OK guys I have made a notable discovery about this game, are you ready for this?
>>3486976Boom.
>>3486978To clarify, my theory is that they want to erase the history of FFXI cos it's kind of an embarrassment, and this is their subtle way of trying to say "this is the real FFXI now"
>>3488115
I think Shanatotto had the potential to become a "jiant" like Reynn and Lann. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvBHi4B4bsE
>>3487124>>3488115>>3488119>>3488130Is this just bots? It's hard to tell at this point.
>>3488943Sounds like a personal problem. Get better soon.
>>3489001>Try to start a discussion about a specific thing>Only replies are a string of totally nonsensical unrelated shitposting, ending in a link to a youtube video>Thinking this is more typical of bot-behaviour than human-behaviour is an 'illness'Pretty confident it's not a problem anon.
>>3489074Sounds like you're just not familiar with the characters in the series. How exactly were you going to contribute to this topic without that? Shanatotto is from FFXIOP wants to rewrite her history. Rewriting history is Ultimecia's M.O.Shanatotto and Ultimecia had an epic showdown in NT which never gets old, even though it came out like 10 years ago. Before WoFF even. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTWfCe3CSS0
>>3489132It sounds like nobody gives a single fucking shit about these boring non-characters. >Rewriting history is Ultimecia's M.O.Also this isn't even fucking true. Ultimecia never successfully changes the past, her meddling is what directly leads to her downfall, which she was trying to prevent.
>>3489143Yeah my understanding is that she doesn't want to rewrite history, she wants to literally destroy time.
>>3489157She wants to compress time as a last ditch "fuck you" to the people she views as oppressing her.There are two major closed time loops, 1. Ultimecia accidentally founding SEED, 2. Ultimecia purposefully leading to the creation of Junction Machine Ellone, which she uses to manipulate people in the past. The former is shown on screen, the latter stated but not really shown/Linear chronology>Ultimecia travels back in time with Squall and passes her power to Edea, Squall warns Edea to create SEED to stop Ultimecia's plan to compress time>Ultimecia possesses Edea to try to take out SEED before they become a threat>Edea is freed>Ultimecia attempts to compress time, allowing Squall and friends to come forward in time and beat her assfrom Ultimecia's POV>Ultimecia awakens her sorceress powers and finds out there is an entire paramilitary organization dedicated to kicking her ass and ultimately killing her>Ultimecia tries to destroy them in her time, which fails, leading to her castle being put under siege. >Ultimecia junctions herself to Edea, to try to destroy SEED. Fails.>Ultimecia begins time compression.>Squall and bros use that to come forward and kick her ass.>Time compresses. Ultimecia goes back and gives Edea her power.This also means there are at least two "lineages" of Sorceress powers, one that flows from Adel to Ultimecia to Edea and one that flow from Edea to Rinoa onward.
>>3489143M.O. stands for "modus operandi"; their methods. Not things realized, "opera res".What would you have us do? Compare and contrast the plots of FFXI and WoFF?FFXI is an online game with various story arcs. But it ultimately culminates in Rapsodies of Vana'diel which has a time traveler from the future using the power of the phoenix to guide her sensei (you), to fight off the Cloud of Darkness with the power of friendship. WoFF is a multiverse setting. Mainly set in Grymoire. Where twin protagonists Lann and Reynn collect monsters like pokemon to drive back a destroyer of worlds. The "lillikins" are impressions of facets FF heroes. Aside from monsters and summons there are no FF villains, much like Kingdom Hearts, except for a cameo by Sephiroth. Playing FF7 Rebirth might tell you why.
>>3489170Silence, schizo retard. Go read an actual fucking book.
>>3487519its a beloved mmo that is still played to this day what are you talking about
>>3489170Please see>>3487519This was the point being made, not about similarities. You're overthinking it.
>>3489179You know what a grimoire *is*, don't you? The scholar job quests is arguably the most interesting in XI.
>>3489180No, that would be XIV. XI was a failure and forgotten by almost everyone>b-b-but people still play it!There's always some small group of die-hard fans playing anything.
>>3489170>>3489182What the hell are you even trying to argue?! What point are you trying to make??
>>3489184Your knowledge of the games isn't debatable. It speaks for itself.
>>3489184Just ignore his threads. He's a shitposting theorycrafting schizo who talks to himself until his threads die.
>>3489203
>>3489203Ahh thank you, makes more sense now. Any chance of this thread getting back on topic, or is it basically lost now the schizo is here?
>>3489395The only person not talking about the game is (you).
>>3489395There's not point. Lore schizo's threads are only made so he can share his thoughts/diatribes and hardly anyone engages with him outside an occasional comment reacting to his posts. The only time he was ever interesting, imo, is when he analyzed FF16's contradictory lore during Rising Tide's DLC, which was a good showcase of how loosely thought out the game's story/lore was written after the base game.He's got a knack for details, I'll say that much.
>>3489395>>3489915Also read the posts in >>3489392 for a better idea of who he is.
>>3489917lol, I'm the OP of this thread, the first anon you replied to out of those two, and also the anon you've linked to in the other thread.I just did this thread as a little joke cos I noticed something I thought was funny, and took the opportunity to shit on XI a little, but man how the fuck is it even possible to discuss FF on this board (or I suspect any board) without it being drowned out by one sperglord's overwhelming autism? There has to be a way, right?
>>3489132Could Vana'diel be a FF14 shard world?
>>3489915>He's got a knack for details, I'll say that much.The majority of his details are straight up wrong. He tried to do this shit with Xenosaga/Xenogears a few months back and got utterly humiliated.
>>3489960It's a theory. But probably not the same Vana'diel. It would probably be different in some fundamental way.
>>3489976A gay theory.
>>3493055You could've just let the thread die.
>>3493062There were two FF-related threads and they both got necro'd from page 10 by a short meaningless post. Someone is keeping these things alive....
>>3493983They're not contributing to the topic. If by "alive" you mean "on the board", so what? If it falls off someone could make another one. Hell, they don't even have to wait for that. I could make another one right now if I wanted to. Your disengagement means nothing. You are not content.
>>3494633I think you're replying to the wrong person. I'm not the person keeping the threads alive. I was pointing out that it seems someone is doing just that though. I agree with you that it's fucking pointless, and yet here we are, someone keeps necroing these threads. My guess would be the resident schizo...
God, 8 is convulted as fuck
>>3494802>t. doesn't understand the plot of 8
We're not talking about 8. We're talking about 11 and WoFF. Although elements of 8 appear in WoFF. You can talk about those if you want.
>>3495018Or we can talk about japanese pop culture in the 80s and 90s that seeded the ideas in games that the rest of the world would be oblivious to. I mean, what is Japan known for? Kaiju and Mechas!
>>3495044I'm sure you're all familiar with Kaiju and Mechas, but where do they come from? If you had the misfortune of watching the American Power Rangers, which spliced together footage from the Japanese Sentai Rangers, there was no back story. These things just existed since time immemorial, and the bad guys had no real backstory. The Witch Rita Repulsa was just evil for evil's sake. She was defeated by Power Rangers in the distance past and sealed on the moon until she escapes, and starts sending monsters down from the moon to destroy the power rangers.
>>3495053But in the japanese source material, she was the Witch Bandora. She wasn't sealed on the moon. But on a small red planet called Nemesis. She had a very elaborate backstory as well. Being responsible for the extinction of the dinosaurs for starters.
The villains with the real moon base as the Baranoia Empire aka The Machine Empire. The American version gave them no origin story. Just a bunch of robots conquering space until they came to earth and kicked Rita to the curb. In the Japanese version, The Baranoria Empire has it origins on Earth billions of years ago on Pangea. Yes. Humans existed on Pangea. And they were technologically advanced. Creating a power grid emitted by super structures. They lived alongside a god race called Dorin who creating robot servants that overthrew them. One such robot became Emperor Bacchus Wraith who built the Baranoria Empire. I can only speculate on the significance of his name. A wine god. Fury. Leading an army of robots. In World of Final Fantasy, the Cogna invade other worlds and only come to Grymoire because Lann and Reynn were tricked into opening a portal. Although it seems there are multiple portals. And Balamb Garden (A sleeping Eidolon Eden)
>>3495079...and Balamb Garden was sealing one such portal inside it. Why? Essentially Balamb Garden is a Mecha. Like Alexander. Although we only see it become mobile in FF8, conceptually it was planned to combine with the other gardens into a giant robot. To fight what? FF8 didn't have the kaiju known as WEAPONS from FF7. But maybe there were Jiant monsters on the moon. Or invading from another dimension like Pacific Rim.
>>3495084
>>3495084In FF11 Alexander was defeated by Odin who then took over the/a afterlife in the absence of the evil god Promathia. Basically after the first race, the Zilart, tried to open the gates of the gods. Promathia created beastmen to keep the new races too occupied from doing the same thing. Also, everyone's soul is a part of him. So reviving him means everyone dies. Or everyone dies, and he revives. Same thing I guess. He's like Omega WEAPON in Dirge of Cerberus. Or some incarnation of "Chaos". In FF13, everyone's soul is made up of Chaos, but this was just a substance as far as we know. That said...there might have been plans for Chaos to be an entity in FF13-2. Odin and the other Transformer-Eidolons basically hangout in Valhalla. Which is almost an Afterlife. Fragment data mysteriously references a "prisoner". Originally the time gates were portals created by the Fal'cie Eden. Which means the portal Eden was sleeping on, in WoFF, was probably a portal to the future.
>>3495149Imagine, instead of Ultimecia as the final boss of FF8, you'd have to fight a bunch of Machines created by the Galbadia Military.
Speaking of Transformers and afterlives. Transformers the animated series was big in the 80s. They also had an afterlife of sorts. Although it varies across continuities. You basically had an Alexander x Odin dichotomy. Or Primus x Unicron. Good x Bad. Heaven x Hell. You get the picture. The Transformer afterlife was inside a supercomputer at the heart of Cybertron called Vector Sigma. A collective consciousness. Something that is only mention in FF13's expanded novels is the digital afterlife for L'cie. The game says that L'cie who complete their focus are turned to crystal as a reward to be kept by the Fal'cie. This isn't untrue either. The Fal'cie scan the crystalilized brains of the L'cie and make digital copies of them to live on, in a Digital Paradise within Eden. The novels reveal that during the final battle in FF13, a digital version of Cid was helping keep Eden and the rest of Cocoon afloat.
A connection between the (good) Bahamut and the Cogna is never made. But you can tell from his design that he has jet engine turbines. Making him some kind of Dragon Machine hybrid. In FF11, Bahamut basically exists for genocide. As I mentioned earlier, everyone has to die to revive the God Promathia. So if a cosmic level threat appears, such as "the emptiness", that only the Gods can handle, then Bahamut has the responsibility of making Promathia whole...by killing all life.
>>3495173That said. Everyone lending their soul to summon Captain Planet might not be so bad if their memories were stored in a crystal matrix supercomputer to be stored for another time. That's sort of what the Mothercrystals are for. Resurrection is the Phoenix's job as well. In fact, in FFType-0 they reboot the world continuously with the memories of the dead saved in the crystals.
Oh right. I was talking about Kaiju.
>>3495187Could you put all your lore into fewer but longer posts? Would make it much easier to read.
>>3495454People actually prefer 300 character posts with a related image. Rather than the max 2000 character limit with an image that only relates 1 paragraph or sentence. >>3495197Godzilla is Japan's "Eikonic" Kaiju. But more recently, the anime Attack on Titan has enjoyed popularity. Although "Titan" is an unfortunate naming convention because they would be better called Jotunns from Norse mythology. But I suppose the term "Jotunn" was widely used in other media at the same time. The people that turn into titans are called Subjects of Ymir. The first giant. In the anime, the Eldians used titans to build their civilization. Or at the very least, their walls. "Eld" means fire or flame. But can also refer structures or implements that use fire. Like a campfire or a firebrand.
>>3495745Fire is just associated with BIG things. Of course to build skyscrapers you need industry and steel. But a younger hotter Earth is also associated with megaflora and megafauna. Pop culture likes to conflate everything that's "prehistory". As if dinosaurs were swimming in lava pools.
>>3495749FF11's "prehistory" is fairly interesting in how mysterious it is. The timeline really begins with a supernova, the destruction of Alexander. Although the opening movie says:>It all began with a stone, Or so the legend says. In ages past, a sentient jewel, enormous and beautiful banished the darkness.Indeed there was a flood of light. So bright, there was no night. We know of Zilart race and their destruction. But the genesis of the new races is vague. The was an "Olduum" civilization that created automations, and presumably Alexander. Shantotto, under the alias Karababa, went to research the Olduum ruins. And the "Astral Candescence"
>>3495745>Peoplewow, good thing you know what everyone prefers, or you might have to think about doing things differently!
>>3496027>it assigned itself plurality
>>3495764I recall a scene somewhere in the game where Alexander and Odin are talking to each other. They weren't in their usual forms. They were floating heads or something. And Alexander was like "Oh yeah, I remember the Astral Candescence. Humans still use that?"
>>3495745Another "Eikon" would be King Kong. But sticking to anime, the nearest equivalent would be Dragon ball's "Great Ape".The original series was a spin on "Journey to the West" and Goku was essentially a monkey god. It was only revealed in DBZ that Goku was of an alien race called the Saiyans, with a quirk of transforming into great apes during a full moon...so long as they have their tail. He was actually meant to eradicate all life and claim the planets resources for themselves. Basically the same thing as Zidane in FF9. Only Zidane never transforms into a giant ape. At best you could call his trance "semi-primed". It would be funny if Zidane was a Dominant. But Final Fantasy doesn't have an ape summon that I can think of.
>>3496230Technically, Zidane's tail is supposed to be a panther. It was originally black, but the devs changed it's color for better visibility. Not that we ever saw panthers on Gaia.
>>3496233A werepanther attack was a plot point in Chrono Cross. In retrospect it was a superficial detail as the game kind of ended prematurely.
>>3496242Demi-humans existed, but they were a result of mixing with draconians - evolved reptites seen in Chrono Trigger, that should have been extinct. My understanding is that Serge's DNA was altered by the werepanther's bite, binding him to the Reptite/Draconian timeline. Even though he looked human. It's implied that humans wouldn't exist without the frozen flame, a part of Lavos. They would have just been dumb monkeys, or possibly evolved into giant apes to be subdued by the dragon master race. Who knows?
STOP FUCKING SPAMMING YOU FUCKING FAGGOT PIECE OF SHITI AM TIRED OF GOING INTO THREADS AND HAVING THREE FUCKING QUARTERS OF THEM BEING YOU TALKING TO YOURSELF
In WoFF the monsters come in different sizes. small, medium, large, and XL. XL are basically the summon creatures. Although even the summons like Ifrit and Shiva have lesser forms to be used in stacks.
>>3496247Another kaiju in the final fantasy series is FFX's Sin. I've drawn connections between it and Chrono Cross' Dragon God. Although it's name would be more accurately spelled "Shin"
The "supreme" god in DBZ is also named Shin. Since DBZ is based on Journey to the West, it's only natural it has a Chinese Bureaucratic Afterlife. The station of "supreme god" is transitional and power levels don't scale like you'd imagine. Most of the kais are pretty inept at doing anything on their own, and have to recruit fighters to work for them feel originated with the Dragon Quest games. In FF11, the Gods are Promathia and Altana.Altana created the player races while Promathia created the beastmen. As I mentioned earlier the races are meant to fight each other to distract each other so nobody attempts to open the gate of the gods like the Zilart attempted. Although, Shantotto could probably do it. The Dissidia games use Shantotto in this manner. In Dissidia 012 she was the personal body guard of the Goddess Cosmos. While in NT Cosmos and Chaos are replaced with Materia and Spiritus. Although she is personally summoned by Materia, Shantotto has no interest in the perpetual conflict and doesn't think Materia is very bright for a Goddess. Shantotto's villain counterpart in NT is Kam'Lanaut one of the Zilart Princes that attempted to open the Gate of the Gods in FF11. He cared little for sustaining the world as it was if the possibility of leaving it was an option.
>>3496307Given all of Kam'Lanaut's quotes are about reaching paradise (what was supposed to be on the other side of the gate) it's surprising that he wasn't chosen to appear in the DLC for Stranger of Paradise.
>>3496307>The "supreme" god in DBZ is also named Shin.FFS do you really have no concept of how fucking retarded you are?>>3496247I was hoping I could convince it to condense the posts into longer single posts, to make them easier to ignore, but alas it is too autistic. I'm not sure why anyone would actively want to destroy any and all discussion of a beloved franchise, but this is easily the most successful attempt I've ever seen. Various agents that have been trying to bring 4chan down for years now could learn a lot from this guy. I'm loathed to abandon a thread I created but I think I'll have to at this rate for my own sanity. Guess I'll just move on to a different untainted franchise... any suggestions? I've been considering picking up some Dragon Quest games.
>>3497087Shin was the Supreme Kai of the East. Had his dominion included lands from the bible he'd be incharge of The Garden of Eden, which was planted in the "East". What else is in the east? The Sunrise. Which only makes sense on a planetary scale. This direction is also associated with the Azure Dragon. There's a lot of symbolism regarding "east" that I won't go into. The 4 direction God-Beasts are the Azure Dragon, Vermillion Bird, Black Tortoise, and White Tiger. In FF11, these beasts happen to be monsters that can be spawned in the Ru'aun Gardens. They dropped decent gear back when the level cap was like 75. Now it's not worth the walk. The Gardens are essentially the "Gate of the Gods" that the Zillart tried to open. That might sound confusing. It's the nexus at the center of all the mothers crystals. But as I was saying before, what is "Paradise" to the Zilart?
>>3497126If you're not going to reply to the actual post, and just continue sperging your autism, then why make it a reply? Are you aware that you're talking to yourself and NOBODY cares about anything you're saying, and nobody is reading it?
>>3497380A "nobody" is what remains when people lose their heart to darkness. In FF11, instead of "Darkness" there is the "Emptiness". It's a poor name because it's an actual substance. The Zilart were a telepathic race, connected to each other. But then the emptiness started to corrupt some of them. They lost their telepathy, their "whisper of the soul". This inferior subrace was called the Kuluu.Truely, there must have been many for them to create multiple settlements. Rejected from Zilart society, they were seen as flawed. If there was anything holding the Zilart achieve utopia is was them. Kam'Lanaut. Camelot. The Emptiness granted the Kuluu a different power. The ability to summon Avatars. Prehistory is sketchy so we don't really know how long this went on or what Avatars they were summoning. But it's implied that there was violent conflict between the Zilart and the Kuluu. Eventually the Zilart tried to accept the Kuluu back into their society. But really they just wanted to declaw them. To do this they had to remove the "Emptiness" from the Kuluu and store it like nuclear waste in what is now called the Horutoto Ruins. In the present era, the Tarutaru would research these ruins and rediscover summoning magic. Karaka-Baruha in particular, who summoned Fenrir during the Crystal War and died.
This reads like Clayton retardation
>>3497585Just like Kingdom Hearts, the details of the Crystal War, Summoning Magic, and everything else is convoluted. Besides, summoning magic, the Tarutaru created automatons called Cardians. All named after card suits. Their leader was called Joker who was personally created by Karaha-Baruha. The Cardians lifeforce seems to be shared with the creator. When Karaha died, Joker shut down, and the cardians went rogue without a leader. They occupied the Horutoro Ruins and eventually reviving their leader, Joker. In doing so, they also brought back a piece of Karaha's spirit. Who appeared as a specter calling itself "The Bearer of Darkness".
>>3497593Things get even more convoluted in the Wings of the Goddess story line, where Karaja-Baruha survives in another timeline, and helps his time-clone summon Fenrir again without dying.
>>3497601>image above: Daybreak Town in Kingdom Hearts>this image: The Chancellor's Room in FF Type-0The technology in Vana'Diel never gets fully industrialized with metal gears and robots. The cardians were made from primitive materials like wood and Star tree fruit/nut shells.
>>3497607The closest it gets is Cid's Metalworks in Baskot. Cid, in FF tradition, is an inventor whose creations tend to get turned into war machines if they weren't intended to be war machines from the beginning. The world of FFType-0 is called Orience. It's divided into 4 kingdoms, with 4 crystals. The white tiger, black tortoise, azure dragon, vermillion bird...The Cid in this universe also create war machines, and Ultima Bombs. His idea is to unite the world (by force). But Orience is trapped in a timeloop, spiral, cycle of resetting . The same stuff happens in subtly different ways. It's been like this for an absurd number of times. It's suggested that normally, or in the beginning of in these cycles, Joker of Class-Zero, would assist Cid in his inventions. But they discovered that Cid's inventions were a part of destiny, and they would show up anyways even if Cid stayed out of the war and Joker did nothing.Joker is just a hooded observer in the current cycle of Type-0. But in Type-0 Agito, a mobile game featuring a different cycle, we get to see Joker's Face. He's got red hair, by his hair style is like that of Ienzo in Kingdom Hearts - who was Ansem's "assistant". They seem to be of the same archetype.
Although the Tarutaru were creating dolls and cardians, the Puppetmaster job class wouldn't be unlocked until the Treasures of Aht Urhgan expansion. These automata were based on the Olduum technology found in Aht Urhgan, along with ruins of Alexander. Allegedly the Puppetmaster job class was intended to be a necromancer. Given the lore, you can understand how that might work.
>>3497705If reanimating a cardian brought it's creator's spirit back. Imagine what reviving Olduum automata could have done.
Imagine hating Final Fantasy so much, you actively go out of your way to destroy any community or discussion surrounding it
>>3497724The only Olduum we know by name is Ramuh. Think of him as Ancient Cid. He created the automata and a bunch of other machines too. If the Zilart were trying to combine the mothercrystals. I think it's reasonable, in light of FF16, that Ramuh would have attempted to destroy them.
>>3497728
The Summons in FF11 have myths that were published in the Vana'diel Tribune. which may or may not be canon. The story of Garuda begins with a prince with a weak constitution that filled his castle with birdhouses, and raised a little jade bird from an egg. Sadly the prince was bitten by a snake, and the doctors were unfamiliar with the venom. The little bird heard of folklore about a king of birds that lived above the clouds that could command the healing wind of Vuychap (The green star in the Garuda Constellation of Vana'diel's sky). She flew as high as she could and disparied that the story was nothing but a story. She began to fall. Her short life flashed before her eyes. Remembering the prince's face was the first thing she saw when she hatched. She began flapping her wings again. And found she was transformed by the Goddess. She was able to use the winds of Vuychap to heal the prince. But she was no longer a little bird that could stand on his shoulder. But in time, the prince grew into a beefy macho man and took Garuda to be his wife. And after a happily ever after, the Goddess made Garuda a constellation.
FF11 was the first time Garuda was used as a summon. Typically it was just a monster or boss. Interestingly, WoFF doesn't feature Garuda at all, as far as I can tell. Although Garuda and Siren are closely related.
>>3497754The story mentions a small country facing a bay. But no clue where that might actually be in Vana'Diel.
>>3499228They don't say what race the prince is either. Probably not Tarutaru. Elvaan is likely since they have royalty, and carpenters. Surely they could make bird houses.
>>3499234Hmmmm. Yagudo origin story?
