>>23982275
>God created the great light in the same sense as he created animals, it can't be that he just moved the clouds to reveal sunlight. Besides, nowhere in Genesis is the creation of the sun or moon mentioned, the greater and lesser lights are their synonyms and this is backed up by every single commentator in antiquity.
Yes, that doesn't change the point in any way. Verse 16 is parenthetical, it sets up how vv. 14-15, the setting up of lights in the firmament, were fulfilled. It's very relevant since those are the ultimate sources of the light. We get a parenthetical statement about how the celestial bodies were created (at some earlier point in time), since this fact is relevant as an offhand statement to tell the reader, and since the light coming from these celestial bodies was going to be allowed to shine in the firmament starting on the fourth day. As we see very plainly in Genesis 1:14-15, which is what you seem not to want to talk about, the light itself is explicitly what was actually set in the firmament. Of course, you left these verses out. But this is the antecedent for "they" in verse 17. This would be obvious to the reader who has read the passage in order and didn't artificially start in verse 16 for no real or apparent reason.

Trying to quote verse 16-17 of this passage while leaving out 14-15 is similar, I must say, to how in Catholicism, they will often quote Matthew 16:18 and deliberately leave out verses 16-17, where the actual antecedent for "this rock" (i.e. the object of Peter's confession) is found. Trying to leave out the real antecedent of a statement since it doesn't suit your purposes is a trick that I would hope no one would use.

>>23982188
>explanation of why the world, the universe, etc is what it is.
science doesnt give an explanation of the universe.
Atheism have turned science into a religion. You know how atheists say a bunch of deformed illiterate inbreds rolling in shit, beating their children and women anthropomorphized Nature when they said gods were an amalgamation of the base fears of early humans. Well since the day a few atheist bugmen created computers, they are saying the universe is like their high-school calculators too, but bigger lol. That's their big brain idea and that's how dumb atheists are lol.

>>23982288
I didn't quote 1.14-15 because 1.16-17 is a specification which is more relevant to the discussion. It is not in a past time; there is nothing to indicate this, nor amy change in tense. What there is is a poetic structure where on the fourth day they repeat "to divide, to shine, to rule, to rule, to shine, to divide" which fits in to the greater symmetry of seven days.

What is relevant about 1.14-1.15 is the subtle difference in "light", the light of 1.14 is light-source, מְאֹרֹת֙, the light in 1.15 is light in the greater context of "to shine light", as לִמְאוֹרֹת֙. The greater light and lesser light are within the weaker context of light, as הַמָּא֤וֹר, and so cpuldnt be prior to 1.14.

>>23975624
"Things always happen causally except this one time at the beginning of time when the universe spontaneously started to exist but it was definitely not God guys anyway protect trans kids and go vote for Kamala Harris"

>>23975655
It's a bit hard to believe in God when your religion revolves around envy and theft, I imagine.

If you like gene wolfe, try to get latro in the mist (2 books omnibus version), head of cerberus, peace, and wolfe at the door (his latest release), those are his essentials, once you like him TOTALLY, then read the rest of long sun and short stories collection. Urth is mid, it was designed to 'wrap' everything up and imo doesn't hold the same literary quality as first book of the new sun.
Also avoid his isekai story, its not that good imo

>>23982231
Thanks for the input, I am loving this book. I’m a brand new adult reader, completely hooked.

Just binged chapters 12, 13, 14, and 15. I was just thrown a major curveball and my entire place in Urth just completely changed, Severians journey seems to just have started and opened up completely. I know there is another reader in this thread now that is new to Botns just like me, so I’m going to make sure that I don’t spoil things from here on out.

But damn, I started reading this night thinking I would only read 2 chapters but ended up reading 4. Couldn’t stop, the turn of events and the immersion had me seeing everything HD and locked in like a tractor beam. I’m a newb but this Gene Wolfe has to be goated, my rating so far remains a complete 10/10.

>>23982274
Next you're gonna read Philip K. Dick, and your mind will REALLY be blown.

>>23982294
Just looked him up and added to my list, seems amazing and I’ve seen a lot of the movies I saw attributed to him. My list so far is Gene Wolfe, Cormac McCarthy, Philip K. Dick. I won’t be adding anyone else to my list for a very long time, I’m actually sticking strictly to Gene Wolfe who I think is goated until I’m done with Botns.

Spoiler alert! Severian has sex with a giant monkey named Pubarb in the third book and he becomes an annoying side character that never leaves.

If you want a complete edition of Shakespeare you have two options which I have experience with, I'm sure there are others which are decent
The first is the Norton edition
Search it up and see what the used prices are like in your country
The second is the Riverside edition
I personally think the Riverside edition is the better edition, it contains better introductions and more notes but it's not remarkably better and so don't stretch your budget for it if you can get the Norton for like $10 but the Riverside is $100 used
Based on what I know about Canterbury Classics, you're going to get a cheap 'leather' edition with no notes so I don't think you should buy it
YMMV but my Norton edition has the first half of Midsummer Night's Dream underlined and highlighted and the rest of the book is untouched and my Riverside edition is completely untouched
You could also consider getting individual Arden or Oxford editions but I'm not sure what your goal is

>>23982212
Idk what this book that is exactly but collected works of shakespeare weigh twenty pounds with tiny print, make sure to buy a set of books instead

>>23982212
A few come to mind:
The Norton Shakespeare (0393934993) has everything you need—plays, essays, footnotes, historical context—in one massive (3536 pages!) volume for $50 -
$70. It's specifically written for undergraduates, so it's very accessible if you haven't read much of his work before, but it can be patronizing at times. The newer edition is in multiple volumes if you prefer, but it's far more expensive.

Another is the Oxford Shakespeare (9780199267170) which is a little more scholarly and cheaper ($40), but puts about the same amount of text in half the pages, so it can be physically hard to read at times.

I've heard great things about the RSC edition (0230200958 ) which was commissioned by the Royal Shakespeare Company and may be better than the Oxford Edition, but I don't own a copy myself to confirm that.

If price is your concern, you can get a paperback copy of the Pelican Shakespeare for $15 for a good scholarly edition.

I personally find the Canterbury Classics series to be a little garish in design and made for consumers to display rather than for study, but to my knowledge the text there is serviceable—you might get some slightly altered versions, but it shouldn't be too much of a problem. Hope you enjoy reading!

>>23982212
There's a recent 400th anniversary facsimile of the first folio that was released in 2023 which has good reviews. It's available on Amazon and often goes on sale, too

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thanks for the replies, frens
>>23982261
>but I'm not sure what your goal is
i just want all the works in a single, readable book. it need not be heavily annotated or commentated since i don't mind going in deeper for a more heavily notated edition later if i feel driven towards deeper readings
>>23982273
>make sure to buy a set of books instead
if every collected works edition is lacking, i'll look into going this route, thanks anon
>>23982278
>you might get some slightly altered versions
what would be altered? as in shortened?
>Hope you enjoy reading!
thank you!
>>23982304
>There's a recent 400th anniversary facsimile of the first folio that was released in 2023 which has good reviews. It's available on Amazon and often goes on sale, too
i'll look into this edition too, thanks anon

>>23957654
Imagined gaze of someone else
(One less empty than myself)
Will fill these gaping sockets in
And make me whole again...
I'm nothing but a skin-deep face,
A mask that's masking empty space.

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Sneed

I'm like the king of 4chan, rich
but sterile, young but with an old wolf's itch,
one who ignores /lit/'s recommendations,
and kills the day in boredom not reading;
nothing cheers him, movies, music, games, books,
his (You)s from /tv/ bait threads;
the 1 GB tranny folder
no longer gets him through a single night;
his bed of dry semen becomes a tomb;
even the jannies of the board, for whom
all work is free, cannot withstand
his 50th off-topic post;
the redditor who gets his gold cannot invent

Comment too long. Click here to view the full text.

>>23982289
This is me, wtf

The last day
Is the most damned day
Take this from me
Take this away

>>23979974
Is this good reading? Let's get some recommendations aside from Nekkid Lunch.

>>23981457
Cities of the Red Night is a anarcho-communist fight by homosexual genre novel characters against feminist nazis. So I quite enjoyed it. The only way to prevent the spread of HIV and turning into Red Heads who ejaculate to death is heroin. This explains Scotland's heroin use.

>>23979570
>>23979649
This is the only book that has ever made me have a panic attack, it was like 30 pages in one night and I had to leave the room and lean over the sink about to collapse, so it's not all birds in my opinion, he was into the occult, I won't read a word from him again I think he may have been in allegiance with demonic entities, read Ballard instead he's a better writer anyway

>>23982296
Lol

>>23977698
BARTON FINK
BARTON FINK
BARTON FINK

it's interesting reading this. you clearly have studied epic poetry from centuries/millennia past. It's like an imitation of ancient and like Milton-era western epic poetry.

but it is kind of a slog to read and i find it clunky and uninspiring. despite the fact that you have a good, surprising way of writing. it feels like reading a forgery old poetry that is not as good as the old poetry.

It feels not urgent at all or needed in today's world. Like an ornament. Or something.

Have you tried writing poetry using the language of today, and trying to speak about things closer to your (pardon the cheesy expression) heart?

>>23982173
It sounds like you're trying too hard to imitate Milton and other ancient poets, only you try too hard and overshoot the mark.
Also, the drop lines are incredibly annoying. They work in free verse, but they don't work with iambic pentameter.
The biggest problem is you never make it clear exactly what you're talking about. You say something, but it's unelaborated, the reader doesn't know exactly what's going on, and then you say something else. It sounds like you're tossing words at random. And you use way too many metaphors and derivations.
Look at these lines.
>Before ran over from the halcyon
>That lips in love its bright profundity
>My ardent nectar, and upon the earth
>Turned in that spill to spoil, resplendent hence
>Alone with its own stupor’s seething jewels,
Nectar? What nectar? And how can nectar be ardent or passionate? It's what bees use to make honey. It doesn't have feelings. It doesn't make any sense. And why would nectar have profundity? And how can profundity be bright? How can nectar kiss its own profundity? And the nectar has stupor, and the stupor has jewels? Which are seething?
None of this makes any literal sense, which means it's a metaphor . . . for what? It's not clear what the metaphor is for. When Shakespeare uses a metaphor, it's immediately understood what the metaphor refers to. But with your poem, the reader is left confused. And you mistake this confusing effect as a sign of genius poetry, a poem too intelligent for the reader to understand.

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I loved the E Howard Conan stories. So comfy, he's great at painting you a vivid world and characters without being wordy, and I agree the main character is so cool. Howard has a great style. I remember a moment from one story that has stuck in my head for more than a decade, since i first read it:

The story starts with Conan on horseback fleeing from a bunch of city guards who are chasing after him. He reaches the pier where all the ships are docked and he's about to run out of land to flee across so he heads towards a ship that he sees is just starting to pull away and he makes the horse leap across the widening water gap and he lands in the middle of the ships deck as it takes off and the by the time the guards reach the edge of the pier the ship is too far away for their horses to jump to it and Conan gets away.

But so then now he's on his horse on the deck of a random ass ship that's setting sail and all the sailors are surrounding him with their swords out hella suspicious. The captain of the ship comes forward and asks Conan to explain himself or they're gonna kill him and throw him overboard.

Conan then calmly and matter of factly explains to them what happened: He was in town visiting a friend and they were at the tavern or whatever reminiscing and then the next day or something like that the guards of the city came and escorted Conan to the court for questioning because the authorities were looking for Conan's friend and had seen them together. The judge, surrounded by soldiers and officers tells Conan they are looking for his friend because of a theft or something and they want Conan to tell them where his friend is.

Conan understands but he tells them that the man they are seeking is his friend, and though he understands why they want to find him, his loyalty as a friend can't permit him to help them in their search. He even like apologizes for it, but that there's nothing he can do. One simply doesn't betray a friend especially a friend one owes one's life to, as is the case with this friend.

At that point the judge declared Conan guilty of obstructing justice and orders him killed. And it's at that point, Conan says in the story, that I realized all of these people were insane. So I took out my sword, leaped over the stand and split the judge's head in two, took out the guards guarding the door and high-tailed it outta there.

The sailors on the ship and their captain, who are all essentially mercenaries, are amused by the story and immediately take a liking to Conan and recruit him/accept him aboard.

And that's how that particular story starts

>>23982241
so in other words, this is a prime example of the nobility Conan embodies as a barbarian. Shows how the world of "law" and bureaucracy is the erroneous one, not Conan's. Conan is a savage but noble badass who sees through the bullshit of this world, the way an alpha child would, and he wastes no time acting according to the needs of the situation and according to what he knows to be true. I do know there are tons of novels written by other authors that expand the Conan mythos and world. But I'm sure none really compare to the greatness of Howard's writing. It is a shame he never got around to a full novel. Alas, grateful that he left us what he did write, these amazing stories

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The closest thing to Conan I've found has been the Kane novels.

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>>23981998
>He just had a fetish for masculinity.

>>23981998
IIRC his crossdresser friend said he wasn't gay in a normal sense, or as other gays understood the word. But I can't really imagine Mishima being attracted to women either. It's almost like his sexual orientation wasn't directed to any normal human form, but only a spiritualised mental picture of masculinity.

>>23982250
I guess that could make sense with the bodybuilding scene in general. Most fans at the shows don't want any sex. They just need to fulfill some ultra masculine desire vicariously.

>>23982286
Yeah but most bodybuilding fans don't get sexually aroused by it or view it as a substitute for normal sexual interactions.

>>23982290
>

>>23980145
A true /lit/izen

>>23981294
you're supposed to finish the book

>>23980145
The first 20 or so chapters of Moby Dick are a bit boring and also a little gay.

>>23980051
This is the worst example you could use, the divine comedy is super complicated, this is the only book you need in your life to reach seraphic insight

>>23980034
Poetry takes more time to get the hang of. Probably not the greatest entry point. You won’t be able to appreciate and understand a lot when you just start reading. Literature builds upon itself forward and backwards. The more you read, the more you’ll understand and be able to piece together

In the beginning the physical reading is most important. Build a habit even if it’s 10 pages a day. Don’t take any days off or at least not consecutively. Get used to physically reading and build your stamina. Every so often stop and think about what you’ve been reading

Short stories are a good starting point. For novels look for ones with short chapters

>>23970777
The king of the river and figuring out who Gryf is are good moments. Plus Penny is nice.

>>23970681
The ending will be it was all a huge mummer’s farce

>>23981868
it's going to be like in monty python and the holy grail

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EMBRACE YOUR FAITH SOLDIERS

STANNIS
WILL
WIN

>>23979289
I'm with >>23979313. Ned di not return the bodies of those fallen because they would show that death did not come from battle wounds.

>>23982310
How can that be when it‘ll always be nothing?

Any advanced maths or physics book.

>>23976598
Surprised no one mentioned Crime and Punishment yet.

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>>23977618
NPD and BPD definitely overlap quite a bit, so I'd define them a bit differently.
The first way to differentiate is by assessing behaviors as feminine or masculine.
Women usually have the BPD and men usually have the NPD and it helps to visualize the stereotypes of poorly regulated emotion in the sexes. But it can definitely cross over too, especially with gays and lesbians.
Falling into borderline psychotic states is actually more BPD, hence the name. They react disproportionately to various triggers and need to emotionally dump on others.
Whereas NPD tends to have all kinds of strategies for self-promotion or selfish ends that happen without regard for others. NPD may only lash out when they need to avoid being wrong or taking blame.
Somebody properly has such a condition if they can't moderate themselves even when the behavior is pinpointed and obviously wrong.
I do agree though that NPD does well with learning explicit principles and actually putting them into action. It's not good enough to just think or talk about them, as NPD love bullshitting in that way.
BPD are more difficult because they have trouble transferring moral understanding across contexts. They need to have group sessions that confront common behaviors in order to understand how they get triggered and make things worse for everyone.

>>23977532
>>23976598
Yeah read the upanishads or the tao, Upanishads is better in my opinion

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>>23976598
Heraclitus

>“The most beautiful ape is ugly when compared to a human. The wisest human will seem like an ape when compared to a god with respect to wisdom, beauty, and everything else.”

I wish I could attain this sort of disinterest in worldly affairs. Anything which detains us in this lesser realm only hinders us.

>>23982148
Not only does /lit/ completely suck now but it’s predictable and repetitive and, worst of all, boring and unfunny. Intelligence doesn’t seem to thrive here as well. Neither does readership. A bunch of bozos

>>23982153
Was it ever any different?

>>23982148
>cancelled
he's dead

>>23982148
You just know Pynchon's closet is bursting with Skeletons. Even more private and explicitly a bigger sexual deviant. He even had explicit hebephilia in his novels.

>>23981474
But yall, the CRINGE.

I have done things I can't take back
If I said it was just things I said
It doesn't mean I can take it back

>>23981474
It's really better to have just never done anything at all.

>>23982142
That quote sums up all of life.

>>23981446
It's not nonsensical, you're just trying to express your thoughts and you'll get clearer with more practice. You just haven't yet realised that all academic discussion is nonsensical in a certain way, the older you get and the more you are exposed to seminars the less self-conscious you will be. Words, especially broad theoretical terms that you're using, don't always have a strict definition and the way in which we use them have to be inferred from context, so I'm sure everyone understood the kind of thing you meant.
I think the primary difference between metalanguage and metanarrative is one of context, in that the first tends to be used in linguistics and logic and the second in literary and cultural theory, and in the way you're using it specifically from Lyotard. But there is distinction between the concepts, because whereas metanarratives are assumed to be the transcendental source of meaning (and thus critiqued from a postmodern perspective), metalanguages are normally conceived as merely descriptive of the operations of language. Metalanguages are another set of signifiers to describe the relationship between signifiers, while a metanarrative purports to be what is Signified. And actually thinking of metanarratives as related to the transcendental signified in this way might provide a different perspective on your notion that the postmoderns believe "one has to take from outside of the text to read into it" -- many poststructuralists believe the reverse, for as Derrida says, "il n'y a pas de hors-texte" -- to which Lacan's later rejection of metalanguage, or his earlier belief that metalanguage is embedded in language, compares. In this way, it is precisely the Death of the Author that relinquishes the burden of a transcendental signified that previously compelled us towards biographical readings and may instead allow us finally to *read the text*.
I do agree with your essential point and get what you mean when you say that there is a difference between the systematic meaning/Christian metanarrative of Dante and the loss of it in Beckett, although as with everything the binary can often be overstated (which is another point of the poststructuralists, really). Dante's Belacqua and ante-purgatory might now be seen as a premonition of the postmodern just as Beckett's Belacqua is memory of the medieval.