Why are so many people still getting CS degrees when the tech industry is pretty much dead and you have an almost zero percent chance of ever getting a job now? When the dot com crash happened in the early 2000s, CS enrollment fell off a cliff, but this time it just keeps growing. Is it just delusion at this point?
Im trans btw
Should move them to urban planning, civil engineering and construction majors to help out our housing crisis instead.Learn to build is the new learn to code, over a billion more babies will be born in the next 25 years, all needing room and board.
>>100175289>over a billion more babies will be born in the next 25 yearsMore than a billion will die in the same timespan. The housing market is collapsing.
>>100175215>but this time it just keeps growinga crash similar to the dot com crash hasn't occurred yet
>>100175215>ou have an almost zero percent chance of ever getting a job nowBut I have a tech job anon and I also have a degree in painting. Maybe you just suck and cannot communicate well in interviews.
>>100175215There are plenty of CS-related jobs out there, but the times of getting a 6 figure job straight out of undergrad are mostly over (unless you get hired in NYC/Cali, in which case the COL basically halves your salary anyway). Also like this anon said >>100175518 very few tech workers nowadays actually spend most of their day cooding, if you ever want to get past junior SWE level then you need some leadership and communication skills like everyone else
>>100175602>if you ever want to get past junior SWE levelWhat are you talking about? The junior positions are the hardest ones to find. The problem isn't getting promoted when you already have a job, it's getting a job in the first place, and it's pretty much going to be impossible from here on out until we have another major global recession, the fed cuts interest rates back to 0, and half a decade of recovery has passed.
>>100175289the housing crisis in the US is purely caused by zoning and construction laws
>>100175514Part of ne expects a similar crash once people find out AI is only good for dicking around and computers are nowhere near capable enough for the cost to offset
>>100175693>oey vey goyim, its just these pesky zoning and construction lawstell me more rabbi. surely it has nothing to do with the 100 million immigrants let into the country. weird how bill gates literally said this was his plan 20 years ago.https://news.microsoft.com/1997/03/04/bill-gates-outlines-microsofts-educational-initiatives-for-india/>lol lets set up thirdies to do computer science so we can have cheap waggies lmao
It’s the only degree with getting because it’s the easiest one that you can instantly call bullshit when the professor says something retarded. (Other than math but you don’t make money with math degrees.)
>>100175215Now that I am in the industry myself, I realize that this field is the biggest pile of shit you could possible work in. All your intellect will be dedicated to endlessly learning different tools that do the exact same thing to solve problems that have been solved decades ago. Businesses are run by people who are ignorant of what technology can do for them. This is why you have morons fantasizing about replacing warehouse laborers with walking robots rather than something simpler that they could have had 10 or 15 years ago which might have offered the same efficiency gain.
>>100178171> (Other than math but you don’t make money with math degrees.)computer science IS a math degree though anon.....................
>>100175693The housing crisis is caused by morons who think everyone should live in the same couple of trendy neighborhoods in the center of the city. There is no housing crisis outside of those areas.>But there are no jobs out there.That's a different issue and nowhere near as true as those who can't fathom living away from an urban center would have you believe. Once you get past midwit levels of thinking, you can see the entire landscape, how to make it work for you, and what chumps most people are following the flock wherever it goes.
>>100175215I don't blame them. Getting a CS job in the states basically means you won at life. The work is incredibly easy for the amount of pay you get.
>>100175215After high school CS was the only thing I could think of as the alternatives were even worse.>Continue working in a dead-end warehouse job with minimal wage>Too stupid for Math major, and no jobs available anyway>Physics/CE/EE/other engineering majors are all super boring unless you are into thatI did a CS degree, because it was either that or being a useless low-paid/unemployed NEET.
>>100178529No. Now it’s rural towns making building/subdividing hard to keep immigrants out.There isn’t actually a housing shortage, we’re in the early stages of a political crisis.
>>100175215What do you mean? Canadian industry associations are still paying for news articles screeching that there's a shortage of employees. The government must do something!
>>100178123It's both>inflate the price of already competitive real estate, while bringing illegals in>prevent the construction of affordable starter homes using zoning and construction laws>funnel every normal, law abiding citizen into a goyzone
>>100175257 because of blackrock
>>100178759It's the fastest growing market segment in terms of profits for the big pharmaceutical corporations EVER.*nods*
>>100175215It's because of pajeets. Look at how they run their country. Know what India needs more of? Anything but more Indians. But Indian politicians still talk about increasing the birth rate over there. Think they need more call center workers, webshitters, data center techs, etc? Nope. But they're too retarded to stop.
>>100175215i was 13 when i got super interested in the field and it was 2016, so i chose to focus on this in highschool and then started my university degree in 2022 and since then the field has just overgrownwhy the fuck did this happen? is it randos that are inflating the field lately or is it actually the wave of people of my age from around 2017 that are finally getting out of universities and getting jobs?can anyone that has a better view on this tell me?this situation stinks to me, but it'd accept it if it was the wave of people of my age
>>100175215a bunch of """product managers""" being fired from the "tech industry" doesn't mean tech is dead, nor are tech careers dead for competent programmers.
>>100178499>computer science IS a math degreeyou mathlet faggots also claim that physics is mathno matter how much you say it, it ain't so
>>100175215>when the tech industry is pretty much deadIt's not dead, the main problemo here is that the people at all the big corpos thought that the bonanza times from the pandemic with people spending money hand over fist for meaningless shit would last basically forever, but people aren't inside they homes anymore, and we're entering head first to an even worse recession than the 2008 one, it's obvious people would save on spending much, more so without the free pandemic money.
>>100175215>the tech industry is pretty much deadthere's masses of jobs out there, we're still hiringit's just the silly valley giants that are laying people off, but they're very much not the only employers
>>100180834Or the big corpos realized that they own money printers and could fire employees and not see any hurt for multiple quarters? It's the paradigm adopted by so many other corps in other markets so the major tech corporations wouldn't be immune forever. Eventually they'd have the critical mass of managers who think and act like all the other managers that this had to happen. Then it's monkey-see monkey-do both in reality and in the articles regularly read by the industry's management.>>100180647Capital hates capitalism so whenever they should be working hard to develop the domestic job market or increasing wages to meet the demands of scarce talent, they instead prefer to go crying to government to make the booboo better. Or collude corruptly amongst one-another. Or both!
>>100175215Because most goycattle are living BEHIND reality. It will take them a long time, years, to catch up.
>>100175215Because they don't to working at 3 am in fucking McDonald's
>>100180647the classes were packed in 2010 when i graduated. everyone wanted to be a cs major. i knew it was unsustainable even back then.
>>100175215>Why are so many people still getting CS degrees when the tech industry is pretty much dead and you have an almost zero percent chance of ever getting a job now? When the dot com crash happened in the early 2000s, CS enrollment fell off a cliff, but this time it just keeps growing. Is it just delusion at this point?The Jews are trying to trick everyone who is capable of a non-tech job into giving that up so when they *really* announce AI they can mass layoff everyone and strand all these fake workers into total helplessness. Then those workers will accept global tyranny as the solution. Or worse, those workers will CLAMOUR for it.
>>100175215Most of those faggots only care about money and fuck over people like us who actually love tech
>>100175215My uni isn't overcrowded but the industry definitely is, which is one of the reasons I'm dropping out. I'm considering learning a trade instead, any recommendations? Becoming an electrician sounds cool.
>>100175215Stop trying to gatekeep jobs retard, or you want more homeless on the streets?
>>100184825if i had to go trades i'd pick electrician first. i heard its hard to get into though depending on where you live since there's alot of demand.
>>100184870Yes, especially jeets. Our civilization is totally unsustainable.
>>100175215Nah soon EVERYONE will need some CS knowledge. EVERYONE.This is just the start.
>>100175215Because I like programming you fucking gatekeeping faggot.
>>100175289>over a billion more babies will be born in the next 25 yearsNah watch as the population starts plummeting soon as the globalist regime commences stage 2 of it's genocide.We're currently in stage 1 still, though covid has begun the shift in centralised control over the planet.
>>100184825Imagine dropping out in 2001 after the dotcom bubble popped. Computers were just a fad, anyway.
>>100178644Really?I didn't do CS, but I began to cram programming knowledge thanks to covid ruining my career path for good and forcing me to the fringe. That and I'm concerned we're already in an algorithmic nightmare that is fucking with people now. Digging more into programming has convinced this more to me.
>>100175215>Why are so many people still getting CS degreesMoney.>when the tech industry is pretty much dead and you have an almost zero percent chance of ever getting a job now?First, this is an exaggeration. But more importantly it's going to take at least 10 years before this information makes it out to the masses.
>>100184963Gee, I wonder who could be behind this post.
>>100185027Nah man, it's not money.To me CS is just cybersecurity now and competence with understanding the effect machines have on our data and information in other fields of science.CS should be mandatory knowledge at school, let alone university. We're not in 1970. Machines run our lives and their errors completely screw up our data now.CS has just become part and parcel with all science. As it should have been.You need to understand your instruments otherwise your data is meaningless to you. It could mean any fucking thing.The problem is, most people aren't good enough to complete it, so we'd start to have shortages of scientists full stop. So we pretend the machines are infallible right now, when they're really not at all.
>>100185058A 192cm white-germanic man. Cope harder you fucking retarded faggot. The world does not owe you luxury and happiness.
>>100185094>germanicLMAO, as expected.
>>100185094>A 192cm white-germanic man. Cope harder you fucking retarded faggot. The world does not owe you luxury and happiness.
>>100185103Good morning sir, please be preparing to sleep in the designated shitting street batch
>>100185113Nope, I'm a Slav, but nice try.
>>100185113You sound like someone who started browsing /pol/ last week and then found /g/ to shitpost your retarded points.
>>100175289>to help out our housing crisis instead.We don't have a housing crisis. We have a "boomers landlording and Blackrock buying the houses" problem.There is PLENTY of houses all around the nation for adults 18+. The ISSUE is: They're all owned by Boomers (to rent out) and/or owned by Blackrock because the housing costs have risen beyond 2-3 entire generations of wealth.
>>100185126I used to be <censored>. You've likely seen pictures of me. Spoiler alert: It all went to fucking shit in 2016-2018 and almost every pol narrative since then has been pure fucking horseshit. Online alt right whatever the fuck is overrun with pants shittings retards that might as well be from Mumbai. Nupol is always wrong and Trump is a fucking jew worshipping retard.Anyway, I hope all of you die. Money worshippers are worse than niggers and you're likely both.
>>100185142There's not enough over time, and it's fucking insane to want to turn every continent into a sea of concrete commieblocks. Fuck off with your infinite growth nigger cult.
>>100175729People already know AI is shit. It's the CEO's that are huffing their own farts and retarded venture capitalists that are attempting to make it a thing.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cAcs-dj_RU
>>100185162>I used to be <censored>. You've likely seen pictures of me. Spoiler alert: It all went to fucking shit in 2016-2018 and almost every pol narrative since then has been pure fucking horseshit. Online alt right whatever the fuck is overrun with pants shittings retards that might as well be from Mumbai. Nupol is always wrong and Trump is a fucking jew worshipping retard.>Anyway, I hope all of you die. Money worshippers are worse than niggers and you're likely both.
>>100178463>All your intellect will be dedicated to endlessly learning different tools that do the exact same thing to solve problems that have been solved decades agoAnd learning the tools becomes a competition so you can one up yoir coworkers and avoid getting laid off. Frameworks and useless tools are such a scourge. Getting the job done efficiently usually does not matter. Corporations are too big to fail anyway. I have already accepted the tech field is thoroughly retarded.
>>100175215The main problem is just less than 1% high autistic coders are need and for other 99% already other STEM majors or other degree take the jobs.Normal CS students can't compete whole STEM, bootcamps, H1B and self taught coders
>>100175215>almost zero percent chance of ever getting a job now?okay come on nowits bad but not impossible
>>100178499It most definitely is not. If my CS degree is a math degree, then how come I barely know any calculus?
>>100185567Because you're retarded
>>100185579Maybe so, I am here after all, but nonetheless I wasn't taught any calculus in my CS curriculum.
>>100185567Because you went to podunk state because you heard it was a good party school instead of MIT. Legit CS programs require calculus.
>>100185579He probably is, but it isn't really his fault if he received a poor education. You cannot filter retards without challenging them.
>>100185072>Nah man, it's not money.The vast majority of people in CS programs are there because of the promise of a 6-figure white collar salary.
>>100175215compute science majors could be good factory workers for the MIC given we are heading for a new Cold war I presume thats the endgame for most of us if we don't end up on the frontline.
>>100175693It was also caused by new housing supply dropping to nothing for a year during covid, which created a situation with more demand than supply.
>>100175215I have several friends who work in HR. They keep repeating the mantra of "there's a trillon programming jobs available and they pay well." Of course they're too stupid to realize that the positions they recruit for require too much experience and an absurd amount of tech stack.On the other hand there's a billion dollar industry of bootcamps and programmer influencers overselling the demand for these skills because that's basically their job.Normies are still behind in this regard. They haven't realized the CS market is fucked and there's zero junior level positions available. I imagine it also has to do with the fact that CS is where stupid boys who have no idea what to do their life gravitate towards. They just think "I like videogames" and "I can install an antivirus" and equate that with "I should study programming."
>>100178499it absolutely is noteven applied math for say, becoming an actuary, has an iq floor like 10 points higher than that needed for CS
>>100185347>>100178463The sad reality of webshitters
Progress in tech has far surpassed the public's implicit understanding of the limitations of tech. This means whenever they see something new, they think, "yeah it's obvious" and "why didn't they do this earlier?" and "this must be so easy".Then when you tell them "new grads" get 100K starting, their eyes start fucking watering from excitement. They can't believe that fucking posting on instagram will get them a job!People have NO FUCKING IDEA how much work getting a "simple", "trivial" phone to run an app is. You could spend five years learning the in and outs and still not cover everything.Most people can't digest this. They have a degree, and that smart stuff is for smart people, but I was promised a $100K job after leetcode. Programming in your spare time? Yeah that's for the smart guys. Why'd I pick webshitting? Websites, man. I've been using them and apps forever.
>>100186321>They haven't realized the CS market is fucked and there's zero junior level positions available. IHow are things if you have a couple years experience?
Contrary to popular belief, it's actually a really strong job market right now. It's just that the skillset that the market demands has shifted, and droves of new grads, juniors and pajeets got left behind.Quick history lesson. As the economy recovered from the 2008 subprime mortgage crisis, demand in webshitter tech surged until reaching its all time high during corona. The 2010 - 2022 era saw any tard who could write fizzbuzz in javascript getting hired for solid six fig gigs straight out of a webdev bootcamp. Once corona ended, demand for webshit crashed hard and never recovered. Venture capital was no longer realizing the returns that they were once getting because every low hanging fruit and market niche had been dominated and saturated in the web tech verticals. All the new grads, juniors and pajeets who had been focusing on webshit technology are just now realizing they are entering a market where there is only demand for senior, staff, and principle tier skillsets because only seasoned professionals are needed to maintain all the legacy systems that were written the last decade. So now they claim tech is dead and there's no jobs.In reality, Venture Capital has simply moved away from webshit and towards hard tech and they took all the jobs with them. Hard tech, that's where all the greenfield and exciting projects and companies are and where all the venture capital is pouring into. You need to reskill in hard tech if you want a job, or in other words computer engineering, electrical engineering, cpu design, embedding systems, low latency systems, gpu programming, high performance programming, advanced mathematics and statistics, etc. Haven't you been paying attention to all the chip stocks (nvidia, amd, asml, etc) going to the moon the last 1.5 years?
>>100175215i've been taking math at my local community college and so far over 50% of the students I've met in my classes were all "computer science majors". Several have even told me they have no interest in computer science, they just want to make $.
>>100187402This.>>100187263Depends on how good you are. It's spray-and-pray for most.>>100187419That's what happens when you dangle $100K starting in a recession and tell girls they can be no-code managers because they're le oppressed.
>>100180647zoomies are getting into the field to learn how to do basic computing
>>100187402farent those jobs requiring a massive skill set that is beyond retards like us?those are what CS majors are supposed to do in the first place. we're just the modern equivelant of the masses of women taking that degree to write basic code for secretarial work
>>100178123But they can't. That's the problem, they're fucking idiots and produce garbage.
>>100186321I am currently working on a CS degree. it gives me a sampling of many different topics so I can choose to go deeply into one, right now I am thinking AI because I'm intrigued by the power of parallel processing. I don't expect a degree to get me a job nor am I willing to play the phony LinkedIn game. My main motivation is to know how everything works so I go cyberpunk and maintain privacy and customization
>>100188066Your IQ seems too low for university. I suggest doing military work or farm work instead.
>>100187402Based. Webshit was always boring. I hate webdevs.
>>100178644>only thing I could think of as the alternatives were even worse. >it was either that or being a useless low-paid/unemployed NEET.> implying being a NEET is worse >>100185174Whether people know it's shit or not it'll keep going until we have another economic downturn (or the government stops propping up the economy) and some bank with insufficient liquidity that's overleveraged into AI startups fails.
>>100188096It's WGU and my employer pays. My IQ is higher than most that i can tell you and I am a manual laborer it keeps me in great shape
>>100187402This post is why I visit /g/. Informative and truthful
>>100188183I don't think your IQ is that high, you seem like a chink.
>>100188216Probably higher than yours if you think I'm a chink
>>100187438but so many people get degrees thoughand it's not as easy as people make it seem, you need to put a lot of effort to understand things like algorithms and data structures and to be properly rigorous about themand despite the effort i can confidently say i dont understand things as in depth as i would likedoes everyone actually manage to get past these courses without understanding anything? i cant imagine these type of people putting so much effort into it, and yet it's full of self centered people who brag about their exams scores online
>>100175658we've been in a recession for a whileBidenomics!
>>100178463It used to be a decent employer would pay for learning (by new training). Tech workers fucked themselves by doing this on their own & by allowing all of India to work in this country.
>>100180788the market is deadI thought you might see signs of improvement in 2025. Now, you might see improvement in 2026.
>>100180935>there's masses of jobs out there, we're still hiringyour employer may be hiringthe job market is deadI've gotten ONE legitimate hot opportunity call in the last 4 months
>>100184904My electrician & his work co-partner have no end of work. One worked a Fidelity & the other has an EE degree.
>>100184904>electrician firstWhy?
>>100187419fucking lol, cs is going to be the new biology and business degree. absolutely meaningless slop major that a billion zoombies are going to do for muh $200k starting. kinda feel bad for the actual dudes that are legitimately interested or who graduated before this before a true meme. if i was an employer recruiting for dev roles, i would just disregard all new grads with cs majors and focus on people with engineering, math, or physics instead + some programming background.
>>100175215FUCK OFF we are FULL.
>>100175693>purely caused by zoning and construction lawsThis but all of Europe as well.
>>100175289The problem is not that we lack urban planning, civil engineering or related workers, the problem is the bullshit bureaucracy and red tape they have to go through to get a permit to build anything. The cities are incentivized to limit housing supply to make line go up.Also the newer generations all wanting to pile into urban centers and don't want to live in rural areas or flyover states. They also apparently like living with all the illegals flooding into the cities.
>>100189234>Also the newer generations all wanting to pile into urban centers and don't want to live in rural areasthis has been happening since the industrial revolution first kicked off in the 1700s
>>100188066I'm all for learning for the sake of learning, but doing 4 years of college in a field as dry and dull of CS just for the sake of it doesn't sound like a good idea.
>>100180647Silicon Valley happenned. In the early 2010s it was possible to get a 500k $ salary with basic programming skills so there was a gold rush to get into programming. Fast forward to today and not only the field is overcrowded, the average junior is expected to know and use hundreds of different technologies from git to esoteric concepts like microservices.Best part? Most of them do nothing but shitty programs that interact with databases. It was always unsustainable.CS is also the field where all the boys who don't know what to do with their lives gravitate towards. It's the Psychology of STEM.
>>100189490>CS is also the field where all the boys who don't know what to do with their lives gravitate towardsthis pisses me off even more, it's beyond meis it an hype train they jump on without knowing how it'll be or is actually easy for most people? i dont get ithope you dont mind, but what about my other reply >>100188794this was supposed to be a comfy field, and now it's the most cancerous you can get into, it feels like i got scammed, except i still care about the topics... just not the peoplei was thinking of doing a physics degree too later on because i was interested in it, do i have to fucking expect people to ruin it as welli hate this world
>>100185843>instead of MITYou pretty much need a perfect SAT score to even be considered for admission into MIT. That's like 140+ iq.
>>100187253>You could spend five years learning the in and outs and still not cover everything.No you can't. iOS has an extremely simple and limited API that you can learn in a few weeks. Mobile app development is 10x easier than desktop app development, where you have significantly more complex APIs like Win32 and the freedom to do anything outside of it too, down to the lowest level assembly programming.
I'm 2 years into my software engineering job and barely know how to code. I am making 6 figures though, but I am pretty sure I only got hired because I am latino. I went to a small private school that had a terrible CS program that didn't teach me shit. I'm hoping to pivot somewhere else, maybe get a masters, any ideas? Like other anons have said, I got into this field for all the wrong reasons mainly money. I'd rather pursue something in writing/film/art but it doesn't seem realistic at this point. I'm hoping that is something I can pursue on the side once I get enough knowledge and experience in my current job.
Are cover letters still required for most jobs? I barely see it as an option on most applications I've filled out so far this past week.
>>100175215Because almost every other career is deadDo you want to not live around niggers and trailer, and the endless noise and dysfunction - you need to be making $120-150k? Do you want a house? similar story. Do you want to actually afford a 2-week vacation at a domestic destination? See above.What industries offer this?Tech, Finance, Biglaw, Medicine. And Finance and Medicine also hire SWEs. Tech for the last ~10yrs has been the liferaft of the American Dream of making enough money to live around people that aren't retards and scumbags.
>>100184825No matter, what you pick, you're going to end up in crippling pain and your coworkers and clients are some of the biggest shitbags and cheapskates you will ever encounter for a salary worse than schoolteacher, when you account for how little teachers work.
>>100183798oh my god i am so tired of hearing this sad ass cope.
>>100189760>I got into this field for all the wrong reasons mainly moneybut why? why did you really think "who cares if i like it or not, everybody is doing it and it offers lots of money"idk it could be my autism but i dont understand why people would screw their interests and life over for fucking money
>>100189896>t. got in for the moneykys live so we can enjoyim becoming toxic like everybody else i should kill myself too
>>100188183>wgu>high iqlol.>>100189931nobody is stopping you from enjoying your passion. in fact there are many projects you can contribute your time to for free. have at it
>>100190004>nobody is stopping you from enjoying your passionyou're right, it's wise to do something about thisi need to find a way to just do what i like without polluting my mind with others opinions that mean nothing of valueprobably get rid of the means by which i am fed this toxicity
>>100190141unironically that is a good mindset. just dont be yet another sourpuss fag that some people want to earn a living. i like programming and i did it before i got a job and degree. wouldnt do it if it didnt pay well though.
>>100187438>let's get Word openThis sentence has never been uttered in a CS class.
>>100190166i really have to try my best, because this is also making me dislikable irl>i like programming and i did it before i got a job and degreekek i guess this proves i shouldn't have insulted you, who would've guessed being toxic brings no good? it's almost as if i was part of the problem
>>100189597Can you only enjoy learning something if no one else chooses to do the same thing as you?
>>100175289construction is corrupt asf everywhere in the worldit is also bloated to fuck, and the contracts are fucked
>>100189597Lmao, when I graduated Business was the degree for people who didn't know what they wanted to do in their lives.
>>100175289They don't pay, and they don't have jobs.
It's the same thing in the pharmaceutical industry, jobs are insanely hard to get right now. You would think healthcare, especially drugs, would be full of opportunities, but investors aren't investing at the moment. I'm just going back into academia in either a staff or postdoc position and weather the storm. It's even worse for us because we all have advanced degrees and are older.
>>100190385...fuck, i think sowhat the fuck do i do
>>100190417Historically, organized crime has been deeply entangled in the construction industry, and this is still true in most corners of the world today. Your boss will grind you into a thin oily paste while skirting every possible safety regulation that exists. Then, when you inevitably get injured or your body finally gives out and you can no longer be productive, he'll just call up his "business partners" to fold you into an oil drum and embed it into a concrete pillar, and just hire a Mexican to take your place.
>>100190529sauce
>>100190445was this before cs? if not, what happened after?>>100190524>because we all have advanced degreesideally wouldn't you be able to get a job with less advanced requirements? like getting one that only requires a bachelors or a masterim an undergrad so idk anything about this
>>100190566relifethat's chizuru's way of smiling so she's totally fucking autistic
>>100190524Pharmacy was at one point the target of one of the greatest "worker shortage" propaganda blitzes ever in the early to mid 2000's. New outlets were running op eds on-stop about how there weren't enough pharmacists and that it was going to kill your nana if we didn't funnel hundreds of thousands of new students through PharmD programs. Now the market is completely and thoroughly saturated, especially at retail pharmacies. The result is that today you'll be lucky to crack a 6-figure income after graduating with essentially a medical degree unless you get lucky end up somewhere remarkably prestigious.Also, biotech in general is notoriously boom or bust. After product development it's not uncommon to just lay off the entire research team that developed because you don't need them anymore.t. regards worked in pharmacy and biology for 6 years.
>>100190582>was this before cs?2018It seems like CS has become the major for people that don't know what they want to do, but want a job (and tbf, it was basically the only field with the openings to place most undergrads in the jobs they studied for from 2009-2022 ish)
>>100175215CS is your best bet for actually paying back student loans. Even though everything useful has already been written and now all these companies do is sift through the giant pile of noise that human communication and activity has become and dredging up stuff to the surface, while trying to bury competing messages.
>>100190582>ideally wouldn't you be able to get a job with less advanced requirements? like getting one that only requires a bachelors or a master>im an undergrad so idk anything about thisYou can get a job with a Bachelor's degree, but you will eventually hit a ceiling in R&D. But overall a BSc will allow you to start working sooner and make more overall, but you'll have to start at the bottom and work your way up.>>100190645>Also, biotech in general is notoriously boom or bust. After product development it's not uncommon to just lay off the entire research team that developed because you don't need them anymore.Yup, this is exactly where we're at right now. I graduated with my PhD a few months ago and now I'm dealing with this. Talk about bad timing. What are you doing now?
>>100190706>you'll have to start at the bottom and work your way upi may have not understood you correctly, but if i did, i was talking about yourselflike getting a job a bachelors would get even though you have a phd
>>100190706>What are you doing now?I pivoted to Data Analytics and I'm hoping to work my way into Data Engineering eventually. I'm in a similar position though; the market is dog shit, and it's hard to find advancement opportunities, so I'm just hunkering down, skill building, and networking while I wait for things to blow over.Having a science or research background is surprisingly valuable to most business because the assumption is that you have hands-on experience gathering and working with opaque and complex data sets. Also, you're very likely to have a fairly strong practical background in math and statistics, even if it's something fluffy like Sociology or Psychology. The trick is how to pitch this experience in the context of their own business needs.I'm pulling for you, Anon. Best of luck.
>>100175215I chose CS because something medical related would require lots of studying and I hate everything else. I cannot force myself to study, and CS seems like an easy degree because I did some programming since middle school.After seeing how bad the interview process for most places truly is, and now the recession, im kinda sad and grew to hate it. I only have a few classes left so Im just finishing it to have a piece of paper.It was 95% free at least...
>>100190776Oh I see what you're saying, but unfortunately, no, that's not an option. A company won't hire a PhD to do Bachelor's level work, because they: 1) have a ton of other applicants who are also applying to the position, and 2) they know you're going to leave ASAP once you get another position (and they're right kek).>>100190837Awesome, happy to see you were able to successfully pivot. I'm looking to do the same and this gives me hope. Best of luck to you as well anon.
It's not delusion, because of all the big tech companies and every on Fortune 500 spawning a fuckton of useless shit that needs to be managed, creating a cascading effect on the amount of jobs that needs to be created and maintained, which is a good thing, but also a bad thing because most of the CS undergrads will work for a few years doing some stupid shit that's basically just 2-3 extra steps of bureaucratic/administrative work.Companies realized that outsourcing to India isn't feasible because they're Indians and 95% of the time they just don't give a fuck about your company and they can't communicate properly, so on top of having liability issues your production slows down. At least with someone in the US, the retard you hired can speak English at least and would give some shit. Imagine this for every other small & medium businesses. Also, CS degree is just an entrypoint - it covers all of IT and software development. If you're a failure at software development, working an IT job is better than any alternative in the blue or white collar areas. If you fail biology, physics, or math, you either become a teacher/tutor or you bust your ass through the PhD route and hope you do well enough for someone to hire you. Or you get lucky and network your ass up. In IT you just get certifications, pass the retardation test, bear with the roasties and normies (as usual), and you're set for life. It's boring but it pays the bills.
>>100175215>Why are so many people still getting CS degrees when the tech industry is pretty much deadWhy the fuck would a student know firsthand what the industry looks like if they haven't participated in it at all, you fucking retard?Did you know what the industry was like in your second year?What a dumb fucking question
>>100175289based boomer
>covid ruined uni social life>cs degree values plummeting>housing is fucking shitlol i should kill myself
>>100190952>they know you're going to leave ASAPfuuuuck i see, that's so baddoes this mean im going to make things harder for myself if i do masters (doubt phd but who knows) even though i would be fine with a bachelors level job?unless you get more enjoyable jobs when they're higher level, but as of now i wasn't planning to care about that
>>100191096At least emigrate or take a politician/banker with you. Don’t waste it.
CS is fine, degrees are worthless though so you have to do projects and prove you're not a mouthbreathing retard through other avenues these days. I expect to see filter classes come back in a big way in the near future as they should because most of my classmates graduated while struggling with for loops.
>>100191274I didn't get a CS degree, but I can hardly believe this shit. Are students these days really this retarded? Back when I was starting out I was able to figure out for loops in Python in like an afternoon with almost no experience, and even looking back I would've said that's slow.
>>100191455You have no idea how despair I felt when I saw these same students in the next class next year.
>>100191194It depends on your field, but in biotech/pharma a MSc is said to be worthless for the most part. At least with a Bachelor's degree you can work and gain experience, which is incredibly valuable, and with a PhD you have shown competency in pacing yourself and project management. On top of that, a PhD program in STEM should be fully funded so there's no debt unlike a Master's program that are usually not funded. You should look at job postings on LinkedIn for your field and see what they're asking for. I've heard that companies will pay for employees to go to school, so if you were to go in the workforce with a BSc, then that option will hopefully be available and you'll earn a MSc without paying a dime. If you're still in school then I want to stress the importance of going to job fairs and going to conferences. This is where you'll meet many useful people and you'll get a foot in the door instead of competing with a bunch of randos from India and whoever else applying online.To summarize, experience is the most valuable thing you can have. Internships, co-opts, etc. are all great and take advantage of these while you can. Degrees are fine but they do not replace experience.
>>100191455He saw one woman struggling with it on linkedin and now he's made up a story about how everyone is like her and how he's special for knowing a basic programming concept.If people struggled with for loops then it'd be over for them in the 2nd week, let alone all the way up to graduation.
>>100190365you’re going to go far with your mindset, anon. Good luck :)
>Computers are involved in every aspect of every day living>People want to learn about them>Also CS is known for being a high paying field (LOL)>People decide to get a degree in itIt's not really that hard to figure out.
>>100175215Not hopeless at all. To really create unique AI replacement systems, the the assigned copilot should learn from the user and attempt to replicate their uniqueness. That means many months of future employment.
>>100189724You're retarded and you just aired it for all to see.>>100189659SAT caps at 115 now>>100190985You're retarded. If you don't know the job market you're going into after completing your degree, you shouldn't have enrolled.>>100191455Yes they are.>>100191703literal retard>>100191274This. The market is ripe for competent workers. Heck if you're competent you can do something on your own.>>100191792kek
>>100175215>have an almost zero percent chance of ever getting a job nowIt's kinda the opposite for me, I don't have any trouble getting any tech related jobs, but all I get is bread crumbs as payout (yes, I'm a third worlder) since I don't have any CS degrees, and interviewers only have my word on experience and portfolio. I'm starting to reconsider this field and just flip burgers for a living since the pay is almost the same.
Going back to school for CS was a mistake. I’m worse off financially, mentally than when I started. Doesn’t help that I’m 38 as well. Fuck life.
i want to go back to better days when computers were still fun
>>100192734can someone go back and redo the universe capping Moore's Law at its 2005 levels? kthx.
>>100187402Good explanation of current situation. The unsustainable demand for useless webdevs has plummeted, and we are back to where the field normally is. Like any field, there are still jobs. Those jobs simply get filled by people with actual skills, talent, and interest. For new grads this is grim, especially with so many people from low trust cultures who have no issues lying on resumes.My personal experience is that since 2016, the majority of people doing software engineering and computer science are chasing money and have no interest or passion. They assume salaries are good, and jump through whatever hoops the degree requires without thinking further. Without an influx of money to effectively subsidize them, these people offer no real value to a business.Embedded development is still easy to find a job, and easy to keep a job. None of the computer science drones have any idea how to do it. I know the same is true for other areas like hardware design and FPGA design.Most of the new graduates are so fucking useless.
>>100193480>Those jobs simply get filled by people with actual skills, talent, and interest. For new grads this is grimYeah, they get filled by people who ALREADY HAVE EXPERIENCE IN THAT SPECIFIC TECH STACK, and a Bachelor’s in CS isn’t even enough anymore. Not like college actually prepares you for the real world anyway. How can it when companies only want people who have experience?
>>100175215Don't care. I'm still going to finish my CS degree and compete with you for remote positions.
>>100185589sorry bud, your state has a poor requirement for CS then. in my state all universities are mandated to teach calculus 1, 2, and 3 for a CS degree.
>>100183798>>100185878>>100189919>doing a job for the money is wrongWhat a childish position to take. If you think life is meant to be about other people paying you money to pursue your passions and hobbies then you're a naive nu male soi bitch who never grew up. Nobody gets into roadwork because it was their interest and passion. They do it because they need to make a living, pay bills and put bread on the table for their family. Roadwork needs to be done and it pays.Software development needs to be done and it pays too. Dev jobs don't exist so soi boy manchildren can follow their life long passion of sitting in a stuffy room at a computer, adding fonts and color schemes to their terminals and debating camelCase vs snake_case with their nerd friends. Dev jobs exist to generate money for the company and the shareholders.
Getting even a first job or internship really isn't that bad even compared to other fields. Especially with how you can actually prove some ability in this field by just sitting down and doing it for free in your room. Just comp sci people are more terminally online and whiny.If you're really worried about the job market, convince trump/Biden to lower corporate taxes again or to reverse Trump's whole thing where R&D can't be written off.
>>100193480>especially with so many people from low trust cultures who have no issues lying on resumesnever hire a pajeet, or at least not unless you've watched them code up a competent fizzbuzz in front of you without any internet accesssure it's easy for any actual programmer, but it filters out the no-hoper oxygen thieves
>>100193687>Not like college actually prepares you for the real world anyway.It never did. Real world changes what it wants too often for colleges to keep up, so they teach fundamentals and how to learn. Details of particular things need to be learned later.Grad school teaches more, but is more specialist; you're diving deep, not going shallow. Maybe you'll find a job that uses that stuff if you go that way, as the top end of that can have a job designed just for them.
>>100189919>people would screw their interests and life over for fucking moneyIronically putting your interests as your money maker is where fun goes to die.
>>100194675>What a childish position to takei guess you're right, as focusing on learning because you care and not to think of getting a job for you life later on is indeed considered childish by our society
>>100175215Make CS Math Again
>>100178529>how to make it work for youplease enlighten us
>>100195327there's plenty of time for fun after you retire with 10-15 years of working instead of the 50-60 that most americans have to put in.
>>100187263Shitt. 5 years of (mediocre) experience
>>100178529> make six figures finally> go to buy house not in california> houses near cities are half a million $> houses in bum fuck nowhere do not have broadband infrastructure for remote work> ???
>>100178499it isn't, math is much harder than CS, CS was created exactly because people wanted to get into computers with the least amount of math possible, the founders of CS were mathematicians, but CS people are not.
>>100185094aka jewish larping as germanic
>>100178529>Once you get past midwit levels of thinkingIroning.
how come theres nothing similar to apprenticeships for STEMwhy are all the associates worthless and why do you have to bloat your resume so hard
>>100197789>why are all the associates worthlesstoo many credits and courses unrelated to your actual major. associates are for clearing out the general curriculum crap for cheap before moving to a 4 year.
>>100196012You are so full of shit. "I'm an enlightened learner who pursues education for its own merit", yeah right loser, shut the fuck up. If you were truly a seeker of wisdom, you would have already learned the folly of being a self-aggrandizing ass.
>>100175257how is this relevant to the discussion?
>>100175289>help out our housing crisis insteadHow stupid do you have to be to think urban planning will magically cease the existence of landlords and oligarchs?
>>100175289>urban planning, civil engineering and constructionbeing CS dropouts and likely attracted to consumer tech and popsci, they will most certainly gravitate towards Modernism in the domain of architecture and urban planning. We definitely don't need more soulless suburban sprawl centered around the automobile. These are not good communities to live in and none of the freeways work any more because all of the wage slaves congest it with their daily three hour commute to the cubical farm.
>>100198127none of what you said is even remotely true>pursues education for its own meritno way in hell, education fucking sucks, exams are just tests to see how aligned to expectations and non-creative you areif i wanted to learn because i like learning i would learn things by myself by taking time to read booksgoing to uni just makes things easier to learn, and right now i care about getting a good enough overview of the topics that exist, and the degree itself is just "proof of work", it's to be preemptive>folly of being a self-aggrandizing assif i wanted to look smart to others i would just pretend and not make all this effort for it, just keep redoing the exams until i get full score on each one and then blab about it like everybody elsei wasn't lucky enough to be so smart as to be able to learn quickly, so this wouldn't be the path of least resistance i would take to be an asshole
>>100192666Literally my experience bro.... I got paid less then fucking blue collar worker.
>>100194905>If you're really worried about the job market, convince trump/Biden to lower corporate taxes again or to reverse Trump's whole thing where R&D can't be written off.Never going to happenThe United States is dead, bury it.
>>100194675>doing a job for the money is wrongThat's not the point.>needs to be done and it pays tooPractice what you preach and whore yourself out
> when the tech industry is pretty much dead and you have an almost zero percent chance of ever getting a job now?I just got a tech job a month ago, I don't even have a degree.But sure, enjoy going to live in the woods and learning to weld lmao
>>100175658>The junior positions are the hardest ones to findyou had 24 years to get a job
>>100175693And the fact that government builds the roads.Governments literally eminent domain private housing so they can add more lanes.If roads were privatized, this would be a non-issue.
>>100196162>houses in bum fuck nowhere do not have broadband infrastructure for remote workStarlink is $120 dollars a month, this isn't an issue anymore.
>>100187402based & true
My friend graduated last year and had to spend about a month applying but eventually got a job without even a technical interview
>>100197789there is in my country (european)Currently getting a degree and I spend two weeks at the company that hired me and two weeks at school. I earn a wage (minimum wage, but I'm paid whether I'm at work or in school)
>>100175215>zero chance of getting a jobshut down the information factory known as your assyou have to be really really shit to now get a tech job. The amount of sheet incompetence I see is hilarious, if you're semi capable can get really good jobsno other industry has such low barriers for cushy jobs
>>100189062the issue is with you,not the market. You have main character syndrome like a woman. You're neither as important or good as you think you are.
>>100201945how did you do this
>>100175289the kinds of people who fail cs don't have the rigor for civil engineering or constructioncs is not a difficult field compared to engineering
>>100175289I can't wait to build even more houses that will be owned by some rental company before they're even finished but will stay vacant until they turn to dust.
