This was an interesting video to watch because it took a historical look at the many trials and tribulations involved getting books from Japan to America. But it became very clear to me that the only reason why Manga now enjoys market success and American Comics don't is the direct market (Comic Book Shops). People tried selling Manga through comic book shops, through magazines, none of it really worked until some dipshit from Los Angeles managed to get some weeb at Walden books to carry tankobons. Every previous time when it was a person from the comic book industry trying to go through the comic book stores, the effort died due to no sales. It had nothing to do with content.
>>151314007>It had nothing to do with content.Incorrect. Comic book shops were avoided because comic books were there, and comic books are only ever crappily-drawn superhero trash.
>>151314378This
anon they've been selling comics in book stores since before you were born, a large reason DKR was so big or why Arkham Asylum A Serious House on Serious Earth made Morrison a millionaire in his 20s was the bookstore market. The problem remains the format and that you can sell one big standalone story, maybe a few for certain characters, but they can't manage repeat customers. Big two tpbs aren't often numbered(and really can't be since crossovers interrupt reading order).Walking Dead and Invincible TPBs did well on the momentum of their show's popularity, and the numbered aspect is a big part of that. Part of what keeps manga sales up is the ease of accessibility and continuing. Popular manga also remain in print where as a lot of comic tpbs are one and done.
>>151314007>It had nothing to do with content.Whoa there fella. It's not as if content had nothing to do with it, it just wasn't the prime culprit. These days american comics wouldn't be able to break out of the direct market because floppies are stupidly expensive and even if you put them back into normal stores no one would buy them, just on price alone. Having talked to self proclaimed Marvel fans, none of them read comics - they have no interest, and they cite the lack of good jumping on points. Even the movies are starting to suffer from the kind of shit that puts people off cape comics, and for better or worse, when you says comics to most people, they think capes.
>>151314441>Big two tpbs aren't often numbered(and really can't be since crossovers interrupt reading order).I love it when people who have no clue what they’re talking about say stupid shit like this
>>151314007Yes but also manga are just more fun to read.Bigger panels, less words, more simplistic artwork so that your brain can register the information more instantaniously. While mangaka obviously take pride in what they do, there's a part of them that is also aware that it's a cheap and dispensable form of entertainment for most people, so they don't dare to think about wasting anybody's time , they just focus on the reading feeling seamless.Graphic novels in full colour can be beautiful and intellectual but they're slow reads and majority of people aren't gonna read a lot of em in their lifetime. Graphics novels with their hardcovers and dense pages are made with the expectation that you draw the curtains, light a candle, get a glass of wine and put on a record to read.Most manga is made with the idea that its a daily ritual and reading a chapter should feel like brushing your teeth.How often do you pour a glass of wine and put on a record vs how often do you brush your teeth?
>>151314641>Yes but also manga are just more fun to read. Bigger panels, less words, more simplistic artwork so that your brain can register the information more instantaniousyTranslation: manga is for dumb people who can’t handle complexity or too many words
>>151315036Isn't /co/'s biggest complaint about a comic is that if dares to even have a paragraph in it's speech bubble they go:>"WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS"And write it of as a bad comic? I was told by /co/mrades that if you wanted to be verbose, you write a book.
>>151315036If you've ever done a slideshow presentation in any context, you should know that the less words on the screen and more pictures, the better.People don't want to feel like you're putting them through a chore.
This thread is fucking stupid
>>151314378FpbpCape shit fatigue + women ruined comics
Don't care. Will continue to read capeKINO because I like it.
>>151315218>capeKINOHulk definitely doesn't have anything to do with that.
>>151314441Manga also tends to have a consistent creative voice instead of getting its artists and writers replaced every few months/years by someone new so they can keep milking an IP that’s decades old. Even something like Golgo 13 that had been serialised since the 60s had the same artist in it for decades until he died just a few years ago. It also helps that manga is actually allowed to end. If I wanna read something like Dragonball I pick up volume 1 and then keep reading until it ends. Yes you have sequel mangas like Dragon Ball Super but the original manga still stands alone as a complete work. Where does Batman begin or end? What about Spiderman?
>>151315376>Manga also tends to have a consistent creative voice99% of readers don’t care about such things and it’s extremely common that singular creative voice ends up doing filler or recycling old shit because after the initial storyline is over they’re suddenly out of ideas but the series keeps going. And especially in old manga like Rumiko Takahashi’s work it’s infuriating how much of it is just resets every arc/chapter and just regurgitates the same gags over and over without any true progression.
>>151315376>Even something like Golgo 13 that had been serialised since the 60s had the same artist in it for decades until he died just a few years ago.Saito worked on rough drafts for pages, did undersketches, and worked on drawing Golgo. Artists on his staff drew the characters, weapons, vehicles, and foliage. Ultimately, though he still had the final say on what was drawn before sending the finished pages off to be serialized in BIG Comic magazine. I think citing Saito as the sole artist of Golgo 13 misses the larger picture of his production, more so if you leave the fact that he's cycled through different writers in his pipeline, which included Kazuo Koike at one point before he ran off to write a bunch of crazy shit.
>>151315376>Even something like Golgo 13 that had been serialised since the 60s had the same artist in it for decadesLarge part of Golgo was drawn by assistants. Saito would literally just draw the main characters’ faces and everything else was done by other people.
>>151314007It's also because manga offers a variety of genres and styles while comics are mostly the same. And because manga is just flat out better.
>>151315036Oh so it's that it? You think more words means more complexity? What a dimwit.
>>151315376>>151315036You'll have to pull teeth to even get stubborn Burgers to admit that American comics completely fail at telling longer serialized stories compared to manga. None of the them have even read anything past Toonami and shonen shit so they think their mid-rate capeshit "intellectually clears" the comics literally made for children in Japan.
>>151315218Based.
>>151315522>American comics completely fail at telling longer serialized stories compared to mangaNot true at all
>>151315522LMAO!
>>151314641I disagree. I think a lot of people would settle down to read it if it was good. The problem is largely that they aren't good. Before it was subpar writers without life experience writing professional fanfiction about characters they grew up reading rather than creating new characters based on life experiences, juvenile squabbling and office politics, forced crossover events and tie-ins designed to artificially boost sales, editors that didn't do their jobs and authors that didn't bother learning the canon, and then it became that on top of artists who phones it in, and then it became all of that plus forced social engineering woke garbage on top of it. Really it can be summed up by saying Japan has a comics industry and America has a ((comics industry.))
>>151315460> 99% of readers don’t care about such thingsCorrection: 99% of readers don't think about such things. The results from them are what the difference, however. They may not know why something is good, but that is the reason.
>>151315480> And because manga is just flat out better While this is indisputable nowadays I've literally never found something that beats the Ditko run on Amazing Spider-Man. I could literally just read that forever. I wish he had been able to just write and draw that for 20+ years, it might have been the greatest comic ever written.
>>151315588>I think a lot of people would settle down to read it if it was goodThis is a flawed argument because if quality was what makes people read manga they wouldn’t be reading primarily Shounen.
>>151315150Obviously.It's the typical Mexican who keeps coming here to do his "Manga Better" shit he's been doing for over 5 years now.It's seriously pathetic, and his buttbuddy mods constantly protect him.
>>151315218Hulkbro being correct as usual.
>>151315522They're so insecure it's funny. Not as bad as cartoonfags that still think there's a competition, but still, manga is so much ahead it's still funny that they think it's a debate.
>>151315619That's not even good by comic book standards.
Are animefags so insecure that they have to constantly make the same thread over and over again?
>>151315627Shounen is good action. The world forgot how to do good action.
Manga has more variety. If I wanna read a romance comic, there aren't many western titles, let alone multiple choices. You have to go for indies which are difficult to find because they have no fanbase or marketing. Manga has every single trope and idea under the sun represented and readily available. DC and Marvel only offer superheroes and if you're lucky superhero+SOMETHING. Capeshit+SOMETHING is still capeshit, not SOMETHING.
>>151314007It turned out that this is a world wide chart and most of that manga was sold in other Asian countries, North America stuck with Popeye, Peanuts, Garfield (as well as Heathcliff to a lesser extent) and Disney Mouse/Duck comics (who are even bigger in Europe), South America stood by Monica's Gang while Europe never left home grown content like (British) Dennis The Menace, Tintin and Asterix.>>151314641>more simplistic artwork That is rarely the case (see Sazae-San, Chibi Maruko-Chan, Crayon Shin-Chan, ANYTHING BY FUJIKO F/A FUJIO (Q-Taro The Ghost, Doraemon), Ect.), most of the time manga's artwork is far more complex compared to the likes of Peanuts and Garfield.>>151314378There was a time when that wasn't the case, Harvey Comics will also like to have a word with you.
>>151315732>You have to go for indies which are difficult to find because they have no fanbase or marketing.How is this any different from most manga that isn’t the current flavour of the month anime/shounen slop?
>>151315749Well, you can't find them in indies either so I don't know what he's talking about.
>>151315749Isn’t Archie romance?
>>151315164>women ruined comicsbullshitmangaka of dungeon meshi, Urusai Yatsura, ranma 1/2, Fullmetal Alchemist, inuyasha, sailor moon, the apothecary diaries, welcome to demon school! iruma-kun, Chihayafuru, Sono Bisque Doll, Chobits and DEMON SLAYER are women
>>151315749Where are the American comic equivalents to shoujo, josei, cooking, sports, gambling, fishing, etc. And I don't mean 2-3 isolated examples, each genre I listed has hundreds with dozens being massively influential both within and outside their 'genre'.
>>151315976You also forgot Hamtaro (Ritsuko Kawai) and Mirumo De Pon (Hiromu Shinozuka) as well as they were both created by women who are respected in their field.
>>151315916romance and comedy
>>151315036>who can’t handle complexity>superherolol lmao
>>151316018Who said anything about superheroes?
>>151314378>>151314385Why are you here?
>>151315218K,b,c.
>>151316079You triggered?
>>151314441>Morrison >Millionaire in his 20s according to you>Internets say he was born in the 60s and his current net worth is 2M>So then millionaire in his 20s (according to you) but in his 60s he owns only 2M dollarsDamn he lost it all lol. How does someone skyrocket in his 20s to millionaire and then drops to just 2M in his 60s?
>>151315994I think the better question would be are those manga popular overseas or are they something mostly read in Japan? When it comes to manga sales in America what is the largest share? Because I imagine most of it is stuff like One Piece and Dragonball. Do people who go fishing in the US read fishing mangas, would they read them? My point is that I think either there’s a crippling lack of diversity in American comics, or it is a cultural difference between the US and Japan that dictates the market.
>>151314007>This thread, againWe've discussed everything we can discuss and more in all the previous threads. This shit just turns into shit flinging from an bunch of people who I don't even think enjoy comics or manga.
>>151316213Yeah, it is pretty much settled and everyone knows why there's a disparity.
>>151316213It is the same bait every time. People are more interest in bait than discussing comics. If comics spaces actually talked about comics then things might be different.
>tranime thread
>>151316185Grant bought a castle. The upkeep for that kind of thing is pretty steep, especially when Morrison has (largely) made his living from writing comics. To still be a millionaire 35 years later is actually pretty good.
>>151316186There’s not much actual genre diversity in English translated manga when you look at what is currently in print.
>>151316186Popular enough to get licensed in America in France.
>>151314378This. Manga's success has everything to do with content. It's simply become much easier for people interested in comics to find stories in whatever genre, subgenre, subject matter, etc. they want to read by looking at manga options instead of western comics. The sooner big publishers finally figure that out the better.
>>151315603Yeah, it's one of those things that may not be obvious, but has a HUGE impact on the quality of a manga... or a comic... or a book, movie, television show, etc. etc. The complaints people have about most modern media are a result of the same issue - Western media is rarely one person's coherent vision for a story anymore, it's almost all design-by-committee shit where the studio or publisher hires a dozen writers or fires people mid-project to bring in someone new on a project to "punch it up" or "put a twist on it" or focus group a project until its just another bland and samey work indistinguishable from everything else.It's why /co/ gets really excited any time some graphic novel or limited series from a single author and/or artist outside the major publishers comes along. I think back to releases like Animosity or Be Prepared or Something is Killing the Children, or more recent releases like Beneath the Trees - they can be good, they can be bad, they can be amazingly wholesome, they can be embarrassing trainwrecks, or anything in between, but you can always tell "this was someone's vision" versus "this is what the came out of the algorithm when the suits turned the crank".Same thing whenever any original animation comes along that distinguishes itself from the samey slop that Pixar/Disney/Dreamworks has become.
>>151317151This
>>151315732>Manga has more variety.This is directly tied to the the Direct Market. In the video, Dark Horse sat on the Sailor Moon rights for YEARS, refusing to print them because they knew women didn't visit comic shops, it would bomb. The only difference between then and now is that Dark Horse would try printing Sailor Moon... and it would still bomb, because women still don't visit comic book shops. Comic companies have made every effort imaginable to expand the userbase of Comic Book Stores and it has not worked. Attempts to diversify comic books printed to comic book shops fail because the only people who will visit comic book shops are male science fiction nerds, and seemingly no effort on earth will ever change that."If you build it, they will come" is a nice thought, but it is not reality.
>>151317151>It's why /co/ gets really excited any time some graphic novel or limited series from a single author and/or artist outside the major publishers comes alongThis is such utter bullshit. You’re painting it as if almost no series exists that isn’t made by a major publisher and isn’t produced by a committee when that type of shit is being published all the time and nobody here pays any attention to it unless it happens to be a person who happens by accident to be the flavour of the month creator or latest hate bandwagon target
>>151316079I love comics, but this is how people view comics. This is the reality. Denying this reality does not help you in any way. Also, I get no (You)s when I make proper, non-spam comic threads. You faggot "fans" only respond to this type of shit.
>admits to being a faggot on purpose
>>151315916Archie is trash
>>151318323Learn how to read.
>animefag making the same thread>AGAIN>for the Nth timeWhy? If you think you will make me read manga by making these threads, you are mistaken. I have nothing against manga as a whole, but it simply doesn't interest me and that is okay. People have different tastes. I have so much Thor comics to read that I will never run out.
>>151316319>sharynigger post
>>151318434>I have so much Thor comicsIt's many.brainlet moment
>>151318697It's a bot. It didn't even read the OP, which is saying that the only reason western comics don't sell as well as manga is the distribution it's tied to, with proof being that manga failed to make an impact when it was comic book people trying to bring it through comic book shops.In fact, most of the repliers don't seem to have read the OP.
>>151315976This is /co/. Everything you listed belongs /a/. Japanese roasties are different breed from American roasties.Ironically it's because of dykes why we're not allowed to compete at same levels as manga & anime. Webm rel.
>>151316002>>>/a/You otakus are out of touch. Japanese foids don't bastardize male oriented IPs like American foids do. All the woke shit went into overdrive because some roastie was making the big decisions & that's why things are now shit. It's 100% a woman problem.
>>151318434OP keeps making them because you keep responding to them.Fucking learn to ignore them.Also, Thor has no good comics.
>>151316079Cartoons. Western animation industry has major issues but it's doing great compared to the big western comics companies
>>151318944western animation has literally taken to calling their works "Animes" to be taken seriously you cuck.
>>151315976>Urusai Yatsura, ranma 1/2, inuyasha, DEMON SLAYERTrash.
>>151315164Men ruined comics. Women are the only people buying anything. 80-90% of sales are to women. Men just pirate everything.You cater to women or you go hungry and homeless.The failure of american comics is the failure of catering to women. Europe has managed and Japan leads the way.
>>151319040>Women are the only people buying anything.Comics are only made for women.Men buy things that are catered towards them, no point in buying shit made by people who hate me when there's perfectly good media made by people who don't hate me to buy instead, and it's easier to access to boot.
Comics are full of gays and trans.
>>151319368So are manga. That's not the main issue.
>>151314007>It had nothing to do with content.So true sister, keep speaking your truth, everyone else is wrong.
>>151314007I wanted fap material back then and I didn't find it in comic books.
>>151319382Untrue.
>>151315218Respect.
>>151319382Name 5 trans mangaka. For comics it's easy Sophie Campbell, Mags Visaggio, Tamra Bonvillain, Lilah Sturges, Tony (Jeny) Isabella, Simon Hanselmann.
>>151314007>It had nothing to do with content.They had god knows how much money, market share, and influence to make their shit sellAt some point they needed to recognize the product was unwanted
>>151319982Viz nearly went broke trying to bring Manga to people through comic book shops. This is a big point in the video. The only reason they were able to get out from under all the money they sunk in were Pokemon VHS tapes. After that, they pivoted HARD away from comic book shops and found success.
>>151319939Yuhki KamataniShou AraiKeito GakuChiiAsuka MiyazakiHanselmann is just a crossdresser.
>>151319007Those manga mog your favorite westoid slop though, trooner.
>>151320191Nah. I only know they're shit because I read manga.
>>151320205You aren't fooling anyone.
It is highly likely that Beyond the Spiderverse will make less money than its predecessor.
>>151315036>manga is for dumb people who can’t handle complexity or too many wordsStrong visuals are more important than words in this medium
>>151315976Western women ruined comics, yes.
Amerimutts can't stop taking L's. You lot don't have to pretend that you like (or even own) any western comics here. It's an anonymous message board ffs
>>151320156Literally who
>>151316185>>Millionaire in his 20s according to youhere's a few sources if you don't believe me.Released at the same time as Tim Burton’s Batman movie, Arkham Asylum benefited from being the newest stand alone Batman graphic novel on the shelves and sold a million copies on release. With a royalty rate that earned him one dollar from every copy sold, Grant Morrison woke up one day to find himself a millionaire and nothing was the same again.>https://bookpeopleblog.com/2014/03/20/time-is-a-flat-circle-intro-to-grant-morrison/>He is the multimillionaire king of comic books who is revered by rockstars and divides his time between Los Angeles and a turreted mansion overlooking a Scottish loch.>https://www.thetimes.com/uk/scotland/article/comic-king-grant-morrison-reinventing-batman-vd07vvp7pBut that's the thing, Arkham Asylum was his big hit, and while he became a comic superstar, he never quite got a second bookstore hit like that. People who shop bookstores would pick up AA and then...maybe another Batman graphic novel, but not make it a regular thing. Batman and Son is probably his second best selling work and it's under a different deal and likely not anywhere close to as popular as AA was at it's peak.
>>151320249Not trying to. Just being honest.
>>151317391>t. In the video, Dark Horse sat on the Sailor Moon rights for YEARS, refusing to print them because they knew women didn't visit comic shops, it would bomb. TThis didn't sound right. Upon looking it up I saw that DH only rejected the rights, they didn't hold it at any point. https://screenrant.com/sailor-moon-real-reason-not-come-america-dark-horse/https://www.cbr.com/sailor-moon-dark-horse-reject/If that's what the video claims, I would be skeptical of other claims.
>>151320777The video said they rejected the rights. It's a moot point. They were being asked to bring Sailor Moon to the United States and refusing to do it.
>>151320828Sitting on rights is a lot bigger an issue than rejecting them. They were free to shop around the rights and eventually did. Mixxzine from Tokyopop’s early incarnation was out there before the show aired its remainder of season 2 episodes on Toonami.
