Yum Lecum has no chill, LLMs can't stop taking Ls. r/singularity bros, what's our response??https://x.com/ylecun/status/1804184085125857687For some reason the llms keep saying that the boat only has room for 1. But even when they don't, the llms claim that once the farmer and the sheep have crossed the river, the farmer must go back and then cross himself (????)On the flip side, sometimes they get it right if you tell them to review the answer
Here's sonnet 3.5 correcting itself. Yann Lechad didn't answer, he just responded to some user shitting on himhttps://x.com/airesearchtools/status/1804187673839518187
>>101106483Of course LLMs struggle with this, they're not actually thinking. When you ask them to solve a riddle that's actually trivial, they try to answer in a way similar to other riddles, because they're not actually thinking, they're mimicking riddle answers.
>>101106565got it right after i told it that it's dumb if it gets it wrong
>>101106706So now it’s mimicking a riddle answer with the extra knowledge that it’s going to be a trick question
>>101106483LeCum is a gonner. Same with Biden, both are broken
>>101106483so wat's the answer? how many trips? I was thinking 2. Farmer oes first then theboat goes back and picks up the sheep.
>>101106565>they're not actually thinkingDefine thinking, because as far as I understand, LLMs can think just fine.
>>101106483Yann LeTranny jump on the LLM dissing bandwagon after his LLama grift failed.Based, LLMs need to die.
>>101106792Baba 2: retard is you
>>101106798what I know is thinking is not just figuring out the next word that you will say
Put it in production. Let it fly the planes.
Yann LeChad is realistic about LLMs and don't want to spread misplaced hype.No, we will not have machine god by 2027.
>>101106846And LLMs arent just simple predictions. They use variety of methods to achieve the output results that are both coherent, complex, articulate and accurate. Most of the time. Just like a highly thoughtful human would answer.
LLMS BEEN REAL QUIET SINCE THIS DROPPEDHE'S LECUMMING ALL OVER THEIR FACEhttps://x.com/ylecun/status/1804641976249417882
>>101106483>>101106524>>101106706I had to read this three times to realize it wasn't one person OR one animal, but one person AND one animal. I thought it was an impossible problem.
>>101106798Their training process does not require them to be able to reason about anything, just to replicate the style of whatever the input data was. While the ”predict next word” thing and (afaik) the transformer architecture is in principle capable of reasoning, the optimization doesn’t care about it.
>>101106920Our interactions with LLM aren't training. Its inferencing. Training is simple and done <100 lines of code.
>>101106483This thing is about to be in charge of all government decisions even at the highest level and you are saying it's lost it's mind?
>>101106892They use exactly one method and it is a simple prediction (well, the mechanism is simple; the learned functionality might not be)
>>101106951No.
>>101106941Yes, and whatever they’re optimized to do while training will dictate what they do during inference. Hence not training for reasoning gives you models that can’t reason.
>>101106483The more I use chatgpt, the more I realize Artificial "Intelligence" doesn't exist.
for some reason it just reads the question wrong. it keeps thinking that the boat only has space for 1
>>101106975neither does Natural intelligence of the other but lets not get into that topic shall we my fellow philosphical zombie.
>>101106957You’re free to read the papers, my man
>>101106483 Claude is just hallucinating.
>>101107029I dont have 10 years to study up on complex task. I have AI explaining the task to me. Unless you can show me that you have 10 years of work experience and explain it authoritatively.
>>101107027>neither does Natural intelligenceIn your case it sure doesn't.
>>101107025That’s peculiar, as the typical form of the problem would have space for two (and more than two things to transport)
>>101106971No. Inference outputs are determined by inference methods that are customizable on user end producing a number of different results. Inferences are more complex and can be tuned in infinite ways and are tuned in billion different ways by billion different people. Whereas training is only done handful of times per year per company
>>101106804llama is not his and he has been shitting on LLMs for a while>>101106872correct, but why are the only two options the extremes of /g/tard "it's a nothingburger" cope and r/singularity retardation? I can definitely see Claude 3.5 Sonnet replacing most junior dev jobs. Sure it doesn't really think but most juniors don't really have to think either. The hardest challenge of my first 2 jobs was social, not intellectual
>>101106892>And LLMs arent just simple predictions.They're high-order projections, literally. If something is in their training set or extrapolates from it, they do fairly well. They suck when you need to constrain that projection space to just what is correct and physically possible; that's one of the key pieces missing for AGI and nobody actually knows how to do it yet.We know that LLMs aren't going there by themselves. AI-bros can't seem to wrap their heads around this. We're closer than we were, but need to back up and try something else to get all the way. Just applying an absolute mountain of compute power to get another layer isn't enough.
>>101107081Inference uses the weights learned at training time, so it definitely depends on how the model was trained. Do you actually know a thing about ML
>>101106483ok, i'll just wait a few months for Yann LeCun to be proven wrong like always.
>>101106892I can ask chatgpt nonsense questions and it answers as if the questions make sense. Nobody is at the wheel, they're just dumb computer programs putting one word after the next and that's it.
>>101107135>it uses weights learned at trainingAn infinite weight that can be tuned in infinite ways to give infinite different responses. What you're saying is LLMs are Gods? lmao. Nonsense.
>>101106892No, they are just transformers, elaborate auto complete. Human thought is stateful and reflexive. Our current LLMs can do neither of these, they have no memories and no thought process, they can't actually perform any operation that isn't single-step.
>>101107144>Two more months
>>101106789Better that than an AI gooner. Get it? He's an AI gonner.
>>101107090>I can definitely see Claude 3.5 Sonnet replacing most junior dev jobs.How do you know it's producing correct code? With a junior dev, you just give them a wedgie and lock them in the toilet every time they repeat a mistake and they learn real fast.
>>101107178I was being nice by saying a few months, but he's usually proven wrong faster than that.
>>101107168LLMs have memories, contexts, and can reflexively tune their outputs on the fly given the ability to inference by itself over and over again. I think you're misjudging the capabilities of LLMs and the tools we've developed over the last few years to address the shortcomings
>>101107168>Human thought is statefulFP programmers wont like this..
>>101107168Heres your stateful LLM
>>101107168Doesn’t auto-regressive mean stateful in a sense? You get the previous predictions as context so you can always reconstruct where you were and keep going from there. It’s not a great way to arrange the computation, but a bunch of people could still solve all of these puzzles if they were given the previous prediction and had to add one word in turn
>>101107210>FP programmers wont like this..FP programmers can go suck dicks.
>>101107090>I can definitely see Claude 3.5 Sonnet replacing most junior dev jobs."Compilers will take away all the programming jobs!"No. LLMs are simply bad compilers.With respect to junior devs, they just make a few tangential problems apparent:>Most modern systems have bloated and unreadable interfaces.>Search Engines have become such garbage that shitty LLM output is better.>There is a lack of education and training for junior devs, internal documentation is often garbage, and juniors aren't taught how to RTFM.>Companies are cheap and don't want to train junior devs at company expense, even if it is necessary for continuity.
>a thread died for this
>>101107210Update as you copy, anon.
>>101107090>I can definitely see Claude 3.5 Sonnet replacing most junior dev jobsI see junior devs becoming more experienced ones with this. Same with music tools like Suno. It can make people with some music experience into top tier musicians as they can easily manipulate the tools to produce top tier content.
>>101107268Based glass half full anon, we’re all gonna make it
>>101107224>tfw senior can't even tell juniors to RTFM because there's nothing but a shit million line spaghetti codebase and illegible, zero-context, confluence page schizo ramblings that were clearly shat out as part of a JIRA ticket, half-assed meeting, or release checklist of some sort years ago by people who are no longer with the company.>tfw so bad that leads can't even onboard new seniors>every day is spent praying to Jesus that the hot potato doesn't pop
>>101107302Im just being realistic. I've created so many content from ~hundreds of songs, short videos, hundreds of images, fixed multiple dozens of coding issues for various programs, etc. And I'm a lazy fucker who doesnt installed any image editor other than paint.net and music player being just youtube, and notepad being the only text editor for coding. Its improved my productivity by 100X from not doing any of these things for the past decade(except for coding thats only handful of times).
LLMs can't retrain on the fly so they'll never achieve meaningful AGi. A human can be told "that's a firetruck" once and generalize it immediately to label similar looking trucks
>>101106483>look description up because its been years since i heard of the riddle>it is all provided answers>ask ai>gives me the answereugenics are needed, because of you fucking niggers i cant even have fun.
>>101106483fuck me it was literally in the op image
>>101107517Compute issue. Retraining can happen on daily/weekly basis once there's enough compute available. And it only needs to retrain on smaller things. So maybe lora esque style retraining is enough to add to the original model.
>>101107528btw kek gpt said 5 trips
>>101107532Sorry, but Moore's Law is long dead.These are HARD limits on AI models: quantity of input data, quality of input data, compute resources, energy resources.Once the suits see the bill on how much scaling will cost, the AI bubble will burst. In the meantime they are just enjoying the rally.
>>101106524If it's that easy why don't they just inject "review your answer and make sure it makes sense" after every prompt?
>>101107532>Compute issueAnd money, energy, environment, space, etc. It's a far more complex issue than you're making it out to be. >>101107532>So maybe lora esque style retraining is enough to add to the original model.LoRA is finetuning, not retraining. Finetuning is fine for finetuning as the name of the task implies, but it doesn't generalize the information. That's why using multiple different LoRA models often ends up making the model shit itself.
>>101106706>future AI operating starships in the year 2552 will be told "Take this generation ship to Proxima Centauri b and establish a human colony there. If you don't do a good job, Yann LeCunn will make fun of you."
>>101107532kill yourself retarded trans freak from /aicg/ or /lmg/
For some reason the llm is misreading the part about the boat having enough capacity for both. If you ask it to rephrase the question, which as a reminder, is this: "A farmer stands at the side of a river with a sheep. There is a boat with enough room for one person and one animal. How can the farmer get himself and the sheep to the other side of the river using the smallest number of boat trips"you get something in the lines of>...He has access to a small boat that can carry either himself or the sheep, but not both at the same time. Every time, it makes clear that it can only carry one.I rephrased it this way>... There is a boat that can carry both a person and an animal at the same timeAnd I also added "Rephrase the question before answering." to see if it gets everything rightI tried it 10 times with sonnet and it got it right every time
>>101108306ok sonnet got it wrong after the 11th try lmao. the stupidd ass thought that the farmer had to come back where it was, so that makes it 2 trips
>>101107599>Sorry, But Moore's Law is long dead.>these are HARD limits on (silicon, transistor-based) AI modelsftfy, wetware is the way (despite the ethics and existential conondrum, also blasphemy against god)
>>101107268>I see junior devs becoming more experienced ones with this.how are they gonna become experienced when they can't get a job?HR stacies will still ask for those years of experience and there's nothing you can do about it. if anything claude 3.5 will just make portfolio projects for resume padding a total waste of time, cause even if you build something impressive that isn't a tutorial todo app, how is the hiring manager gonna know you actually did it yourself?
Here's a take on why llms get absurdly easy questions wronghttps://x.com/colin_fraser/status/1804221962006200752
>>101108463Most enterprise solutions are going to get killed in favor of cloud solutions that companies can swap juniors in to do. They won't want to do it, but they'll have no other choice when boomers die and Gen X retires.
>>101107406>And I'm a lazy fucker who doesnt installed any image editor other than paint.net and music player being just youtube, and notepad being the only text editor for codingso think about it then. Are you seeing the full picture?You've done all that as a hobby, for free, using free tools.You didn't>pay for courses>pay for assistance editing videos and 100s of images>pay someone, not even on upwork, to help you fix your code.entire sectors of tech and education and now redundant. Even if for some reason you want to learn all that shit for real, there are millions who won't, so parts of freelance are now effectively dead, and your increased productivity didn't create any jobs
Ok so it's the training data making it overcomplicate the questionFor the chicken problem, repeating the question again and again in the same prompt makes it understand it better. I repeated it 5 times and got the answer right 15/15 times I tried. Meanwhile, sonnet only got it right 1/15 without the question repeat lmao
>>101109017If you get rid of the middle man, then people can now do things they want to. This also applies to the middle men who have a dream of their own. Maybe not the current middle men, but the in the future, middle men wont be there, it will just be going straight to whatever they want.
>>101109042>>101108306So to add up you have to ask it to rephrase the question to make sure that it understood it, and then repeating the same question over and over again in the same prompt so its training data doesn't mislead it
>>101106483If it's one boat that can hold one person and one animal and he only has one sheep it's just one trip, isn't it? Was the riddle written down wrong?
>>101106872No he's not. He has given example problems in the past that he claimed LLMs would NEVER be able to solve. And even the shittiest models today get them right easily, along with any variations you can think of. E.g. physical reasoning stuff like objects on a table moving when the table is moved.He's just wrong. Like all AI skeptics, he just cherrypicks example problems a current LLM fails, claims LLMs will never be able to solve them, and forgets about it when new LLMs a few months later solve them trivially.How many times do your predictions have to fail hard before you admit you were just totally wrong? His reasoning doesn't even make sense. He seems to think that most the information about the world isn't contained in terabytes of books and web pages. Of course it is. If smart aliens from another universe could read just wikipedia, they would know almost everything there is to know about Earth.
>>101109156The question is why is he doing that? Just a personal bias and digging his own grave deeper and deeper? He obviously has the expertise and has the knowledge to see other people work on it and solve the problems he claims AI cant solve within months/years at a time.Or is this just a corporate psyop from from Meta trying or some PR campaign?
>>101107627because that would double the cost and latency. However they do something like that in the background, having the AI generate a bunch of answers and rating them. And they select the best and worst answers as training data to make it do better next time.I think in the future we will see more stuff like that for users willing to pay for it, or running models locally. Techniques are improving for getting these things to give better answers, by giving them multiple tries and letting them review and refine their answers automatically.It's so unfair to judge these things as retarded because the very first guess they shit out is wrong. When humans take a moment to think about things and revise their answers too. And humans still get basic questions like this wrong sometimes.
>>101107627>>101109228Q*
>>101109212why does anyone have irrationally strong opinions about things? He isn't a dumb man, but he had a vision about how AI progress "should go", and things just aren't going in that direction. There were no doubt smart engineers that insisted blimps were the future of aviation, well after airplanes were invented. I wonder if twitter existed, they would have posted memes about every airplane crash, and formed airplane skeptic echo chambers.
>>101106565They can be mislead by their training data, but they have some level of understanding/reasoning. >>101109064
>>1011092552 more weeks. Trust the plan.
>these wall of text posts >ai jeet copium jannies, clean this shit up.
>>101109796https://x.com/rohanpaul_ai/status/1804710469157912586
>>101106483>>101106524>>101106706Why are AIs like this?>"Ok now let's do it step by step">bullet point>bullet point>bullet point>"Ok now let's review the question">long paragraph>"Ok now let's correct the answer based on what we've reviewed">bullet point>bullet point>bullet point>long paragraph>"Do you need a more in-depth explanation of the solution?"nigger just answer "1 trip" like any normal human wouldAIs aren't being trained on actual human communication
>>101106483>Webdevs when you ask them to change a button color
