he's making threads again

All tariffs are bad. Biden made a mistake.


There. It's that simple. Trump cultists will never do the same.

The move, which Biden and his aides had telegraphed in remarks earlier this spring, was promptly condemned by leading trade groups, including those representing the U.S. tech industry and large importing corporations.

But they barely elicited a peep from free traders in Congress, a dwindling population in recent years. Grassley, a 90-year-old with few reelection concerns, was one of the only lawmakers to slam Biden on tariffs, saying he was making an “election year-decision that risks serious retaliation against American producers — especially agriculture, as we’ve seen before.”

That used to be a mainstream position in the GOP, which for much of the past 40 years defined itself as pro-business and pro-free trade.

In that sense, they’ve converged with the American left, which has long criticized free trade as boosting big corporations at the expense of workers. The Democratic party’s center of gravity has increasingly moved in that direction, as well, with Biden taking a number of trade cues from lawmakers like Sens. Sherrod Brown (Ohio), Bob Casey (Pa.) and Tammy Baldwin (Wis.) who are up for reelection this year and pushed Biden this month to increase the tariffs on China.

All three of those lawmakers welcomed Biden’s move on Tuesday, while Brown pushed him to go further and enact an outright ban on Chinese vehicles entering the U.S. The administration should issue rules, he said, that include “prohibitions on finished vehicles and technology that is designed, developed, manufactured, or supplied from the People’s Republic of China.”

Democrats who had opposed tariffs on clean energy products in the past were, by contrast, more taciturn on Tuesday. Sen. Jacky Rosen (D-Nev.), who had lobbied Biden to pause solar tariffs two years ago, stopped short of criticizing the president’s decision to slap 50 percent tariffs on solar products from China.

>>1295231
>“It’s a terrible, unfortunate movement towards protectionism,” Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa), one of the few lawmakers to critique Biden’s move, told POLITICO when asked why Washington’s reaction has been so different this time around.
Could he be a bigger hypocrite if he tried?

Comments like those used to be commonplace in Washington in response to tariffs — even from Biden himself. Back in 2019, he slammed Trump’s decision to impose tariffs on China — the same tariffs he preserved this week — as “shortsighted.”

“All that [Trump’s] delivered as a consequence of [his tariffs] is American farmers, manufacturers and consumers losing and paying more,” Biden said during a campaign speech at the City University of New York.

But now, those arguments are scarce in Washington, even from Republicans who have pushed Biden to embrace more free trade policies. Rep. Adrian Smith (R-Neb.), the head of the Ways and Means trade subcommittee, has routinely said he is “no fan of tariffs” and introduced a bill on Tuesday that would renew a long-expired tariff exemption program.

Even so, he decided not to criticize Biden for raising tariffs in a Tuesday statement, instead arguing that the administration should be “rolling back policies harmful to American consumers like electric vehicle mandates” and “engaging with willing partners around the world to reduce trade barriers through enforceable trade agreements.”

Those Republican arguments are taking a cue from their party’s protectionist-in-chief: former President Trump, who slammed his 2024 rival for pursuing electric vehicle mandates. He’s also said he’s prepared to go much further than Biden to protect domestic EVs, by imposing steep tariffs on auto imports from Mexico, where Chinese companies are building electric vehicle plants.

Trump-aligned lawmakers on Capitol Hill parroted that argument on Tuesday, with Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.) calling Biden’s tariff decision “half-baked.”

“It is imperative that any updated tariff regime adequately address the extinction-level threat that Chinese vehicles — both internal combustion engine and electric — pose to American automakers and the workers they employ,” he said in a statement.

Both Trump and Biden are touting their tariff policies as they try to woo working class voters in the industrial Midwest — which has been hit particularly hard by the rise of free trade and the outsourcing of manufacturing jobs — and other swing states. Support for foreign trade dropped, nationwide, after the Covid-19 pandemic exposed key chokepoints for supplies like medical equipment, baby formula and even toilet paper.

The shift toward protectionism “comes from the grassroots,” Grassley said — “America First stuff for Republicans, and for Democrats, union outrage.”

Other lawmakers say that lessons learned since Trump first imposed tariffs on Chinese goods have convinced them Biden’s decision is the right move.

Michigan Sen. Debbie Stabenow, who attended Biden’s tariff announcement on Tuesday, said that she was concerned about Chinese retaliation against American agriculture when the tariffs were first imposed, but now sees the threat of Chinese subsidies as too big to ignore.

>Tldr; everyone agrees trump was right when it's not trump making the decision

Fucking hilarious. I can't believe a Politico journo mentioned the hypocrisy.
Ahahahaha!
See this loser for the average Dem's reaction >>1295208
>W-we d-don't like tariffs, right?!
>Fuck it FUCK YEAH BIDEN! Great way to continue your proven history of plagiarism!!!
Ahahahahaha! I'm dead.

>>1295244
How did you get this confused?

>>1295247
Well, first I got outraged at Trump for tariffs.
Then the confusion set in when Biden did it and I wasn't outraged.
It's weird. It's like I was being led around by the dick by retards or something.

>>1295248
You don't seem to have gotten the memo that Republicans are against the tariffs now. See >>1295239

>>1295249
Did you read the article?

>>1295254
I'm literally quoting the article

>>1295255
So you didn't read the article. You quoted something from?
Now that's low effort. What a faggot.

>>1295256
Whoever taught you basic damage control techniques was really bad at it.

>>1295258
It was you. IT WAS YOU!!
And you suck ass. Why even post here?

>>1295255
Read the article you faggot retard
>That used to be a mainstream position in the GOP, which for much of the past 40 years defined itself as pro-business and pro-free trade. But Grassley, the most senior member of the Senate, is increasingly an outlier in his party, which has grown far more populist and protectionist in the wake of Trump’s 2016 presidential victory.
Fucking faggot retard shit shill.

>>1295235
>All tariffs are bad.
Next you'll pretend the 100% tariffs on Japanese electronics in 1987 didn't protect the American television industry.

>>1295262
Wrong. He didn't care when Trump did it.
>>1295257

>>1295260
I've never taught a retard damage control though. Who did it for you?

>>1295231
>Besides Grassley, free trade advocates have remained largely silent.

The sole purpose of "Free Trade" is to increase profits for do-nothing Wall Street parasites, it NEVER results in better products at cheeper prices, as Wall Street simply pockets the payroll savings and _increases_ the prices to boot.

>>1295263
What? I'm not as old as you are, boomer

>>1295231
This op image is a damning indictment of the resident leftist /news/ retard

>>1295244
Good post

>>1295231
>Back in 2018, lawmakers of both parties greeted President Donald Trump’s decision to slap tariffs on Chinese imports with widespread derision.
>Six years later, most members of Congress are applauding President Joe Biden’s extension — and in some cases, expansion — of those tariffs, if not calling for him to go even further.
It's absolutely amazing how mindfucked the media made everyone. You have literally the same exact thing happening the only difference is who's doing it and it's causing a 180 change in opinion among so many people

This should be a wakeup call to those suffering from TDS

>>1295274
>>1295277
>>1295279
>>1295284
haha oh wow it's angry now

>>1295286
You poor, poor person

>>1295288
I look forward to your next angry boomer screed about TDS

>>1295284
This surprises you how?

Both parties pretty regularly enact policies and legislation that were previously "unthinkable evils" when they were enacted by the opposing party, but are somehow "righteous and just" when they do the same.

>>1295290
NTA but it's called "lowering the bar". Trump lowered it more than most.

>>1295290
It doesn't, actually.
And I think it's healthy this type of dysfunctional belief system is being called out by a major media publication

>>1295292
There you go with your mental illness again

>>1295294
>HOW DARE YOU BESMIRCH MY THOUGHT LEADER
You people are nothing if not predictable at least.

>>1295292
Seriously though
A completely reasonable and objective observation was made and you interject with "muh drumpf!!"

>>1295296
>You people are nothing if not predictable at least.
This entire op article is about the exact behavior you exhibited in your post.
It's like your so predictable the topic of the op editorial was targeting the exact post you made

>>1295297
lmao
https://www.google.com/search?q=%22trump+lowered+the+bar%22

>>1295264
Correct. Democrats didn't complain when Biden did it.

>>1295300
Ahh so you don't know the difference between news and an editorial. Very typical.

>>1295304
What the fuck is your issue? Are you sure you don't blame trump for your slew of mental illnesses too?

>>1295303
More like Republicans thought it was a good thing until Biden did it.

>>1295301
>MSNBC
>Quora
>The post independent
Not surprised, anon. I'm not surprised

>>1295306
Does it ever cross your partisan reactionary brain that maybe Trump deserves it? Can you even conceive of a thought where Trump is responsible for something bad that happened?

>>1295308
>More like Republicans thought it was a good thing until Biden did it.
Oh you can't read and you live in a fantasy land of your own delusions?
>Back in 2018, lawmakers of both parties greeted President Donald Trump’s decision to slap tariffs on Chinese imports with widespread derision.

>Six years later, most members of Congress are applauding President Joe Biden’s extension — and in some cases, expansion — of those tariffs, if not calling for him to go even further.
No doubt there are some outliers to what the article states in its opening salvo, but your delusional interpretation of reality is not objective

>>1295309
>i don't look past the first three google results
Well I guess that's par for the course for a low-info moron like you.

>>1295311
So what your saying is the 180 reversal on tariff opinions is because, in your belief, trump "deserved it"?

Absolutely delusional.

>>1295312
t. Chuck Grassley

>>1295314
Donald J. Trump made the tariffs. I'm sorry this fact sends you into hysterics.

>>1295315
No one cares what Grassley thinks so why do you keep mentioning him?
The story is Democrats and the media not falling out of their chairs and screaming about how the sky is falling.

>>1295320
>no one cares what the most senior republican thinks
Uh are you sure?

>>1295311
You miss the entire point here.
This has nothing to do with someone deserving a low opinion which trump does.

It has to do with people forming opinions of policy based not upon the merits of the policy but on what corporate media tells them they should feel about something

>>1295320
He's a robot.
His mind has been drained of any independent thoughts and he is left a mentally ill shell of a real person

>>1295322
Did you read the article?

>>1295324
It's actually a shitty troll.

>>1295316
Yeah he did..if your going to slobber biden's knob about keeping every one and raising some, you may as well line up Don's knob for a polishing too

>>1295326
Yeah I've come to realize he's just a really fkn stupid person, but sometimes it's entertaining to keep calling him what he is

>>1295231
Bro saw this on the front page and haven’t laughed that much in a month thank you!

>>1295325
I quoted the article

>>1295326
>>1295328
So let's review, you people thought tariffs were good when Trump made them, but now that Biden has renewed some of them tariffs are automatically bad again.

>>1295335
Considering he's suck Elon's cock, I'd say they aren't good.

>>1295335
Democrats are obviously trying to protect their mafioso green energy investments cartel.

>>1295343
inb4 conspiracy theory about Biden's EO's killing the oil industry

>>1295344
( ´_ゝ`)

>>1295335
I never thought they were good or bad, honestly I didn't care, and I still don't.

What I enjoy is the fact that the article is calling out this weird lemming behavior where "if trump does something it's super bad and destroys our democracy but if Biden does the same thing it it's super cool guys"

>>1295347
I disagree, there is nuance to both Trump's and Biden's position you are purposely ignoring in favor of partisan reductionist kneejerking.

>>1295350
>there is nuance to both Trump's and Biden's position
The only objective 'nuance' is Biden has a larger tariff on cars than trump you dunce
Every other tariff is the same, according to this article.

Any other nuance is in your head.

>>1295231
Tariffs are weak.
If I'm a mafia boss and i say you gotta use my garbage pick up service even though it's crap.

Or else.

Competition and having good products is is the way to go for Capitalism to work.
Protections are for the WEAK.

Many such cases.

>>1295354
this thread was only created as damage control for the other thread, in which this was already explained
>>1294983

>>1295357
He's right you know.
So is this politico article.

>>1295357
Also, Biden hasn't done any new tariffs. He kept every single trump tariff and increased the tariff on cars.

Your welcome to provide a source that states Biden created net new tariffs, because that was certainly never mentioned anywhere in any article on this board, and I don't trust yourself as a primary source when you cite yourself

>>1295374
This is wrong and you know it. >>1294984

>>1295375
That says absolutely nothing about Biden making new tariffs. It says they were all made by Trump.

What are you trying to prove here? Do you think that Biden made so many useful tariffs that CNN neglected to talk about any of them and only talked about the tariffs Trump made?

It's like you can't even read, but honestly that's what I expect out of you by now, I would honestly be surprised if you actually cited something that was relevant or supportive to your argument

>>1295381
>as well as many Chinese-made goods, including baseball hats, luggage, bicycles, TVs and sneakers.
Biden didn't renew the tariffs on these things, but you seem to enjoy being wrong so much it's almost a shame to spoil your joy.

>>1295382
>>1295382
>Biden didn't renew the tariffs on these things
>Biden’s administration announced Tuesday that he will increase Trump-era duties on steel, aluminum and clean energy products from China, including quadrupling tariffs on electric vehicles, while keeping the rest in place
>"while keeping the rest in place"
Whelp, your wrong again.
Really must suck being you, your wrong in like every post you make

>>1295386
I'm sorry you don't know how to read and like staying misinformed.
>>1294974
>The tariffs are unlikely to have much of an inflationary impact because of how they’re structured. Administration officials said they think the tariffs won’t escalate tensions with China, yet they expect China will explore ways to respond to the new taxes on its products. It’s uncertain what the long-term impact on prices could be if the tariffs contribute to a wider trade dispute.

>The tariffs are to be phased in over the next three years, with those that take effect in 2024 covering EVs, solar cells, syringes, needles, steel and aluminum and more. There are currently very few EVs from China in the U.S., but officials worry low-priced models made possible by Chinese government subsidies could soon start flooding the U.S. market.

>>1294977
>Under the findings of a four-year review on trade with China, the tax rate on imported Chinese EVs will rise to 102.5% this year, up from total levels of 27.5%. The review was undertaken under Section 301 of the Trade Act of 1974, which allows the government to retaliate against trade practices deemed unfair or in violation of global standards.

>Under the 301 guidelines, the tariff rate is to double to 50% on solar cell imports this year. Tariffs on certain Chinese steel and aluminum products will climb to 25% this year. Computer chip tariffs will double to 50% by 2025.

>For lithium-ion EV batteries, tariffs will rise from 7.5% to 25% this year. But for non-EV batteries of the same type, the tariff increase will be implemented in 2026. >There are also higher tariffs on ship-to-shore cranes, critical minerals and medical products.
Nothing about baseball hats or washing machines. Sorry.

>>1295394
Bro this says nothing about Biden making any new tariffs. It literally just calls his tariffs good, a subjective conclusion.

The op article in this thread makes it very clear that Biden is keeping every tariff and increasing tariffs on car.

Your 'nuanced difference' you were talking about is exactly what I said it was: subjective and in your head

Also, good job proving the op editorial. You've quite thoroughly demonstrated you don't have any independent thoughts

>>1295394
Kek.
So it's all trumps tarrifs. He's just increasing some of the tariff rates

Lmao

>>1295396
Your damage control has failed. Try harder next time.
>>1295397
It was good when Trump did it, but bad when Biden does it, right?

>>1295398
>It was good when Trump did it, but bad when Biden does it, right
I never said that once.
But you factually did say that it's bad when Trump did it and good when Biden did it.

You are literally mocking yourself at this point

>tfw you live long enough for chubs to support poor quality chinese cars flooding the US

>>1295398
>It was good when Trump did it, but bad when Biden does it, right?
NTA but a response like this really shows your lack of understanding of this topic. You haven't explained why this statement in and of itself is ridiculous. Depending on the type of tariffs, the market conditions, the rate of the tariffs and how they're being applied it could absolutely be the case that it was bad when Trump did it and good when Biden did it. A "tariff" is not like a universal tax sticker you slap on something. Its complicated economic police. Of course it can be applied in both good and bad ways. That's like saying "Oh you're a hypocrite for supporting Biden tax reform but not Trump tax reform I thought you said tax reform is bad". That makes no sense, anon. Its your job to provide an argument for why specific tariff policies are either good or bad.

>>1295410
Absolutely great post anon

>>1295409
I actually visited China about a month ago. Hong Kong and a Southern province. Would never want to live there, most of it is reminiscent of a post-apocalyptic wasteland, there's communities with dozens of skyscrapers that they began building and then just stopped because chinks take on so much debt and then default... They were like these tiny towns with just skyscrapers and roads being overtaken by vegetation.. anyways, I digress. One of the positive things I noticed there is pretty much everyone drives an electric vehicle and for how poor Chinese people are that's kind of surprising at first, but then when you think about it all these people work in death factories for pennies manufacturing cars on machines with no safety standards and when miscalculation and you're being ground up into human meat.

Anyways, point of the story is, I wouldn't mind having an affordable electric vehicle and the American car industry is not known for making things affordable

>>1295330
Any time, fren!

>>1295419
Electric cars are not affordable, economical, nor good for the environment.

>>1295454
>t. American and knows nothing about outside of America

>>1295461
I find it hard to believe someone with your hot takes was able to solve the captcha.

>>1295231
How are Democrats lacking such basic self awareness?

Tariffs protect local industry. Democrats used to support tariffs to protect their union voters. But that was more than forty years ago, back when the US still had domestic industry. Back when people could buy a house and raise a family on a single blue collar income.

>>1295501
And they still do support them.
They just forgot all about it from 2016-2020 because they cared more about "getting dRumpf!!!"

>>1295231
>boomers wife is a gook
it's amazing how AI just knows

>Democrats are overly sensitive to propaganda says pro-republican propagandist
ogey
God forbid we examined any policy outside of its context within the Left v Right dichotemy.
MY GUY LOVES TARIFFS SO TARIFFS ARE GOOD
NO MY GUY HATES TARIFFS SO TARIFFS ARE BAD
(neither guy actually knows anything about tariffs)

>>1295231
I'm a democrat and I remember thinking back when trump did the China tariffs in was like "FUCK TRU- hey wait a second, China is our enemy, isn't this good?"

A broken clock is right.

>>1295503
Good post

>>1295503
>>1295536
Worst poster on the board

>>1295537
Do you always reply to two separate people and think they are the same person?

Yeah. You do.

>>1295508
No, it's true. They are. It's quite obvious especially with this example.

>>1295558
Everyone's overly susceptible to propaganda. You can't divide it along political lines. Remember when 60-ish percent of Republicans believed that Obama was secretly born in Africa? How about the time that /pol/ became obsessed with the idea that a pizzeria with no basement was keeping children in its basement? What about the WMDs in Iraq? Do you, now, unironically believe that South American countries are emptying their prisons and mental hospitals, and sending the people in them here to America?
Don't whataboutism with Democrat examples, I could do them for you. People are stupid and easily manipulated on average and regardless of what color of political football team they choose to root for. The fact that you think OTHER SIDE is intrinsically stupid is actually a result of dehumanization propaganda working on you.

>>1295560
Personally, I enjoy "both sides" arguments, because more often than not, horseshoe theory is very real.

Good post.

>>1295560
Lets see.
>Obama was secretly born in Africa
No one really believed that.
>WMDs in Iraq
No one cared about the Iraq war except politician jews.
>Pizzeria with no basement
How does this fit with the other examples you fucking chomo? If nothing else Pizzagate became a shit test to make chomos expose themselves.
>>1295561
This isn't a "both sides" argument though. This is defense of Democrats who always do shit like this.
Not a single example is analogous to the current topic.
Also, nice samefagging, fuckface.

>>1295572
>I'm blaming democrats for things Trump did
You already lost using this strategy once. What makes you think it will work THIS time?

>>1295573
What are you talking about, nutsack?
Adjust your google translate settings.

>>1295578
I spoke English, do you?

>>1295578
lmao >>1295574

>>1295572
>No one really believed that.
Lol. Lmao.
https://files.catbox.moe/bt8954.png
I was about 20% off, but I was trying to remember a statistic from over a decade ago.
>No one cared about the Iraq war except politician jews.
Such a gay fucking cope I don't even want to justify it with a real response. The post-9/11 wars were massively popular at first. Grow a brain, nigger.
>How does this fit with the other examples you fucking chomo? If nothing else Pizzagate became a shit test to make chomos expose themselves
What did you even mean by this? Are you still seething that you were duped by internet trolls into thinking that Democrats are running child sex rings out of fucking pizza shops? I bet you bought into QAnon too, you absolute retard. Two more weeks bro.

Here, since you actually can't concieve of someone making an argument outside of your tribalistic caveman mindset, let me give you some Democrat examples. Don't think about it too hard; I don't want you hurting yourself.
Remember when Democrats were convinced that Bush was an actual sub-80IQ retard? How about when Mitt Romney wanted to create a religious ethnostate? Did you know that not only is Trump literally Hitler, but that he also has a magical power over Republicans that compels them to commit crimes? What about the fact that all Black people are persecuted by the system, despite the fact that Black on Black crime vastly outpaces Black on White crime?
The point is that Propaganda works in general. You should've paid more attention to this line:
>The fact that you think OTHER SIDE is intrinsically stupid is actually a result of dehumanization propaganda working on you.

>>1295583
Good post

>>1295583
20% is pretty significant when there were 23% of people surveyed that said he was "possibly/probably" born in a different country.
No one cared about the Iraq war. It was another war in the ME for Israel.
>What did you even mean by this?
I mean at least Pizzagate weeded out the chomos. Only chomos are butthurt by it.
>Democrats are running child sex rings out of fucking pizza shops
They probably are.
None if this is similar to the MAINSTREAM MEDIA reporting on the horrors of tariffs.
For fucks sake even my Boomer mom read of a list of stuff to me, that she never had any intention of buying, that would cost more in a panic over it.
Democrats are retarded and 100% comply with poopooganda. There's nothing similar you've cited, once again.
>Remember when Democrats were convinced that Bush was an actual sub-80IQ retard?
Yes, he was. He proved it.
>Trump literally Hitler, but that he also has a magical power over Republicans that compels them to commit crimes?
Democrats believe this, yes.
>What about the fact that all Black people are persecuted by the system
More things Democrats believe and have convinced blacks of.
Propaganda works, but it works best on Democrats. That's the

>>1295587
>No one cared
>Only chomos
>Democrats are retarded
>Democrats believe this
>More things Democrats believe
Do you really not see this? Do you have any capacity for self-reflection? Have you ever put critical thought into any belief you have, or do you just regurgitate permutations of what other people tell you to think like a chatbot?
Everything you say is absolutist, binary, and oppositional. You've been trained to see every issue as "us vs. them," because, again, YOU HAVE BEEN PROPAGANDIZED. Anything Republicans do is okay, because Democrats do it worse. I must be a Democrat, because I disagree with you. All Democrats believe the same things and are stupid, whereas Republicans are allowed to have diverse thoughts along statistical lines - even if some are getting propandized, more Democrats are, so Republicans are better. This is what you're trying to convince me of. Can you see it, at all? Can you recognize why you think this way? Do you have actual evidence, outside of your dementia-ridden mom or shit you saw on the internet, that supports these beliefs? Think hard.
For the record, I've voted a straight Independent ticket in every election since 2012 as a protest against how fucked our political system is.

>>1295589
>For the record, I've voted a straight Independent ticket in every election since 2012 as a protest against how fucked our political system is.
Good poster anon here.
Good post.

>>1295589
>YOU HAVE BEEN PROPAGANDIZED
Doubtful, captain "compares shit from 4chan to mainstream media reporting".

>>1295593
It's an example I knew you'd be aware of that shows right wing people falling for obvious lies. I don't know why you fixated on it so hard.
Genuinely, unironically: examine why you think the things you think. Figure out where those beliefs come from. Go to places you wouldn't usually go for information, and consider it, instead of dismissing it out of hand. If you haven't been propagandized, there's no danger in this.
Start here:
https://carnegieendowment.org/research/2023/09/polarization-democracy-and-political-violence-in-the-united-states-what-the-research-says?lang=en

>>1295586
>>1295590
Actual good post poster here. This man is an imposter.


>>1295537
Good post

>>1295594
A bunch of bullshit and you still haven't countered the fact that your right wing propaganda examples are shit from 4chan vs. the media reporting bullshit.
Maybe you need to disconnect from 4chan if you're this far down the rabbit hole.

>>1295594
Good source

>>1295603
>nuh uh
Wow, cool, fuck off and die then retard. I don't give a singular shit about your need to try to get one over on me because I hurt your feelings. Consider the argument won, so you can shore up the black, withered thing you call your self respect, you humongous faggot.

>>1295608
OK so you've said shit from 4chan is the same as the media mass propagandizing people.
Then you posted a link to stuff I already know, like most people aren't insane liberfucks or bible thumping Christofascists.
The point remains that Democrats have been propagandized completely. They are an afraid and totally demoralized. Default Democrats are the worst because they hear shit in passing, don't really care and just accept it because it was on the TV.
You didn't hurt my feelings. You didn't win an argument. You're simply trying to change the subject and play damage control with the "both sides" bullshit.

>>1295609
Good job actually making points.
4chan is mass media. Qanon, to use another example, started on 4chan and was then picked up by a wider audience, and is discussed in the mainstream. It was endorsed by Right Wing mainstream media; my point being that something being on 4chan does not make it an invalid example of propaganda. Pizzagate also got news coverage - mostly negative, but it is an example of how propaganda influenced a large number of people. It's a good example to use because it can be proven to have been demonstrably false: a guy actually went to the place with an assault rifle to save the children who weren't there from the basement that didn't exist.
You show cognitive dissonance within two lines:
>most people aren't insane liberfucks
>Democrats have been propagandized completely. They are an afraid and totally demoralized. Default Democrats are the worst
These statements are in opposition to each other. You acknowledge that you can't actually paint all Democrats with the same brush, because they're individuals, and then do exactly that anyway.
I did change the subject! Good work on that ability to read, champ. You consneeded that propaganda works on both sides, which was my original argument, so I moved on. The new argument is that Democrats are MORE propagandized than Republicans. You haven't supplied any real reason that you think that, so I suggested that it's because you've been drinking Right Wing kool-aid and invited you to prove me wrong. Instead, you acted like a little bitch.
That invitation's still open. Tell me WHY Democrats are, on average, more susceptible to propaganda. Your mom is not a valid source.

>>1295612
>These statements are in opposition to each other.
No they aren't. There's a massive difference between a default Democrat and a libertard.
A default Democrat doesn't care. Heard Republicans bad on the TV. Has the weakest excuses for believing it.
>Qanon
>Pizzagate
>One guy
See that link you posted earlier, slapnuts.

>>1295612
>Tell me WHY Democrats are, on average, more susceptible to propaganda.
Because Democrats are targeted with propaganda because the media corporations know they can appeal to weak-minded demoralized people who will support everything their investors want, such as lower tariffs on Chinses goods.

>>1295613
Why, fucker? What's your reasoning for your beliefs? I'm not asking you to unravel the Gordian knot, here, just explain why you think that the "default Democrat" is just regurgitating what they see on TV, but the "default Republican" is not. Stop dicking around with trying to argue definitions, I don't care that you don't like my examples.

>>1295614
Okay, that's an arguable position. Good job, unironically.
I accept that media corporations are propaganda engines without reservations. Why is it that Democrats are more weak-minded and/or demoralized than Republicans? The source I posted earlier suggested that both Democrats and Republicans are about as disenfranched with institutions, which would suggest that you're wrong to think this.
Also: would you say that Fox News, the primary Conservative mainstream news outlet, is more or less biased than left wing sources like CNN or MSNBC?

>>1295615
There's no such thing as a default Republican.
Well, maybe in the South. But it's quite an isolated population as compared to the default Democrat who heard something in passing onTV, or on the radio and wouldn't want to be a bad person by being a Republican, which is the majority of the Democrat voter base.
Disengaged, demoralized, and uninformed is the state of the default Democrat.
And yes, your examples are shit because they're shit off of social media and mostly 4chan which you refuse to acknowledge is vastly different from organized news media which is still considered trusted and truthful, for some reason.

>>1295616
>Why is it that Democrats are more weak-minded and/or demoralized than Republicans?
>Targeted
They listened to the propaganda and believed it. I don't know how to make it more clear that they are targeting individuals who are disengaged and not paying full attention.

>>1295616
>>1295618
>>1295620
Where do you people get this shit from?

>>1295616
>Democrats and Republicans are about as disenfranched with institutions, which would suggest that you're wrong to think this.
This doesn't figure in with anything regarding propaganda.
I've said it numerous times on here: everyone hates neoliberalism which is the current standard for western politicians.
Everyone is disenfranchised and that's entirely different from being propagandized.
Why are you even arguing with me with such weak and distracting points?

>>1295618
This isn't a formal debate, you don't win marks for getting me to drop a point. That said: I don't accept that mainstream media is the only acceptable source of examples of people being propagandized. There's a wealth of research showing that social media is as, or more, important for shaping political attitudes in the modern era. Our argument is about propaganda in general, not propaganda as it specifically relates to mainstream media - that said, I did deliberately choose examples that had mainstream recognition, so I don't think you're arguing these semantics around relevancy in good faith and therefore don't really care.
Let me help you: you claim three things here;
>there is not a Default Republican (with caveats for the south)
>there is a Default Democrat, defined as someone who believes anything they see from Left Wing media
>Disengaged, demoralized, and uninformed is the state of the default Democrat

You haven't given me evidence or reasoning to show why these things are true. Start with why there is no such thing as a Default Republican, except maybe in the south.

>>1295621
Observations of reality, I would guess.
Studies do show that people of left wing political persuasion have a significantly higher chance of suffering from mental illness. The study is really googeable

>>1295623
>: I don't accept that mainstream media is the only acceptable source of examples of people being propagandized
I agree.

>>1295623
>This isn't a formal debate, you don't win marks for getting me to drop a point. That said: I don't accept that mainstream media is the only acceptable source of examples of people being propagandized.
Fine don't. The difference is obviously the reach of the propaganda. You're comparing shit from 4chan and crap from social media that affects an extremely small portion of the population versus mass propaganda.
There's simply no comparison.
>You haven't given me evidence or reasoning to show why these things are true.
The only thing you've given me is crap.
This isn't a formal debate. If you fail to see the differences you're an idiot and that's all there is to it.
>Show me a source!!!
>Show me research!!!
Research has, in the modern age, been used to propagandize as well. If I show you a study, you can show me 5 saying the exact opposite.
But here's my current favorite scientific study:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8814384/

>>1295629
Addendum:
https://www.biopharma-reporter.com/Article/2024/04/02/FDA-settles-ivermectin-lawsuit-removes-contentious-COVID-19-posts

>>1295629
All I want is for you to explain why you think the things you think. You say I haven't done the same, and that's fair, so allow me. I'll even do it in a structured format.
Propaganda is equally as effective on Republicans as it is on Democrats. We can consider a person to have been successfully propagandized if we can see that they have been made to believe something that is untrue. A meta-analysis of conspiratorial beliefs conducted in 2022 shows this; to quote, "In no instance do we observe systematic evidence of a political asymmetry [in conspiratorial beliefs]" (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9307120/). In other words, Left and Right wing people are about as likely to believe in conspiracies in a vacuum.
This aligns with the principles of propaganda, which stem from behavioral psychology. Propaganda works mainly by implanting beliefs in a person's subconscious, which is best done by repeatedly asserting something as true; if the conscious mind does not take steps to examine these assertions for truth, the subconscious accepts it as fact (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2440575/). Since this is something that is fundamental to all people, it doesn't make sense that it would apply more to people on any particular side of the political spectrum.

That's why I think what I think. Why do you think what you think?

>>1295630
I don't dispute that both media and research is prone to bias, and even that that bias generally leans to the left. I do dispute that more Democrats believe in the propaganda they see than Republicans do. Republicans might get it from less sources, but the sources they do get it from are equally biased. Fox News isn't even a news organization, legally speaking, according to themselves.

>>1295634
>Propaganda is equally as effective on Republicans as it is on Democrats.
But it's not because very few are targeting "Republicans".
In fact, I'm saying many Democrats vote Democrat because of the propaganda.
You can't seem to wrap your head around the fact that the party line isn't what makes one prone to being propagandized, but that many Democrats are Democrats specifically because they've been propagandized.
>This study from the same source as the one that publishes studies about the miracles of eating cow shit is why I believe things.
So enlightened.

>>1295640
I gave you a chance to explain yourself and you gave me "there's more liberal media than conservative media." That's your whole reason for all of these assumptions - that Democrats are higher in comformity than Republicans, that Democrats are more propagandized, that Democrats are weak-willed and demoralized, and any other sweeping generalizations I missed.
I could show you more studies that show that Republicans and Democrats actually consume very similar amounts of biased media, with Democrats spread out over several networks and Republicans focusing almost exclusively around Fox, but we don't believe in studies because Indians are subhuman and someone wrote a paper about it. You've placed yourself above all written human knowledge. Very good. I'll take this as what I pretty much always knew: you don't care about truth, you only want to validate your own feelings on the matter. You're a good little puppet and 'll leave your strings alone. Have a good one.

>>1295615
>there is not a Default Republican (with caveats for the south)
Republicans are divided between Neo-conservatives (which are Trotskyists), conservatives (classical liberals), constitutionalists and social conservatives.
The things they believe and why they believe them exist on a sliding scale according to how much trust they place in the government. Neocons and social conservatives are authoritarian, expansionist and hawkish on foreign policy. Conservatives and constitutionalists are the opposite.
Generally speaking, neocons and social conservatives dominate the GOP in politics, but they act as the rear guard for democratic policies because they are backed by the same foreign lobby groups that the democrats enjoy.
>there is a Default Democrat, defined as someone who believes anything they see from Left Wing media
Democrat voters and politicians are all collectivist authoritarians. They parrot the same talking points perpetuated by the democrat dominated media, regardless of what they tell themselves.
A great many of them pretend to be against the grain, but always end up gravitating towards moralizing media sources.
>Disengaged, demoralized, and uninformed is the state of the default Democrat
Democrats suffer from herd mentality. Social acceptance in democratic spaces is dictated by being morally correct, but democrats in general are moral relativists, so they suffer from an insane amount of insecurity as a consequence. This leads to two problems.
1) Democrats will relegate critical thinking about morality in exchange for being told what to do.
2) Democrats will accept narratives that, according to concrete moral frameworks, are contradictory and self-defeating. Like abortion.
This is where the "the left eat their own" comes from. Democrats exist on a constantly-shifting series of "acceptable" political outlooks to have, which can change so quickly and dramatically that they end up cannibalizing the least-informed members on the totem poll.

>>1295661
Meant for >>1295623

>>1295661
Great example of the mentally deficient trying to sound smart.
Keep crying and struggling while society drags you into the light.

>>1295663
I do not avoid my enemies, I walk through them.

This is a good thread

>>1295661
Interesting, so Democrats are essentially not really "human", they're basically prey animals.

>>1295671
This is a horrible misleading thread which was created as damage control for >>1294974

>>1295640
>>1295661
How did you become this indoctrinated?

>>1295692
NPC suits them better.
They are conscious about concepts like right and wrong, and they want to be 'right', but they do not understand the fundamental principles which inform these concepts. They have a pop-culture understanding of good and evil, which is why they believe every victim is always virtuous in any given situation.

>>1295692
>>1295697
Oh wow it's chuds analyzing democrat strawmen. It's like I'm watching Fox News prime time.

>>1295694
No, I read through it and this is an excellent thread.

>>1295695
You should ask yourself that if you're so devoid of a logical rebuttal.

>>1295698
You could probably learn something from Fox. It's not much, but it's a step towards not being a useless faggot leftist your whole life. Consider that your ideology teaches you that baby murder, a man ripping open another man's anus with his dick, and suicide are good things, that Satan is your master, and that you are deeply unhappy for those reasons.

>>1295661
You're still just making a series of claims without providing any kind of reasoning behind why you think they are true.
Despite your complete ineptitude at explaining yourself, I think I managed to figure it out; you have a vague idea that society is being propagandized at large, by all of media, as part of a vast conspiracy. This is how you can categorize all Democrats as being part of the same group - it's "everyone who fell for the propaganda," while your group is "everyone who didn't." This is why you were so resistant to the idea that social media can be a vector for propaganda; it doesn't fit into this neat little worldview you've been fed and now espouse to others in a desperate attempt to try to validate why life is so terrible for you. This is sad.
You can recognize distinct groups within your own acceptable one, which is actually commendably accurate, but this ability to recognize truth falls apart when it comes to Democrats. Democrats also have varied beliefs; you have your Liberals, your Moderates, your Socialists, your Libertarian Democrats, and the Progressives, of which you particularly despise. They often come into opposition on internal policies - see the recent legislation around Israel. All that other bullshit you wrote falls apart when you consider this easily-googleable fact.

>>1295712
>>1295700
Here we can see the fact that you have obviously been propagandized, which is something you choose, deliberately, to ignore. The phrasing you use here was fed to you. "Baby murder" and "a man ripping open another man's anus" are deliberately provocative ways to describe the topics that you're talking about that are popular on /pol/ and with people who picket on the streets. You could've lifted this wholesale from the Westboro Baptist Church. "Suicide [is a good thing]" and "Satan is your master" are deliberately provocative statements that TV evangelists and other far-right Christian groups like to make. Unless you're a truly sick fuck or are profoundly schizophrenic, you didn't come up with these ideas, or this phrasing of ideas, on your own. They were taught to you. They were taught to you via propaganda.
If you want an example of Leftist propaganda, try to google "examples of baby murder." It's impossible to find examples. That said, I'm sure YOU know where to find all of those useful pamphlets, editorials, and flyers that describe the process of a fetus being torn apart and vacuum'd out of a lady's vagina, don't you? You exist in those spaces. You are influenced by them. You are being propagandized. I know you won't believe me, because to you, it seems like Objective Truth. Far Leftists are exactly the same way. Neither of you groups of mouth-breathers are right - you're just scared, and looking for belonging and easy answers in the vast quagmire that is the world. That's fine, but please don't think that having faith in bullshit entitles you to think that you actually belong in a logical discussion of ideas. You have a peasant mindset and are used as a serf by the Right wing in exactly the same way Leftist peasants are used by the Left wing. You're a useful idiot and you always will be.

>>1295713
And, while I'm screaming impotently at brick walls, let me say this: there is no vast conspiracy. There really, really isn't. There's no magic bullet that you can use to kill any particular group of people to solve all of society's woes. Everyone wishes there was, and there just fucking isn't. It's not the Kikes, the Niggers, the Honkeys, the Libtards, the Conservacucks, the Tankies, the Nazis, the Skinheads, the Faggots, the Spics, or any other one group of people that has caused the world to become so shit. If it was, we would've killed them all already.
No, the problem is that human beings are, by and large, stupid, selfish people who believe dumb things for bad reasons, much like the caveman I've been trying to get to think about literally anything for once in his miserable goddamn life. The more power you give them, the more they let themselves express all the shitty behaviors that society kept them away from, which is why the Elite of any society is always decadent, exploitative, and immoral. History shows that when you kill an Elite, it's just replaced by another, often worse, Elite. It's human nature. We haven't gotten worse as a species - we've only become more aware of each other, because of technology. We've only learned how to exploit people in larger amounts. These things - abortion, gay sex, murder, pedophilia, rape, manipulation, etcetera - aren't unique to our, or any, society. They are a part of what it is to be Human.
The best you, me, and anyone can do is to try to be better than all those fucking degenerates who give in to their base instincts, who give in to fear, and easy answers, and easy solutions, and who spout gay-ass bullshit that they really, truly believe in. Think about shit! If you just accept things as truth without examining them, you have FUCKED UP.

>>1295700
This is why you keep losing elections.

>>1295713
Another independent "centrist" turns out to be yet another Democrat.
Shocking. Enjoy your baby murder, satanist faggot.

>>1295713
>Here we can see the fact that you have obviously been propagandized, which is something you choose, deliberately, to ignore. The phrasing you use here was fed to you. "Baby murder" and "a man ripping open another man's anus" are deliberately provocative ways to describe the topics
So killing babies isn't murdering them?
Propaganda is comparing a baby to a parasite, and finding ways to figure out why it isn't human.
And yes, homosexuals are ripping up each others anuses, infecting each other with HIV, living an average somewhere around 50 years.
The propaganda is "love is love".
> "Suicide [is a good thing]" and "Satan is your master" are deliberately provocative statements that TV evangelists and other far-right Christian groups like to make.
What kind of fucking drugs are you on while watching megachurches on Sunday you ridiculous whore.
>you didn't come up with these ideas, or this phrasing of ideas, on your own.
The phrases explain the ideas. They aren't the ideas. That's not propaganda. It's mantra if anything.
> Neither of you groups of mouth-breathers are right
Ah, but you are, huh? Somehow you're the enlightened centrist whose escaped propaganda. Interesting. We've come full circle.
>there is no vast conspiracy. There really, really isn't.
There most certainly is. There definitely is. And this is a leftist position. The same leftists who want to eat billionaires, don't believe that billionaires could come together and form policy, use their media companies to push it, and lobby politicians to ensure it's legislated the way they want.
You must be fucking retarded if you don't believe there isn't a vast conspiracy. Details may be off, but once again, there is.

>>1295719
Who indoctrinated you?

>>1295721
>>1295621
>>1295695
Hey, rimjob, this isn't clever or useful.

>>1295724
Good post

>>1295694
This is a great thread. There is quite a bit of thoughtful discussion from both sides with *actual* thoughts and explanations.
>It's muh damage control!!
Your life is damage control

>>1295697
Good post

>>1295736
Except conservatives want so bad to be the victim. Look at Trump he cries every day about how much of a victim he is. Look at the refrain from white men lately. That they are “the true victims of racism and sexism” it is non stop from conservatives.

The number 1 thing a conservative wants is to be viewed as the victim of something that has wronged them.

>>1295742
Maybe you people really are fascists?
If you'd like I can cite studies that show left leaning individuals are less accepting of opposing political beliefs than right leaning people.
You people really do abuse things like laws and norms as part of your imaginary "culture war" you keep on parroting about

>>1295742
Trump isn't conservative. He copy and pasted Bill Clinton's presidential platform.
To reiterate: your understanding of anything is as deep as a puddle. You believe Trump is a conservative because that's what other blue media outlets tell you.
>Look at the refrain from white men lately. That they are “the true victims of racism and sexism” it is non stop from conservatives.
Democrats believe that whites are evil because they are more successful, whereas minorities are dysgenic and prone to commit crime. This is why they are trying to destroy white culture, and American culture by extension.
Thankfully, zoomers are starting to realize this. They will be the forefront of the New Right in the coming years.

>>1295749
Good post

>>1295724
The fact that you come to this board seeking "clever and useful" posts is part of the problem. If you want to see non-clever and non-useful posts look no further than >>1295733
>>1295759

>>1295734
This is the worst thread on the entire board, with virtually 0 news value. In fact reading the OP article has already misled several people into thinking Biden is continuing 100% of Trump-era tariffs when he isn't.

>>1295718
I like how your brain completely glossed over the fact that I said you're exactly the same as the Left Wing retards who work entirely for the interests of the Democrat party, and that you fell directly into what I already said in an earlier post, which is that anyone who disagrees with you must be a Democrat. You don't even see the irony in this, do you?

>>1295719
>i-it's not p-propaganda because I believe in it
>it's mantra, okay?
Fucking brainlet.
Here is the definition of propaganda:
>information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote or publicize a particular political cause or point of view.
Now, tell me, how unbiased is the phrase "baby murder" if we are having a discussion on abortion? How unbiased is "tearing open a man's asshole?" Yes, the things you listed are ALSO propaganda. You are, quite literally, only seeing one side, which is what propaganda tries to get you to do.
For the record, I think abortion is terrible, but I can tell you why without having to fall back on cheap shock value.
>lol are u high
Are you really going to pretend that Evangelists don't absolutely love to talk about how their political opponents are enemies of God, and therefore servants of Satan? Are we this distant from reality?
>but you are, right?
Yes. I am, at the very least, more right than you are, since I actually arrived at my opinions by thinking about and researching them, rather than by sucking down the rancid jizz of the Republican Party.
Does this mean I am immune to propaganda? No. Absolutely not. I've been led to believe a lot of things that aren't true throughout my life - but this awareness that I am susceptible to propaganda helps me to want to avoid being manipulated, so I constantly check my beliefs against reality - on purpose, mind you - to try to root out anything I don't have a good reason to believe.

>>1295818
That's part of why you're so frustrating; I'd love to talk about the actual reasons you believe what you believe. I enjoy testing what I think against what other people think. I tried to get you to do it for a whole fucking day. But, you can't, can you? You literally cannot remove yourself from what you believe in any meaningful way. You cannot even ENTERTAIN THE IDEA that you COULD be wrong about something, and you see absolutely no problem with this. That's why you're a fucking retard. People who aren't fucking retarded leave a little room for the possibility that they could be wrong about shit.
>but you haven't
Yes I have, you just havem't given me any reason to consider it, because YOU HAVEN'T GIVEN ME ANY REASON AT ALL. You are so incapable of making an argument I had to GUESS at what you believe. I've had more intellectual conversations with actual, literal children.
And are there conspiracies? Yes. US Intelligence is spying on us all, the Bay of Pigs was real, snd the CIA probably killed JFK in the same way the FBI killed MLK. What there ISN'T is a central conspiracy. No one group is in charge. "Billionaire" isn't a cohesive, homogenous group - they compete with and hate each other. They aren't even united in political spheres except in regard to what makes them more money. They're a corrupt Elite exactly what like I described, and they all individually try to make themselves richer. What you describe isn't any more a conspiracy than the fact that Corporations dodge taxes. "Conspiracy" implies it's hidden.
The point of all that, anyway, is that you can't pin ALL problems on ONE group - even one as powerful as the Financial Elite. Everyone contributes to the world being crappy.

>>1295818
>>1295820
Good posts

>>1295775
>reading the OP article has already misled several people into thinking Biden is continuing 100% of Trump-era tariffs when he isn't
You do not have a single source claiming he has discontinued any trump tariff against China.
You have sources which have Cherry picked the names of a few what he has continued, but not a single source provided has stated he is discontinuing any

You are wrong. And you are dumb.

>>1295775
>the OP article has already misled several people into thinking Biden is continuing 100% of Trump-era tariffs when he isn't.
Actually, you know what?
Just go ahead and submit your head canon to politico and ask them to update their article.

Bumping. Democrats need to be aware of their own Hypocrisy.

>>1298617
demoKKKrats don’t know what accountability is. Not surprising most women vote that way.