and pistol. But I agree. If I end up in a trench line using it for defense, I really fucked up. It becomes the last resort. The fantasy of outfitting your group with guns for self defense against roving bands of raiders is just not the most likely scenario. The most likely is you have a tight nit community which trades goods among each other. Learn a skill. Farming, alternative power, oil/kerosene, cattle, mechanics, food production. Find what people are going to need. Learn the lessons from other countries that have gone through similar events.
>>61652961>>61652970At least those are all real rounds, unlike 9mm.
I mean in terms of viability .22lr is likely going to be the round to dispatch small game and vermin in any communal garden. It has had successes in self defense against people. Its a good round and platform to teach others how to shoot and is quite affordable. While versatile, its not the end all be all. Rimfire isn't as reliable or shelf stable in non controlled environments - I had a box of .22s I left in the trunk of my car for 2 years and when I tried to shoot them, many were not going off without a second or third strike. I had the same brand and lot I kept in my ammo trunk and shot them through the same gun and had significantly less failures.Center fire has reliability, reloadability with most conventional boxer primed ammo, and power behind it. While the AR or some center fire handguns might be the way to go, for something "SHTF" the next common gun and munition that's easy to store would be a 12 gauge shotgun. 12 gauges are widely available, the load variety can go from doves to moose out of the same gun. I'd say to expand his horizons on a budget, a decent 12 gauge should work - Maverick/Mossberg 88/500/590, Stoeger Condor, or Benelli Nova should perform the task.If he likes to take a step up, in conventional arms - getting a striker fired 9mm or an AR wouldn't be a bad step either. So long as he is training, having a gun is better than being unarmed.
>>61652159As a paramedic I saw a pt who was shoot, by a good shot, all around the chest about 11-12 times with a .22 rifle and he died before we got him to the hospital. Like any round, it's all about shot placement, but that guy was swiss cheese and he bled out into his lungs in like 15 minutes and wasn't walking around after the fact. It's a really good round to have a few thousand of, in a sealed container with desiccant, you can't really reload them but you can keep the brass, and with the proper facilities can use it to remake brass for your other weapons, it'll kill dog sized game pretty easily and it weighs like nothing, so, go for it. I don't recommend it in a pistol configuration for anything but killing soda bottles as the recoil mitigation you can do for rapid followup like with a rifle, as well as the markedly slower projectile really makes it iffy, the phrase "they're all more accurate than we are" doesn't really apply to a crappy .22 revolver.
>>61652159Are AR7's any good?
>>61656124In terms of shooting they work. In terms of what they're designed for, haven't messed with one yet. The mags are a pain in the ass from my experience loading them. Could've just been my sample size of 1, so make your judgements with your own. They break down and store nicely and are easy to clean.
>>61656137Thanks, they go on sale all the time where I live and have been thinking of getting one.
>>61656154Honestly for how cheap I've seen em go at times, its one of those "For the helluvit" purchases.https://www.familyfirearms.com/product/henry-h002b-u.s.-survival-ar-7-22-lr-81-16.13-black-right-handI'd just say test the mags out a bit and its a cozy pack pal.
>>61652159>buy cmmg 22 conversion>walthah ppq .22>shoot almost exclusively at steel 25 yds away>4 to 500 rounds of .22 each trip.>only shoot 2 mags of 5.56 at 300 yds.>only shoot 1 box 9mm at 5 yds>mog everyone.Re: this post:Dear trying,At work, we have in ground pools. When the ducklings hatch, the mother will take them into the pools to teach them to swim. Invariably, one duck will be too stupid to figure out how to exit the pool. Normally, an alligator or some other predator will come along and eat the duckling. The dumb ass duckling's inferior genes would not spread. With no predators, and humans such as myself tasked to rescue the duckling, nature cannot strike a balance. Your friend is that duckling.
>>61656124Yes? It depends on what you want it for but all around it’s a good gun.
>>61656196Just wanted it as general plinker that can occasionally be used for pest control (coyotes and skunks) and would be good for emergency hunting.
>>6165215922 is not truly sealed and will get fucked by moisture or the thin ass brass will just get corroded through. Not good for SHTFIf you want ammo that can be stored for decades, get milsurp in spam cans, with sealed primers. Paint the cans in rust proof paint if you want to be extra sure.
>>61656218AR7 or Ruger 10/22 takedown. I'd say the 10/22 since it feels better and has more purchase when shooting.
>>61656223What the hell are you talking about? I'm still shooting 22lr I inherited from my grandpa he bought in the 90s. No issues with any of it, and he kept it in his garage on a shelf in it's original boxes.
>>61656397Improperly stored, .22lr is more susceptible to damage. But in most cases, people store their ammo properly. Anon is just being an overthinking retard.
>>61656124Aren't these things Jam-O-Matics? I guess they're kinda cool, but it feels like they have an incredibly small use case. When I go backpacking, I just carry a heritage rough rider on my hip or in my bag. Does pretty much the same thing, and the exposed barrel on the AR7 probably means accuracy wouldn't be all that much better. I can also carry 22mag in that, unlike the AR7. Cheaper price also means I don't have to worry fucking it up or losing it.
>>61652159>.22>dry fire practice>friends firing pin breaks when shit hits the fan
>>61656425>>61656397you niggas really think storage conditions are gonna be great post SHTF?
>>61658434Because ammo cans disappear?
>>61656669Never heard of these?
>>61656218Just get a cheap 22 semi auto at Walmart then
>>61652159gonna do what with it? shoot whole gangs in the leg? aim for the eye every single time?>b-but the LR is better than just a .22yeah, it has more power than a slingshot, congrats>purchased a TaurusGod you're such a bad friend for letting your friend buy that piece of shit from a shitty company that is pro gun control and makes shitty gunsIt's cheap, sure. Can it stop anyone? no. if people can take multiple 9mm and keep going, the .22LR probably wont do you any favors in a self defense situation and even less if you need to hunt and possibly move from place to placelooters in florida will sometimes have better shit and as soon as they hear your pea shooter and realize that you dont have a good gun, you're done, a SHTF situation would be way worse than simple looters after a natural disaster or a crackhead entering your home at night, stop watching dumb movies and series
>>61652159>>61652159yes. its not ideal for combat but its not as cucked as the average euro who only has a broom
>>61652677good luck working to create mutual support with the nigger hordes retard
>>61652677Because all it takes is for one nog to get killed by cops for an entire city full of nogs to chimp the fuck out. Imagine what they’d do if literally anything actually happened that would prevent police from being able to effectively make arrests. I appreciate your optimism, but you’re a fucking idiot.
>>616557789sillymeter literally bounces off a carhart work jacket
>>61662142>>61662236>AIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE THE NIGGERS ARE GONNA GET MEhave you tried not being one? i'm white so i can't relate.
>>61652159>but now he claims he has everything he needs. I disagree, but it got me thinking about how he would do if something that he fears came true. I'd argue that a shotgun of some kind would be an invaluable addition to his loadout. Doesn't matter if it's a pump, double barrel, 20 ga or 12 ga, they're very flexible weapons and would be invaluable for subsistence hunting or clearing buildings.IMO as soon as you start throwing other armed assailants into the mix, the whole ".22 is all you need" plan falls apart. Your average AR-15 will easily outrange it, and even at close range you'll have lousy barrier penetration, not to mention if they have body armor it's going to be a much greater challenge to knock them out of a fight.
>>61656124they are kinda ass just get a 10/22
>>61652159>Thought they would make great beginner guns, but now he claims he has everything he needsNeed? Sure. You can kill an attacker with 22lr, you can hunt just about anything if you're good enough.But I don't base survival decisions off of minimum requirements.
>>61652302>>61652538>>61652654>>61652677>>61652682>>61652731>>61662287>Getting exceptionally offended because someone mentioned the primary purpose of civilian firearms, which is large scale combat with hostile armed menRaiding niggers, go back where you came from.
>>61662142City dweller problems. My county is 98% white.
>>61662595What are gun laws like in Iceland?
>>61652159This is fun ammo for children to train on and to fuck around with at the range. Anything you can kill with .22lr is easier to trap. Instead of carrying all that weight in a second gun and bricks of ammo for it, carry snares and trapping equipment. I mean a fucking slingshot is probably better than this joke of a round. You also don't alert anyone with traps and slings. Hilarious thay retards are hoarding this thinking they're going to be shooting rats every day for 30 years.
>>61663248>I mean a fucking slingshot is probably better than this joke of a round.You almost had me there.
20 million new invaders came in the past 3 years. they absolutely will be your problem
>>61659157What do suppositories have to do with this?
>>61662142I live on an island that is over 87% white. we have more Asians than niggers.
>>61652159Almost. .22LR is absolutely great but I really would feel more confident in such a situation if I had at least 1 higher caliber handgun and 1 higher caliber rifle, and maybe a 12 gauge shotgun as well.
>>61663379Says the guy that would never carry a .22 for bear defense.
>>61652302You are fucking based
>>61652159Whenever this topic is brought up I think of a story an anon told on here some time ago.>be anons great-great grandfather>get laid off during the great depression>have to feed 5 kids on basically no money>has a single shot 22lr rifle and plenty of rounds>go into the nearby woods every second day or so and walk out with a few wood pigeons>this put meat on the table for his family until times became good againThis is probably the most realistic SHTF use for a 22lr, or any rifle in general. And is also why I own an accurate takedown Winchester M1906.
>>61663752That's a pretty nice setup anon, did you make it yourself? I kind of want to make something similar for my CZ 457.I definitely agree that in a scenario where everything goes south and you've got woodlands nearby, hunting with a .22 is a completely viable option.
>>61663756Didn't add the sling but the rest I did. Thanks, Aliexpress has a bunch of cheap wooden beads and shit for decorating guns.
>>61661990>stop watching dumb movies and seriesYou should follow your own advice. 22lr is not the deadliest but it is deadly. It can and has been used in self defence thousands of times. You're not going to win wars with it, but it will kill if needed.
>>61662514sure thing pal
>>61662514>primary purpose of civilian firearms>large scale combat with hostile armed menhi larp-kun thanks for the joining the thread now name the times this has happened in america since the invention of smokeless powder we'll wait
>>61662595I wouldn't know I live in the rural midwest.
>>61663752based 22 enthusiast
I crunched some numbers and decides .38 special is superior for SHTF because reloading is far easier and you can also make subsonic quiet shots from leverguns.
>>61663723florida keys? youre gonna have to worry about cubans
>>61663752whos your leather guy? i like the stock cover with ammo loops
>>61663681N-no you
>>61666170Ebay.
>>61652159Every one of you mother fuckers in this thread needs to read pic related.
>>61666164there are a lot more islands in Florida than the keys.
>>61652159My first purchase was a bolt action Ruger American Rimfire and a Ruger MkIV 22/45 Tactical + cans + optics + 3000 ammos. No regret really, because great all around survival. But I still bought 12 gauge and 9 mil after.
>>61667434Anon that story has been a known fake for years.The Rhodesian war is more relevant to what's coming everywhere there are whites. Total, Global, Rhodesification.
>>61663730A bow and arrows is better than a slingshot and I wouldn't carry one for bear defense either you goalpost shifting faggot.
>>61667636I've been eyeing that particular ruger American for quite some time now
>>61662142/thread
>>61652159.22 is a fantastic option in various SHTF scenarios because of its overall versatility in hunting and defense. It's is not anywhere close to something I'd want for conflict, but it's low investment with hunting, and getting hit by a .22 hurts like a bitch despite its lacking fatality.>>61652538 is right in describing reliability problems, but this does not dismiss the role .22 plays in supporting a homesteading operation..22 is extremely limited and I consider it best for hunting small game, which is going to be more available to hunt in a world where food is scarce.The last thing I want to do in SHTF is hunt another human, and I'll be damned if I do it with a .22, but it has a place and should be readily available in any gun owners collection for how capable it is for what it is. It is not the backbone, but the ribcage.
>>61652654>axschually
>>61652159.22lr is awesome>cheap, deadly>carry a lot of it>best round for target practice>hollow points expand close up out of a pistol, 100y out of rifles Check out the keltec p17, rossi rs-22 (just to save money) and aguila 60gr sniper subsonic.One of the like 31, 33gr expands best from a pistol, I don't remember which.>>61656124also these, and the bullpup 10/22 stock
>>61669548>Aguila SSS40-50cpr before shipping. Apparently they're moving their plant according to a reply in an old thread. So if you find some grab it because availability is FUCKED right now for their specialty shit.https://ammoseek.com/ammo/22lr/Aguila-rimfire-60grains
>>61665019>>61664762Post gun with timestamp
>>61670559post your oper8or gear (lmao) with timestamp
>>61670559>>61671683yeah honestly i'd rather see your larp gear
>>61670559"Post gun" is not a deflection when you're the one post noguns retarded shit and refusing to answer simple questions. The most important purposes of civilian firearm ownership are:1. Having fun.2. Hunting.3. Simple self defense vs typical criminals.If you live in some urban shit hole where you are not allowed to have fun nor hunt then feel free to put #3 at the top.
>>61652159>Whether you think an event like this will occur, or is even possible is irrelevant.It really is not though>>61652159>This is just a pure discussion of the 22lr's viability in different scenarios.yeah its great for target shooting and pest ontrol and small game hunting where you don't want to spoil meat. >>61652159>He has taken my advice on many other thingsI've owned 22s since before youw ere born and if you want the best accuracy and use from them shoot subsonic in a bolt action>>61652159>>he has a bunch of "hotter" 22 ammo and shoots itThat's very bad advise.>>61652159>>he goes shooting with me once a weekI would't go shooting with you. >>61652159>>he does dry fire practice at home to improve his shootingMore terrible advise.>>61652159>Does someone with a 22lr rifle and pistol (and is proficient with both) really have everything they need to survive?Cancer? Divorce? Bankruptcy? Traffic accident? Spouse or child dying? Job loss? Unemployment? Lawsuit?
>>61662514>the primary purpose of civilian firearms, which is large scale combat with hostile armed menIts not though. They are mainly for sport and designed for it whether a target discipline or hunting. If they were for killing people they would be optimized in caliber for that. They are not. They are optimized for shooting rabbits or pheasants, or shooting little tiny groups at 50 yards, or shooting deer (most deer rifles are bolt actions in cals like 270 which is perfect for deer but have maybe 4 shot mags).
>>61662514>the primary purpose of civilian firearms is a scenario that only exists in my head
>>61671971Actually, didnt you see there were riots on a few blocks of a few cities 4 years ago? This points to the necessity of having a delta force load out in my 4runner when I drive to the grocery store, because large scale combat with big, hairy, sweaty, strong men could happen anywhere and at any time
>>61671824>>he has a bunch of "hotter" 22 ammo and shoots it>That's very bad advise.Shooting mini-mags, Winchester Wildcat, and Stangers is bad "advise" to you? >>he goes shooting with me once a week>I would't go shooting with you.Ditto, wouldn't go with you either.>>>he does dry fire practice at home to improve his shooting>More terrible advise.Dry fire practice (shooting by the numbers) with snap caps is a regular training aid recommend and practiced by major marksmanship programs like appleseed. It's a great way to familiarize yourself with your firearm, proper prone and sitting position, and sight alignment at home. If you actually owned a gun (or spoke English at a 2nd grade level) you'd understand that.
>>61672172oh yeah so true, if those riots happened in my city then i'd probably die because i only have a .22.
>>61669627alternatively you could shoot 40gr out of the keltec, it has a threaded barrel.
>>61672657
>>61671971>>61672172>>61671836>>61671815>>61671730>>61671683>No gun postedThat's what I fucking thought, raiding fags.
>>61675778>no larp gear postedare you larping as a larper?
>>61661990>>61669129
.22lr is so based some semi-rich future Mountain Penguin once went inna woods in Alaska and lived solely on game meat shot with the 800rds he took with im, until the all-protein-diet-poisoning killed him ~10 months later.Have gun, can travel.
Hard to say something bad about a round that you can fill a medium sized pill bottle with and have enough ammo to live off game for a month innawoods.
>>61677609So he only ate rabbit (and maybe squirrel)? No fat? Did he not know any edible plants? IIRC you can eat pine buds (the really light green tips of the branches) though that's mainly a spring thing. Still, pine nuts too.
>>61665180If you have a threaded levergat. Those aren't super common.
>>61676440Sorry nothing works after you've been exposed as a noguns fag.
>>61662142>nigger hordes>I don't know who is nigging who anymore
>>61667434Everybody calls that story a fake whenever it is posted and then just ignores it despite the fact that even if it was actually fake everything in it is completely plausible and they should really still give it some thought.What isn't fake though...https://www.cbsnews.com/news/blackwater-down/
if the guns reliably fire it suppressed then you can have a lot of ammo on your person and do ninja kills from 100 yards
>>61684924the only nogunz here is you
>>61686170the world is a nuanced place my friend
