>What is Exalted?An epic high-flying role-playing game about reborn god-heroes in a world that turned on them.Start here:http://theonyxpath.com/category/worlds/exalted/>That sounds cool, how can I get into it?Read the 3e core book (link below). For mechanics of the old edition, play this tutorial:http://mengtzu.github.io/exalted/sakuya.htmlIt’ll get you familiar with most of the mechanics.>Gosh that was fun. How do I find a group?Roll20 and the Game Finder General here on /tg/. good luck>Resources for Third Edition>3E Core and Splatshttps://www.mediafire.com/folder/b54o6teut3fx6/Exalted_3e>Errata for Third Editionhttps://docs.google.com/document/d/1n3ooTmopm3CBxW5jwPp1761xsaIccea-5XIhVM_PQEc/edit>Other Ex3 Resourceshttps://pastebin.com/fG1mLMdu>Resources for Older Editionshttps://pastebin.com/BXSGuFdQ>Current Quixalted Extended QE Version (Fanmade Supplement)https://files.catbox.moe/rjgmo5.pdf>Optional Quixalted Exaltshttps://www.mediafire.com/file/jg86yrewnhx2ov3/QE_Reject3eExaltHomebrew.pdf/file>4thchan Edition (4.2E)https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XqjkwQIR38ov7uZVSZGpcjI0QCPIiFaQkVosZVlhGH8/>Exalted Demake/Black Vault (Now with updates):https://pastebin.com/Tt1PjuYthttps://pastebin.com/qHRW9N51>collection of Exalted Hackshttps://pastebin.com/gtZnycJs>stuff that might be interestinghttps://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/the-exalted-thread-with-no-original-ideas.317216/Last thread: >>92776182 TQ: Outside your own homebrew, what fan material do you or your group use?
>>92824869Demake, but also Glory Overwhelming when I was running 3e. Glorious Solar Ghosts are almost always integrated from here into my Underworld, but we rarely run into them because nobody wants to go to the Underworld for anything but avoiding natural barriers and fast travel. I spooked my party pretty good one time with a handful of ghosts doing a cluedo possession game among their ship crew and now nobody wants to chance it.
Is there any reason to come back to this general anymore?
>>92825018Demake updates, and sometimes people are willing to rationally debate questionable setting elements and describe why they swing one way or another, or how they resolve a questionable plot element - stuff like whether humans in Exalted are stronger than humans IRL and what that means for the setting and how you can render it, or what Sidereals/Lunars/Infernals are up to, or how quickly / effectively the Wyld Hunt works and how that can effect you as Anathema, or bringing up ideas they've used to fill in the huge blank spaces in, for example, the Underworld. I also use it to fact-check.In other words, nah.
>>92825018Not really. I come here out of habit, mostly, because checking /exg/ has been a part of my daily routine for something like 12 years.
For Solar games set on the Blessed Isle, do you guys think it's worth taking artifact armor? And if so, how do you justify/hide it without spending charms on the Resistance tree that lets you banish it to Elsewhere?
>>92825486>For Solar games set on the Blessed Isle, do you guys think it's worth taking artifact armor?Depends on the build and narrative, as always. There's a stark difference between you having artifact armor while pretending to be a Dragonblood with perfect disguise charms vs wearing armor while acting like you're deep in the Threshold and flaring for anything.>And if so, how do you justify/hide it without spending charms on the Resistance tree that lets you banish it to Elsewhere?Any number of ways, but I would expect any of them to hold up to more than surface-level scrutiny. If any Dragonblood socialite or investigator is looking at you and doing more than throwing out a casual excellency to see what happens I wouldn't expect any amount of bullshit to keep you covered for long. I'd also expect it to be just as worrisome that your face is on wanted posters - and if you were using perfect disguises, I'd be worried about your disguise's face being on wanted posters, and that the wanted posters had been sent out before you'd even decided what the disguise would look like.Life on the Blessed Isle is hard for Solars. Carrying around artifacts means more significant people look at you. Significant people looking at you makes life harder.
>>92825486Sometimes, having something as simple as a big wagon or some barrels will be enough. If you have even a slightly inclined person with Craft (doesn't have to be a Twilight), you can figure that out. When against Dragonblooded opposition, that's when you'll have to start getting creative.>>92825018The fanbrew updates and story times. Sometimes I come here and inflict a thought I have on this thread.
>>92824869>Outside your own homebrew, what fan material do you or your group use?Recently we added DB Ero Charms for our campaign.https://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/exalted/dragon-blooded/1232776-3e-dragonblooded-ero-charms
>>92825996>This was originally made and posted when he was in my game.>Game was made with randoms joiners from a /tg/ gamefinder ad>First time playing Exalted.>First time GMing.>First time playing a pen-and-paper RPG at all.>First ERP was during this gameI actually ended up banning ERP in every game afterwards, because people being too horny burned that game to the ground. Admittedly getting squidged into short sessions due to timezone issues and one of the players going nuts harassing another player had a bit to do with it too.I would not be roleplaying today if sandact was not as good of a person as he is.
>>92825062Humans in exalted are definitely stronger than irl humans and longer lived too as the years in creation are longer yet a 15 year old in creation is the same as an irl 15 year old.
>>92825486Solars can create temporary artifacts out of their own anima so I would advice using them.And being a night caste.
>>92826738>Solars can create temporary artifacts out of their own anima so I would advice using them.Those charms are all pretty late and eat up a lot of valuable charm slots.
>>92826751>This nigga is using 3eDamn
>>92826774nta but that's still true in every other edition. I mean, 'late', in that it's late for chargen, but still.
>>92826781You can get them out of the gate in all the systems that matter Demake/Essence/Quixalted
>>92826738>>92826751Consider grabbing Elsewhere charms like Summoning The Loyal Steel or Hauberk Summoning Gesture.
>>92826792I don't know about QE because I don't play it and it didn't click for me when I read through it, but in Demake Hauberk-Summoning Gesture and Immortal Armory of the Sun are one dot out of your starting nine dots of Charms and competing with some really good stuff (also Hauberk-Summoning Gesture requires you have armor anyway, there is no Glorious Solar Plate equivalent in Demake - closest imo is either HSG or Iron Skin Concentration), and while in Essence Glorious Solar Arsenal is only a single charm it takes two motes out of five starting motes to summon both weapons and armor over two simple actions and much more importantly would be one out of only four chargen charms.
>>92826792explain the methods in which you would do it in QE to prove you are not a falseflagger.
>>92826883>Essence Correct but the point is staying hidden in the blessed isle and as I understand the charm you get to make both the weapon and armor as you please, so as long as you follow the artifact rules so they can have up to 4 other tags that you get to freely choose.The one thing I'll concede is that their anti creature of darkness powers may not be as useful in the isle.Unless you manage to get something that extends what can be considered a creature of darkness.
>>92826924I would need to re-read it but I'm sure it can be done with the supernatural Way.
>>92827035>>92826924wait I found it here:minor supernatural way let's you "attack as if having a Weapon" it can be seen as you creating a weapon and then you just add the paced way for the construct to last longer.
>>92827070>>92827035>>92826924>>92826883NTA but in QE there's two ways I can think of to do it to do it but it requires two charms or perhaps two traits to do Supernatural more than once in a charm.Supernatural 3 to have a Supernatural 1 effect to last for a scene, then Supernatural again to improve that first charm with Gift Points so that it can be modelled as an actual artefact. Some might want that to be a Supernatural + Paced (in Turns) charm instead, but I think keeping it to a Scene is within the spirit of it.
>>92825486just take Jade armor; Solars are Resonant with it
>>92825018Pretty much what >>92825650 said here>Sometimes I come here and inflict a thought I have on this thread.If I have a question or idea I'll bring it up, though half the time it's inane (like would Adorjan charms work with bicycle or other human muscle powered machinery) or get ignored like my once every 2-3 month request if anyone knows any homebrew for Alchecmical Elder charms I could stealOther than that I mostly just hang out on the off chance there's ideas I can steal for my own games or neat lore I didn't know about gets mentioned
>>92829267Are you sure about that?
I've had Dragon Kings on the brain recently, and I'm wondering what would be the best way to implement them into QE. Paths are weird and don't work well in the system, but it being step-based is important thematically.
>>92824869Is there any fucking homebrew that's not stuck with the faggoty ass Crowns for Infernals instead of the objectively cooler Yozi charm cascades?
>>92835489Other than all of the homebrew yozi cascades? I assume by Crowns you're talking about ExWoD/Demake's rendition of them - which I should point out, are based in Yozi charms. Cascades assumes charm prerequisites though, and I don't think many full system homebrews have those anymore.I'm pretty sure what you're asking for is 2e. That's basically homebrew fanfic 1e so it fits.
>>92824869How would you give the concept of Amazons an Exalted-style twist?
>>92836897Small independent all-female nation lead by its Dragon-Blooded somewhere South-EastThey kidnap men they find with desirable tastes.They enjoy the patronage of a local deity, to whom they sacrifice any male births they have because it's jealous of all men or something. In exchange the god helps them protect the land and preserve their sovereignty, even using the Ride charm to fuse with the current queen if the situation is truly dire (such as when a celestial censor shows up)
>>92824869Demake Martial arts and Sorcery updated to the new system
>>92837221The Wyld Hunt is so fucking scary in this version of Demake. Your Dodge/Block are super important and take multiple scenes to recover, so if the Hunt can arrange two or even three somewhat serious fights in a day you're pretty much going to be screwed.
>>92836897Brides of Ahlat exist and they're nominally aligned with House Cathak.
So a question about ExWoD.How would you describe Banes as? Gods that have gone mad and rogue after the collapse of Creation or another type of spirit entirely?
>>92838160I go with another type. It's clear gods have degenerated in some way. If anything, they're more like god/elemental hybrids.
>>92837221>this guy will NEVER EVER just do 1e but updated
>>92837104Doesn't even need really to be a jealous patron diety. Just a corrupt one who found a group willing to just up and offer an enormous sacrifice to it. Now the team of a nerdy Sidereal and boisterous Infernal need to work together to fight the matriarchy.
>>92838708I was trying to stay true to how deities are usually depicted in ancient mythologies, especially eastern ones. And an ugly male god jealous of all other men, or a goddess scorned by a jilted lover or such demanding the death of all men is absolutely something I can see happening in ancient greece or china
>empress exclusively snubbed berit>berit was the only black scion of the empress that we know ofSo Scarlet Empress is a fucking chud.
>>92838438What would you put in a 1e update? Change defense so that you can only use parry or dodge but not both against one attack, put in a social system, throw in some generalised excellencies, update the now-outdated excellencies into real charms, and then what? Personally, I'd add in a Demake-alike sorcerous workings system but otherwise leave mote-based sorcery in place, and try my best to convert 1e's charms into a dot-based system akin to ExWoD or Demake, but after that I think I'm completely done.
>>92839119Using Demake's simpler combat structure (less charm combo autism) would also be great.
>>92838160I assume the Wyrm is the Yozi after another few rounds of degeneration and cannibalistic incest. Banes are therefore demons. Which is supported slightly by canon in First Edition core which refers to Demons as Banes in multiple places.
>>92835489Charm cascades suck for what they are. They’re a cool concept in regards to evolutionary pathways building on themselves, but they shackle Infernals to linear paths of development and the game to charm trees which are dogshit which is why every new Exalted homebrew gets rid of them.
>>92838909Unironically what would be her place in the political spectrum?I think far right she is an imperialist monarchist but also depending on edition more or less a feminist supremacists.
>>92836897Assuming I don't just use something like >>92837795, I'd either blatantly lift Gerudo and have them as some sort of slightly mutated humans due to some demesne's effect/a long dead Exalt's breeding program/whatever or, if I wanted to be subtle, I'd blatantly steal the 'Woman's Kingdom' from Journey to the West and have a small nation of women built around two artifact wells/springs, one that can make anyone who drinks from it pregnant (ANYONE) and a spring of fetus deleteus >>92839405IIRC, going off of old WoD and Exalted lore a couple of the Yozi are still kicking around, both Qaf and Malfeas are mentioned, though the former's just a mountain (or maybe the mountain was named after him) and the latter is implied have been reduced to nothing more than a hateful red star. The real oddball is the Ebon Dragon who has apparently wormed his way into becoming the embodiment of Yin and a fucking angel of God somehow according to Kindred of the EastThat said, unless I was using KotE, I'd 100% believe the Wyrm was 90% the Dragon somehow >>92839972Definitely far right, but one of those weird ones that you need a 3, or even 4,-D graph to properly plot
>>92839405I doubt it, mostly because it's a part of a trio, and it's clearly a natural balance sort of thing. I think the Yozis might be the things the Nephandi deal with.
>>92839428Nah, the meandering trees were cool because they're just weird stuff building on itself in obtuse ways. They also help justify the weirder stuff they have that Solars don't. A Solar who hyper-specializes in something is always going to be better than the Infernal at that thing, because he can focus in on it, while Infernals can't. And getting access to some Charms requires taking certain Charms that change you forever, meaning you have to trade away your humanity for power. Other Exalts should have minimal Charm trees though. I think there should still sometimes be short ones though since it cuts out the possibility of expansion Charms if you don't have them. It should be the exception rather than the rule though.
>>92842468>might be the things the Nephandi deal with.My theory on those is they’re massive Wyld entities, which taking from Fifth Age dreams instead of Second aren’t awesome warriors like Balor but imstead Lovecraftian terrors.
>>92842508I disagree. It’s ‘kind of’ a cool idea but it’s not nearly cool enough to compensate for the baggage of linear developments, necessitated Charm trees, and poison pill Charms. >but those pills are cool!Maybe if they weren’t the only way to climb that tree. As is they’re lame.
>>92842831Having one type of Exalt with long trees is fine though. Variety is the spice of life. Demake, Essence Edition, ExWoD, and QE to a lesser extent do to Gifts, don't feel like real Infernals to me, they feel like a different kind of Exalt with Infernal themes. If people don't want to play as Infernals, they don't have to. Some people likely don't like Charm slots on Alchemicals either, but getting rid of them also destroys some of their flavor and makes them more generic.
>>92842862>Having one type of Exalt with long trees is fine thoughIt’s not, and that opinion is generally bad. There’s a reason pretty much every edition of Exaltef fan or official dropped it like a rock. Because while it’s kind of cool it’s not even close to cool enough to make up for all the lame stuff it causes. The part of it that is cool [accepting limits in the name of power, playing with the lines between Yozi, hyper-specialization] are the parts that benefit the most by decoupling their Charms from one singular meandering path of development.
>>92839428>>92842831Gonna agree with the other anon, the meandering trees were what turned Infernals into a 8-9/10 splat into a 12/10, #1 all time favorite splat of mine. They were fun as fuck and heavily encouraged mixing and maxing. I'll admit the poison pill ones aren't everyone's cup of tea, but I actually liked most of them as they shook up the way something's played in addition to providing pretty good bonuses which is how I think such things should be handled.>>92842900>There’s a reason pretty much every edition of Exaltef fan or official dropped it like a rock.The main compliant I've heard of 3E's Infernals was the plan to drop them though, furthermore the first bit of homebrew for 3E I've seen was a full conversion of the Yozi charmtrees into 3E mechanics>The part of it that is cool [accepting limits in the name of power, playing with the lines between Yozi, hyper-specialization] are the parts that benefit the most by decoupling their Charms from one singular meandering path of development.I... don't really get the complaint about them forcing a linear path though? Unless you're talking hyperoptimized minmaxed builds or something, but that'd be the case for any splat. If you just want to make a PC that's just fun to play, you have a LOT of options for what you go forWhat are you talking about when you say they're linear? Cause that's the total opposite of my experience
>>92842928I mean that 2E Infernals don’t have a Charmset, they have five unrelated Charmsets in a trench coat. Becoming something other then an imitation of a particular Yozi exactly or some hybridization is so unusual it’s an entire end-game concept. I prefer ExWoD Infernals [though I think the concept could be improved] where your Shintai is your own thing and Charms are selected individually. If I was doing Infernals I’d make it where there was no Charm trees, Shintai was ExWoD style customization, and the Charms themselves would demand limitation but be more open-ended on the form that limitation takes. I actually did just this in the RPG I’m writing, where Demons are pretty unapologetically using a heavily adapted Infernal Charmset. Essentially my preference is no trees, every Infernal is a Devil Tiger, and they’re evolving into their OWN weird limited demon-titan based on the Yozi paradigm rather then the meandering imitation/hybridization model of Second Edition.
>>92843010The thing about ExWoD Shintais is every single one existed in 2e under the umbrella of Devil-Tyrant Avatar Shintai. What was cool about Shintai in 2e, is that they could allow you to do stuff like turn into a living sandstorm, not just give you a super form.
>>92824869I'm honestly losing more and more interest in the Demake the more it's system changes from being ExvsWOD but in the exalted setting.
>>92843080Granted and I’d port that. I love the Infernal Charmset, just not the meandering, slotted in development path that some people think is so cool and I think it ‘kinda cool but causes too many problems for how lame it can be’.
>>92843111I’ve already lost all interest. That was all I wanted and Holden ruined it.
>>92843010>I mean that 2E Infernals don’t have a Charmset, they have five unrelated Charmsets in a trench coatWhich was part of the reason it was so fucking fun, you have a bunch of weird powers that weren't made to go together, but you can mix them together into something weird>Becoming something other then an imitation of a particular Yozi exactly or some hybridization is so unusual it’s an entire end-game conceptOnly if you're lazyI mean I've seen characters that go SWLiHN/Cecelyne to become an FMA style Alchemist, a wish-granting genie via going Cecelyne/Ebon Dragon, a one man MA academy by leaning into Adjoran/Cecelyne/Ebon Dragon, ect, There's a LOT of stuff you can do via mixing and matching their charms without becoming a mini-Yozi, and that'd before you get into homebrewn or Heretical stuff (which for the most part is homebrew), in one game I've seen another PC basically go all in on portals starting with a Heretical charm branching off of Cracked Cell Circumference and.... I think Mind-Hand?Devil-Tigers are fun, but there's a LOT you can still do with the base trees and there's something just cool about twisting hell's own power to your ends>Essentially my preference is no treesYeah, no, not my cup of tea, I like the weird branches and things that build off of previous things
>>92843140>Which was part of the reason it was so fucking fun, you have a bunch of weird powers that weren't made to go together, but you can mix them together into something weirdYou can mix and match powers, hyper-specialize, and develop into a weird alien demon thing, just with Infernal Charms. The meandering tree structure just limits the variety you can do by pigeonholing development along certain paths. Also it means using Charm trees, which are shit.
>>92839972In what edition is she a feminist supremacist? Even in 3E the Realm's hardly ideologically feminist, and it doesn't have laws or official policies favoring women, unless you count matrilineality itself as such. It's just that having had an Empress as the highest authority for 763 years combined with said matrilineality's impact on power dynamics within Houses has led to some cultural stereotypes that are biased in favor of women.
>>92843165>The meandering tree structure just limits the variety you can do by pigeonholing development along certain paths. Haven't really encountered that, regardless of what concept you want to play, most Infernal abilities start a charm or two deep, then the ones after that start building off the previous ones, which is the huge advantage of trees, you don't have to make everything independent, you can have stuff that upgrades a previous power >Also it means using Charm trees, which are shit.I strongly disagree, not everything needs to be a tree, but most systems that make sure each power is fully independent is shit in my experience looking at you Godbound, I like powers that upgrade or modify previous powers, those are the sorts of things that starts letting you do really fun stuff with a system in my experience
>>92843111I'm still happy for it, because you can just use the sorcerous working rules and hell expansion Charms in ExWoD.
>>92843232>I like powers that upgrade or modify previous powers, those are the sorts of things that starts letting you do really fun stuff with a system in my experienceSame, and it's one of my problems with ExWoD and Demake. You can't invest in a specific thing. I don't think most things require Charm trees, but being able to get expansion on some Charms is fun.
The more I see Demake updating, the more I want to make a Chronicles of Darkness version instead to avoid the worst of WoD dice math and inconsistencies.
>>92843227Male DBs are cucks.And have little chance to become patriarch ("Matriarch" cringe) or attain other important roles
>>92843879Holden is also making that.
>>92843917I see some potential, but it definitely needs work. For example, Infernal Charms are currently just ExWoD but worse, but having the husk of Malfeas be a potential base of operations is cool.
>>92843232Godbound is awesome and your taste is shit.
I'm just not interested in standard moving target numbers, which is why I echo the ideas that he shoulda just done a 1e demake. Maybe that would have gotten heat for being too good of an idea though.
>>92844067It's currently one of my group's backup games, and while it's fun, that's wholly due to group and the game's fun is directly inverse to how much we interact with the systemThere's no attempt to balance the powers, some Gifts are better than entire Words, the mechanics are either "I win" or 1d20+ a small modifier making characters feel simultaneously very powerful or very weak, there's no vertical growth, all of it's horizonal leaving a level 6 PC feeling just as strong as a level 1, combat never gets more advanced than "Smite > Attack/use small damaging power > Repeat", etcI could go on, but the core of the issues is that the system feels like two systems awkwardly wielded together making everything PCs do feel like all or nothing effects and anything that grants bonuses irrelevant
QE question. How do Ways work for spirit? They don't start with them and there is no experience cost listed for them, but they still get referenced in their Charms and experience costs.
>>92843901So are female DBs, as fucking around is just something most Dynasts do. Male DBs are less likely than women to become House heads, but that's due to those cultural stereotypes and perhaps even more due to matrilineal marriages meaning that men often have split loyalties between two Houses while women don't. It's not due to any laws or policies systematically pursued by the Empress. Even so, 20% of Great House heads are male in 3E. There are also several male generals and ministers.
>>92824869>TQ: Outside your own homebrew, what fan material do you or your group use?Glory Overwhelming, as it'd rather get a root canal then run a combat when people are mote tapped.Outside of that. Uh... Hearthstones?>>92825996>>92826454Good to know that you used my material anons. Of course, by saying you do/did use it here you're now obligated to share the details of how such charms were used, as mentioned in the linked document itself.>I would not be roleplaying today if sandact was not as good of a person as he is.Glad I could be of service anon.
>>92844251No tabletop game is balanced, not even the rules lite ones.
>>92844589>Of course, by saying you do/did use it here you're now obligated to share the details of how such charms were used, as mentioned in the linked document itselfThat was around about the time we started racing against that one deathknight witch to plunder your last incarnation's Solar tomb, just after the infamous four session fight scene. There was a multi-person bath, but I don't think the homebrew was involved or even if it got particularly lewd.>Glad I could be of service anon.Hope you're doing alright. >>92844251>I could go on, but the core of the issues is that the system feels like two systems awkwardly wielded together making everything PCs do feel like all or nothing effects and anything that grants bonuses irrelevantA very accurate summation of our experiences with Godbound too, I think. The gift system is bolted on. The upside is that you can use it with pretty much anything, but the downside is that it doesn't really integrate fully with any system.>combat never gets more advanced than "Smite > Attack/use small damaging power > Repeat"There is some amount of advanced combat, but we found it revolved around smite, scry-and-die, movement options, and terrain manipulation. Basically, when people started cheating with stuff like extending line of sight to target attacks/smites further without retaliation, or summoning obstacles that could pen in the opponents for a strategic victory. Unfortunately, Word of God kept shutting it down to the most basic possible version of combat. My understanding is that it didn't feel better to play information control wargames than it did to play smite-attack-smite-attack though.
A few threads back someone mentioned that 2E had a guide to making new MA styles, does anyone know what that anon was talking about? I couldn’t find anything like it and I’m curious if there’s any guide anywhere to doing so
>>92844763There's a difference between making an attempt to make things balanced vs those who go "lol fuck it"
>>92844834No, there isn't. The result is the same.
>>92844763There are, however, degrees of imbalanced, and these degrees aren't all equal.
>>92844383You construct their charms using Ways, but you buy them as Named Charms, like Sidereals do. The number of Ways in a Named Charm determines their cost.
>>92844838By that logic DnD 3.5e and DnD 4e have the same amount of overall balance polish and run the same with similar issues.Sir I'm afraid you have a permanent case of retardation.
>>928448554e has plenty of broken shit. Try playing it.
>>92844859I did. I'm not denying it doesn't. But to claim something like DnD 3.5e doesn't have an order of magnitude more issues is laughable.
>>92844866And at the end of the day it doesn't matter. You still have to ignore the busted shit to preserve the integrity of the game, or have your game revolve around it.
>>92844902Brother, see >>92844839. Everything's flawed but differences in quality still exist and matter, and this applies to balance, too.
Can I make an Alchemical that looks like a doll? Or would it be better to have an artefact body that's a dolly and I can be any Exalt?
>>92845426It's perfectly fine to have an alchemical's body aesthetically be like a doll because that's what it is, but you'd be looking at clay dolls rather than wood or metal. Beyond that, yes, having a full body prosthetic or telepresence is also valid.
One day I want to play a non-combatant and not be a burden on my circle.
>>92845582>me every gameHonestly I want to try building a fully kitted out combat character some day, but it sounds so boring that I've never actually brought myself to do it. You only get to play in so many games, y'know?
>>92845582I want to not play the party face / leader but everyone else is too retarded.
>>92845742how could that be boring? are you retarded?
>>92847616>t. never played a game let alone run one
>>92847673projection
>>92847616NTA but combat in Exalted is really easy and in practice hyper combat gods are pretty boring to play since you basically skip the system. And there's only so many Anys Syns in the universe to oppose you. The game is way more fun when you downplay, because the game is so easy.
>>92847707well that certainly answers one of my two questions lolyou are retarded
>>92847729Could you make a good argument as to why you think it's so unfathomable that people will find that boring?
>>92844799>A very accurate summation of our experiences with Godbound too, I think. The gift system is bolted on. The upside is that you can use it with pretty much anything, but the downside is that it doesn't really integrate fully with any system.Pretty much yeah, I unironically think cutting off everything except the Gift and Dominion systems and either building from there or go full rules lite narrative game would be better than it's current state>My understanding is that it didn't feel better to play information control wargames than it did to play smite-attack-smite-attack though.My PC in my group's Godbound game has the Knowledge Word (among others) and our GM admitted once he has some trouble thinking up plots that don't rely on our foe having the Deception word or don't just fall apart when I spend an Effort or two to turn to him and flat out ask how to solve the current problem or for any other information I want depending on which Gift I use, I've tried toning it down since then, but it's real easy to go "Okay, how do I solve X/what weaknesses does Y have?" >Unfortunately, Word of God kept shutting it down to the most basic possible version of combat. You're not missing much imo, one of my PC's other words is Artifice and I occasionally try doing terrain manipulator using the Transmuter Gift but against anything you can't just fray to death it's almost always better to save the Effort for a Smite or the like I've found, unless your GM lets you use it to just flat out kill an opponent with it. And on that note, because Artifice can make items using any other Gift/Word I now have an infinite range, max damage gun.... that doesn't get used at anything but close to medium range because we all agreed that just plinking away at something from a hundred miles away and moving back if it starts to get close would be the most boring way to handle combat
I'm looking to make some little gods to worship and I kind of could use some help because Exalted divinities are kind of confusing and not like typical D&D gods. I'm making a northener if it helps.
>>92844853Okay, thanks.
>>92848190I feel like I've had most success with making gods of pretty normal things and just putting some thought into what they're like as people, how they interact with and influence nearby mortal cultures and what do they have to offer to the PCs. The last part can refer both to what they have to offer as allies and what kind of trouble they can cause as enemies. Like, just make a river god or a forest god or some shit, make him a person but not quite a human, and figure out something interesting for how the people of the river worship their god or the kinds of stories people of the forest tell about theirs. I know that's vague as fuck, but I think approaching gods as characters rather than forces of nature or numinous beings beyond human comprehension is the way to go.
>>92848190I like categorizing them based on what they are the god of.>Least godsThey are tiny automatons assigned to things so small they are insignificant (blades of grass, grains of sands, individual fruits, etc.)>Petty godsBasically same as Least Gods, but they are assigned to small items that are somehow important, so they do need some supervision (not just any mundane weapon but a weapon that is destined to be wielded by a brave warrior in a significant battle where he must kill the enemy general). Or gods of bigger items, like houses.I also lump those gods in Yu-Shan in here who technically count as Celestial gods but they basically do nothing but do menial work in Heaven, paper-pushers>ElementalsThese are the Elementals. Weak and dumb (intelligence of a small child or a very dumb adult). They are assigned to elemental things (rivers, trees, fires, etc.) But at Elder Essence they become Dragons which is fucking scary.>Celestial godsThese are gods of concepts. A city is not an object, but rather something mortals came up with. These are the gods with large enough domains to be actual players in Yu-Shan. Or they are just gods with large portfolios, which is just as good. Wun-Ja and other city gods are good examples.>Big GodsThese are the most powerful gods under the Incarna. Leaders of entire departments or simply ludicrously influtential gods like the Syndics or The Three of Great Forks.>IncarnaeFinally the big dicks themselves. No explanation neededAs for Northern Little gods who get worshipped... things that might be small and seemingly insignificant but nevertheless necessary for life in the north count. Gods of Hearth, Field Gods, Hunting tools or even just the gods of the settlement are all good ideas
>>92837221Didn't one version have a placefolder for a Sightless Eye of Prophecy Style with no text underneath it? What happened to that?
>>92849647He decided to divide the Demake into at least 2 books.One with the core rules and the most common and creation bound exalts and another with nuexalted and other more out there classic exalts and it will have Martial arts that were cut from this pdf.
>>92849125Non-dragon elementals aren't necessarily dumb. Even pretty minor elementals like flame ducks or cloud people are human-tier smart. Your list also seems to lack Terrestrial gods aside from those of single item. River gods, mountain gods and such aren't elementals, and these are the kinds of gods people in Creation are the most likely to have direct interaction with.
>>92852348Is there any kind of info on how long Holden plans on working on Demake and when does he estimate it'll be finished?
Can an absolute legend please write out how to do Lunar Territory charms in QE?
>>92857313They don't
>>92857415>picEven when it comes to that final Lunar specialty, Dragonblood are better.
>>92857313>>92857415Yes they do?
>>92859764unless im missing something this doesn't really capture what territories in 3e do.
So, the IO says everything came from the Immaculate Dragons, right? Do they know about Gaia? And if so what do they think about her?
>>92863907Most of them have no clue about Gaia.Keep in mind a lot of 1st age lore is lost.Those of a high enough rank and those who read the few esoteric scrolls mentioning Gaia usually just scratch their heads and typically regard her like how IRL Buddhists have Kaons that seemingly make no fucking sense and are just meant to make you think. So they probably think Gaia is some metaphor for Creation or the mythical mother of the Dragons you aren't meant to think about since the Dragons are already a goal unattaimable for mere men
>>92836897Easy. A different version for each direction. Each with its own twist. Tya in the west, warrior women who everyone insists aren't women, and frantically shush you if you say otherwise, brides of ahlat in the South, mortal women like the Tya but with conditional bonuses. Etc.Would NOT make them tall or buff. Purely to piss off gerudo simps.
>>92843165>charm trees which are shitI couldn't agree less. I don't think you're an idiot mind, but I think what's happening here is you're doing a bit of Holdening. I've been guilty of it myself. But what is is you're arguing from the perspective of a personal gripe that is just that: personal. And that's fine.But it's also almost impossible to convince the other person in situations like this. If you have an 'ick' response, and someone else doesn't, then they just don't.Other people don't seem to think of infernal charm trees as 'meandering', or have a problem with that, or have a problem with charm trees. You're welcome to feel differently, but I don't think you'll convince anyone, and trying will just turn into another internet argument. Your opinions are valid, but I'd leave it at that.
>>92844763Agreed. And in different ways. In this case: in godbound, it seems the lack of skill trees means all the most powerful options are available from the get go, so they're all people take. Leading to boring combat.2e had a similar problem with everyone having to take the same charms just to survive, charm trees didn't prevent that, but it proves that removing charm trees doesn't fix it.
>>92844838Everyone dies. That doesn't mean all lives are the same.
>>92857476Which Aspect?
>>92864678Typed a lot of words for just ‘a lot of people have shitty taste’. Of course it’s a matter of personal preference and taste. I wasn’t saying people who disagree are wrong, just that they have bad opinions.
>>92864819You and Holden go have fun in the corner then. You both agree on losing charm trees and disagree with everyone else on what made infernals good. I'm sure you'll agree on everything else too.
>>92864835Pretty much every homebrew of Exalted moved away from trees. It’s one of the few things that’s almost unanimously regarded as an obvious improvement.
I always find it really weird when 3e people think that because Dragonblooded / Lunars / Sidereals don't have charms like Tiger Warrior Training technique, they cannot ever make champions unless they do it the mortal way when the more likely explanation is that the sort of charms that those Exalts have just take a lot longer and aren't worth writing up, like a DB charm that turns people into master soldiers within 2-4 years. >inb4 THAT BREAKS THE SETTING tards pretend that every exalt has to optimize around this hypothetical charm while never extending the same scrutiny to charms already in the game
>>92864942Never seen one. Unless you're referring to exvswod, in which case, as I said: Holden.
>>92863907>So, the IO says everything came from the Immaculate Dragons, right?No. It doesn't. You fucking baboon.The Immaculate Order teaches that there are five perfect beings, the Immaculate Dragons, who at one point took it upon themselves to manifest as Dragonblooded to better teach the Exalted the path to enlightenment. It teaches that refining yourself brings you closer to them through reincarnation. Immaculate Doctrine's core tenet is that there is a structure to the universe, the celestially inspired blueprint in which every thing and every living being has its place. It is proper to respect and obey those higher than you on the chain of being. The Immaculate Dragons are at the top, and the Dragonblooded are the closest to them.I doubt this sounds at all familiar to you because I quoted directly from Dragonblooded 1e for a lot of it. Starts page 70 if you need a hint.
>>92865530Okay, but do they know about Gaia/what do they think of her?
>>92865865>Okay, but do they know about Gaia/what do they think of her?Yes, they know about Gaia. They know Primordials created the world. They don't give a hoot about either of those things, not important - when it changes nothing about the effects of the doctrine (i.e. Dragonblood hegemony, Anathema bad guys), the Immaculate Order's lore is almost always correct and upright. They know Gaia made the Elemental Dragons. The Immaculate Dragons are the transcendent Elemental Dragons made manifest / incarnated so as to communicate with the puny mortals, in their lore, which is the point where their myths tail off into fantasy land because they needed to get the moral lessons across.
>>92866489Ah, thanks
>>92864942Most other system hacks I'm seen of Exalted are with systems that have free selection of powers by default. It's less intentional and more just how the new system works.
>>92865423Essence, QE, Godbound, and 4che all built off Exalted and immediately moved away from trees.
>>928684632 of those aren't homebrewAnd the other 2 are worse for itEspecially Godbound
>>92869203A minority opinion. The reality is Charm trees are broadly seen as bad, and Third Edition showed us that worst version of them finally incentivizing most designers to kill that sacred cow and move on. As to why this is the dominant taste, I think it comes down to a few reasons->Firstly, it encourages too much gradience, especially in the form of Charms that don’t do anything or just serve as speed bumps to better Charms. Replacing trees with free power selection, or with much shorter Charm ‘bushes’ means any power must stand on its own feet. >Secondly, people play Exalted for a power fantasy. Waiting awhile to get the best stuff runs kind of counter to that. Supernal as a concept in Third existed to mitigate this within the concept of trees.>Thirdly, largely as a result of the first point, the powerset of Exalted and especially of Solars simply isn’t complex enough for the degree of complexity the Charmset has. In First Edition most of the Charm trees are less then 10 Charms long. Some are as few as six. While the combat Charm trees are over twice that. There’s only so many ways to write ‘sails good’. ExWoD captured the entire core Solar powerset in less then one hundred Charms. Even if you tried to fill every gap Holden left open, you’d barely reach 1E’s two hundred before running out of shit to port.The people who want a lot of gradience, long lists of powers that build on each other incrementally, and mechanical depth in this part of the system [all the foundation necessary for 2E-style Infernal mechanics] are beyond a minority among designers. The game I’m writing based mechanically on Exalted favors the ‘most powers are independent, with a number of Charm bushes where necessary’’ model, adding it to the list. It’s simply not a popular mechanic. At least not among designers, though I assume if there was huge player support for them more homebrew would cater to it. As is, I think 3E soured everyone on the concept.
>>92869423>A minority opinion.Given you've had multiple anons tell you otherwise, I have my doubtsI also have never seen that sentiment on.... any other place Exalted gets discussed, like SV or the Discord>As is, I think 3E soured everyone on the concept.Ah, you're a troll, got it
>>92869594I did specify among designers. Players may have a different opinion but again if it was majority there’d be more support. QE specifically mentions Third Edition charm bloat as a key complaint in why it is the way it is, and clearly Holden thinks he made a mistake since all his future projects have stepped away from trees.
>>92868463You're missing the common thread here. Each of those were attempts to make the game massively simpler for playing it more quickly. These aren't "most homebrew". They're "homebrew quick play editions." This unanimous opinion you imagine is just that. Imaginary. NEVER before today have I heard a complaint about the existence of charm trees any more than I've heard a complaint about the existence of a menu in a video game. And I still don't know what you think the problem with them even is.
>>92869958>And I still don't know what you think the problem with them even is.He's trolling anon, simple as that
>>92869918>more supportEveryone but you here has no issues with charm trees, so clearly there's already more than you thought. I think you're confusing people not minding something different now and then with unanimous disdain for what you've decided is a sacred cow. It's not.>Holden thinks he made a mistakeHolden also thought Exalted being exciting was a mistake. He makes a lot of mistakes in his assumptions. And him switching away from trees isn't because of some personal vendetta, it's because his homebrew is based on a different system. He also doesn't think people want to play grapplers (in reality they're popular) and thinks doing away with initiative was a good idea.He resents games having mechanics at all. Which is annoying for people who want to actually experience a game. Or who realise skipping straight to heavenly guardian defence without needing to buy the lesser defensive powers you'd obviously need on the way to learning it limits how good it can actually be, sets a dumb power level for bottom of the barrel techniques, invalidates other defending options and just doesn't make any sense.Now, I'd use a system like that for a very large group or maybe a Quest, not because it's better, but because it's less bookkeeping. Same as I'd play monopoly with a bunch of normies rather than try to teach them War of the Ring.War of the Ring is still better.
>>92869423>As is, I think 3E soured everyone on the concept.I don't mind it. In fact I think there's something to be said when you work through something like an MA or evocation tree and get to the capstone. If one could get to those capstones immediately I'd call it rather sus.Or how something like ignoring onslaught penalties instantly vs action length works. I think it's certainly worth an upgrade charm to ignore penalties for an action but the instant version also has it's own use case (less cost, free init on success)
>>92870012I disagreed but then I reread an earlier post and he mentions charm 'bushes' and I realised he thinks that's it's own thing. He actually thinks that's different. He looks at 3e bloat and thinks the problem is 'some powers require other powers' and that making charm trees shorter is a revolutionary act. Incidentally, while I agree 3e bloat is stupid, it's because hundreds of those charms don't do anything beyond adjust a roll slightly. I don't mind long charm trees as long as you're buying Actual Powers that are Memorable. Making mind hand manipulation an essence 1 charm that ends with itself severely limits how good it can be without breaking the game. Adamant skin technique shouldn't come before Iron Body Concentration. You have to learn to walk before running.
>>92870101You get it. That's how learning WORKS.
>>92870012>>92869958I explained exactly what I think the problem with then is.>>92869423Disagreeing simply means you have a different taste, one I think is poor, but I’ve explained my rationale.>>92870067>all this rage at HoldentrannyLol. Occasional autism and poor design decisions in Demake aside, he’s still a pretty good developer. He made ExWoD, which remains the best chassis this game has ever had.
>>92870130Id say a game where 70% of Charms have no prerequisites with only a few short ‘trees’ of 2-4 Charms is wildly different even then First Edition and it’s 10 or less trees for most Abilities.
>>92870153I've defended Holden in the past. I think he's the best dev Exalted has had. I've also, repeatedly pointed out that his weakness is assuming everyone agrees with him on really strange concepts and then refusing to budge when he learns he's wrong. See refusing to provide an xo variant of chargen. See refusing to let ExvsWod twilights make artifacts because he's obsessed with "NO the game is BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER" when every other faction in the game can make far superior magic items.Exvswod is good! I love listening to Exvswod anons stories. It's not got free power choice because of some ideological conflict, it has it because that's how Wod works, and Holden has swung into obsessing over making the game as simple as possible because he was responsible for the ridiculous bloat before. If it makes you feel better, I think Eclipse charms should be free to select from at will! Assuming you're an eclipse or whatnot. I think some of the Essence ranks they required in 3e are ridiculous. And I also think they should mostly be available at Essence 1 and rank up with Essence without unlocking new charms, with that as their unique strength and weakness to make them feel different from other charm sets.But otherwise?>>92870101This guy has it down.I say all this with respect believe it or not. I think you're mistaken. Not an idiot.
>>92870258Most splats in WoD don’t have free selection. Vampires, Changelings, and Mages all buy up. Garou have free select but there’s Rank requirements. Also I am ExWoD anon, and the charm structure and Essence/Turn chassis is my favorite part of the system. I 100% agree on Holden’s big problem as a dev though, of grabbing ahold of stupid ideas and absolutely refusing to budge on them. Though in fairness he will budge a little. He did eventually add crafting and battlegroups to ExWoD. Years after I did but anyway.
>>92870153>He made ExWoD, which remains the best chassis this game has ever had.I'd rather play Ex3 in M&M 2e or 3e in an attosecond over ExWoD
>>92870302Mutants and Masterminds is too high powered IMO. It doesn’t create the same feel unless you house rule or make some limits on chargen to reflect the things Exalts are less good at [like movement speed].
>>92870322Fair, but I still consider it far better personally than ExWoD.
>>92870166Oh boy, I'll link you some 2e charm trees in a bit. 2e stealth was TINY unless you added stuff.
>>92870417I’ve read them. I port a lot from 2E to ExWoD and one of the ‘classes’ in the RPG I’m writing is unapologetically a retooled Solar Charmset [largely redone 1E/2E Charms].
>>92870296I knew vampires and mages had buy up but didn't know about changelings. Huh. The rest of my statement stands. It's better design in my opinion to break powers up into the tiers they should be available at. It takes the burden of being Too Good off low tier powers, while letting the stronger ones actually be as strong as I'd want them to be. I wouldn't let a player buy-Fuck the name has completely gone out of my head. Um. Thunder something. Doubles damage. Athletics charm. Shit.Anyway. I wouldn't let a player buy it without buying Strength Increasing Exercise and Monkey Leap Technique first. It wouldn't make sense to let someone pick something that obviously apes both of them without having both. And I wouldn't want to get rid of any of them because they all cover things I want Solars to be able to do, and combining them would be too much power for one charm (what would the investigation equivalent be? Awareness? Larceny?) or require making them all too weak.I like god-king shrike. I don't want it available at Essence 1 without SERIOUS investment.I love As in the Beginning. Without charm trees it's either available from chargen, has none of the obvious prerequisites necessary to get it (you shouldn't be able to know it and not Elemental Bolt Attack) or it's nerfed into oblivion. Though now I've got to admit I'm curious how one would handle an Ess 1 version of As in the Beginning.>>92870547Based.Also, as you're ExvsWod anon, firstly hi, secondly I was going to say that the only other guy I've seen make a point of charm trees was ExvsWod anon. Which as it turns out is you. I don't doubt there's other people but it's just not a thing I've seen people complain about.I do think they should mostly be simpler though. You don't need fifty dice rerollers. But a water aspect having, say four separate water elemental effect charms before the Water Melee Signature would be a lot more fun then their utterly Spartan selection besides it in 3e.
>>92870623>Fuck the name has completely gone out of my head. Um. Thunder something. Doubles damage. Athletics charm. Shit.Thunderbolt Attack Prana
>>92870623For my own system I did it as such: Most powers have no prerequisites, some have prerequisites forming short trees of 2-5, and some have only a Rank [equivalent of Essence Rating[ requirement. If you want to check out my work the not-Solars start at page 215. Clarifying my Heroes are a class meant to be balanced with the others so they start off weaker then normal Solars so it’s not exactly how I’d do it in Exalted proper. But it’s my take on evolving the ExWoD ‘chassis’.
>>92870417It always amuses me that for all the complaints 2E had about charmbloat, it actually has the shortest charm trees on average in any edition
>>92870881>shortest1e called. and then essence called. only 3e has longer charms lol
>>92870166>>92870417>>92870881Speaking about charm trees, I have a headcanon that charm trees are part of Szoreny's portfolio, and he can give his worshippers his own charm trees for each ability. And those charm trees are upside down so you'd start with separate branches and then once you'd learned those you'd converge into a more general but more powerful charm. So for example Szoreny's melee charm would start with a branch that increases attack rate, another branch that increases damage, and a third that improves defense, and then somewhere at the top they'd all merge into a single super melee charm. Also another headcanon is that at least several of his 3CDs/2CDs are big titty dryads and it's one of his 1CD demon types too.
>>92871136>1e called. Actually, no, and I was surprised when I realized itOnly.... 3 of the core charm trees are longer in 2E than in 1E, with 4 more being the same length IIRC, the rest are 1 or 2 charms shorter in 2EThe equation starts changing when you add in supplements, but for the most part 2E's charm trees are slightly shorter
>>92871210That reverse charm tree idea is freaking genius. You shouldn't have even shared that dude it's brilliant.As for dryads: that gave ME a bunch of ideas. But I won't share them. I'm keeping them for my homebrew. Muahaha. (I can now guarantee you'll enjoy that home-brew tho)
>>92871248Just did a quick check and your count is off anon2e's trees tend to be one charm longer, but roughly a third of them are shorter than in 1e by two or three so oddly enough I think they may actually be about even overall
>>92869423Like I was saying earlier, Charm tree bloat is bad, but getting rid of Charm trees all together is bad. For the most part, Charms that require prerequisites should be Charms that expand the power or scope of their prerequisite. I also feel the one exception should be Infernals, because the loss of the weirdness that comes with it does not out way the benefits.Much like Abyssals, Solars will always be the measuring stick by which Infernals will be compared. As shown with Abyssals, cleaving too closely to Solars is a bad idea. Of course you can't move Abyssals too far from Solars, otherwise they cease to be dark mirrors. Infernals are freaks, and they need to be freaks in order to not be green Solars. We already have black Solars and Solars after all, so throwing green Solars on top of it is repetitive and boring. Now, I know people don't want to strip that part out, but if their Charms function like Solar Charms, you end up with limitations born from not having them outstrip Solars. That's where the long Charm tree and Permanent Charms that fundamentally change your character forever come in. Their power comes with a price, and they can't specialize anywhere near as well as Solars. While Infernals may be able to do more things than Solars and the things they both do, they do just as well, Solars don't have to invest in stuff unrelated to their specialty, while Infernals do. An Infernal craftsmen may have 2 telekinesis Charms and 3 craft Charms, a Solar would just have 5 craft Charm.
>>92872906The tree design limits that design, it doesn’t expand it. The individual Charms possessing limits that cause evolution in one theme to cause weaknesses or penalties in opposing themes is the center piece of the Infernal design. It’s the Charms themselves evolving you that creates the weirdness, not the system of organization for those Charms or the structure of their purchase.
>>92872981>The tree design limits that design, it doesn’t expand it.It does when you include charms that modify the abilities or themes granted by other charms
>>92873010Which isn’t many, especially for Infernals by your own admission. Infernals specifically ran on the paradigm of starting with one power then having to go through six or seven other powers to get a second related power. That part of the paradigm isn’t necessary or desirable for Infernal themes of evolution and limitation. If we made every Charm that doesn’t directly build off a preceding Charm a stand-alone, I don’t think anything important is lost. Some people really like this part of the design, of Infernals starting with one thing and ending the tree in something barely related except for some thematic resemblance. I think it’s ’kind of’ cool, but mostly just annoying.
>>92873077>Infernals specifically ran on the paradigm of starting with one power then having to go through six or seven other powers to get a second related power.Yeah, I'm increasingly convinced you've either never looked at Infernal trees or are just trollingEven ignoring theme linked charms, or stuff like how Cecelyne's wish granting powers all building off of each other, TED's Golden Years Tarnished black and it's decedents doing the same, etc. NONE of them take that many to get to a secondary related power, the vast majority of ones that work together are clustered together, and again, tend to build off of each other or branch off into a new cluster
>>92873077>I think it’s ’kind of’ cool, but mostly just annoying.As has been said before, that's your opinion you're taking as factWouldn't be so bad if you just came out and said you're doing it cause you don't like charm trees, but the fact that you keep trying to insist on this ridiculous notion no one does is why people can't take you seriously
anyone have the pdf of collected erotic homebrew for 2e handy?
>>92873256I know of the scroll of swallowed darkness, but that's itBit curious what you're talking about if not that
>>92873266There was a homebrew pdf that completed the martial arts from SoSD, had a couple other erotic martial arts, a handful of sex charms for each exalt type, some artifacts, and a really clunky system for sex-combat where you inflected pleasure damage on each other and such.
>>92873309Ah, vaguely recall it now that you mention it. Sadly I don't have it
>>92872981The only way to keep Infernals even with Solars is to make them worse though. You start getting into dumb stuff like ExWoD Infernals not getting super strength Charms because they get telekinesis Charms and Shintai, despite the fact there is no good in-universe justification for it. You also get things like Shintais no longer doing a variety of cool stuff like turning you into a desert or an amorphous mass of acidic tentacles, and instead just becoming a demon form. Demon forms are cool, but 2e Infernals can do that with Devil-Tyrant Avatar Shintai and a bunch of other neat stuff. And if making them better makes them worse for balance reasons, how does that actually make them better?
>>92873146That’s what >>92872906>An Infernal craftsmen may have 2 telekinesis Charms and 3 craft Charms, a Solar would just have 5 craft Charm.Said. Infernal design in 2E includes the notion that to get multiple related Charsm you have to go through Charms that are conceptually linked but mechanically doing totally unrelated things. It being 3-5 rather then 6-7 is beside the point. The thing being attacked isn’t the number of stopgaps.>>92873177I’ve said repeatedly. It is just my opinion. Disagreeing is also just an opinion, one I think is shit. I’ve never said nobody holds that bad opinion, only that it’s not an opinion represented by very many new releases or homebrew.>>92873453Don’t mistake my argument as a blatant defense of ExWoD Infernals as the ideal. I’ve house ruled back in a lot of the Charms and ideas from 2E. Even offered to port back their Excellences, but the Infernal’s player said he preferred the Keys.
>>92873517>only that it’s not an opinion represented by very many new releases or homebrew.Yeah, nah, no matter how many times you repeat this doesn't make it true
>>92873536Essence, ExWoD, QE, Demake, Ex20, and Godbound if we feel like stretching it all don’t use charm trees. Sandact has been working to completely rewrite Third Edition trees so if we count that as a homebrew edition [which we should, he’s written enough] thats 5 to 1 on no trees vs trees. I’ve never read Seat Admiral’s edition so thats 5 to 2 if it uses trees.
>>92873517>Said. Infernal design in 2E includes the notion that to get multiple related Charsm you have to go through Charms that are conceptually linked but mechanically doing totally unrelated things.Yeah, no, none of 2E's charm trees are organized like that, you may start with the telekinesis to move into the crafting charms, but you don't have to grab the regeneration charms to get more crafting charms AND the crafting charms directly build off of the telekinesis ones enhancing what the telekinesis charms can do rather than grant a wholly new ability>tl:dr They're both mechanically and thematically linked, they just specialize in different things and go in odd paths to get there
>>92873577Another anon previously put it better than I can >>92869958You're looking at stuff that's supposed to be much, MUCH simpler versions of the rules and assuming their existence means people agree with you
>>92872906As the other charm tree anon: While I feel infernal charm trees could be improved, they did make sure infernals couldn't opt out of being strange and alien. That's good. If you never have to agonise over whether taking a charm with permanent, self-altering effects is worth the bizarre but useful charms beyond it then you're doing infernals wrong imo. But forcing agonising dilemmas into every charm is a bit too much imo.
>>92873517>>An Infernal craftsmen may have 2 telekinesis Charms and 3 craft Charms, a Solar would just have 5 craft Charm.3 craft charms that directly use the telekinesis, starting with being able to use the telekinesis as tools for crafting then being able to multiply the speed of any telekinetic action you take (such as crafting), and so on, and so on. The Infernal craftsmen in question doesn't have 2 telekinesis charms and 3 craft charms, he has 5 telekinetic charms, three of which can enhance crafting. That's how Infernal charm trees work, and they're very cool cause of it
>>92873577Those aren't most homebrew. They're homebrew systems specifically. Of course different systems work differently to the normal system. And they ditch charm trees for free picks because they're attempts to make the system Quick or attempts to improve on attempts to do so, and while they have their strengths, their design choices do breed in their own inherent weaknesses.
>>92873592>Malfeas tree starts on By Pain Reforged, which increases durability. It branches off into->Purity of Madness, a shaping defense>Blight Internalization Transcendence, a defense to sickness >Scar Writ Saga Shield, more defense >Pathetic Distraction rebuke, which improves parrying ability >Nightmare Fugue Vigilance, which negates the need to sleep. Nightmare in turn leads to>Impervious Primacy Mantle, a social defense>Soliphistic Rejection of Impossibilities, another social defense >Crowned with Fury, a social attack power which leads to>Fealty Acknowledging Audience which builds off Magnanimous Warning Glyph to apply it en masse.So we start with more defense [By Pain Reforged], branch to no sleep, then a social attack, then a magical effect combining said social attack with a prior magical effect that is kind of social in nature. There’s definitely thematic links between all of these [ideas such as defense, inviolability, and ego] but what they actually do stripped of fluff only directly builds in a few places [like BPR to Scar-Writ or Fealty building directly off Magnanimous Glyph]. Most of these Charms lose nothing by losing their prerequisites, even the ones that do similar things generally need only to stack, since they don’t directly improve upon the other Charm. Of those I mentioned the only one that isn’t sensible alone is Fealty since it is just an upgrade to Glyph.
>>92873657>>92873646As I said it’s pure taste at that point. Some people love that weird building each other thing, going off in thematic directions ending on something weird. I don’t think it’s worth the cost.
>>92873691>>92873626The fact most homebrew and even an official release tend to be simpler systems with less bloat of itself tells you there’s tremendous demand for a less bloated game. Some people love Exalted at the current level of complexity but clearly most of the new material is being made by people who don’t feel that way. Which could be selection bias, since people content with the current design obviously aren’t going to make a variant. But the fact remains, most homebrew editions do in fact go the other way and I never made a claim about what the fanbase as a whole thinks.
>>92873626I'm flattered bro.>>92873657Yeah, Infernals are Essence based, their charm trees are about concepts, and how those concepts can be used. You can advance to the point in that concept (Revenge, or Telekinesis) where the specific powers you want are (Ignoring Wound Penalties, crafting things with your mind) but you do it by engaging with and getting better at using the concept (the Wound Ignoring charm may require you to by a Counter-attack charm first, as that's a more basic example of Revenge, the crafting charm requires you to unlock telekinesis first, not a crafting charm) not the ability the charm you want uses (the Wound ignoring charm isn't gated behind Ox Body Technique, the Telekinesis crafting charm isn't gated behind the Craft Excellency). Being able to pick and choose prevents your character from interacting with this system.And most infernal players like this system.
>>92873776>But the fact remains, most homebrew editions do in fact go the other way and I never made a claim about what the fanbase as a whole thinksSee >>92864942
>>92873776Most homebrew isn't. Most homebrew is "I made this artifact with its own charm tree!" or "I made this exigent with multiple charm trees!" or "I made a martial art, aka a charm tree!".
>>92873812(Cont)If I'm not mistaken, Sandact rewrote EVERY 3e solar charm tree, and multiple martial arts, and rewrote several other aspects of the game, basically making his own system, without throwing away charm trees.Because he wasn't trying to make another Qwixalted.
>>92873736Funny how you ignored half of his charm tree, namely the one that has a whole bunch of charms that build off of and enhance Green Sun Nimbus Flare
>>92873736See my relevant post:>>92873788
>>92873793It is something regarded as an obvious improvement by developers, since most new editions don’t use them. That’s not a statement about the fanbase, but about the devs. Though I’d argue the fact it’s so common means it’s probably a common opinion, it’s also possible it’s just selection bias for the reason this anon said>>92873812Most people who think the chassis is good aren’t going to make a brand new one.
>>92873844Didn’t ignore it. I was told no Infernal Charm tree meandered through mechanically unrelated but conceptually linked Charms. I never said ‘all Infernal Charm trees are that way’. I contested the point that none of them were or that the majority weren’t. >>92873857>>92873788This anon makes my point for me. This is exactly how Infernals were designed. Some people are really into that. I think it’s kind of cool. I still vastly prefer the alternative.
>>92873858>That’s not a statement about the fanbase, but about the devs.Funny how you only started mentioning the devs after you got called out for that post though
>>92873876Well because I legitimately hadn’t considered the alternative until later. I said “Most editions coming out are this way, so clearly there’s majority fan support for it” and as we discussed it I realized it could just be that “Well people who like the current model aren’t going to make a new model”. So in short I took it for granted at first that the flood of tree-less designs meant it was the dominant position, and changed my mind afterwards as I realized that wasn’t the only explanation.
>>92873870You do understand though why the alternative is unappealing to people who really liked infernals in 2e though yes?
>>92873870>Didn’t ignore it. I was told no Infernal Charm tree meandered through mechanically unrelated but conceptually linked Charms. I never said ‘all Infernal Charm trees are that way’. I contested the point that none of them were or that the majority weren’t.No, you were told no Infernal Charm tree forced you to get multiple charms in between two mechanically related charms, which is what you claimed was the case >>92873517>Said. Infernal design in 2E includes the notion that to get multiple related Charsm you have to go through Charms that are conceptually linked but mechanically doing totally unrelated things. If you notice all the things that do the same/similar stuff are either direct prereqs for each other or have the same prereq charms to take
>>92873917Based learner and grower. Good man. Doubly good on you for giving that honest answer and not making excuses. I know that shit is hard as he'll.
>>92873928Of course, though I think there’s a lot more reasons people liked 2E Infernals then just that. The evolution through limitation motif and ‘becoming alien and Yozi-like’ idea I think is far more important to their concept then specific growing up through variations of a Yozi theme in a particular order. It’s actually kind of funny because I actually used most of the 2E Infernal design for the Demons in my game [posted above] down to including some of the same meandering [like telekinesis being a prerequisite for crafting faster] I’m complaining was a nuisance. Put in worldforms, subsouls and becoming Titans too.
>>92873917Ah, well in that case sorry for my hostility thenTo be honest it was the assumption you were the same anon who'd get really defensive about your position and assume anyone who's tastes were remotely different was having fun wrong that had me up in arms
>>92873937That’s a stretch. Saying it doesn’t change wildly over the course of the tree because each Charm is kind of similar to the one directly beneath it is certainly a viewpoint. But I still hold this anon summed up the design perfectly. >>92873788You grow up through themes, to get often but not always unrelated powers, that are linked not by building off each other but by building up the theme.
>>92873966Basically. I said concept instead of theme.
>>92873966>Saying it doesn’t change wildly over the course of the tree because each Charm is kind of similar to the one directly beneath it is certainly a viewpoint.My point was you're not going to have to go to two different branches of the charm tree to get all the crafting charms on it, same with things that boost soak, or speed or.....Which is what I thought you were saying, if you meant something else there's been a miscommunication somewhere, but that's what I took from your complaint about having to grab multiple unrelated charms between getting charms of similar types
>>92873986No I’m complaining about the fact that to get the shaping defense or the sleeping power you must get the better soak power, and to get the social authority power you must get the soak and the sleep power, and so on. And complaint is a strong word since I do kind of see the appeal of doing it like that. I just think it’s not nearly cool enough to justify and prefer the alternative immensely.
>>92873997That's fine, but as most infernal fans seem to really like it I think it'd be better if at least infernals kept having charm trees.
>>92874020Well it’s not up to either of us for where fourth edition will go on that regard. Naturally I hope they go closer to my preferences.
>>92873997Eh, suppose that's more fair. I don't really see it as an issue as the steps to actually get to a power/cluster of powers tends to be fairly small. You don't pick Infernals if you want to go straight at things after allI will say I have always felt there should be alternate paths to different branches, but that would also be overkill for a dev and/or would need MUCH larger Infernal trees to really make sense
>>92870296on the subject of holden clinging to weird/stupid ideas. I just started playing EXvWoD recently, and made an infernal as my first character...and have now realized so much of their design is centered around their shintai form which feels...really lame? Like the most interesting part of the infernal kit (to me) is designing the hell realm. Feels like a wasted opportunity to not have more center around that.
>>92874066Holdo dropped the ball on internals. I hear the rest is great though.>>92874035Very true, sorry for any harsh words I used, and All Good.
>>92874080its funny, its actually my ONLY source of ever getting to play any exalted, which sucks because I'd love to see the real deal, but I take what I can get and I love my sociopathic warden all the same. Just wish the charmsets for infernals weren't almost universally dogshit. I ended up almost exclusively picking up Kakuri and Lanka charms as a result.
>>92874066It sucks their Signature Charms are so heavily restricted by only being useable when in Shintai mode since you can only be in it every so often and not for very long.
>>92873830I did rewrite every charm tree, along with a large swathe of MA, artifacts, and parts of the game.This is something I reflected upon in my recent birthday.The only charm I threw away and didn't intend to replace with something else were the persona charms, as I thought they were horribly bloated and making multiple statted Solars is less about an idea of fun and more a special kind of hell.>>92873577The stuff I've made myself has come in useful for other things at least.
>>92874208Your effort was herculean, inspiring and appreciated Sandact. If I ever find a dang group for 3e they'll be using your rewrite.
>>92874179I look at the abyssals and solars getting to use their fun super charm effects whenever and my big murder form gets marginally more murdery, I feel ripped off
>>92874179Yeah, turning Shintais into limited number of uses rather than just if you have the motes was one of the odder decisions imo
>>92874208Ayyy happy birthday Sandact! I hope your pic isn't related to your actual mood, you're a good guy.
>>92874230>>92874066The Infernal in my ExWoD game benefitted from a number of ported or homebrewed Charms. There’s some fun stuff with tweaks. Like the Charm to fly several hundred MPH, or the one to turn Shintai if killed. I play the original release of ExWoD though, before Supernal/Etc was even a thing. I’m not a fan. I just port the good ones as more Charms.
>>92874208>This is something I reflected upon in my recent birthday.Happy birthday!
>>92874230Standard entitled Infernal wants their shintai AND their world-body AND their high customization AND for us to ignore all that while balancing their charms equal or better than Solars.
>>92874300If I were ever to run it, I'd probably make it so you could repurchase Charms to get their Supernal effect.
I make homebrew for QE and I kind of like including Charm Trees for some things. Certain Martial Arts and a lot of Infernal trees just plain make sense as being charm trees that rely on techniques/charms being taken in a specific order since they iterate on themselves so well. You could make an argument that those charm trees shouldn't be as linear, and I would agree, I just would still like there being a curated structure.For other Exalts I don't think it is as important that there needs to be Charm Trees so much as there's prerequisites for certain charm paths when a charm concept is directly built upon in a specific order. Like I've never felt a need to have Solars be structured in terms of trees just because the base games have them structured in terms of tree.
>>92874956Nta but as an Infernalfag, I support fun super effects for everyone. Why should Sidereals get to hog all the actually fun Charms? Why can't Abyssals pull a not!Domain Expansion to erupt Shadowlands abiding by certain tenets or "scar" Creation itself similar to ExCoD's Burn mechanics with slashes of corrosive Oblivion, and why shouldn't Solars be able to customise Ascendant Battle Visage or perhaps empower favoured familiars/allies with spirits stats or something?
>>92875457the most annoying thing about this general is when someone suggests an interesting charm then someone says "DURR SOUNDS LIKE A SIDEREAL CHARM" because the only thing they know about sidereals is that they get weird charms and not WHY they got those weird charms. granted, it is kind of shit when a splat literally gets an actual-in-the-book sidereal charm, but all Exalt types should have fun, weird and unique things.
how's it going nogame noread central?
>>92875654This thread is higher quality than usual, probably because you weren't here for most of it.
>>92875457Sidereals... don't. They don't hog fun charm effects. If anybody's doing that, it's Infernals. Nobody else is out here ascending into higher and more esoteric beings anymore, because they got to it first and repeatedly made it clear that they had banned anybody else from doing the same. Nobody else is building worlds out of their souls for the same reason. Nobody else gets anything on the level of Infamy, the strongest merit in the Age of Sorrows. Nobody gets to change what Infernals are so that they aren't shutting everybody else with entitled bitch crybaby whining whenever somebody else is doing better than them at something they want to be good at.>Why can't Abyssals pull a not!Domain Expansion to erupt Shadowlands abiding by certain tenets or "scar" Creation itself similar to ExCoD's Burn mechanicsAbyssals can do that, why are you adding extraneous mechanics to limit what they can already do? If they could do it better you'd cry that Infernals aren't on par.>why shouldn't Solars be able to customise Ascendant Battle Visage or perhaps empower favoured familiars/allies with spirits stats or something?They literally can and you just don't think the way it's done in canon editions is cool because it doesn't match up exactly and precisely to what's in your head until you remember that you can stunt and reflavor in actual games. Also, if they were better at Shintai than Infernals you'd complain that Infernals needed more because it's a big thing for them, and if they were better at making spirits you'd complain that Infernals should be better at it because they're the demon Exalted.I use 'you' to generalise all Infernalfags, to be clear. I understand that you, the Infernalfag I am talking to, might not find yourself holding exactly these opinions, especially as you haven't actually experienced the instigating elements.
>>92875824NTA but Infernals get those things in compensation for being a lot more restrictive overall than Abyssals or Solars.
>>92875654It continues to be a dumpster fire of people with badwrongopinions disagreeing with my goodrightopinions.So eh, still better than the official forums and the Discord at least.>>92875824>you'd cry that Infernals aren't-You're making a lot of assumptions. I want everyone to be cool.>They literally canUnwritten Charms don't count.
>>92824869What are they gonna do with Oliphemus now that Desus was AXCKHTUALLY a puppy-petting orphan-adopting flower-picking old-lady-helping-across-street goody two shoes?
>>92876038>Unwritten Charms don't count.>Customise Ascendant Battle VisageIf you're asking for unique customization for particular charms... that's literally what custom charms are for. You can't say 'Why don't we have custom charms' and then say custom charms don't count.>Abyssal Domain ExpansionI was actually referring to a few different canon charms and spells that let them go shadowland or pop out otherworldly field effects if they have certain set ups, like Shroud-Crossing Miasma, Nightmare-Carving Murmur, Clay of Warped Dreams, or Anguished Shade Harvest. >Solars empowering favored familiars/alliesSolars do have charms that empower/train familiars. The corebook charm doesn't give them spirit stats, sure... but you can Imbue Amalgam or Soul Seal or make a prosthetic or Power-Awarding Prana just fine. I actually like that they're not turning animals into spirits as a canon effect, because I don't particularly like it when Exalted go too far off-theme. Survival is survival-y, animals and wilderness and ranger shit amped up to extremes, but the interaction between Survival and spirits that I would expect would be working out how to avoid them or work alongside them in the first place, not make more of them. Also, something like 80% of 3e's Solar Survival is familiar buffing, but neither I nor you care about 3e let's be real, I just figured I'd mention it as an aside.
>>92873812>"I made this exigent with multiple charm trees!"Liar
>>92876084>What are they gonna do with Oliphemus now that Desus was AXCKHTUALLY a puppy-petting orphan-adopting flower-picking old-lady-helping-across-street goody two shoes?Oliphemus? You mean Sir Conveniently Not-Appearing-In-This-Film?>captcha: SWANK
>>92876084Does it matter? Oliphem wasn't exactly a major and crucial part of the setting in the previous editions.
>>92876594It's just gretching over Solars being whitewashed into more pure heroes (for that one fucking all-or-nothing idiot who can't see grey, I do mean 'more' not 'absolutely') in 3e.
>>92876245>You can't say 'Why don't we have custom charms' and then say custom charms don't count.again not that anon but there is a massive distinction between having something integrated in the charmsets or suggested in material (such as Charm Seeds) versus custom charms, because the latter is far more contentious 99 percent of conversations about what a splat should and should not be able to do. This is pretty important when it comes to shaping the perceptions players both new and old, so saying "okay just make a custom charm" immediately misses the forest for the trees.
>>92876594He plays a crucial role in 2e's endgame.
>>92876808What endgame? Is this some RotSE thing?
>>92876904Yes. Like it or not, it's the canonical endgame of Second Edition.
>>92876998So’s it ending with the Locusts CrusadeDespite what people complain about, 2E doesn’t really have a single metaplot, just possibilities
>>92877050Don't reply to the troll anon
>>92865530You made a mistake too.The Immaculate d followers know that the greater elemental dragons and the Immaculate Dragons are separate entities they also don't worship either.The greater elemental dragons are unknowable and better left to their duty keeping creation running.While the immaculate dragons who are shown as DBs that incarnate each GED are rol models more than anything hell really advanced students know that the immaculate s are amalgamations of deed by different DBs during the usurpation and the name of each immaculate dragon is not the name of it's corresponding GED as they are separate beings.Only peasants actually worship the immaculate dragons(and dragon bloods but is not well looked upon).
>>92865182>This anon got BTFO'd by 3e fansDamn
>>92877362To be fair, 1e and 2e people think the same way as well.
>>92876776>again not that anon but there is a massive distinction between having something integrated in the charmsets or suggested in material (such as Charm Seeds) versus custom charms, because the latter is far more contentious 99 percent of conversations about what a splat should and should not be able to do. This is pretty important when it comes to shaping the perceptions players both new and old, so saying "okay just make a custom charm" immediately misses the forest for the trees.Okay, but in this case they're asking for custom versions of a charm or custom expansions to that charm. The thing is, there's nothing making it clear that the particular charm they've singled out should have customisation options beyond that any charm can be customised, other than that it's one of the 'cool' charms in the Solar set. You could just as easily choose Eye of the Unconquered Sun for personalised flair, or styles for Wyld Shaping Technique, or Fivefold Bulwark Stance, or whatever. The question expands to 'why doesn't everything have customisation options encouraged by the system' and the answer is that it does.>>92877312I... didn't say that they worshipped the Immaculate Dragons, though. I think you're referring to me saying they taught the Immaculates stuff and that the idea is that you refine yourself according to those ideals to reincarnate closer to perfection in your next life, and that they're revered as the perfect beings to aspire towards... but that's all canon. Here's a picture of where I'm getting most of it.
>>92876662If there's no examples of Solars becoming wicked tyrants and mistreating their peers and subjects, there's no point to the setting.
>>92877416Let me turn that back around on you: Do you think there is a point to 3e?
>>92876998I'm pretty sure I eemember seeing the very people who write RotSE making clear that it's not the canonical endgame of anything, just one possible scenario.>>92877416That's true, but Oliphem's not really necessary to showcase that.
>>92877429After seeing what they've done with it? No.
>>92874230Because the polaroid are supposed to trade advantages and disadvantages.>SolarsNot cursed and free access to powers, no extra gimmicks and not seen as bad guy by default>Abyssals free access supernals but are cursed by default, extra gimmicks and creature of darkness>Infernals Restricted supernals, not cursed, tons of gimmicks and creature of darkness.
>>92877455>I'm pretty sure I eemember seeing the very people who write RotSE making clear that it's not the canonical endgame of anything, just one possible scenario.This still makes it the only possible canon scenario.
>>92877731>the very people who write RotSE making clear that it's not the canonical endgame of anything, just one possible scenario.>This still makes it the only possible canon scenario.
>>92876662I feel like there's been more examples than that. First one that comes to mind that 3e retains the story of Pherenike, Harp of Morning, tearing her Dragon-blooded retainer, Oreithyia, apart for the crime of treading on Pherenike's garden and none of the other First Age Solars (even those outraged by it) doing anything about it.
endings probably has the most boring charms outside of Terminal Sanction and Burn Life. Can someone convince me otherwise?
So, godblooded that reach essence 4 become a spirit, right? And using endowment charms costs a spirit a dot of essence to turn someone into a godblooded, right?Would sacrificing that dot potentially knock a god/demon/whatever back into mortalhood? My gut says no, but I find the mental image hillarious
>>92877524The problem with Signature Charms is do to being tied to Shintais and the way Shintais work. Sure, on paper it makes sense to balance them by making them more restricted than others, but in practice this means they're only relevant in combat. You made a character that completely neglects combat? Too bad, enjoy your killy Charm.
>>92880620>And using endowment charms costs a spirit a dot of essence to turn someone into a godblooded, right?No
>Enters /exg/>posts opinion>farms rants>refuses to explain>leavesAlternatively>posts homebrew>farms cheers>explains briefly>leavesReminder that there are the most efficient ways to post on /exg/, never actually expect to change anyone's mind about anything ever
>>92881148You get a fucking personal hell and to easily turn people into demons.
>>92881178Actually, yes, according to the Scroll of Heroes at least. The same bit that added Endowment charms allow Eclipsoids to turn mortals into Half-Castes includes a bit that spirits can turn mortals into godblooded if they're willing to sacrifice essence to do itOddly, it doesn't specify how much, just that it costs them permanent Essence to do so
>>92882027But what if I don't want to farm rant or cheers, just to discuss Exalted?>>92882055That seems pretty much unrelated to what anon said.
>>92880151Yes. It's just one possible scenario of many possible scenarios, but there is only one possible metaplot scenario that also happens to be canonically possible in 2e, and it's RotSE.>>92880396Endings has had a lot of changes over editions. I think it was pretty comprehensive and good in 1e, pretty bad in 2e, and really bad in 3e - but in 3e it's mostly because the charmset isn't finished and especially Endings/Secrets aren't done yet in the preview. I think Burn Life is honestly kind of uninteresting beyond theoretical lifespan debates. Terminal Sanction is one of their cooler charms in every edition, but I also like many of their Awareness charms too. Supernal Awareness, Expected Pain, etc. They're interesting and pretty core to the Sidereal experience even if they're hard to run for.
>>92882793>but there is only one possible metaplot scenario that also happens to be canonically possible in 2eNope, there's also the Locust Crusade
>>92882824That's 1e, not a 2e scenario.
>>92882027This is every single general though.I think the best parts of /exg/ is when people collectively make homebrew to solve something, but a lot of people here are actually mentally unable to do it so they just make limp wristed idea guy suggestions rather than commit to anything because they don't want to get hurt by random anons.
>>92884025Nope, a good chunk of 2E’s Alchemical book is about it
>>92886902You're joking, right? It's less than a page of writing and basically says that the Alchemicals get bounced by any of the stronger nations (specifically it notes: Paragon, Lookshy, Halta, and Skullstone) with moderate to great success - not failure. Autochthon is actually at serious risk of counterinvasion by Terrestrials or Deathlords in 2e.This as compared to 1e's Locust Crusade, which is an actual scenario revolving around their military campaign.
>>92882793>there is only one possible metaplot scenario that also happens to be canonically possible in 2e, and it's RotSE.Not the Neverborn/Deathlords/Abyssals winning and annihilating Creation? Not the Solars throwing back the other forces, like the Reclamation, before they can fuck up Creation and making a new golden age?
>>92882055Yeah, but that doesn't mean that non-combat character aren't getting much out of Signature Charms while combat characters are winning harder. Also, Solars can with difficulty create mages, and Abyssals can easily create high gen vampires. I'd say fomori are usually better than the vampires, but still. Also, I think Abyssals should get their own kingdom Charm where they carve a place out in the Labyrinth. Solars should get some Charms that make people who work for them and organizations they're in charge of work better, giving them more mundane control. Maybe the equivalent of that Umbra corrupting Charm Infernals have, except it doesn't require human sacrifice and makes the spirits in the local Umbra view you as the ruler of the land.>>92882124Weird, because demons don't seem to have that problem in the Infernals book where it talks bout using Endowment to turn people into Demon-Blooded.>>92882824>>92887056The idea behind the Locust Crusade is fine, it was the implementation that was bad.
>>92884033I'm often said one ideas guy. This has nothing to do with the should have, would have, could have I usually complain about, but I have a lot of homebrew I've never shared with anyone. Here, have my custom Lunar ExWoD Charms. Not happy with all of them, but whatever.
>>92882746Well then you're in the wrong thread, because people don't "discuss" Exalted here.They just scream their objectively wrong opinions at your subjectively right ones, and then throw temper tantrums and pretend like you're committing some sort of cardinal sin for not "playing Exalted the right way" based on an obscure value system vaguely related to the idea that 1e is the gospel truth despite 1e itself being so fucking incoherent the idea of it being oWoD's prehistory was dropped before launch (even though subsequent editions of Exalted kept winking and nodding at oWoD for literally no reason) and half the preserved author quotes about Lunars about how their barbarian ecoterrorist shtick is actually very smart.>>92884033Eh some are better than others. /dg/ over on /vg/ is actually pretty laid back, probably because literally everyone is in agreement that Bungie has irreparably butchered the lore, and every surviving NPC is cringe.> think the best parts of /exg/ is when people collectively make homebrew to solve something, but a lot of people here are actually mentally unable to do it so they just make limp wristed idea guy suggestions rather than commit to anything because they don't want to get hurt by random anons.Agreed, but also the homebrewing talent seems to be confined to a handful of people so /exg/ inevitably ends up circlejerking over names more than the average general. And to be fair, why shouldn't it? I sure as fuck have nothing to contribute to Argument About The Purpose Of Lunars #53 or Someone Malding At Infernals Being Fun While Missing The Appeal Of Infernals Completely #25 but I can appreciate Seat Admiral's art or QEanon putting his money where his mouth is and running the UCS vs Cecelyne. Who am I to say that whatever worthless contribution I have to make about a game that currently releases like 1-2 books every year because Rich is a Leech, is worth more than the whims of a man who can draw the Incarnae playing strip poker?
>>92889997Also I really like Wasp of the Labyrinth trick, and am curious what Silver Parasitic Wasp does when it apparently requires Gnosis.
>>92889997I’ve written a number for my ExWoD campaign. Off the top of my head->School Becomes Shark Formation [3-Dots Changeing Moon]: The Lunars are the divine alpha, able totransform any rabble into a fiercesome horde with body language alone. System: Spend 2 Essence while in the presence of a Battlegroup. The Battlegroup receives benefits to its effective Size for determining attack, damage, soak, and health equal to the Lunar's Essence [max: 5]. This does not increase the Size of the unit itself for purposes such as reforming after a rout. This Charm lasts until it is used again on a different Battlegroup or the Battlegroup disbands. This Charm may only be used on one Battlegroup at a time and the Lunar need not remain its presence to maintain this benefit.> Sin Eater Defense [1-dot Daybreak] Masters of death, the Abyssal may forbid its touch on those still useful. System:Reflexively spend 1 Essence or 1 Willpower whenever a character the Abyssal is aware of would be killed. The Abyssal may specifically use this when he himself may die. They are instead only Incapacitated. This is explicitly a violation of the Neverborn Curse. It may only effect the same character once per Scene.>City-Building Orchestral [2 dot Lanka Charm] the Infernal builds her kingdom on rock and roll. System: Reflexively spend 1 Essence and roll STA+Performance [DC 7]. For the rest of the Scene the Infernal gains +1 Soak per success, at the cost of emanating loud booming music from her person adding DC+2 to Stealth rolls. This music can be quieted to a din, but cannot be ended without ending the Charm.1/2
>>92890305>Jade Empress Regalia [5-dot Lanka] Prerequisite: Viridian Legend Exoskeleton; Drawing on memories of when the Wheel first began to turn, the Demon Empress forms yet mightier armor for herself. System: The Infernal is granted a miraculous suit of armor that is formed as a Wonder with a Rank equal to her Essence Rating that is immune to Paradox. This Wonder is created by the Infernal and the Storyteller working in concert, and is recreated each time the Infernal raises her Essence Rating. By default this armor is held Elsewhere until it is needed, and may be summoned by taking a Simple Action to form it over her body [or by reflexively spending 1 Essence]. It may be banished reflexively. This armor cannot be removed or given to another character, pieces that are removed disappear moments later into wisps of green Essence. If the armor is destroyed or damaged it reforms Elsewhere at dawn when the Infernal next renews her Essence. Unlike traditional armor, Viridian Legend Exoskeleton's benefits stack with the armor created by this Charm. While wearing this armor all Stealth actions automatically fail.>Opening the Gates of Pandemonium [5-dot General Charm, Prerequisite The King and the Kingdom] System: The Infernal no longer requires specific circumstances in which to meditate in order to enter her Hell, she may do so anywhere. Moreover by spending 5 Essence and a full minute in concentration the Infernal may open a portal to a pre-set location within her Hell. This location is selected when learning this Charm and can only be changed by spending eight hours in deep meditation willing it so. Beings who pass through the portal will arrive in the Hell, and natives of the Hell may exit by the same method. Spirits who do so must pay the Essence cost to Materialize if entering physical reality but may do so regardless of Gauntlet Rating. This portal lasts for a Scene. Moreover, the Hell itself has an additional 25 points with which to expand itself.2/3
>>92890331I’m missing a few like True Form Mastery [Lunar Charm which gives one Rage Form bonuses in human form, but not aspects], Spreading the Wyld Roots [a wombo-combo which lowers Soak by DC+1 for each successful hit in a flurry], and Vitriolic Corona Endowment, a weapon mirror of Jade Empress Regalia.3/3
>>92890305>AI art.Uh... is onyx path also using it for official products?
>>92890618No it’s just something I made for my Abyssal’s Solar past life fighting Isidoros. It’s not very good, but I have gotten good results for my PCs.
>>92889540>Weird, because demons don't seem to have that problem in the Infernals book where it talks bout using Endowment to turn people into Demon-Blooded.Huh, that is weird, never noticed that before. Scroll of Heroes explicitly calls out gods and demons not liking to use Endowment charms that way because of the Essence sacrifice, but it does seem completely gone in Infernals, perhaps it's a retcon?
>>92891319>but it does seem completely gone in Infernals, perhaps it's a retcon?or they forgot
>>92891319>>92891338Unless it's temporary, I don't see why anyone would do it. Demons do it to reward people, but if it's that ruinous they'd never do it.
>>92891338Also a possibility>>92891376I would assume it would say something about pulling it back then. There are a number of spirit charms (mostly related to raising a mortal's essence) that requires them to commit the motes till it's raised or they pull it back removing the benefit.Demon-Blooded Endowment doesn't seem to have that, in fact, looking at it's duration it appears to be permanent....Wait, could that be what the books mean by permanent sacrifice of Essence? Noninstant charms don't allow you to regain the motes used in them till they're done, and if it's permanent that means the demon won't get those motes back (maybe if the mortal dies or something?)Maybe not, the standard version of Endowment Spirit charm is just one scene according to Roll of Glorious DivinityI'm more inclined to assume they retconned it or forgot honestly
Infernal cultists can summon demons, but what can Solar cultists summon?
>>92891561Also demons
>>92891573Those are called Anathema anon, and they worship them, not summon them
>>92891633They can do both. Easier to worship something if it's right in front of you, after all.
I think I'd prefer it if tabletop books in general only have a single quality illustration per chapter + covers and focused on having good layout and readability. OPP could probably get better art if they cut down on it in total instead of giving it out as backer rewards.
>>92891561Depends on the Anathema. One of my Solar player's cult members could summon a horde of nomadic horse archer tiger warriors, for example. I had a Twilight whose cult formed up and around her manses and other persistent works, and they got taught the complicated interplay of ritual behaviour and action needed to use and abuse those things to their advantage. That included things like the exact wordings of her task-bound demon's bindings and how to word requests to exploit them, which buttons to push to turn on the flood controls, where the traps are, how to maintain and navigate the hedge maze, stuff like that.
>>92891319Scroll of Heroes was the only book to have that in. It didn't exist in Player's Guide in 1e.
>>92890225>Who am I to say that whatever worthless contribution I have to make about a game that currently releases like 1-2 books every year because Rich is a Leech, is worth more than the whims of a man who can draw the Incarnae playing strip poker?u posting your own stuff or contributions doesn't detract from others. don't put yourself down like that anon
>>92891319Maybe demons are just better than gods, ever thought about that?
>>92891913This. Either make the best picture book you can, or accept your limitations and make a mostly text book with a few good pictures. Glitch has the right idea, with an evocative background layout for each page and sparse but well illustrated pictures of Strategists doing Strategists things. But I'm pretty sure nobody actually plays Glitch outside of Jenna's Discord.
>>92893272>But I'm pretty sure nobody actually plays Glitch outside of Jenna's Discord.I suggest it every time I'm ending an old game and starting something new, but I have yet to have a single player say yes and I'd rather play good with people I know are decent than interesting with randoms.
>>92893960>Exalted is growing stale, what else can we play?>I have an idea! You see, you play a band of retired world-killing void gods that->A band of WHAT? How the fuck is that balanced?!>Well okay, when I say "world-killing" I should clarify that about 75% of your powers are elaborate smoke and mirrors tricks that risk burning out the unknowable thing that passes for your soul if overused. Illusions powerful enough to have tangible consequences on reality, mind. The remaining 25% are, I admit, arbitrary means to delete facets of reality or miracles of similar scope but trust me! It's all neatly tiered to avoid exploitation!>If you say so. So, how many dice do I have to roll to Thanos snap half the universe?>Zero>What>It's a diceless system that focuses on roleplay and character development to the extent that "spotlighting" someone to go on a monologue is an in-universe phenomena>WHAT>The NPCs defined as your metaphysical enemies also do not have statblocks in this edition, but I'm sure Nobilis 4e will fix that eventually. And besides, when you get down to it this is more of a roleplaying prompt than a traditionally understood TTRPG>Well...how do non-combat things work?>Non-miraculous>...what?>All normal skills are covered under a single skill. All PC world-killing void gods are, by default, terrible at themYeah, I can see the problems inherent in the premise being as alien to normal tabletop players as Ninuan is to Creational beings
Fuck the Unconquered CuckFuck the Hags of FateFuck the Moon Dyke and her smelly hippy sidepieceFuck Autochthon, that malformed incel turbo-autistAnd FUCK all their half-breed schizo furry shitspawnThe Day of Reckoning is upon all you cunts.
>>92877455>it's not the canonical endgame of anything, just one possible scenario.Maybe, but it's one that matches a lot of the spoilers very well. In the 2e sid book Ejava gets a vision of the empress as an akuma.
>>92864173So east are forest archers, and north are shield maidens for shield maidens. And the blessed isle are some DBlood who trained his concubines as assassins, and the Scavenger Lands are a merc company of women.
>>92895374Sorry, meant >shield maidens for ice walkers
>>92892883Rent free
>>92895223>And FUCK all their half-breed schizo furry shitspawnWhy did you single Lunars out in particular?
>>92824869Exalted source books should shorten the pre-contagion history of Creation. When solars exalt their average history knowledge is "we were god kings in the first age", "we started doing some bad shit", and "then suddenly we all died".Knowing about the primordial war is at least 5-dots of lore.
>>92895223Are you even going to mention the DBloods (who are still your biggest obstacles btw)?
>>92895668You mean the biggest cucks.Solars are back and going to eat their lunch and make them watch them fuck their nerd GFs.
>>92895659Bad take bro.The meta knowledge is good for STs and players interested in the lore.Besides 3e already granted your wish and the setting became a thousand times blander and lamer.
>>92896257>their nerd GFsAir aspects?
>>92895659precontagion history is vague and short enough already without you and devs merrily chopping at it with a machete
>>92898883It would be nice to know more about the Shogunate.
>>92890234I'm not as familiar with WoD spirits as I am with CofD, but I assume they can survive by doing wasp stuff. I mostly figured they'd likely get picked off pretty quickly by other spirits. I made this Charm because I was a fan of it when it showed up in Ink Monkeys.
>>92898883How long is precontagion history? 1500 years?
>>92899156>>928988834000 Years approximately between the end of the Primordial War and the end of the First Age. Second Edition gives an exact timeline but Merela existing in First as a Primordial War survivor proves it was always a similar timescale. After the Usurpation there 700 years of Shogunate, then the Balorian Crusade and Contagion, then 800 years approximately of Realm. So the setting is 5500-6000 years old, not counting the Primordial Era/Time of Glory which lasted at least a few millennia and possibly millions of years.
>>92899242>Merela existing in First as a Primordial War survivor proves it was always a similar timescaleNot really the first age Exalts used sorcery and other stuff to live longer which means that the first age could have lasted much longer including the weird shit that happened during the time of cascading years.
