I heard a meninist talking point the other day that's kind of giving me a philosophical crisis. I'm usually a pretty progressive minded person but this just dumbfounded me because I kind of agreed with it.The crux of the argument was basically that there's an implicit threat of violence or reprisal if you say something rude or offensive enough to someone and therefore you must respect that threat in social groups. ie, I shouldn't make fun of Billy's dead grandma or he might kick my ass.What came next is the person suggested that women in general are less deserving of respect because they disrupt this paradigm. Because we've established the societal norm that hitting women is wrong, women can get away with saying some truly fucked up shit and evade the threat of reprisal. Therefore, we shouldn't respect their opinions as much.Now like I said, I... kinda agree with this. It's kind of bullshit how catty and out of pocket women can act then retreat to "nooo you can't hit me I'm the weaker sex!" I'm not saying I want to hit women, I don't want to hit anybody. But they can certainly get away with more bullshit in the realm of social encounters than men can and that's a little annoying.How do I square this?
>>31107001Sounds like bs to me. I think the implicit threat for going outside social norms or saying some out of pocket shit is social ostracization not violence.
>>31107007Well yes, the threat of violence thing is an extreme example. It's very rare people are having conversations where the wrong thing said results in getting their ass kicked. It's supposed to be a metaphor for women getting away with more than men can because we perceive women as being built of more fragile stuff. And that is kind of true I think, as a society we tend to infantilize women and treat them with kid gloves when they mess up or do wrong. Do you not agree with that?
>>31107001>meninistStop listening ot made up nonsense.
>>31107016>It's supposed to be a metaphor for women getting away with more than men can because we perceive women as being built of more fragile stuffWomen can get away with more than men when it comes to interactions with men because men want to fuck them. It's not about being a woman per se, it is about being desirable to you. Women also treat men they want to fuck differently.I was a pretty ugly girl growing up and men were not nice to me at all. I got hot in my 20s and literally could tell men I was goign to murder their mom and fuck their dad on her corpse and they would ask me what weapon I wanted.
>>31107047Whenever I hear this kind of thing it makes me wish I could will myself to be gay or celibate, I do not wish to enable this culture of endlessly bowing to the whims of women
>>31107053>to be gayYou'd just agree with whatever dumb shit a hot man says, then. It's not any different.
>>31107016Why do you think it's acceptable to hit men? I don't condone violence unless it's self defense and in that instance the gender of the attacker doesn't matter.I think men being willing to hit other men is an issue, but I don't think it's an issue of society coddling women.Like the answer to the problem is "don't hit anybody" not "we should also hit women".
>>31107058Sure people show favoritism to their preferred gender but I can't help but think the scoreboard for people doing dumb shit for the object of their affection is massively tilted in favor of men doing dumb shit for women as opposed to women doing dumb shit for men or any of the gays doing dumb shit for each other.>>31107061I don't think it's acceptable to hit men, like I said I don't want to hit anyone. I also said that example is just an extreme one to illustrate the metaphor, but it holds true because I don't have to agree with hitting people being right or wrong in the paradigm, other actors already do and will behave accordingly whether we disagree with them or not which sets the tone for those interactions.
>>31107076>massively tilted in favor of men doing dumb shit for womenIt's not, you're just ugly so nobody is doing dumb shit for you. No shade, I was gly too.
>>31107076>other actors already do and will behave accordinglyBut this is a minority of violent men who already have trouble interacting with society appropriately. It doesn't make sense to assert that women are less deserving of respect because a minority of men think it's acceptable to hit other men?
nigger really said meninist...
>>31107001Total bullshit. There is no conflict between the "rerspect others' feelings" and "don't hit women" positions. They are in fact identical - don't hit people in their tender spots. And nit because they might hit back, but because it is one of the agreements you sign up to when you form a civilized society.
Were way past asking those questions. All that is left is the hope that we never start asking them either for you know... were regressing fast enough as it is. And women kinda arent doing anything to help their case either... You know?Nevermind just forget it. Lets just hope that we dont start asking those questions ever ok?
>>31107001> How do I square this?You don't. There are inherently fewer social restrictions on women.It isn't just the policing of speech through the implicit threat of violence anon.Women don't face jail time for many things which men do. Even when they do face jail time, the Jail time they face is also shorter for identical crimes.e.g. You get into a relationship and a woman beats you. It is ignored. You have no recourse.Women don't face the same risk of homelessness, there are women's shelters. There are none for men.Women don't face the same risks during illnesses; investment in women's medical facilities are far larger than men's.So women's idea of how society functions has absolutely no bearing on how society actually functions, in particular for men.Women inherently live in a safer, easier, more insulated from reality societal bubble than men do and they are oblivious to the fact that men do not get the same treatment which they absolutely take for granted.They have been protected their entire lives, don't have a male lived experience.You therefore shouldn't give women's opinions equal weight to a man's.
>>31107088>because a minority of men think it's acceptable to hit other men?I've been physically assaulted by all of my girlfriends. Every one of them.
>>31107001if you live in the ghetto or around nothing but Sicilians maybeif you live around normal homogenous groups like yourself then no, the threat of violence is not simmering beneath the surface
>>31110321Fair argument, I'll make a correction.>* a minority of people
>>31110667>a minority of peopleFrom my perspective it's a 100% rate.
>>31110704And we have lots of evidence for both men and women hitting other people. I'm not discounting your experience but what we should be focusing on here is "no one should hit anybody" not "we should be allowed to hit women because assholes hit men"
>>31107001>I heard a meninist talking point the other day that's kind of giving me a philosophical crisis. I'm usually a pretty progressive minded person "Meninists" are also inspired by leftist premises. Equality being good for its own sake, a lack of equality being evidence of (or intrinsic) oppression, etc. They just flip the script and find things they think men are 'unfairly' treated for. >How do I square this?Physical reprisal isn't the only kind of consequence possible. Aside from women shying away from physical conflict, they are typically very afraid of being social outcasts. Being a shitty person doesn't exactly win enduring friendships, and while young, attractive women might be able to fool themselves that the men around them like them, it doesn't last forever.If anything, though, women are less likely to be rude or offensive. Or more precisely, they are afraid of being seen as rude or offensive, so they'll self-censor to the point of concealing what they actually believe.
>>31110733>"no one should hit anybody"My point is that in reality this only applies to men, not women. Women freely use violence against men. The assault figures are far closer than most people suspect. So "should" doesn't cut it. It's an irrelevant utopian fantasy.Women live in a very, privileged position in society from birth and are completely oblivious of that fact.
>>31110303but arent all there products of patriarchy? like gender rolls, as manifested by sexism, can 'benefit' and hurt men- they are still bad. Feminists would aim to eliminate all the things you listed but you come off as anti-feminist
>>31107001Guaranteed, OP made this bullshit up himself. Go back to /pol/ doomerfag
>>31110992Anon...*Women* create and enforce patriarchy...
>>31110992>but arent all there products of patriarchy?>Feminists would aim to eliminate all the things you listedIf the majority of women who identified as feminist were in charge, all of these problems would be worse.
>>31110845But "should" is the point of the discussion. OPs assertion is that men should hit women. An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind anon. No one should be poking.
>>31107001Gotta hit women as often as possible.
>>31107001Always remember: the average man can kill the average women in a single punch. Therefore, men are already winning. Women live in fear due to that factThis isn’t something nice to think,tho. but it helps to copein the end, women can’t be equal to men because the average man is stronger than the average woman, and we need to actually acknowledge that
>>31107047sorry to hear that. if it makes you feel better, i would call you a retard and a bitch if you ever said that to me
>>31107061> Like the answer to the problem is "don't hit anybody" >SA’d you>”lol bro don’t hit me violence is le bad”
