Mangaka Kei Urana speaks out against overseas pirates:>I’ve spent the past few days researching the circumstances in different countries, including financial situations.>I understand that for many people, pirate sites are the only way they can read manga.>I also understand that prices can be higher overseas.>I’ve even seen people saying, “Don’t bring this issue up.”>But if we do not speak up now, the value of Japanese manga and creative works, built through the sacrifices and relentless efforts of those who came before us, will be wasted.>I’ve also seen people say, “Reading for free doesn’t hurt sales.”>That is not true.>“Free” lowers the value of things.>Once people grow used to getting something for free, they stop looking toward legitimate versions.>(I also understand that people who truly love a work will support it properly.)>We pour ourselves into creating so readers can enjoy our work.>Compensation matters, of course, but more than anything, I do not want to see its value diminished.>To help people who cannot afford to buy it, or who do not have access to it, enjoy these works, Ando and I have been discussing this for a long time and exploring many ideas. I cannot share details yet, but we are working on it.>Publishers are making efforts as well.>I’m sorry it is taking time.>But please stop hurling accusations like, “You are racists,” or saying misguided things like, “Piracy is free promotion for you.”>We will continue doing everything we can so everyone can enjoy manga.>And I ask one thing in return: please try to understand our perspective and our culture as well.
>>287594380>>Once people grow used to getting something for free, they stop looking toward legitimate versions.Mute argument when there's no legitimate sources
>>287594403The source is that any talk of digital manga on any non-Japanese site is met with "Who the fuck would buy digital manga".
>>287594380Japanese people don't like when filthy gaijin read manga.
>>287594380>That is not trueIt literally is.
Didn't read, bought volumes on cmoa to read ahead after reading scanlations.
>>287594380>>Once people grow used to getting something for free, they stop looking toward legitimate versions.While true, making stuff more accessible allows some people to get into it and perhaps purchase other things related to that media.>>Compensation matters, of course, but more than anything, I do not want to see its value diminished.I'm sure if I buy manga or whatever, that money is not going to the creator lol.
>>287594424>"Who the fuck would buy digital manga".Same people who buy digital only games and movies, physical media is as dead on the west as in japan
>kei uranaretard mangaka
>>287594403>MuteIt's "moot"
>>287594497Except nobody buys digital manga at all.
>>287594506Who?
>>287594380>NOOOOOOOOO YOU CAN'T PIRATE GAMES OR ANIME FILTHY GAIJIN, THE COPYRIGHT REEEEEEEEEEE THE ORIGINAL ARTIST'S INTENT>50 trillion hentai doujins of Sailor Moon at Comiket>Copyright??? whats that lol?? who cares about thatWhy are they like this
>>287594424Truth.
>>287594380Wasn't there an app that had a point system for the number of ads you watch to then use those points to purchase chapters, reckon it was by square enix. Or maybe i have it mixed up.
>>287594424>The source is that any talk of digital manga on any non-Japanese site is met with "Who the fuck would buy digital manga".people are good to argue in bad faith when they just don't want to paybunch of dishonest arguments and sophistry when they just couldn't bother supporting the things they like
>>287594380Someone reply to let her know that we want to bankrupt big companies so pirating is a moral obligation.
And pray tell, without piracy, how would the west come to know about anime and consume it again?Take into consideration that you would have no contact whatsoever with anime through the internet in the 00s.DVDs and VHS can only do so much.The problem is very simple and also applies to games: japanese boomers mixed "prioritizing domestic market" with "ignoring the international market". Had they invested into bringing their works to the west 20 years ago, they would have a complete grasp on the market instead of having to rely on licenses and foreign companies to do it for them.
>>287594497You consume games and movies the exact same way regardless of how you bought it.Digital manga and physical manga aren't consumed the same way.
>>287594582who the fuck caresyou can buy and support manga nowstop pretending that you can pirate all the shit you want now because you canyou can easily buy it off bookwalker, kobo, and amazonyou just choose not to because you're a niggerwhite people pay for the things they want and buy, but niggers like you just find excuses to stealyou fucking nigger
>>287594380Fuck this crap, start a fanbox or even gofundme and i will be happy to subscribe but sorry i’m not interested in contributing to the profits of already wealthy publishers
>>287594705The publishers are the reason why the manga even exists and you know about it dumbass
>Translated AI twitter post.What the fuck is this post anyway? Isn't Gachiakuta already published?
>>287594380>I’ve spent the past few daysStopped reading there
>>287594748it sucks that the community has changed from enthusiasts that support the things they like, to tourists that wouldn't pay for something even if they were at gun point and their manga got axed because of it
>>287594847>and their manga got axed because of itFive examples of this "My vote matters" in a foreign country?
Some things only have value if they're free, other's people will hand over real money for buth they need a trial to compare it to the free stuff
>>287594380Anime also throws a wrench into things, lot of people out there will just wait around and watch the anime for next to free
>>287594847Oh yay, I have to give money to SS, viz and yen press for their woke ai translations...
>>287594847This is all because of "gatekeeping is bad" tards. If you don't make newcomers adapt fully to your culture, even the "controversial" parts, then you will have no culture even the "good" parts.
I pirate stuff. It's pretty fun being an actual purist about it, because lots of people get caught up in arguing about it and trying to justify it in one way or another, but not me. I pirate simply because I like not paying for stuff. It's there to pirate so I do it. If it weren't available to pirate I wouldn't engage with it at all. It's not that it's okay because I'm not a lost sale, it's that it's whatever because fuck you I'm not spending money.
>>287594582>Had they invested into bringing their works to the west 20 years ago, they would have a complete grasp on the market instead of having to rely on licenses and foreign companies to do it for them.The reason they do that is that they all suck at English. I don't understand how they're still so terrible at it.
>>287594380I've seen the nickel and diming on part chapters they do to the suckers willing to pay. Then there is always the threat of subscription cancer. Having a "fuck you then I'll take it for free" option prevents them from going too far.
>>287594380Ain't this nice how poor people and rich people can pretend to convince each other over twitter about their persinal values. Let them eat cake and all that.
Elon really fucked up japan more that it already was kekBased autist
>>287595267Do we still have Death by Chocolate?
>>287594380>>Pay money to buy our stuff>>Okay, lets hear you out>>Lectures you on decency and what notThis is the thing about artists, I have no doubt they are very good at drawing, but it's clear no one has ever taught them on how to do businessEver wonder why all those aspiring manga artist have to gravitate to the oligarchy of Japanese publishers for their shot at success? This is why
>>287595127I saw a chapter split up into six parts before
>>287595363>Ever wonder why all those aspiring manga artist have to gravitate to the oligarchy of Japanese publishers for their shot at success? This is whyExpand on this more please, I'm curious what you mean.
Don't care. Will keep pirating.
I've lived below the poverty line my entire existence so far and still bought manga I enjoyed.I'm just going to say it: if you don't make your own shit available for free, you're just afraid it's not good enough to throw money at. These Japanese are stuck between bullshido and a brave new world, and if they don't want to get cucked for the XXth time, they better get with the program and fast.
>>287595411>Expand on this more please, I'm curious what you mean.the best way to do business is to give away your shit for freethat guy's a retard anon
>>287594380Well geez, Mr Urana, spare a thought for the american comic industry
>Kei UranaLiterally who? Also I just bought ~$100 worth of manga directly from Japan the other day. Though part of that is high shipping from a proxy site I had to use for some of it. I tried ordering directly from Amazon Japan and having it shipped to the US but it wouldn't let me. This is the kind of bullshit that prevents people from buying manga.
>>287594380It's a service problem, listen to the fat cunt already.
Sorry, I cannot support "localizers" that insert their fucking agenda on every page they rewrite with their own fantasies instead of just translating. Fansubs do a much better job most of the time.
>>287594380Piracy is a service problem.
>>287594380Trannylators that can't help inserting their politics into every series released in the west hurt their sales far more than pirates.
>>287594992Thank you for your honesty i appreciate you over justificationfags
>>287594380>we lost a market we didn't want in the first place
>>287594380Why would they care about foreign market when they never intend to sell them officially outside of nippon?
>>287595411I assume he means that art schools over there don't teach business stuff, and it's probably intentional so that they have to rely on publishers. I don't know if that's true, but that's what he seems to be implying.
Why the fuck would you want to pay for DIGITAL manga? Where the retarded publishers are in fact using AI to do retarded censorship?
>>287594380
>>287595925>art schoolgaaah what was that manga about manga schools, was it the jitsu wa watshi wa guy?
When you find something good you inevitably buy the merch
>>287594380Make it accessible then! I wanna buy Ippo! Ippo isn't released in the west! I want to buy GATE! The guys who tried were so shit they only managed to get two volumes out(after many years) before quitting manga! Don't even get me started on the censored and troonslator bullshit!
>>287594380i would pay for good quality digital volumes if they didn't also greyscale the color pages unless you're lucky enough to have some big dick ombnibus version availablethat's simply a deal breaker and the japs are less than slaves for putting up with it for decades
>>287595519/thread
>>287596113God damn he looks so cursed.
>>287596067Her own manga, Gachiakuta, IS available to read in English officially. My only problem is that K Manga's system fucking sucks.
>>287594380>>287596113>Once people grow used to getting something for free, they stop looking toward legitimate versions.Reminder that when a game goes free on Epic Games Store, sales for the same game on Steam go up.
>>287594424I mean I had a subscription to the online jump magazine when I still read manga often.
>>287596533People would rather pay than have to use Epic's store.
>>287595036I once had an interview with PayPay, supposedly one their more international firms with literally 50% gaijin employees, and the JP interviewer still had barely comprehensible English. It’s bizarre.
how do the the feminist hellhole of korea webslop providers make it work?
He's not wrong about something being free lowering its value, but personally I'm not willing to pay for anything unless I know my money is going to the creators I like and none of my money is going to cancerous businesses or business practices (such as censorship).As such, I don't buy official translations, I don't pay for streaming anime, but I will gladly pay for a BD or buy manga volumes directly from the Japanese publishers or donate to creators online, the main issue there is being blocked by payment processors, as we're now seeing with the F*KKU situation.If Japanese publishers would simply just sell directly to me without censorship instead of through cunty middlemen and doing retarded shit like what kmanga does where they stick giant black bars over the fucking art, there would be no issue, but they don't want to do that, so I'll continue to mostly pirate and support here and there when I can.
>>287594380>>Once people grow used to getting something for free, they stop looking toward legitimate versions.She's actually 100% right about this part, just look at how streaming utterly decimated western TV and cartoons.That said, she needs to come to terms with the fact that these poorfags were never going to pay for manga, ever.Piracy can be legitimate free promotion however, especially for lesser-known or niche series, but the majority of pirates just aren't going to pay, that's the simple reality of the situation.
>>287596696Webtoon authors are an even bigger slaves than mangakas
>>287595926i did when i couldn't find it anywhere else
>>287594424The problem with digital manga is that the systems they use for selling them are absolute fucking cancer, and when they're not, the releases either look like shit or are horribly censored, and who the fuck wants to pay for censored shit?
>>287596629How bad is Epic? I've only ever used Steam and GOG
I think people are coping when they say piracy has no negative effects on sales whatsoever, but I also think there’s a certain popularity a manga has to get to before it does. How many people would have bought the 100 Girlfriends manga before it got an anime if it had never received fanTLs, for instance? Premise sounds trashy and I likely would’ve been completely ignored. But now that it has an anime, does the piracy still help? It might, it keeps it front of mind since it still isn’t being simulpubbed. So what if it was and there were no more fanscans? Maybe even that could depend on which service it’s on, KManga can throttle interest, while Mangaplus allows for consistent conversations.I think games, which you have to download, and manga, which you can easily read on whatever browser or multiple apps, are different.
Do the common jap even pay for music?
>>287596942It was slow as shit and bugged the last time I used it, and there's really not enough on there to convince me to give it another go. Also, fuck Tim Sweeney.
>>287595519I remember doing this with the digital version of an LN before. I was able to find the first couple volumes online, but I couldn't find the final one and didnt want to wait for it to get uploaded. So I figured I'd just buy the epub or whatever from Amazon Japan and it didnt even let me do that. Sometimes its hard to tell if they want my money or not.
>>287594380>>To help people who cannot afford to buy it, or who do not have access to it, enjoy these works, Ando and I have been discussing this for a long time and exploring many ideas. I cannot share details yet, but we are working on it.what a silly excuse, might as well make my own in digital form, or use AI
>>287597009Honestly, I can think of quite a few manga that would never have been relevant outside of Japan if not for fan TLs.Would Nagatoro have been relevant in the west if not for many of the fan TLs that were originally done right here on /a/?That's a manga that occasionally showed up on the monthly bestsellers list in America, would it have had that following if not for fan TLs?It's hard to say, sometimes an anime is enough to make something popular even outside of Japan, but even that's not a guarantee.>>287596942Epic makes GoG Galaxy look like Steam.It was genuinely pretty shit the last time I used it.
>>287597022Yes...? Do you realise how big Kpop is over there?
>>287594548This is exactly why manga is SOVL. The creators are as close to fans as can be and you fucktards still have it in you to antagonize them on this.
>>287597022>he doesn't knowyes.. yes they do, more than most people
>>287594574A bunch of Japanese manga hosting platforms have these promotion systems to get free points, usually making an account on some other sites or sharing what you're reading on twitter and shit.
>>287594548I don't think her post has anything to do with copyright or intent, more just "people need money to eat, and if they can't make a living making manga they just won't make manga."Personally, I'm fine with this, I kind of hope this makes a lot of Japanese authors realize that the vast majority of westerners engaging with their manga and anime are not actually paying customers, and thus should not be taken into account when it comes to the content in their media.If they did more of that I would legitimately buy more anime and manga, even if the shipping fees are fucking astronomical.
>>287594582Nobody cares about the West, retard. The West does not buy the Japanese volumes, the only metric that saves a work.
>>287594380>FIRUSHI BAKA GAIJIN ARU TOO RAUDO ABOUTO READINGO MANGA
>>287594380everything boils down to >licensing companies suck and will basically scam you for mangathis is the core issue on why piracy is so prevalentthere's basically no decent way to get manga in the west
>>287597242fuckin stalker, wonder where that crazy fag is now...
>>287597242>>makes GOG look like SteamJesus, that's impressive
Is this a recent thing she said? I guess she finally snapped after her brown fanbase kept @ing her saying they read her manga on discord and how all the characters she wrote are actually trans.
how bad is piracy within japan even? these cocksuckers have no right in saying how the international market affects them when a majority of their revenue comes locally.
Good luck. Though I don't understand why small group of people think they can defeat piracy.
Spics being exceptionally proud of pirating and debating Nips on Twitter while using smug Dragonball images is going to cause the further collapse of piracy sites.
>>287597022They pay for music, but they don't pay for porn.This is simply a "I'm mad gaijin are consuming what I pay for for free" thing because they're more strict about pirating anime and manga in Japan than they are outside it, though they don't seem to consider anime is airing on TV while most anime will never broadcast outside of Japan. Most of them also buy manga volumes for like ¥100 a volume because they're in abundance, meanwhile the average price outside of Japan is like $8 for one volume. Nips are hypocrites. There's a reason why stores like Book Off, Super Potato, and Mandarake are so big in Japan. None of that money goes back to the artists, but we're supposed to "think of the creators" and the value of their work. The reality is they just resent filthy gaijins aren't paying for the things they are to consume them but still want to reap the benefits of that model where the foreign market share now outpaces their domestic market.
>>287597565They all need to follow in Brazil's footsteps and implement age verification so the rest of the internet can be spared being forced to interact with them and all their autistic spammers.That entire region has produced nothing of value.
>>287594380This doesn't make sense because most of manga in Japan is free, if you know Japanese you don't have to pay shit.This put piracy as convenience issue rather than a moral issue.So it all boil down to the fact a piracy site have everything in one place while official source require visiting multiple sites and bookmarking your favorite series because their layout and newsletter are dogshit.
>>287597466>how bad is piracy within japan even?I wish I still have the pic, it's a picture of Tomokazu Sugita with his pc in the background, then people noticed there's a downloaded idolmaster doujin from english site in his browser.There's also that case from around 7(?) years ago where a doujin artist got caught pirating a doujin during his livestream drawing session. He made public apology and said that the profit of his next doujin will be 100% donated.
Everyone's getting angry at japs being autistic again but latinx people are very much the root of the problem. Learn to shut the fuck up. Seriously.
>>287597633Oh trust me they pay for porn. I'm pretty sure a lot of them do download it, and maybe the paying ones are a minority - but god damn that's quite a sizeable minority if it is.
>>287597264>>287597331>>287597633Did a quick ChatGPT. Japan: listener breakdown (approx.) Casual / low-spending users~70–85% of listenersMostly:Free platforms (like YouTube)TV, radioNo regular paid subscription Core fans (moderate spenders)~10–20%Buy:Some CDsOccasional concert tickets Superfans (high spenders)~3–8%Spend heavily on:Multiple CD copiesEvents, merch, fan experiencesDrive a disproportionate share of revenue In extreme cases (e.g., idol fandoms like AKB48), a tiny % can generate a huge chunk of sales. / : listener breakdown (approx.) Casual (free users)~30–50%Use:Free tiers of SpotifyYouTube Paying mainstream users~40–60%Pay for:Streaming (Spotify, Apple Music)This is the largest revenue base Superfans~5–10%Spend more on:ConcertsVinyl / merchBut they don’t dominate revenue as extremely as in Japan South Korea (for contrast)Casual~40–60%Paying users~30–50% (streaming via Melon)Superfans~5–10% The key structural differenceJapan:~80% casual low spend~5% superfans very high spend Revenue is top-heavyUS/Europe:~50% paying users~5–10% superfans Revenue is broad-based Why this mattersIn Japan:Artists often focus on deep fan engagementFewer listeners needed to make moneyIn the West:Artists aim for mass reachNeed millions of listeners on platforms like Spotify Bottom lineJapan: ~75–85% casual, very small but powerful superfan baseWest: more balanced, with a much larger middle of paying usersReminds me of vtubers.
>>287597672I think deep down, everyone pirates, the issue is that third worlders don't know how to shut the fuck up about it.Then these same people will be crying when they're all forced to provide ID and give up their government data for every little thing in their country because their country is trying to crack down on piracy.
blah blah blahWhere's my english copies of Vermeil in Gold?Or Dealing with the Mikadono Sisters is a Breeze?Or Agravity BoysThe market and buyers are there but you want to chase the normalfags
>>287597633>most anime will never broadcast outside of JapanIs this true? I thought by now mostly everything would be on Prime or Netflix.
>>287597633>they don't pay for porn.that's not the case with all the artists putting up paywalled r-18 content and doujins that dont even get uploaded to booru these days
>>287597710These are the same kinds of "people" who send nhentai links to the doujin artist
>>287594380manga probably wouldn't even have value in America if not for the early scanlators
>>287594380Basically Nips think the damage that piracy does to the value of their product isn't worth the free publicity. It's honestly a fair argument since both physical and digital goods rely on scarcity to be monetized. Also explains why most mangaka would rather foreigners not read their manga at all if they can't afford it or it isn't available in their language.
Just pirate shit and shut the fuck up.That's it.
>>287597772>Did a quick ChatGPT
>>287598073zoomers are so cooked.
>>287597875Some people pay for porn, yes. Most Japanese people do not, which was the point. They will virtue signal because they don't pirate shit, but most of them aren't paying for porn either.
>>287597889I think at this point we may need a China-style firewall around all of South America and Southeast Asia, more for their own good than anything else.
>>287598146most people arent otaku either whats you point? if japanese people dont actually pay for it we wouldnt have whole sites with porn games, conventions or chain stores dedicated for them either
>>287597553>>287597565>>287597801Manga piracy is dying so all this piracy posturing is going to look funny by the end of the decade. If you still didn't notice things going downhill after MD and batoto then you're a fucking retard. None of these larpers download and seed shit so japan is going to have a giggle watching them run out of sources and crying about losing favorties. Eventual takedowns and lack of preservation are going to kill it - none of the readers preserve manga, it's the greedy aggergator site operators doing it and it's in their interest that you don't read offline.
>>287598257This is also a side-effect of certain groups not knowing how to shut the fuck up.We will soon enter a dark age of all piracy because people spent so long constantly talking about all the shit they pirate on social media like fucking morons.
>>287594380Imagine if manga wasn't pirated, thousands of mangaka and manga names would go unknown with the only way to get any would be go through the normalfag channels with a carefully selected calculated set of what's might sell more from charts in the west limiting what the West can actually consume or see.
Who the fuck actually wants a bunch of books cluttering their house except maybe for your top favorite series. What a fucking waste of paper. You're only reading that shit once and you know it.
>>287594380why do you make these threads?
>>287598312The new generation doesn't know how to shut the fuck up about piracy and to keep it on 4chan only. In the old days everyone just keeps their mouths shut and go to 4chan to get pirated shit so that all the normalfags buy it to fund their hobby. Nowadays, the zoomies can't shut up and keep talking about sources on social media. Thanks to dmca bots being widely used, companies can kill sites way faster than they did historically and zoomies get all the sources killed. The same problem in vidya. Why the fuck do I know all the names and discord details of all the fucking people who leak roms? Why do they share that shit on sites like twitter? Fact of the matter, companies don't go after sites unless the normalfags start using them and their income starts to drop.
>>287594380Gachiakuta isn't even worth free.
>>287598312>This is also a side-effect of certain groups not knowing how to shut the fuck up.Why don't you join a private tracker then?
Piracy won't exist in a couple of years, regardless of whether it's good or not. The capitalist class will use AI to build a global digital panopticon, it will scrape forums and chat rooms and image boards and detect any file sharing and shut it down. Websites like mega will be forced to comply.
>>287597801Part of the thing that really kills piracy is forced ID verification. Over like 2000-3000 artbooks and shit were uploaded to panda were all sourced from one chink social media account that stopped posting them when they were found out. Now that people can't even say anything without attaching passport etc to their accounts few people dare to upload
>>287594380I don't care. I won't buy because the over seas prices are absolutely horrendous, but on top of that, I will NOT have something taking up room for no reason. If I couldn't pirate it, you know what I would do? I would go to Walmart or any bookstore, skim the pages and put it back. There is no difference. Manga is the junk food of reading material.
>>287598465Because of the high requirements, private trackers don't have the most dedicated uploaders, only a subset of people who mostly only reupload or remux shit. They aren't the source. They only reupload the source.
>"You need to pay for your manga">"No, you can't buy that manga it has incest/school uniforms/hypnosis/etc!"
>>287598434>>287598312There are private communities like the warez scene that don't get mentioned on social media at all that got infiltrated by the feds many times in the past. You're not special for knowing pirate sites, law enforcement can find them just fine without searching on tiktok.
>>287598514Requirements are what's needed to gatekeep idiots.
>>287594455>making things free will make people consider buying themno. I will continue to pirate everything for as long as I feel like it. I would never buy manga as i see it as a "style over substance" medium. it'd be like paying for individual newspaper strips. plus most manga stories are terrible because they're written week to week or have a clear goal but no regard for how it gets there. at least western comics are scripted ahead of actually being drawn.
There would be absolutely zero market for paid manga outside of Japan if piracy hadn't paved the way for people to want proper copies. Just a fact.
i pirate mango all the time and just spent $200 on mangos literally this morning
>>287598556We're not talking about law enforcement you retard.
>>287598711Whoever wants to send DMCA notices can still easily find shit. 4chan is not the sole intended audience of aggregator sites.
>>287594380>"We think there is a fundamental misconception about piracy. Piracy is almost always a service problem and not a pricing problem," he said. "If a pirate offers a product anywhere in the world, 24 x 7, purchasable from the convenience of your personal computer, and the legal provider says the product is region-locked, will come to your country 3 months after the US release, and can only be purchased at a brick and mortar store, then the pirate's service is more valuable."
>>287598790this quote gets thrown out of the window when you realize people are still bitching about drm, ousting them for being too poor to afford anything
>>287598637Yet the same people who say that also bitch about Japan being too westernized and catering to Western audiences now. Can't really have it both ways
>>287598848>bitching about drmrightfully sopirates can run the same software without drm and have better performance.It's another example of prates getting better service
>>287594380You can read One Piece on MangaPLUS for free legally and that hasn't lowered it's value.
>>287598772>They'll find it no matter what, so don't even bother trying to make it harder for themI cannot wait for people like you to be subjected to age verification, at least it means this site will likely be banned in whatever shithole you're from so I don't need to see your retarded posts.
>>287598848Steamworks barely count as DRM, you can bypass with a single DLL and txt config. Any other DRM is anti consumer garbage.
Thank you Nier Reincarnation for shedding a spotlight on piracy... wait how did we get to anime/manga piracy? Oh, right, because Japs think reviving a dead gacha game through private servers is piracy
>>287598904Complain to the operators of these websites about not being secretive enough to your liking. Guess what, they don't give a shit.
>>287598937>Steamworks barely count as DRM, you can bypass with a single DLL and txt configSomeone had to code that emulator.
>>287598969Again, I can't wait.I would say enjoy it while it lasts, but I'd rather you not, I'd rather your remaining years of relative digital freedom be a miserable experience, because you definitely deserve it.
>nooo you can't pirate our mangaBut you don't sell it to me>just wait for itNo>whyFan translations exist>but it's still piracy, so you should just waitNo. By pirating it, westerners show you there's interest. If not, you'd never ever give it a thought>you have no moralesAd nauseum
>>287594635>you can buy and support manga nowOnly scraps. You have no idea how much is never translated
This bitch has no idea what the fuck she's talking about when it comes to value. A work that isn't distributed in a certain region has zero fucking value there, and piracy is pretty much the only way it can be made to have any. Because with a product like a story that has no inherent physical component, there is no scarcity. It's not consumed and lost, you just fucking look at it. The only value it can ever have is what people are willing to give you for it. You can try to force their hand, or you can just tell a good story that people want to pay you for. Because that is in fact how it works. If people find value in your work, they will be compelled of their own will to make sure you keep producing work. Bitching about money you're not making just means you don't actually believe in the value of your own work
>>287599032>niche mango finally picks whatever company attention and get licensed>TLs dropped to respect this>Fast forward a bit>Translations are behind 6 months to years because faggots want keep physical aroundFUCK OFF.
>>287599100>A work that isn't distributed in a certain region has zero fucking value thereTrue, but this also means that the region itself has zero value, which I think definitely applies in this instance.
>>287599100All digital goods have artificial scarcity which make consumers willing to pay for them. No one is going to buy a digital manga if mangadex already has all the pages at the same quality.
>>287599191>No one is going to buy a digital manga if mangadex already has all the pages at the same quality.I fucking wish digital releases have garbage ass resolutions.
>>287598338So nothing changes, cool
>>287599257Mangadex releases are all derived from the digital releases and often enough have reduced resolution because the translators didn't even buy the digital version themselves.
>>287598853Non-sequitur. In fact, it's totally consistent for a pirate who doesn't support official localizations to not want anime and manga to cater to the West.
>>287599116As if illegal translations weren't months to years behind.
>>287599100>A work that isn't distributed in a certain region has zero fucking value there, and piracy is pretty much the only way it can be made to have any.You can only say this because you don't buy anything, the faggot that you are. It's more valuable than anywhere else for the people that actually wants to buy it and have to import it.
>>287599381want to*
>>287594847>>287594960The pirate are the tourists now? This is some insane gaslighting.
Tbh i dont expect brown pirates in this site to pay for manga either
>>287599100>A work that isn't distributed in a certain region has zero fucking value there,Manga is typically available digitally in Europe and North America and most other places in question. Just because you can't read it doesn't mean it isn't available.
>>287594582God imagine if the west had no influence in anime/manga, we would be back to a golden age
>>28759833880% of manga doesn't get translated at all and that's counting niche French or Italian releases that aren't pirated at all. The titles that actually sell in English are typically the most mainstream garbage imaginable.
>>287599452Anime and manga are two pair of shoes. Foreign influence on anime is pretty big because it's a major source of revenue while foreign influence on manga is almost non-existent since it's too little, too late.
>>287599379Do you hear your own argument sometimes?
>>287594380Most manga is worthless slop, even worse than anime. It should start off as free. Deal with it, mangacucks.
>>287599514Do you?
We don't live in a world where all manga can be sold freely. There are ideological constraints which will not allow many manga to be sold to English speakers. Japan itself is being changed by this force and many manga will become illegal even in Japan.
>>287594847>>287594960You people are fucking retarded.>>287599452We'd have so much more Isekai, it would be fantastic.Honestly, anime would just have completely shifted to idolshit, isekai, and gacha commercials by now. Japanese Otaku have shifted from anime a long time ago as their primary whaling focus and now it's gachas and VTubers. If you want a "return to the Golden age" where they were taking inspiration from western scifi works for shit from Gundam to Eva, that ship sailed a long ass time ago. It's not really hard to see where their market trends have been going within Otaku spaces. We probably couldn't even get shit like Madoka and K-On anymore with how their market is now. Like it or not, the foreign market is why a lot of originals even exist these days for better or worse.
>>287599524You can actually read it without paying on the official sites.
>>287597466Nyaa is pretty popular in japan, the sote is filled with raw torrents and seeds for them. It's even more obvious with sukebi cause of the amount of untranslated porn.
>>287599579Kek you're righthttps://nyaa.si/view/2100239
>>287594380>built through the sacrifices and relentless efforts of those who came before us>our perspective and our culture as well
The retards here are defending piracy like everyone is still torrenting or on irc when what is actually happening is normies are watching manga on fucking tiktok reels and ruining discourse everywhere.
>>287599553This. I don't want Manga to become something world wide, because it means that Japan will not only cater to shit taste to try to make bank, but will no longer make the crude and obscene. Either for ideological reasons, or because laws will be passed that make them unable. Imagine a world where Dragon Ball is burned because of Bulma tits. I certainly don't.
>>287599617Do you think the Japanese care about that distinction?
>>287594380Jesus Christ.Piracy cannot be eradicated. Instead of combating pirates and whining on social media, Japanese publishers should strive to provide access to their work. Simulpub, translation oversight. Look a MangaPlus, it practically removed the need for Jump scanlations.And no region locking. Like at all. When you region lock an official digital English publication to the USofA, English speakers around the world have to resort to piracy. Original Japanese publications should also be easily accessible to those who know the language and not hide behind the necessity for a Japanese phone number.And English translation is not enough. For example, Spanish and Russian-speaking countries have sizeable manga community with a sprawl of scanlation sites. You can't thwart them, only replace with quality service.
>>287598848DRM on games has historically been an issue in vidya even if you bought the game, e.g Spore or ManhuntSome old DRM games are basically bricked if you don't mod them to this day (even on Steam)New age DRM like Denuvo hinder modding and shit up the performance of the gamePirated copies usually try to fix this.
>>287599634You people are retarded, you don't think they already cater to shit taste to make bank? Is this some "Shit taste, shit taste Japan!" maymay?
>>287594380I think this is countered by the fact that piracy has been a cornerstone of western manga consumption for literal decades and is currently flourishing like never before. We're only really having this conversation because of how popular manga has become in the west. Personally, I try and buy physical copies of series I like. But ever since mangadex has started going downhill, I've started far less new series and consequently bought far less physical media. Definitely doesn't help that western publishers tend to avoid picking up series that aren't already popular by some unknown magical means. Not saying it has no negative effects, or that mangaka aren't entitled to their own feelings on it. But I just feel like we've already had a good thing going for a while.
>>287598959Wasn't it done by clean room reverse engineering too? Some of the biggest software projects like GNU were basically done in the same way. May as well complain that Linux is piracy because of its compatibility with Unix
>>287599644I do not care what the japanese think. I am making that distinction because it is ruining discussions for me as I am the one who has to deal with it. Discussing anything Jump is impossible now because is powerscaling the serialization itself.
>>287599687Stop talking to normalfags then, retard.
>>287599648There's enough Japanese sites that work fine with standard payment options and without phone number.MangaPlus only works because it's Jump. Most other translation services are completely unknown and ignored.
>>287599682This is countered by the fact that manga is still bigger in France even before online piracy came into play.
>>287599701Yeah, I should probably stop going to /a/. Almost every discussion here is unbearable unless it's something with no official release.
>>287599617Even the pirates here mainly rely on streaming sites like Mangadex.
>>287599380Depends on the translator. Dedicated TL group like Hokuto no Gun basically speedran Baki after it spent decades being "translated" by a revolving door of retards who didn't know Japanese.
>>287597200Amazon Japan absolutely lets you purchase digital from abroad.
>>287599648If there was a Steam out there that let me buy manga for like 30$ that came with support for slotting in fan translations for dialogue (like subtitles) I would buy it easily. Same with anime.
>>287594380something something Neil Gaiman said stuff.i agree that the paying japaneses and USA market are the only real viable market. but "free" is basically free advertising. BUT only if the product was good enough to make people wanna collect it.
>>287599789So as long as the English market is overshadowed by French it isn't viable?
>>287597351japan gov tax payer should pay for their food japan gov know full well anime is major japan soft power ergo gov / tax should pay them
>>287597242>GoG Galaxy look like Steam.>>>/v/tard pls.real GOGbears download manually and install on customised Mint rigs.and yes. pirating is free advertisements in developing markets, which don't have relevent money to buy manga with overpriced bad translations or direct shipping from nippons.
>>287594380Someone has to tell him japanese publisher all let you read chapters for free too.
>>287599789>BUT only if the product was good enough to make people wanna collect it.On the other side, people who pirate and don't buy are not going to buy anyway. It's not a "lost sale" if no attempt was made to sell it and the idea that it was a lost sale if anyone pirates it otherwise is debatable.
>>287599864>him
>>287599834Pirating is generally just free advertisement as long as the original work is alright enough. WataMote only got popular in the west because it was translated here on 4chan, and the author liked that it was done and even visited here. Still haven't forgotten about it either because she drew this thing not long ago (look at the present's ribbons)
>>287594380>>Once people grow used to getting something for free, they stop looking toward legitimate versions.That's a sophism.People love to pay for things they enjoy; we are designed to give and receive.
>>287594960>>287594847pretty sure the tourists are too fucktarded to even use Ublock Origin when visiting a piratey mango warehouse. and they sure as hell don't know how to torrent.
>>287599909>the author liked that it was done and even visited here.we should have sent them more penis mushrooms so they will stop turning Watemote into Yuri Yurus.
>>287599804French suck and is currenly filled with africans beggars who will never buy or read mangos.IIRC muh sales stats still show that USA buys more stuff than the whole of europoors.
>>287599909Strange how often this happens. Something like Nick & Lever could get popular on here but not in japan and the author was all cordial with people just translating his shit but his publisher couldn't be arsed to do anything about making a fun realistically styled gag manga available for an audience who'd actually read it.
>>287595267Rich people pirate a lot of stuff. Most of the people that are permanently online pirate things.
>>287599804Problem is that france will reach market saturation far soon then the US which has a lot of room to grow in terms of manga sales and business men love upward trend lines. I do think it's silly to ignore everyone outside the US though because China and other countries would probably buys tons of it too.
>>287599974The French have had translations for things that the US hasn't bothered officially localizing for decades, like Shigurui or Zipang. They're also the reason a lot of things even get translated into other languages in Europe (just look at the anime that are just dubbing over french dubs)
>>287599910No there's merit to the argument because if you read something and then a official version comes out what reason do you have to buy the official version unless you really like the manga? That means tons of manga that have been illegally read won't get any sales because people didn't like it well enough to buy it.
>>287594380>muh manga will go exctinct because of piratesIt literally became a global phenomenon because of pirates since the birth of the internet. One should check how much the salaries of managers and CEOs have increased since then, and how much those of the average mangaka, and I think the mystery will be solved quickly. Manga makes more money than ever, if author's aren't getting it it's not because of the fans.
I don't believe in paying for digital manga/books/LN.If there is a manga I like, I buy one volume that costs 8 - 14$, if available of course.
>>287600071You know mangaka get a percentage of every sale of the manga so this isn't a case where a manga sells really well and the actual creator doesn't benefit financially.
>>287594992I wonder what the data is on what percentage of people who pirate would've bought the product if it was accessible to them.
>>287600052If a manga can't get off the ground without piracy then people will have to fall back on reviews or word of mouth and if the manga is bad then nobody will actually read it in the first place. It falls back to the same issue as always: Piracy isn't a "lost sale" without really good evidence that it is, instead piracy showcases sale potential.>>287600128Regardless of what you think, a manga like WataMote would have sold basically nothing if not for pirates on here making it popular in the first place and the author encouraging it.
>>287600052That same argument can be applied to any free trial: "We offered a free two-chapter promotion, but as a result, our sales decreased." Essentially, you lose by not forcing people to pay even to find out whether they would actually like the product in the first place.
>>287594506Literally who?
Kyoani bros...we're the bad guys
>>287600141And also, historically resourceful and effective measures against piracy are services like Steam or Spotify.>>287600157Yeah, that sounds like bad works being burnt by not being able to pull in an audience instead of essentially tricking them to buy it so it can get a foot in the door.
>>287600141Here's the problem something might get great reviews so your purchase it but found out you don't like it that much. In a pirates case they never make that purchase because you don't need to buy in.
>>287600182This is why video game demos have always been a good thing.
>>287600157There's a difference between a free two chapter trial and reading the whole work and deciding you don't want to spend money on because it's not good enough to meet your criteria.
>>287600197It really doesn't matter too much. Piracy is too hard to prevent without draconican tyrannical measures and implementing a good service has been historically technically feasible and extremely successful (and as far as I've heard, digital manga sales are generally pretty alright). If publishers in Japan are worried about "competing services" and create a "Netflix effect" where the services fragment the market and result in bad service they could just make a consortium to make The One Manga Service to Rule Them All and have practically all publishers on there like Steam, add some demos/free chapter trial and it'll probably sell well. Maybe offer subscription too.
>>287600020>I do think it's silly to ignore everyone outside the US though because China and other countries would probably buys tons of it too.Chinese manga market is even less developed than the English one. German and Italian are more relevant.
>>287600197Nobody reads past two chapters if they didn't actually like the work. If you read all ten volumes and still say it's shit and you wouldn't pay for it, then you're just miserly.
>>287600221You literally have dozens of ebook stores that more or less include the same library.Subscriptions like Bookwalker, Book Houdai, Bookpass or cmoa already exist.
>>287600221Getting all the elevens to publish on an anime/manga steam where users can upload subs/alternative scanlation like mods on the community workshop would be so freaking nice.....you'd need like the emperor to float the idea though probably and lolis and incest would be banned probably since the world is shit.
>>287600092Which manga costs more than $14? Even shipping should be covered by that.
>>287600246There are plenty of people on this very board who say they hate the manga but are currently caught up on the latest chapter. People are less likely to part with their money if they have a option not too.
>>287600264Look at DLsite. They already have a service where fans can upload translations and the sales are absolutely pathetic. Whether you can see loli and incest my depend on your location, Japanese IPs can still see it.
>>287594380Xhe needs to relax. Xer shitty manga not even worth pirating.
>>287600275probably hard cover volumes
>>287600264Alternative scanlation sounds unfeasible but having the equivalent of "manga subtitles" for fantranslations sounds doable.
>>287600310Don't those normally include multiple volumes?
>>287599819>japan gov know full well anime is major japan soft power>ergo gov / tax should pay themTrue, but I don't think the taxpayers understand that.
>>287600221It's not about stamping out piracy entirely rather just creating an understanding that if your going to pirate the work stop trying to justify it as a good thing.
>>287600320no, not every hard cover is an omnibuse.g. JoJo's Bizarre Adventure: Part 1 hard cover volumes
>>287600314Idk, you could have a built in editor so you can type text and redraw in the "steam" window to edit a series and then your edit would be listed as an alternative to the official, or maybe there are no officials and they just upload raws and all translation is community driven. All the files remaining on their servers. But if we can download from this website anyway reuploading after local editing should be fine, you'd just have it verified by an employee or rely on reports to take down super low quality or malicious uploads.It's nice to dream.
i read a lot of shit on free site but i also buy the manga from bookwalker if i like it so muchsurely you also do this right?
>>287600252I never really thought about the book side were they all flocked to one site but manga publishers all wanted to make their own site. At this point I doubt these publishers will compromise and move to 1 site versus just staying on their own.
>>287599760Not anymore, I tried to source manga raws from it half a year ago and had to jump through a few hoops to get them from Bookwalker in the end.
>>287594380>looking toward legitimate versionsThat requires legitimate versions to be released. Considering the options are all shit or non-existent that makes it their problem, not mine. Piracy is a service issue.
>>287600382Are you living in your own fantasy world? The ebook stores all have manga, many even as their main source of revenue.Bookwalker happens to belong to Kadokawa but they have manga from the other publishers as well.
>>287599702There has been one I've found that new chapters are only on a site that requires a local phone number for an account in addition to a vpn, even the current free chapters, where the manga isn't available elsewhere. Waiting for volumes is the solution for those manga though.
>>287600338That's gonna be hard when multiple manga (like again, WataMote) only have popularity due to fantranslations and the resulting word of mouth from that. It's more of a nuanced problem than people want to pretend it is. A lot of western gamedevs also don't have much issue with piracy because it's just an avenue to advertise the game (e.g. Ultrakill among others)
>>287600384I bought a magazine from them literally last week.
>>287600338That's what pisses me off. This idea that words alone can do anything. That lecturing and harassing people actually works, instead of going after the root cause. An otaku in a Brazilian favela isn't gonna just quit reading manga until he gets out of poverty (never) and can buy them at full price...
>>287600412Ah you're right I should look it nonphysical manga official sites more...
>>287600359This would also rely on VERY rare talent and personalities. You need an at least quasi-benevolent capitalist with a modicum of passion for the industry to even start.
>>287599648>Piracy cannot be eradicated.It can be eradicated. Why do you think they are pushing for id verification laws everywhere? There's also id verification for servers, vps etc
>>287600439Yeah it's just a whole lot of complaining for nothing, no matter what the opinion on the matter is.
>>287594380>OP is a faggot drama queen collector.>ignores shueisha and kodansha have sites to read free manga that is released.What was your point exactly?.
>>287600490>Why do you think they are pushing for id verification laws everywhere?Data harvesting. Piracy is too much of a nothingburger to matter
I buy what i can, but you can't do shit when certain series simply either haven't been translated or haven't been preserved for future generations. Manga by its very nature can never escape the piracy angle. Same reason mp3s will never go away so long as CDs go out of print and itunes/spotify don't have everything.
>>287600510Most publishers have those sites but they have limitations on how far you can read and the ad revenue actually reaches the producers. Pretending they are identical to pirate sites is rather disgusting.
It has nothing to do with the ethics of piracy and everything to do with japanese people being chudcels and not wanting wyto pigu to read their shit. The rational response to this is try and stop my fagt
>>287600439Right but as I said they can continue reading the manga as nobody can stop them but themselves, but when they come out and say "piracy is why you are popular and praise piracy" it's going to piss off the Japanese and the authors. It's intentionally or not saying your works are only liked here because they are free.
>>287594446Is this a cum jar?
>>287600504You could reduce most ideological arguments to this because most people are staunch in there beliefs and admitting they are wrong is losing and losing is bad.
>>287594380These sites that host manga for free are often the only ways I'm able to read them and freely choose what I want to read. Because in a lot of cases, "this content is not available in your location" (Checked on Frieren on VIZ), or the manga on the site don't interest me. And buying an imported physical paperback is double of a locally translated manga volume.I've been reading picrel for few years now, started when Volume 1 was translated to my native language. I've heard this got bilingual releases (Japanese-English) too but haven't found any of them. Currently, the local translation stopped at Volume 10 due to licensing issues, and the fan translations stopped at Volume 11. The manga is in Volume 13 and I haven't found any new chapters online besides the Volume 13 chapters on Comic-walker. I was lucky enough to visit Japan last year and get to buy the missing volumes (I can read/understand Japanese so there's that). Volume 14 is coming this Summer, so I gotta think how to get a hold on that one.My point is that there exists manga that's being translated as we speak, which would otherwise be out of reach for the general manga audience. But then there are obscure manga that wouldn't surface without the effort of fan translators and free manga-hosting sites. I believe Japanese are focusing more on the piracy related to big series like aforementioned Frieren, because it's one of the popular ones to gather (overseas) readers that would potentially be an income for the Japanese publishing company. That's probably the reason Mangadex purged only specific big name titles
>>287600601Its funny that that's their key takeaway, as opposed to the potential revenue they could make.
>>287594380Release shit in English quicker and I'll happily support mangaIs there any reason there's 18 months between the Japanese release of Berserk Volume 43 and the English release?
>>287600744I mean they have lots of opinions on why it's bad so they are also worried piracy will hurt their revenue when they do eventually release the manga to those regions.
>>287594510I did
>>287600439On that same note, if the author calls said Brazilian a thieving nigger, the Brazilian can't do shit about that either.
>>287594380>“Free” lowers the value of thingsThis keyboard warrior mangaka is a total retard. What killed piracy is literally mangaplus making the serialization free and simultaneous like jump+ and other Japanese apps. Volume sales are a different matter and quite a few less popular manga volumes aren't even available on torrent let alone pirated scans despite having extras with only magazine version available and its a great impetus for purchase. She should focus on putting more extra features in volume than risk the rise of free app babies bankrupting her since its becoming more commonplace even in Japan. And how come these brave mangakas only have beef with english and western fandom piracy and never poke the chink and gook bears who are the real leakers??? If she feels so much about publisher politics maybe she should become a editor and get promoted to management or get a law degree for advocacy rather than ragebait weekly on social media. It's very clear now she is trying to make viral headlines daily for attention.
I'm not gonna pay for it. Make it easily accessible? Not gonna pay for it.Make it cheap? Not gonna pay for it. You can get my money through merchandise which I do buy. You should be thankful that I read/watched/played your product (for free), because otherwise I wouldn't have spent a penny on merch either.
>>287600601>It's intentionally or not saying your works are only liked here because they are freeBruh this is an entirely new sentence.
>>287594380manga has no value, so you can't "lower" it
>>287594380Why are people expecting a mangaka to support piracy? Its like asking an officeworker to support downsizing. Of course they can't openly support it.Are people really that brain dead?
>>287594380No one wants actually free shit because it's always garbage, people want things that cost money for free.
This is my proposal.>Steam for anime/manga/light novels>>Raw untranslated works sold directly>>Companies like Crunchyroll, J-Novel Club, etc can sell their translations through this storefront as "DLC"/"Add-ons">>Users/groups like you, Commie, etc can sell or upload fan translations for free, retaining the community aspect which initially drove Japanese media to global popularity and offering the freedom and community to ensure the needs and desires of every customer are met. You have a particular styleguide for subs you prefer? You want to translate "Itadakimasu" as "Rub-a-dub-dub, thanks for the grub?" There is no official/professional translation of the language/dialect you speak? You can find it or create it yourself. This creates a way to maintain the value of the fan translator phenomenon, offers similar "streed cred" social benefits for those so inclined, and can even lead to job opportunities if a company can see a popular and highly rated fan translator getting many downloads and upvotes on an official platform where communication between the fan translator, the intermediate publisher such as YenPress, and the Japanese themselves is streamlined.>>User profile customization, avatars, achievements, fan art, chat groups, reviews, forums, etc. The success of Valve/Steam speaks for itself. If you build it, they will come.>>Forums in particular are a great way for the average consumer, translators, editors, and Japanese artists themselves to interact, offer feedback, and better understand each other and better their mediums and communities. Services like Steam, J-Novel Club, and Twitter exmeplify this.
>>287594576>>287594380Exactly lol, I buy japanese currency secondhand to pay for manga. A lot of these westerners want to respect japan's culture when it comes to them harassing localizers, attacking Yaauke, or defending pedophilia, but not when it comes to financially compensating the artists. It is the easiest cultural custom for anyone to do if they remotely tried.I am really bugged by their entitlement as well.
Mangaka will draw heroines having sex and being pregnant from other men in the fantasies of the MC, but they won't draw them having sex and being pregnant from MC.Curious.
