>Marvel’s original plan was to keep three major characters around as a "familiar umbrella" under which new heroes could grow in Phase 4 and beyond – Chadwick Boseman’s Black Panther, Brie Larson’s Captain Marvel, and Tom Holland’s Spider-Man. At one point during the filming of AVENGERS: ENDGAME, the trio sat together and said aloud, "Look at us, the future of the MCU."https://thestreamr.com/2023/10/13/mcu-the-reign-of-marvel-studios-nycc-2023-panel-breakdown/
>>143337713Brie Larson was someone Marvel essentially promised the mcu world to. She was quickly hated by fans, peg to third banana in her own movie. Now kinda realizes that no one really wants her character around.
>>143337713Should have recast black panther.
>>143337713It wouldn't be a bad team if they also had older guys like Thor, Strange and Ant-Man. Also they should have brought back Black Widow by saying that the one who died was a Skull.
>>143337916You can't recast him, that would be disrespectful Meanwhile white actor dies.
>>143337950But why Harrison Ford? Literally any other old white man would put more effort into the role. And grow a moustache.
>>143337950William Hurt was an old man.
>>143337713Where’s the tension on this team? The original trio worked because they were all alphas who thought they knew best. Especially cap and iron man. Maybe I’m not creative enough but I can’t see any storyline developing with these 3
>>143337943>they should have brought back Black Widow by saying that the one who died was a SkullThat wouldn't make any sense, and also look at how much seething the mere implication a less popular character like Rhodey being a Skrull during Endgame caused.
>>143337713Brie playing a cunt character was so on point that everyone hated her in real life will never not be funny
>>143337896Not really her fault. The original Captain Marvel movie made a billion dollars but then they got rid of everything and everyone who made that one work.The character was originally meant to be a sidekick also, and she worked well as a side character in the MCU. She should have been part of a crossover movie like they did with Doctor Strange 2.
>>143337985>The original trio worked because they were all alphas who thought they knew best.This was never a source of conflict beyond their first meeting in The Avengers, and that accurately describes Carol and T'Challa as well. Peter would be the mediator, most likely.
>>143337985>Where’s the tension on this team?>>143337999Captain Marvel was the tension. I'm sure she would have hone off at BP or SM the minute they didn't do something she liked.
>>143337997The idea is that the Black Widow we know was aways a Skrull, and she switched places during the Budapest incident where she met Hawkeye and became good. So the one who is brought back is the original Black Widow who is still a bad guy.
>>143338046That's even stupider.
>>143338021Cap and Tony’s mirrored character arcs and subsequent ideological battle was the entire backbone of phases 1-3. Thor was left to flounder. What do Black Panther and Captain Marvel disagree about on a fundamental level? After watching Iron Man 1 and Captain America 1, I knew the characters well enough that I could see where they might disagree about something like “following Fury’s orders.” Then, both characters develop further and end up taking the opposing sides position on following orders by the time civil war hits. What ideological battle exists for Black Panther and Captain Marvel?
>>143338008> then they got rid of everything and everyone who made that one work.Being sandwiched between IW and EG? Yeah, it's a shame they didn't do that in Marvels too, that really helped the first captain marvel movie.
>>143338008the only reason that Captain Marvel made a billion it's because of Endgame hype, along with the post-credits of Infinity War teasing her like she would be a big deal.If it was like, Nova in her place, it wouls also have made big bucks.
>>143338057I don't know. Rhodey being a skrull is so much stupider. Because so much of the stuff I liked about him wasn't him. As much as we complain about M SHE U, they literally took on of the male hero and was like she was a girl this whole time.
>>143338008>but then they got rid of everything and everyone who made that one work.The one thing that made it "work" was setting it up as an essential tie-in for the biggest movie of the decade. The movie has no legacy. Nobody gives a fuck about it.
>>143337950yeah I'm not sure why they didn't just recast black panther it's sad the actor died but the character was clearly the best received of the wave 2 charters
>>143338008>original Captain Marvel movie made a billion dollarsWhatever goalpost-moving reasons anons give for this, I'll still never understand the reasons for making Captain Marvel 2 significantly cheaper and shittier despite the first one making bank. With the Guardians story winding down they should've been putting Carol front and center as THE cosmic character. If they wanted her to break open the multiverse, then her second film should've been in the Negative Zone with her fighting Blastaar or Annihilus or another really big villain, hell I'd have watched her punch Galactus in the chin.
>>143338057Why? It's also just an excuse to keep Scarlett Johansson. It lets the original have her character arc while having a new one to start again.
>>143338149>cheaperif only
>>143338085Captain Marvel didn't had much of a character in her movie since she is just recovering her memory. They should have used the sequel to set up her ideals and inner demons. But they are stupid.
>>143338095Nah no one would have cared about Nova. Captain Marvel was a prequel with a younger Nick Fury, Skrulls and Kree. That's what made the movie work.
>>143338095>If it was like, Nova in her place, it wouls also have made big bucks.Richard Ryder would have made a billion on name recognition alone.
>>143338149Captain Marvel 2 should have been Secret Wars. Or at least be the prelude to it.
>>143338095>seething novafag
>>143337916>>143337950I’m still salty at not recasting>t. black anon
>>143337916I thought it was a silly move not to recast at the time, and that decision only gets worse and worse with time
>>143338238They could have made Black Panther into their Black James Bond. I don't get why they didn't just recast and lean into it.
>>143337916the real reason they didn't recast him was because Wakanda Forever was too far in pre-production to be pushed back, so they hastily re-wrote it so Shuri is now the MC.
>>143338272Exactly. Because who do they have as far as charismatic male leads go, at this point? Strange? Thor is about to fuck off just like Tony and Cap. Peter is owned by Sony. Regardless of race, T'Challa was their big male lead badass post-Endgame, and now he's fucking gone because Disney for some reason won't recast him.
>>143338272They were overtly solemn about the death of Chadwick Boseman. It's like he was a symbol of black liberation or something, rather than just a fucking actor.
>>143337896Brie was done dirty and deserved better than these movies
>>143338145>>143338238I'm partly convinced that Marvel made lemonade out of lemons. Actor dies, basically marter him as this Health Ledger performance of no one can replace. Chadwick himself didn't even like the direction the movie was planned for him (in my opinion they recycled his arc for Nick Fury in Secret Invasion)Meanwhile what they really wanted to do was put Shuri front and center have the movie be about her.
>>143338278That’s what I was telling my friends at the time when it was announced they weren’t going to recast. We’ve had 3 Spider-Men in the past decade but letting another dude take a shot at Black Panther is too much?
>>143338102They should strike a deal with Hasbro to bring ROM and the Dire Wraiths into the MCU. Cast Ryan Gosling and watch the money roll in
>Marvel Studios when Chadwick Bodeman died
>>143338306>now he's fucking gone because Disney for some reason won't recast him.The character of black Panther is is a position that has been passed down generations. In What If? We actually see other black Panthers. But now it's suddenly can't do anymore black panthers.
>>143337968Why do you think? MUH INDY AND HAN SOLO IS NOW MR. STARK??????
>>143338324She's trying to show off a lot, but her age is showing even more.
>>143338362Her showing off means it was Disney who are responsible for her wearing that ugly costume
>>143338337>We’ve had 3 Spider-Men in the past decade but letting another dude take a shot at Black Panther is too much?Considering how many Batmen we have, audiences would have rolled with a recast T'Challa, especially under the circumstances. What's important is keeping the legacy alive, and instead they've squashed it.
After Endgame people just want to see crossovers, as proven by No Way Home and Multiverse of Madness. They should have leaned into that and kept going with crazy character reveals. Have Carol Danvers get involved in a war between the Kree and the Shi'ar (featuring Professor X). Have Black Panther team up with Namor against Doctor Doom (featuring Sue Storm). They had so many characters and they are just wasting them.
>>143337916This. It was wrong to rob kids of seeing Black Panther again
>>143338308I think that's in part because of how seriously Marvel (and the media at large) treated the first Black Panther.Everyone involved acted like it was this massive milestone in Hollywood history, when it was really just another MCU with a good cast. If you want black representation in a superhero movie, Blade already blew it out of the fucking water 20 years previously.
>>143338348Did Disney even know he was sick? Did he tell anyone?
>>143337916It was a gigantic misstep and among the beginning of the end of the MCU
>>143337969Harrison Ford is TEN years older than Hurt, why the fuck would you replace an older actor with a geriatric fuck?
>>143338416Star power
>>143338149>cheaperIt may look cheaper, but it cost a hell of a lot more. It had the one-two punch of inflation and the competency crisis to deal with, as well as Feige loosening his grip and letting the inmates run the asylum for the past couple years.
>>143338416I feel Cap 4 is probably going to be Ford's one and only time in the role.
>>143338325They thought they could virtue signal their way out off paying a new lead actor x-amount million dollars. They were too tricky for their own good.
>>143338493They did tons of reshoots and cut tons of material. The director basically quit at some point.
>>143338325Should had chosen a more attractive looking black woman to be female Black Panther then if they wanted a female Black Panther.
>>143338596should have been LupitaHer ass was HUge in that movie
>>143338402Blade, being a vampire hunter, isn't that family friendly, though. With Black Panther, we essentially had a Black Captain America type figure. They're trying with Captain Falcon, but their writing isn't doing him any favors.
>>143338636>They're trying with Captain Falcon, but their writing isn't doing him any favors.They were using the same writer from TFATWS, it sucked dick and now they are reshooting his movie for FIVE months. With a new writer hired.how fucking bad was it turning out to be?
>>143338683The main takeaway from all of the MCU's failures over the last few years is that, in almost every single case, they had NO IDEA that the movies and shows in question weren't actually good. For whatever various reasons, Marvel Studios was operating entirely within its own bubble/echo chamber. They actually thought Quantumania was going to be a massive, well-liked success before it came out, and were scrambling after it came out and they saw the reception it got.
I know I'm not the first person to say something like this, but a five year break after Endgame could've done them a whole world of favors. Let the merchandise and spinoff material ie games etc generate revenue while you go back to the drawing board. Seriously lay down the groundwork for the future tentpole characters you want to lead the future. For God's sake, at least have something resembling a basic guideline for where the next few phases are headed. NO DISNEY PLUS SHOWS. They shot themselves in the foot so hard with those. Just diluted the brand and confused general audiences so much so to the point where no one cares about what's going on in the movies anymore. Not a single development feels momentous or significant
>>143338405I visited a Marvel exhibit at a museum that showed a lot of original comic art as well as movie costumes and props.The suit Boseman was wearing in the 2018 film was fucking tiny compared to the other costumes on display. He was already wasting away. This can't have been too much of a surprise.
>>143338751Don't forget they saw Eternals as an Oscar contender lmao.2 years later and the film flopped, was instantly forgotten and any follow-up is cancelled.
>nobody cared about Brie or her movies>Tom wants out>Chadwick.... nuff said.>>143337916This can never be said enough times.>>143337968>But why Harrison Ford?He wanted the role, even jokingly said that he's doing it for his ego.>>143338405By all accounts, Boseman kept it to himself.>>143338416He's been in several plane crashes, something that extends past his acting career.>>143338493They should probably go back to a committee approach so Feige can at least catch his breath.
>>143338769This isn't even getting started on the upcoming Avengers movies. Putting aside the ludicrousness of trying to stage TWO tentpole films in the SAME FUCKING YEAR, they're making the mistake of trying to escalate further instead of drawing back. The next Avengers movie after Endgame should've dealt with Sam Cap trying to recruit superheroes for a new team in the wake of AIM or some other global human threat. DON'T try and immediately escalate from a universal-tier threat like Thanos to a multiversal conflict, scale back and focus on establishing new characters for audiences to latch onto. It's like an ebb and flow, too much escalation and the audience is just going to stop caring. To think there's still so much untapped material for new Avengers stories and they're immediately jumping to Hickman material circa ten years ago. It's bafflingly stupid
>>143338917Secret Invasion would've been perfect for a smaller Avengers film.But Disney+ needed more content i guess
>>143338683I don't think they'll do him as captain America good. They really underuse Anthony Mackie. I really liked his character in Twisted Metal. There is a comedy to New Captain America they don't want to use. I was in a raffle and won his comic. The old Captain America represented America as a whole and told him don't pick sides, which New Cap did. So he pisses of sides of the country and gries to appease, and it's this game of never really appeasing anyone. Which again for the actor could be funny, but the show just makes the side he chooses to be right.
>>143338917>To think there's still so much untapped material for new Avengers stories and they're immediately jumping to Hickman material circa ten years ago. It's bafflingly stupidThis is generally what I hate about their post-Endgame approach. Decades of great comics material which they've barely scratched the surface of for them to pick and choose from, in fact, even more now they have the rights to the Fantastic Four and X-Men back, and what do they do? Jump right into adapting as much modern crap as they possibly can. Multiverse wank crap, legacy hero replacement crap, modern She-Hulk crap, Ironheart crap, modern Moon Knight crap. Just crap, crap, crap. If the MCU ever gets round to actually doing their X-Men, chances are they'll start off with Krakoashit and then build up to an adaptation of fucking AvX
>>143338917>in the wake of AIM or some other global human threat.Would have been hilarious if a bunch of science nerds in beekeeper suits use some gizmo to nerf Captain Carol to a more manageable level for the story. And she needs to develop relationships with the other Avengers if she's going to be a part of the team.
>>143338990But see, that's exactly what general audiences don't know they want! When infinity war was coming out you had so many people online scratching their heads wondering how they'd "top Thanos," if they'd go for Galactus or Doctor Doom next, and it's like, you really think normal people care about the stupid overarching narrative to these movies more than they do the superheroes themselves? The infinity gauntlet conflict was a threadbare storyline meant to string together a bunch of interpersonal relationships between likable superheroes. The conflict in these movies only matters in so much as the situations and developments it forces our leads into
>>143338987>but the show just makes the side he chooses to be right.Honestly, to the minds behind Marvel Studios right now, they probably think Sam!Cap swooping down to tell the politicians of the world "JUST DO BETTER" counts as riveting and ambitious politically-charged storytelling
>>143337713Resident Wanda complainer here to shake his head again at how they decided in advance, before WandaVision was finished, that Wanda was expendable and they would character-assassinate her to set up Young Avengers or whatever.Betting on Brie Larson as Captain Marvel was a bet that didn't work out, but it's so telling that it never occurred to them that a character who doesn't fit the Hollywood template of a Strong Female Character™ could be popular.Anyway, it's all part of a larger problem that the pandemic somehow severed Feige's connection to the audience. Robinson has talked about how the failure of "Quantumania" shook people up in Disney because they all thought it was a banger film that was going to be a huge hit (which is why they emphasized Kang so heavily in future plans). Feige used to know that if he liked something, audiences would like it too, I don't think that's true any more.
>>143339119I just find it incredibly funny that Marvel struggled for years to come up with a good, strong female superhero who could headline her own movies and shows, doing nothing with Black Widow until after she'd died and then absolutely fumbling Captain Marvel, and then when Scarlet Witch suddenly exploded in popularity across both genders with Wandavision, her very next appearance was her getting randomly turned into a villain before being killed-off-but-not-really for the foreseeable future.It's genuinely funny
>>143339119Man. If Clint had checked in on Wanda, and maybe done a miniseries together instead of her going mad with power, not only could Wanda have been saved, but it's quite possible they'd also save Renner's dick if he had been filming something.
Can you believe there used to be a time where everyone genuinely cared about end credit teases? They excited people, got them looking forward to the next installment because the developments were actually interesting. Thor's hammer at the end of Iron Man 2, Thanos ganking Thor at the end of Ragnarok, etc. Now Beast shows up in The Marvel's and it gets 3k views on YouTube after six months. No one cares anymore, and it's so strange to think there was a time very recently where everyone did
>>143339207>Now Beast shows up in The Marvel's and it gets 3k views on YouTube after six months.Gets even better when you remember that's the only thing which people even talked about from that movie
>>143339207because the post-credits used to tease movies that were already close to coming out.Now? it's just introducing characters such as Starfox, Clea, Hercules without any idea when are they going to show up next.
>>143338029>I'm sure she would have hone off at BP or SM the minute they didn't do something she liked.That's the thing though, they didn't, so instead of compelling tension between 3 main characters, we got aggravating tension between 1 main character and the audience itself. That kind of shit doesn't sell entertainment, it kills it.
>>143338008Cm1 is shit, it only earned that off IWs hype
>>143338324Squarehead
>>143338902Who would be on this new committee? Zeb Wells? Jason Aaron? How would the situation improve in any way?
>>143337896>>143337713Just recast with Sydney and pretend nothing has changed.
>>143338324SEX
>>143338100>Because so much of the stuff I liked about him wasn't him.You know him being replaced after Civil War is just a fan theory, right? He got taken after Endgame, which is where he conveniently stopped needing his leg braces.
>>143337968More marketable
>>143337896>>143337999Brie got fucked over. They wrote Captain Marvel as a total bitch and sent her on the promotional tour to reflect that by being "sassy". I don't know why Marvel thought that people would flock to get behind a character was so thoroughly unlikable.
>>143339606And it didn't help that they intentionally gave her a super baggy costume that didn't show off her curves. Luckily they did better in Endgame
>>143337950If you put a stache on him it's close enough
>>143339606Watching X-Men 97. Remember that Rogue's strength and flying ability is straight from Miss Marvel. Yeah, the MCU wasted her.
>>143339531I hope they ban Tik Tok
>>143339207it was the post credit scenes that stopped me from watching mcu films. the last one I saw was guardians 2. and when the movie ended I got up to leave because I couldn't be bothered to wait and I'd just watch the credit scene on youtube. I looked back in the theatre and saw everyone still in their seats staring intently at the screen. and something clicked for me and I just never wanted to watch another one of those films again
>>143339692are you stupid?
>>143339883Yeah I am
>>143338183It's really silly because the "Captain Marvel 2" we did get already felt like we missed a sequel, or two. They skip over this whole part of Carol's history and have it introduced retroactively as something she's still getting over. Why?Of all the "modern" Marvel movies, Captain Marvel absolutely feels like the stupidest dropped ball. It should've been super, super simple to just shit out another Captain Marvel movie without having to worry about the wider universe or whatever. Don't even need any other MCU actors around. But for some reason it morphed into this bizarre TV show crossover followup. Regardless of the quality of the original Captain Marvel, or any potential sequels, it's just bizarre this happened.
>>143339233It gets even better when you're constantly seeing people insisting X-Men is the future of the MCU and it's only hope of salvation, then you see only 3k people even care about seeing a clip of Beast's MCU debut. Once Jackman and Reynolds are gone the X-Men reboot is as DOA as FF is.
>>143339119>>143339172While I think Wanda would have worked as the MCU's "lead heroine" if they'd tried it, I'd have been happier with them just doing smaller scale domestic stuff with her and Vision, but they couldn't even give us more of that, they had to ruin her completely. If they ever even try to fix this it's going to be years too late, and she's got a small but very loud crowd of haters now who seem to post everywhere online.
>>143337713It doesn’t help that Tom Holland is sick of being Spider-Man and wants to retire the mantle.
>>143341496He's had a decent run. Let him finish his contract, and then recast.
>>143339670>Watching X-Men 97.lol cuck
>>143337916If they recast they wouldn't have been able to exploit the actors death with the funeral scene.
>>143338008It didnt work, retard. They just told the gullible mcugolems they needed to watch the movie to understand Endgame, which was bullshit and literally killed every sequel bait promise after that movie, because even the biggest golem was aware of how it really doesnt matter.
>>143338149>I'll still never understand the reasons for making Captain Marvel 2 significantly Its simple, unlike you they arent retards. They know the billion dollars was thanks to Endgame, not Brie. Plus all the movies in phase 4 were shit.
>>143338405If anybody at Disney knew it would have been leaked to the press to drum up attention for the MCU.
>>143339692They're certainly trying, Moishe.
>>143341496He actually just said he's totally in it for more movies, which if we're being ungenerous one can treat as the outcome of his other big movies not being the biggest hits.
>>143341900Romeo and Cooniet will save his career
>>143338769>a five year break after Endgame could've done them a whole world of favors. Let the merchandise and spinoff material ie games etc generate revenue while you go back to the drawing board.I don't think there's a bigger tell you don't know how this industry works than this.
>>143338769>lay down the groundwork for the future tentpole characters you want to lead the future>have something resembling a basic guideline for where the next few phases are headedThey did both of these, and still struggled.
>>143337950One of Boseman's last wishes was to recast his role, he didn't want T'Challa to die off-screen. Disney went and do the opposite because they're fucking morons.
>>143338769>no movies>no tv shows>use games to build hypeare you... retarded
>>143342140>One of Boseman's last wishes was to recast his roleThat's a massive exaggeration. They asked his brother how Boseman would feel about being recast, and he said Boseman wouldn't mind (probably because Boseman himself was getting sick of people seeing him only as Black Panther).
>>143337713seriously? they have to full CGI spiderman suit? fucking seriously?
>>143342206>(probably because Boseman himself was getting sick of people seeing him only as Black Panther).Ironic, he's now immortalized as Black Panther.
>>143337713Honestly, Larson rankles me less than Boseman. I don't think he was engaging. He had that cottony African accent down, and that was it. He phoned it in worse than the chick who "silent protagonist"-fudged her way through a debut eponymous movie.I'm sorry he's dead, I'm not sorry we won't see more of his work.
>>143340189>imageI appreciate it when children are written realistically. Some of them are perverts. God bless 'em.
