Volume 68PathChapter 657: Uchiha Madara Returnshttps://desuarchive.org/a/thread/274143504Previous thread:>>291552948
>>291577764>>291577776>>291577786Jobber flames...
Madara is now canon to EminemNot sure how to feel about that
>>291577918if only ohnoki was here to nuke him
B&W
>>291577848It's ridiculous how these fucks can still get cut and stabbed as easily a regular human while shrugging off jutsu
>>291577938Kishimoto about to write the biggest, most senseless asspull in the series (until around 10 chapters from now)
Done!
>>291577764Rinnegan shatters like a contact lense
>>291577786Woah woah woah, why is Hashirama suddendly tired and with four sticks stabbing his back?
>>291577764Why are his eyes exempt from his Edo Tensei body being turned into a living one? His real eyes still being in Obito and Nagato's possession shouldn't matter, he should just get new ones.
>>291577881>madara's willgroanzetsu is the worst thing about shitppuden
>>291578116Fuck off
>>291577848Sasuke could've ended the battle right there if he used amaterasu again
So how is Madara absorbing chakra without the Rinnegan? And how is he speedblitzing sage mode Naruto?
WHEN CONVICTION FALLSIN THE SHADOWS OF THE RIGHTEOUSTHE PHANTASMS OF YOUR MINDARE CALLING YOU TO GO
>>291578310
>>291577938>Madara casually killed a fodder (and I guess a lot more on his way there)Oh God, Naruto's going to have another breakdown
>>291578329
>>291577799I hate how allergic Kishimoto is to drawing muscles. Madara should've looked something like this.
>>291577938>he bought into his own hype
>>291578217>Why are his eyes exempt from his Edo Tensei body being turned into a living one? His real eyes still being in Obito and Nagato's possession shouldn't matter, he should just get new ones.i guess it's because his eyeballs are actually still alive.
>>291577776Wait, how does he still have the Preta Path's ability to absorb jutsu if his Rinnegan eyes are gone?
>>291578514>Wait, how does he still have the Preta Path's ability to absorb jutsu if his Rinnegan eyes are gone?Once you awaken Rinnegan's powers, they stay with your body even if you lose the eyeballs. Well, some of them at least.
>>291578215>Woah woah woah, why is Hashirama suddendly tired and with four sticks stabbing his back?Continuity error. He should have already had the black stakes through him last chapter.
>>291577924Asuma no waza da...
>>291577809>Sage Naruto knocked away by blind MadaraProbably his worst showing.
>>291578281Or do that thing he's done a million times before and run chidori through the blade.
>>291577938Kino
>>291577809Are Naruto and Sai really so fucking useless that they couldn't restrain a blind man??
>>291577821Hashirama wasn't even in Sage mode, the fuck is this bullshit? Why not grab Naruto, who's actually in Sage mode?
>>291577966Something something Hashirama's cells
>>291577799>actually built like a twinkWhat the fuck, Kishi...
>>291578659Madara's physical power is probably on the level of the Raikage and Tsunade now. Still a bad showig for Sage Naruto.
>>291577809Why is Madara so strong while blind? There isn't any reason for him to practice fighting blind due to him having incredible eyesight due to his sharingan. If anything Madara should much much worse than most at fighting blind due to an over reliance on his sharingan. Someone like Hashihama should be a much better "blind" fighter due to him needing to avoid staring into Madara's eyes.
>>291578555>Once you awaken Rinnegan's powers, they stay with your body even if you lose the eyeballs.Why does he need his original eyeballs back, then?
>>291577821Why can Madara absorb sage energy? Isn't that like against the entire thing that makes sage special beyond the power buff?
>>291577863WHY ARE THEY JUST STANDING THERE!?!?
>>291577938>>291578116Arigatou, OP!
>>291577848>Mangekyo patterns are actually relevantWhat a weird thing to introduce.
>>291577764If the reason his eyes disintegrated is because they were just fake eyes made from Kabuto's experiments, then shouldn't Madara's body also dissolve or at least go back to being a geezer, since him being young was also due to Kabuto doing some special tempering with his Edo?
>>291577776Did Sai drewed Sasuke a bird
>>291579136It's more so that his actual eyes are alive in Obito and Nagato.
>>291577966The one doing the stabbing is also superhuman.
>>291578964The Infinite Tsukuyomi needs to reflect eyes into the moon.
>>291579136>If the reason his eyes disintegrated is because they were just fake eyes made from Kabuto's experimentsThey weren't
>>291579085I mean, is it really relevant? I don't think it is ever mentioned again.
>>291577909say what you want about the Black Zetsu storyline, I love that pure essence design of his
>>291579038They are quite perplexed. A guy just came out of the ground.
>>291577938Funny that he is looking at them despite being blind.
>>291579244Kakashi did the same thing like 3 times so far.
>>291579216>is it really relevant?According to Madara's statements, it is.
>>291579021Pain could too. Only difference is that Madara doesn't turn into a frog/snake/etc. because he is Madara.
>>291579374Nagato was using Petra path there, Madara shouldn't even be able to do that without a rinnegan.
>>291579213You have no proof of that.
>>291577924>>291577938>character is literally blind (eyes closed)>it doesn't debuff him at allI hate this trope so fucking much.how can he do anything like this?is it sensing chakra type shit?
>>291579405He uses Susano'o blind next chapter. He just can because Kishi wanted to extend the plot.
>>291579432It's because he took Hashirama's sage chakra and can sense shit easily. Although it's really, really retarded that he was able to blitz both Naruto and Sai earlier when he had neither sage mode nor his eyes.
>>291577799>naruto's obsession for sasukeor>madara's obsession for hashiramawhich is more powerful?
>>291578659Sai getting his ass beat is fine, but sage Naruto? That's some bullshit
>>291577799>levels of gayness Naruto wishes he could achieve
>>291577834>Naruto so utterly dazzled by Sasuke's magnificent swordplay and coolness that he's literally unable to get his lazy ass off the ground and to go help
>>291577764JOBBERASU!
>>291579038lmao that first panel made me think the exact same thing
>>291577809Oh god, Naruto is even in sage mode here while he's getting blitzed. That's embarrassing.
>>291577834>>291577848>EMS Sasuke>>Sageruto in speedYeah, I'm not buying this.
>>291577895hehe
>>291577786Quick, Sasuke! Hit him again now that he can't just strip to get rid of amaterasu!
>>291577821So I guess Madara can just do thatNever mind that he doesn't have the rinnegan and Hashirama isn't even in sage mode
>>291578116Thanks, comfy and canon OP!
>>291577909Obito looks absolutely exhausted and just done with all this shit
>>291577776Nice words from someone who just threw a giant Rasenshuriken at the guy one chapter ago Naruto
>>291578964They let him use Limbo.
>>291578470Why though? Madara is more like a wizard piloting his giant Susano than a martial artist
>>291577776So... your great option against the almighty Madara... was to use the jobber black flames...
>>291578602>>291579599Madara is just that fucking broken, he just destroyed the torii gates last chapter by... flexing?>>291578831Don't think about it, he's about to do much more
>>291578281You're only allowed to hit someone with amaterasu if they have an extra layer they can get rid of, it's in the contract.
>>291579085It's really weird because it's never explained what "straight tomoe" are. Madara's eyes only have straight portions due to his brother Izuna's pattern, while Obito's eyes have straight portions.
>>291579602I don't see a reason to think EMS Sasuke wouldn't have been blitzed by Madara like the others were.
>>291577938Surely a blind, non-edo Madara can't take the tailed beasts, kage, Naruto, Sasuke, and the rest of the forces on all at once, right?
>>291579709He's ready to meet Rin but the plot won't let him
>>291579413He unlocked the Rinnegan before he died. Speedreader.
>>291579136No, the eyes only disintegrate because the real ones are still alive. If someone had taken Madara's dick and was running around with it alive attached to their body, Madara's dick would crumble to dust in the same way.
>>291579708You have no life.
>>291578293He can tank bijuu fucking him up, he's just THAT good
>>291579775>Don't think about it, he's about to do much moreAt least using Susano'o while blind has the precedent of Itachi's use. Madara bitch-smacking Sage Naruto while in a base form and having no eyes is a crazy showing. When Madara dodged Sasuke's sword and trapped it with his arm, he at least had Hashirama's Sage Mode.
>>291577938HOW CAN HE SEE WITH HIS EYES CLOSED?
>>291579873He didn't use Susanoo
>>291579875sage chakra he mastered in a few seconds after sucking hashirama
>>291579873Itachi was blind but at least he still had his eyes, Madara doesn't even have a sharingan in his eye sockets.
>>291577924>Madara is regaining his past strengthAm I really supposed to believe alive Madara who fought Hashirama was stronger than body-modded infinite chakra rinnegan edo Madara with regeneration? Especially now that he's fucking blind.
>>291577938so how did madara being blind affect him ... at all?
>>291579875They're big chunks of chakra, maybe he can sense them
>>291579901He's not really doing very well there, he's just not dying.
>>291579924He pretty much took 0 damage from that and only started using Susanoo later (for fun)Dude's a walking bijuu even without any eyes
>>291579828NTA but it's weird that both Nagato and Madara are brought back with rinnegan since it's the same pair of eyes and Nagato had them when he died but Madara didn't
>>291579966He's beat to shit and he has Hashirama's regeneration and Sage Mode. He looks much worse there than at the end of the current chapter. It's impressive durability but nothing Orochimaru couldn't do.
>>291579901He did a couple of pages after that
>>291579988Madara's Edo Tensei got optimized somehow. Nagato was brought back with white hair like how he died but Madara was rewound back to youth by Kabuto.
>>291579966The slug beast is so gross
>>291580009I'm pretty sure Orochimaru would get fucked up by 6 bijuus wailing on him. He's also one of the most retardedly durable characters around, so even if Madara is "only" pulling Oro durability feats it's still insane.>>291580014Yeah but he just straight up tanked these full powered bijuu charges, like 6 or 7 of them without flinching.
>>291579755Purely for aesthetic reasons. It just looks cooler. (and realistically he would probably be more bulky instead of twinkish)
>>291580063I think he'd be lean fit, not bulky. Just take the OG page and make his arms slightly bulkier and give him muscle definition.
>>291579794Staight tomoe=SasukeGay tomoe=Itachi
>>291578098>>291578090This is such bullshit. Why didn't he use his Raiton on his sword? Why is Sai charging head on when he's already at an advantageous position considering his skillset? And fucking hell Naruto has 13 different ways he could fuck up Madara from that distance but both decide to just ran towards him without expecting any counter attack. How does he then get away from a guy who can sense everyone's chakra perfectly and from a guy who can see everyone's chakra just as well?? The second half of this manga is a real disgrace to what came before.
>>291577938He's so fucking cool.
>>291579794I'd say only EMS Sasuke and Izuna's, and consequently Madara's EMS, are straight, meaning they have pattern that doesn't make a curve into a wheel pattern at any point
Reminder Sageruto can accurately counter a Raikage's spear and redirect it into his chest but gets blitzed and PUSHED BACK by blind base Madara
>>291579085the amount of bullshit Kishi pulled out of his ass in the last 100 chapters of the manga is beyond comprehension
>>291580343It's actually retarded that Madara is somehow able to blitz sage Naruto, but as usual Uchiha wank takes precedence over consistency.
At least with Obito you could debate about something but with Madara you can only point to broken power screw ups until he gets one shot by Zetsu somehow.
>>291580343M-m-maybe Naruto was just tired here..
His power level is just bigger I guess.
The manga would become a lot more enjoyable to read if you let go of your power level autism and "why can X do Y here even though Z?"
>>291579912He hasn't even done anything impressive yet. He kicked non KCM Naruto, killed some fodder, kicked Sauce and absorbed senjutsu from an immobile Hashirama. Before he does anything noteworthy he'll have gotten his eye(s) back (read: whining the next 5 panels). No idea what people are whining about.
>>291580824What a fucking faggot deflection. Kishi has been forcing power level autism up the reader's ass since Madara was brought back as a Edo.
>>291580824You have to understand. Midwits need to act like they've found "holes" so they can feel superior and intelligent. They aren't smart enough to come to terms with the fact that their critique tends to be poor, not to say outright wrong. If there's one thing these sort of threads always prove it's how fucking dumb most anime/manga fandom elitists happen to be.
>>291580905>t.
>>291580824>>291580905People only complain about power level inconsistencies on a big scale if the action is bad, which is applies to this segment.
>>291580905>They aren't smart enough to come to terms with the fact that their critique tends to be poor, not to say outright wrongAll you've said is "ur dumb and wrong!" but used more words to make it sound like you're not a retard.
>>291580978You don't even know what an inconsistency is, you ape. You simply use the term because you personally disagree with something that's being done. That's not an inconsistency. That's your personal, your subjective opinion. Nothing more. And again, he hasn't even done anything yet bar running around and kicking a few people.
HOW CAN THE MOST POWERFUL AND EXPERIENCE UCHIHA THAT EVER LIVED BLITZ A TIRED AND UNPREPARED TEENAGER... AND SAI
>>291580995Yea, because you are dumb. Like, genuinely fucking mouthbreather tier. Within the framework of the series it was shown countless time how much Madara and Hashirama kog everybody else. Even your Raikage related example is retarded. It wasn't even stated that he performed his attacks in a super fat manner. So Naruto evading the single finger Speer doesn't mean he's was "fast". Hell, the fucking rubber guy was able to react to the Raikage attacking. Guess he's Minato tier in speed now..Retarded mongrel.
>>291581149And it's fucking retarded that Madara, even blind, is no diffing the fuck out of the entire world. Yes, it's established in the framework, that doesn't make it not retarded. Hashirama being so God tier as to be able to no diff the planet is established in the framework of the series. That doesn't make it good.
>>291581139>brings up Itachi out of nowhere
>>291581208What does his eyesight have to do with his speed? How is he no-diffing ANYTHING? He kicked some fucking people, used an evasion skill so he wouldn't have to fight the strong ones and killed a few genin. He has done absolutely fucking NOTHING. What is fucking wrong with you? What series are you reading?
>>291580824>if you let go of your power level autismpower level autists and fujos are the only audience Madara attracts
>>291581139Way to undersell Ninja Jesus there
>>291577966Naruto characters aren't immune to stabbing or cutting. No matter what arc, throwing kunai and shuriken is always deadly even if it's done by an average shinobi.
>>291577872These two fucks are so useless. Yellow flash can't intercept Zetsu 0.5 meters from him.
>>291581208Madara gets no diffed next chapter, loses an arm and almost dies. Then he gets his eye back. What are you even complaining about?
>>291581356>kunais are more deadly than getting smacked by a bunch of tailed beastscrazy shit
Imagine if Guy was here. He'd whoop Madara's ass in a few seconds.
>>291577758Forgot the trip again, or falseflag?
>>291581401>Madara gets no diffed>Almost diesFucking lmao, you don't even know shit about what you're obsessively defending.
>>291581792>Attacks the bijuu>Gets sanded>Gets tailed >Loses an arm >Has numerous gaping wounds>Runs away from the bijuu >Inflicted no damage whatsoever>Everybody's just wondering what this eyeless retard is trying to doIs that akin to him beating them lmao? No eyed Madara accomplishes virtually nothing.
>>291581792Madara should have actually died from all the shit he took next chapter, can't believe that faggot is defending that shitshow.
>>291581867>Goalpost moving mouthbreathers go from "uhm he nodiffs everybody this is so dumb" to "uhm why doesn't every else just nodif him this is so dumb"Refer to >>291580905
>no eyes madara is stronger than than naruto, sasuke and the whole alliance together????????????
>>291580905>>291580824It's actually especially bad here because Kishimoto indulges A LOT in powerfaggotry. Characters can't spend 5 minutes without throwing retarded powerscaling compliments. And so when these powersets start making 0 sense whatsoever it hurts especially bad.
never forget the Hiruzen vs Hashirama and Tobirama plot hole
>>291581139Dude.
>>291581899You're a fucking retard. This isn't even some poking holes thing, it's actually something even basic movies get criticized for when a guy tanks shit they just shouldn't be able to tank. Like absurd durability. It takes you out of the experience. It looks dumb. It IS dumb.
>>291581977What about this makes 0 sense? Pray tell. What has eyeless Madara accomplished that pulls you out? Come on.
>>291582064This >>291579901It's not just stupid, it also LOOKS stupid. Straight out of a cartoon.
>>291582120What does something looking stupid have to do with power levels? Can't you even keep up with your own argument for two consecutive posts? And why shouldn't a sage mode enhanced person be unable to endure blunt damage? You realize the first thing that was established when Naruto learned sage mode was that him falling 50m didn't hurt him anymore, right? You're read the manga, right?
>>291577909Chojuro the UNAWARE DUMBASS>things would have been all over if someone took the time to properly and immediately seal Black Zetsu
>>291582189>What does something looking stupid have to do with power levels?Can you read you fucking mongoloid? It IS stupid because base Madara doesn't really have anything that can explain him just shrugging off these many bijuu hits, he's not even a physical fighter, and it ALSO (on top of that) looks stupid which is even worse>You realize the first thing that was established when Naruto learned sage mode was that him falling 50m didn't hurt him anymoreHe also stopped a giant rhino running dead in his tracks but somehow an Uchiha twink pushes him back, so there's no explanation. It IS stupid, Madara is just running on Gigachad power rather than actual established skills.
>>291582221Absolute clown lmao. Holy shit. You're either a jeet or some grocery bagger at Walmart.
>>291580824>it's good if you just ignore all the inconsistencies
>>291581378Yellow Snail
>>291577821>another powerupAnd still we are not done with the Madara copypasta yet.
>>291577758I just came here to say that *Mensagem* is overrated. If it’s going to be poorly written and come up with ideas like “a return to normalcy” and “this is the right way to act, even though it’s cringe and gay,” it’s just a waste of time. Naruto, like a lot of shonen series, has this “return to normalcy” trope, which is BS because there’s nothing normal about these people. Why would I embrace being a normie when I don’t even understand that concept, and knowing that “normality” is way lame compared to what I do? I want to gang-bang my girlfriend with my 1,000 clones while she twists a finger drill into my anus. I want to, I don’t know, fuck myself while I fuck a clone of my wife. I want to do everything more efficiently and better than doing it the “old way.” Let’s be honest: at the end of the series, Naruto was having orgies while he was lying to his wife about his “duty.” Same goes for Sasuke. Two liars.
>>291577848>>291577918>>291577924>>291577938>Says he's going to take Sasuke's eyes>has him held in place>has cloud of ash to obstruct and stun others>...leaves and fights some fodder
dog hokagebear haku
>>291580905A lot of mauler types seething from this
>>291582501Sasuke is so lucky...
>>291577786>blocks susanoo >>291577799>senju bullshit on his chest>>291577809>1v4's these noobs blind>>291577821>sucks sage mode out of nowhere>can randomly control it>>291577848>tanks a fucking sword that wasn't chidori for some reason>mangekyou shape matters suddenly>>291577881>more bullshit that later gets retconned>>291577924>he's STILL getting strongerthis is the chapter where kishi lost the plot
>>291577924Okay, couldn't he do that from the start at least?
>>291583255nah that was long ago
funnycomfy
>>291577799Cool Kakuzu callback. Naruto has these little details that nobody notices.
>>291577821So I guess Madara is flexible enough or has long dick to getting blowjob from the Hashirama on his chest.
>>291577924WTF a ninja like technique.
>>291577821I'll go further, that's a Kinnikuman reference. Naruto is really cool.
>>291583767How is that a Kakuzu callback?
>>291579432Eyes in Naruto aren't useful for seeing. They're useful for the cool eyehax they give you.
>>291577786>>291577799>>291577809>>291577821Has Amaterasu a cooldown? Sasuke just stood there for half a minute. Sure he evaded the his Amaterasu by stripping his clothes, but now he's literally naked and can't do it again.
>>291584223Madara almost certainly absorbed the flames with Preta Path. Taking off the armor wouldn't prevent them from spreading to his skin and especially hair; they were all over his back.
>>291577764Funny how that one sneak attack that caught Madara off guard wasn't lethal on the spot. It couldn't have been a Susanoo arrow for example?
>>291584002Kakuzu's gimmick was turning hearts into masks, and he had a beef with Hashirama. But since this is a Big Budo reference, it might just be a coincidence.
>>291577872Oh no he's holding the evil terrorist, that is going to die anyway and already came to terms with his death, hostage!? Better not make a move!? WTF!
>>291577758Honestly, the sloppiness of the author's decisions undermines everything he's done in these pages. Not to mention the power-level faggotry where everyone has to nitpick stuff just to argue on battleboards.
>>291584274Itachi would have Totsuka'd Madara's ass, literally.
>>291584263He doesn't have the rinnegan, how would he use Preta Path?
>>291581579The trip was getting to be a hassle, so I retired it.
>>291577799
>>291581044Go on, tell us how it's not an inconsistency.
>>291581356Except Tobi that one time when he tanked Suigetsu's sword.
>>291581851I think the point is that he should accomplish even less.
>>291585286He should accomplish one thing and that's dying a painful death from the giant beasts ramming at him full strength
>>291577918>Sai charging at MadaraThe fuck was he gonna do? Does he even know any sort of taijutsu?
>>291585144lol
>>291585409He did pretty good against early part 2 TARDruto
>>291585472Early part 2 Naruto would genuinely need a couple of tails to defeat current Tenten.
>>291577938does anyone here actually like madara for genuine reasons? i don't mean liking him because you find him funny and because of memes. i mean from a story standpoint.
>>291586024I would probably hate Madara too if Obito wasn't there.
>>291580824>the manga would be fun if you turned your brain off
>>291584966The same way he uses Susano'o without any Mangekyou Sharingan.
i miss when powerful skills had some kind of drawback.>kakashi and zabuza using water dragons on each other took time and a ridiculous amount of handseals to use so no one could just spam an attack of that caliber.>naruto's kyuubi mode could only be used when under duress so it wasn't something he could reliably use. hosting the kyuubi also came with the cost of naruto being ostracized.>the 8 gates being a body destroying kai-oh ken.>sasuke's curse mark taking a toll on his body.>gaara's sand armor reducing his mobility so he's an easy target as long as you have a skill that can pierce it. his shukaku transformation also left himself vulnerable so shukaku could be stopped. the jinchuriki tradeoff of being ostracized in exchange for power.>edo tensei taking real sacrifices to use.>orochimaru's quest to learn every jutsu/immortal taking human sacrifices.naruto had a thing where great power came with a great drawback/inconvenience. then the war arc just has senseless powerups with no drawbacks.
>>291586572>edo tensei taking real sacrifices to use.that's not much of a cost for ninja capable of killing thousands easily
>>291586572Edo tensei has always been super cheap for psychos like Orochimaru and KabutoThe real drawback, or requirement in this case is needing DNA from the person you want to revive, which depending on who it is should be really hard to come by
>>291586572That kind of gimmicky writing and puzzle-based storytelling is lame. I really like it when the author goes all out without slowing down the story with dumb rules. It’s fine in dumb kung fu flicks if used sparingly. Otherwise, it’s just about a guy overcoming a cheap gimmick. That’s why JJK is better than most major shonen series from the last two decades.
>>291587066the chuunin exams is still one of the best and most influential story arcs.
>>291578217The eyeballs are elsewhere.
>>291577821He absorbed sage chakra....like the fat Pain guy......but without a rinnegan......that somehow didn't turn him into frog.....all right.
>>291577848What the fuck is a straight pattern?
Thanks to our hero, dailyramen!
>>291577764>>291577776Wait, when did Hashirama get impaled with black rods?
>>291587917The opposite of your pattern
>>291587997Last chapter, except it wasn't shown. Retcon lol
>>291587917That it isn't curved. Madara (pre-EMS)/Itachi/Obito/Shisui are curved; Sasuke/Madara (post-EMS)/Izuna are straight.
Is there a character that could even possibly EVEN TOUCH Madara Uchiha? Let alone defeat him. And I’m not talking about Edo Tensei Uchiha Madara. >>291577809I’m not talking about revived Uchiha Madara either.>>291577821Hell I’m not even talking about revived Uchiha Madara with senjutsu chakra.
>>291587939Slayer of generals. Founder of dailes. Savior of the franchise.
>>291587939>>291588293Nice to see you're wasting another day of your life here lol
>>291588160Guy with the 8 gates.
>>291577764
>>291577821When you cum but she keeps sucking.
A thread truly worthy of my presence. Not a soul around here!
>>291588960>sheMadara transitioned? he kinda will
>>291577913https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVsSUFW5Bklol, what a slop.
>>291586572>edo tensei taking real sacrifices to useFor a nation that apparently saw absolutely nothing wrong with sending toddlers into the meat grinder, the idea of sacrificing enemy POWs or criminals to be immortal zombies to throw at your enemies being too morally repugnant is outright indefensibly retarded.
>>291590183the forest of death made no sense but it was still presented as messed up that orochimaru sacrificed his followers to be edo sacrifices.
>>291586901>Edo tensei has always been super cheap for psychos like Orochimaru and Kabutopsychos like them and tobirama are also the few people who would actually use edo tensei.there's a cost tied to it that most people aren't comfortable with (besides the cost of lives in the forest of death making no sense).most people wouldn't willingly use their comrades as a sacrifice for a summoning technique. but it made sense for orochimaru to use it as a cheap overpowered summon.
>>291579038>black zetsu attaches to obito during the rinne rebirth>detaches after the justu to tell kakashi and minato he's taking the rinnegan >reattaches to obito>minato and kakashi stand still staring at him the entire time
>>291591193turn based mechanics
Who did Kabuto sacrifice for his edo army?
>>291591536millions of white zetsu niggas
>>291587537The Chūnin Exams are illogical. “Let’s show off our SECRET Jutsus. ” Anyone could sell that information, like Orochimaru, who infiltrated Konoha and gathered intel on its ninjas. I also don’t like the tournament format. It would be much better if it were based on Kishimoto’s ideas for the series. All things considered, I’m not in favor of the changes the editors made to the series. My problem is this “kung fu flick” style of writing. Overcoming techniques is just lame. I like the thematic element they can bring, like Gaara’s sand being a shell that protects him from outsiders. It works well for his character arc. Yes, of course not everything needs to be dramatic. Like, Kiba’s technique shouldn’t have a sad backstory or anything like that. But it also shouldn’t be a crutch. Because that brings all kinds of problems, like the author bending the rules in “Itachi vs. Kabuto” to favor one character. If it’s used to benefit the character or for storytelling in some way, fine. I prefer “show, don’t tell. ” I don’t need chapters filled with useless information. The JJK anime does that.
>>291591583>“Let’s show off our SECRET Jutsus. ”only allied nations participated. how is both of their genins becoming stronger or dying a bad thing?>Anyone could sell that information, like Orochimarureally bro you think Orochimaru cares about some genin jutsu? lmaothe chunin exams are the most lore accurate part in the story. you realize that realistically the greatest Sharingan power was their copy ability and insight, things like Amaterasu and stupid powerups are only made possible because asspulls and excuses about why this character is not blind since chapter 1
>>291577881>I am Madaras will>But only for a little while until the author changes his mind because he made Madara too OP and needs to replace him with a weaker opponent
>>291591938The very same allied nation that invaded Konoha. And have you heard of “rogue agents”? In that tournament, a lot of people had reasons to betray Konoha. I feel like the Mist Village’s bloody tournament is the right way to go about it. Does it make the protagonists look like assholes? Yes, but it’s better than being crippled for life and still getting killed because your leaders are crazy and incompetent.
>>291592094>The very same allied nation that invaded Konoha.Orochimaru (Rogue Ninja of the Leaf) killed their Kazekage and used their village for his motives. it was all Hiruzen's fault for letting Orochimaru make human experiments, but this is what made the series realistic, the Mist Village way of doing thing is not economically sound, all those future wagies dead for nothing. Ninjas made business like anyone else and were employed to carry out missions for their superiors, those leaders aren't crazy they're just using people for their benefit
Madara is the shittiest antagonist ever, nothing about him makes any sense
>>291587066>It's lame when the writer actually cares about creating a balanced, logical power system and doesn't turn everything into a senseless DBZ-styled shit flinging contest You're just retarded, then.
>>291589450Obligatory pic related
Shameless bump
>>291577950how does he absorb it without rinnegan
>>291593241he has that ability
the funnycanon funnycomfy
>>291593296>>291593296A genuine question.
>>291577758>NarutoWhat year is this?
>Tsunade>Hinata>SamuiGod I fucking love massively-stacked Naruto girls
>>291594394So do I, so do I. Kishi loved giving character's iconic weaponry they never actually used.
Chapter 658: Biju vs. Madara...!!
>>291596739>Rock lee in the cover like he's relevant
>>291596779>Obito gets a design upgrade but Sasuke is still stuck in his hebi portraitObito might be Kishi's 3rd husbando.
>>291596800Fuck Team GuyPLEASE CARE ABOUT INOSHIKACHO
>>291580343>Blind Madara tries to blitz Sage Naruto>*POW* eyes bulging out>Oh fuck I forgot these guys were scrapping with 10 tails Obito just a minute agoInstant aura loss.
>>291596871>>291596886Holy shit? Has he always been able to pull this shit? How has Gaara ever lost a fight?
>>291596818these jobbers cope every 4th chapter and then gain hope>>291596871>>291596886oh this is actually petty cool. surprised we didn't see it in early naruto.>>291596886>>291596900>>291596930>tanks 6 biju hits (blind btw)>gets stuck in the biju cumno way he survives this>sand prison
>>291596886>>291596900>>291596917So basically plot armor.
>>291596939Are seals just useless? It even finished it's pattern.
>>291596871>>291596886Why not just blow his heart up?
>>291596886Why didn't Matabi just pierce Madara's skull?
>>291597005>>291597020So convinient that they let him do this. Another Shukaku bullet hell would have stopped this.
>>291596886>>291596900>>291596930yeah he's finished RIP Madarano way he tanks Bijuu hits without eyes and no Susann->>291596939HHAHAHHAHHHAHAHAHAH
>>291596962How come Naruto didn't attack Madara alongside the other bijuus?
>>291596989>>291597005>9 building size thing smacking him and somehow slices an arm>>291596900>gets smacked by 9 fucking monster sized trucks whilst being blind but has no effectI fucking hate superhuman modes with no explanation.
>>291597020If only Kokan destroyed the eyes....
>>291596886Should've used this against Kimimaro or Deidara, dumbass.
>>291597020>All the damage is immediately recoveredI fucking hate overpowered regen characters.
Remember when he said his perfect Susanoo rivals even the Biju?Good times
>>291597020>hotplug eyeballs with no offscreen medical jutsu/transferEven the Sasuke/Obito ones they tried to offscreen some sort of magic operation, Sasuke even had to be bandaged for a few days. What the fuck is this shit man
In this very chapter, Madara should've died 3 times.
>>291597074the Uchiha fanboys were ejaculating on their screens
*solos Madara*
>>291597117Just Hashirama cells.
>>291596871Hold on. The sand should still be in his system. In fact there should be even more after>>291596930he got submerged in sand. Gaara could have put more sand into his wounds.Gaara should still be able to puppet his body using the sand.
>>291596822The heck with Sasuke, Naruto is stuck from his first Part II appearance when he still had a little kid head.
>>291596939Ok maybe I'm retarded and don't know how this works. He doesn't have the Sharingan anymore, right? Susano is a sharingan ability, isn't it? How is he doing this?
>>291597020Now now Madara, don't be rude
>>291596871this is a sub deidara feat
>>291597216>Ok maybe I'm retarded and don't know how this works. He doesn't have the Sharingan anymore, right? Susano is a sharingan ability, isn't it? How is he doing this?Once you awaken Susano'o, you can still use it with just your body, even if you lose your eyesight or your eyeballs. Itachi used Susano'o despite his eyes both going blind.
>>291596767What the fuck is this dogshit cover?
>>291597117In this case it's Madara's original (sort of) eye.
>>291597330Well, isn't that convenient!I hate the Uchiha so much it's unreal.
>>291596833What happened to the bug bijuu? the 6 tails one or something?
>>2915969177 Tails finally appearing after being cucked from the group shots.
>>291597415It was a pain to draw so Kishi just went "uhh, it's flying around somewhere".
What an awful chapter
>>291597073It says it right there, man.
>>291597117Hashiroids. They are the answer for everything.
>>291596900JOBdara...
>>291597401To be fair I'm more ok with this one because we were shown blind Itachi being able to summon the Susanoo, so at least there's a precedent for it. What I hate more is Madara being able to use Rinnegan abilities like the Preta Path when he doesn't even have his eyes.
>>291596952Sand is fucking worthless eh?
>>291596939Kishimoto actually acknowledging Shukaku being covered in the same curse mark pattern that Sasuke had, and that was a relic of his design being made years before the concept of nine bijuu even existed. Colour me surprised
>>291596989This is so fucking goofy... their finishing move is slapping their tails? lol
>>291596989>Kurama and Shukaku always had a rival-like relation and yet Shukaku had nothing to say when Gamabunta turned into Kurama during the Chunin exams
>>291597020>can just plug an eyeball in his eye socket like it's a light bulb>can just attach a new Zetsu arm to his body like a piece of LegoFantastic.
>>291597653It being Kurama was an anime change. In the manga it was just a giant regular (as in one tailed) fox.
>tanks rasengan shuriken (explicitly said to cut on cellular level fucking up the target)>tanks 9 building sized tails slamming on him>tanks microscopic sand in blood>tanks amaterasu (by stripping his armour)>tanks eye surgeryHow far is too far?
>>291597020>>291597030>>291597407>>291597423Arigatou, OP!>>291597330>>291597502Itachi at least still had his sharingan eyes in his eye sockets, Madara can use both sharingan and rinnegan abilities without either of them.
>>291597743You ain't seen nothing yet
>>291597458Naruto couldn't afford to have at least ONE clone to lynch Madara while they were helping people?
>>291597734That looks exactly like Kurama besides the number of tails.
Wouldn't it have been easier to just beat Madara to death while he's restricted by sand instead of sealing him away?Oh hell, keep adding MORE sand so you can fuck up his body from the inside even more?
>>291596917Couldn't the bug bijuu just fly away? No Juubi after that lol
>>291598019Yes, but you see, no one here is smart.
>>291597423Thanks, comfy canon OP!
>>291598019>>291598046I always wondered why guys with ranged arsenal like the Tsuchikage (and also Nanabi) just don't spam moves far away in the air kek almost no one has air mobility in these series. Imagine Nanabi spamming Bijuu Bombs miles above, what could you do?
This is where the fight ended btw, everything after Madara being stomped by the bijuus is just Madara's delusion dream from a concussion.
What a great chapter
>>291577776closed eyelids should be convex if you're missing your eyes. they should be concave, sunken into the empty sockets.
>>291598210On opposite day
>>291596739Looking at this cover with Lee crying just reminds me how ass it was that Gai survives his 8 gates
>>291596818No matter how much you wank Madara, ~20k Shinobi with 9-tails chakra shouldn't just run from him, that's just dumb. >>291597005So, what happened to the sand inside his body? Why not restrain him again?
I'm now having the mental image of Neji and Hinata using the byakugan without their eyes, with blood potentially coming out of their empty eye sockets.
>>291596800>reminder that lee hasn't done anything, at all, except fight his clone in akatsuki arc I guess, since Kimimaro """fight""", and before that it was his first fight ever if you don't count handing Sasuke his ass, versus Gaara, his one and only real fightwhat a fucking bore, there wasn't ONE time Lee could have looked cool kicking someone? Mr. Hard Worker? Hello, Kishi?
>>291596809I can't read moon runes.
>>291596900lmao an entire page dedicated to Madara pinball
>>291596923>posting a better manga mid dumpHoly mogging
>>291596974seems a bit gay
>>291596939should have stuck with tailed beast 'beat the shit outta that nigga' no jutsu
>>291597005>>291597020As dumb as the story is for doing its best impression of a turn based JRPG, Madara taking the eye from Zetsu by cutting off the arm is pretty cool.Wait a minute, wasn't it black Zetsu that took the eye from Obito?I don't think I ever really pieced together how Zetsu is supposed to work.
>>291597074Even in sage mode it seems stupid, do you think sage Naruto/Minato/Jiraiya could just tank all that shit?
>>291598609>do you think sage Naruto/Minato/Jiraiya could just tank all that shit?I guess? Characters always feel as tanky and strong as they need to be when using sage mode.>>291598346>versus Gaara, his one and only real fightWhich he lost, mind you.
>>291597005TANKED LMAO
>>291598346>Lee kicking Edo Madara's body in half while he wasn't even trying to dodge and while Lee was powered up by the nine tails cloak which completely goes against his whole "muh hard work" schtickHere are your crumbs.
>>291597117>>291597480>>291597170That's the funny part about this, if Kishimoto wasn't a lazy shit and actually drew some really cool looking spread showing Hashi cells doing their work, people would accept it a lot more. It'd still be stupid but it'd look convincing enough. Instead we get plug and play.
>>291597372The only issue is Naruto being shoehorned into it as he always is, I like that we have Guy's dad on it.
>>291598592white ones are clones of the black one.
>>291598741And how many black ones are there?
>>291598714>Guy's dadUseless dogshit character that didn't need to exist in the manga.
>>291597151>dub farmer survives the 1200 power level-thrown raditz's bulletwhat was his power level?
>>291598782I think he's a nice way to show how strong the gate of death makes you even if you are completely useless sack of shit. That being said, if you are capable of opening the eigth gate, you should be a somewhat capable shinobi, so that doesn't really make all that much sense.
>>291598642>I guess? Characters always feel as tanky and strong as they need to be when using sage mode.As tanky as the plot requires Sometimes they just get cut and hurt. Naruto being burned by Madara's basic Katon last chapter was also weird. It just werks. It's just Madara's gigachad genes.>>291598782He didn't even have enough screentime to call him a good or a bad character, why are you so performative in your... "criticism"? I feel like these threads are full of schizos. I think he's different enough from Guy that he was executed decently and unlike Guy or even Lee he was an actual underdog, he doesn't get to be Madara tier with his 8 gates.Anyway, lol @ "the dad didn't need to exist". Man, lunatics.
>>2915988355
>>291597734how about the retcon that the shukaku we see today is mouthy as fuck and upon release in the crumbling leaf arc should probably have been trash talking all these puny humans
Madara have plot armor here
>>291596939of course he just does this. if he didn't have sus than it would have been some shit like "sand doesn't work on senjutsu" or some shit.>>291596974>stack tailsyeah that will work after he just tanked 6 punches>>291597005wtf that actually shattered sus and cut his arm off?>>291597020nagatos other eye? what even happened to nagato. I genuinely forgot what happened to him after he got resed.
>>291577938The comedic part about this war is about to begin.
>>291598849>He didn't even have enough screentime to call him a good or a bad character, why are you so performative in your... "criticism"? Because the only reason he exists in the story is to pad out time with more flashbacks for a character that doesn't need a backstory whatsoever during what should be an extremely important and decisive fight. You could've just left Guy's past be "he was a loser who was only good at taijutsu like Lee" without showing any of his flashbacks and absolutely nothing about him or the story would change. You didn't need to know that his dad was also a weird deluded loser who thanked people that were making fun of him in order to get hyped at him using the 8 gates to fight Madara.Genuinely speaking, how are you too retarded to understand that? There are a lot of stupid people itt, but you genuinely sound like a braindead moron even by these threads' standards, kek.
>>291598892He didn't even react to seeing the ninetails back then.
>>291598997>I genuinely forgot what happened to him after he got resed.His corpse was hidden by the paper lady, and Obito went to kill her to take his rinnegan that was still in that corpse's skull. The edo tensei Nagato was sealed by Itachi's plot sword. And as we see with Madara, edo tenseis can have rinnegans even though their real rinnegans are still around.
>>291599049Not that guy, but you don't "need" anything in any story. You can always just have a narrator sum up everything the reader is supposed to know. But it's cool to see this kind of stuff.Naruto is a terrible manga, mind you, but you are a bit too infatuated with the idea of hating it.
>>291598849>Anyway, lol @ "the dad didn't need to exist".I'm pretty sure he just meant Guy's dad didn't need to appear in the story to serve as motivation in Guy's flashbacks, who functioned just fine as a character without him, not that Guy literally didn't need to have a dad. You sound like a dumb ESLtard.
>>291599216>>291599049>it's the "dogshit braindead retard" ESL once againLike clockwork.
>>291599239What?
>>291599254Huh?
>>291599276I'm not your boogieman, schizo.
>>291599156Yeah, I'm the first to shit on Naruto whenever the shit writing is clear or Kishimoto's art is lazy and underwhelming but it's really the first time I've seen a guy sperg out at something as inoffensive as Guy having a somewhat similar dad (except actual underdog who didn't get to raise to the top ranks as a young adult unlike all the others)
>>291599156>Not that guy, but you don't "need" anything in any story. You can always just have a narrator sum up everything the reader is supposed to know. But it's cool to see this kind of stuff.That sounds like cope. Guy's backstory doesn't serve any purpose, and it's not an interesting backstory either, considering it's more or less a copy-paste of Lee's. And it's fair criticism to say it's lame that you have to pause what should be an epic battle just so you could get to see the tragic past of one of the characters (and his backstory has next to nothing to do with the current fight, too). It's just retarded to say that this is a schizo argument or that you're infatuated with hating the series for saying this.
>>291599357See >>291599049
>>291599398>he doesn't NEED a backstoryAccording to who? (You)? Nothing is necessary. I'd actually agree and call it superfluous if Guy's dad was a mere copy but he was an actual loser, much worse than Lee, even in his adult years he struggled a lot more and he was actually mocked and shunned rather than told he should change his line of work. And yet he persisted with his own brand of effort, turning mockery into fuel and ended up achieving something worth of note with decades of hard work. If anything he's the actual "Naruto" people envision when they say Naruto is about hard work (it's not), he's the underdog who went through the struggle without any plot shield. I think it's definitely fine, not worth an award or something but it's okay, maybe underwhelming for some, maybe kinda good for others, but not worth all the vitriol you're indiscriminately spouting at basically anything while calling people retards and braindead morons at every single turn with the 4 English words you learned in your entire life.
>>291597020The chapter should have began with this so Madara isn't just using Sharingan powers while having no eyes.
>>291587884Madara managed to figure out how to absorb just enough Sage Chakra to enter Sage Mode but not turn into a statue on the fly. How? Because he's Madara>>2915794711000% Madara.>Grafted some of Hashirama's cells onto his body, has no problem with walking around the dude's face on his chest>immediately cums himself the moment he senses Hashi's chakra>never married or even had a fling, just spent his whole life obsessing over Hashirama
>>291597005If only someone just thought oh idk USE A TAILED BEAST BOMB
>>291597020>black zetsu splits off from his body, leaving him and a white zetsu to act independently from one another>it's not THE white zetsu we were introduced to all the way back, just a random ass one, because the original white Zetsu was randomly killed by Sasukethis is so dumb
>>291599369Dunno, I just don't remember it as particularly offensive. When I read Naruto (which I only did last year, not back when it released) I think it was okay to take a break from the tiresome war gauntlet in the boring wasteland. I guess I understand hating the flashback if this was still a weekly release and I just wanted the endless battle to finally be over, and in retrospect the knowledge that Kishi was forced to end at 700 makes every non-essential chapter feel like a waste. But I don't really hold that against this flashback, but rather against the rest of the manga being planned so poorly. To me it felt like a nice way to reinforce the true meaning of the 8th gate before we get to see it for real. Which is undermined by Guy not fucking dying, which is one of the worst things this shitty manga has done, but again, that's not a knock against the content of the flashback itself.
wait until madara pulls out the mangekyou rinnegan
>>291596989>raccoon
>>291599239>it's the "everyone who calls me a retard is the same person and an ESL" retard once againLike clockwork.
>>291599585The flashback is good and it also had Kakashi's dad telling him Guy might surpass him, which lead to the cool scene where Kakashi says his dad was right
>>291599498>he struggled a lot more and he was actually mocked and shunned rather than told he should change his line of work. And yet he persisted with his own brand of effort, turning mockery into fuel and ended up achieving something worth of noteThat's just Lee's character but as an adult. It's not as impressive or unique as you make it out to be.>but not worth all the vitriol you're indiscriminately spouting at basically anything while calling people retards and braindead morons at every single turn with the 4 English words you learned in your entire lifeAll I did in my original post was call him a dogshit character, kek. I didn't even put that much time into thinking about it, and yet you act as if I'm a super schizo for it. You exaggerating and acting as if I'm a lunatic just for using the same swear words everyone else on this website uses sounds far more schizophrenic to me.
>>291599654The flashback is terrible.
>>291599673>That's just Lee's character but as an adult.Nah, Lee is actually about as respected as every other random ninja.
>>291599673>That's just Lee's characterNot really. Lee was never mocked. Lee achieved things at 11 years old and had solid mentor figures to lead him. Guy's dad had nothing but blind hope.>It's not as impressive or unique I never said it was impressive or unique. I said it was fine.>You exaggerating and acting as if I'm a lunatic just for using the same swear words everyone else on this website uses sounds far more schizophrenic to meNah I'm pretty sure amongst the... 10 now? Maybe 7? anons that are in these threads you're pretty noticeable with extremely arbitrary/random vitriol thrown at elements nobody really cares much about otherwise (eg: >>291599585 this is the normal reaction to this). I can't tell with 100% certainty it's the same guy, but whether it is or not it's the same brand of being insufferable to be around. We're more or less forced to be around you due to the nature of anonymous boards but you don't add anything to the discussion, whether it's criticism or praise for Kishimoto, you're just a waste of time. I've wasted enough of my time.
>>291596800Ironically, Guy's presence made Lee completely irrelevant in Part 2So much for passing the torch to the new generations
>>291599768Which is especially egregious because Guy was introduced as more or less a joke character, as someone that Lee would grow up to be. But then we just don't see Rock Lee grow up because the person he would turn out to be is already there.Ironically, I think this whole Lee/Guy situation wouldn't be under so much scrutiny if the Lee vs Gaara fight wasn't probably the best thing this manga has done. Kishi kinda shot himself in the foot by making that ultimately minor fight one of the most universally praised moments in his entire manga.
>>291596924he didn't use it against deidara so, no.>>291597200gotta love the war arc where nothing makes sense.
>>291599853he probably didn't know lee vs. gaara would end up as popular as it did, and for the wrong reasons at that. "hardwork beats talent""
>>291599754Do you also think every post on 4chan that says "OP is a faggot" is from one single person?
>Lee has practically the exact same story as Guy>Lee relegated to absolutely irrelevant since the end of part 1>Guy just takes his place as "Lee, but stronger">Give Guy practically the same flashback as Lee before his big momentWhat was even the point of Lee?
>>291599921Yes.
very organic thread
>>291599754>Lee was never mockedIf you ignore his academy year and the times his teammates thought little of him then sure, he was never "truly" mocked.Guess he wasn't called stinky enough.
>>291599754>Not really. Lee was never mocked.Wrong, we see him get bullied at school for only knowing taijutsu. Neji was also being a bitch to him before the exams.
very comfy thread
>>291598592Black Zetsu and the eye are still on ObitoThe white zetsu went to fetch the other one
>>291599996Oh yeah, there's a bit of that. But Duy actually addresses it so I remember it more.
>>291597020Gotta love plug and play
>>291599620Don't bother anon, he's already been outed last thread after he acted like 3 different posts were from one single person even though they were less than one minute apart.
>>291599921What the fuck does that have to do with anything?
>>291599754>We're more or less forced to be around you due to the nature of anonymous boards but you don't add anything to the discussionI am indeed NTA, but I don't think you realize how hypocritical this sounds when you spend this much time screeching and crying over someone on an anonymous board calling you a retard or calling a fictional character "dogshit". And you clearly take this very personally to the point where it affects you emotionally, which is really sad.
>>291600308I like discussions to be somewhat constructive, and I notice a recurring pattern of the exact opposite coming from a very easily recognizable anon, which I reasonably called out. At the same time I realize I'm quite stupid to expect any kind of level-headed constructive discussion in threads like this. Most sane people left, I came back briefly but there's really no point in hanging out with retards. A shit manga like Naruto probably deserves shit threads anyway. Welp, enjoy yourself.
>alright it was me for the past 656 threads but this time it's a different guy I swear
>>291600213The fact that it is ridiculous for you to be this offended and hyperfocused on someone using vitriol and vulgar insults like "retard" on 4chan, where being very offensive and insulting is literally the norm. And yet you act as if it's only one person.
https://desuarchive.org/a/thread/282986493/#282986493
>>291600407No I think it's actually because you're always using the exact same replies and reactions to very minor things
>>291600407I'm not even the guy defending Gai's father, I just think you mentioned shit that doesn't fucking belong.
>>291598019>No Juubi after that lolHuh? Why? Didn't we already establish that the number of captured Biju doesn't matter other than it affecting the speed of the form changes/the flower opening by a few minutes?
>>291600503He still needs the chakra
>>291600503>Why? Didn't we already establish that the number of captured Biju doesn't matterWe didn't. You do need _some_ shakra of all beasts. Obito had one tentacle of the 8 and some 9 tail scraps from the Kinkaku brothers.It is a pretty stupid explanation, but you can technically fill the gedomasu by getting some nail clippings from every tailed beast.
how can anyone read this shit and get hyped for the new manga by this same guy after THIS, bort, and samurai 8?
>>291599156>Naruto is a terrible mangaExplain >>291600369>. A shit manga like NarutoWhy are there so many spergs who come into these threads just to repost some variant of this? It sounds like you're trying to convince yourself.Naruto is kino, always has been, always will be. Only teens in their contrarian "can't like popular battle shounen" phase get filtered by it.
>>291600588Kishimoto won't fuck you dude.
>>291600588Naruto is bad
>>291600588>ExplainIt confuses"mutual trauma" for "friendship" and tries to build an entire emotional core around that missunderstanding, which ends up being completely hollow. Also the writing is complete dogwater.I post in these threads because it's fun to poke holes into the mess that is late stage Naruto. I say "Naruto is a terrible manga" (or some variation thereof) at the end of posts where I am defending (aspects of) the manga to make it clear that I am not blindly praising this piece of shit, I am merely giving credit where credit is due.
>>291600588I'm the guy who "defended Might Duy" (although it was more about telling that one annoying retard to pipe it down) and yet there's no denying Naruto is a pretty bad manga.I'll make it extra simple, when you read good manga you're often pleasantly surprised. You read a scene and you go "wow, I didn't expect it to be executed this well". When you read Naruto it's the exact opposite, 9 times out of 10 you go "wow, that scene was very underwhelming, Kishimoto didn't really try did he?" or "another dropped plot point?"
>>291600565makes you wonder why the akatsuki had to spend days sucking each bijuu out of their host and killing them. they could've just sent kisame to steal some of their chakra.i guess it would still be fine from the perspective of stealing the beasts to prevent the villages from using their jinchuriki in the war obito was planning anyway.but the akatsuki would draw less attention to themselves if they weren't killing every village's jinchuriki.but mostly, not needing the bijuu just feels like a cheap writing retcon so kishi could push the story in a certain direction.
>>291600749>but the akatsuki would draw less attention to themselves if they weren't killing every village's jinchuriki.evidently it wasn't a problem LMFAO every dumbass village just let that shit happen
>>291600588 >>291600426
>>291600635His story already emotionally penetrated me.Look, I'm not even a Battle Shounen fan. My favorite manga are shit like Sangatsu no Lion, Fruits Basket, Taiyou Matsumoto's works, REAL, etc. But Naruto was an ambitious story executed well. And when it hits its stride (the whole stretch from Asuma's death to the end of the Pain arc), it actually distills the nature of the cycle of violence.>>291600661>It confuses"mutual trauma" for "friendship"No, it suggests its one way people can connect and understand each other, and overcome hate. >the writing is complete dogwaterHow? Some of the scenes with Minato and Kushina are literaly the most real parent dialogue I've seen in manga. And despite being a family man, Kishimoto captured the bleakness of isolation and loneliness so well. >>291600716>when you read good manga you're often pleasantly surprised. You read a scene and you go "wow, I didn't expect it to be executed this well".So you didn't feel anything from the aftermath scenes of Jiraiya's death? Or when Naruto meets his mother metaphysically?
>>291597003Everything is useless when used against Madara because he's a Dragonball Z character that ended up in the wrong universe.
>>291599587poder prohibido
>>291597020I haven't been reading, but why is him getting the rinnegan that he had for the last 100 chapters after losing them for 2 treated as a big deal?
>>291600831>So you didn't feel anything from the aftermath scenes of Jiraiya's death? Or when Naruto meets his mother metaphysically?I did. There are good scenes, I never said there were none, I said that most of the time you feel like something is missing, or something is underwhelming. The fights feel incomplete, the dialogues don't quite land. It's clunky and awkward. The base concepts are pretty good and explain most of the success Naruto had but the execution itself is... very shaky.
>>291600920>Extremely vague criticisms without specifying anythingHoly shit you're retarded.
>>291600831>No, it suggests its one way people can connect and understand each other, and overcome hate.No, it very much confuses it for friendship. Sasuke calls Naruto his "best friend" despite the fact these kids didn't even like each other.I'm not gonna open this can of worms here, because this daily is full of this kinda stuff. But Naruto writing, and especially plotting (aka how to get character into the narrative positions where the author needs them to be for the story to happen), are not good.
>>291600784true.>>291600831part 1 was great despite its flaws. part 2 just isn't as good to me. it focuses too much on surface level politics like the cycle of hatred. and most the characters aren't as fun. the world feels smaller and feels like everything centers around konoha or the current bad guy's plan who was secretly behind every bad thing that happened in the world.and the war arc and entire ending just suck.
>tfw you're always watching and Obito has not made a blood sacrifice for a while
>>291600967We could just start reading a few chapters together and point out how lazy the art is or how some dialogues are bad/stupid/inconsistent so you'd get my point. Of course there's also the low hanging fruit of criticizing the horrible worldbuilding, the thematical inconsistencies, the plotholes, the weird character writing that accidentally turns some supposed good guys into murderous scumbags and the other way around, the way some themes are horribly handled, how Naruto's speeches are mostly empty drivel... and these are all valid criticism points, but I think at its core Naruto sucks because Kishimoto is a bad mangaka which links back to my original point. You pick up a chapter (or even a volume), you read it, and you go "well, that's it?". Kishimoto can't storyboard satisyfing scenes.You want specific arguments? Just read the archives and you'll see a lot of chapter specific criticism in all of these threads.
>>291598019>Couldn't the bug bijuu just fly away? No Juubi after that lolI truly wonder what could be done against that
>>291600831Drop the larp dude.
I think the issue with battle shounen fans is that they overfocus on plot. Like "wow, Kishimoto retconned this or that power! What an asspull!" Like this post >>291583255 or the guy saying "another dropped plot point?"Who fucking cares? Stories aren't math equations. That's all window dressing for the story. The details of what the Sharingan does or how Guy's powerr works or whatever, that's all secondary to the actual core of the story, which is about a a protagonist with clear flaws and goals and a story which effectively elucidates the nature of cyclical conflict. >>291600920It's filled with great scenes and ideas though. The final arc meanders a bit but still strikes the landing with a great ending.>>291600968>these kids didn't even like each otherWrong1) Land of Waves Sasuke risks his life for Naruto2) Naruto's reaction to Sasuke's apparent death after the aforementioned3) Sasuke trusts Naruto to continue fighting and help protect Sakura from Gaara4) Sasuke worries about Naruto's safety during the Chunin Exam5) Sasuke gives Naruto his lunch during the bell test flashbackI don't see any strong basis for suggesting Naruto isn't good. It's unbelievably good for something of that length which was made weekly. >how to get character into the narrative positions where the author needs them to be for the story to happenSounds like plotfag bullshit, who cares.>>291600990>the world feels smaller and feels like everything centers around konohaAlmost like they're a major world superpower. Real life geopolitics center around the US, Russia, and China.>entire ending just suckHow does chapter 699 suck? Sasuke's speech was a great capstone to the story.,
>>291601053Everything you said is flimsy and unsubstantiated (and wrong). The art is phenomenal, Kishi knows ccinematic framing and paneling. >Kishimoto can't storyboard satisyfing scenesWrong. Turning the page after Itachi said>Every jutsu has a weakpoint. This jutsu's weakpoint*page turn*>Is me (full page Mangekyo activation)Is just straight up the apex of rule of cool you can find in fiction. Pic rel, another memorable page. The characters feel human, the struggle feels real, relatable and grounded throughout. It has memorable designs, incredible panneling, Kishi is insanely good at using double spreads as well. He understands humans, understands human emotion, which is precisely why Naruto was so good at getting people to care.
>>291601272I'm not even going to argue with you. A very basic example of "[preparing punchline] ..." - page turn - "[punchline] in big focused panel" isn't some kind of cinematic masterpiece (although it's fine and decent). Kishimoto can do SOME things right when he tries but most of the time he doesn't and reading a chapter a day makes it so much more clear. Good for you that you don't feel that way, though.
>>291601164>The details of what the Sharingan does or how Guy's powerr works or whatever, that's all secondary to the actual core of the story, which is about a a protagonist with clear flaws and goals and a story which effectively elucidates the nature of cyclical conflict.I think you're the one who doesn't give a shit about the story but the ideas behind the story like "the protagonist is this type of protagonist and conflict is cyclical" like that is the autistic bullshit no one cares about. The story is what happens in it.
Personally I really hate Naruto getting to meet his parents. It feels too much like wish fulfillment, and it takes away from the stuff Minato and Kushina sacrificed when they decided to throw their lives away, which included how they couldn't live to see their son grow up and Naruto never being able to meet his mom and dad.One of the things this series (part 2 especially) suffers from is how much it lacks the concepts of consequence and sacrifice. Nothing feels like it really matters.>>Pain's attack on Konoha killed a bunch of villagers and turned the village into a crater. Who knows how long it'll take for Konoha to recover if it can manage it at all>jk Nagato just brings everyone back to life and the village's structure goes back to normal after only like 2 weeks, literally 0 impact left by Pain>>Kumo wants Sasuke dead because he kidnapped and likely killed Bee>jk Bee escaped and is just fine, the Raikage will stop giving a shit about Sasuke whatsoever after the summit>>Sasuke attacks the summit, kills a bunch of samurai, becomes an international criminal and kills the current "hokage", Danzo>doesn't matter, all the nations will stop caring about him and no one gives a shit about Danzo because he was an evil scapegoat>>Sakura comes to the decision that Sasuke can no longer be saved and decides to kill him, foolishly tries to approach him by herself and can't even bring herself to kill him, meanwhile Sasuke has no qualms about ending her>she doesn't have to suffer any sort of consequences for her terrible decisions, she just gets saved twice before Sasuke can actually kill her, the series continues to treat her like a poor victim who did her best instead of a reckless emotional idiot and no one suffers any consequences or learns anything
>>291601053it seems like he's been ignoring the countless criticisms across these threads.>>291601164>I think the issue with battle shounen fans is that they overfocus on plot. Like "wow, Kishimoto retconned this or that power! What an asspull!"so i'm supposed to turn my brain off to enjoy it?tbf, i don't expect stories to be flawless. chuunin exam arc is my favorite but there's still some stupid shit here and there. but the overall arc is great so i can forgive some of the stupid parts.war arc has nothing good about it. the anime made kakashi vs. obito cool i guess?the problem with part 2 in general is that the flaws outweigh the good parts.some of the coolest scenes are from part 2 like jiraiya's death and naruto's following depression.but a few cool scenes doesn't make something great. there's more i dislike about part 2 than things i like. it's the opposite for part 1 for me.and i do respect kishimoto's work ethic and how he consistently put out chapters.but that's different than actually enjoying his manga.part 1 at least made it seem like all of the 5 great villages would be important but they hardly matter compared to konoha.sasuke vs. naruto felt weak to me because they barely had a friendship but the story keeps trying to tell me how deep it is and keeps retconning in more shit to try to make it deeper.asura/indra reincarnation is unnecessary and just muddies the themes.kaguya sucks.zetsu sucks.madara is just a meme villain.obito has poor execution and just feels like a worse written nagato, who i also have problems with.ch700 sucks for introducing boruto at all and focusing too much on the kids. the new character designs are iffy too.
>>291596844>Biju doing hand signs5 tails has hooves, is he just fucked>>291596886just grab him and rip him apart wtf>>291597020zetsu looks mpreg in that middle panel
>>291601444>couldn't live to see their son grow upThey never got to see him grow up>and Naruto never being able to meet his mom and dad.He never got to live with his parents and essentially got less than 10mins combined to talk to them (not including Minato jobbing on the 4th war field)
>>291600831Go away
>>291597020why does he even need the eye?he could summon Susano and dodge their attacks no problem anyway?
>>291601505>why does he even need the eye?Wouldn't you want to eat a bar of chocolate if offered for free
>>291601164naruto is a battle manga so the fights should make sense.
>>291601475He could do the earth style sign.
the same troons complain that there aren't enough girlbosses during the daily
>>291601444>>>Sakura comes to the decision that Sasuke can no longer be saved and decides to kill himthis never happened. she does it thinking about Naruto after he went to speak to Raikage kneeling and crying like a little bitch and getting punched in the face, she felt bad for Naruto
>>291601367No, Stories are about Ideas. Plot is just semantics. The fights and powers are part of Naruto's appeal, and they are very cool, but you could change all of them to just grounded real life military shit while otherwise keeping the dialogue the same and it would still work. The story isn't bad because you don't like how storng the Sharingan is or that the details of the powers or how durable characters are or whatever isn't 100% consistent, it's not some video game.Shounen fans tend to be Plotfags because they haven't read that much fiction and it's simple and easy to nitpick at random details in a story versus assessing the actual narrative structure, how the character beats are written, the quality of the dialogue, the art, etc. Its missing the forest for the trees.>>291601444>Personally I really hate Naruto getting to meet his parentsYou have no soul. >Nothing feels like it really mattersYou conveniently left out the part where Jiraiya died permanently.Nagato undoing some of the casualties represented Naruto's greatest plotline about love conquering over war, by demonstrating it, and subsequently the fruits of peace when Pain used his (plot-backed) Rikudo Rebirth jutsu to revive the village that he had just assaulted; which Naruto still remembers when Obito uses it and is why he doesn't try to stop Madara with Sasuke (that's what you call A-Grade detail).
>>291601554who?
>>291600968>these kids didn't even like each other.yeah well explain this
>>291601554Doctor, the patient forgot to take his meds again!
>>291601591that was clearly a kiss of death
>>291601574>No, Stories are about Ideas. Plot is just semantics. Which is why there is such a thing as execution.A bunch of good ideas doesn't make a good story by themselves.
>>291601628Hashirama far too low
>>291601474>so i'm supposed to turn my brain off to enjoy it?No, you're supposed to evolve your understanding of stories. Plot is merely the vehicle for the narrative and exploration of themes. "Plot holes" don't matter unless it's something that actually undermines characters or themes. It's of little importance by itself. The plot of Evangelion was literally random bullshit and it's the best anime of all time. Think about that.>>291601474>kaguya sucksHer defeat isn't the actual conclusion to the story. Naruto vs Sasuke is. And its a poignant, small scale conflict that encapsulates everything the story built up. Most of your post is quabbles with some turns in the final arc which even if they were true, are a minor stain on the overall story at worst. The ending is still great.>obito has poor execution I like the character in particular because I consider him the biggest dark mirror of Naruto. Out of most of Kishimoto's character parallels - which he is insane at weaving and probably his strongest quality - Obito was the one I enjoyed the most. I like the backstory of him being idealistic and rather kind kid who would help old ladies, and became someone Kakashi looked up to after his death and was seen as a hero, whose ideals were passed down to the protagonists, like Naruto, only to revealed to have become a bitter, disillusioned, spiteful, cynical who saw the world as corrupt and needed to be remade and passed that mentally on to Obito. It's a tragic hero angle which I Kishimoto succeeded at.
>The plot of Evangelion was literally random bullshit and it's the best anime of all time. Think about that.
>>291598688bro, it's madara the magical ninja with a side of hashirama the god ninja. you don't need any explanation
>>291601574>plot doesn't matter. it's just semantics, bro. who cares if plot details are contradictory?this is what you're basically saying.the actual plot and way a story unfolds aren't story details that we can criticize?plot and dialogue contradictions shouldn't be criticized? who cares how sloppy something is as long as the themes are still presented? even though naruto still does a sloppy job with its own themes in presentation at least. there's a reason why everyone argues if naruto was about hardwork vs. talent. poor presentation. no one can even agree if naruto was truly an underdog or not.>Nagato undoing some of the casualtiesfeels cheap regardless of if jiraiya stayed dead.most of the stakes didn't matter. naruto had to try to get over his hatred to end the cycle but most people he was upset over dying get to come back anyway? so, there's not much for naruto to try to get past. he doesn't have to live with the hatred of several konoha ninja dying.
>>291601574Naruto wants to be considered high end literature but then not commit to it and drop down to regular good old shounenslop. The critique is valid and Kishi brought it all on himself.
>>291601574>No, Stories are about Ideas. Plot is just semantics.the plot should indirectly show what the author wants to say, but the showing comes first and the ideas are secondary. you can present the ideas in Naruto in a 10 seconds clip about cartoon ducks, then you come and say "this is literally Naruto Uzumaki" and people will laugh at you
>>291601500>They never got to see him grow upThey see him grown up.>He never got to live with his parents and essentially got less than 10mins combined to talk to themPersonally I still think that's too much. He shouldn't have gotten to know them at all. And Naruto getting to fight alongside his dad in the war should be included.
funnycomfy won
>>291601750I don't need explanation I need GOOD VISUALS in my VISUAL MEDIUM you fucking retard
>>291601646Yeah, and I find that Naruto is filled with great, well executed scenes and ideas, and has some phenomenally well exuected arcs (again, (the whole stretch from Asuma's death to the end of the Five Kage Summit arc). Scenes like Naruto's reaction to Jiraiya's death or when he meets his parent are unmistakeably well written.No manga of that length made weekly is a flawless masterpiece, but it's definitelly a good story. Honestly, bandwagoning "le naruto sucks" to me at this point is generally a sign of someone who hasn't matured enough yet to get real media literacy and form their own opinions. They just saw that other (likelyteenagers) on 4chan use shitting on it as anonymous social posturing and want to hop on the bandwagon.
>>291601679Hashirama is kind of a bitch
>>291601836He was equal or even beating edo Madara though
>>291596939not surprised, he has like what 2^-1/8 kurama's power? literally a designated bitch
>>291601834>"le naruto sucks" to me at this point is generally a sign of someone who hasn't matured enough yet to get real media literacy and form their own opinions. They just saw that other (likelyteenagers) on 4chan use shitting on it as anonymous social posturing and want to hop on the bandwagon.just reads like you're deflecting criticisms because you don't like people criticizing something you enjoy.
>>291601628Hello again tierlist anonSurely revived Madara should be moved up to MADARA after the showing this chapter, he's probably just under newly transformed Juubi Obito
>>291601813minato coming back with half of kurama in him and fully tamed was some of the biggest bullshit in naruto.
>>291601834>>291601719You are a child.
>>291601834>Yeah, and I find that Naruto is filled with great, well executed scenes and ideas, and has some phenomenally well exuected arcshe says in a thread where Bijuus are playing table tennis with Madara and he acts like nothing happened while putting a dirty eye inside his skull like he clicked install on an application and the eye is ready to usenaruto's life makes no sense, he flips between always had friends in the village and he was hated by everyone and they wanted to kill him and hated him. you WANT naruto to be good but anyone who can think critically about the series knows it's crap
>>291601752>this is what you're basically saying.Absolutely. Unless your story is significantly actually about "rules"-based conflicts (like Kaiji or HxH), its all semantics. Whether the Sharingan was originally planned to be able to summon chakra-kaijus doesn't innately make the story any worse or bettter.>naruto still does a sloppy job I've never seen a convincing argument about this, unless it's from some tard who mistakenly thought the story was about "hard work vs genetics" because of a Rock Lee subplot.>naruto had to try to get over his hatred to end the cycle but most people he was upset over dying get to come back anyway? Naruto overcoming hatred was never dependent on everyone he lost staying dead; it was about how he chose to respond to suffering, loss, and the possibility of repeating the same cycle that created them. The revival doesn't erase Naruto's grief, the destruction of Konoha, or the moral dilemma he faced when confronting Nagato. Naruto had already experienced loss, including Jiraiya's death, and had to confront the fact that the person responsible was himself a victim of the same hatred Naruto was trying to overcome. Crucially, Naruto made the decision to spare Nagato and seek peace before Nagato revived the villagers, so his moral growth wasn't contingent on getting everyone back. The revival was Nagato's own act of atonement, not a reward Naruto demanded for choosing forgiveness. And even if the villagers had stayed dead, Naruto's decision would still have been the same: he refused to perpetuate the cycle of revenge despite having every reason to hate Pain. Saying the stakes don't matter because some characters return confuses the physical consequences of a conflict with its thematic consequences. Konoha was devastated, Jiraiya remained dead, and Naruto still had to live with the knowledge that peace required him to resist the very hatred that his suffering made understandable.
>>291601926I guess. It just makes no sense at all. Feels like he only looks strong because everyone is gassed out and Kishi loves the Uchiha oh so much.
>>291601763>Naruto wants to be considered high end literatureWhere? It's a genre action manga. And the line between genre works and "high end literature" is overstated by pseuds anyway. It's a high-tier action shounen with actual themes that it commits to, not slop. It's thematically coherent from start to finish, addresses legitimately tough questions, probably has the biggest flock of memorable antagonists whose motives you can't find a whole lot of fault in, has ridiculously good art for being weekly (especially the clean as fuck spreads until the very end), makes itself feel like an actual journey through the lives of a whole people and had an insanely satisfying conclusion.
>>291602012>Naruto overcoming hatred was never dependent on everyone he lost staying dead; it was about how he chose to respond to suffering, loss, and the possibility of repeating the same cycle that created them.Anon's point was that it was pretty easy for Naruto to choose the right path when the only thing he had to endure was losing Jiraiya.
>>291602069>Where? It's a genre action manga. And the line between genre works and "high end literature" is overstated by pseuds anyway.The action in Naruto is also dogshit 90% of the time.
>>291602087and let's not forget that naruto is supposed to be morally superior to sasuke when naruto doesn't even have to live with the same kind of loss every day.
>>291602069You'd be making excellent point if you were talking about Dragon Ball instead of Naruto.I can could on 1 hand the fights in Naruto with genuine good action.
>>291602012again you are only discussing the themes and ideas instead of what actually happened. when Nagato makes him lose his mind his parents are there to help him and that also means previously there was no danger because his father could intervene and save him from consequences, then Nagato conveniently revives everyone so he can be seen as a hero and don't face any consequence? so according to you the idea is that nepotism always wins in the end and if you don't have a special family you can't become a hero. This is the logic behind the story that is shown
>>291601994The final arc has some meandering but hits its stride after Kaguya's defeat, everything from that point on is phenomenal. Importantly, striking the landing solidified its story even if there was a weaker stretch.>naruto's life makes no sense, he flips between always had friends in the village and he was hated by everyone and they wanted to kill him and hated himYou are confusing Naruto being mistreated by the village, having individual people who cared about him, and eventually earning widespread recognition as if those things cannot coexist. They can, and that's precisely what makes his childhood tragic. Naruto was not necessarily hated by every single person in Konoha at every moment, nor does the story require every villager to have wanted him dead. The villagers' treatment of him was shaped by their fear and resentment of the Nine-Tails, and much of his suffering came from being ostracized, ignored, and treated as a monster rather than from everyone literally trying to murder him. >anyone who can think critically about the series knows it's crapI've never seen a media literate person who thinks it's bad, on the contrary, its mostly bandwagoning teens who just joined 4chan that see attacking the popualr thing as some kind of cool guy social status symbol.
>>291602012naruto tries to implement rules but fails. it implements chakra nature strengths and weaknesses like lightning doing well against ground, which you can see with sasuke getting through gaara's sand defense with his chidori, and then later on it shows gaara tanking ay's lightning kick with his sand.
>>291602235>I've never seen a media literate person who thinks it's bad,You live in a bubble
>>291602235>I've never seen a media literate person who thinks it's badwhat does this even mean?
>>291601936Definitely. It's like Kishi wanted the final villain to be something that requires Kurama to be extracted out of Naruto's, but at the same time he didn't want to remove Naruto's 9 tails powers because he just got a new form that requires Kurama. And he didn't even have the guts to kill off Bee. Just an all around mess.
>>291602012does naruto being the child of prophecy destined to save the world not muddy how the chuunin exams were trying to say that anyone could change their "fate"? like naruto being born a monster everyone hated but he put the work in to get recognized and change his monster status.but also, naruto was always destined to save the world so it would follow that everyone would like him for that anyway.
>>291602106This argument argument falls apart because Jiraiya's death wasn't the only suffering Naruto endured, and Naruto choosing not to perpetuate hatred wasn't an easy decision simply because he ultimately made the right one. Naruto grew up ostracized by his village, struggled for years to earn recognition, and repeatedly experienced the pain of losing people or being unable to protect them. >>291602166I never made any points about its action though, just that it's an action manga and that it has a good story. Dragon Ball does not even have a story.>>291602233Buddy, your posts are barely decipherable now. >>291602303>naruto tries to implement rulesPartially, but it's also just using fights as rule-of-cool vehicles to bridge or encapsulate the story or character points. Its not some kind of "game-based" story like Kaiji (or some HxH arcs) that hinges on how consistent the rules are.>>291602344Go back and read my posts. Particularly >>291601164Shounen fans are plotfags and are obsessed with treating stories like video games. Some of the most telling buzzwords are "stakes", "plot holes", etc. These are media illiterate people and most of them are still teenagers who think hating on the popular thing makes them mature or allows them to fit in.
>>291602344He's doing the anime version of "you need a high IQ to understand Rick and Morty".
>>291602450First quote was meant to be for >>291602087
>>291596871How does anyone ever possibly survive this? You can't even bullshit it with raiton like Sasuke did with Deidara
>>291602235>The villagers' treatment of him was shaped by their fear and resentment of the Nine-Tails, and much of his suffering came from being ostracized, ignored, and treated as a monster rather than from everyone literally trying to murder him.and then Ibiki looks at his test and says "damn what an interesting guy he passed my exams being so stupid" and Anko doesn't see any problem sending the Jinchuriki everyone fears into the Forest of Death to die and kill people around, well what was plan B then, Hiruzen has to fight 9 tails? kek
>>291602450>Shounen fans are plotfagsi think they're battle fags, actually?retard. holy shit.and yes, the plot does matter in story telling.the war arc sucks because the plot sucks.
>>291602450>This argument argument falls apart because Jiraiya's death wasn't the only suffering Naruto enduredThen what else did he endured? Gaara was revived, the akatsuki let him sleep safe and sound while he was still within the village, hell, the village hasn't mistreated him since he broke Neji's jaw.>Naruto grew up ostracized by his village, struggled for years to earn recognition, and repeatedly experienced the pain of losing people or being unable to protect them.That doesn't sound like enough reason to make Naruto continue the curse of hatred when he was pretty fine with everything up until the moment jiraiya died.>inb4 but what about dark Naruto from the waterfallThat shit was solved in a single day.>Dragon Ball does not even have a story.Kishimoto genuinely makes Toriyama look like Shakespeare, unironically.
Is this a troll? Are we being raided?
>What matters is the concept and themes rather than how they unfold!I guess GT was actually good too.
>>291602606>Then what else did he endured? He spent his childhood ostracized by his village, grew up without parents, was treated as a monster because of something he had no control over, and spent years desperately seeking acknowledgment from people who rejected him. The fact that he didn't respond to that suffering by embracing hatred doesn't mean his suffering was insignificant.And that's literally the point of the parallel between Naruto and Sasuke. They're characters who experience profound loneliness and pain but respond to it differently. Sasuke internalizes his hatred and becomes consumed by revenge, whereas Naruto finds meaning through his bonds with other people and refuses to let his pain define his entire worldview. Their experiences don't need to be identical for that contrast to work.I'm not sure you have a remaining point and your English is barely legible. This is basically emblematic of the average Naruto "critic", lmao.
>>291596974Surely it would be better to use tailed beast balls.
>>291601719obito falls flat because he just seems obsessed with rin. he would be better if it showed more of his grievances with the whole world.also, i don't like how he is a mastermind type of villain who was behind several bad things all along. like puppeteering the mizukage to make the mist village fucked up for no reason? what does making every ninja student kill their friends in the mist village do for obito's plans?i do like that his powers complement his personality but they also feel too op in a way that makes me wonder how he never just kidnapped naruto when young and hid him somewhere until it was time to suck out kurama.and sasuke is too easily swayed by him.
>>291602450>Shounen fans are plotfags and are obsessed with treating stories like video gamesyou literally defend that Madara can do video game style logic in battle because it's not important and "only plotfags care about that". make up your mind
>>291602344It means anon has never met a media literate person.
>>291602665as long as a story has themes, it's good, according to this guy. so.... yeah, i guess.
>>291602665No, it's mostly that nitpicking at random plot details like this >>291602505 has nothing to do with how good a story is. Again, the best example is Evangelion. The plot of Evangelion was literally random bullshit and major plot points were made up on the fly towards the end of its run, and it's the best anime of all time. You need more media literacy to understand that Naruto is actually a good story, unironically, spend less time in battle shounen 4chan threads and more time reading actual literary critique.
>>291597117>>291598688You're saying this like it isn't even crazier that he just plug and played a fucking arm.
>>291602692You realize that all of that is irrelevant to Naruto forgiving Nagato, right?
>>291602739Here is one person's assessment of Naruto:>Naruto is a good story. It uses a protagonist with clear flaws and goals to get its feet and then transitions into a narrative which effectively elucidates the nature of cyclical conflict. Kishimoto's been accused of just giving all his villains sad backstories, which is true to an extent, but the point is that there is no one who's just "evil". In Naruto, today's conflict was caused by yesterday's generation, and that generation's conflicts were caused by the previous generation, but they are not blamed. They simply have to acknowledge their responsibility and work to ensure their mistakes are not repeated. Here is a detractor's assessment of it:>and then Ibiki looks at his test and says "damn what an interesting guy he passed my exams being so stupid" and Anko doesn't see any problem sending the Jinchuriki everyone fears into the Forest of Death to die and kill people around, well what was plan B then, Hiruzen has to fight 9 tails? kekWhich of these two reads more media literate to you?My advice is, again, to spend less time in battle shounen 4chan threads and more time reading actual literary critique. Naruto will not change, it will remain a good story with a strong legacy. But your media literacy can change. I believe in you.
>>291602758>criticizing his it was okay to send the 9 tails jimchuriki into a meat grinder where anyone could die isn't a valid criticismtheir last uchiha too...i love the chuunin exams but the forest of death doesn't make sense in the context of naruto.holy shit, fag. criticisms are allowed.
>>291602758Anon, anyone who likes EVA will tell you it was good inspite of the random bullshit rather than because of it.>You need more media literacy to understand that Naruto is actually a good story, unironically, spend less time in battle shounen 4chan threads and more time reading actual literary critique.People who never touched 4chan in their lives also think Naruto is shit.
>>291602758being made up on the fly doesn't mean things don't have to make sense.a lot of tv shows are made up on the fly but still make sense.
>>291602758>random plot detailsepisode X: "Naruto? this is a random nobody from our village"next episode: "Naruto? watch out this guy is demon fox scary run he's going to kill us"next episode: "Naruto Uzumaki? he's a random guy with Uzumaki familt name who looks exactly like that guy carved in the mountain that we see everyday up there the previous Hokage, they both died exactly 12 years ago, he's randomly called the same family name as his wife."You have to be media literate to praise this writing?
>>291602832even the fact that in your webm they are discussing in the middle of the battle is stupid. They are complete strangers with NO ties whatsoever. He just killed Jiraiya in cold blood with metal rods. this is a man who participated in a war talking to a dumb teenager as an equal
It's pretty insane that "base" Madara can casually tank bijuu hits
If Naruto didn't need rules then why did Kishi even bothered to tell them to us?
>>291602758Asuka or Rei?
>>291602832"look at my eloquent manner of speech, I'm so intelligent" you're proving that your analysis of the manga is surface level, and you're a hypocrite by saying "plotfags" as a buzzword for people you don't like
Took madara one chapter to do what KEKbito took 658 chapters btw
>>291596900Each of these bijuu could destroy villages and are nukes BTWChuunin exams ending was about this btwLiterally who could defeat Madara Uchiha? And I'm not talking about sage of six paths rikkidou madara with the limbo hidden secret technique....
