This board is dedicated to the discussion of history and the other humanities such as philosophy, religion, law, classical artwork, archeology, anthropology, ancient languages, etc. Please use /lit/ for discussions of literature. Threads should be about specific topics, and the creation of "general" threads is discouraged.For the purpose of determining what is history, please do not start threads about events taking place less than 25 years ago. Historical discussions should be focused on past events, and not their contemporary consequences. Discussion of modern politics, current events, popular culture, or other non-historical topics should be posted elsewhere. General discussions about international culture should go on /int/./his/ is not /pol/, and Global Rule #3 is in effect. Do not try to treat this board as /pol/ with dates. Blatant racism and trolling will not be tolerated, and a high level of discourse is expected. History can be examined from many different conflicting viewpoints; please treat other posters with respect and address the content of their post instead of attacking their character.When discussing history, please reference credible source material, and provide as much supporting information as possible in your posts.
I'd like to understand this strange fetish for the ancient Vedic Aryans. Why exactly are they the object of so much curiosity and pride? Compared to the Harappans, they were simply extremely backward All RV scholars agree that they didn't have large settlements, temples, or any kind of large-scale agriculture instead, they lived as nomads basing their entire economy on livestock. Ironically, modern East African peoples are like that, and you don't have the same reverence. Why? The most architecturally complex thing I found while studying was grass made of organic materials like wood, bamboo, and thatch, which were only seasonal, and cattle and people mixed in that place KEK Imagine the smell of manure, sweaty butts, and smelly feet?? Meanwhile, the Harappans had public pools, political centers, brick cities, sewers, and public baths. Like, there's no archaeological evidence of the Vedic peoples, lol, they didn't leave anything behind.
Notice how it's only after these guys arrived that people really started thinking. Yeah. they were going around on chariots philosophizing the whole earth talking about deep stuff. You could say even the greek philosophy only came after their arrival and language Nobody cares about some mud bricks and coomer statues.
>>18634086Late Harappa was definitely an empire of some sort. And regardless the culture had collapsed for like 500 years by the point of Aryan arrival onto India.
>>18634099>definitely>of some sort>killed themselves before Aryans came downWell at least we are back in the real world where the Aryan invasion happened. For some time there were a few annoying jeets who kept insisting it was made up lmao
>>18634095The Vedas are about how you shant steal the Brahmin's cows, Indra being epic, and how to kill horses to assert rulership.
>>18634110I'm not going to engage in a thirdie rapebabble contest with you. If you want to call the migrations an invasion then shuck and jive away. Btw tjere are different ways of holding an empire so I do not see why the qualifier is wrong.
Why should I worship Jesus instead of Zeus?
>>18634118All true. Moreover, the protector god's name was taboo in some cases and never said. We still don't know the secret name of Rome, it could be Hirpa or Lupicina or something else entirely
>>18634120>Roman Catholic ChurchYou worship Paul I suppose. Jesus was a Jew and worshiped the God of Israel, followed his commandments and expected his followers to do the same.Romans also worshiped the Greek gods under different names. Clearly it wasn't limited to Greeks.
>>18634118*probably would**
>>18634121Vedic dyaus has nothing to do with Zeus and try has nothing to do with Jupiter.
>>18634126Yes! I also didn't mention that, especially for ordinary people (90%), they feared the gods and the consequences of it so much that saying the names of the gods was avoided Tacitus, in 98 AD, stated that the Germanic peoples believed that "imprisoning the gods within walls or portraying them in human form" was incompatible with divine greatness, preferring to consecrate groves and forests So I don't know how accurate these modern asatru temples are or if they even existed perhaps they were restricted to priestly elites.
How come this part of the world is way smarter than everything around it despite being younger in terms of history
Blacks are superior.
>>18633895White iqs are on par with europe
>>18633895Recency is OP in terms of contribution.
>>18633845Evolution.Honestly I think what we need as a species to ascend to the next level is to start teaching evolution and how the races are the result of evolution. We have to acceptBlacks are dumb.Browns are also dumb but less so.West Eurasians and East Asians have the greatest intelligence.Humanity has to come to terms with the fact that we have entire races which are genetically inferior to others. I know egos are afraid but they must accept reality. Why do I say this? If you refuse to recognize the problem, you will never come up with a solution.Once it is accepted that genetic inferiority exists, we can begin to work on genetic engineering of the human species. We can eliminate stupid genes and introduce genes for intelligence. We can make a better humanity if we want to and anyone who opposes this must be evil and stupid.
10,000 years ago the european enviroment favoured higher iqs, and therefore they evolved towards them, while other enviroments, like africa or the americas favoured strength over pattern recogntion.
What was China like between 1949-1957 (pre-Great Leap Forward)?
>>18634109That may be true, but the casualty figures in that paper are probably quite inaccurate and they probably didn't know themselves exactly how many men were killed, wounded, or captured.
>>18634106The real truth is the CPV's performance in the war was considerably worse than the official PRC histories of the war which paint a very heroic and romanticized story of driving back the US imperialists. Entire companies were obliterated from exposure and combat action. Their logistics and medical staff were also appallingly bad and in many cases couldn't get any help to sick or wounded men. For sure the Chinese have painted a rosy picture of the war that was far from true and don't like to bring up how awful and shitty it actually was for them.
>>18634113The official number creeps up by a bit every year as the North Koreans dig up the remains. They fly them back and do a big ceremony at the airfield whenever they find a batch of them. They're up to like a quarter million confirmed KIA by now or something.Basically, they undercount their losses by never posting an official MIA count and not counting them as KIA unless the skeleton is eventually found.
>>18634122their armaments were a shitshow, there was no standardized caliber of service rifle in the PLA at that time and they would use basically anything that would shoot, including some homemade contraptions. by one account there were no less than 80 (!) different calibers of firearm in use. ammunition was rationed and artillery was only to be used in limited, specific situations. grenades were crude contraptions with black powder for an explosive and even the primacords from those had to be reused as they were in such short supply.
>>18634133they were helped along by Soviet equipment later in the war
>three old Zoroastrian magi>show up to confirm the next king of the Jews and to bestow gifts onto him>which they figured out using AstrologyWhat was Matthew smoking? Why would this give credibility to Jesus?Did he just think Magi were cool?
>>18631253>that doesn't address the argumentIt absolutely 100% does. The sole, complete, exclusive case for these men being polytheists is "most people were". That's the argument you make sentences later: "most Magi at that time were just Zoroastrians".Which I've responded to several times now. Even in normal circumstances assuming the average of the population applies to a specific individual can lead you wrong, but that's an order of magnitude more correct when you're dealing with someone who is most emphatically not average.>NoAnd does he imply, in any way, with anything he says, beyond "well maybe it could have been", that he has access to some independent source of information here?>The fact of the matter is he was way closer to the time period and that just increases the probabilityThis is like saying that we should take Irenaeus' claim that Jesus died and Pilate served under Emperor Claudius instead of Emperor Tiberius seriously just because he's an early Christian source. >True but this just proves that he believes them to have been polytheistsNot at any point in the textComment too long. Click here to view the full text.
>>18632897>Even in normal circumstances assuming the average of the population applies to a specific individual can lead you wrongI gave you an example that's pretty much identical which you conveniently dodged. Them being special also doesn't change anything. You have no extra information to conclude that you are right here while my point still stands. You only hold to this position because you think OP would be making a good argument if they were Zoroastrians so you reject the most common application of the term.>And does he implyYeah for example when he implies they revolted from their old ways, something the text itself never claims>just because he's an early Christian source"The closer a source is to the event which it purports to describe, the more one can trust it to give an accurate historical description of what actually happened." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_method#Core_principles_for_determining_reliability>Not at any point in the textYour own words state "he didn't think they were under the bondage of polytheism anymore when they came" meaning you accepted that it indicated polytheism at one point. btw I don't believe Zoroastrians are any more polytheistic than Christians are when they call Satan the god of this world.>And after that he ceased to believe in Judaism and became a Christian, yes?Yep meaning a particularly evil supposed Pharisee was chosen by Jesus invalidating your earlier point. If he could do it then so could a bunch of Zoroastrian priests
>>18632965>I gave you an example that's pretty much identical which you conveniently dodged.How is it identical? They're random guys who show up at your door. If you have a representative, randomly-selected sample, that is when it's reasonable to presume that the average holds. If God Himself directly guided certain specific Christians to tell you that you had been chosen to be the Mark to their Peter and scribe the next book of the Bible from them no you positively could not assume they were average!>Them being special also doesn't change anythingThat is like saying we can assume that NBA players heights average out to the American average height of 5'9. When someone explains to you that doesn't work because they are specially selected, you reply "Them being special doesn't change anything.">You have no extra information to conclude that you are right hereI absolutely do! My point: they aren't average so it doesn't work to assume the average of the population applies. My extra information: God put a glowing orb in the sky to lead them specifically to His son!>you think OP would be making a good argument if they were ZoroastriansI don't, it still wouldn't be a good argument since it asserts that they used astrology, despite the text and our historical evidence making it clear that was not a normal astronomical body, as explained in >>18623419>The closer a source is to the event which it purports to describe, the more one can trust it Consider the point that you're replying to - Irenaeus makes a boneheaded error about a basic fact of when Jesus lived. He's centuries earlier than, say, Movses Khorenatsi. But Irenaeus' chronology is wrong and Khorenatsi's is correct, Pilate served under Tiberius, not Claudius, today this is proven archeologically. Comment too long. Click here to view the full text.
>>18633891>How is it identical?Very simple we just swap the words Magi for Christian and then we use the common contemporary understanding of what their religious inclinations are likely to be in each situation. Learn to track this is under normal circumstances since you specifically said "Even in normal circumstances">That is like saying we can assume that NBA players heights average out to the American average height of 5'9.Nope you have such faulty reasoning skills. If the label being investigated here is "NBA players" then the average height of "NBA Players" is taken into consideration. Similarly if the label being investigated here is "Magi" then the average religious beliefs of "Magi" are taken into consideration. What you're saying instead is that the "NBA Players" and "Magi" being investigated are super duper special, so in the first case you have 4'3 dwarfs and in the second chosen monotheists following around UFOs>My extra information: God put a glowing orb in the sky to lead them specifically to His son!And? A glowing orb can be used to lead Zoroastrians to Jesus>despite the text and our historical evidence making it clear that was not a normal astronomical bodyYou haven't given an argument for that beyond "it's special because in other places Christians didn't die when they followed it" History shows that a comet was recorded in around a similar time period to both events like for example the Chinese>whereas Irenaeus seems to have just used his own suppositionAs he does every time he makes fantastical claims such as him having apostolic succession from John through Polycarp despite Polycarp never mentioning his supposed teacher in his own works. It still doesn't change the fact that you're denying a basic principle of the historical method in determining the reliability of historical claims. How are you even on the history board lol?
>>18630858Messiahs are part of Zoroastrianism you tard>inb4 no they aren't!!!Learn to read the things that were already posted and explained
Why did one succeed and the other failed?
What was America like during the guilded age?
>>18634093>guildedA thread died for this saar
There was a guild for everything im sure. Adventurers, flour, rice, whores, millers
>>18634103>millersTRVE roman bread for TRVE romans!
Religion appeals to the male power fantasy, encouraging main character energy. This is not inherently bad as main characters influence the lives of many others.
>>18634112Is this the thing where you say something wrong in an attempt to get someone to correct you?
Unlike the Anglo-Saxons who are obsessed with race, who qualifies as “white,” and the whole “one-drop” rule, Hispanics never cared about who is who or what they looked like. From the blondest of hair to the darkest of skin color, we are all Hispanic brothers and sisters regardless of our blood.
Studying Asian history has convinced me that fierce endogamy and racist border policies are basically the only historical and political views worth having. Latinxer and African history only reinforces this. As white people you have one of the few genomic and cultural gifts worth not just passing on but expanding at the expense of others. I do not want to be like you latinxer bros. I do not want to live like you live. Religions, cults, morals, all of that will die. Blood lives on, pure or corrupted, you heart know the difference and what is true. Any child does. It doesn't have to be taught. This wheel turns forever.
How did the amerindians get mutted this easily
>>18633788It's a recent development
>>18633487>we do not need to be”white” or “med”Yes you do
>>18633507anglos still unironically believe that the spanish inquisition routinely hunted and burnt millions of witches without due process
Why did Iberia have the most separatist movements in history?
>>18631583Castilians are the only ones obsessed with being "Spanish"
>>18633248New Koreanhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refugees_on_Jeju_Island
>>18633448Castilians ARE the Spanish, though.
>>18633941They are self-obsessed
>>18634115>Sabino Aranalmao, you had to post that one guy who hated Castilians so much he had to pull out a whole mythos out his ass to revive a whole "national identity" that was dead for centuries
I get there were some where the communist parties were revisionist nationalists from day 1 and it was a lost cause, but not all of them were like that.They already annexed the Baltic states before the war. The whole justification for the USSR existing was that it was the multinational socialist federation that would grow to encompass Europe as national communist movements succeeded.So why did Stalin stop at creating a bloc of separate people's republics after WWII instead of incorporating the ones that actually wanted to join? And why was Königsberg annexed directly into the RSFSR rather than treated as a socialist national republic? Doesn't this ultimately undermine the USSR's claim to be something fundamentally different from a Russian Empire, while leaving separate national republics to develop their own bourgeois nationalism?
>>18633872>If the local communist parties could control these countries Also this is a big "if." To emphasize this point more. It's not at all clear this was the case. Soviet troops also intervened to crush an uprising in East Berlin in 1953. Bertolt Brecht witnessed it and wrote a famous poem about how it would be simpler if the government dissolved the people and elected another one (rather than the other way around).The history is pretty fascinating but communist rule was pretty grim. Problem is a lot of people on the internet who talk about it are nerds like us, and they can either have cliche anti-communist views like people were just eating rats all the time, or they are like weeaboos for dead communist regimes from Eastern Europe. To me it reads like pretty crummy, poor, but not-too-terrible but not spectacular City-17 type police state:https://youtu.be/vATEVi9u0UgBut people still get up in the morning and go to work. Then they go home and get drunk. The issue with these police states is they did not allow any kind of civil society to exist. Just a weird top-down political system that atomized the population in a really radical way, and which was also closed to the public, highly suspect and secretive (and hypocritical) form of government, you wouldn't know what they were going to do until they announced it. So people trudge along, but resentment builds until there was a weird ambience of silent hate pervading a considerable number of people, and then it would randomly explode during a walkout / strike as a mob of angry pissed-off people attack the local communist party HQ (look up Gdansk in the early '70s) and burn it down, and then troops show up and kill several hundred people. You read about this and it's like what the fuck.
>>18633872>YugoslaviaTito was a Franco style paid agent of MI5. In fact more of a paid agent than Franco. His job was to larp as communist just convincingly enough that the genuine communists in Yugoslavia didn't overthrow him. Joining NATO would be too brazen and lead to his overthrow, so instead he made a military pact of mutual defense with two NATO countries Greece and Turkey, which was essentially joining NATO with extra steps. He was vetted by British intel during WW2 and they were convinced he had no plans to build communism, which is why they sent so much aid to the Yugoslav communist partisans. Contrast this with France where despite communists being by far the largest on the ground force, the allies refused to arm them.
>>18633898The core issue is that democratic centralism which is the core political formula of marxism-leninism has never worked because it requires a radical level of democracy and accountability within the party that real humans are not prone to. People are corrupt, and those in power are disincentivized from jeopardizing their own position so will lie and undermine democracy.Plus any resentment builds purely against the ruling party with no pressure release valve. Anglo style two party democracy is a great social technology because even through there is massive resentment against the system, the spectacle of election campaigns constantly allows people to blow off steam casting their useless votes for capitalist party red faction or blue faction.
>>18633673Well a huge part of Communist ideology was being opposed to imperialism. So the USSR, to maintain some legitimacy, needed to have the pretense of not being a conquering empire.There's also the fact that direct annexation would cause so much unrest and partisan activity when there was comparitivally no benefit.If Stalin could control Poland, Romania, Hungary, and so on, through puppet states, he would still be able to get everything he wanted out of them.Also they did take part of the carpathians
>>18633687>masses divisions at the border for some obscure reason>goes 50/50 with Der Führer on Poland>attacks Finland>"no bro we are not expanding I swear on Lenin's corpse"
In 1953, Iran's democratically elected left wing government was overthrown by the CIA, and a US backed dictator, the Shah, was installed.In 1954, Guatemala's democratically elected socialist government was overthrown by the CIA, and a US backed dictator was installed. In 1971, Argentina's democratically elected socialist government was overthrown by the CIA, and a US backed dictator was installed. It's a clear trend that whenever I third world country elects a left wing government that tries to free their country from the control of international mega corporations, the US steps in and overthrows them replacing them with tyrants who promise not to challenge the power of global capital. America is the head of a global empire of greed. In order for humanity to progress, the American Empire must fall.
>>18633739I don’t have a problem with that, business is business
>>18633646>>18633666>guy who just learned about the cold war
>>18633733The wealth of a nation should go to building roads, schools, and hospitals, funding education, healthcare, and housing. It shouldn't just go straight into the wallet of a foreign billionare.>>18633732That fact that you've already stooped to personal insults shows that I'm right and you can't refute what I'm saying.
>>18634069Poor people do not deserve gibs
>>18633646the Dulles brothers caused a lot of problems.turns out when you overthrow democracies, it can bit you in the ass in the long run.
>Obesus from Alabama was an american soldier tormented by guilt for the horrors he caused in Iraq under the command of Shartanon
>>18634080
>>18634080this dixie has more testosterone than 10 union yankees combined.
Wtf is this thread jannies helloooooo? Earn your fucking keep
How did pre-Darwin atheists explain the existence of animals?
>>18632968Again, theologically, you have no idea what you are talking about. If I had to guess you are probably some non-denominational Evangelical and thus have no scholastic tradition. That's fine, but God calls you to be humble and to not lie, right now you are lying, and I would guess that you are even aware of the limitations of your knowledge, but you still speak confidently. I promise you if you were to read the works of the Church fathers closely and if you were to also be well-informed about these scientific concepts you claim are Epicurean, you would begin to realize that very little of modern science clashes in anyway with the Church. Science at its heart is not some Epicurean tradition, it is the study of the natural world, it is not free from less than compelling arguments, but by making yourself an enemy of empirical observation you give a free win to the "enemy" as you put it.
>>18632603It only seems awful to you because you were religiously indoctrinated before learning about it
>>18633423>griftLeftists' favorite buzzword
>>18634072Grifters hate it
>>18634085A lot of the anti-intellectual right and left for that matter are grifts in the states religious or not. It is a major feature of North and South American politics actually.
