Which Roman era Germanic tribe or state had the most impact? Hard mode: Besides the Franks and the Anglo-Saxons that is.
>>16552967While they ultimately had a massive impact, the Franks got put the the ringer more than a few times when Western Rome still existed. Their story is very inspiring. I think the answer would obviously be Goths. No one among the Germanic tribes achieved as much in a military sense. It's a shame they abandoned their ways and got soft in Iberia.
>>16553096Nords are suckers for meditinas. The Visigoths did form the only new city in the early middle-ages. That’s a bright spot. But is any Gothic legacy still around In Spain or Italy?
>>16553257I don't know enough about Iberian history to answer that anon. For Italy we know the Lombards and Franks had a bigger cultural impact. You could rightfully say that culturally and even genetically Italy has the most Germanic influence of the Mediterranean countries, and Greece is a bit stronger than I expected. I listened to a speech by an esoteric nigga from Spain, he was a Gnostic or something weird. His speech was about runic carvings and how the dagaz rune specifically became a part of the occultic practice in Spain and elsewhere. And the legal system of the Goths, it was actually quite advanced and important to law there quite long after the last Gothic speakers were gone, centuries after.
>>16552967how is norwegian a tribe? doesn't it just mean "northwesterner" or something?>>16553257>But is any Gothic legacy still around In Spain or Italy?goths have literaly left no genetic impact on spain. their only impact was that the (mostly basque) spanish nobility larped as them to legitimate their conqest over other christian kingdom.
>>16553296>And the legal system of the Goths, it was actually quite advanced and important to law there quite long after the last Gothic speakers were gone, centuries afterLargely based on writing by Hispano-Romans (like Isidore of Seville) and almost entirely based on Roman law, even more than the already very latin Salic law. Hell it evens get inspiration to an extant from Justinian's Corpus juris civilis
>>16553315>Largely based on writing by Hispano-RomansI wouldn't doubt that. But it was in the form of Visigothic law that all such concepts retained preeminence.
>>16553304It wasn't a LARP if they had legitimate descent from Pelagius.
>>16553096>No one among the Germanic tribes achieved as much in a military senseQuick rundown on the pathetic race of subhumans know as the Goths:>Get chased out of Poland by proto slavs>Get chased out of central-eastern europe by Huns>Sack Rome by chance when the city was at its lowest in what was like the 5th AD equivalent of a BLM rally>Get btfo out of southern France by Franks>Go to Hispania because some sephardi/canarian-like hispano-roman mutts invited you, get btfo repeatedly by actual Spaniards (Asturians and Basques) and fail to conquer them>Win a war against France over Septimania thanks to a Hispano-Roman general named Claudius>Constantly bicker between yourselves like niggers>Moorchads invade, get btfo by them in 11 little years>tfw your civilization was so shit than even Pisslam seem far superior in comparison>Meanwhile the Spaniards you failed to conquer launch the Reconquista>Said Spaniards start to larp as Goths because by chance they were the last Christian political entity on the Iberian peninsula>tfw your only legacy is that Taliban looking Spanish nobles like the duke of Alba larp as Goths.Lmao at these pathetic faggots
>>16553335Pelagius was as much a Goth as I'm Chinese.
>>16552967>Besides the Franks and the Anglo-Saxons that is.Easily the Visigoths, since restoring Visigothic Hispania was the motivation for the Reconquista, which ultimately led to the contact of the Americas.
>>16553363>since restoring Visigothic Hispania was the motivation for the ReconquistaIt wasn't otherwise it would have been a Germanic Arian kingdom instead of a Catholic Latin one.
>>16553349Pure, unadulterated schizophrenia
>>16553354>11 sources of seetheSeems like a LARP
>>16553381Nice argument>>16553384You didn't even look into any of them. I doubt you even speak Spanish, you're probably a weird nordicist who seek to larp as reconquistadors or some shit. Go make a thread about the ancient greeks being nordic from outer space or something.
>>16553398I speak it fine enough. It's just a sure sign of seethe. Even now you sound like that Bulgarian lady who seethed against Turks for 20 years on wikipedia. Too chuddy to discuss history with me.
>>16553411>against Turks for 20 yearsMehmet, try to be less obvious.
West African-Saxon
>>16553398Two (2) Roman emperor's heads speak louder than any gay words.
>>16553424It's only a testament of how shit Rome was at that time than anything else.
>>16553441>W-we just sucked then is all. Subhuman g*rmanix couldn't beat us at our be-ACK...
>>16553458A fluke. Romans won battle against the Germans at a ratio of 3 or 4 to 1 before the 3rd century.
>>16553304>goths have literaly left no genetic impact on spainIt’s pretty crazy. The Goths settled the whole of central Iberia and they are just gone. They were 500k in a population of 8 million. They should have left something.
>>16553473t. Coper McCopeson the III
>>16552967Alemanni. Baden-Wurttemberg produced extremely many great Germans and many dynasties like Habsburgs, Hohenzollerns, Hohenstaufens, etc were alemanni in origin
>>16553483Their own law forbid them to marry with locals so that might explain that. The small admixture in Catalonia is likely due to historical French/Swiss/Flemish immigrants, btw.
>>16553483It's more that Central Spain is largely uninhabited. The vast majority live on the coasts. There's nothing there except forest and rundown vineyards. I really like it though.
>>16553489German are also know as Aleman in French, Spanish, Portuguese and possibly other language (which honestly make more sense than calling them German which is way too broad)
>>16553500That's not how it works.
>>16553500Also the fact that since the Steppe, actual Goths were a fragment of the Gothic population. Likely the vast majority were not of any Germanic type, but rather clang to a legacy of the Goths. The Goths were very southern-shifted genetically. Something similar was going on in Rome and Roman provinces with Italian ancestry and names, a kind of proto-Amerimutt anomaly.
>>16553516>actual Goths were a fragment of the Gothic populationLombards still left a noticeable genetic legacy in Italy. Even the Normans in Sicily who were a small elite.There's 2 theory:1. Goths didn't intermarry with Iberians at all. They then were mixed out of existence after the muslim cucked them and took their wives (my favorites, because it involves nordcucks being cucks)2. They were only Goths in name and in fact were Illyrian EV13 carriers who larped as Goths. These Illyrians were Austrian/Alsatian like genetically so in all likeliness they mixed with Goths through their women. It still involves nordcucks being cucks, but since Illyrians are less exotic than the moors it's less fun.
>>16553531More so that many of the actual Goths left for France after their shitty kingdom in Iberia was defeated. That way Iberians could go back to being pointless resentful non-achievers and squabbling peasants for the next several centuries as is the custom.
>>16553540The seethe is real.
>>16553540Iberian Derangement.>>16553500Central Iberia was great pasture lands and the Goths were still herding. They should have dispersed into the background of the Iberian DNA. Only explanation I can think of is they all got purged during the Reconquista.
>>16552967How come the Seubi aren't also in Southern Germany in this map where they actually ended up?
>>16553349Goths fought like a dozen different campaigns all across Europe against varying enemies in the late 4th century/5th century and yet they never perished as an individual group due to conquest or assimilation. That gets my respect. The Goths evwn fought against the Huns unlike most other Germanic Tribes. Franks were on Attila's side.
>>16553483>>16553531You are not from here, you don´t know what the Goths did.They were not allowed to mix since 400 until 589 because they were different religion from the natives (arianism vs catholicism). When Recaredo converted to catholicism all the Goths mixed with natives. The fact that DNA companies don´t find "germanic DNA" in most of Spain is because the samples that all DNA companies use are 1000 people from the big capitals (aka most of them are samples from big coastal cities and Madrid). Most of the Goths established in the most rural and isolated areas of Castilla and there no DNA test has been done ever and if they tested they would score 20-30% germanic in haplogroups. I live in an area heavily settled by goths (I am also blond and blue eyed) and we have a higher frequency of blond blue eyed people and in some cases perfect looking germanic types. Or where do you think these people got their very germanic appareance? from the celts? from the WHG? Ridiculous.
>>16553582>and yet they never perished as an individual group due to conquesthttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_conquest_of_the_Iberian_Peninsula
>>16553589I said it to you several times but you're terminally autistic and hopeless. Yes these phenotypes in Spain have 0 relation to any germanic admixture
>>16553545Your seethe is lowly resentment and cringe. Mine is only rational, disgust for what is low. Logical even. >>16553572>Only explanation I can think of is they all got purged during the ReconquistaIf that were the case they wouldn't have basically the only signature for y-DNA in Asturia and Moortugul. Those who became Muslim, which is my understanding that many Goths enthusiastically became as such may have been petty kingdoms or provinces or whatever in central Iberia. They deserved it imo. That would make sense. I still maintain that they simply were not all that Gothic by the time they reached Iberia, not in Y-DNA and certainly not autosomally.
>>16553349I agree in general, but>tfw your civilization was so shit than even Pisslam seem far superior in comparisonThis one is BS though, literally all the things Muzzies brag about was what was there before and didn't exist in the middle East.They just stole some stuff from European civilization like they did everywhere else.
>>16553603>MineBruh admitted he was seething.
>>16553589>where do you think these people got their very germanic appareance? from the celts? from the WHG? Ridiculous.Probably steppe ancestry.
>>16553304>their only impact was that the (mostly basque) spanish nobility larped as themHas there been a more hilarious case of WE WUZ than hispanix larping as goths for centuries?
>>16553589There is a similar problem in Danish DNA and lack of popularity in testing in that country compared to any other Germanic country. It has become a bit frustrating for some trying to piece together various migrations, considering how vital Denmark was to the whole of such history.
>>16553618I insulted an entire peninsula because of you NIGGER
>>16553622It wasn't ridiculous, it was just how politics were at the time
>>16553627Boiling.
>>16553629Can you imagine some castilianx diplomat smacking his lips and mumbling we wuz goffs n shit at an audience with the pope though, must've been a sight to see
>>16553634It's the Vrill. You wouldn't understand.
>>16553458Those weren't Goths though, they were primarily Seubi.
>>16553531>1. Goths didn't intermarry with Iberians at all. They then were mixed out of existence after the muslim cucked them and took their wives (my favorites, because it involves nordcucks being cucks)There's no trace of Muslim male DNA either.>2. They were only Goths in name and in fact were Illyrian EV13 carriers who larped as Goths. These Illyrians were Austrian/Alsatian like genetically so in all likeliness they mixed with Goths through their women. It still involves nordcucks being cucks, but since Illyrians are less exotic than the moors it's less fun.The R1b subclade in Spain is not Illyrian though.There is still some I* subclades that are actually Gothic as well as a very small number of Germanic R1b subclades. Native Iberians just became more dominant over time. There's no reason it shouldn't happen.
>>16553582>Franks were on Attila's side.There were Franks on both sides.
>>16553589>Or where do you think these people got their very germanic appareance? from the celts? from the WHG? Ridiculous.Nigger blonde/blue eye is not "Gothic", Goths themselves are CWC men who raped I2 Scandi abbos.And yes, Celts had that appearance as did other Germanics and the EBA Steppe ancestors of Spain/Italy.
>>16553674They raped FBK, not SHG.
>>16553657>The R1b subclade in Spain is not Illyrian though.I'm talking about EV13>There is still some I* subcladesI2 isn't Gothic and I1 is awol
>>16553679The point is blonde/blue is not a unique Germanic trait, it exists in varying levels in all Europeans. Blockhead/square jaw etc. is, but blonde/blue is not unique to Germanics at all and is most common in Finns.
>>16553683There was I2 in Germanic migrations, in Goths and Lombards. I1 is mostly on the coast unless testing in the hinterlands is inadequate as that Spanish anon implied.
>>16553692I2 in Spain isn't Gothic.
>>16553683>I2 isn't GothicYeah it is, it's from pre-Germanic Scandis, but still present in Goths who carried I2 men with them.
>>16553700You're retarded. I2 didn't enter Iberia through germanic migration, the particular I2 subclade Iberians have is very rare among germanics but extremely present in sardinian ie it's from the WHG
>>16553296>he was a GnosticNo.
>>16553709ACTUALL GERMANIC I2 subcladeIt's basically non existant outside of the val d'aran which is not even Spanish but ethnically French lol
>>16553700I've heard some wild claims about SHG I2 but never any proof on the clades. I2 was present in Celtiberians and most likely comes from them there. It's a different branch mostly. We had a thread on this a while back and one anon posted some results that showed quite a bit of U106 and I1 in some regions of Spain and from some colonial efforts of Spain, that was obviously from Germanic migrations ultimately. I didn't save any of it of course.
>>16553719>quite a bit of U106 and I1 in some regionsquite a bit like 3 or 4 dudes who had a german great grandpa? big deal
>>16553734Germanics come from Scandinavia and Frisia. Not from Germany.
>>16553744whatever you got what I meant
>>16553296What culture did the Lombards bring? They numbered 60,000
>>16554056All I know for certain is the etymology of some words that goes back to Lombards more typically rather than Goths or other Germanics. I'm no expert on other alleged influences.
>>16552967What about Burgundy and Alamannia? What impact did they leave?
>>16555189From one explaination I've heard (German Source: https://youtu.be/q0oJDeHOxv8?si=e7fxpiwwwDtHML2C&t=868 ) that the Burgundians came in small numbers (outnumberd 10:1 by the roman population) and that they were already romanized and christian, so they didn't have a stark cultural gap like the Almannians who were still pagan. So the Burgundians got absorbed by the larger roman population, they left little linguistical traces in law codes and village and city names. The Alamannians on the other hand never really associated with the urban romans and settled in the rural regions. When plagues ravaged the cities the romance speakers died away and Almannians moved in. The left-over celtic romanized people then adopted the germanic language of the new cultural majority. They would become the later german-swiss population which is 65% of the whole population of Switzerland. And because mountains seem to naturally create linguistical variety their language mutated into many "dialects", or rather many different languages/para-languages that get clumped together as "Swiss German" eventhough nobody could understand eachother if it weren't for the existence of Standard High German (Hochdeutsch). The first one I can still understand somehow as a German speaker from Germany, the second one is High Alemmanic and it's completely incomprehensible. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fkwbn0HwqOkhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rgGQkXJHlQ>While the French-speaking Swiss prefer to call themselves Romands and their part of the country la Romandie, the German-speaking Swiss used to refer to (and, colloquially, still do) the French-speaking Swiss as "Welsche", and to their area as Welschland, which has the same etymology as the English Welsh (see Walha). In Germany Welsch and Welschland refer to Italy; there, the term is antiquated, rarely used, and somewhat disparaging. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German-speaking_Switzerland
>>16552967So the tribes that populated England came there from Denmark?
>>16553096>It's a shame they abandoned their ways and got soft in Iberia.Their biggest fault is the infighting. Had they created a stable monarchy with quality institutions, they would've probably defeated he arabs, the the country's history would've been completely different.
>>16552967Anglo-Saxons were dogshit irrelevant, the dominant tribes were the Goths and the Franks at the time.
>>16554056Among the germanic borrowed words in italian, Lombard is by far the biggest source.
>>16553096>No one among the Germanic tribes achieved as much in a military senseVandals>>16553489The Alemanni were destroyed as a political entity in the 8th century and integrated into the Frankish system completely and stopped existing as an independent people by the 10th.
>>16555528>they would've probably defeated he arabsDelusional>>16555528>then the country's history would've been completely different.Yup, no explorers, no Tercios, no empire, no El Cid, no Velazquez, no Cervantes, nothing.
>>16553589True, Spain has a lot of high quality genetics, some even aryan. >where do you think these people got their very germanic appareance? from the celts?To be fair, weren't the celts very closely related to the germanics?
>>16555636You were civilised by the phoenicians, civilised by the romans, and then civilised by the moors. Sit down. Be humble
>>16555696Romans were Spaniards (or the other way around, anyway you like it) Phoenician and Moors were agent of destruction and foreign invaders.You're a seething animal from an irrelevant shithole.>>16555693La Tene Celts were southern European.
>>16555699>Romans were Spaniards No, they weren't. Spaniards are - at best - the descendants of their Iberian rapebabies
>>16553725>results that showed quite a bit of U106 and I1 in some regions of SpainIt must be very little of it there.
>>16555701Spaniards are unarguably the closest population to ancient romans. If Spaniards aren't Romans then English aren't Anglo-Saxons, Czech aren't Slavs etc.
>>16555705No one qualifies the English as Anglo-Saxons or the Czechs as Slavs based on haplotism lol
>>16555714They do based on linguistic, culture and genetics and Spaniards check all three boxes for Roman ;)
>>16555636>Yup, no explorers, no Tercios, no empire, no El Cid, no Velazquez, no Cervantes, nothing.Mostly no centuries-long economic stagnation. Spain lagged behind other European countries since the XVI century.
>>16555721>linguistic
>>16555696>You were civilised by the phoenicians, civilised by the romansThe Basques never experienced this "civilizationation", and they are the most successful ones in Spain. >highest GDP per capita>highest wages>highest HDI Fact of the matter is that they were able to achieve this BECAUSE of their isolation. The conquest of Iberia by the Roman Empire caused a lot of Eastern Mediterraneans, mostly from the middle east, to settle Iberia, contaminating the genepool.
>>16555735>iberians wuz romans an shit, spanish be a romance language an shit>the best iberians are basque an shit, they don't be speaking no honkey-ass romance language dawgwhich is it paco
>>16555705>Spaniards are unarguably the closest population to ancient romans.True. The Romans before slave immigration from the east cluster the closest with modern Spaniards. Only after the widespread mixing with slaves and non-slaves from the near east, the Romans started resembling genetically the Greeks.
>>16555739Both. You inbred schizo cunt.
>>16555746>cuntIs that an offensive term in spanix? Oh boy, I'm not replying to a mentally ill diasporoid building his personality around a 23andme test am I
>>16555729GDP from a historical perspective is worthless.also I don't see how this has to do with the goths. The Goth kingdom isn't particularly rich.>>16555735It's not like Basques have constantly been the richest in Spain for the last 2 thousand years.>>16555739He isn't Spanish, he's some autist obsessed about Spain just like you.
>>16555751>The Goth kingdom isn't particularly richwasn't*
>>16553589The genetic map is also clearly bullshit because we even see clusters of germanic descent even in North Africa after the Vandals invaded. Not much, but there is a tiny percentage
>>16555751>you are spain-obsessed if you respond or engage in the spanix shitposters that make it their duty to derail threads with their haploshitcope
>>16555754And the Basques never received the influence of the Goths too btw, so you are contradicting yourself.
>>16555761Unironically yes. This board is my playground.
>>16553489the best germans are the least germanic ones (southern)
>>16555910Unironically this. Swiss are closer genetically to southern europeans than to Scandinavians and they're the most successful one.
>>16555915holy shit it's real
>>16555522I think most of them were continental Germans.
>>16555751>It's not like Basques have constantly been the richest in Spain for the last 2 thousand years.The fact that they are nowadays prooves the point, because we have globalization and the capital can move wherever it can grow the best.
>>16555910>the best germans are the least germanic ones (southern)Seems like it:
>>16553096>While they ultimately had a massive impact, the Franks got put the the ringer more than a few times when Western Rome still existed.The only groups who never got put through the ringer are those who accomplished too little to be recorded beyond one evanescent victory.
>>16556027>because we have globalization and the capital can move wherever it can grow the best.stupid argument. Take the Basque and settle them all in the southernmost corner of spain and they won't be the wealthiest anymore
>>16555693Celts in Spain probably looked like this: brunetes with western euro faces. So, at least for Spain celts were just natives with no germanic appaerence and no semitic appareance.
>>16555729>Spain lagged behind other European countries since the XVI centuryPer your own source:> At the time of its imperial expansion Spain was a relatively affluent nation and, by 1590, was only behind the Low Countries and Italy in terms of per capita income. If Spain was lagging behind what can be said of the other countries!>>16556130Nobody in Spain has a semitic or germanic appearance because nobody in spain is semitic or germanic
>>16556072>stupid argument. Take the Basque and settle them all in the southernmost corner of spain and they won't be the wealthiest anymoreThey might be even wealthier, because they could develop a thriving tourist industry, due to the better weather.
>>16556130>celts were just natives with no germanic appaerenceAnd what's the difference between celts and germanics in appearance?>>16556135I phrased it wrong. What I meant is that they didn't experience the same growth in later centuries as other countries, that's what the graph shows. >nobody in spain is semitic or germanicNoone? 0%?
>>16552967Wish we knew more about the Gepids
We should rangeban Spain.
>>16556784>because they could develop a thriving tourist industrySpain is already the second most visited country in the world after France and the south of Spain does have one of the most thriving tourist industry that exist. Are you even trying?>>16557223Kek mods know full well this would have no effect as I'm not posting from Spain. The region I'm posting from was rangeban from making threads once or twice but I don't know if it's due to me or not.
>>16553709>>16553719So, if I had an I2 Iberian Y-haplo that correlates with Scottish and Irish branches, does that mean we wuz Germans and shit?I always assumed it was pre-IE, Megalithic peoples who were mixed between WHG's and EEF's.
>>16557361>So, if I had an I2 Iberian Y-haplo that correlates with Scottish and Irish branches, does that mean we wuz Germans and shit?not necessarily no.
>>16557223The mods encourage antiberian derangement. They are trying to kill the board.
>>16557444based mods
>>16557361Some even came from Normans and Vikangz
>>16557606Wrong. I2 is a whg haplo that has been there since forever.
>>16556033It's as if I can hear some fat red faced Bavarian chortling when he was making that HDI chart. Not German btw.
>>16557615No, just the Mesolithic. And different clades exist simultaneously anon. Some came from Germanic and Norman migrations. Guiscard and his descendants were/are I2
>>16557643Iberian I2 doesn't come from Germanic population. What are you trying, monkey?
>>16557653He was talking about similar clades with Irish and Scottish branches of I2. I was saying it could have come from basically any migration into the isles. Pretty fucking straightforward for non-retards.
>>16552967What impact did the Vandals have? To this day I still think it's very interesting that North Africa had their own Germanic tribe
>>16557676Some papers are coming out about that soon (two more weeks)
>>16557674These clades are non existent and yes it might come from Britiish immigration has a number of breton immigrated in Galicia after the anglo invasion
>>16557685almost non existent*So basically you're retarded for discussing something that is so evident to begin with. You're probably one of these anti-spain troll schizo.
>>16557685Learn to write in fucking coherent English you retarded ethnonarcissist faggot.
