>>10942403
it doesnt matter. people are gonna hate fat people and call them ita no matter what. just coord properly and ignore it. most people in lolita in the west are frumpy women (not saying all women at that age are frumpy btw) in their late 20s to 30s. it doesn't matter

>>10942403
depends on the substyle imo, but you'll basically have no problems at 17-20 BMI.

lolita in Japan has always had connotations of being a fat/ugly/weird girl fashion that "Stacy" and "Chad" archetypes laugh at so fretting about BMI for anything other than classic is pointless

it's more a matter of aesthetics and how your body stores fat than BMI. If you have a healthy BMI but your body stores body fat in the upper half of your body or primarily in the middle, the silhouette of dresses you can physically fit into will be impacted. If you have an overweight or for short lolitas even obese BMI but store your body fat in the hips and thighs mainly, the large skirt of a dress isn't going to make that look any different. I mean obese as medically obese, btw, obesity as a BMI scale number can occur in relatively normal looking people who carry their weight well and short people are impacted more by excess weight since it's a calculation based on height.

Anyway I think if you're not busting the seams of your dress or making the shirring plead for its life you're probably fine.

>>10942403
realistically speaking your proportions will matter more for "fitting" into lolita. you can be at a healthy size but if you have big tits or are very tall you'll have issues with sizing despite your weight, whereas smaller fattychans will likely have an easier time fitting into brand. on the opposite end of the spectrum you'll also risk having dresses look like tents on you if you're anachan-tier skinny.
as long as you arent american landwhale-tier fat and you actually make sure that your dresses fit and flatter your size, you should be able to avoid getting called ita as long as your coord is actually good. do mind that a lot of fattychans get called ita because they often try to squeeze into pieces that don't fit, use non-loliable pieces because they can't find/can't be assed to buy loliable pieces that actually fit, or have nonexistent fashion sense in the first place.

>>10942417

I was moreso curious on everyone’s take as everything seems to be called ITA though bmi isnt the best indicator, i’m very short due to genetics but as well bmi 17, so I should probably focus on finding not too long and baggy dresses. But I wanted to see everyone’s insight on this, I think the bmi 16 girlies wear it best but if they’re taller then they tend to look skinnier, so bmi 16-18 imo depending on height.

Just see a lot of lolitas that seem to be overweight which confuses me because.. I don’t even know how they fit first off, and two, it isn’t flattering.

I’m BMI 22 but I would like to go lower than 20 because Lolita always looks better on a thinner body

>>10942418
>as everything seems to be called ITA
I think you have to make peace with the fact that a lot of lolitas just look like shit, western or japanese or otherwise. outside of curated/promo photos a lot of lolitas are extremely frumpy-looking.
>I don’t even know how they fit first off
>a lot of lolitas that seem to be overweight
Measurement is king, if you're fat (asian standards) and small you still have a pretty good chance of fitting in burando without looking like a stuffed sausage. If it's coorded properly and it doesn't look like she forced herself in it then it's fine. Would it look better on someone skinnier/average-sized? Most likely yes, but if it looks decent on the fattychan then most people won't really give a shit or call it ita unless if they really had something against that person.

>>10942403
You're overthinking this. Regarding if you fit into clothes or not bmi and body fat % don't necessarily have anything to do with it. If your body measurements are the same or below the body measurements associated with a Japanese M then you're going to fit into most of what's available.

When it comes to being judged for how your body looks I recommend that you ignore what other people think of your body and that you aim for a healthy body fat % and healthy body fat distribution for your own sake.

Fitting into a Japanese size M =/= healthy or slim. Some people who fit into that size still have excessively high body fat %, apple body proportions, etc. Did you see Wonder Tea Party's recent video about the diet center?

>>10942434
for reference, what this anon is referencing as jp size m is around 86~88 cm bust, 70~72 cm waist, aka size 9.

>>10942418
>I think the bmi 16 girlies wear it best but if they’re taller then they tend to look skinnier, so bmi 16-18 imo depending on height


That opinion is based on your apparently quite limited frame of reference unless you really have thinspo glasses on.
A minority of people look fine at bmi 16-18, some others are going to look very slim or even emaciated. Bmi 16-18 is classified as underweight, which is what you say you prefer and that's fine but be aware this is a health risk for most people because statistically speaking only a minority of people are actually healthy in this range (people with a more narrow build), so a lot of people are going look underweight in this range.
It's not just height that plays a part in this but also body composition and musculoskeletal build.

>>10942418
This reads like anachan bait

>>10942440
especially this
>I think the bmi 16 girlies wear it best

and
>omg I have such a hard time finding dresses that aren't huge on me, why is everyone sooooo fat.

There's a 0% chance this isn't bait. It will follow the usual pattern
>post bait
>people get triggered and react like they always do
>troll says everyone who got triggered sounds/is/must be fat

The end, close the thread.

>>10942406
>lolita in Japan has always had connotations of being a fat/ugly/weird girl fashion

True and I think most people have never heard of it and when you tell them they flat out don't believe you because to western eyes "sizing is still too limited".

Even fat japanese women rarely have a bust over 110cm so I really wonder who, aside from men, is buying all of the 130~170cm bust maxicimam stuff because it sure doesn't seem like more than a handful of westerners do.

>>10942437
People that are truly healthy (in that they exercise often and have muscle with low body fat %) are also gonna be on the higher end of the BMI scale because muscle is more dense than fat.

>>10942441

I was just looking through the ITA thread and saw a lot of comments about weight, even one on a girl who literally looked average to me

It was just an honest question though I’m aware bmi isn’t the most accurate, but it can also be seen as what body type you deem the best lol, which would open a discussion on what body types do people in general find more appealing.

Though as I said, bmi isn’t the most accurate and I am aware as for example, body composition and as well muscle weighing more than fat, but I am talking about a general idea.

Not bait, just new to 4chan and don’t really know how to make threads

>>10942445
It'd be a small market but it's not unlikely for fat Japanese women to also have fatter busts (or carry a lot of fat on their bust) than the usual. Especially for the taller ones.

>>10942470
are you talking about this post? >>10941744 that's a man. also even if his body size is average the clothes are all way too small and short on him, he looks huge. the proportions are off. lolita is definitely easier to wear if you're smaller, but it's more about how the clothes fit on you than your bmi. there's even plus size lolitas that look good because they buy plus size pieces that actually fit them instead of squeezing into something unflattering.

>>10942470
>and saw a lot of comments about weight, even one on a girl who literally looked average to me
It's a thread for talking shit about badly dressed people and weight can contribute to a coord looking bad, like squeezing into smaller pieces or unflattering dresses/hairstyles/etc. (For some reason a lot of western itas will have shorter hairstyles or sad, limp hair that make them look larger, not sure why.)
Most of the posts on the thread also consist of western lolitas who are on average taller and have larger measurements than asian fatties, and will likely have to squeeze into pieces than their fat asian counterparts.
>Not bait, just new to 4chan and don’t really know how to make threads
It still sounds like bait but honestly the fact that you're actually announcing that you're the OP does make you seem like an actual newfag.

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>>10942470
I'll entertain that this is a good faith question:
imo
-body shape is far more important than body size. Lolita fashion looks like bad on apple bodies, unless the size of the person is small, they have slim limbs and always wear empire waist dresses which hides their shape. Still not great but I've seen a few japanese lolitas get away with it.
-body comp does matter to some extent. Some dresses have a very tailored look (I'm talking about some specific classic dresses) that will emphasize any pudginess/rolls someone might have when it would basically be unnoticeable in a different dress. Like with any other fashion it looks best if you dress for the body you have, not the one you wish you had.
-clothes that very noticeably don't fit well will always look bad regardless what your body looks like.
-lolita fashion will generally make you look bigger (with a few exceptions), if looking your slimmest is important to you then please evaluate how that works with your desire to wear the fashion.
-the ita thread is used for the worst of the worst. People aren't examining random lolitas with a magnifying glass, doing a small thing wrong will not land you in the ita thread, if you dress halfway decent you will not be posted to the ita thread. Being fat does not automatically land you in the ita thread either. If someone's outfit is bad enough that it belongs in the ita thread then sometimes people will point out the minor things as well.

>>10942476
I think it's rare that even fat japanese women have a large cup size or just a huge bust measurement in general, considering how they look and the measurements and proportions of japanese plus sized clothing. It's certainly possible, especially if they're considerably taller and wider than the average build but that in itself is a rare combination.
Most fat japanese women tend to have a similar shape to picrel

>>10942481
I was going to attempt to refute this but yeah, a lot of the Japanese fattychans don't seem to have busts over 120. Been checking normie JP fashion brands that cater to fattychans and even their largest sizing (without shirring, stretchy fabric, etc.) usually has around 63cm flat (~126cm) busts. Maybe there are a lot more western fattychans/tall busty lolitas buying Maxicimam and just don't post themselves wearing it?

>>10942483
it's either that or the production runs are just a lot smaller than I thought.

>>10942485
I mean the lovely size does always seem to be in stock compared to the normal sizes

>>10942477
Nope, it was a different post

>>10942481

Ah, I see.

Makes sense that body type matters more, no clue why I blanked out on that. Body type matters for every style of clothing to make sure it flatters you for example, empire waistlines not being flattering on big chested lolitas.

Sorry if I sounded retarded, I have been lacking sleep.

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>>10942494
Lolita is one of the more forgiving fashion styles for fatties imo. It definitely looks better on slimmer people but it's not impossible for fatties to look decent in it with the right styling and proper make-up and hair (assuming said fatty is not jabba the hut-sized, in which case she'd be fucked either way.)

>>10942494
I do indeed not recommend empire waist dresses for people with a large cup size.
I have this exact problem (large cup size, healthy bmi, good body fat distribution pattern, not too tall for most brands) and as a result things not only look different on me but the waist seam of a dress almost always lands higher on me than it should. If a dress is empire waist on the model I'm just not going to buy it.

>>10942503
And you show one of the worst dresses for just about anyone XD. The bodice of that dress makes even the slimmest person's waist appear more barrel shaped.

But I agree that fat people can look decent in lolita fashion. It's more forgiving than, for example, fashion that is very figure hugging and shows a lot of skin. But imo fat people have to put in more effort to look good in lolita fashion
to compensate for the fact they're fat. It's like they're starting off with minus points.

And like other people have mentioned there does seem to be a correlation with body size and ability to coord. A disproportionate amount of itas are fat. They can get good quality and good looking designs (meta plus size, AtePie, the afore mentioned maxicimam, etc) so there's no excuse for why fewer of them seem to have good taste. When I see plus sized lolitas that dress well it's always the same handful of them, and ime they're also never the ones that have terrible personalities/are insufferable.

>>10942505
>so there's no excuse for why fewer of them seem to have good taste
Price, FOMO over more popular brands, or being too lazy to do their research. Same reason as to why itas end up getting awful chink dresses, but now with less options available.
Also a lot of fat people genuinely have bad fashion sense. From what I've seen a lot don't seem to experiment with dressing up nicely outside of lolita and it really shows.

>>10942505
>XD
GO BACK

>>10942403
Just don't be fat. No one likes to see fat people in cosplay conventions.

>>10942527
this is about lolita/j-fashion, not cosplay.

16 bmi, small chest, under 5'4" is the ideal lolita build.

90-120 is the best, people with a little filling are beautiful.

>>10942569
Yes, you're going to run into fit issues if you're above a certain height and cup size.

Models such as misako and rinrin are obviously not 16 bmi, and are almost certainly within the healthy bmi range. This is not haute couture. Being excessively thin and/or tall are features that make it harder to model for brands such as AP and btssb, not easier, since they have to wear the M size with (at most) minimal adjustments. They also have to appear wearing them at events as well, where you cannot hide temporary methods such as clips (which is used for photoshoots of mainstream brands). These brands prioritize showcasing their designs in the best possible light, ensuring that the intricate details, gathers, and silhouette appear as they would on the average customer. Those brands also do not value or glorify excessively thin figures so there would be no benefit in them using such models, only downsides.
Brands like Angelic Pretty and BTSSB use models who reflect their customer base more accurately to create aspirational but achievable imagery.

or, wait, do you think we're talking about prepubescent looking characters in fiction instead?

>>10942574

The way they were talking about it sounded.. iffy, I fit almost all of the requirements except im bmi 17.2

But they went with it in a kind of fetishy way, bust and height will have some effects but the way they worded it is odd, as a height such as 5’5 would be fine for lolita IMO, and an average size bust could as well.

Sounds like they worded it in a seemingly “loli” way in the word lolita, I wonder if they’re one of the people who are on the cosplay side of CGL.

Though my question did specify which body bmi would look best, I did not mention height and they seemed to have gone in depth into it in a seemingly odd way when emphasizing the bust and height.

But we are on 4chan after all.

>>10942571

I feel like giving pounds is counterproductive, because height is a key matter which is why I specified BMI.

120 could be fat if you’re super short
Or could be super slim if you’re tall

>>10942580
right. at 90 i had literally no filling. so i dunno what this anon >>10942571 is on about.

>>10942580
can confirm, i am quite tall, so 120 had me looking like a skeleton dance understudy

>>10942589

Key example why height matters, id be medically obese at 120 while it is slim for people like you

>>10942692
you're 4ft 5in??? Obesity is a BMI of 30, and it looks a LOT smaller than people think it looks.

>>10942694

4’7.5-4’8

But you also have to take into account that you look fatter the shorter you are due to looking compressed.

>>10942695
You're an actual midget, lolita is not going to look good on you. Unless you're expecting a growth spurt in which case you must be 18 years or older to post here...

>>10942696

Not a midget, just quite literally unfortunate genetics, I am latina, doubtful I will grow from here.

I have worn some lolita dresses and they do appear fine on me despite my height though, just a bit longer than it would fit others, so height isn’t really an issue for me as they do fit relatively nicely depending on the petticoat.

Understand your concern but my height doesn’t really do much as I am still completely covered, it’s not insanely long, just more than knees which is to be expected but in my opinion it looks nice, I don’t mind the length.

>>10942697
You could try getting some of the "mini" length dresses or skirts (meta sometimes has these fully shirred skirts from their lucky packs that are at a perfect height for those 5'0" and below) as they should fall slightly above or around your knees at that height.

>>10942696
Honestly it's way better to be too short than too tall for lolita. I'm jealous of short anon

>>10942697
you'll probably have best luck with older releases-- some old dresses and skirts are quite short, so they'll be perfect on your height.

>>10942697
a lot of older AP prints came in a very short skirt cut that looked way too risque on most people but would probably look great on you. Stuff like toy parade and melty ribbon chocolate, and a lot of Meta from that era came in several skirt cuts as well. Probably can wear babydoll cuts well since the bodice length isn't going to be an issue with those.

>>10942718

Ooh, I’ve been interested in older AP releases so this is good news to me.

Thank you.

>>10942579
I'm 5'5 and it's okay but a lot of things sit a bit higher on the waist than they're really supposed to and dresses that were on the shorter side to begin with are more like miniskirts on me. I think being a little shorter is ideal.

>>10943864
5'5 is the worst position to be in. Too tall for the short cuts, not tall enough for the newer long cuts.

>>10942481
This is true. Sweet lolita is an inherently frumpy style anyways (classic and gothic are a different story), it's pointless to split hairs over who looks better as long as you aren't wearing anything obviously ill-fitting.
Height is a big issue too. I'm 5'9" and have broad shoulders, searching for clothing I like and that fits me is a frustrating task. Sometimes wearing lolita feels pointless because all my favorite pieces either don't fit at all or make me look like an ageplayer.