This board is dedicated to the discussion of history and the other humanities such as philosophy, religion, law, classical artwork, archeology, anthropology, ancient languages, etc. Please use /lit/ for discussions of literature. Threads should be about specific topics, and the creation of "general" threads is discouraged.For the purpose of determining what is history, please do not start threads about events taking place less than 25 years ago. Historical discussions should be focused on past events, and not their contemporary consequences. Discussion of modern politics, current events, popular culture, or other non-historical topics should be posted elsewhere. General discussions about international culture should go on /int/./his/ is not /pol/, and Global Rule #3 is in effect. Do not try to treat this board as /pol/ with dates. Blatant racism and trolling will not be tolerated, and a high level of discourse is expected. History can be examined from many different conflicting viewpoints; please treat other posters with respect and address the content of their post instead of attacking their character.When discussing history, please reference credible source material, and provide as much supporting information as possible in your posts.
They're just bronoids trying to appropriate the achievements and appearance of white people.
>>18685534Iberians are brown from getting raped by moors for 800 years doebeit
>>18685645>t.ADN-Y R1b mtDNA A2
>>18685672R is originally an ancient Asian haplogroup that was raped onto EuropeansYou're brown and have moor admixture
>>18685693Moor is an exonym, shitskin
>>18685693There was a thread on r/phenotype where someone posted a photo of that dude and passed it off as if it were them and asked people to guess where they were from and what their ancestry was. Everyone guessed puerto rican or dominican with significant native admixture. They then did a follow up post revealing it was a Spanish streamer and everyone was in disbelief.
would anyone like to discuss Latin American history spanning from the Chalcolithic to post-classical eras? help me out here, I want to learn
>slop image
>>18684652yeahstill want to discuss, though
Don't call them Latin brobut yesIn some ways it's incredibly depressing how sophisticated the Incas and Aztecs were, empires like these were unprecedented in their areas. You really have to wonder what would have happened with them if Europeans and smallpox hadn't showed up to ruin everything.Also, are the Muisca worth researching?
>Muslims preserved Greek literature and passed it on to EuropeansI hate this myth so much. The Greeks never stopped existing, and never stopped studying Aristotle and Plato through the Middle Ages, and when Constantinople fell to the Ottomans in the 15th century, many Greek scholars fled to Italy, bringing their books with them. Europe to Europe transmission. (In fact, the first Greek printing presses were in the 15th century in Italy, because there was demand for Greek texts in their original language, but the Venetians also controlled a lot of Greece at the time).Let alone that that it’s also vastly exaggerated how much of this was forgotten in Italy and western Europe, or Russia/Ukraine. The idea that that the Muslim world preserved the Greco-Roman texts while Europeans forgot it, is just completely false, but it’s feel-good pseudohistory.That’s not to say that the Muslim world didn’t study Greek philosophy for themselves. They absolutely did, particularly in the 9th-11th centuries. But there was also resistance to it, and did not influence Islamic theology much.
>>18685491Most medieval quack medicine was actually GreekBloodletting for example comes from Galen's theory of humors
>>18685505I think Gemistos Plethon argued that Plato was better than Aristotle
>>18684663> But there was also resistance to itTrue>did not influence Islamic theology muchUtterly laughable statement
>>18685510the first usage of "Europe" was to delineate between Greece and Asia and Africa. Europe was Greece + all the lands to its north and west, Asia was Asia Minor + all the lands to its east, Africa was Libya and Egypt + all the lands to its south.
>>18685505>point of these Greek texts ending up in Western and Southern Europe again was that many of them challenged the medieval philosophies which were heavily based on Aristotle.interesting i never knew that
The common trope is that conflicts regarding race, women, trangenderism etc. are distractions from the class war and are part of the fake culture war.Really, it is actually the opposite. This imaginary class war is always invoked in order to shut down discussion and minimise various issues. This is seen by the bad faith with which they refuse to abandon their side of the given "culture war" conflict, which they profess is fake.How does, for instance, the idea of reparations in America not represent a genuine racial conflict of interests. Supposing classes exist, there will always be conflict between and within them on the basis of religion, race and sex.
>>18685207Yes, the class war has always existed to distract from the culture war. It is a total psyop.
>>18685423they rode on the coattails of other identitarian movements of the 20th century
>>18685215Liberals.....>dox and harass you for not supporting Karmelo>dox and harass you you for not supporting Lindsay>dox and harass you for not supporting troons>dox and harass you for criticizing any democrat policy at all>are perfectly fine with multi billion dollar welfare fraud cause it curbs racism somehow...?What the hell has Musk exactly done to me that's worse than what your average leftist does to their fellow "class" ? Can someone please explain.
>>18685974He's a billionaireHe could be giving that money to you, but he's not
>>18685977But I prefer to not be required to like Karmelo, Lindsay, Troons and endorse welfare fraud rather than Musk give me handouts?
Why are Jesus mythicists so common?How come there aren't like, Pythagoras mythicists? Or any other historical figure that has as much (or as little) evidence as Jesus?
>>18685080Unlike those people, jesus created an extremely unpopular religious movement. None of the pagans attacking christianity ever claimed he didn't exist though, that's an entirely modern innovation
>>18685058>How come there aren't like, Pythagoras mythicists?I'm unironically a Pythagoras mythicist because he sounds kinda made up plus there's the Pythagorean cult and shit.
>>18685058>Why are Jesus mythicists so common?Because all accounts of his life were written decades after his death.The accounts differ from one another and people kept making up new accounts for two hundred years afterwards. The idea of Jesus evidently inspired a lot of pseudo-historical fiction authors.>How come there aren't like, Pythagoras mythicists? Or any other historical figure that has as much (or as little) evidence as Jesus?Because it does not really matter whether Pythagoras existed, was one person or multiple people. He is famous for his ideas, not for who he was as a person. Jesus on the other hand was the jewish messiah, the (or a) son of God, or even God on Earth, depending on who you ask. It matters quite a lot whether he really existed or was wholesale invented. Because his message relies on his identity.
>>18685058Pythagoras is attested as having existed by near-contemporary figures who we know have some reliability, and capability to investigate the matters.It goes without saying that the bulk of claims about Pythagoras are mythical, or false.It is more common, because Jesus is a very noteworthy subject of study.>>18685146The gospels are all already highly mythicized, and Paul's epistles are unusually waffling about whether this Jesus figure existed on Earth, if there is indeed this Jesus figure on Earth. The claim of knowing a sibling is perhaps the one straightforward exception, if it stands. However, it appears early Christians considered themselves in general, 'brothers of the Lord', and that this would not be a claim of literal biological relation.>>18685160Because it was unpopular apparently, even the NT writers say the contemporary Romans couldn't care less about the claims of Jesus. By the time counterchristian works were being written, there wouldn't have been a way to make such investigations with some real extra info, probably. In any case, many figures which we consider mythical today, were approached with less skepticism by various Romans. For example, the pagan counterchristian writers believed in magic, so there was not much possibility for them to suspect outright invention, on pain of inconsistency.
>>18685377>all accounts of his life were written decades after his death.This is the case for almost any ancient figure. It's nearly impossible to find actual contemporary written accounts of an ancient person's life unless they literally wrote them themselves (eg cicero or caesar). Otherwise contemporary evidence of someone is usually non-literary (eg inscriptions or papyri), and usually don't offer very many details about the subject.
Prove to me there are 3 persons in the Godhead. Just because a fourth person isn't mentioned doesn't mean there isn't an additional one. Or more.
>>18685057Let's take a look at the definition>Special pleading is an informal fallacy wherein a person claims an exception to a general or universal principle, but the exception is unjustified.[1][2][3][4][5] It applies a double standard.[6][7]How have you justified the exception? You didn't lol, you just said it's "special" that's it. The fallacy still stands>wants me to let him move the goalpost Okay no problem I will accept this as a concession from you that they were indeed considered heretics. Imagine thinking this guy believed the same things you do and that he would have been accepted for it when even pic rel got the other Rabbis pissed at him>bro if you squint it looks just like the trinity!Thanks for admitting that the Son is another God
>>18685301>How have you justified the exception?Yes.>I will accept this as a concession from you that they were indeed considered hereticsI did not concede. My point was confirmed. Akiba was a respected rabbi who had to be retconned by Talmud. Thank you for proving my points. Will that be all?
>>18685327>Yes.No.>I did not concedeYou did, you shifted the goalpost after I showed you they were heretics. Obscure heretics even as the author of the book says. Which were not even Jews most of the time.>Actually he was just like me if you invent sourcesNope
>>18685402>No.>No don't mention Akiba pls>It just happens to line up 1:1 with the 2nd personAlriiiiight.
>>18685461>No please I beg you don't mention how they were considered fringe heretics and most of the time not even Jews!I also mentioned Akiba are you blind? The author wonders if he could have been associated with heresy for implying Heaven or the Earth were deities.
The day us that us oldfags long-feared is finally here. The September 11th attacks are now officially protected by the 25 year rule.To prevent the board from being flooded with anymore superfluous threads, this shall serve as a general discussion thread for all things September 11th. Rare photos, declassified documents, memes, conspiracy theories, you name it.
I refuse remember 9/11
>>18685889no, that ayylmao left earth a long time ago
>>18685888>conspiracy theoriesLet's stop calling them "theories" which was psyop created by the government, they're not "theories" they're facts
>>18685904Nah she's just Italian.
>>18685894I always forget if 9/11 was the new york one or the oklahoma one
I'll start>"People don't die for a lie"1) They do. Unless you want to apply that same argument to, say, the Baha'i or their teacher, or to Joseph Smith, or countless others. History is full of it. The complexities of the human psyche (pride, valuing honor above life, wanting to protect one's family from further dishonor, wanting to be martyred, believing the lie is a pious one or a metaphorical truth worth dying for) absolutely allow for it, so that it's not even necessary arguing for it having actually ever happened (it has, though) as it is still infinitely more likely than a resurrection.2) The (propagandistic and wildly unreliable) texts that yahwists accept cites two people dying and does not make it clear why they were killed. In the story, Stephen apparently dies for defending orthodox judaism and claims to have a vision of the "son of man" (a name for a supreme angel or agent of creation in late second temple judaism, often a synonym for the cosmic embodiment of the jewish people, the messiah, or the logos of greek thought). In that same work of fiction, a James is said to have been killed, without further details. To clarify: none of the gruesome killings of direct eyewitnesses who refused to recant exist in any source that the yahwist accept. For instance, the quo vadis domine thing that yahwists basedjak over is from the apocryphal acts of Peter, a book that contains talking dogs, the resurrection of a smoked fish, and a flying wizard battle.Now you go
>>18677871If we accept the narrative that Jesus was buried in a tomb instead of the more common practice of being buried in an unmarked grave, then the likely explanation for why his tomb was found empty is that his followers simply stole the body at night.Christian apologetics often respond to this saying “hurr durr the guards were bribed to say that”. But only Matthew claims Jesus’ tomb had guards who were bribed to say Jesus’ body was stolen, the other gospels make no mention of any guards and Mark even has Mary Magdalene ask how they will open the tomb when visiting (which shouldn’t be an issue if there were guards who could open it for them). Furthermore, Matthew isn’t clear on whether it’s Roman soldiers or temple guards and both lead to problems:>The punishment for Roman soldiers sleeping on the job was execution. So even if an entire squadron of guards all fell asleep, they would have never admitted it even if they were offered a bribe.>Temple guards were disorganized and could have fallen asleep on the job or be overpowered, making it possible for someone to slip past them to steal the body.If anything, the idea that there were any guards is the counter-narrative to the likely explanation that one of Jesus’ followers simply stole his body at night, not the other way around. Also, Jesus had thousands of followers, so even if none of the main disciples stole the body, another follower easily could have.
christians real silent in this thread for some reason
>>18685833Gee why would that be? I'm sure you are arguing in good faith and can be convinced by a good argument, no?
>>18685742o yea absolutely, just show us those "good arguments" (those that have not been refuted itt) and we can discuss em
>>18685970meant for >>18685847kekwas gonna say I agree with >>18685742
You have no idea how extremely disappointed humans from the stone age would be at today's society
>>18683249> ALL of them embraced faggotry to an extent with no real homophobia.This is very believable, though I'd like some sources/examples.
>>18683105>You have no idea how extremely disappointed humans from the stone age would be at today's societyWe've literally had the opportunity to bring in a few extant stone age people into modern society.They do possess a distinct animal cunning and can be quite robust, but they fucking LOVE fast food and they're all otherwise dumb as shit, violent, and prone to alcoholism. Cavemen are neat, I acknowledge the biological and ecological significance of cavemen and will absolutely steelman the position they should be preserved and respected - from a distance. I've seen what they take pride in though and how they've lived their lives both "on and off the rez": you're a pathetic doofus for seeking their approval, these people are IDIOTS.
>>18684082> they're all otherwise dumb as shit, violentThis varies quite a bit (the latter much moreso than the former).
>>18683243>everyone fucked everyoneWhy dont modern hunter gatherers who have zero contact with Abrahamism do this?
>>18683112Fpwp
>for the purpose of determining what is history, please do not start threads about events taking place less than 25 years ago9/11 is officially history now folks
>>18685698Its so retarded you can't talk about stuff like this here without jannies deleting threads and banning you.
>>18683542CIA Alec Station. Center of the intelligence failure. Never discussed by neither normies or conspiracy theorists. Nobody held accountable.
On /his/, the truth is history
Can we change the rule to 50 years?
>>18685691Second Intifada, Iraq war, Bush vs. Kerry(feat. Obama's DNC speech), Beslan school siege, Gaza disengagement, iPhone. Plenty of stuff before the financial crisis.
>1780s>someone talks shit to me>we duel>it's settled>time-travel freak accident happens>transported to modern day>meet modern woman>she talks mad shit>can't duel>can't slap a hoeHow would men of honor settle this?
Time travel is also regular travel (because the Earth moves) so I doubt it will ever be a thing.
>>18685059Men didn't duel women in the 18th century.
>>18685217the women also didn't talk mad shit
what is/was the superior system?
>>18680812You can literally go help vulnerable citizens today. But you won't, you will vote to force other people to pay so you can feel like you did the right thing. Other people meanwhile pay the price.
>>18682305Any argument?
>>18682319Of course. We are talking property taxes aimed at one group of people and then housing-related tax subsidies for older homeowners that include senior homestead exemptions, property-tax credits, assessment freezes, tax-rate reductions, and property-tax deferrals.
>>18680822This is just not true as I'm also active here and not Indian
>>18684037I got too much shit going on to help vulnerable citizens, but someone has to
The United States could have knocked down the air planes before they reached the twin towers.
9/11 was an Israeli jobhttps://www.unz.com/article/9-11-was-an-inside-outside-job/
>>18685893spamming links in multiple threads is grifter behavior so I'm just going to ignore you
>>18685887I doubt if it'll last much longer. I live in Australia where we have 3 undersea cables connecting us to the rest of the world. One was damaged last week by Chinese espionage, much like dozens of cables are damaged by Russian ships in the Baltic every year. It's as easy as dropping a fishing net from a civilian vessel, they aren't well protected. In an actual conflict, intercontinental internet would disappear, and even shorter ranged internet would be slower and less reliable. For Americans this may be a bit less damaging but imagine every Australian company losing their access to Microsoft servers on the same day. No Outlook, no OneDrive, not even MS Word or Excel. The economy would crash instantly. I work at a law firm and I can tell you there are no more paper files, nor are there even filing cabinets anymore. Important jurisdictions like parliament and the military might be able to use satellite internet if the US wasn't hogging it all to itself (a huge maybe in a conflict scenario), but in general life as we have known it for 30+ years would be over instantly. There are also huge issues with cybercrime which will take off in a real conflict since the internet. Governments will realise this soon and start creating their own great firewalls of China and Microsoft backups, but the unpopularity and expense of the might make it too late.
>>18685849zogbots dont feel emotions
>>18683770>Cold War ended nearly 10 years prior>West spent decades trying to take down communism>Cold War was fuel for the defense industry and an excuse to throw money at the military>Leaders and their handlers let it happen despite the warnings>We have a new long term to cause to "fight" against to keep business flowing
Realistically, is there any path China can take that leads to them eventually supplanting the US as the world's dominant power?
they already did
>>18685952not yet
>>18685950They don't really want that.
>>18685955Well, what do they want then? China is still lagging behind the US in most metrics.
>>18685950No. China could surpass the US economically but has no means of becoming a superpower with global influence rivaling that of the US.
