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/lit/ is for the discussion of literature, specifically books (fiction & non-fiction), short stories, poetry, creative writing, etc. If you want to discuss history, religion, or the humanities, go to /his/. If you want to discuss politics, go to /pol/. Philosophical discussion can go on either /lit/ or /his/, but ideally those discussions of philosophy that take place on /lit/ should be based around specific philosophical works to which posters can refer.

Check the wiki, the catalog, and the archive before asking for advice or recommendations, and please refrain from starting new threads for questions that can be answered by a search engine.

/lit/ is a slow board! Please take the time to read what others have written, and try to make thoughtful, well-written posts of your own. Bump replies are not necessary.

Looking for books online? Check here:
Guide to #bookz
https://www.geocities.ws/prissy_90/Media/Texts/BookzHelp19kb.htm
Bookzz
http://b-ok.org/
Recommended Literature
http://4chanlit.wikia.com/wiki/Recommended_Reading

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ahahahahahaah

haahahahaha
haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

hahaha

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Any thoughts on this book?
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>>9915422
It's brilliant and better than most things lit likes, rewarding challenging puzzling and fun, so quit talking about it or it'll become a meme

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Time to read, school starting soon
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>>9914944
But white men are evil anon
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>>9915278
i've been to purdue. pretty decent barbecue and a fun little college town. i imagine there is lots of drinking?
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>>9915382
The bar scene was cool, and pretty popular. There was something for everyone, from the "dive bar, friendly, sing along with strangers to music from 1970-1998" Harry's to "dance with sloppy drunken midwestern sloots who just left their horse's stable for the first time in 3 years Where Else and Neon Cactus (where you could fill your 32 oz cactus cup with a long island that would make the Andre the Giant slur his words, for 3 bucks).
They need to get rid of the ginkgo trees so campus doesn't smell like shit 1/3 of the academic year though.
>>
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Fancy logos are overrated,

Creative Technology btw

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Should high art be involved with society or be completely detached from it?
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>>9915402
>>
>>9915402

>>9914902
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Why are Mediterranean girls so hot? Is it the slight hint of Saracen rapist ancestry?
>>
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>>9915402
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>>9915354
Not the same anon, but whatever skill Picasso had is overshadowed by the fact that he was a conartist.

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>try to beat depression
>still dont see meaning in anything
>pills make me feel like a robot
>start smoking weed again
>tfw no gf

For what I've read here, IJ by DFW (pic related) explores themes related to my situation
Should I waste my money on it? Will I find some light?
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>>9915319
Woah anti-depressants debunked
Kys
>>
>>9915327

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4172306/
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>>9914254
this is a really bad meme.
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>>9915300
how could a man with boots like these demap his whole map?
>>
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Anybody interested in some sort of an IRC or chat group or whatever for /lit/izens (and aspiring /lit/izens) who are really depressed? I have almost nobody to talk to and have many of the same problems as OP. Suicidal thoughts, useless ssris, wasting time with weed, >nogf, isolation and all that jazz.
It’s nice to empathize with /r9k/ sometimes, but most of them are really really dumb and not interested in self-improvement or education.

What's your view on the professionalization of the humanities, like literature, philosophy, creative writing and so on?
Has it benefited said disciplines or not?
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>>9915367
Oh, ok.
What if I'm an autistic female?
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>>9915367
>“Books,” she cried, rising to her feet and speaking with an intensity of desolation which I shall never forget, “are for the most part unutterably bad!”
Of course we cried out that Shakespeare wrote books, and Milton and Shelley.
“Oh, yes,” she interrupted us. “You’ve been well taught, I can see. But you are not members of the London Library.” Here her sobs broke forth anew. At length, recovering a little, she opened one of the pile of books which she always carried about with her —“From a Window” or “In a Garden,” or some such name as that it was called, and it was written by a man called Benton or Henson, or something of that kind. She read the first few pages. We listened in silence. “But that’s not a book,” someone said. So she chose another. This time it was a history, but I have forgotten the writer’s name. Our trepidation increased as she went on. Not a word of it seemed to be true, and the style in which it was written was execrable.
“Poetry! Poetry!” we cried, impatiently.
“Read us poetry!” I cannot describe the desolation which fell upon us as she opened a little volume and mouthed out the verbose, sentimental foolery which it contained.
“It must have been written by a woman,” one of us urged.
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>>9915320
>ywn father a host of quadroon abominations with this dusky jewel destined to plague the world and above all themselves with their liminality
feels bad man
jdimsa
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>>9915378
Then you're stupid and retarded
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>>9915417
You'd find it easier to get a girlfriend if you weren't so cruel

Does anyone have the video of drunk man yelling DFW out of car? Much appreciated if you guys can post it. By the way, this subreddit has gone done in quality a lot in the past couple of years.
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>>9913207
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqYV-GLnxQU
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>>9913235
Thank you.
>>
Need the picture of DFW when he's holding a cigarette and I think sitting in a car.
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>>9913235

DELETE THIS
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>>9913235
is this a sketch?

So pataphysics is a meme, right?
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>>9915002
> Notable members have included Noël Arnaud, Jean-Christophe Averty, Luc Étienne, Latis, François Le Lionnais, Jean Lescure, Raymond Queneau, Boris Vian, Eugène Ionesco, Jacques Carelman, Joan Miró, Man Ray, Max Ernst, Julien Torma, Roger Shattuck, Groucho, Chico and Harpo Marx, Baron Jean Mollet, Philippe de Chérisey, Irénée Louis Sandomir, Opach, Marcel Duchamp, Fernando Arrabal and Gavin Bryars.

> The philosopher Jean Baudrillard is often described as a pataphysician and identified as such for some part of his life.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVOR8AJc6No
Not just a meme... THE MEME.
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Nobody takes this kind of shit seriously but people involved in theater - the worst kind of degenerate. Theater is a playground for demented frenchmen.
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>>9915390
>spelling in American
Think you lost this round, buddy.
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>>9915002

yep. functional equivalent is Discordianism.
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>>9915100
Imaginary solutions.
>'pataphysics
Andrew Hugill's
'Pataphysics
A Useless Guide (MIT Press)
is a good enough introduction.

What are the best books about sexuality and eroticism? I have grown to feel that sexuality is almost 100% a terrible thing. My sexual thoughts and fantasies are almost all about dominating someone, and it seems like the more fucked up and twisted the domination, the more I am drawn to it (to a certain point). I can't see sexual thoughts to be anything other than evil, at least for myself. But I know that this may not be the case for everyone. Some of the great artists are able to portray sexuality in aesthetic, beautiful ways. So I've been wondering: what is it that changes and creates our sense of sexuality, what makes it more twisted or evil, and is it possible to manipulate these sensibilities yourself? Is sexuality inherently evil or only evil in certain cases? and what is it that makes it morally acceptable or not? Is intercourse a beautiful act, or a disgusting one? Books that explore these type of questions would be ideal.
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>>9915135
the rejection problem is that it's much like Nietzsche's self-despisers: they all think they're the best self-despiser.

I'm saying, rejection, especially the kind that ends the relationship in a way she'd never end it with someone else, is his equivalent of seeing the smiling face of God hand out all your new favours at the end of Job. The kind of rejection he caused her to perform is so extreme it's nowhere near the ambiguous grace of "She called me Gregor" or "She left me for a prince". Anyone can do that for you. But if you're special, you can get them to leave the fucking country over you. Even though they're in a different country, they're there because of you. Even though they're with their new beau, they probably chose him as a further rejection. He can prove he was really despised, and he has a witness/accomplice/victimizer who will back him up he might have been better off drowning.

For me, it's strange to use martyr in a pagan/psychological sense and maintain some specific Christian meaning.

I read a lot of different shit, so it's kind of broad to choose from. Though since you bring up Japanese, I suppose the idea of transforming yourself into a ghost out of jealousy from Tale of the Genji I would count as a kind of martyrdom. I really think you have this Christian definition, which, even when you take the rejection problem out of it with the God's grace after the devil's tests being like Wanda's rejection proposition, isn't particularly mystic. That's why I'm saying it's like sirens and mermaids, and they don't necessarily have to be there or more than a mannequin for you to love and die for them in the narrative. You just need to dedicate yourself to them, not have them make the same contribution back.

Also, I find it hard to fathom that God did actually approve all extant martyrs if you do want to argue that as a hardline definition. It's been a while since anyone's heard from him, to be fair.
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>>9915189
I think I finally understand your view of the rejection problem. I just have one rather banal objection to it. If this is how Severin truly sees himself, why doesn't he describe the final scene as his triumph? Your theory needs Severin to maintain his reaction to the thought experiment (I even quoted that bit) in the face of reality. But the opposite happens: suffering the brutalities of the Greek his fantasy shatters. How do you reconcile that with the need for rejection, be it conscious or subconscious?

I never meant to link paganism to anything related to Severin's conception of love or my view of a BDSM relationship.

What is missing in the encounter with a siren is the ritualistic act or its equivalent, the contract. You might get to suffer but there is no sense of purpose. I should probably have said that the interpretation of the martyr metaphor is my own. Now that i skimmed the text I find no hint that Sacher-Masoch also included the element of grace. All I find here is the act of finding pleasure in suffering.
Including grace in the metaphor seems necessary to me in order to separate the ideal dominant woman from the other two archetypes: One has to be able to separate the final scene from the other ordeals during which Severin definitely enjoys his suffering. Of course Severin still fulfills his role as a slave and he is met with physical suffering. So the defining difference cannot lie with him but has to be on the part of Wanda. By introducing the Greek she technically has not done anything wrong since she moves within the boundaries of the contract, but that's just the case because Severin was too deluded when it comes to his own wishes. In fact, Wanda has removed herself irrevocably from Severin. Who would adore a God who punishes without purpose or reward? Consider now Tanizaki's Naomi. Naomi is openly promiscuous, but even though "George" doesn't seem to mind, I feel the need to distinguish this kind of relationship from the one Severin enjoys. Once again, you said it, only the worthy should suffer in the ideal case.
>>
>>9915301
>rejection problem
I don't think it's a conscious thing. If it were, people would probably have a lot less (or perhaps a lot more) abusive relationships. A maledom version of that exists in Gordon by Louise Walbrook/Edith Templeton. I should clarify by satisfaction, I mean a resolution of the relationship.

So when I say if she told him she fucked a prince, he would have been satisfied, I don't mean it would have satisfied his need for special rejection, but just his need for rejection. He probably wouldn't reminisce about her for years, and she wouldn't be a Venus to him and she wouldn't be wondering if she were cruel, because it's a reasonably normal rejection. It can't be elevated or satisfied like the total rejection he gets. She becomes Venus because she satisfies the total personification of rejection, and so he spends his life with her as the archetype. For me, signing the contract doesn't make her that. She could be just another initiate and not the high priestess.

In Gordon, it's proposed that once he's done everything he wants to do with the submissive author/narrator, that the eponymous dom has nothing much left to live for, all his desires being sated. The author has her own problems with reliability but she's familiar enough with both Freud and Schopenhauer to be using the idea of a satisfied relationship in a similar way: one in which the desire has been realized and therefore gone away.

It also covers the idea of being worthy from a submissive stand point. The narrator is far more patrician than the dominant, but what makes her worthy in terms of the relationship is that she's simply willing to put up with the occasional rape or voyeurism. What makes the dominant not need another one of her is that she's accepting enough that she'll put up with all his shit; it's basically the opposite of the satisfaction that Severin seeks from Wanda, which is someone who is able to reject him viciously enough that nobody would put up with that shit.

It's a very explicitly Freudian book, outside the DDLG aspect, so you'd probably enjoy its reframing at the end.
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>>9914631

>mfw even if I would ever get to have sex I would probably be so bad at it that I would never try to have it again
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>>9915388
>She becomes Venus because she satisfies the total personification of rejection
Do you mean that she becomes his ideal after demonstrating cruelty that exceeds his capacities by handing him over to the Greek? You can only argue that this is the case if you accept his desire for total rejection which I find to stand in contrast to his reaction to the catastrophe of the final scene.
Your example seems quite instructive, maybe I'll read Gordon next, I'm sure it can deepen my understanding of your thoughts and mine as well.
Anyway, I'm off to bed. It's been fun, so thank you and have a good night.

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>tfw 108 iq brainlet, should i kill myself? No philosophy, no computer science for me as i will drop out eventually. Highest i could hope is being welder, but factory is loud and stinks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rl7_pwO7R0w
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>>9914530
is there chance to follow both branches and yet find time for javascript??
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>>9915255
you'll be mediocre at all of them
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>>9911753
This is what I am afraid of and I am not really a genius.
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>>9912513
You'll be surprised when you realized who are the ones buying genre fiction.
>>
>finally take a legitimate iq test
>score within the top 0.01% in regards to spatial intelligence.
>iterally just stay home all day absorbing media, creating nothing.

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>going on a date with a girl
>we're hitting it off really well which is unusual for me
>the conversation turns to theater
>I mention that my favorite play is Midsummer Night's Dream because I really like Shakespeare's take on ancient Greece
>"Anon, you don't actually believe Shakespeare wrote all those plays, do you?"
>mfw

What do I do, lads? Should I try to set her straight or is it a lost cause, like arguing with a flat earther or anti-vaxxer?
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>>9915356
This.

Silly /lit/.

Everyone knows that Shakespeare was an illegal black (Shake Spear) transexual pansexual who converted to Judaism, despite the Edict of Expulsion.

Now tear that statue down!
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>>9915369

>You're not going anywhere with her if you're not honest about your opinions.

Anon, I haven't had sex in three years. I'm not going to blow it by telling her that I think she's an insane retard.

>>9915358

I didn't really press the issue but the way she said it made it sound like she didn't think one person could write so many plays, so I think she believes it may have been, like, a cabal of several prominent writers who were releasing plays under a shared alias for some weird reason.
>>
the answer is "not cymbeline" and then you take her home to listen to pink floyd.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZM5iopSs_rI
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>>9915341
anon it's ok if you disagree with the person you are fucking. do you really want to be around a person who agrees with you all the time? how would that challenge you, invigorate you, or excite you? granted being in a relationship with someone you despise isn't so good either but to date your intellectual twin is just emotional masturbation.
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>>9915405
If a girl is really sexually attracted to you, you can make off-colour racist remarks and she will still want to fuck you. Time to start pumping iron and get to a low body fat percentage and say whatever the fuck you want

However in the short term, just play it cool. Say something casual like, "whoever wrote them, I love the style" or whatever.

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hey /lit/
how to git gud at reading
i have only read 10 books in my lifetime mostly generic gothic literature and local literature

> inb4 start from greeks

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Ok /lit/ I've come to you in a moment of desperation . As a guy who never really had a strong father figure what books can you recommend that will teach me to be a man ?
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>>9913542
Men don't seek the solution to themselves in others.
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>>9915328
BAM
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>>9915328
>>9915387
OP is looking for lit. which might help him, fully realize and understand this truth.
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>>9913542
Just transition to a woman, retard
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>>9915305
Caesar was a psychopath tho

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ITT
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>>9913506
Muh prose.
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>>9915097
bugs...
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>>9914127
nice
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjNhTzcizb8



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