I don't get the practicality of these things. Piss and shit are processed in the thigh pads – okay, but you're telling me the Fremen are shitting and pissing in these things while walking around in 45°C heat in the fucking desert? Give me a break. Imagine the rashes.
>b-but they're uncomfy!This is why they effortlessly genocided half the galaxy once they were given access to spaceships
>>24889136turn off all the water supply valves in your house, and wait 48 hours. then get back to us, harkonnen scum.
>>24889145>>24889148can't wait for the Dune 2 filmt
>>24889136If you recycle water well enough you don’t need to drink it. Just eating plants would give you the amount needed to live. Here’s a rat that does just that. Some carnivores like cats get most of their water intake from eating as well, this is why housecats get bladder issues because they don’t get enough wet food and won’t drink much from water sources. Obviously sci fi tech approaches magic as the quote goes but the principle is sound. As long as you shat from the rectum into whatever tube takes out the water there’s no risk of sepsis from skin contact. A worse version of this system on the macro level already exists on the space station today.
>>24889136 >>24889145>>24889467The recirculation thing is technically not impossible in of itself, although purifying the water to the point of it becoming drinkable again is so energy intensive that it would be impossible for a stillsuit to do so in a reasonable timeframe without a strong power source. The real problem with stillsuits is that if you prevent water evaporation, you also prevent body temperature control. It's fundamentally impossible for a stillsuit as described in the book to function without cooking it's wearer. The only way it could work is by having multiple active heat circuits like a spacesuit. And in the book it explicitly doesn't.>"the water does evaporate but the suit recaptures it"That precisely traps heat in the suit, no ifs and buts about it. And without evaporation the only way the suit itself can dispose of heat are contact with air or by heat radiation. The former can't work without expending a ton of energy as the air on Arrakis is permanently hotter than human body. The latter can't work without expending even more energy as it is impossible for matter to passively radiate even a human body's worth of heat from a suit's available open surface at human body's temperature in reasonable time, and that's without considering that in daytime out of shade the suit constantly receives orders of magnitude more heat radiation from the Arrakis sun than it can radiate itself.>"the energy source is the movement of the wearer"Obviously but1. It's nowhere fucking near enough even if we direct 100% of the wearer's muscle power towards active circulation to make cooling possible, and it's supposed to be just "waste movement".2. There is no such thing as "usable waste movement". If you power the suit's mechanisms via the wearer's movement, said movement gets harder for the wearer and requires more energy, no ifs or buts, even if it's the movement that accompanies locomotion but is unnecessary for locomotion, you either restrict that movement or you make the wearer continue with more energy required for it. In either case the wearer gets this energy from muscular activity which generates heat which requires cooling which requires energy which requires muscular activity which requires cooling which requires energy which requires muscular activity which requires cooling.tl;dr stillsuits as described in the book fundamentally can't work because thermodynamics. Taking in colder liquid water and losing warm evaporating water into the atmosphere is the way human body cools itself. If that doesn't happen then the human body doesn't get cooled. The only way it could work is with extremely inefficient and energy-intensive processes actively powered with sci-fi super-powerful and compact energy sources, but that defeats the whole aesthetic of "simple, minimal, practical apparel that is the epitome expression of Fremen self-sufficiency".
>>24889599>prevent body temperature controlAccording to dune encyclopedia it uses ammonia separated from urine as a refrigerant, with pumps in the shoes to provide air pressure along with multiple thin fabric layers to provide insulation
>>24889599> it would be impossible for a stillsuit to do so in a reasonable timeframe without a strong power source.Quite obviously the human body is the power source. You didn’t show us how you calculated this would be impossible, so I’ll show my math. Humans need about 4 liters of water per day. Current desalination plants can clean 4 liters (at admittedly massive scale) at about 10 watt hours. An average person doing manual labor can produce 75 watts in an hour. It doesn’t take much fantastical suspension of disbelief to say a stillsuit is a very reasonable piece of technology. As for thermodynamics, you didn’t really provide anything to argue against, most of that was pure nonsense.
Boml
I don't think it says anywhere that Arrakis is hot? Could be an at times cold desert.
>>24890854>Current desalination plants...produce drinkable water out of seawater, not urine, and as you pointed out they do it at tremendous scale.>An average person doing manual labor can produce 75 watts in an hour.I've already been over the loop of stillsuit being the power drain on the body leading to more heat production requiring more cooling.
>>24890636>This sudden release (into a holding chamber in the suit's hood) cooled the air by the Joule-Thompson effect>the cooled air was drawn back into the systemWhy are they like this?
>>24889136PROCEEEEEED THE WEEDIAN NAZARETH
>>24892704We know that the surface of Arrakis is canonically extremely hot all over in daylight and still pretty hot at night, but it gets really cool at minimal depth below the rock and sand.
>>24889136It's sci fantasy. Did the magic prescience powers not give it away?>>24889145This is another example. How surviving in the desert automatically makes you a supersoldier is anyone's guess. At the end of Dune Prophet the sardaukar attack the sietch with Alia and they're beaten back by women and children, it's ridiculous.
>>24894187WE WUZ SAND NINJAS N SHIET
>>24894187>How surviving in the desert automatically makes you a supersoldier is anyone's guess. The idea is not that it's the desert survival skills that made Fremen so much stronger than anyone else, but rather their martial-survival culture that fully unites everyone towards a sacred cause making everyone constantly ready and willing to give his everything up to and including his life, or take anyone's life, if the circumstances demand it. And that 's perceived by them as something so natural that they are perplexed by the water-fat outsiders not acting similarly. Meanwhile their opponents, particularly Sardaukar, are said to be decadent, disunited, soft, coddled, unwilling to take risks and make sacrifices, driven exclusively by petty interests. The desert is just the factor that made Fremen culture the way it is, with the text explicitly stating that Sardaukar themselves used to be similar, back when their prowess made the Golden Lion Throne, and before that very throne and it's power made them complacent over centuries and weak by removing any desert-like adversity from their everyday existence. The text also spells out that Fremen themselves grow soft and weak as Arrakis gets terraformed and life there stops being a constant struggle for survival. The whole thing basically says>bad place create strong men >strong man make place good>good place creates weak men>weak men make place badWhich is a simple and believable enough narrative for a fictional story.
>>24894304That's well and good, and it might indeed make them better fighters, but the degree to which it does is incredible. Harsh conditions toughen you up, they don't turn just about every person in your society into a mini Achilles. You don't see Inuit children casually beating up Army Rangers three at a time.
>>24894187>How surviving in the desert automatically makes you a supersoldierIt's just the old british martial races theory. >Nepal is mostly a mountainous shithole that's difficult to survive in, and they've adapted for generations. >Therefore they're naturally 5x better fighters than the average indian farmer, so we should recruit themObviously it's delusional but it sometimes became a self fulfilling prophecy>sardaukar attack the sietch with AliaTbf the fremen also probably had access to weird space magic by that point anyway
>>24894374The fremen also consume as basically their primary food source the wonder substance that does everything, which improves basically everything by the body and is rare everywhere else. Sardaukar do eat spice as well but even they lack the resources to eat as much as the Fremen do. All fremen have hyper-senses, and therefore probably enhanced reflexes, along with being in better physical condition than pretty much anyone, simply from their unmatched access to spice.
>>24895143This makes more sense, but it creates another problem: if the fremen just have totally superhuman reflexes due to spice consumption and are vastly outperforming even the sardaukar mostly on the basis of sheer physicality, how do they lose one on one confrontations like Paul vs Jamis, where the latter is not only someone who grew up on a spice diet vs someone who did not, but is also a grown man, with a reputation as a strong fighter among the fremen, and fighting against a fifteen year old described as small for his age (who has the added disadvantages of being trained with shields while Jamis is not, and not being willing to kill at first)? Paul not only wins but dominates Jamis completely, which the story justifies with his superior training under Gurney and Duncan, but if the enormous gap in physical ability between the two can be made up for by that training, the sardaukar, also being extensively trained and having far less of a physical gap due to not being small boys, really shouldn't be too badly outmatched. Yet they lose to fremen women and children.Stilgar also loses to Jessica, but whatever, this is already autistic and long-winded enough.
>>24895355>Paul vs JamisPaul is a member of the aristocratic elite whose the result of a 10,000 year breeding program, knows bene gesserit space magic, is a mentat, can see into the future, and has been trained one-on-one by the greatest living swordsmen his entire life while having no other responsibilities. It doesn't make much sense to compare the Chosen One to Some Guy with a job and 2 kids>sardaukar, also being extensively trainedA plot point in the books is that sarduakar aren't. They're still superior to the average army, but millennia of unquestioned supremacy has led to them becoming complacent and poorly trained. They're shadows of their former selves. Also according to dune encyclopedia >Beyond what appears to be the military superiority of the Fedaykin, they had one further advantage over the Sardaukar. While the Sardaukar were warriors who, through a vicious upbringing, had instilled cruelty and pride into their very being, the Fremen were Fedaykin because of their extreme faith in Paul Muad'Dib>Stilgar also loses to JessicaBecause she has space magic. The bene gesserit have spent millennia hiding how OP they are lest they get nuked into oblivion by everyone else>Yet they lose to fremen women and childrenFremen culture is patriarchal but foids are still expected to be able to fight, chani kills a fremen rival for paul
>>24895143Hadn't Jessica taught the Fremen her secret magic space kung fu by the point in the story where the raid on the sietch happens? The Fremen women and children were probably given basic space kung fu training as well.
>>24895652Yes. This is the reason Stilgar sponsors her.
