FEDORA 40 IS UPhttps://www.phoronix.com/news/Fedora-40-Availablehttps://fedoraproject.org/
>>100144237mmh gnome or kde? that is the question
>>100144257Fedora is build by gnome, for gnome.
>>1001442371.gnome shit2.red hat shit3.IBM shit4.Spyware shit
>>100144237Legitimate question, why use Fedora? I mean what actual benefits does Fedora offer compared to other distros? I've never used it because it just seems pointless to me.
>>100144479#1 - very competent dev teamUp to date packages, security/bugfix tags on packages, most packages you would want are in the repos, easy to build packages
>>100144725>Up to date packages, most packages you would want are in the repos, easy to build packagesAll of these apply to multiple other distros, such as Arch. Not sure what the security tag thing you mentioned means, but since Fedora was the only major distro vulnerable to the xz exploit, I think that's a black mark in their security record.
>>100144237Already? damn guess it's time to get Plasma 6 on my machine>>100144479How is fedora pointless when if it wasn't for them Linux as a whole would be stuck on fucking CLI? they are the one doing all the fucking heavy lifting, Xorg, Wayland, GTK/Gnome, Systemd, Grub. Plymouth, Nvidia open source drivers/firmware, the kernel, Linus Torvalds uses it too, and a bunch of more shit, they are the LINUX
>>100144237Staying on 39 for now since I heard bad things about Plasma 6's launch on other distros.
>>100144237I updooted a few days early in a rare show of (quite unfounded) faith. Plasma 6 is wonky, mostly because of wayland's shittiness, but a couple other issues are just KDE things. Plasma/wayland was not yet ready for prime time.
>>100144797>#1 - very competent dev team>such as ArchYou can add the tags when you update and only get security or bugfix updates rather than every single package that's been updated.
>>100144797>but since Fedora was the only major distro vulnerable to the xz exploitWeren't Ubuntu, Debian, and OpenSUSE also affected?
>>100145151noe
Make sure to read the new Redhat Allyship Commandments before you install and donate to BLM!
>>100145232>>100144797Idiot, only Fedora Rawhide (the not-for-end-user rolling release version) was affected, not Fedora proper. If you go by the same definition then Debian Sid also got it.
>>100145151???https://news.opensuse.org/2024/03/29/xz-backdoor/https://lists.debian.org/debian-security-announce/2024/msg00057.htmlhttps://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/noble-numbat-beta-delayed-xz-liblzma-security-update/43827
>>100144814>How is fedora pointless when if it wasn't for them Linux as a whole would be stuck on fucking CLI? they are the one doing all the fucking heavy lifting, Xorg, Wayland, GTK/Gnome, Systemd, Grub. Plymouth, Nvidia open source drivers/firmware, the kernel, Linus Torvalds uses it too, and a bunch of more shit, they are the LINUXOkay, this more or less confirmed my suspicions that people use Fedora because they have no idea what they're doing. The same reason people still use GNOME.
>>100145295noe
>>100144237Just updooted to 40 KDE, not sure if it's just me but feels like it works slightly faster now>>100144479I've wanted something like Ubuntu but without snap shit
>>100144797>but since Fedora was the only major distro vulnerable to the xz exploitnot true, there was opensuse too>>100144919you can do that on Arch too anon
>>100146438>you can do that on Arch too anonwiki link or link?
>>100146485just type "yay" in your terminal to update and it lets you select packages you don't want to update
>>100144237I like Fedora with XFCE. It supports the dual battery setup on my Thinkpad.dnf is easy to read and use, where as apt looks like trash. Ubuntu enforces snap packagesDistros like Mint claim to be free of snap's bullshit, but you're either going to use the flatpak or "just use the version from 5+ years ago bro"Both flatpak and snap suck ass due to simple software like Audacity taking over 700MB.Debian is too dated, and not suited for desktop use.I don't want to update my system files 5 times a day like it happens on Arch based distros.RPM packages are the best.
>>100146501>I don't want to update my system files 5 times a day like it happens on Arch based distros.you don't have to kekI update my laptop once every couple weeks and that works fine
>>100144301KDE still works fine? I've heard KDE devs themselves recommend Fedora KDE.
>>100146494That's not the same. You don't know what those updates are for. In fedora you can dodnf upgrade --security and it will only pull in packages that were updated to fix security vulnerabilities. You can go further and specify the security level like Critical or Important.
>>100144257https://fedoraproject.org/spins/
>>100144797>>100145151Distros that never had the backdoored XZ>Ubuntu>Debian>FedoraDistros that had backdoored XZ but weren't vulnerable due to configuration>Arch>GentooDistro that had backdoored XZ and was vulnerable to it>openSUSE TumbleweedGet it right.
>>100146554I haven't used KDE on it, but gnome is the default DE.
>>100146570right, you're correct. never used fedora before so I didn't know that was what you meant kek
>>100144479For one, packages are barely meddled with, same goes for themes and aliases et al and I've also never once had to deal with dependency hellDoes not peddle non-free shit like snap, devs help with free ecosystems (flatpak, podman) instead
When it comes to Fedora I frequently hear 2 complaints>SELinux>RPMFusion Mesa issuesCan any Fedora user comment on these?
>>100146581>mfw on opensusejust typed sudo zypper dup and my system installed the backdoored library opensuse send a rollback package that same day. but i just made a clean reinstall since god knows what the chinks had in that package that is the consequence of using a rolling release distro>>100146795i dont like IBM nor RedHat and fedora is just their guinea pig, hope that helps
where is my damn button?
>>100147057>relying on GUIngmi
>>100147057Use the dnf pluginhttps://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/quick-docs/upgrading-fedora-offline/
>>100144257KDE obviously
>>100144257>>100146554KDE is the way.>>100144301>Fedora is build by gnome, for gnome.theres discussion right now in changing gnome for KDE as the main line distro
>plasma spin on 6.0It's not stable yet though
>>100147202>theres discussion right now in changing gnome for KDE as the main line distro>discussionsome rando brought it up, it's not happening
>>100147216but should happen. KDE is just better looks better feels better.
>>100147216>some rando brought it up, it's not happeningImportant people are part of that discussion. And by the way it's not changing it to THE main DE. It's making it a main DE alongside GNOME.
>>100144237>>100146554Just upgraded my system, go the new KDE version, here are my initial thoughts :>my bottom panel is gone and my top one is now floating>overview is now really sluggish>krunner displays empty space when searching for things>I cannot add my nextcloud account due to a crash>CalDAV sync still doesn't work>X11 session is gone>gestures still aren't customizable>xwayland video bridge still doesn't workI added the X11 session back, and the overview effect only showed a black screen.I went back to 39 and will stay on it until plasma 6's wayland issues are fixed, I had issues on both intel and radeon graphics. Plasma 5.27 is in a much better state than 6.0.x.Fedora 40 is not a good release as far as KDE is concerned. It's still better than KDE Neon though.
>>100147206plasma update 6.1 is in may or something. it will fix alot of things including nividia stuff
>>100144479Just werks.
Now that Plasma 6 has been mostly ironed out, KDE just outright mogs Gnome. I would love to see download stats for Fedora, because I'd be shocked if KDE wasn't #1 right now.
>>100147328>mostly ironed outThe redone effects like the overview still exhibit worse performance than they did on Plasma 5.27. The nextcloud and CalDAV integrations are still boroken while they work flawlessly on gnome. Plasma 6 is a step back in some key areas. Say what you will about GNOME, but as slow as it is to adopt new features, it is stable and didn't suffer as many regressions from 45 to 46 as Plasma did from 5.27 to 6.
I just updated and it broke my hibernation (which I already had to specially set up because fedora disables it)
>>100146795>SELinuxIt's problematic, it's just too aggressive for a normal user>RPMFusionthe mesa problems are only with Nvidia, but where doesn't Nvidia acts like a bitch?
>>100146795If you dislike SELinuxgrubby --update-kernel ALL --args selinux=0and reboot, that's it
grubby --update-kernel ALL --args selinux=0
>>100147553>the mesa problems are only with NvidiaI thought NVIDIA didn't use Mesa>>100147553>>100147873What does SELinux actually do to get in the way, though?
>>100146795>SELinuxIt's not really a complaint about Selinux, but people complain about defaults, most of them can't change Selinux configuration and decide to distro hop.>RPMFusion Mesa issuesIt removed hardware support for h264/h265/avc codecs due to legal shenanigans, you can replace them and move on. Again, it is a default.>>100147553>the mesa problems are only with NvidiaNo, it has explicitly affected anything using open source drivers, specially AMD. Nvidia carries its own codecs with the proprietary driver.
>>100147966>What does SELinux actually do to get in the way, though?It's preventing me from hibernating right now.
Here we go>>100148127crops up here and there, Ive had it come up when giving local volume access with root permissions to a container
I'm waiting for Bazzite build
Does 40 have optimized v2/v3/v4 packages or not?
>>100148233How can I test it?
>>100148233I have not found a single program with x86-64 with version 2, 3 or 4.
>>100148278You can't, because fedora does not provide any x86_64 v2/3/4 packages yet.
>>100148233>>100148278>>100148368>>100148406Suse wins again, why can't the other distros do this already? I'll switch to whatever distro can provide v4 officially first.
>>100144479Same thing as Ubuntu, without snap and with vanilla gnome. Top AND side bar in a DE that doesn't need it is just a ridiculous waste of space.
>>100148118>It removed hardware support for h264/h265/avcI am talking about RPMfusion's Mesa, the nonfree versionHere's some of the complaints I'm talking abouthttps://www.reddit.com/r/Fedora/comments/131u1n6/mesa_freeworld_maintainers_need_to_start/https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/132u5gs/fedora_users_with_rpmfusion_and_mesafreeworld/
>>100148526>shit you can change in 2 minuteswho cares>gnomewho cares
>>100148127Unironically what's the use case for hibernating in 2024?
Time to upgrade to 39!
>>100148233>>100148368>>100148406>>100148442What are v2/v3/v4 packages?
Plasma 6 status?
>>100150269krashing
>>100150154Suspend is broken on newer laptops, you lose a lot more battery as most components are powered when the system is suspended, while only RAM was kept on when s3 sleep was the standard.With hibernation you can quickly restore system state without the power draw of modern suspend.>>100150243Packages compiled to make use of "modern" instructions like AVX or SSE4.2, things like python or databases show some pretty decent gains. Right now everything basically targets the same instructions the Athlon 64 had in 2003.>>100150269Mostly fine. Krunner is a bit faster, the Qt6 apps look nicer, the new overview is a lot more usable (closer to GNOME's), but it is a bit choppier. Honestly you're not missing much if you stay on 39, plasma 5.27 is in a very good state and the biggest new feature, HDR, isn't usable yet.
Is Fedora good for web dev? I've recently switched to Debian and will be doing some web dev shit in the near future. I'm concerned that Debian's node package is pretty old, even in Debian testing.Is Fedora better for this usecase, or is Debian with nvm just as good? Also, how much telemetry does Fedora have?
>>100150284lmfao
>>100147254>mfw using Fedora 40 KDE since it was "branched" with zero issuesLiterally a (You) problem
>>100144237
>>100151790Fedora's Atomic Images are particularly good for any Dev because you can just install the latest packages inside of distrobox while keeping your base system clean.
>>100148233/usr/lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2 --help
/usr/lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2 --help
>>100144814>they are the LINUXshh don't tell that to freetards, they still think their commie OS of "choice" is some rebellion against big tech when in reality it has been co-opted by corporations for over two decades
>>100151790>Is Fedora good for web dev? Fairly irrelevant, although it'll teach you about selinux early on.>concerned that Debian's node package is pretty old, even in Debian testing.Use nvm inside a container, that's the industrial and practical standard for any webdev these days.>Is Fedora better for this usecase, or is Debian with nvm just as good?Again, fairly irrelevant, use containers. Fedora comes with a clean default setup for podman, so that be your first choice. Aforementioned distrobox is a wrapper around that.>Also, how much telemetry does Fedora have?Currently none. There are some proposed changes in the room for some opt-out info, but the community wasn't all so happy about it yet. So none are to be expected soon.
>>100152232>telemetryEbussy was all for it, to the surprise of no one. I kinda wish it got approved because it'd sink GNOME even harder
what's new in 40 besides gnome 46 and plasma 6
>>100144257kde is garbage but 40 ships plasma 6 if you want it
>>100144237>FEDORA 40 IS UPjust updooted letsgo fedorabros
backing up my shit currently and doing a clean install to kdetired of gnome shit
>>100144421bippy
Can you update graphically?Fedora KDE btw.
>>100152859Probably not, but what's wrong with using DNF?
>>100152859*krashes*
>>100152883>Probably not, but what's wrong with using DNF?It's okay, just asking.See you on the other side bros.
>>10014725440 KDE with wayland is working flawlessly for me. Amd cpu and gpu.
>>100152889What a fresh, new joke. You're pretty clever anon.
>>100152889*cuts your dick off*
>>100150214based one version behind enjoyerI always stay 1 version behind. dangerously comfy.
>>100152859Yes, discover will notify you when the upgrade is ready for you
>>100146494the fuck is yay?t. arch chad who has never used aur
>>100152232Thank you for the detailed response. I'm fairly new to Linux and haven't experimented much with containers yet.When you say>>Is Fedora better for this usecase, or is Debian with nvm just as good?>Again, fairly irrelevant, use containers. Fedora comes with a clean default setup for podman, so that be your first choice. Aforementioned distrobox is a wrapper around that.Could something like this be done with docker as well? I guess I'm a bit confused on how to set up and begin using the container.I assume, for example, on a Debian 12 machine you could set up docker and then start using one of these node images (preferrably Debian 2 based): https://hub.docker.com/_/nodeAnd then install nvm and use it as expected. Is that the correct workflow?
>>100152079Nothing stops you from doing this on a non-atomic distro.
>>100153790>t. arch "chad" who has never used aurWhy even use arch then?
>>100153895it just werks, aur makes it not werk
>>100144257Neither, if you want X11. XFCE or staying on 39 would probably be the best while Wayland gets its shit together>>100144479It's Ubuntu, but good>up to date packages>inplace upgrades just werk>stable thanks to corporate support What else do you want?
>>100152859Pretty sure only GNOME supports graphical updates
how fucked is vrr on gnome
>>100153949X11 was still there for me on gnome after the update
>>100144814>Wayland>GTK/Gnome>Systemd>PlymouthHoly shit I hate Fedora now.
>>100154006Maybe it only affects fresh installs then? Or your upgrade didn't work? They did make it clear that they wouldn't be supporting it anymore and that it'd be removed from the repos
>>100154031Nah they're dropping it with 41, I think the KDE spin might have dropped already though.
>>100144814It is pointless from the user's perspective. The fact that they contribute heavily to open source doesn't make Fedora a better option than Ubuntu or OpenSUSE.
>>100152980>Gets erectionEbussy's erectile dysfunction is cured from his fetish from removing useful things.
Wow the new KDE gestures are amazing. GNOME is dead.
>still on dnf4
I installed fedora 40 with plasma 6 on my PC, this is what happened.This sole event is leading me to install Windows 10 LTSC on both my main PC and my steam deck.I've just had it with linux. I'm sick of shit just messing up and not working. It's bullshit. Bye bye linux, won't miss you, at all.Also I tried gnome on fedora 40. Slow as shit, literally takes 1.5 seconds to open the file manager lul.
>>100154777I think you have a memory leak. How much ram are you using?
>>100144479There's no alternative for me.>Highly unlikely to dick me over>No snaps>KDE support >Updated frequently every 6 months so gaming will be goodArch would be a good alternative but the whole "check for manual intervention on updates" thing I can't be bothered with. It updates so often im not going to fucking arch.com or whatever and sifting through the patch notes each time in case I get fucked. In fact it's likely I'd read them, not understand a thing, get fucked anyway lol.An immutable distro based on arch would be very interesting to me. Something that assumes it will fuck up at some point but it's okay there will be an image for me to go back to :) where it works again! A bit like Fedora Atomic.
>>100155207There is some, only one I know is Arkanehttps://arkanelinux.org/
>>100155389>GnomeFucking Linux devs are all mentally ill
>>100144257I'm gonna be the contrarian and say that I use Fedora with Gnome and man does it Just Workâ˘. I actually used the KDE spin for a while but ended up going back to Gnome which is the last thing I was expecting to do.
>>100144479You get to be part of the Red Hat team and help build a better future for the Linux desktop. :)
I've replaced some of my ubanto dpckers with fedora ones. being able to just install rocm is nice.
>>100144479podman and flatpak sold me to fedora. Been using it since version 16 and never really had to switch
Speaking about Fedora, what's this project and how is exactly related to it?https://github.com/ublue-os/bluefin/tree/mainDoes this allow you to build a custom Silverblue ISO? That would be handy, i don't like using Flatpak for MPV and not sure about how this toolbox thing interacts with media and codecs
>>100144479Just the right update window. Not to fast that you want to cut your dick off and also not so slow as debian that you get ancient packages
>>100152053>ummm yikes, sweaty, there are to many str*ight wh*te m*n on the board, FIX IT NOW!!fuck off
>>100144479They were the ones that introduced the concept of inmutable distros to the mainstream.
>>100144479>what actual benefits does Fedora offer compared to other distros?Fedora tries out features years before they become mainstream and get adopted by most distros. Also, is a distro that offers a 100% open source default, yes, legal shenanigans may affect it but being realistic, sooner or later software regulation may get more strict in some countries, so better have Fedora and not reinvent the wheel.
>>100153800Yes, you can use docker on debian as well. Podman is just a more modern version of docker and standard on all dnf based distros. They both use the same images, if that's causing confusion. I'm too lazy to write out all the details on this, so go check out some youtube tutorial. In general the ladder of decision between docker and podman goes like this:>what the existing project uses>what you're already used to>podmanAfter pulling a dedicated image like hub.docker.com/_/node, you dont need to install node anymore, it's already in there. Write your project and ramp it up.
>>100154777>Also I tried gnome on fedora 40. Slow as shit, literally takes 1.5 seconds to open the file manager lul.Opens instantly here. But it's ok, enjoy Windows.
>>100155993That makes a lot more sense. I've actually been doing quite a bit of research since I asked that first question, and I'm starting to realize Debian is probably one of the worst choices for using docker. Its current docker package is very, very out of date, and even pending removal (?) due to unfixed bugs. However, the testing branch has a Podman roughly on par with upstream... Ubuntu seems to be the way to go for docker, as it's slightly behind upstream in that regard. And Fedora obviously has Podman. All 3 options have the third party docker-ce repo possibility, but as I understand it, this is probably a big nono for at least Debian and Ubuntu. Not sure about FedoraI'm getting analysis paralyis on which to choose to learn webshittery on Linux
>>100151867>>100152916It works well under Wayland, like 5.27 did. I'm just kind of disappointed the issues It had under 5.27 weren't fixed. The big improvements that were put front and center like the overview and krunner have polish and/or performance issues.The X11 session saw some regressions as well, the overview doesn't work when using EGL. It's not as bad as KDE 4 was in its day, but the few issues it has are pretty glaring, coming from the much more polished state of 5.27.I don't think it's a hardware issue on my end, as my experience was consistent across intel and amd integrated and dedicated graphics.>>100156801Just get use whatever comes with a desktop you like, has up-to-date versions of the software you need and updates on a schedule that works for you. Fedora has editions with all major desktops, has a new release every 6 months and has fairly new packages without compromising stability, it's a good choice.
>>100155207Same though I use nobara instead
>>100152408I always enable telemetry on open source systems to help developers.I always disable telemetry on proprietary systems because if I paid for it then I expect a finished product.Yes, I'm based like that.
>>100152744You''re gonna go back within a week.
>>100155725It's just a silverblue image with additonal packages, including the codecs and whatnot you'd get from RPM fusion. You can use its scripts to create your own image.Toolbox is just a wrapper around podman. It's less versatile than- distrobox if you intend to run GUI programs or don't want to litter your home directory.>>100144479It updates more reliably than arch in my experience, without being that far behind. It doesn't try to force snaps or whatever onto you, doesn't try to sell you a subscription. It provides sane defaults for all the desktops it supports. Its just a reasonably new, stable distribution.Having to add a third party repo to get codecs and fully functional ffmpeg and whatnot is a pain in the ass though, it can create conflicts with the default repo.
>>100157124Same, basically I reverse whatever the default setting is during setup.
>>100155819Nice try but we all know why they are doing it.
>>100152408i hate communists so much it's unreal
>>100157151I'm retarded, how am i supposed to do this?>It's just a silverblue image with additonal packages, including the codecs and whatnot you'd get from RPM fusion. You can use its scripts to create your own image.Never used Github Actions before.
>>100159214>how am i supposed to do thishttps://github.com/ublue-os/image-templateThey have fairly clear instructions.>Never used Github actionsNow is a good time to learn! CI/CD skills are useful for a lot more things than software dev and are in high demand!
>>100159872Sounds good. Will train this on a VM.
>>100155007That's not a memory leak KEKWThe slider stops moving when his mouse leaves the slider's area
>>100156009upload a webm showing this(you won't because you're lying or your technology illiterate)
gnome is gay
>>100154777>>100155007>>100161108it's because he is using KDE
>>100156801>Its current docker package is very, very out of dateWelcome to Debian.Use Fedora if you want to be closer to upstream without going full Arch, and want a major update every 6 months.Use Ubuntu LTS or Rocky Linux if you want to simulate an enterprise production environment, and want a major update every 2 years.
>>100161134Believe what you will, anon. I hope you find what you're looking for with Windows 10 LTSC.
>>100161558I ran win10 LTSC on my deck for a while. The install process was gruelling, the whole experience sub-optimal. It mostly worked, but I was pretty quick to re-install SteamOS. Windows without a keyboard/mouse or up-to-date GPU drivers just isn't a good experience, it's not worth it.
Alright, can anyone tell me why they're still having btrfs as default without taking advantage of it in the setup process?openSUSE had snapshots enabled for centuries now. What's keeping Fedora from setting this up automatically without the user having to do all that shit? What is really the point of btrfs without using snapshots?
>>100161803>without taking advantage of it in the setup processBy default, / and /home are put on two separate subvolumes, zstd compression is enabled as well. Snapshots are a great feature, but not the sole reason to use btrfs, CoW behaviour, subvolumes and transparent compression are very appealing as well.>verification not required
>>100161999Are the BTRFS snapshosts good enough to endure major upgrade jumps?
>>100163861I don't know about how BTRFS snapshots handle upgrading from one release to another. I run the atomic KDE version, so if an update has some issues, I can just reboot on the previous system image. Upgrading to 40 and rolling back to 39 just worked.
>>100164024Kionite is neat, but i feel like i would end having to layer many things to make an inmutable OS to work. Largely>libvirt related packages (USB passthrough is finnicky on containers)>my shit printer and other crap' drivers>Ollama>codecs (unless there's a seamless way to integrate mpv+yt-dlp inside distrobox so i can use it like if it was a native package, doing this through Flatpak didn't work last time i tried a year ago)>Some plasma scripts i maye find handy like BismuthFeels like i need at the moment is just regular Fedora with distrobox and snapper/timeshift.
what's new in gnome 46?
>>100164952https://release.gnome.org/46/
>>100164499>libvirtOne of the few packages I add as an overlay, with virt-manager and distrobox.>printerPrinting over the network just works with my HP and lexmark printers. If your printer is connected directly through USB, You should be able to overlay any necessary drivers>ollamaROCm, CUDA, oneAPI and all the stuff that relies on it works really well within a container. I do all my AI/ML stuff in a distrobox container.>codecsMy apps are either flatpaks or running in containers, so codecs really aren't an issue on my base system. Distrobox makes running GUI apps in containers pretty seamless. For CLI stuff, I have separate profiles for each of my containers in konsole.>plasma scriptsI had no issues adding Krohnkite as a KWin script to get dynamic tyling. Other scripts should work similarly well.If you're thinking with containers, an immutable system really doesn't hold you back.
>>100165694Guess the only true way to be sure is spinning up a Virtual machine and try reproduce my workflow to figure out pain points to solve. The one thing that would've to iron out first is the mpv integration. Libvirt just works everywhere and is even mentioned on Silverblue docs. I don't use my printer often enough that i can't just use a LiveUSB or Virtual Machine to deal with that. If you say Kwin scripts work fine then it shouldn't be hard to set up. Or maybe i can just build my own OCI image with one of the Blue OS base scripts.
