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This board is dedicated to the discussion of history and the other humanities such as philosophy, religion, law, classical artwork, archeology, anthropology, ancient languages, etc. Please use /lit/ for discussions of literature. Threads should be about specific topics, and the creation of "general" threads is discouraged.

For the purpose of determining what is history, please do not start threads about events taking place less than 25 years ago. Historical discussions should be focused on past events, and not their contemporary consequences. Discussion of modern politics, current events, popular culture, or other non-historical topics should be posted elsewhere. General discussions about international culture should go on /int/.

/his/ is not /pol/, and Global Rule #3 is in effect. Do not try to treat this board as /pol/ with dates. Blatant racism and trolling will not be tolerated, and a high level of discourse is expected. History can be examined from many different conflicting viewpoints; please treat other posters with respect and address the content of their post instead of attacking their character.

When discussing history, please reference credible source material, and provide as much supporting information as possible in your posts.

Why were the Byzantines so bad at fighting the Muslims?
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>>2238923
So they just don't have any need for the Atonement unlike the other two Abrahamic religions?
>>
>>2238929

To give a direct answer, no: all the divine grace depends on what one does during his lifetime that determinates what one deserves (Gardens or Hellfire).
>>
>>2238948
Isn't that sort of minimally disrespectful to Isaac or don't they really care that much about it? Sorry if I'm boring you btw.
>>
>>2238953

The concept of 'atonement' itself is Christian concept. Sin and salvation from sin simply are not at the heart of Judaism and Islam, because neither of them are salvatory religions the way Christianity is. In mainstream Christianity all of mankind is cursed with original sin. So Jesus had to commit suicide on the cross, and sacrifice himself to himself to convince himself to forgive us. This view is unknown to Judaism and Islam because both religions believe grace and grace alone not sacrifice stone sins. Technically Judaism is not even a religion of theology. Judaism evolved a theology due to the Islamicate but at least officially there is no such thing as Jewish theology. Remember chazal, the sages of the Talmud legislated Halacha, they never legislated dogmas. Granted modern Judaism has devolved a lot from its original chazalic origins. As for this jurisprudential view of salvation in Islam, while this is a common sentiment amongst modernized bakris even classical Sunni theology did not exactly emphasize such a legalistic view of salvation. In eastern Christianity unlike western Christianity the goal is atonement and then theosis. In Islam the goal is theosis proper. It is not just a question of squaring away a laundry list of good deed verses bad deeds, but rather the goal is to progress into righteousness, and ultimately into full on taqwa. In the riwayah an Imam was asked what is Islam, He replied Islam is ecstatic Love. What that ecstatic Love is a different question than the often legalistic views of Sunnism and Judaism which often see juridical salvation as an ends unto itself.

Yes there is legalism but what is the legalism about ? The sirat is about bringing us into Imam-consciousness (G-d consciousness or taqwa). This is something jesus spends the gospel explaining to the Pharisees. They followed the letter of the law rather than the heart of the law. The law has a purpose and is not a means into itself.
>>
>>2239528
I couldn't put everything in a single comment, so here is the remaining part.

Because of Greek peripatetics we are stuck in static ontology and no longer see dynamism. Walayah is not a station the way Greek nuanced Muslims think. For many modern Sufis and others engaging the Qur'an through Greek thought often 'walayah' becomes a station, a platonic sanctity. There is no room in the Qur'an for this static view of walayah.

Walayah is a symbiosis not a station, it is something given and received. Per Shi'ism Walayah is a Love given to the Divinity (the Imam) and in dialectic fashion it is also a Love received from the Imam. It is a non-stop action/energy between two parties, Divinity/Lahuti and adept/Nasuti. It is a double helix mapped even in the staff of Hermes/Idris that is so often used in Islamic occult lore.

In Hebrews 4:12 there is another sober warning “For the living Logos/Imam of God, and [the living] Energies, also sharper than a two edge sword, passing through, dividing both the soul and spirit, joints from marrow, judging the thought and intents of the heart”. In this verse, in English Bibles the Greek word "energea" (which is the origin of the English word energy) is just dropped from the text. The implication in the Greek is that the “logos” is one edge, and the “energy” is the other edge of the sword, implying that without this Energy, one is not fully armed. The energies/shekinah/sakinah/walayah of the Imam. When you become cosubstantial with the Imam you partake of walayah. Symbiosis in love, when give love and receive. And the culmination of that symbiosis is resurrection into eternal life at the holy resurrection.

Hope this replies your questions.

Should poor people banned from having children ?

Discuss.
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>>2239458
Well, what can peasant smallholdings be other than terribly unproductive? That's simply how they are, though we've had them for longer than we have not.
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>>2239468
I'm looking at the UN numbers for the fertility rate of Sub-Saharan Africa from 2000-2020 and it says exactly what I posted. The fertility rate of SS Africa is a hair over 5. The birthrate is calculated births per 1000 people over a year so I have no idea how you're getting a figure like '8' since the actual birthrate is something like 30+.

http://data.un.org/Data.aspx?q=Sub-Saharan+Africa&d=PopDiv&f=variableID%3a54%3bcrID%3a947

It's obvious that you have some asinine assumption about inferior negroids breeding out of control already taken to heart and interpret everything you see through that lens.
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>>2239472
>rankish peasants and nobles
they very fact that they had a social structure with "peasants and nobles" illustrates the societal difference. Obviously, every society needs farmers and Europe was no different But as different industries developed and you had the need for different types of craftsmen, sailors, artisans, damn builders, stone masons, etc..., having children no longer became necessary for these people in the way children were simply a commodity for farmers. A blacksmith with 12 children would have a difficult time giving each one proper apprentice training.

Thus the reason I used "the phrase "post-Enlightenment." Probably equally valid to use to term "post-Rennisance" or..there are a variety or different option and no two academics would agree. But the overall idea is the same-- in much of the West, children were no longer simply a necessary commodity to work on the farmland work to earn more than his own keep and thus make the farm more productive. Lots of interesting books on this if you care.
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>>2239504
Also for reference, America in the 1800s when it was still mostly rural had a higher fertility than Sub-Saharan Africa today. SS-Africa is undergoing the same transition from rural & agrarian to urban & industrial/service based that ALL countries have gone through and birthrates will decline accordingly.
>>
There should be a limit of how many poor people there are. We still need armies, service/low skilled jobs.

They shouldn't be allowed to multiply like you see in Detroit, slums in Cairo, India, and Africa.

why did Spain try to assimilate and couldn't keep their benises in their pants with natives instead of just enslave & genocide everything like the rest of colonial countries
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>>2239240
Best post ITT.
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>>2238492

This is what happened in Eastern Africa and even the Sahel.

Many Negroes actually have Eurasian heritage in the exact same way many Mexicans have Paternal European lineages.

Europeans are sharing their superior genetics with their less privileged neighbors.
>>
The brits settled there while the Spaniards were basically expats
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>>2239297
> They weren't pro assimilation
They married to locals from the beginning tho. Cortes had offspring with two mexica woman (and fucked this nahuas woman called the malinche)

The catholic church was hellbent on evangelizing the locals to get more adepts and so more power.

> Iberian colonies were mercantile
They were exploitative. They wanted to extract resources, some of which were not valued by the locals at all, so social unrest was less unlikely.
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>>2239212
Hacer las américas (literally "to make the Americas"): It meant to go to the new world in search of new opportunities. Those who succeeded and returned to Europe richer were called "indianos", and they usually built nice homes with the money they made.

Still used nowadays, usually in the context of going to the USA.

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What if we never bought Alaska from Russia?
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The cold war would've gotten hot fast as fuck, or Alaska forms a republic during October revolution
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>>2239489
The Russians would probably sell it to the British and it would be a part of Canada.
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>>2239505
>The cold war would've gotten hot fast as fuck
Why?
>>
Sarah Palin would literally see Russia from her porch/window.
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>>2239518
Look at a fucking map some time. We dam near ended the world over Cuba, having a part of the actual Soviet Union so close to the USA would have guaranteed a nuclear war.

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Since everyone asked for it, here it is: the thread to discuss and learn about Swedish history.

If you need to catch up on parts of Swedens history, i can happily summarise it. Other than that, share your thoughts and questions in this board
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>>2239285
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Sweden#Demographics

>According to Eurostat, in 2010, there were 1.33 million foreign-born residents in Sweden, corresponding to 14.3% of the total population. Of these, 859,000 (64.3%) were born outside the EU and 477,000 (35.7%) were born in another EU Member State.[17][18]
>>
>>2233691

My ancestors are from Skane, and Mississippi, how southern am I?
>>
>>2239391
100%
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>>2236752
Shes qt. Where can I get a women like this?
>>
>>2239465
Lappland?

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>The one becomes two, the two becomes three, and out of the third comes the one as fourth.

Where were you when you realized reality is an eternally self-evolving perfection?
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>>2237553

>The fourth becomes five, the fifth comes the one as a sixth.

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Redpill me on the spanish civil war, por favor.

pic unrelated
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>>2238792
just one tip, the ones hating people and forcing their morals were the national side who almost threw the country back into the middle ages
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>>2238830
I never said otherwise.
They just didn't argue as much with themselves.
The cost of freedom is that you have a harder time forming a uniform army.
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>>2238836
>hating your neighbor for having slightly different morals than yours, aka the guys from the Republic
and yes, while the fascists were more or less just one big side the republican loyals were a ton of different factions plus the political situation
>>
>>2238864
But that's what I said.
Or what I meant.
Sorry if I wasn't clear.
>>
>>2238864

They weren't 'one big side'.

Falange wasn't monarchist and certainly wasn't pro-clerical, the Carlistas were the polar opposite, the military was the military, the CEDA was yes we can into Oligarchy, the Church was the Church and etc.

But they all stood together and focused 100% on the things they had in common: fuck the Republic and win the war. Then Franco eventually proceeded to cuck everyone under his wings, eventually giving birth to that peculiar, bizarre shit known as Francoism.

In the other side, for every reasonable, moderate republican calling for unity, you had 10 useless catacucks, 5 moscow-approved commies, 4 non moscow-approved commies, 2 catholic basques, 20 manchildren, 3 syndicalists, 2 ex-convicts, 1 bullfighting aficionado englishman, 1 anti-hitler czech legion and 8 anarcholibertarians making the agro revolution in the mounts of bumfuckistan, and obviously 0 international support except the one achieved by moving the entire gold reserves of the Bank of Spain to Moscow. All of them setting up as #1 priority masturbating to the sound of their own voice.

That's why some won and some got utterly rekt or ended up in dreadful refugee camps in France treated like shit by the French (before becoming like 75% of the '''''french'''''' Resistance in WWII)

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Why does the idea of a strict hierarchy that revolves around genetic determinism bother so many people? Is it because it hits too close to home?
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>>2237188
>you don't become an Olympic level swimmer without the genes for it

And you can completely fail to become one even if you DO have the genes for it.
>>
> implying genes even play a big role in how successful you are
As long as you don't have a severe defect you have just as much potential as everyone else. Sports =/= success.

Stop blaming your shortcomings on "muh genes"
>>
>>2237255
The biggest determinant is still how successful and wealthy your parents are. Meritocracy is only a half-assed goal, not reality.
>>
>>2237139
>strict hierarchy that revolves around genetic determinism
It's literally unscientific. It ignores a ton of major factors, including biological ones that aren't merely DNA like epigenetics and the effect of intrauterine environment.
>>
Is it possible to create a gene of wings and literally put them in the DNA of a human?

-A high school student from California

April 27, 2010

Wouldn't that be awesome? Just like Angel from X-Men! Too bad there's no way to pull something like this off as easily as they do in the comics.

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>Europeans develop better technology because they have access to one of the prime agricultural regions in the world, close to major trade routes, with plenty of coal, and beasts of burden
>Take over the entire world
>Genocide millions of natives
>Strip mine the resources of the locals
>Keep the prime agricultural lands for themselves, fill these colonies with white people only
Fastforward to the 21st century
>Whiteys: "lololol why is Africa starving? They must be stupid lol we whites are superior"

Europe should return the prime agricultural lands they stole to their natives. Give South Africa back to the Blacks. Give Canada, USA, Argentina back to the Native Americans. Give New Zealand to the Maoris. Give Australia to the Aborigines.

Whites can keep Europe.
They can go back there.
Give back to the world the prime lands you stole.
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>>2239373
>japan
>china
>korea
>all btfo by whitey but manage to comeback

>blacks
????

The only people worthy of history are from the megacontinent of eurasia and their descendants.
>>
>>2239454
None of those countries had their land occupied and colonized by Europeans
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>>2239469
How can a single person bear so much stupidity in his shoulders? must be a twrrible burden senpai>>2239469
>>
>>2239373
Will African Americans fuck off to Africa? Will Asians return to Asia? Will Arabs return to the Middle East? Will Jews return to the oven?
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>>2239509
What? The Joseon, Yamato, and Qing dynasties were never usurped by European powers to even half the extent that you see in places like Africa and Southeast Asia.

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What is this hairstyle called and how do I get one without showing the barber a picture of Joseph Stalin?
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What is this hairstyle called and how do I get one without showing the barber a picture of Adolf Hitler?
>>
>>2239440
he pretended to be you because stalin tried to bury the 2nd pic and autist thinks that dead stalin will give a shit whether or not autist corrects the record on a medium invented long after his death in his stone tomb
>>
>>2239455
The Führer Frisur
The Third Haarschnitt
>>
>>2239420
This is a mug shot, getting pulled in by the russian police meant you were gonna get roughed up a little.
>>
>>2239506
He looks malnourished af. What was he a prole or something?

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>Instruction in world history in the so-called high schools is even today in a very sorry condition. Few teachers understand that the study of history can never be to learn historical dates and events by heart and recite them by rote; that what matters is not whether the child knows exactly when this battle or that was fought, when a general was born, or even when a monarch (usually a very insignificant one) came into the crown of his forefathers. No, by the living God, this is very unimportant. To 'learn' history means to seek and find the forces which are the causes leading to those effects which we subsequently perceive as historical events.

Is he right /his/?
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>>2239315
t. Bong
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>>2239375
Hitler managed to fucking insta-wipe France (when in WW1 they wrecked Germany's shit). If that wasn't enough to win WW2, nothing is.
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>>2236553
To an extent, the forces leading to events are often other events, and while memorizing dates is often a bit much, chronology is important.

Also, can we stop it with this guy? Not a day goes by we don't bitch about someone who's job it is to teach history to people younger and less interested in it than us and then judge him negatively for not catering to us.
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>>2236553
Hitler quote.
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>>2236553
Nah. Historical forces are an okay starting point but tend to amount to contemporary political opinions projected onto the past. Knowing the chronology is crucial to understanding what people might have actually considered important and what would never have occurred to them.

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Can we get a /his/ memes thread?
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>>2226429
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>>2221474
>>2238664
Israel is our greatest ally
>>
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>>2226419
do it again Bomber Harris
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>>2222564
Thank you anon Zhukov is my waifu and is one of the more underrated generals in history desu

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How do you justify eating meat? Do you consider hunting morally acceptable opposed to factory farming?
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>>2239314
>There is no way to reduce our impact on the world without actually reducing how many of us are here.
Good news then - human population will decrease starting in around 2050 or so. The long lifespan of humans confuses the picture.

>>2239350
>It takes more energy to create cow meat from cows eating soy than simply creating soy.
Irrelevant argument.
>>
>>2239370
>sadists are few and far between
Oh you innocent summer child!
>>
>>2239463
*ethical
>>
I do not justify it, I merely eat it. It's the same with everything I consume.
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>>2237194
>Do you consider hunting morally acceptable opposed to factory farming?
Yes.

Kill for Sustenance, War for Territory.

> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_WHGV5bejk

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>>2225624
Model 94
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>>2220699
This.
>tfw no great power wars
>>
We should bring back sword dueling. I think that'd be neat.
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>>2230843
Literally the opposite. The area was the birthplace of some of histories most violent conquerors
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>>2237913
I know the laws are restrictive here, but it's not exactly impossible. What's your excuse?



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