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This board is dedicated to the discussion of history and the other humanities such as philosophy, religion, law, classical artwork, archeology, anthropology, ancient languages, etc. Please use /lit/ for discussions of literature. Threads should be about specific topics, and the creation of "general" threads is discouraged.

For the purpose of determining what is history, please do not start threads about events taking place less than 25 years ago. Historical discussions should be focused on past events, and not their contemporary consequences. Discussion of modern politics, current events, popular culture, or other non-historical topics should be posted elsewhere. General discussions about international culture should go on /int/.

/his/ is not /pol/, and Global Rule #3 is in effect. Do not try to treat this board as /pol/ with dates. Blatant racism and trolling will not be tolerated, and a high level of discourse is expected. History can be examined from many different conflicting viewpoints; please treat other posters with respect and address the content of their post instead of attacking their character.

When discussing history, please reference credible source material, and provide as much supporting information as possible in your posts.

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sangley_Rebellion
>Spaniards, Japanese Ronin and Filipinos defeat a Chinese army
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>>2402943
The other Germans looked at their leader as if he was mad. Their radio was damaged and could not transmit, only receive; their unit was a considerable distance away; and they were out of ammunition and food. Sergeant Hossfelder later told his captain that he was in the wrong business, adding that the Propaganda Ministry could surely find a use for him.

The mayor fell for the ruse, and after an hour-long conversation with Klingenberg, he began the necessary arrangements for the surrender of the city. Then, as if on cue, a group of German aircraft flew over the city on a reconnaissance mission, and Klingenberg took advantage of the moment. He looked up, pointing to the sky, and reminded the mayor that the clock was ticking. Klingenberg gave his word that if all instructions were followed, no further harm would befall the city or its inhabitants. The city officials seemed relieved to hear that.
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>>2402946


The soldiers and city militia agreed to lay down their arms in exchange for the Germans’ ceasing additional attacks. The Yugoslav army stacked its arms in the city square, and Klingenberg had all of the men register with the mayor. Klingenberg then ordered the prisoners to quarter themselves in four of the largest hotels and posted a German guard to each building. The handful of Germans had just captured more than 1,300 troops and a city with a population of over 200,000 without firing a single shot. The city had suffered considerable damage, but not enough to prevent the locals from continuing with life and business as usual. Yugaslav soldiers outside the city, unaware of what had happened to their capital, drove into Belgrade only to be ordered by their superiors to lay down their arms, abandon their vehicles and march to the hotels. All the Yugoslavians complied without hesitation.

Klingenberg and his men made themselves comfortable in the city’s finest hotel, making fake radio transmissions to reinforce the charade. They stockpiled bottles of wine and weapons, and two of the men disappeared with a couple of local women. Meanwhile, Klingenberg consolidated his position, knowing that things could still go wrong. If the main force did not arrive soon, the game was up. He had his men recruit locals to help procure every map, police record and tax record in the city.
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>>2402947

The chief of police was ordered to provide a list of all criminals in the city, stating their crimes, age and other pertinent information. Women with nursing skills were to report for duty immediately, and all doctors were called in as well. Every liter of gasoline was accounted for, and oil, medical supplies and other necessities were placed in special holding facilities. The hospital was to be neutral ground, and all health care was to be maintained as a gesture of good will. Klingenberg even ordered the schools to remain open and placed no restrictions on daily business. He did, however, place an 8 p.m. curfew on the city; only citizens with a pass signed by him could legally venture outside their homes after that time.

The next day, April 13, more of Klingenberg’s men who had remained on the opposite side of the river followed their leader into the city. Seeing the German flag, they believed that the main force had somehow bypassed them. They were amazed to find the ‘lost’ men in command of the primary objective, with the locals not hostile but actually accommodating. Hossfelder told the new arrivals what had transpired and warned them to play along. They flexed their military muscle by commandeering every vehicle they could find.
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>>2402949


Finally, on the night of April 13, the forward elements of Das Reich entered the city expecting a heavy fight. They had disregarded radio transmissions they had received telling of the city’s surrender, believing it was an enemy hoax, possibly an attempt to lure German units into an ambush. Rumor had it that Klingenberg and his men had been captured, tortured and forced to release the codes required for proper radio communications. The XLV Corps commander was so furious at not having received his intelligence summary that he had threatened to have Klingenberg court-martialed if he were found alive as a prisoner. The first place he inquired for Klingenberg was at a brothel, figuring that he would find the renegade captain there. The corps commander’s fury soon subsided when he learned why his junior company commander had been negligent in his duties.

The rest of Das Reich and supplemental Heer Panzergrenadier units entered Belgrade in force the following day, and instead of fighting their way into the city, they were greeted with wine and cheese. The Yugoslav prisoners were conscripted to reinforce the German defense in case of partisan attacks. Sadly, when the mayor realized that he had been duped, he shot himself.
.
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>>2402951

On April 17, Josip Broz, better known as Tito, the trade unionist and leader of the ‘illegal’ Communist Party, acknowledged defeat in Yugoslavia and surrendered the country in name only. He fled into the mountains with his partisans, where, supported by the British, he waged a four-year guerrilla campaign against his country’s invaders. He would later become president of a Communist Yugoslavia, which nevertheless rejected association with the Soviet-dominated Warsaw Pact.Klingenberg persuaded the garrison commander to relinquish his maps and divulge the location of his minefields and gun emplacements, as well as the nearby anti-aircraft emplacements and adjacent auxiliary airstrip. Markers were placed that could be clearly seen from the air, and German transports were able to land, bringing food, ammunition and war correspondents. Klingenberg even had some of the prisoners repair the damaged runways and confiscated several obsolete aircraft.

German Intelligence had projected before Belgrade surrendered that Yugoslav army casualties would number approximately 10,000 to 15,000 wounded and 2,000 dead after massive Luftwaffe and artillery bombardment and a subsequent fight to enter the city. Civilian casualties were predicted to be 10 times those figures. Klingenberg was concerned for the welfare of his men, yet he was also worried about the fate of the civilians. He did not see the need for further bloodshed in the city, and his men were actually treated well by the civilians, who knew that they could have suffered a much worse fate.At first, the German high command did not believe that the city had been taken. There was even word that Klingenberg would be shot for trying to fake such an exploit. Two days of radio transmissions were needed to convince Berlin that all was well. Lieutenant General Paul Hausser was ordered to inspect for himself.

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Why was Japan the first non-Western nation that successfuly industrialised and started its own imperial expansion?

What was their secret?
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>>2396320
Japanese is anything but a hard or complicated language compared to the likes of their neighbours.

However, Koreans right next to them have what most consider the best writing system on Earth. Simple literacy is definitely not all there is to it.
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>>2397553
The Japanese already knew about the shit westerners could do when the Portuguese met them. Then when William Adams arrived he became the advisor for all things foreign and showed them how to make ships that weren't dogshit.
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>>2390627
You are cancer
>>
>>2390453
During the Industrial Revolution, Imperial Russia was more western than the Russian Federation is today. Maybe the traditions of old feudal Russia have been preserved among the peasantry, but the aristocracy and urban elite where wholly western in their practices for the most part. Old Russian traditions where basically outlawed during the reign of Peter the Great.
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>>2399948
>compared to the likes of their neighbours
Compared to any language really.

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How?
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>>2402890
This is stupid because that's still not objective morality. All it takes is a single person to disagree and you're right back to square one.
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>>2402890
Lmao so cultural relativism.
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>>2402894
>all it takes is a single person to disagree

No, it doesn't. Congratulations on not being able to read and/or immediately inverting things.

Social arbitration creates authority. All it takes is most people to not actively seek to change or resist the established morality. Even if most people disagree with it, as long as most people adhere to and uphold the expectations (which is literally what happens if you bother to look outside), the morality functions.

And even if they do, it doesn't fucking matter. Morality is mutative. If it changes, you have a new, objective morality. You are conflating "standards of social conduct decided upon by majority acceptance" with "authority imposed by extrahuman force which is irresistible".

>>2402897
Lmao so stuck in the 1930's at best, modernize your thought fuccboi
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>>2402906
>actually defending moral relativism

You do realize that there isn't a single legitimate ethicist in the world that takes cultural/moral relativism seriously, right? Like, have you even taken ethics 101?
>>
Has anyone ever refuted post-structuralist relativism?

Post bad flag designs. I'll start with the state of Maryland's flag
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>>2398152
What the hell
They could have just got rid of the ugly black and yellow and had the flag just be the red and white cross and it would have been god tier
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>>2398422
Lithuania, Novgorod, and Muscovy. I think that covers it, thank God for EU4
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>>2401229
read my mind comrade.
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>>2398384
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>>2398422
>enabling Russia's WE WUZ BYZANTINES autism
Desist. Also, the color combination is shit and the coats of arms do not belong strewn across the wings.

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Was Roman Empire the USA of their time?
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>>2402479
This is an apt comparison in a very general sense, which is to say it is a Western hegemon.
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>>2402312
Rome wasn't Roman. Rome had already ceased to exist and changed continents and religions by the time Rome was founded
>>
Yes. In many ways actually
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>>2402311
>Also China was at least as powerful as Rome for most of their histories

The fact that some people keep memeing this is actually kinda sad.
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>>2402939
>truth is meme
anon pls

Help me understand a Italian fascism, /his/.

I'm starting to get interested in fascism and I often see people praising Mussolini's regime over Hitler's reich. Did fascism help Italy? Was it good living there for the average person?

Can fascism make a successful nation in modern times? Can you have fascism without trying to be an autarky? I don't believe Jews are inherently evil and I'm not a white supremacist, and from what I've read this isn't an issue with Italian fascism.
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>>2399914
>the only country that I can recall to survive several decades with fascism
The United States. 1776-Present
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>>2400816
What country?
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>>2402854
EPIC NICE I LEIK
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>>2399770
>They were horribly awful at war
I'm pretty sure they had a substantial role in the Spanish Civil War. And as >>2400500 said, their military industry simply couldn't keep up with the ones of more powerful European countries during WWII. Doesn't mean they were horrible at war. Mussolini himself knew Italy couldn't have gone to war the time it did.

>>2400096
Fascism and National Socialism are two distinct ideologies. The former advocates for corporatism, Autarky and cultural hegemony, it is Futurist. The latter doesn't advocate for any economical system in particular. It advocates for an ethnostate which may or may not seek Autarky, it is Traditionalist.

Fascist Italy and Nazi Germany sure had some elements in common, like the Militarism, but saying they're the same thing or, as I've seen some people saying, that National Socialism is just a racist branch of Fascism, is wrong. They're both branches of Nationalism, and Nationalism is not like the Left and the Right, which remain the same wherever they are. Nationalism will be different for every country it is applied in. Because historical forces differ from country to country, and so does Nationalism.
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>>2400038
hitler got a lot farther in life than u did pal,
just saying...

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Is their any indo-european word that every european language use today?
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>>2402505
Grammatically it is but phonologically it's not all that weird.
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>>2402566
>Grammatically
How?
>>
Yoke.
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>>2401263

http://www.zompist.com/euro.htm

Strangely none of the branches agree in their rendering of numbers 11-19.
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>>2401345
Yep. The vowel shift is nuts too.

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Post'em
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>>2401568
>roach spotted
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>>2397496
>This hipster millennial "the west has no culture"
I have actually never heard this from a millennial
>>
>>2401035

desu at least all those weapons were seen as weapons to kill people with

shotguns were seen as hunting weapons by europeans and so it was "inhumane" to shoot at men like they were animals (also because they were hella effective)
>>
>>2401206
>discrediting three gigantic and hugely influential branches of music because they were largely started by black people
K I L L Y O U R S E L F
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>>2395243
>was second only to the United States and the Soviet Union
So it was third

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The "violence" in the Qur'an and foundations of Islam is not what you all make it seem. Let me try to explain.

"Jihad" is the Islamic concept of "struggle." There are two main types of jihad: greater jihad, or the internal struggle to make oneself a better person, and lesser jihad, the external struggle to make society a better place. In the latter, there are three subcategories: jihad by the word, jihad by the hand, and jihad by the sword. The Qur'an strongly encourages external jihad to first be taken with the word and by the hand. Jihad by the word includes actions such as writing books to change a country, writing letters to businesses and congress, etc. Jihad by the hand is crafting or building things to improve the world.

Jihad by the sword is strongly discouraged in the Qur'an, but it is allowed in certain circumstances (strictly limited to only in self-defense and to overthrow a dictator). And, the Qur'an has extremely strict rules for this warfare, stricter than the rules of war of the UN. Killing the elderly and children is forbidden, killing those in mosques is not allowed, warriors are not allowed to commit suicide in their battles, etc. Islam is truly a very peaceful, humanitarian religion, but it is also practical in this sense because it allows war when it is the only successful and effective method of improving the world (objectively).

Muslim terrorist groups such as ISIS take this idea of jihad and radicalize it. They ignore the principles of Islam that forbid inhumane acts of war, and they are criminals of Islamic law. We all need to become more aware of these core foundations of Islam, and we cannot associate these horrible organizations with the beautiful religion itself.

Islam is a religion of peace, and we all just need to learn about each other before we form such harsh judgements and prejudices.
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>>2401553
The recent radicalization of Islam is complex because it lies at the fault lines of several societal currents. It is recent, because it is wholly unique from other examples of religious violence, and is intimately connected with interaction with Western powers.
Europe has had its fair share of religious violence in its history, with the crucial moment being the Wars of Religion following the development of Protestantism. The indecisiveness of these conflicts led to the creation of secularism, the idea that religion belongs to a certain - small - sphere of life. This religious minimalism is what took hold in most of Europe in various degrees, and is what they propagated to the rest of the world through colonization.
Anti-colonization movements, particularly in the Middle East, stressed religious maximalism in opposition to Western control and to develop their own nationalisms (as they simultaneously adopted the modal nation-state format as a means of governance).
In the 19th and 20th centuries, western powers caused instability in the Middle East to retain control of the natural resources there following decolonization, and to stem the perceived influence of communism. This included the funding and training of radicalized military organizations and the support of brutal regimes that strengthened the resolve of fundamentalists. Western intervention in the area created a rhetoric of maximalism, then emboldened and supported this rhetoric and its affiliated organizations in order to capitalize on the economic benefits of the regions. When the organizations turned on the United States and other powers, this was used to justify further - and more overt - military intervention. It is a very profitable cycle.
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>>2400427
You realize the Islamic version of "The judgement day" is a time when Muslims become a minority in the world, and even many Muslims themselves become "imposters" who don't really follow Islam, and Islam becomes a obscure, little-known religion?
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>>2391910
>Let me try to explain.
No, I will not listen to you rant.
You are an irrational little boy who is nothing but a follower in a cult and desperate to be a man. I'm not an idiot: I can see the things you believe in and likely have already done and I want no part of your beliefs or actions. In your ignorance, you reject God the Good for your filthy one of hate.
>>
>>2401553
I find your lack of knowledge disturbing

http://www.politico.eu/article/why-the-arabs-dont-want-us-in-syria-mideast-conflict-oil-intervention/
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>>2392097
I assume because in a country where you get your hand cut off if you steal then they probably don't treat revolutionaries very well

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>Just as smart
>has their own language
>has ape strength

How the fuck did we drove them to extinction? and what would have happened if they existed in recorded history? would there be a divide in the species? would the military prefer Neantherdals in their numbers?
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They are literally no more different from us than a Black man is different to a European man. We even share some DNA of theirs.
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>>2399506
>Neatherdal
They were bred out by miscegenating homos.
Consider this simple fact the next time you browse Reddit.
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>>2399506
>would the military prefer Neantherdals in their numbers?
Would not the other guys have N's in their pack?
Wars would be the same: people killing and people dying. It'd only look different to the naive.
>>
Didn't humans outnumber neanderthals substantially
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They couldn't adapt to change as well as we could.

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Has there been any multicultural civilization?
Why does it work so well in USA?
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>>2399991
That is a really good description.
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>>2401006
>burgers

>>>>/int/
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>>2400328
>It used to be that blacks were decently civilized (see 60's and before that)
Yeah the blacks were way better off before they had any civil rights
And with them being so decently civilized, it's not like any white people had any issues with them, especially not leading droves of them to be lynched in the streets!
>>
>>2402920

much less blacks were killed by lynch mobs then in drive-by's now, even taken proportion into account

blacks before the civil rights movement were far more deserving of equal rights compared to now
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>>2402928
You're not going back far enough
blacks before the emancipation proclamation were the most deserving of equal rights
at least those niggers knew how to pick cotton and shut the fuck up

TFW the most successful nation ever was libertarian.
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>one of the largest tax and post bureaucracies in pre-industrial history
>major diplomatic bureaucracy
>government investment in advanced technology
>liberal immigration policy to attract skilled workers

It was a technocracy and the Mongol imperial government is one of the under-appreciated wonders of history.
>>
>>2400960
It was neither a nation nor successful
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>>2401062

Someone is trying to one up you OP, say another retarded thing quick.
>>
>>2400960

America is communist!
>Rome fell in 1453
>the Americas were discovered in 1492
>China has lots of luscious land and is definitely not 75% steppe
>Aliens exist and have single handedly determines every event in the world.

Am I doing it right?
>>
>>2401637
>>the Americas were discovered in 1492
whats wrong with this
sure some viking snownigger found out earlier but he did nothing with it

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>a samurai could beat a knight
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>>2402553
Koala b8 m8
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>>2402589
I'd say a 15th century knight in full plate would beat a samurai most of the time

Anytime before that is fair game
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>>2402886
a samurai with a kanabo would definitely stand a chance
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>>2402896
How? That thing is heavy to wield and it's not like the knight is just going to stand there and let himself get hit.
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>>2402904
You could say the same thing about any heavy weapon, you get hit by a big guy with something like that and it'll cave your bones in regardless of how superior your armour is

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Why has the cause of the war been boiled down to 'MUH SLAVERY' in pop culture? While it certainly created a cultural rift in the nation and it was by no means the only cause of the war or even the biggest (arguably).
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>>2402845
>still doesn't get the joke
you ARE the joke.
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>>2392328
Show me the part where factory owner held the workers at gunpoint telling them to buy this property and to work this factory.
>>
>>2402871
>They had their own, equally deplorable system of exploitative cheap labor.
Right, because marching your workers in chains out into the fields and lashing them severely for trying to improve themselves is the equivalent to giving someone citizenship and an honest day's wages
> The north just happened to pay their workers, which suddenly make it justifiable.
And grant them citizenship, which was the key. People were willing to deal with crap living conditions if it meant that they could live in a country that rewarded them for working hard and gave them a say in how they were governed. Anyone could come to America and be an American, that has always been and will be the core of the Union's strength and what made the industrial era possible, and precisely why the CSA was build on a house of cards whose economy had ossified around a single industry

>Slavery was going to die out anyway.
That was the cop-out position adopted by the founding fathers to kick the can down the road, none of whom predicted how profitable the cotton gin would make slavery.

Slavery was exploding in the south, which is why they were looking to extend their territories west and south, and why they were that buttblasted about Lincoln promising to let them keep their slaves in exchange for not making any more slave states
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>>2402871
>equally deplorable
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>>2402900
The only reason northern factory owners didn't do that is because there was an ample supply of prospective workers that would line up as soon as there was an opening to work. Also, immigrants who didn't work would starve anyways. There was a figurative gun to the head of a Northern factory worker, using a real one would just be inefficient. In other words, factory workers where kept in line by their economic status, and the sadly naive hope that they could better their lot in life. The use of force by southern slave owners is just easier to demonize.

You can justify it an say a factory worker had the choice to leave, but how can you leave when you have no savings, and you rely on your next payment just to pay rent and get just enough food to survive? The things that a Northern factory worker had to pay for was provided by slave owners to their slaves for the most part. Also what good is pay when it only covers the absolute basics of survival, its just a different form of slavery.

Slavery is unjust, don't get me wrong, but there is no moral high ground to take between the two choices here.



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